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- [00:00]
Jeff Blair
Foreign.
- [00:08]
Scott Bertram
Everybody and welcome into another edition of Political Beats, a presentation of National Review. Find us on X at Political Underscore Beats. We're also on Facebook as well. Join the conversations there, mainly over on X though, at Political Underscore Beats. Subscribe to that feed for new episodes through Apple Podcasts or where you get audio or go to nationalreview.com click on the Podcast tab, find our show and all the other fine NR podcasts there. Listen, leave reviews where possible, help others find the program and we invite you in this holiday season of giving to join us@patreon.com Politicalbeats support us there. Help the show stay ad free as it has been entry level for your support and some voting privileges from time to time. Mid level for early access to our programs and at a higher audio quality and our upper level best friends for early access the higher audio quality Monthly exclusive content episodes the Ask Us Anything this month, the Funeral for a Friend episode coming in January 2026 remastered episodes, playlists and more. All that through patreon.com politicalbeats now the part of the program where we thank some of our Patreon supporters specifically and individually. Thank you to Jeffrey Sherman, Radio Roscoe Shamblin, Mark Dowell, Robert Little, GK Joe Llewellyn, Steve Singheiser, former guest on the program, Steve Lewis, Daisuke Nakai, James Cantwell and Lucas Haig. Thank you for helping us supporting us here at Political Beats. You can join them at patreon.com politicalbeats My name is Scott Bertram. Find me on Xcott Bertram, my tag team partner standing by as always, Jeff Blair. Jeff, how are you?
- [02:01]
Jeff Blair
I'm doing great, Scott. I got my hair cut right, my jeans fit tight, and if you want to know the secret of what's going on, you can meet me in the bathroom in my favorite Brooklyn hipster bar. We're on a mission to save rock and roll today.
- [02:12]
Scott Bertram
Wow. This is. This is the podcast that's going to save Podcasting is my understanding. Jeff can be found on X at Esoteric cd. Our guest today returns for a third time on the program, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, the author of 13 novels Conservatives will love but probably haven't read, which is a perfect Christmas gift for your favorite person and you can find them on xjscalia. Chris Scalia returns after Cheap Trick after Spoon to cover our band today. Chris, how are you?
- [02:49]
Chris Scalia
I'm doing well, guys. Thanks a lot for having me on the show. I am really excited to discuss everyone's favorite Billy Squire Song.
- [02:59]
Scott Bertram
That'S Not True. In the Dark is my favorite Billy Squire song.
- [03:01]
Chris Scalia
Oh, right, right.
- [03:02]
Scott Bertram
Chris, take a minute here. Tell us about what you do over at the American Enterprise Institute and tell people about 13 novels conservatives will love.
- [03:11]
Chris Scalia
I am a Senior Fellow in AEI's Department of Social, Cultural and Constitutional Studies. I write about fiction, poetry, literature in general, the arts. I write the occasional movie review. Basically, I focus on arts and culture there, and it's a great job. I'm very happy to be there and it gave me time. They gave me the space to write the aforementioned 13 novels conservatives will love but probably haven't read. The premise of that book is if you talk to right of center people about their favorite works of fiction, they tend to talk about the same handful of books. And most of those books are indeed worth reading. But we kind of get stuck in a rut. And what I wanted to do with this book was introduce readers to a broader range of great fiction that explores conservative ideas sympathetically. I go from the 18th century to basically the modern times, the modern age, you might say, and focusing on British and American great works of fiction. Anybody will love these novels. They're great works of fiction in their own rights, but they're noteworthy in this case because they explore conservative themes like the dangers of utopian thinking, the existence of a universal human nature, and dangers of post colonial thinking, for example, things along those lines.
- [04:45]
Jeff Blair
Chris, I have to say, though, I confess I'm a touch disappointed because when Scott said that you were the author of 13 novels conservatives would love, I was like, wow, you've been really up to a lot of work since the last time you were on this show.
- [04:58]
Chris Scalia
It took me a few years, but I wrote all 13 novels. No, that is a problem I didn't anticipate when I titled that book, but there you go.
- [05:10]
Scott Bertram
And Chris is back today to talk about the Strokes, the band that was gonna save rock and roll in the early aughts. We'll check in on that progress. Chris, the floor returns to you. Tell us why you love the Strokes, how you got into them, and why anyone else should care about this music we're about to talk about today.
- [05:31]
Chris Scalia
I love the Strokes because their music is fun and it sounds good. Dar.
- [05:43]
Jeff Blair
Sa. I tried to take control. Oh, I don't see it that way. I don't see it that way.
- [06:32]
Chris Scalia
I jumped on the Strokes bandwagon right away as they There was a huge amount of media hype surrounding the Strokes with the release of their first EP in the winter. I think of 2001, early 2001.
- [06:51]
Jeff Blair
I remember it so well, like it was yesterday.
- [06:54]
Chris Scalia
And I'm generally skeptical of hype like that. But they just seemed like the kind of band I liked and I think it's important to recognize the context. Yes, it certainly overstatement. They were presented as the saviors of rock and obviously that didn't work out. They only staved off the inevitable decline of rock. But at that point rock was not a big deal. There were still very good rock bands making music, but they were not. They just weren't popular and they weren't getting a lot of attention. And charts and MTV were dominated by boy bands and. And Disney pop like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera. And then rock was dominated by rap rock. The less we say about that, the better. So here were guys with guitars who were writing and writing rock that sounded good and wasn't just loud, but seemed actually melodic and sounded like it took some talent. And the lyrics weren't stupid either. And they just. They looked cool. I admit it, I'm a sucker for a cool looking band. That's a big reason I like Oasis as much as I do. They just looked like a cool rock stars. Yeah, they looked like rock stars. And they didn't shy away from playing the rock star card or playing that image up. Unlike, you know, a lot of grunge bands I know we all like, but, you know, they didn't like that image. The Strokes embraced it a little bit more. I will say when they were coming up the. I saw their competition. They were coming up around the same time as the White Stripes were releasing their second album, White Blood Cells. I think that's their second album. And the White Stripes were getting a ton of attention too, for similar reasons. And I always. I liked the White Stripes, but I always thought the Strokes were just more fun and better. I enjoyed the album more.
- [09:41]
Scott Bertram
It was more.
- [09:43]
Chris Scalia
That first album is this it released in the fall of 2001, was just a more consistent, more even a more fun album. So I kind of saw them in competition and I. But I. I preferred the Strokes. That was my band and I was living in Wisconsin at the time. Had the opportunity to see them once in Madison and then once in Milwaukee. I think the first time in two, I think 2002, then 2003. But I might be off by year in both cases. I just have a lot of good memories listening to them and enjoying them with friends and just appreciating that they. I'll talk about their sound, what I like about their sounds. Especially the first two albums. I had not heard bands like this. I now know that. Well, I had heard Lou Reed, and they sound. Julian Casablancas vocals sound like Lou Reed, but the guitar. The guitar work is what really leapt out for me. I hadn't heard guitars working like this before, and now I know that another band, Television from the late 70s stroke, said they never heard Television. Yeah, Television wasn't an influence, and maybe that's true. Initially they do acknowledge Lou Reed was an influence, but the guitars are just so interesting to me because they. It's almost like there's two lead guitars in every song. But, you know, that doesn't sound terribly original, but the. The type of guitar riff is distinctive too.
- [11:15]
Jeff Blair
And I. I know this is for real, but I try my love with you. Let's see, what is horses?
- [11:53]
Chris Scalia
The word you encounter often in reviews of the Strokes is angular riffs. And that's a good way to describe it because it kind of goes off in unpredictable directions, directions you don't usually hear in blues based rock. And so. And I liked the mixing too, because you had the guitars and the bass. All the instruments were in front of Casablancas's vocals, and that gave it kind of a garage rock sound. They're often called part of the garage rock movement. I don't think that's really an accurate description.
- [12:28]
Jeff Blair
It's Rolling Stones trick is what it is. Burying the vocals in the mix.
- [12:32]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point.
- [12:34]
Jeff Blair
It's Exile on Main street to me, is what it is.
- [12:37]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, you're right. But nobody's going to confuse. The big difference is that, I mean, Jagger has a lot more vocal range and Jagger's voice wasn't. It was. It was in the back. But Casablancas vocals are always distorted a little bit too, in those first couple of albums, like he's singing through a filter. So those were the initial reasons I was drawn to the band, and I've been loyal to them through their ups and downs. I mentioned Oasis earlier. They're a lot like Oasis in that they had two really good first albums, and then they, as you guys might agree, they stretched out a little too far in their third album, which is bloated and a little disappointing. And then they came back with a series of underrated albums, never quite achieving the heights of the first two, but producing much better music than people recognize.
- [13:45]
Jeff Blair
But I don't mind. Oh, that's not the problem. I don't get anyone with right now. Monday, Tuesday, my weekend. You take it for. Oh, I don't know why. Wow.
- [14:37]
Well, okay, here's the funny thing, Chris. At the end of the day, it turns out I might even have a better opinion of the Strokes than you do as the guest of our. On our show. And it's a very funny story for me because, like, you, and I'm sure, like, Scott, too, given especially that he was in the radio biz, he probably knows a lot of, like, you know, a lot about how this. This band had an impact in the charts. But I think it's actually kind of fascinating that the Strokes never had a big hit single, really. They had a lot of buzz and a lot of hype. But the greatest and most successful Stroke song of all time is actually Mr. Brightside by the Killers, which is a song that stole basically the entire Strokes aesthetic. And, hey, give him the credit. It perfected it. But when you get to the Strokes, like, I lived through this whole thing when the big new great white Hope, they were going to revive the fortunes of rock and roll. And I'll confess, at the time, I was hostile. I was hostile to the hype. I was a Washington D.C. kid at the time. I was still in college, obviously, and I was a committed Radiohead fan. So what does that mean? I'm into mopey art rock. I'm into, you know, my idea of extending my, you know, branching out from modern rock, from Radiohead, is going to Seager Ro people who sing in, like, imaginary languages. And it's, like, hopelessly dreamy and drifty. The immediacy of the Strokes. I understood exactly what it represented, but it wasn't in my wheelhouse at the time. I knew the first album. I bought it like everybody else, because you had to buy it. If you wanted to claim to know anything about music or anything about what was actually happening in your life musically, you needed to be up on what was going on with. Is this it? And then I actually also checked out Room On Fire, their second album. But these records, for me, sat on my shells in the way that I would. Actually, the analogy I draw is to the way Murmur by REM Once when I was in high school, I bought it because, like, everybody tells me I gotta own this album. I put it on once. I wasn't paying much attention. It wasn't in the right mood for it. And then I just let it sit there for years. That is basically what happened to me with the Strokes. It was only when, you know, 2006 or so, after all the hype has died down, the band is kind of like, no longer this big Engine of, like, you know, the great. Right, the great revival of rock music. They're just another working group. And then went back to this stuff and I realized, wait a second. This actually is, like, some of the best music that has been made in the 21st century. These first two albums, I was the one who was dismissing them. Maybe other people were overhyping them, but I think I didn't give them their due. And I think the reason I didn't give them their due is what I think probably has something to do with my first encounter with them. Somebody in a record shop, as I'm buying bootleg CDs, they throw this. This album on. It's not an album, it's a concert. Like, who is this band? Who's this guy? He sounds an awful lot like Lou Reed. And of course, who it was was the Strokes. And I'm pretty certain that the song that they were playing was the Modern Age, which was from their first ep. It's on their first album. And I was like, All I could hear were the debts that the Strokes owed to other artists. So I suppose when we discuss the band, we have to start by saying, who were their influences? What did the Strokes sound like? There's something so immediate and bracing about the way they employ chord changes. But of course, it all sounds like it's old. Old Wine and New Skins, right? I hear the. In them. I hear the Velvets, obviously, the Velvet Underground and Lou Reed Television, as Chris already mentioned. But I also hear the Minute Men with that sort of brush guitar work and Talking Heads, David Byrne and his rhythm guitar work. That's very Strokes, like, as I mentioned before, the Stones. And I think that that's a why that they were hailed as, like, the rebirth of rock and roll. Hey, these are guys who are playing like the old masters used to and could save it. And also why that they eventually became a little bit blocked because, you know, the dependencies they had on the old verities began to feel a bit too much like a crutch. That's the thing about the Strokes. The most recent album came out when it was at 2019. Still a pretty great album. You know, I have no idea whether they're going to still release the next album or if they've broken up, whether it's going to be a decade before they do. They've gone into the Radiohead release schedule at that point. I don't know. But while the Strokes never managed to, like, save the record industry, which was dying for reasons that were unrelated to them, boy, it was certainly one great last gasp. I mean, this is like. This is that last bit of rock energy in the 21st century before I think it all kind of winked out finally. And if anyone's going to carry the flag and be the avatar of that movement, it probably should be the Strokes.
- [19:55]
Sa.
- [20:29]
Scott Bertram
I missed the Strokes the first time through, missed listening to them. And Chris asked me why, Music Guy. And as Jeff says, college radio. And so I know I played a few things, but I'll tell you, what I was doing at that point was I was deep, deep into sort of alt country, Americana. I hosted a show that focused on that kind of music. So that is almost exclusively extensively, what I listen to. But my roommate and I got a lot of interesting things from my roommate. Interesting albums, interesting sounds. He knew about the Strokes early on, and he had a copy of the album that included New York City Cops. And I remember listening to that as the controversy swirled about that cut being on the first album. In the days and weeks after 911 and the other exposure I really had to them was they were a featured track on Rock Band. And so when my roommates and I would get together and play Rock Band.
- [21:25]
Jeff Blair
Which sucks, huh?
- [21:26]
Scott Bertram
Reptilia, right?
- [21:27]
Chris Scalia
Yeah. Yeah, Reptilia.
- [21:54]
Jeff Blair
He seemed impressed by the way you came in. Tell us a story. I know you're not boring. I was afraid that you would not.
- [22:09]
Scott Bertram
And we played that a lot. And so that was a Strokes. That was a Strokes introduction to me as well. But I was not following them on an album by album basis. I don't know. I'm certain I heard Is this It? The whole way through, once or twice or three times when it came out. Don't know that I heard all of Room On Fire after it was released. Certainly nothing past that I did not seek out. But they're always out there, and they always had that specter of being that great hope to save rock and roll. The promise they had after the EP, the bidding war and that debut LP that came out in late 2001. Could they make good on that promise? Were they the band that people thought they were going to be? That's something we can talk about. We've already got. Gotten into some of the influences, so I might as well say this. I listened for the first time in a while to, Is this it? Thinking about, okay, what. Where are these influences? And here's the thing about the Strokes, as Jeff sort of alluded to, you could pick about two or three dozen different bands and probably be right, because Strokes probably borrowed a melody from them. At some point during their career. And we're going to talk a lot about where these things pop up on various songs during the Strokes career. But I'll tell you, at first glance, first listen, that album, the first one I said it sounds like. Sounds like the Pixies and, like, the Jam together.
- [23:35]
Jeff Blair
So those are two bands that I didn't even mention in my list of, like, seven.
- [23:39]
Scott Bertram
Not even close. But I think I'm still Right. I think I still hear that stuff on the first record, and that would. That would morph and change quite a bit on the albums to come, too. So there's just an enormous number of influences and enormous amount of debts that pop up on various albums, various songs during the years. The one other thing I'll mention here, as we start is I had a problem the first time I went through these records, got to a point, and I literally wrote this down in my notes, which I spilled water on this time. That is not convenient.
- [24:08]
Jeff Blair
You actually write them by hand. That's funny.
- [24:10]
Scott Bertram
Hand notes, of course. Of course.
- [24:12]
Jeff Blair
Oh, I typed mine out. Yeah.
- [24:13]
Scott Bertram
I said, I'm not sure I can pick a Strokes song out of a lineup. What makes a stroke song, the Strokes? Is it like. I don't know, like, you know, what a spoon song, a spoon song sounds like. That's such a distinctive sound. Other bands, even, like, a Franz Ferdinand. I. I know, like, the vocal. I know the. But what makes. How can I pick a stroke song from other contemporaries who are doing similar things or stealing things from the Strokes? And I didn't get my answer until I sort of stumbled upon what Chris mentioned earlier. I think it's that guitar sound and interplay between those guys that. And then. And then. And then the vocals, too, but the vocals are less, you know, as you said, buried a bit in touch. I think it's that guitar interplay and preview a bit here. I think that's one of the reasons why the more recent albums struggle to impress the way that others do, because that is so downplayed to other kinds of sounds, other kinds of approaches. The band is taking.
- [25:23]
Jeff Blair
From your. Tell me, tell me what you understand. Show me, show me, show me. You asked me to stay? You asked me to stay? You asked me to stay. But there's a million reasons to live.
- [25:57]
Scott Bertram
But that was my solution. That was my answer.
- [25:59]
Jeff Blair
Okay, I got another answer, as it turns out.
- [26:01]
Scott Bertram
Okay.
- [26:02]
Jeff Blair
I mean, I've thought this through. I actually have a whole paragraph that I wrote about this. Like, what is it that makes the Strokes distinctive? I think one of them is aesthetic. They're dreamers. They have that. That what defines them is, as Chris mentioned, is that they were kind of rock stars. That attitude is one thing, but really, musically, what most defines the Strokes for me isn't just like the crispness of their song structure or that kind of simplicity, stick sonic aesthetic conceit, the dueling guitars. It's the songwriting and that comes through less than those lyrics. You know, the daring, abandoning youth. That'll always work for me. I remember my dumb teenage years too. But it's the music, it's the chord changes. They're fundamentally wistful. There is something aspirational about the way they handle those guitar interplays to, like, create rubs, which is an XTC term. It was what Andy Partridge referred to when you got like two guys playing chords that created a composite core that shouldn't really be allowed to exist in the real world. You can never play it with one person person, but it's with two people that you get that. That sort of rubbing up against one another. And that's where the wistfulness comes from. This sharp melodic breaks that they make in their songs. There's a quiet intelligence there. You know, there's. It's seemingly effortless, it's insouciant, It's CEO Ian Malcolm's style stuff. They're just rocking out genius, like, without really making it seem like they tried too hard. That's what made people think the band would save rock. It's like, listen to a song like Somalia. That's a perfect emblematic example. It just sort of staples three different hooks together in 2 minutes and 30 seconds and it just opens up to this big chorus to all of it in that brief amount of time. People wanted to hear that kind of music again and they got it and they, frankly, they stopped appreciating its value.
- [28:29]
Chris Scalia
I would also have to throw in the drummer. Fat and ready. I. I admit I also like this band because of some of the Italian. Well, two of the Italian names.
- [28:41]
Jeff Blair
Well, three. Casablancas. Is that an Italian? Spanish.
- [28:44]
Chris Scalia
I think it's Spanish, yeah, but it's close enough.
- [28:48]
Jeff Blair
European. Southern European. Right.
- [28:50]
Chris Scalia
In fact, most of the members were first generation Americans, which is, I think. I don't know how unusual it is.
- [28:55]
Jeff Blair
But I guess that means we should probably actually introduce the band. Who are the Strokes? It's a bunch of New Yorkers. And of course, they came from all over the world. A lot of international privilege here because Julian Casablancas and Albert Hammond first met in Swiss boarding school, I believe, in their teenage years. But. So he's the. Julian.
- [29:12]
Chris Scalia
This is important, Julie. They were both. I mean, so they were pretty well off. Julian's father was the founder of Elite Model Management.
- [29:19]
Jeff Blair
Management. And.
- [29:20]
Chris Scalia
And Albert's father was a songwriter. He wrote one of your favorites. I know.
- [29:25]
Jeff Blair
Albert Hammond Senior.
- [29:26]
Chris Scalia
Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now. And It Never Rains in Southern California was a song he wrote and performed. So there's. They definitely had some. Some privilege there.
- [29:37]
Jeff Blair
It came from a pedigree. Hey. But so much so did Genesis.
- [29:40]
Chris Scalia
Okay.
- [29:41]
Jeff Blair
A bunch of privileged kids in a boarding school. I mean, I don't mind. Right. And of course, those are, you know, let's get the members down. So it's lead singer Casablancas, and not only does Julian Casablanca sing lead, but he does, I'd say, the lion's share of the songwriting, particularly in those early days. And I think that really is. It reflects well upon those first two albums.
- [29:59]
Chris Scalia
He did. He did everything on the first two albums. I mean, he was almost a control freak. And that's one of the surprising things about the band is that they are such an ensemble unit. As Jeff, you mentioned in our.
- [30:09]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [30:10]
And we're going to hear all these songs. Right.
- [30:12]
Chris Scalia
And so, you know, my first impression of the band. Band was that they were. They were guys in the. They, you know, they were always in a room writing these songs together. But it was really Julian, he was writing all the guitar parts, too. So, yeah, he was really the driving force behind the. The songwriting until the third album, they started moving away from that.
- [30:35]
Jeff Blair
So you have the two guitarists, Nick Valencia and Albert Hammond Jr. And then you have the bassist, Nikolai Fracher, which is such a great last name. It seems like, you know, this guy probably with a name like that, he probably should have. And then Fab. Moretti. Fabrizio Moretti, which is the most Italian name on. On the planet.
- [30:50]
Scott Bertram
He actually sounds like. He actually sounds like half a Milli Vanilli is what it sounds like.
- [30:53]
Jeff Blair
But Rob and Fab at the same time, actually. Right.
- [30:57]
Scott Bertram
Oh, you're.
- [30:57]
Chris Scalia
You're. That's foreshadowing one of my. One of my references for one of their later songs. So I'm glad you were the first to mention Milli Vanilli.
- [31:07]
Jeff Blair
Right.
- [31:08]
Okay. So these guys get together. They're a really talented young band. They're gigging. Of course, they've got parents, frankly, who are willing to support them in their efforts, which is the same thing for Genesis. Mike Rutherford always said, like, hey, best thing that ever happened for me is my dad said this is okay. If you, if you don't go get a job, you could do rock music. And so they did it and they put together a demo that became pretty famous in the industry. Probably one of these last famous industry bidding wars.
- [31:44]
Go, go, go go go go go go go. Leaving just in time Stay there for a while Rolling in the ocean Trying to catch your eye Work hard and say it easy. You just took a clean scream Tomorrow is different and this is why I'm.
- [32:14]
Where they put together a demo on the cheap on spec and then they put it out and it was the, you know, the, the last time I can recall the Modern Age EP is what it's known as. It's three songs. And the last time I can recall like every major record label going to war to like sign the hot new band. And that was, I think the point at which I was first initially poisoned against them. I will, I will confess. I was like, okay, they can't be that good. I listened to that three song demo. This is back before YouTube is back before you had like the ability to access instantly. You can do it now. But I had to order a cdr. I had to get a friend to get a friend to get a burn a CDR for me. Same way I did the first Arcade Fire ep. But you know, ultimately it ended up panning out.
- [33:17]
And like the beginning, it all works somehow in the end. The things we did, the things you are, you and I.
- [33:41]
RCA label signed them and then they put out their first album. And is the this. It really actually is kind of like the last time I can remember a rock album upending the cosmos and becoming the thing that everybody and their brother when I was in college talked about. And I really don't have anything to add about the question. It's not, it's not underrated, it's not overrated. It's rated exactly as it should be. It's one of the great debut albums of all time.
- [34:06]
Chris Scalia
It is a great album and. But it's a ballsy album too because the title, title is this it without the question mark. But it is obviously a question. And after all the hype surrounding the album and the bidding war for it. Is this it? Is this all we're getting?
- [34:25]
Jeff Blair
Can't you see I'm trying? I don't even like it. I just love to get to your apartment now. Now I'm staying edges for a while. I can't think cause I'm just way too tired. Is this it? Is this it? Is this it's?
- [35:05]
Chris Scalia
If that's your Title you better actually be a really good album. By the way, just going back to the bidding war, there's a great book about the turn of the millennium New York rock scene called Meet Me in the Bathroom.
- [35:18]
Jeff Blair
Oh, I was going to mention this.
- [35:19]
Chris Scalia
Later on by Lizzie Goodman. It's basically an oral history. And somebody mentions there a record executive from MCA said that he was trying to get his company to sign sign the Strokes. But the executive said, but they don't sound like anything on the radio right now, not realizing maybe that was the point. So a few months later they wanted the Strokes, but it was too late and RCA got them. The opening track is Is this it? And really going back to that joke I was making before. When you listen to the beginning of that song, you will not be impressed. And you will say, is this it? Yes, kind of.
- [36:01]
Jeff Blair
I have this note too, right. It's the slowest song on the record.
- [36:04]
Chris Scalia
It's slow, it's unimpressive until maybe 30 seconds in. I mean, Julian's vocals are always kind of detached, but here they're really lethargic and he sounds bored. Until maybe about a half minute in, Frature's bass kicks in. It's just an awesome bass line.
- [36:29]
Jeff Blair
Can't you see I'm trying? I don't even like it. I just love to get to your apartment now. I'm staying there just for a while. I can drink. Cause I'm just way too tired.
- [36:52]
Scott Bertram
This is another big faint though, right? Because the bass is not exactly prominent in the rest of the album or the rest of their songs. This wonderfully kind of tricky, prominent, sinewy bass line of this first track. And that's it.
- [37:03]
Chris Scalia
That's all you get.
- [37:04]
Jeff Blair
A thing.
- [37:04]
Scott Bertram
That's all you get.
- [37:05]
Jeff Blair
It's the feature of the track. Right.
- [37:07]
Chris Scalia
And that bass line drives the song. I wouldn't say it rescues the song because the second guitar comes in later as well. And it is really a wonderful opening track. Like every song on this album, it's pretty short. It's only 2 minutes and 30 seconds. The entire play time for the album is 36 minutes. So we're not talking the, you know, the depths of cd.
- [37:33]
Jeff Blair
Well, no, it's actually a reaction against that.
- [37:35]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, exactly.
- [37:36]
Jeff Blair
One of the things.
- [37:36]
Chris Scalia
And this is what's about them, right?
- [37:38]
Jeff Blair
Their next album actually will be the quote, most self indulgent one. Room on Fire is a whole 50 minutes long, but even that's tolerable.
- [37:44]
Chris Scalia
No, room. Room on Fire is 30. It's first impressions of Earth.
- [37:49]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, right. That's the one that drifts too much. But I'm just saying, like, these guys understood the value of an album as an album. As like, okay, we have attention for maybe 30 hours, 30 minutes or so. And by the way, speaking of which, talk about the first comparison that came to mind for me, it was Spoon. This reminds me of Everything Hits At Once, which is sort of slow, purposeful track that begins Girls can tell, also from 2001. And this is why I mentioned this to you before the show. I was like, I think of Spoon and Strokes is actually, they're not indebted to one another because they are obviously competing at the same time, but they were both drawing upon the same well, to get different effects, different outcomes. And that discipline, the willingness to start with that slow, loping melody before they get into the action. Maybe, maybe even to throw you off the scent just a little bit, because the rest of this album is really just a whirlwind action.
- [38:41]
Chris Scalia
Yeah. And it goes, it goes from that track into the Modern Age, which, which was the single that got them all that attention. And this is this, this wasn't feels.
- [38:50]
Jeff Blair
Like the weakest song on the record compared to the rest of these.
- [38:52]
Chris Scalia
Oh, really? I, I, I love this. It's one of my chords on the album, but it, it's got really tight guitars. Julian's. Julian's vocals are no longer lethargic. I love, I love quoting several Strokes lines at random times, but one of them is Let me go go, go, go, go, go, go. Which is actually how I should have started this podcast, the chugging car line. And it's, it has a lyric that is the key to understanding early Strokes. Work hard and say it's easy. They had this slacker aesthetic, kind of like Pavement.
- [39:30]
Jeff Blair
Pavement. I was about to say, I have Pavement in my notes here.
- [39:33]
Chris Scalia
Yes, they had a slacker aesthetic, but they worked their butts off, and that's why they were such a tight band on these opening albums. They. Julian, as I mentioned before, he was maybe Kontrol Freak is unfair, but he had them working hard in the studios. Even their producer was a little exhausted by it. And it shows in their live acts, and it shows on this album.
- [40:05]
Jeff Blair
She wrote it in a letter I got your concrete I did notice this in the night I'm somewhere in between I said every night she just kept on saying.
- [40:40]
Scott Bertram
I would say Jeff's right. It's not underrated. It's not, it's not overrated. It's just, it just rated. This, this is a great rock album. And I You know, would it save rock and roll? Is it different than. It was? Different than what? A lot of stuff you were hearing at this time, You. You come out of the grunge movement and then post grunge, and then around this time, you. The rock bands are like. You guys remember a band called Creeper Lagoon? They were like, as a name, because.
- [41:05]
Jeff Blair
Yes, the name is unforgettable.
- [41:07]
Scott Bertram
The next you. They were supposed to be the next YouTube. All these, like, very shimmers, Very, very highly produced, you know, rock, no edges.
- [41:16]
Jeff Blair
That was gonna be, to me, the quintessential next big band was Muse, which I just still don't get Muse.
- [41:21]
Chris Scalia
And, I mean, Cold. Coldplay was in there too. They were. They were filling in for Radiohead while the computers got there.
- [41:27]
Jeff Blair
Well, Radiohead were basically on strike from rock and roll, right?
- [41:30]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, but. And then this is not that. This is not that. This is very different. And it's immediate and it's striking and it's confident, and they don't feel like they have to trick you to get you to like them. They. They. As Chris said, everything's three, three and a half minutes, tops.
- [41:48]
Chris Scalia
And.
- [41:48]
Scott Bertram
And then they deliver. They deliver. You know, Soma. Jeff mentioned Soma earlier. That's the first one. We're going back. I began to pay attention to those guitars. And Soma, you have as. As Chris said, you know, it's not necessarily a lead in a rhythm. It's just two guitars doing two very different things. And again, I'm always a headphone guy, one in each channel. And they're not weaving together necessarily. They're not playing Keith and Ron Wood or Keith and Mick Taylor style. They're not playing, like, Phil Collins, Steve Clark style, where everything's very, very interlocked and carefully planned. And this is how it's gonna. They're just. They're coexisting and giving you two, almost two different styles, two different ways to appreciate the. The song. And so much where I hear that first. But of course, that. That will permeate a lot of songs in the early going some days. A really nice, beautiful song. And this is one where you guys mentioned the vocals. The vocals are like the third or fourth most important thing. Here you have the guitar, the other guitar, that drum shuffle that really drives that song. And then casablancas is like 4th or 5th most important.
- [42:55]
Jeff Blair
I think the funny thing about Someday is that Casablancas no longer sounds like Lou Reed. Now he sounds like Iggy Pop. That song could have come off a lust for life.
- [43:03]
Scott Bertram
I got a pop Somewhere. Yeah, yeah.
- [43:05]
Chris Scalia
I love. And Someday. Someday is a place where the bass comes back in, too. There's a really good bass. Bass part to the solo. And it is such a bouncy song, too. I always. It's like they're walking on sunshine. And also, I know that Julian's vocals are not the most important part of the song, but I do love the line, you say you want to stay by my side Darling, your head's not. Not right. Which is just a great rock lyric.
- [43:59]
Jeff Blair
I will do my best. You say you wanna stay by my side Darling, your head's not right I still. Always Time together we fall apart yeah, I think I'll be all right I'm working so I won't have to try so I. The.
- [44:40]
Chris Scalia
The guitar interplay of this song is tricky because I'm never certain who's playing which guitar.
- [44:48]
Scott Bertram
Right, Right.
- [44:50]
Chris Scalia
Because Nick is. Everybody says Nick's the more talented guitar guitarist, and so it's easy to assume then that he's doing all the great guitar parts. But in Someday anyway, Albert's playing the main guitar part and Nick is on the more rhythm end of things. But even then, it's not just a standard strumming. It's a pretty complicated rhythm part, from what I can tell, so. But, yeah, this is definitely one of my favorites on the album, I think.
- [45:20]
Jeff Blair
There's another thing about the Strokes on this record that's worth noting. One of their secret weapons, one of their hidden appeals, is they have a retro sound in a lot of ways. If you listen to those melodies, like Last Night, that song is such a good song. That was on.
- [45:33]
Chris Scalia
I can't believe you guys haven't mentioned American Girl by the. Okay, that's okay.
- [45:38]
Jeff Blair
It's right in my notes.
- [45:39]
Chris Scalia
Okay.
- [45:39]
Jeff Blair
Last Night here in my notes. It's impossible not to hear that as an updating of the late 70s, early 80s. The intro sounds like Petty's American Girl, and then it swings into Billy Joel's Tell Her About It. Basically, it's. Except, of course, you know, thematically, it's updated stylistically to, like, the lofts and bars of Brooklyn. But what makes it special is that it starts like that. You hear all those little, like, cat tips or references, and then it mutates from there into something a lot more searching. The chorus of that song alone illustrates the band's entire appeal perfectly.
- [46:18]
She said oh, baby, I feel so down I wanna turn my own When I feel left out so I, I turn around oh, baby, I don't care no more I know this for sure I'm walking out that door But I've been in town for just now 50 oh, minutes now baby I feel so down and I don't know why I keep walking for See, people, they don't understand no girlfriends, they can understand your grandsons, they won't understand on top of this Ain't ever gonna understand.
- [47:11]
So there was something that Chris said that I really paid attention to. He said, you know, the escape aesthetic of. Of Strokes was to work hard but look like you're not really trying. And the band, this is. I don't know if it's one that either you, Scott, or you, Chris, are familiar with. The band's career arc that this most reminds me of is Wire. Wire is a group that I've been talking about non stop on political beats for eight years now. Their first trilogy and again three albums, right, were I think, actually way more groundbreaking because. Just simply because of the fact that they came in the late 70s is in that. That period. But each of them showed like a very quick and brusque evolution. The third album showed them maybe falling apart. But that first album, first album was sort of art rock that disguised itself. People called Wire Punk Floyd at the time because the music sounded like punk. But everybody understood that they were working on a different level. This album is sequenced so carefully and, you know, right from the beginning from Is this It? Which, as we pointed out, is a very provocative way almost to open the record record from that all the way to the end. Everything on this record is meant to build upon itself. It is an album that really doesn't deserve to be heard as individual songs, but as an album gets to Scott's point where he said, like, hey, can you actually name like one famous Wire single? And of course, my joke is that the most famous Wire single Stroke single. And my joke is that the most famous Stroke single of all time is Mr. Brightside. It's the one where they actually, like, found a way to make it even poppier than what these guys were doing doing. But it is so consistent that the whole album speaks for itself there. It's funny. Which version of this record did you guys get when you were younger? I got the. The quote, American version, which didn't have the Cop song. You know, cop. What was New York City Cops. They're not so Smart. It's a fun track, but actually think it's one of the weaker ones on the record.
- [49:04]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, I think the. The one that replaced it when it started is. Is the better song. And yeah, I think when It Started.
- [49:10]
Jeff Blair
Is literally, I would argue, maybe the greatest stroke song of all time. And you wouldn't know that it doesn't. It's not a big pop hook. But I'm saying the chorus on that song is the one that struck me even back then, like 25 years ago or thereabouts. And just going back to it recently, I'm floored by the way that thing evolves into something that, again, plucks at an emotion that can't be really put into words. There's something aspirational and yearning about them. The chord changes, the melody, the place that song goes from. It's kind of rather bright and boppy verse.
- [49:43]
Yeah.
- [49:43]
And then it goes into that. That's very wistful and sad chorus. That is the Strokes. It's what they brought to the table in one so.
- [50:12]
I could have.
- [50:54]
Chris Scalia
And then it's another great example of the guitar interplay, too. These kind of talking back and forth with simple.
- [51:01]
Jeff Blair
Second time through. The second time through the chorus you like. They. They. They play it a little differently. The. The guitars begin to, like, duet with one another harmonically instead of tracking on the same line. And it's like an inexplicably moving moment. And this is what the Strokes could do back at that time. We haven't even like. The second half of this album is just as good as the first half of this album. There were really, in my opinion, no weak moments on it, which, of course, makes it very difficult thing to follow up before.
- [51:27]
Chris Scalia
Yeah. Before we move on, can we talk about Hard to Explain is my favorite song on the album, let's Do It. And this goes back to why I mentioned Fab a few minutes ago. His drums are so distinctive because they often sound electronic, including the beginning of this song. Long ago, I heard an interview with them where they said when we played it for some of our friends, they thought I was playing electric drums, but I wasn't. These are actually me, a human being, playing drums here. But that's just his style. It's so tight and precise. And, I mean, he's. I don't know, the opposite of Keith Moon.
- [52:08]
Scott Bertram
You have to. You have to work hard for it. You have to work hard to get drums to sound that. That close to being mechanical when they're not actually mechanical.
- [52:16]
Jeff Blair
I'm surprised you don't see the commonality with Spoon, by the way, Chris, because I think of Jimino. I think of the way he plays drums with such precision, like it's not sloppy. There's no wasted beats. There's it's just whatever serves the song and. And with minimalism, basically, as the governing aspect. Aesthetic.
- [52:33]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, I don't. They are similar bands and. And as you know, I love them both, but I always had them in separate and I love them at the same time. I. I started getting into Spoon around the same time, but I just never.
- [52:45]
Jeff Blair
I see it.
- [52:45]
Chris Scalia
I mean, they just always sounded so different for me. But. But they had had similar appeal in some ways. They're kind of back to basic, back to basics rock with obvious roots in 70s rock that I really liked and 80s rock. But with Hard to Explain, there's a break in the middle of the song where it just stops and then it picks up again and it gets.
- [53:10]
Jeff Blair
I have that in my notes. It's like, ooh, that. Daring them not to get radio play because the radio hates it when they have full stops. Hard stops in the chorus. No, an anti commercial thing.
- [53:19]
Chris Scalia
But I have a vivid memory of listening to this album for one of the first times in a shopping mall party parking lot. And I just sat in my car replaying Hard to Explain a couple of times because I just couldn't get enough of it. That it just sounded. While it sounded very familiar, it also sounded unlike anything I had heard before. And I couldn't get enough of it.
- [53:58]
Jeff Blair
I can remember.
- [54:22]
Scott, any last thoughts before we move.
- [54:24]
Scott Bertram
On to the sequel Barely Legal? I'll mention Barely Legal because I don't think we have. And that's one. That's also on the EP that was out earlier in the year. And I like that one. It chugs along with some almost like Brit pop kind of melodies. It's another one where the drums are very locked in. That's one of the things that repeat even when they sort of change. Begin to change styles a little. Those drums and the preciseness of them. And I'm going to make a point about this on the next. Next album, Remain. That.
- [54:55]
Chris Scalia
That's. That's.
- [54:56]
Scott Bertram
That's another core part of a sound, as Chris explained.
- [55:00]
Jeff Blair
All right, well, I guess that takes us. This comes out. This album actually came out in I think July or August of 2001, but it came out in the UK first, which is interesting. I think they actually. The UK still back then had this thing where the sometimes American bands that didn't make it here on the audience side would take off big over there a lot of times because. Because they got patronized by like the BBC DJs like John Peel and the like. Pavement is much bigger in Britain than it ever was in America. As it turns out, my favorite band of the 90s, too. Yeah, the Pixies as well. Right. Another one with a great. And these bands, of course, ended up contributing fantastic BBC sessions. I don't know if the Strokes ever did. But the thing is, it came out in America after 9 11. I do remember this because that's when I got the album and my version.
- [55:47]
Scott Bertram
911, I think it was.
- [55:49]
Chris Scalia
No, it was. It was supposed to come out September, late September, and they had to change the date because of New York City Cops.
- [55:56]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, they pulled that and they put on. And it would have bothered me. And that put on the best track when it started.
- [56:03]
Chris Scalia
So the UK cover also has like a more risque. Sex. Yeah, more risque cover. It's like a leather hand on a woman.
- [56:12]
Jeff Blair
Smell the Glove.
- [56:13]
Chris Scalia
Smell the Glove is exactly what it is.
- [56:16]
Jeff Blair
They basically made Smell the Glove is now it's covered.
- [56:18]
Chris Scalia
This one is. The American cover is much better.
- [56:21]
Jeff Blair
I like the psychedelic album cover. Much better. Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, so 2002 is basically the year of the Strokes, right? This is what, you know, they get to reap all the wonderful fruits of becoming rock gods and saving rock culture, and then they have to come up with a follow up. And the follow up, this is the other thing that I remember. I remember as early as 2003 and room on Fire reading reviews saying like, oh, well, they're just repeating themselves. Obviously they aren't going to save rock and roll. It turns out they're just another crappy rock and roll band. Meanwhile, I listen to Room On Fire now and I'm like, if they haven't missed a stroke, this is just as good as the first album. And maybe they're branching out a little bit, but I really don't see a step down if. If is this. It is an A. This is what, an A minus or an A? It's really a fantastic record. And I, you know, again, this is. I was surprised, Chris, when you opened the show by saying you thought that I wouldn't be as big a fan of the Strokes as you were. This is, to me, the one that actually cemented their reputation with me. If you can do these in a row, then, yeah, you've got it.
- [57:45]
No, I won't. Ya.
- [58:18]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, the. The initial response, critical response, response to Room On Fire was, as I remember, a little bit of disappointment because it was so similar, but it was different enough and it played to the band's strengths and it still expanded. Reptilia is. There's nothing like Reptilia on the first album, it is. Well, I won't give too much away, but it's easily one of my favorite stroke song. And it has just an incredible guitar. Guitar riff that. Well, I guess the guitar solo repeats twice. It's an incredible chord progression. Great example of the interplay between the guitarists we've been talking about. And it's a great song because it's loud, it's messy, it's chaotic, but it's also somehow harmonious. And it's still under four minutes. They get so much into it. And then another favorite of mine is 1250 51, which also.
- [59:17]
Jeff Blair
My note here.
- [59:18]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, yeah. It also expands this. The. The sound. The band's sound from the first album with the guitar sound. They.
- [59:27]
Jeff Blair
It.
- [59:27]
Chris Scalia
Early reviews I read said that they brought in a synthesizer.
- [59:31]
Jeff Blair
And I was about to say I thought it was a keyboard. Are you telling me that's actually a guitar?
- [59:35]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, it's. It's. It's Nick on guitar. They bring in a synthesizer later as I think too many synthesizers on later albums. But this one, it's. It's just a guitar that sounds like a synth. And Julian's vocals match going along with the melodies, which I don't think always works, but it works really well here.
- [59:55]
Jeff Blair
Okay, Chris, then I have to interrupt you then, because just to add on to that note, to me, you know, I listened to that and 1251 to me was the obvious single and I thought it was a keyboard, but it's a guitar, as it turns out. That thing feels revelatory. That's where I hear them tracking with Wire, which is why I name check them. Wire's pink flag is to. Is this it by the Strokes? Well, this is their version of Chairs Missing. And specifically this is their version of the song Outdoor Minor, which, if you know, the album by Wire features a big keyboard moment. And the thing I love about this, which is not keyboard, now apparently it's guitar is its counterpoint. It's not just a decorative instrument. They're using all of those things that. That second line weaves very purposefully, as if it were composed like almost in a classical way, you know, to. To interact with the guitar line that was already established. That kind like, you know, that to me is growth. That's the creative growth that you actually see from album to album.
- [61:32]
Chris Scalia
May I add a personal note for the song to give you a sense of how much I love this song. In 2003, I made a mix CD and I put 1251 on right after Dance the Night Away by Van Halen. From your previous episode. So that. That I put it at that level of. Of rock greats.
- [61:52]
Jeff Blair
Hey, Neil. I can see them actually working well back to back because of that guitar line, right?
- [61:56]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [61:57]
Jeff Blair
Eddie has that nice little stinging melodic line, and you get something quite like that on 1251. Scott.
- [62:03]
Scott Bertram
1251 and the. The End has no End are both tracks that have a lot of cars in them.
- [62:11]
Jeff Blair
And I say, Barry, Cars Y in my notes.
- [62:14]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, not synthy, but it's. I mean, in 1251, it sounds like a Moog. And then the End has no end again. It has that same sort of synthy sound, but it's guitar. And the other point here is something with the drums, which is. I remember making this point on the Cars episode, which is the reason the Cars work. One of the reasons the Cars work is that David Robinson is in back being immaculately precise with his drums. Because you can't have all this other stuff happening around you if the drums are off. The drums aren't like, let's go, let's go. Works because Robinson is so on point. And so both these songs, too, the precision with which the drums are played make those songs work on a different level. And both of those are really excellent songs. The End has no End, especially in the chorus. Even sounds a little, you know, taking the Cars to the next level, Next generation, like A.C. newman, new pornographers sound, they would not get there. They wouldn't get there till it's more twin cinema sound, which is a couple years, a year or two away from this. But it's in that. It's in that ballpark. The. We talk about guitars sounding like things under control. That's a moment where I really, you know, embrace the Strokes. I love Under Control and sort of that tribute to 60s soul. And the way the guitars there are playing the horn parts, the guitars are playing the horn lines in what would be a 60s soul kind of Otis Redding sort of tune. And even, I think, lyrically, there's a lot of places on Room on Fire that are even better than Is this it Under Control? When Casablancas is talking about, you know, we worked hard. We don't have no control. We're under control. I don't want to do it your way. It's sort of already alluding to some of the friction, the fractures that are happening under the covers, inside the band, not just among themselves, but with others who are trying to make them the biggest rock band on earth. But Under Control is such a great moment for the band.
- [64:19]
Jeff Blair
I don't wanna waste Your time I don't want to waste your time I just want to say I've got to say we will come down we don't have no control we're no, I don't wanna. Do it your way I don't wanna give it to you your way I don't know.
- [65:13]
Scott Bertram
Reptilia is a perfect rock song. I wouldn't change it a single thing about it. And those lines, you know, please don't slow me down if I'm going too fast. Tell us the story. I know you're not boring. And of course, Casablanca. Blanca is just. Just. Just absolutely grunting out. The room is on fire as she's fixing her hair. This is one of those songs you guys mentioned, you know, the visual aspect of this band. Go watch the video for Reptilia and try not to be, like, consumed by what's happening. And the facial expressions and the way each member is portrayed in that video, the way they play these so live. I mean, Reptilia is. Is a perfect, perfect rock. So.
- [66:43]
Chris Scalia
I know I've already raved about Reptilia, but I feel like I didn't do it justice. And just the way during the. During the guitar solo, the way the bass comes in, too, and every instrument just stacks on the other. It's just them at their ensemble best. I think the other one.
- [67:03]
Jeff Blair
It's funny, before we started the show, Chris and Scott were talking about, like, well, which guitarist is better? Is one of them a lead guitarist? Is one of them a rhythm guitarist? Are they both same time? And, you know, it made me go back and listen to this album in particular. There's a song here called Automatic Stop, where I think it is, perfectly embodies that point. It's like the second verse, I think, is where the action really picks up. There's this instrumental break where they're playing in unison, and then it turns suddenly on the second verse into two guitars weaving amongst one another. And. And the. The song itself, as a. As a melody line, has a kind of an ancient ballad feel, updated for the modern era, modern sound again, quintessential strokes. Everything old is new again in their hands. And that the simple fact that everyone seems to be aware of what everyone else is playing at the same time, and all of their instruments are tailored to what everyone else is doing, gives them that sense of both, like, youthful abandon and energy, but also curious restraint. The intelligence, that's what makes the stroke sort of stand out. It's also calibrated for a purpose, you know.
- [68:12]
Sa.
- [69:03]
Chris Scalia
I mean, I don't Want to. I don't want to overstate this claim, but these guys knew each other from. Some of them from Elements Elementary School and then the rest of them from high school. These were people who spent a lot of time.
- [69:16]
Jeff Blair
A lot of time with each other.
- [69:17]
Chris Scalia
They were in. And meet me in the bathroom a couple of times. They're described as basically being a gang and that you could see why that's good.
- [69:27]
Jeff Blair
I think it was Charlie Cook actually on the show who said that most rock groups are essentially gangs. Well, and there's something good about that.
- [69:33]
Chris Scalia
That's what Sting said, why the Police broke up. It's like bands are gangs and you outgrow gangs, but they're great for a little while.
- [69:41]
Jeff Blair
And.
- [69:41]
Chris Scalia
And, yeah, I think that's certainly the case here. And, Scott, I'm so glad you. You gave a shout out to Under Control because that's. That's a song I call in my notes. I refer to it as a torch song. I've never understood it or thought of it in the terms you described. I think that's a really. Yeah. Provocative way of understanding it. And it's. It's really this, I think, probably the slowest song on the album. But it's not boring. I know know it's not boring.
- [70:07]
Jeff Blair
Would you believe we've been talking about Room on fire for, like, 20 minutes now? And neither of you guys have mentioned my two favorite songs on it? Because this is. This is how strong a record. This is my standout track for me on this album. It has to be. You talk way too much. All right. It is such a good song. It should have been a single. It's Perfect to the Bone has those clean, clear, simple guitar breaks. The melody is paramount. That chorus diverts from a rock verse and into beauty. And there wasn't anything quite like it on the debut album either. So it's a step forward. You know, it's funny also, I think, also very telling that the chorus of that song is like, is this all there is? Is this all there is? Well, is this it? You know, apparently not. That song to me was like. Like, that is the badge of this album. That's the one that says that they have real ability to grow and move forward within what they've done. The other song you guys haven't mentioned yet is Meet Me in the Bathroom. We've mentioned the memoir, but we haven't. We haven't mentioned the song that gave it its title. That's what she Said. Literally, it's a. That's what she Said joke.
- [72:18]
Right.
- [72:19]
Chris Scalia
Before Michael Scott.
- [72:20]
Jeff Blair
Before Michael Scott. Is it maybe the iconic Stroke song? I mean, yeah, the book. But this spirit of that song, this is. Yeah, New York City rock culture. It's the allure, the danger, the trysting. Before all that scene just completely died. That scene is so far dead now, it's like. It's like Talking about the 1930s and how, you know, we used to, like, you know, put an onion belt, you know, put. Put an onion in our belts, you know, and there were three feathers to a nickel or something like that.
- [72:45]
Scott Bertram
It's.
- [72:46]
Jeff Blair
It's.
- [72:46]
It's that kind of dead dead era nowadays. And that's probably why I love it, because it feels like music from an era. And, you know, that was part of my childhood. So of course I'm going to feel pretty wistful reliving it.
- [73:50]
Chris Scalia
Such romantic lyrics, too. Anywhere is fine Just don't waste my time Meet me in the bathroom. That's what she said. It's, you know, romance is dead now. You don't get that in.
- [73:59]
Jeff Blair
I know, I know. Well, you don't even have sex nowadays unless it's like the most vulgar form anyways, you know. Also, we didn't mention the Way It Is. It's another great one. All those pre choruses and their songs have these. These wonderful suspensions that make you wonder, how will it resol. Where is it going? What's the importance of this? Why is it building up? It's a trick that works for the Strokes so well.
- [74:21]
Chris Scalia
My only complaint about this album is that the last track should have been the End has no End. I always expect that to be the end. And I like this track. I Can't Win. I Can't Win is a good song, as you guys were saying, but it shouldn't be the last song. The end has no end. It's got the title and it's got this great breakdown that would have. At the end of the song. It would have been a wonderful way to close out the album.
- [75:08]
Jeff Blair
Ra.
- [75:37]
All right, so at the end of 2003, they put out Room On Fire. And now instead of one year off, well, things are slowing down a bit now. It's two years until their next record. And what do we think about the final Again, I compare them to Wire with their initial album trilogy. This is the end of the Strokes trilogy. They take a lot of time off after this and. And maybe they're not quite the same band when they were still return, but we'll get to that when we do. What do we think of First. What are our first impressions of? First Impressions of Earth? December 30, 2005. I always thought of it as a 2006 album for obvious reasons. But, yeah, I guess technically it came out at the end of the year in 05.
- [76:41]
Some people think they're always right Others are quiet and I'm tired Others who seem so very nice oh, inside them I feel sad and Wrong oh, no. 29 different attributes. Only seven that you like 20 ways to see the world. Oh, Get out.
- [77:17]
Scott Bertram
So I'm. I'm confused. Confusion is my main emotion about first impressions of Earth because it doesn't make sense to me. So this is December 2005. This comes out. And as I think back to about the scene around that time. So there's a band called Phantom Planet that I really like out of Los Angeles, California. It's great.
- [77:44]
Chris Scalia
There you go, the OC themed song.
- [77:46]
Scott Bertram
But their first album is very sort of power poppy with an edge. And their follow up, self titled album comes out in 2004. And it's clear they're trying to do the Strokes right. They're trying. They're dirtier, they're louder. It's a different sound. And then this record sounds like a reaction to things that have happened in 2004. Franz Ferdinand breaks in 2004. The killer's big record is 2004. And instead of continuing, continuing, it's like a reaction to bands that were more popular, at least in terms of record sales and singles, than they were. But in doing so, they so bastardized the sound that there's no center anymore. Like what? The south park movie is bigger, longer. This is darker, thicker and longer. It's 52 minutes long. And it's sort of. They said, okay, well, the Killers and Franz Ferdinand have sort of questioned, cornered this sort of dancey rock portion of the audience. We could be heavier. Everything is thicker and bigger, blockier. It's a different approach to the way the drums and bass interact with each other. It's now just this one unit that forces and drives these songs forward. It's a very different sound that underpins a lot of these tracks.
- [79:19]
Jeff Blair
Why won't you come over here? We got a city of love. I know you miss the way I saw you so cold, so cold.
- [80:01]
Scott Bertram
And it's really long. It's 52 minutes of music. Going from 32, 34 minutes of music. That's a problem. I don't think the songs are terrible, especially in the first third or so of the record. Yeah, but it's just sort of this roaring, rampaging sound, and as opposed to the more unique Strokes sound. And to me, it sounds like they're reacting to something that had nothing to do with the kind of music they were making or wanted to make. And all of a sudden, you have something that is completely different, that's presented to an audience, and I'm just confused by the whole thing.
- [80:41]
Jeff Blair
Okay, Scott, let me respond to that, and I completely agree with you about your critique. They actually put out a song on this record that I think is the best song on the record. Also the most uncharacteristic song on the record that literally responds to your. Your prompt. And it's ask me anything. Right? That's the Strokes trying to move forward. It's not them in their, like, sweet spot. It's a plaintiff ballad with synth strings. Nero Zagato, maybe.
- [81:07]
Scott Bertram
It's a.
- [81:07]
Chris Scalia
It's a Mellotron. It's Nick playing melotron.
- [81:09]
Jeff Blair
All right, I. I like that, and I'm sure some other people don't, but there's a lyric in that line, the lyric in the song where he says, like, we could drag it out, but that's for other chance to do.
- [81:18]
Chris Scalia
Yeah.
- [81:18]
Jeff Blair
I've got nothing to say and I've got nothing to say. You can even hear that break before the final section where it would all once been handled with guitars. I like that song, and I'm sure that. That both of you guys don't. And do you think that's them losing their center and losing their focus? And I'm like, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with them trying to branch out a bit like that.
- [81:43]
I got nothing to say I got nothing to say I got nothing to say I got nothing to give Got no reason to live and I will fight to survive I got nothing to hide Wish I wasn't some. I like to watch I like to read.
- [82:33]
I am actually surprisingly more. I will be willing to apologize for a lot of stuff on First Impressions with Earth. I understand exactly why people who love the First Impression two albums. I think this is a clear decline up the length. Scott, you nailed it. I mean, that's the most obvious flaw. These people should know how to be brief. But I don't mind a lot of the music on this record. I don't mind their attempts to branch out. Like, a song like Evening sun probably has, like, I don't know, say, me five or six chords too many in that chorus. But I do like it. I love the way the drums are played on. This is a nice little Ride Heavy drum line on Evening Sun. And I. I'd say it ends well. It's just one of my favorite album enders from the Strokes. Red Light. It's a great song. The guitar line that tracks the. And you don't like it, so I'm telling you. That's a funny thing to find out.
- [83:38]
Oh, please leave me alone. Oh, You know, I said it just to get you.
- [84:08]
Chris Scalia
I love the first half of this album. You Only Live Once is a fantastic opening track. Juice Box, I think, was the first single. I didn't like it very much at the time.
- [84:19]
Jeff Blair
I think that's boring. See, that's funny how we have such different opinions.
- [84:22]
Chris Scalia
No, I don't. I don't. I don't like Juice Box very much, but it's. I like it more than what happens later on. It's. But it's a great. It was the right first single for this album because it set the tone for the album. It's dark, it's brooding, it's got a more complicated song structure than the previous song. So you. That was their way of saying, hey, we're a different band now, guys. But much of the rest of the first half of the album is. Is different from the previous two, but still in control, still recognizable, still some great riffs. And like, Heart in a Cage is probably my favorite on the album. It's still darker, but it's got a more.
- [85:02]
Jeff Blair
More.
- [85:03]
Chris Scalia
More great guitar work for M.
- [85:32]
Jeff Blair
St.
- [85:52]
The longer song structures really do kill them, though. Like that Vision of Division. That's too long.
- [85:57]
Chris Scalia
Vision, Division.
- [85:58]
Jeff Blair
And the lowest point is Eyes of the World for me. That's the one where I'm just like, well, why are you going on for so long? It's only four and a half minutes. We're not talking about progress. We're not talking about. Yes, 11 minutes long. But even at four and a half minutes, that's tiresome.
- [86:11]
Chris Scalia
Well, and it's just. Yeah, it's just wordplay too. The whole time. Different words that end in ize. Yeah, but notice Vision of Division. This goes back to what I was saying before. Everyone. Everyone. It wasn't just Julian that everyone co wrote Vision of Division. I kind of like that song.
- [86:29]
Jeff Blair
Maybe the dictatorship was better, though.
- [86:31]
Chris Scalia
Yeah. Yeah. And Julian get. Julian's singing gets too screamy though, when he's. How long must I wait? Wait. He just yells it. But it's a baroque song structure. And I use that term. I'll also call it. This is a big insult. Dorsey. Yeah.
- [86:48]
Jeff Blair
Those are fighting words on political beats.
- [86:50]
Chris Scalia
In Meet Me in the Bathroom one, I can't remember which band members talk.
- [86:53]
Jeff Blair
About how they're influenced by the Doors, by the way. That's. That's why it's very funny. They would not consider that an insult in.
- [86:59]
Chris Scalia
In the. In their pre modern age songwriting. It was apparently more elaborate and more dorsy. And I think that this is certainly a departure from their first two albums, but maybe more like what happened before the first two albums. And they're. Maybe they're. This is just a theory. Maybe they're going back to those more elaborate song structures they had before. I don't think it works.
- [87:23]
Jeff Blair
I can't get along with all your friends don't know how to act and so there is. Why do I accept the things you say? You know what to change but not in what way how long must I wait? How long must I wait? How long must. That way. How long was that way I long was.
- [88:06]
Chris Scalia
Jeff. I hate Ask me anything.
- [88:09]
Jeff Blair
I can absolutely see why. Because it's so uncharacteristic.
- [88:12]
Chris Scalia
And you're right. I think it's right. It's kind of like a. Yeah, it's a. It's an anthem. Anti anthem in a way. It sounds to me like a they Might Be Giants song. Speaking of great New York bands, I like Nerds. Yeah, I love they Might Be Giants and I think they could have done this song well because it wouldn't have come across as so pretentious and. And self serious. And I think it generally don't spend more than three minutes repeating. I've got nothing to say if that's in your chorus. Only have it once in your chorus. And this is why I think it's such a. It's such a Be Here now like album by Oasis. They didn't have any.
- [88:49]
Jeff Blair
That song could have been one minute seconds long. Yeah, that's.
- [88:54]
Chris Scalia
And then there's another one. Oh, 15 minutes. Oh, I really hate this song. And Julian's vocals are so bad. You can tell throughout this album he's trying to. The vocals are different here. They're more upfront, they're less filtered than in the first two albums. And Julian's really stretching, which I appreciate, but here he sounds like Shane McGowan and I like the Pogues, but I do mean that as an insult. He sounds drunk and slurred and it's. It's just not good. And it's four and a half minutes and it shouldn't be.
- [89:26]
Jeff Blair
It's not that I don't really. I love you. It's just that I don't really know. The hateful things you think you want the same. Time will turn them into jokes. It was all just a dream.
- [90:13]
Shane McGowan and the Pogues are fine. The Strokes are also fine. I still know if I want to hear a mixture of this.
- [90:19]
Chris Scalia
That's exactly right. And so I think that I love the first half of this album and then the second half. It's not good, I should say. My wife is a huge Strokes fan. She claims she's a bigger Strokes fan than I am. She loves everything on this album, including the second half. And we had a fight about it last night.
- [90:39]
Jeff Blair
Well, I want you to tell her that Jeff actually agrees with her. Okay, thank you. Tell Adele. All right, Scott, any thoughts before we move on to the long breakup?
- [90:49]
Scott Bertram
I will only point out in our goal to mention at least a half a dozen songs with melodies lifted straight from elsewhere. Razor Blade, which is one of the better songs here and does have that sort of guitar work we've talked about previously, has a melody in the chorus lifted straight from Mandy from Barry Manilow. You came and you gave without asking. That's okay.
- [91:10]
Jeff Blair
So that, that's why I didn't spot it. Because I.
- [91:12]
Scott Bertram
Because you don't know Barry man.
- [91:13]
Jeff Blair
That I've never heard Barry Manilow's man Jeff.
- [91:16]
Chris Scalia
But Jeff, you should know it from the Simpsons, that episode where home Homer almost almost has an affair and Marge comes to and he sings Marge, you came and you gave me a turkey on my vacation away from Worky Chris.
- [91:32]
Jeff Blair
If you could see me right now, I'm making a big wide eyed slack jawed like facial expression. Like I'm like that's that song.
- [91:40]
Chris Scalia
That's that song.
- [91:41]
Jeff Blair
I've learned something on this show.
- [91:46]
Feelings are more important than your. Oh, There you go.
- [92:27]
Chris Scalia
Scott. I was glad that you you mentioned that to me in an email exchange yesterday. That has always bothered me about the song. I don't mind lifted melodies, but not from Barry Manilow, for Pete's sake.
- [92:38]
Scott Bertram
Maybe they thought much like Jeff, there'd be no crossover. There'd be no one listen to Incredible.
- [92:43]
Jeff Blair
Layer to this tune now that I'm only realizing I have to go back and listen to Mandy before retack returning to it. All right, well then you know what? Here's part of the story that I really don't know. In fact I. I literally file the next like four or five. What is it? How many years of the Strokes non career as quote drama and drugs? All I know is they didn't make an album for a very long time and I have no idea why.
- [93:07]
And I.
- [93:08]
If either of you two have any idea why that all fell apart, other than drama and drugs, this is your time to tell us because I don't. Just don't know what happened. Pressure maybe from the, you know, the industry as well could have played a role.
- [93:20]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, it was. It was disappointment over how that the previous album went and they wanted to. Julian and Albert did solo projects. Julian's album, I think was called Phrases for the Young. And Albert's was Yours To Keep. Yours To Keep, by the way, has a great song called 101. If you like power pop. That song's beautiful. And yeah, it was just. I. I think it was. Oh, and Albert, I'm sure. Well, my. He was not the only member who, who did drugs, but at this point he slid pretty deeply into heroin. I think.
- [94:00]
Jeff Blair
This is, this is public knowledge.
- [94:01]
Scott Bertram
Right?
- [94:02]
Jeff Blair
Everybody knows, like, yeah, he had a really, really bad drug and it was probably already an issue while they were, you know, still to together.
- [94:09]
Right.
- [94:11]
And so.
- [94:12]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, go ahead.
- [94:13]
Jeff Blair
No, I don't know. I mean, literally you're in command here. Because I actually don't know the history.
- [94:17]
Well. I.
- [94:18]
So I do know the next album, which I have pretty. A pretty decent opinion of, as it turns out.
- [94:23]
Chris Scalia
I don't know what. Why they finally did get back together, but they eventually did. The. The recording process of. Of Angles is up for debate. Some people. People say what. They took an unusual approach or different approach for them for recording it. And Julian did his. Recorded his vocals separately and somehow that blew up into them.
- [94:49]
Jeff Blair
Like, we didn't write it together.
- [94:50]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, they didn't write together and they were never pretty.
- [94:52]
Jeff Blair
Like, fair enough.
- [94:53]
Chris Scalia
They never did it together. They were.
- [94:55]
Jeff Blair
He was like in another part of the country. So he like, like recorded his vocals like in a room and then mailed it to them. That it's, you know, it's not ideal, but it's. But it's also not like for like corporate guys, but it's not.
- [95:07]
Chris Scalia
And apparently that's not how it happened. Like they, they worked on it a lot together, but he did record his vocals separately. But that, that, that version you mentioned, I think has taken over public awareness and has hurt the reputation of what I think is a really good album.
- [95:24]
Jeff Blair
I like this album a lot.
- [95:25]
Chris Scalia
Solid at the very least.
- [95:27]
Jeff Blair
So, Scott, actually we'll throw it open to you first. What do you think of the Strokes? Is it a reunion album? Is it a comeback? It's the first thing they'd done in five years. That's all it really meant. But what did you think of Angles? Because I got to tell you, I really enjoyed this one.
- [95:41]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, it's really good is what it is. This was the latter half of the Strokes career record I was planning to make a solid defense of. But it sounds like we'll all do it together, I guess.
- [95:52]
Chris Scalia
Yeah.
- [95:53]
Scott Bertram
Some years off. In short, this is the album I think they wanted to make on first and foremost, impressions of Earth. Like this is the thing that they were sort of searching for and couldn't find. It's what they were looking for six years ago, but now it's six years into the future. So it's also a different audience than the one that existed.
- [96:14]
Jeff Blair
An interview, like one of the band members said, like, this is the album we should have done after Room on Fire, but you can't redo time, right?
- [96:20]
It.
- [96:21]
It makes a lot more sense if it comes third as opposed to fourth after like, you know, half a decade.
- [96:28]
All the time for Fool. I don't know why you're so colorful, but I don't mind. That's not the problem. And I don't need anyone with me right now. Monday, Tuesday is my weekend. You get digging all the time for a fool. I don't know why.
- [97:05]
Scott Bertram
Now. It's not perfect. And there. There are some certain. This is where there, you know, experimentation and. And misfires sort of come into the equation. There's some that. That grew on me. Call Me Back grew on me quite a bit as I listened. Games never really did, but. But look, and you're so right. It's just kind of an ugly tune. I. I don't like that. But I want to talk about the good stuff. There are. Are back to back songs here. Undercover of Darkness, which I knew this.
- [97:34]
Jeff Blair
Back to back too, right?
- [97:35]
Yes.
- [97:35]
Scott Bertram
I'm going to leave Undercover of Darkness because I know one of you likes it as one of a favorite. But that's. That's a very strokesy song, right?
- [97:42]
Chris Scalia
That.
- [97:43]
Jeff Blair
That's one that sounds steal. The one that's going on my top five afterwards. Because Two Kinds of Happiness is amazing.
- [97:47]
Scott Bertram
Two Kinds of Happiness.
- [97:48]
Chris Scalia
So I'll.
- [97:49]
Scott Bertram
I'll say a few words of happiness. Two Kinds of Happiness, man. That's a Nick Valencia song. He plays a lot. I mentioned the Pixies earlier and the more he plays, the more I think about the way Joey Santiago played guitar in Pixies. And he's just on top of everything here. This is a very U2 edge guitar tone kind of sound. That combines post punk sounds. This huge soaring chorus and yet combined with something they'd use a lot more starting here, this sort of very soft, squishy, almost, you know, machine esque drum beat that goes along with Two Kinds of Happiness. But that is, again, that just seems to be the kind of song they were searching for six years ago. They finally put it together on. I was gonna call it Angels on Angles and Two Kinds of Happiness. That's a great song. And the other one. And add this to the list. So. Gratis. Gratis Faction. Gratis.
- [98:46]
Jeff Blair
Faction Gratis. Like gratification and satisfaction. That's. It's a portmanteau.
- [98:53]
Scott Bertram
I will never complain when someone wants to steal from the great Nick Lowe, but certainly this is.
- [98:57]
Chris Scalia
So.
- [98:57]
Scott Bertram
It goes from Nick Lowe twisting just slightly and. And I'm fine with it. Sort of delivered in a. In a Billy Joel New York sneer. Like it's an. It's a. It's a.
- [99:08]
Chris Scalia
It's.
- [99:08]
Scott Bertram
If Nick Lowe were a rude New Yorker delivering these lyrics and like, you're never going to get their love. They're a little bit of bitterness about perhaps the way things played out in their career where they're really well known and people like them a lot and they're stars, but they're not commercially uber successful. They're not moving millions of units, they don't have top 40 type songs, but they are stars. And so that's an interesting place to be. And it's a topic that I think gets begun here on Angles and it is returned on future albums and future songs.
- [99:45]
Jeff Blair
Know other people. Business. No good solution though, with some revolution.
- [99:57]
What up luck?
- [99:58]
It may take a thousand years, but I think we can do it best. Men fight, but they never enjoy life as good as when they abuse it.
- [100:33]
Scott Bertram
Those are the big ones. In case someone wants to say more about it. I'll just mention I think Life Is Simple. In the moonlight is one of their great, great songs too. Another one that's full of sort of regret and sadness and brings that sort of synthy pop song into it. Animals on TV singing about some pain they felt at some point. I didn't want to tell you I was jealous again. That sort of. Is this the way things. Is this the way things are really playing out for us in this band? Take six years off, we come back and present this. And the last one did an autobiography.
- [101:06]
Jeff Blair
In these lyrics that you really don't realize or expect a rock band playing rock songs, but now it's really actually about their career. Journey, if you listen closely.
- [101:15]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. So I think this is a real. I call it a triumph. I'll call it a triumph. I mean, I really, really liked his record.
- [101:40]
Jeff Blair
Work, so. Well, Got to go.
- [102:09]
The third best album easily. I think we can all agree.
- [102:12]
Chris Scalia
No, I think that's a valid argument. I'm not sure I agree.
- [102:18]
Jeff Blair
I now know exactly where you're going with that. Okay. And I can buy it, too.
- [102:22]
Chris Scalia
But anyways, Chris, I do really like this album. Scott, you'll be happy to know that my wife Adele loves Life Is simple in the Moonlight. And I love what you say about Gratisfaction. The Billy Joel New York sneer. I hadn't thought of it as a bill in Billy Joel's terms, like from Big Shot, but I'm thinking this is where I think Julian's vocals remind me of Television. Usually it's the guitars, but here the vocals in Venus d' Amelio have really great. Yeah, really great sneer to it. Late 70s punkish, stuttering attitude toward it.
- [102:59]
Scott Bertram
So.
- [102:59]
Chris Scalia
And I. I had never thought of it. Never made that Nick Lowe connection. But I can never unhear that now. I think you're right. I do not like. You're so right. I. I hate that song.
- [103:11]
Scott Bertram
Actually, that's my least favorite one here.
- [103:13]
Chris Scalia
And Jeff, sounds like I. I said that Ask Me Anything would have been a good. They Might be Giant song. I think this would have been a good Radiohead song. Like, right down to repeating random lines like, get off on the same floor. Get off on the same floor. You know, I could hear that working with Tom York, but it doesn't work here.
- [103:31]
Jeff Blair
I feel like if I ever asked you your true opinion of Radiohead, Chris, you would break my heart.
- [103:35]
Chris Scalia
Oh, I love radio. I love Radiohead.
- [103:38]
Jeff Blair
Oh, okay. Oh, you're just. You're just saying that the suit doesn't fit.
- [103:41]
Chris Scalia
No, the suit doesn't fit.
- [103:42]
Jeff Blair
I'm saying you.
- [103:43]
Chris Scalia
I love Radiohead.
- [103:44]
Jeff Blair
I love that looks good on you.
- [103:47]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, exactly.
- [103:47]
Scott Bertram
Oh, it looks good on you.
- [103:49]
Chris Scalia
No, man, I saw. I saw Radiohead. I went to the 9:30 club alone to see them during the OK computer tour. So I. I love Radioh.
- [104:02]
Jeff Blair
Don't want to play you and me I don't want to fight, don't want to play you and me I don't want to fight, don't want to play you.
- [104:46]
I won't forgive you. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure I. I got a bad vibe wafting off of that comparison. Anyway, continue.
- [104:53]
Chris Scalia
You and. But yeah, under. Oh, Machu picchu. Which I don't think we mentioned.
- [104:59]
Jeff Blair
Yes, I have thoughts on that one, too.
- [105:01]
Chris Scalia
Very new sound. Almost a SCA sound to it that. That is different from. Different for them, but they pull it off. I like it.
- [105:07]
Jeff Blair
Okay, so my joke here is that that my. These ones were basically new to me when I. When we came back for the show. So Machu Picchu sounds great until the ending of the song where the chorus repeats just one too many times and you begin to think you're listening to like an early 80s UK ska song by Madness.
- [105:23]
Chris Scalia
Nothing wrong with that.
- [105:24]
Jeff Blair
I'm af.
- [105:25]
Chris Scalia
If I ask you your opinion of Madness, you'll break my heart.
- [105:29]
Jeff Blair
I only know the one song, basically is my problem with them. So I have no informed opinion at all. But, like, that's. That's mainly the one critique I have of that one. Anyways, I'm sorry for interrupting you, though.
- [105:39]
Chris Scalia
Well, I was just going to repeat the praise for Undercover of Darkness. This. I was so happy to hear this song. It was such a wonderful comeback song. Pretty sure it was. Is the first single. It. I think it's one of their best songs. The guitars are forward again. They blow you away. I love the guitar solo. They. It has a great tempo change toward the end of the guitar solo. That just gets me every time I. I can't get enough of that guitar solo. And it's a. In some ways, it's. It's them sounding like themselves again. But there's some new touches in there especially, I think. I can't think of many stroke songs that feature soaring harmonies, but this one does. We're not talking like Michael Anthony level harmonies here, but still pretty prominent harmonies. You got screaming guitars and then low guitars in there as well. And I think it's Julian's best vocal performance too, especially chorus. He has his line so long. My friend and adversary. And then he switches those adversaries and friend. He just hits those notes so well. Where he was trying to stretch himself vocally in the previous album, maybe the time during solo work helped him. And he really does stretch himself effectively really well. In Undercover of Darkness.
- [107:41]
Jeff Blair
I went for you.
- [107:54]
That's funny. We'll talk about Julian Casablancas's falsetto. I think in a later album, it's something. It's something he develops into a genuine strength, in my opinion.
- [108:02]
Chris Scalia
I completely agree with you. Yeah.
- [108:04]
Jeff Blair
You know, and. And it's just kind of trying it out here. But the thing about Undercover Darkness that stands out to me is like, you're saying, like, how they've evolved over Time. This one' much smoother and more restrained sounding than that Ram Shackle chaos of their early albums. Right? But it's funky, it's playful. It actually doesn't feel like it's like. It's not like slick studio pros, right? It's still got that great melody and a kick and beat, but it just feels like it's a mature Strokes as opposed to like, you know, like young demo guys playing in a garage and I just had to. We've talked for a long time about this album, guys. You know, Angles. If you slept on it, don't. It's a great record. I want to say something else again about Two Kinds of Happiness, because I'm this transfixed with the way that song handles its rhythm. I think it was. Scott, you were mentioning the guitar on that from Nick Valencia. For me, it's the problems. It's freezium already. Like he double times that chorus, right? So it's. Song like it becomes suddenly so much more hyperactive once it shifts into his chorus and then back. It slows down again for the verses and then it becomes hyperactive once again and it all feels rather. Again, it's both natural and not natural in the sense that you feel the. You can hear the art. You can hear the artifice in a good way. You can hear the craft in it without it being awkward or strange. That song is the Strokes at their best. And actually I'd say if you were to ask me, that's the best one on the album.
- [109:39]
Ram.
- [110:25]
Overall, this is just a shockingly good record, especially for a band that. I think at that point it. When did this come out? Was it 2011?
- [110:34]
Chris Scalia
2011? Yeah.
- [110:36]
Jeff Blair
I thought they were over, done with Walking, Washed up, Forgotten. And they weren't. And then that's a really good thing.
- [110:43]
Chris Scalia
I'm sorry, can I say one, two more things about Undercover of Darkness? I was raving about Julian's vocals. I think the best part is the second verse. The lyrics are, get dressed, jump out of bed into a vest. And it's very bouncy, happy first line. And then the next line is, are you okay? But he sings it so well and I don't think he's done any vocals like this before. It's just really loud and drown out. Drawn out and approaching the falsetto he really nails. Later on it's. I'll let you guys splice that into here. But I love that vocal moment there.
- [111:55]
Jeff Blair
Sacrifice.
- [112:21]
Chris Scalia
And then the next. The next lyric is a reference to how they've grown as a band. And how much time has passed since their initial hit last Night It Goes. I've been all around this town. Everybody's been. Been singing the same song for 10 years. It's like. It's a reminder of how long it's been and maybe how. What their presence in the music scene has been, even as they've been aware for so long.
- [112:48]
Jeff Blair
All right, well, unless you have anything left to say, we have to talk about the album. That, ironically enough, boy, is this actually a really great title. I think this is the one disappointment in the Strokes discography. I was the guy who, like, will defend first impressions of Earth in a lot of ways, but Come Down Machine is kind of a calm down machine for me. This is the album that of their six records, which is not terribly huge, this is the one that I really don't have a lot of time for. There are like two or three tracks on it that I like. There are some experiments. I'm the guy who likes it when they try to take chances. You guys apparently don't. I, like, call it Fake, call it Karma. It's a weird kind of way to end an album. I mean, it's not much of a song, and it's a strange instrumental approach, but it works for me. Right. But it wouldn't be like a single, it wouldn't be a feature, it wouldn't be a major track. This is the one album of theirs that really doesn't. Nothing on it has ever leapt out to me.
- [113:44]
Yeah, show me where to go Something I don't want to know, baby.
- [114:07]
And I don't know if you guys are going to wildly disagree or not.
- [114:11]
Chris Scalia
I will wildly, wildly disagree.
- [114:13]
Jeff Blair
Go for it.
- [114:15]
Chris Scalia
I agree about. No, no, no. So I agree about. Call it Fake, call it Karma. I love that song. It's really weird. It's. It's like a. A 1930s song, something.
- [114:25]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, that works. I like it when people take good, good chances.
- [114:29]
Chris Scalia
It's weird, it's spooky. It's. It's like the song at the end of the Shining. They don't do anything like it. It's kind of a Van Halen way of ending an album.
- [114:39]
Jeff Blair
This isn't crap, by the way, but there's, like, songs on it that are, like, weird and dancy and like, the dancy vibe, I think is valid. But the Strokes maybe aren't the best guys to do disco. Like, disco vibes don't sit so well with them.
- [114:51]
Chris Scalia
There. There's a song. Well, 80s come down machine is. It fits that. And that is very Synth heavy that. I don't love this song. It's five minutes. It shouldn't be. The opening reminds me of the Chariots of Fire theme, which is great. But again, maybe not what I want from the Strokes. And then welcome to Japan. I really like welcome to Japan. It has one of their lines, random lines. I like saying at strange times, what kind of buys a Lotus. And the answer to that, it's actually. And the answer to that question is Julian Casablancas.
- [115:25]
Jeff Blair
He drives a Lotus, so he's making fun of himself. Great.
- [115:29]
Chris Scalia
But welcome to Japan is a weird crib of before the Night Is over by Technotronic. Don't know if you guys remember that 80s movies band.
- [115:37]
Jeff Blair
No, I don't.
- [115:39]
Chris Scalia
They do. They do Pump up the Jam. You probably remember that song to an.
- [115:43]
Scott Bertram
NBA game in the 90s. You know that song?
- [116:02]
Jeff Blair
Notice. Didn't know that God was loaded. Didn't really know this. What kind of. See you Wednesday. Come on, come on, come over Take it off your shoulder Come on, come over we got to get to work now Struggle, bring it up.
- [116:32]
Chris Scalia
But I like the opening track Tap out very much. I think that. I think the title refers to the. The tap of the drums and the light touches on the guitar. It's not like Eddie Van Halen tapping, but it's a different tapping sound. Julian brings in some softer vocals there. It's approaches Falsetto on that. On that track. But the standout track for me is all the Time, the second one. I think this is their most underrated song. I love it. It's up there. It's up there with Undercover of Darkness for me. Steve Haydn, a few years ago had a list of the Strokes 25 best songs, and he didn't even mention this one, which broke my heart because I love this song. It's another great guitar solo, too, with a tempo change that I like so much from Undercover of Darkness and some lyrics that I just really like. I don't know exactly. There's political lyrics, I guess, but the way Julian delivers them I really appreciate, and they're very memorable to me. Like this line. No one talks about the war on my block or on the shore. And there's this very nice gentle strumming throughout the verses as he sings the lyrics.
- [117:54]
Jeff Blair
Little do you want what I want to all the time in the world.
- [118:23]
You know, the good thing about. About well done political lyrics is that you don't really even recognize they are until you think, you know. It reminds me of again going back to Spoon. It's like, don't Make Me a Target. A song I've just been known every word of and hummed. It took me like, half a decade to realize, oh, wait, it's about Bush.
- [118:39]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, well, and. And by the way, I think. I think the Darkness of First Impressions of Earth, a lot of those are political songs like Killing Lies and Vision of Division, I assume are references to the Iraq war.
- [118:51]
Jeff Blair
But it's nice to be oblivious the way I am.
- [118:54]
Chris Scalia
Yes. So I like. Oh, sorry, never mind. I was going to mention Taken for a Fool, which is from. Actually from Angles, but we didn't talk about that, and we should have, but it's not on Comedown Machine.
- [119:10]
Scott Bertram
Come Down Machine is the album you listen to and think, I wish other songs were on this record. That's what Come Down. I can't. I can't really defend Come Down Machine. It's my least favorite record. It's my least favorite record of the Strokes. It is oddly muted and muddy in its production. It is, I'm sorry, boring at times, even. It's not 52 minutes long.
- [119:34]
Jeff Blair
This is a band that is rarely boring. Whatever else you can say about them, they get in, they get out, they make their statement. But this one's just like, kind of like. It's actually grim and gray and kind of like what's going on.
- [119:46]
Scott Bertram
I mean, by this point, no one is confusing the Strokes for the Velvet Undergr or the Stooges, Right. This is a synth pop and like, you know, 80s U2 and little new Wave. It's a. It's a. It's a sound. It's. It's. It's a conscious decision. All the time is fine. I think it tries too hard. That's my only problem with it. It's a fine. It's fine track. 50 50. It sounds like they're channeling the Ramones. So I kind of like that right down to, like, that prehistoric surf drum.
- [120:16]
Jeff Blair
I have that on my notes. My favorite song on the record precisely because it's got some Ramones energy.
- [120:52]
Chris Scalia
It's my. One of my least favorite songs on really?
- [120:54]
Jeff Blair
Okay.
- [120:55]
Chris Scalia
Yeah. At least the beginning eases up a little bit at the beginning, but, yeah.
- [121:00]
Scott Bertram
And the other.
- [121:00]
Chris Scalia
I don't like that. I don't like Partners in Crime.
- [121:03]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [121:04]
Chris Scalia
For similar reasons.
- [121:05]
Scott Bertram
The other one I kind of like is Slow Animals, which is just after 50 50. Jeff mentioned the falsetto, which shows up here in a number of places on One Way Trigger, on Slow Animals Chances. So it's in a lot of places. But I think of. Of those choices, I think Slow Animals probably is the.
- [121:22]
Chris Scalia
The best of.
- [121:39]
Jeff Blair
Sam.
- [122:09]
Scott Bertram
But yeah, I mean it. It's very hard to find a hook here in places. It's very hard to find a really great melody on a lot of these tracks. It's. Yeah, it's just one I can't defend.
- [122:22]
Chris Scalia
Well, I'll continue defending it by. By going back to Chances, another one I really like. It's my favorite of their slow songs.
- [122:31]
Jeff Blair
And.
- [122:31]
Chris Scalia
And it's one where their 80s vibe works. Well. They tried it a couple other times on this album where I don't think it works as effectively. It's almost a. I don't think they're trying to sound like Kate Bush, but it has a Kate Bush feel to it. Yeah, I really. I really like this song actually quite, quite a bit. And this fals falsetto is starting to really work.
- [122:58]
Jeff Blair
I think my chance is alone.
- [123:29]
So you have offered an unexpected and full throated defense of Calm Down Machine, the greatest album of 2013.
- [123:36]
Chris Scalia
I will. I will say a lot of my love for this album is sentimental. My wife and I listened to this album a lot together when we went to work and dropped our kids off at daycare. So we listened to this album a lot together. I'm sure that has something to do with it, but I also. Yeah. So the.
- [123:55]
Jeff Blair
The question then is, Chris, how often did you guys listen to the Future Present Past EP together? Do you have any strong defense to offer for this? Sort of like, you know. Okay, we're talking about how the band is obviously taking a lot to put out records. 2013 is come down machine. Three years later, they put out an EP that's 20 minutes long, includes a remix of one of the songs.
- [124:17]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [124:17]
Jeff Blair
Do we have anything to say about it before we end with their, I guess, Final To Date album, which comes at 2020?
- [124:23]
Chris Scalia
I had actually forgotten about this ep. I did listen to it when it came out and didn't have high hopes because Julian was doing a lot of his work, a lot of work with his side project the Voids and I do not like the Voids. I assumed this would sound a lot like, kind of does. I like. There are three tracks. I like one of the tracks, Thread of Joy, quite a bit. It's pretty funny. It's a light song. It's not as a serious contribution to their catalog, but it's fun. And then oblivious. Julian's lyrics are a little too yelly for me, but it's not bad. And then Drag Queen is. I think it's the first one on the ep. It. I do Not. It just sounds like living in a computer while it crashes. It's just. It's not a fun song to listen to.
- [125:54]
Jeff Blair
All right, Scott, because I'm assuming that you didn't have any strong opinions about scp. Am I correct about that, by the way?
- [126:00]
Scott Bertram
You're correct. To me, it sounds essentially like an extension of Come Down Machine and then Threat of Joy, which is, hey, what if we sort of sounded like what we did on this is. Is this it? But kind of slower. Yeah, that's it.
- [126:14]
Jeff Blair
What does that leave us to say about the Strength Strokes final album, the new abnormal? It's not their final album. We don't know if they're going to put out some. Another album later on, but it's their final album to date. And I will say that during my research in preparation for the show, I did find a really fantastic quote from Julian Casablancas. Apparently he announced on stage at like one concert right before the record came out. He's like, yeah, we took the 2010s off. So here we are finally back again with another damn album. And you know, I. I can't. I've been trying to get a beat on what Chris's opinion of this would be. We didn't like discuss it with one another prior to the show. I have to say, I think this is a pretty good album. I mean, there are at least two songs on here and I have. I have no idea. Maybe the rest of them offend you guys, but there are two songs on here that I really do like and I think measure up to the best of the Strokes. And now the problem is about the rest of them. What do we think about the final to date album and the Strokes career?
- [127:25]
Then you did something wrong. You said it was great and now you don't know how you could ever complain because you are confused. Cuz you want me to, but then you want me to do the same as you.
- [128:02]
Chris Scalia
I like this album. Good. It is their most derivative album.
- [128:10]
Jeff Blair
That was where I figured the criticism might fall.
- [128:12]
Right.
- [128:13]
Chris Scalia
You know, everybody's pointing.
- [128:15]
Jeff Blair
When you're doing songs with Billy Idol, you know, it's kind of like that.
- [128:18]
Chris Scalia
Exactly. Like they. They give songwriting credits to Billy Idol in Bad Decisions, which is a great song. And as Scott pointed out to me yesterday, it's not just Billy Idol, it's. It's Dancing With Myself that the chorus rips off very much.
- [128:34]
Jeff Blair
But it's a great song to rip off.
- [128:36]
Chris Scalia
It's a great. And they also with the guitar melodies, rip off and tone, rip off, melt with You.
- [128:41]
Scott Bertram
Yes.
- [128:43]
Chris Scalia
And so it's a mashup of those two songs. I really like it. It's great. It's a. It's a fun song to sing along to.
- [128:49]
Jeff Blair
And I really want to hear mashup of two of my favorite early 80s, kind of like danceable pop hits.
- [128:54]
Yes.
- [128:54]
This is fine with me, too. I'm glad that you feel that.
- [129:01]
You. Moscow, 1972 always see it in my sleep I believe it in my dream I'm making bad decisions I Making bad decisions.
- [129:51]
Chris Scalia
And Jeff, I know you. You liked Eternal Summer because that's a ripoff of Psychedelic Furs Ghost in you.
- [129:59]
Jeff Blair
Absolutely.
- [129:59]
Chris Scalia
And. But I. I really like that song as well. And the other standout track for me is Brooklyn Bridge to chorus. Another pretty strong kind of. It actually kind of opens like a 90s dance song.
- [130:16]
Scott Bertram
It's Pet Shop Boys.
- [130:18]
Jeff Blair
Yes.
- [130:18]
Chris Scalia
Is that what you think it is?
- [130:19]
Scott Bertram
Absolutely.
- [130:20]
Jeff Blair
That's what I have in my notes is Pet Shop Boys. We did our show on them. Not, you know.
- [130:24]
Chris Scalia
Yeah.
- [130:24]
Jeff Blair
One shot is never enough I just wait for us to go in circles Lifetime of giving up oh, you must stop Give me a break don't say something. And we lost my way I want new friends but that I want me making friends While maybe it's me I.
- [131:07]
Chris Scalia
Want new friends and then the adults are talking. They're always so good with their opening tracks, and this is no exception. Fab is back with his really precise, precise guitars. Julian whispering the vocals, and light, kind of creepy guitars. It's. It's more of a haunting song than a rocking song. But the great interplay between the guitars is back. And I really. There's some great lines of Julian's that I just like saying it and singing along with and saying it random times. Like maybe not tonight as he does in this one towards the end. So there are a lot of. And a lot of these songs are longer than their typical songs.
- [131:45]
Scott Bertram
Oh, yeah.
- [131:45]
Chris Scalia
Over five minutes.
- [131:46]
Scott Bertram
But more than half. For over five minutes.
- [131:48]
Jeff Blair
I don't actually hear it this time. I don't feel that way.
- [131:50]
Chris Scalia
Because you know what?
- [131:51]
Jeff Blair
They're actually. They're throwing enough ideas into the songs of those lengths to make it worth it. You know, in my notes, I'm thinking about. You know, it's not just. It's a song like the adults are talking, right, where you have this wonderful little, like, melody line. And then all of a sudden, he goes into a falsetto. And this is the note that I had earlier where I was, like, saying his falsetto actually really becomes impress. Not in that sort of principal way where it's like, wow, he could be singing in the Temptations, but. But he. That falsetto was well deployed in that song. And it makes it. It's. It's adult. It's. It's well calibrated, it's well used. It's. It's, to me, sort of like the proof of this band's, like, continuing relevance. I still actually want to hear what they're going to do if they can still do music like that.
- [132:43]
Me, I know it's not this. I don't want anymore. It's not for you.
- [133:26]
Chris Scalia
I also really like why Sunday? Why are Sunday so depressing?
- [133:30]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [133:30]
Chris Scalia
After a few synth songs, it's nice to have the. The guitars come back and then. And Julian's vocal range is really good. I don't think the album ends well. I'll let Scott address that ending.
- [133:44]
Scott Bertram
Well, it's weird.
- [133:46]
Jeff Blair
Fans here.
- [133:46]
Scott Bertram
I'm gonna address it.
- [133:47]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [133:47]
Scott Bertram
I have to. I'm gonna address it in two different ways because I. Of all of the album, my favorites come at the end. But let me. I'll return to that in a minute. So I think it's. I think it's good, but I'm not convinced. And here's why. Rick Rubin produces.
- [134:05]
Chris Scalia
Yeah, I should have. Should have mentioned that. Sorry, Scott, can I say real quick.
- [134:10]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [134:10]
Chris Scalia
When I found out Rick Rubin was producing it, I thought, wow, Are the Strokes really that far gone? That they didn't.
- [134:17]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, exactly. Dinosaur axe. Right. But then I. Johnny Cash.
- [134:21]
Chris Scalia
I did the math. And. And Tom Petty had been at it for about as long when Rick Rubin did Wildflowers.
- [134:28]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. Yeah.
- [134:29]
Chris Scalia
So that just shows the Strokes are old.
- [134:31]
Scott Bertram
So Rick Rubin has a.
- [134:33]
Jeff Blair
Let's say they were my age. I realized that Julian Casablancas is literally 45 years old. Yeah.
- [134:39]
Scott Bertram
Reuben has this tendency to encourage his artist to. Or at least not. Not dismiss his artists from borrowing parts of other songs.
- [134:50]
Chris Scalia
Yes.
- [134:51]
Scott Bertram
In. You know, famously, the Jayhawks riff for now, blanket on the song. But the JH riff was recycled both by Tom Petty for Mary Jane's Last Dance and then again by Red Hot Chili Peppers for, I think down in California.
- [135:06]
Chris Scalia
And we've talked about this, too. He also had Tom Petty rip off a. A Cheap Trick riff for a song. I can't remember which one.
- [135:14]
Scott Bertram
Right.
- [135:14]
Chris Scalia
We have to sort through our notes to find that.
- [135:16]
Jeff Blair
So.
- [135:16]
Scott Bertram
So. So I. So my point. Point there is inadvertently. I didn't do this on purpose. There's nine songs, seven of them. I have notes that they're lifting Stuff from other artists. So Brooklyn Bridge's Pet Shop Boys. Clearly the opening of that bad decision is Billy Idol. So much so they give him a writing credit. And the Cure. Eternal Summer I heard Casablancas, his vocals trying to do Isaac Brock from Modest Mouse. I mean very, very at the Doors. Radiohead. Not the same anymore. A song I like. A song I like a lot, actually. I think it's successful. But to me that's everything Wilco did post Bennett for about a decade shoved into a single song. So it's got a little ghost is born. It's got a little sky blue sky. It's got some of the next album or two, all them like this synthesizing to a single song. I think it works, but that's what I hear.
- [136:13]
Jeff Blair
And now it's time to show up Late again I can't grow up and now it's on me They've given up Uncle's house I forget Violent tendencies I get your timing sucks she went overboard don't forget you are insured But I didn't know I wasn't so caring Remember all that well I couldn't change my was too late.
- [137:13]
Scott Bertram
And then Ode to the Mets ends the last 30, 40 seconds or so. That play out lifts the melody from radio Gaga from Queen. Radio was new radio. Someone still loves you that's the way Ode to the Mets end. So like seven of the nine songs here have melodies, parts lifted, borrowed, or seven. I got seven.
- [137:34]
Jeff Blair
How about eight? I. I was just doing this before we went on the air. I mean, let me contribute the extra one, which is the one I think you identified as one of your favorites on the record. Not the same anymore. That is basically John Lennon's I'm losing you off a double fantasy. The verses are identical chord progressions. The melody is a little bit changed. Obviously Julian Casablancas isn't seeing that same line, but it's that. And of course, that song, ironically enough, was first worked up by Cheap Band that. Yeah, Chris first. Does first joined us and we might have even discussed it back then.
- [138:09]
Yeah.
- [138:10]
There are a lot of cues taken from other artists.
- [138:12]
Scott Bertram
A lot. So that's why I can't be so sure. I can't be. I can't be confident in my evaluation of this record because so much of it reminds me of other people and other things that it's now been. What are we going on? 6 years in 2026 since this came out. And that's the last piece of music, the last statement we have from the band. And I don't Know if it's a good way to end or a slightly embarrassing way to end that all these ideas are coming from other places. When it plays, it sounds good, but I'm not sure the legacy it leaves is exactly ideal.
- [138:41]
Chris Scalia
And I'm sure At the Door rips off another melody. It's such a familiar melody.
- [138:46]
Scott Bertram
You told me that.
- [138:47]
Chris Scalia
And I can't figure. I'm sorry, I can't place it, but it's on the tip of my ear. It struck me like a chord. I feel like it's a cheesy song.
- [138:58]
Scott Bertram
Whatever it is, but can't place it.
- [139:00]
Chris Scalia
It yet. It'll come to me.
- [139:02]
Jeff Blair
Sounds like Eyes Without a Face to me.
- [139:03]
Chris Scalia
Oh, yeah, that's might be. I think it's helpful to remember that this came out during COVID and the title, the New Abnormal. I don't know if it's an intentional Covid reference, but I think one of the reasons I like this album as much as I do is, again, contextual. It was a bright spot at a pretty bleak time.
- [139:28]
Jeff Blair
Pretty dark year.
- [139:29]
Chris Scalia
Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, we clung to anything, whether it was Tiger King or. Or this album, but this album, I think, ages better. So. And this was. This was the only Strokes album. Not only. Not only the only Strokes album to win a Grammy, but the only. Only Strokes album to even be nominated for one.
- [139:53]
Jeff Blair
I call that the Jethro Toll Memorial.
- [139:55]
Chris Scalia
I was just gonna make that joke. Damn it.
- [139:57]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [139:58]
Chris Scalia
Get me to it. Yeah, but they. They. They won the Grammy for, I think, best album for this. And they performed a couple songs on SNL from this album that Scott didn't think was good enough to merit best live performance on his. On his other podcast.
- [140:15]
Scott Bertram
Sorry.
- [140:16]
Jeff Blair
Seems like Scott tipped his hand long ago. Listen, I'm gonna tell you, there's nothing wrong with this album. I mean, that's the thing, you know, Scott's. Scott's very, very interesting take on this, I think is. Is probably the best way to critique it. It' influence this stuff already. Sounds like it's the same stew that we've had many times before, and without the kind of novelty that Strokes originally brought to their first few albums. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it, though. Like, it's fun enough to listen to.
- [140:45]
Chris Scalia
They're obviously. They're obviously talented musicians, and, you know, they. They are able to stretch beyond what they did before.
- [140:53]
Jeff Blair
I mean, Come Down Machine is the only time I've ever felt bored with the Strokes.
- [140:57]
Chris Scalia
Well, see, that one.
- [140:58]
Jeff Blair
That one, to me, actually felt like I'm Kind of getting my time wasted. This. I'm still into it. I don't think it's even over long at 45 minutes. It's. It's very derivative. That, that, that much I can grant.
- [141:10]
Chris Scalia
I, I think the last two songs are too long. They're both. Ode to the Mets is nearly six minutes. And it's. And, and it was written in response to a Mets playoff loss. And as much as I like the Mets falling apart, six Minutes is too long.
- [141:26]
Jeff Blair
They do that every year, man. They just did that this year. My favorite. We read about the Mets disappointing us. They'll be doing that for the end of time.
- [141:34]
Chris Scalia
Right. And then not the same anymore. That. That song just kind of bores me a little bit.
- [141:39]
Jeff Blair
It's a good song. It is overlong, but I like. The only problem I have with it, of course, is that, yeah, it's a John Lennon song.
- [141:45]
Chris Scalia
Yeah.
- [141:47]
Jeff Blair
Scott, before you wrap, what do you think?
- [141:49]
Scott Bertram
That's it. I got nothing more to say about that record.
- [141:51]
Jeff Blair
All right.
- [141:52]
Well, then that, I think would bring us technically, at least, to the end of the Strokes career. Although, who knows?
- [141:59]
Scott Bertram
That's right. It could be something to do. And there's been a 10 for bands to release new stuff right after we end up covering them, so.
- [142:06]
Chris Scalia
That's right.
- [142:06]
Scott Bertram
Something in 2026, for sure.
- [142:08]
Jeff Blair
Curse of Political Beats. But we somehow managed to make it no matter what.
- [142:11]
Scott Bertram
All right, it's the time of the episode where we give you the two albums you should own the five songs you need to hear from the Strokes. Christopher Scalia goes first. Senior fellow at AEI in the book 13 novels conservatives will love but probably haven't read. Chris, your two albums and your five.
- [142:28]
Chris Scalia
Songs, was it two albums or three albums?
- [142:31]
Jeff Blair
Two. Oh, gosh.
- [142:34]
Chris Scalia
Well, that's, that's.
- [142:35]
Jeff Blair
Oh, no. What a disaster. Hey, listen, here's what you can do. You can mention two and you can actually just sort of.
- [142:41]
Chris Scalia
Well, let's combine Is this It? And Room on Fire as one album. Because it would still be just like 70 minutes if you combine that as one album.
- [142:50]
Jeff Blair
Where you're going with this entire theme, by the way I see it, I think it's.
- [142:55]
Chris Scalia
Without a doubt they're their two. Two best albums are their two. Two first albums.
- [142:59]
Jeff Blair
Is this what's your, what's your. What's your bonus third?
- [143:02]
Chris Scalia
And my bonus third is Come Down Machine. I, I, I just like the songs on it more than you guys do. I think it would. It would for me, the third one would come down to Come Down Machine or Angles and yeah, Come Down Machine's the winner for me. I just think it's. It's. It doesn't. It's Best isn't as good, but I think it's the more consistent album. And I said I'm willing to acknowledge that there's probably some subjective or nostalgic bias there, but. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Five songs are, in no particular order, going to go with Hard to Explain Reptilia cliche as it is Last Night, Undercover Of Darkness, and All the Time Scott.
- [144:00]
Scott Bertram
All right, my two albums, I meant to mention this way back when, an hour ago, didn't get a chance. I think Room on Fire is the better record than the debut. So Room on Fire is certainly one. And because I'm pretty sure Jeff's gonna tell you that the debut, I think Angles is really worth checking out, especially for a look at sort of the back half of the career. So we're on fire. Angles. I will take two songs for that debut, Someday and the Modern Age, which Jeff doesn't like, but Chris and I do. So Someday in the Modern Age. Modern Age from the first record, Reptilia and Under Control from Room on Fire. And that leaves just one. And. Let's go with let's Go Dart. Let's go with the Closer and say Life Is simple in the Moonlight. That's the. That's the fifth song I'll choose.
- [144:58]
Chris Scalia
Nice, by the way. My wife I mentioned was what she claims to be a bigger Strokes fan than I am. She wanted to contribute her top five picks. Picks. She said she couldn't. Couldn't choose just two albums, but she could choose five. Five songs. So Adele's top five stroke songs are Modern Age, Under Control, you Only Live Once, Life Is simple in the moonlight, and Happy Ending. So none of. I have no overlap with her.
- [145:29]
Jeff Blair
Well, I will say this, unlike all of you people, I did my pick scientifically, not irrationally. And like I usually got into the podcast point of doing it, this time I picked the top two albums are clearly Is this It? And Room on Fire. Therefore I don't have to spend any time with the songs on those albums. You should hear all of them. It's a really consistent set of records. So as for my top five songs, they all come from the rest of the Strokes career and Just a troll, Chris, I know this bugs him, but ask me anything from First Impressions of Earth, which, yes, is unstrokes like as the song is. I think it's a beautiful melody. I think it's maybe it goes on a little bit too long. Maybe, maybe he, he, he, he. He basically spends four and a half minutes saying he has nothing to say. But I like that song. Then from the reunion, so to speak of angles. I really love the back to back punch of Undercover, of Darkness and Two Kinds of Happiness. In fact, I'd say that the guitar attack on Two Kinds of Happiness is the best of the late period Strokes. I talk about them as late period because I'm just assuming that, yeah, nobody's ever going to do anything again, but if they're not, then we have to actually end with, you know, a really good song from the new Abnormal, which is the Adult, a fantastic opening track. I love the falsetto that Julian Casablanca sings with the guitars, that duet at the end. They've gotten to that nice little trick in their late career. Or one of them sounds a bit like a keyboard and not like a guitar. Gives their sound a little bit of spice. And again, host prerogative, I will kind of cheat on this and I will end with when it started, a song that isn't really on the debut album at all. It's only added to the later version that I bought as a kid. And the irony is, is that the late Ed addition to is this. It is a song that I consider still to be the quintessential Stroke song. The quintessential Strokes chorus. Everything about their early energy, that early fire that made people actually believe just for a moment, these guys might actually be the ones to save rock and roll.
- [148:03]
Because it's free.
- [148:11]
Scott Bertram
There we go, the political beats. Look at the music and career of the Strokes. We thank our guest, Chris Scalia, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, author of 13 novels Conservatives will love but probably haven't read. A perfect Christmas gift for your favorite person. Whether it's this Christmas or a future Christmas, it still works. Chris, thanks so much for joining us here. Third time here on the program.
- [148:35]
Chris Scalia
Thank you guys for having me. This was fun.
- [148:37]
Scott Bertram
Appreciate it. Jeff. 2025 comes to a close.
- [148:41]
Jeff Blair
Our last Merry Christmas, everybody.
- [148:43]
Chris Scalia
Merry Christmas.
- [148:44]
Scott Bertram
Yes, Merry Christmas. Have a wonderful new year. As 2026 begins, we've got a few things. I don't think we have anything definitively lined up, but a lot of options for the beginning of 2020.
- [148:55]
Jeff Blair
We'll figure it out. We're going to enjoy our Christmas meals and sort of relax on the couch, watch football.
- [149:01]
Scott Bertram
We'll get a read.
- [149:02]
Chris Scalia
If if listeners want to celebrate Christmas in a stroke style, or at least Julian Casablanca style, be sure to check out his version of the SNL song Christmas Time is Here. He recorded that a few years ago. It's pretty. Pretty great, actually.
- [149:19]
Scott Bertram
There you go. Our recommendation to you Remastered episode coming early January. Our Funeral for a Friend episode. Looking back on people we lost in 2025 is in January as well, so stick around. Much more to come if you want to hear those shows. Patreon People patreon.com Politicalbeat Support Us Help the show stay ad free. Get access to stuff there. Subscribe for new episodes, Apple podcasts, or check out the show@nationalreview.com we're on Facebook. We're on Twitter X as well. Oiticalbeats this has been a presentation of National Review. This is Political Beats.