Episode 156: Jack Butler / The Apples in Stereo

Summary

Political Beats, Episode 156: Jack Butler / The Apples in Stereo

National Review | April 3, 2026
Hosts: Scot Bertram (@ScotBertram) & Jeff Blehar (@EsotericCD)
Guest: Jack Butler (Deputy Editor, Free Expression, Wall Street Journal) (@Butler48154815)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Political Beats dives deep into the discography and musical legacy of The Apples in Stereo, a key band from the indie pop "Elephant 6" collective. Returning guest Jack Butler—converted to the band by co-host Scot Bertram—joins to explore Apples’ blend of lo-fi beginnings, psychedelic pop, power pop, ELO/Beach Boys/Beatles homages, and songwriting evolution. The panel discusses how the band’s earnest eccentricity, vibrant creativity, and shifting production values forged a unique, underrated pop universe.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions & Guest Context

• Jack Butler plugs his new Wall Street Journal newsletter, Free Expression, and reveals how he discovered the Apples in Stereo—through Elephant 6 adjacent bands and a recommendation from Scot Bertram.
  • “He’s an odd guy, but in the way you want a musician to be.” – Jack on Robert Schneider (12:31)

2. Elephant 6: Origins and Ethos ([29:28])

• Jack outlines the Elephant 6 collective, whose permeability led to intense cross-pollination between bands like Apples, Neutral Milk Hotel, and Olivia Tremor Control.
  • “The real origin story…it’s fitting it’s like a cracked version of Paul McCartney and John Lennon.” (31:08)
• The Apples' formation traces to early bonds between Robert Schneider and Jeff Mangum as kids, with later connections via math camp and chance encounters.
• Apples’ name references Pink Floyd’s “Apples and Oranges”; “in stereo” nods to 60s TV audio.

3. Band Members & Dynamics

• Robert Schneider: Main songwriter, driving force, math professor, earnest and genuinely eccentric (24:58).
• Hilary Sidney: Drummer and key vocalist; praised for her energetic, capable drumming and unique vocal texture.
• Inter-band Collaborations/Fluid Membership: Members often played across Elephant 6 bands.

4. Personal “Gateway” Songs/Albums

• Jack: “Told You Once”—immediately addictive (10:45), introduction via Political Beats archive.
• Scot: “Go”—instantly hooked, led to discovery of Discovery of a World Inside the Moone.
• Jeff: Assigned the band as "homework," rapidly became a pleasure (22:31). Initially unfamiliar, compared the experience to discovering ELO for a previous episode.

“Some of these songs are going to end up among my favorite songs of all time.” – Jeff (22:31)

5. Musical Influences/Stylistic DNA

• Immediate references: ELO, Beach Boys (esp. Smile era), Beatles (“picking up where ELO left off”), Pavement, The Kinks, Monkees, XTC (notably the Dukes of Stratosphear), Guided By Voices, Flaming Lips, My Bloody Valentine.
• Lyrics: Often considered “cotton candy” but hosts/guest defend their subtle substance, earnestness, and off-kilter honesty (19:54).

6. Album-by-Album Breakdown

Science Fair (Early EPs: Tidal Wave / Hypnotic Suggestion) ([37:41])

• Historical curiosities; lo-fi to a fault, “recorded in a tissue box”; songwriting embryonic but shows flashes.

Fun Trick Noisemaker (1995) ([42:48])

• “5 out of 10, 6 out of 10” – formative, too busy and sonically cluttered, but hints of melodic future and clever lyricism.
• Standouts: “Tidal Wave”, “Lucky Charm”, “Inner Space”, “Pine Away” (album closer praised for ruminative weather, 53:53).

Tone Soul Evolution (1997) ([55:47])

• Marked sonic leap; “clean jangle pop,” horns, dynamic range.
• “From the very first notes…a substantial and noticeable tonal shift.” – Jeff (57:05)
• Favorites: “Shine A Light” (“positivity … just a great little pop song”), “Tin Pan Alley” (Monkees/Kinks homage), “Try to Remember” (simple, 60s-tinged sadness), “Silver Chain” (Hilary vocal spotlight), “Find Our Way”.

Her Wallpaper Reverie (1999) ([73:39])

• 15 tracks/27 mins, really only ~7 full songs. Tightly connected by playful interludes, conceptual coherence.
• “Strawberry Fire”: “Like a slowed down version of Norwegian Wood” (76:47); powerful, pulse-driven.
• “Questions and Answers”: Hilary-centric, aching melody, “refused to leave my side for three weeks” (84:03).
• “Y2K”: Mocking, carnivalesque, toy piano, topical for its time (79:24).
• Hosts highlight layers beneath “fun” surface, especially complex relationship-laden lyrics and emotional undertow.

The Discovery of a World Inside the Moone (2000) ([86:57])

• “This is a masterpiece.” – Jeff (86:57)
• Shift to raw, live energy and more R&B strut (90:22), notably on “The Bird That You Can’t See”.
• Sequence Go → “The Rainbow” → “Stream Running Over” forms a hyper-melodic run.
• Multiple strong Hilary tracks; blend of hope and bittersweetness; inventive use of handclaps, cowbell, and lyrical metaphors (98:39).

Powerpuff Girls – “Let’s Go” ([101:32])

• Band’s most streamed song, known to many from the cartoon, maintained their playful, energetic touch.
  • “If people are aware of the Apples in Stereo, it might be from this.” – Scot

Velocity of Sound (2002) ([104:17])

• Speedy, loud, lean: “relentlessly loud and fast and distorted and it will not stop” (104:25).
• Slightly generic but fun, some standouts (“Baroque,” “Rainfall”), but “a rough listen if you sit down for 27 minutes”—works best as high-energy background (113:53).

New Magnetic Wonder (2007) ([115:50])

• The panel’s consensus pick for magnum opus (Scot’s favorite album of the 2000s).
• Immaculate sequencing, science themes (energy, radiation, drag).
• “It’s a journey that moves you emotionally and physically.” – Scot (139:56)
• Relationship drama between Robert and Hilary at the heart (Sanddal Song / Play Tough juxtaposition).
• “Beautiful Machine” (1–4): Wistful, Beatlesque, Flaming Lips vibes, rumored as songs to/for/about Hilary or a more general character.
  • “There’s a lot more happening here than people might think with Schneider’s lyrics.” (82:15)
• Linking tracks/interludes enhance cohesion.
• “This is where ELO influence really takes precedent.” (144:25)

Electronic Projects for Musicians (compilation) ([145:29])

• “B-sides and outtakes that are all worth your time.”
• Highlights: “The Apple’s Theme Song”, “Dreams”, “Stephen, Stephen” (Colbert feud pop).

Travelers in Space and Time (2010) ([148:41])

• Final studio album; ELO/Time-era love letter, “pure pop for now people.”
• “If this is a time capsule for future listeners, I hope they think this is what all of our music sounded like.” – Jack (149:38)
• Standout: “Told You Once” (Jack's conversion moment—“everything and the kitchen sink and it all stuck” 152:55), “Hey Elevator” (space disco, Timberlake-esque chorus), “Dream About the Future,” “Nobody But You” (Bacharach vibes), “Wings Away” (valedictory, Elephant 6 tribute).
• Loss of Hilary shifts vocal dynamics and increases Schneider's vocoder reliance (167:15).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Robert Schneider’s eccentricity isn’t affectation. It’s thoroughly honest.” – Jeff ([24:58])
• “The Apples are such a fun band…you probably don’t know them, haven’t heard of them. Our mission today is to make you love them.” – Scot ([19:54])
• “I don’t think any song I’ve heard in the past decade has lodged itself as firmly in my head as ‘Told You Once.’” – Jack ([10:45])
• “It was homework that became a hobby—always happens for the best Political Beats episodes.” – Jeff ([22:31])
• “You hear all those influences in their stuff. It’s amazing.” – Jeff on the failed attempt to combine Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Beach Boys, Sabbath, Pavement ([36:43])
• “Her wallpaper reverie—such a suggestive title, like a girl dreaming herself into another world. That’s what this album really sounds like.” – Jeff ([73:47])
• “It might only be seven songs, but they’re seven of the best in the Apples’ career.” – Jeff on Her Wallpaper Reverie ([86:35])
• “If you don’t like it, just wait five minutes, it’ll be over.” – Jack on Velocity of Sound ([112:11])
• “I want you to know you’ve created stuff I really enjoy. In this universe, Number One Hits Explosion is an ironic title, but in the universe you created, all these songs would be hits.” – Jack ([174:31])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Context: [00:06–05:35]
• Jack’s Apples Discovery Story: [06:11–12:42]
• Band Ethos/Why the Love?: [12:42–19:52]
• Jeff’s “Homework” Entry: [22:31]
• Elephant 6 Backstory: [29:28–34:18]
• Band Formation & Dynamics: [34:18–36:48]
• Early EPs & Lo-Fi Years: [37:41–41:40]
• First Two Albums (Fun Trick Noisemaker, Tone Soul Evolution): [42:48–69:05]
• Her Wallpaper Reverie: [73:39–86:35]
• Discovery of a World Inside the Moone: [86:57–101:26]
• Powerpuff Girls & Cultural Moment: [101:32–104:17]
• Velocity of Sound Discussion: [104:17–114:49]
• New Magnetic Wonder Deep Dive: [115:50–144:41]
• Electronic Projects for Musicians/Colbert: [145:29–148:41]
• Travelers in Space and Time: [148:41–167:12]
• Discography Wrap-Up & Top Picks: [167:12–174:31]
• Outro & Farewell: [175:37–End]

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Panel’s “Two Albums, Five Songs” Picks

Jack Butler

• Albums: Her Wallpaper Reverie, Travelers in Space and Time
• Songs: “Pine Away,” “Seems So,” “Go,” “Same Old Drag/Joanie Don't You Worry,” “Told You Once”

Scot Bertram

• Albums: New Magnetic Wonder, Discovery of a World Inside the Moone
• Songs: “Shine a Light,” “Questions and Answers,” “Stream Running Over,” “Baroque,” “Dream About the Future”

Jeff Blehar

• Albums: Her Wallpaper Reverie, Discovery of a World Inside the Moone
• Songs: “Shine Inside Your Mind,” “Try to Remember,” “Energy,” “Beautiful Machine” (all parts), “Hey Elevator”

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Closing Thoughts

The episode celebrates The Apples in Stereo as a band of boundless pop invention—sometimes shambolic, always earnest—whose music rewards both close attention and casual joy. Their catalog remains underappreciated but endlessly rich. As Jack says: “In the universe Schneider created, all these songs would be #1 hits.”

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Listen if you like…

• Power-pop, psychedelic pop, indie “collective” scenes, lo-fi charm, meticulously-crafted pop albums with brainy underpinnings, the sound of pop optimism tinged with bittersweet philosophy.

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Want to sample quickly?

Start with “Go,” “Told You Once,” “Strawberry Fire,” “Shine a Light,” or “Questions and Answers.” For deep dives, play New Magnetic Wonder and Her Wallpaper Reverie start to finish.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello again everybody and welcome into another edition of Political Beats, a presentation of National Review. Find us on X at PoliticalBeats. We're also over on Facebook and you can subscribe to our feed for new episodes through Apple Podcasts or other services. Or go right to nationalreview.com click the podcast tab, listen there, leave reviews where possible, help others find the show and we ask you to join us at our patreon page. That's patreon.com politicalbeats support the show, help it stay ad free as it has been. We have entry level for your support and some voting privileges time to time mid level for early access to our shows and you get them at a higher audio quality. Always nice with the music clips and our upper level best friends early access, higher audio quality. More monthly exclusive content, episodes, remastered episodes from old times, playlists and much more. All of [e-mail] politicalbeats now the part of the episode where we thank some of our Patreon supporters specifically and individually. Some new supporters have jumped on board including Steve Roman and Dan Engbretson. And some long time people are still with us. We love you guys like Dave Hogg, just Carl, Dan Goldbeck, Michael o', Connor, Pat Moroose, Victor Naring, Jonathan Wells, Jeremy B, Michael Buchanan. Thank you all for helping us [e-mail] politicalbeats hey there, my name is Scott Bertram. Find me on xcottbertram, my tag team partner standing by as always, Jeff Blair. How are you?

[C]

I'm fairly restless, you know. You know that feeling like when the people that you know act like monkeys in a row, you know you want to go right? So like let's just blow this ugly, ugly, ugly little world.

[B]

Jeff is over on X at Esoteric CD and we welcome back a return guest. Jack Butler is with us. He's deputy editor for Free Expression, a fantastic new newsletter about politics and culture from the Wall Street Journal opinion page. You can subscribe and get it in your inbox every single morning. Previously Submissions editor over at National Review Online. You can see him on XButler 481-54815. Unless you're a 2:30 marathoner, he says you probably can't follow him in real life unless he lets you. I am not a marathoner. I am not running unless a bear is chasing me. Jack enjoys it. He's enjoying us too. He's back. Hey Jack, how are you?

[D]

I'm doing well, Scott. I'm happy to be back on the show. Although I have to say returning does make Me feel a little old. I think the last time I was here was episode 50, and I don't even want to know what episode this is now. I am happy to be here. I'm not sure I'm as happy to be here as you are, as we'll get into in a bit, but I'm happy nonetheless.

[B]

So first, tell people about the newish gig over at the Wall Street Journal and more about first free expression, which I admit I read every single morning in my inbox.

[C]

As do I, and nobody's making me. It's just fun.

[D]

Yeah. Free expression is a relatively new project of the Wall Street Journal opinion page. It was started in the theory that there was some stuff going on in the culture and I guess in politics as well, that the Journal's opinion pages, as August as they are, were not covering or not covering as much. So I started to hear at the Journal last October, and the newsletter launched in mid December, and we've been going strong since then with all sorts of wild and crazy stuff that you may not always expect to be in the Wall Street Journal opinion page, but there it is in free expression. So please subscribe if you can. Scott and Jeff say they like it, and they're the hosts of Political Beats. If you're listening to their voices, then you must trust them. So trust them on this, too.

[B]

Yeah, it's good. And it has been from the beginning. And it's a. It's. It's a morning read, as is. As is Jeff's column.

[C]

I mean, obviously I'm gonna like it too, because it's just like, right up my alley in terms of the way it's themed. You know, these kind of funny or more absurd or maybe just a cultural observation.

[B]

Except for Matt's ridiculously awful opinion about baseball, modern baseball from earlier in this week.

[C]

I didn't see that one.

[B]

You know, these. These kids today and their numbers. Jeff, it's just not fun anymore. Baseball should be based on feel and what the manager's gut is telling him because he had something bad for lunch. And that's what baseball should be. I like Matt.

[C]

Right?

[B]

I like Matt, but that's not. That's not the way I feel about baseball. That's a different show.

[C]

That's a great way to lose baseball games. That's really the answer.

[B]

It's a different show for a different time. Jack's not here to talk about baseball. Jack's here to talk about fruit, in a way. And music. Our. Our artist today, the band we feature today, the Apples in Stereo. Jack, tell us how you found out about the band, why you like them so much, and why other people should care about this music we're going to talk about today.

[A]

Arms go out makes me feel down. Take.

[D]

Oh gosh, Scott, this is a story that you already know part of, because you are the author of the story in a certain sense. But there's a little more to it than you're aware of, because I was actually a fan of some of these bands that were adjacent to, alongside the Apples in Stereo in this thing called Elephant Six, which is a musical collective that is a bit more than a record label and a bit less than a commune. I'll go into a little bit more detail about what Elf and Six is in a few minutes here, but I think I became a fan of the first Elf and Six project that I was aware of when I read an article in Clickhole of all things I built. Disgusting. ISIS just released a two star review of in the Airplane over the Sea. So this was released a decade ago.

[C]

It's a legendary headline.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I. I didn't even know what in the Airplane over the Sea was at the time, but I was reading Clickhole pretty faithfully. And so this, this, this article, which was released at the height of ISIS atrocities, includes such lines as Imagining ISIS writing a review of this legendary late 90s lo fi indie folk album by a band called Neutral Milk Hotel. It includes such lines in the voice of ISIS as. It's hard to see how NMH came to be the twee pop band of choice for an entire generation of uninspired scenesters. So we were talking before the show actually recorded that. I think this proves Jeff is a member of isis, because he's not,

[B]

he's

[D]

not as keen on it as I am. But anyway, I became, I got into. This was my entry point into the Elephant Six extended universe. I also became a fan of Olivia Tremor Control, another band in that universe. And somehow. So to make Jeff feel a little better, I actually now understand how he can have, by his own admission, some of these bizarre musical lacunae where you know everything about a certain genre or certain type of band. And then somehow there's this giant gap and for me, that was the Apples in Stereo here. Here's this. Probably one of the standout bands of what Elephant 6 is. And I had no idea that they even existed until Scott came into the picture and this happened. I would say it feels like it was yesterday. It wasn't quite yesterday, but it wasn't that long ago.

[B]

I Bet it was three years ago. I bet years ago.

[D]

It was the Saturday before Thanksgiving, 2023, and I was driving back on I75 south in Ohio. I was passing the Austin Boulevard exit, and I had just subscribed to the Political Beats Patreon and I was going through the archive. I promise people, this is actually part of the story. This is not just an ad for the Patreon. And on some episodes, Scott decides to excerpt Strawberry Fire and Energy from the Apples and Stereo. I don't even remember why he does this, but I liked both of the songs and they stuck with me. So I started looking around, trying to find out, okay, what else did this band do? And as I often do in these cases, I looked to the people. So I went to Spotify and looked for the Apples and Stereo songs that had the most streams on the logic that, well, if I don't like the absolutely most popular song of this band, then their chances are slim. Not zero, but slim, that anything else will appeal to me. And that is how I found Told you'd Once, which I will go into greater detail about later. But man, that song. I don't think any song released in the past or not released in the past 10 years, but that I've heard in the past decade has lodged itself as firmly in my head as Told you once,

[A]

Told you once. What do you do to your baby? What do you do? I hear her cry she's so lonely you make her cry why do you treat her bad? Why do you treat her?

[D]

I listened to it 10 or 20 times that first sitting. And then I listened to the whole rest of that album, Travelers in Space and Time. And this goes back to my first appearance on Political Beats, because John Lennon said about elo, Electric Light Orchestra, the band I talked about the first time I was here, that they were picking up where the Beatles left off with Walrus and Travelers in Space and Time was as though a band was picking up where ELO left off with Time. But there's way more to the Apples and Stereo than some kind of ELO tribute band. Although that doesn't hurt for me as your former ELO guest. But I became like a traveler in space and time. Working through this band's discography, I almost went through in exact reverse order and found a whole lot to like. I found a whole lot of other bands in the Apples and Stereo's music. And because they existed in this kind of pocket universe that I was unaware of, I didn't bother to figure out really who was influencing whom, like who Owes inspiration to whom, in what order it was released. I was just happy to know that there was a whole bunch of other bands that were running through in a sort of Billy Pilgrim, Unstuck in Time way, the Apples and Stereo, as well as a whole bunch of unique stuff that the band itself offered. There's a tremendous amount of energy in these, in these songs. There's. In some songs, I suppose there's irony, but a lot of it is very earnest, but in an off kilter way. Robert Schneider, kind of the Jeff Lynn of the Apples, really the driving force behind the band. He's an odd guy, but in the way that you want a musician.

[A]

Thrill seekers loudspeakers calling out voices in my head Distractions overt reactions Falling out through spaces in mind that I tell myself I'm doing fine.

[D]

He's the sort of guy who can get away with, for example, making a theme song for a band. And you, you, you like the theme song. You don't think it's a pretentious or outrageous thing to do? It's just a fun little thing. Unfortunately, it has one lyric that isn't really true, which is, you hear our records on the radio.

[C]

On the radio?

[D]

No, I was like, no, you don't. And we won't talk. There's. There's other theme songs that Apples did, one of which we, we is.

[C]

We're definitely gonna talk about these.

[D]

The other of which I don't. I don't know how I feel about it. But yeah, so that's how I got into the Apples. Now, Scott, would you like me to explain in greater depth what exactly Elephant 6 is? Or should I hold off on that

[B]

pause for a moment? Yeah, because Jeff and I actually have a few bits about the band first and then we'll tell people about Elephant Six.

[C]

Well, I think you should probably. Since you are apparently the criminal mastermind behind this entire operation, Scott, you should probably go first and reveal your plans. Are you actually an Apples and Stereo Mega fan and you've been orchestrating this thing, this, this podcast is what, years. Years in the making.

[D]

Now, his plans are measured in centuries, right?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Like the Catholic Church.

[B]

Yes, in fact. Yes. In fact, I reached out to Dick specifically and I don't remember if I planted the seed that he would come back and do the show, but I found a post on Twitter From I think 2022 where I was bemoaning the fact that it would be nearly impossible to find an Apples and Stereo cast. And somewhere around that time thought, especially considering the later stage of the band that, you know an ELO fan would probably really dig, Apples and Stereo. So I, you know. Do I know an ELO fan? I do know an ELO fan.

[C]

It just so happens, yeah, that's Jack Butler.

[B]

So I reached out to Jack and said, hey, do you know Apples and Stereo? Because I think you would really, really like them. And in fact, confirmed that he did like them some months later after giving them a try. And then the plan really moved into high gear when we said, all right, well, maybe we do a show about this little band, Apples and Stereo. So, yes, it's a plot, it's a plan, and I hope it all worked well for everyone involved. It worked well.

[C]

Explain your reasoning then, why it worked

[B]

well for me, because Apples and Stereo. This is one of the more straightforward stories I'll probably tell on this show about getting into a band. Like, there's. There's really no twists and turns. I remember that I heard Go. Go is the first Apples and Stereo song I ever heard. And in fact, if you were. If you've never heard the band before and wanted to start somewhere, you do a heck of a lot worse than to start with Go, which. Which is one of their great, great songs.

[A]

When you go into the place that you work you have no face don't you want to go, Go, baby Moment that you get, my baby and you get the evil eye from the people in this spot where you want to go Go, baby Moment that you get, baby. You're such a pre.

[B]

I heard Go and was hooked in a way from that very first time I heard the music. So I bought Discovery of a World Inside the Moon, and I had a problem which actually didn't resolve itself for quite literally years. The beginning of that album is so strong, I rarely made it past, like, six or seven tracks before I said, I want to hear those six songs again. Again. I never got to the. Never got to the end of the album for an awfully long time. My friend ended up putting a Baroque, which is a song from Velocity of Sound, on a mixtape at the end of the year was released. So that would have been what, 2001, I think we swapped CDs at the end of the year and with our favorite music. And he put Baroque on his mixtape for that year. And I love that track. And that got me inspired to go get Velocity of Sound as soon as possible. And that's a. That's an album I distinctly remember buying and listening to over and over. I was traveling at that point, lots back and forth from Chicago to Rockford, that 90 to 100 minutes and velocity sounds so short. I could listen to it four times on one trip from Chicago to Rockford. Lots of fun. And then the topper for me, the thing that, you know, cemented my deep love for the band was is this album that we'll spend approximately 8.4 hours on today, New Magnetic Wonder, which I've mentioned on so many special shows. I've mentioned so many times in posts and tweets on X. I won't go into it now, but I just absolutely love, Adore, hold this album close to my heart. It's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. But it's also one of those albums that not everyone gets. Like, if you look around and see reviews, it's like three and a half stars. Ah, 6.8. It's pretty good. And I have to look at those people and say, what is wrong with you? This is a perfect record. It's everything you should love about music in 50 minutes with these interstitial tracks. And it's just.

[D]

It's just brilliant.

[A]

40 times you may question your life Fortify with a hunting knife before you find out if you survive Questioning marks have turned into stars for the record you remember the few, yeah, Move for a second time you bit adieu. 40 days in the neon haze? Festering dreams all dressed in fakeries? You follow the skyway, you follow y' all right away. You follow the streets and the cars and the shadows and the stars.

[D]

So what did ISIS think of it?

[B]

You know, I didn't see their review. One star, One star. And then from there went back to the beginning. And then the final Apples and Stereo album as well, which is so much fun. Travelers in Space and Time, the one that Jack mentioned, so worked out from the middle to get back to the beginning and get all the way to the end. The Apples are such a fun band. Elo, Beach Boys, Smile, Beatles, Pavement, Guided By Voices, if you like those bands. There's elements of all of that and more inside Apples and Stereo music. And it changes and shifts a bit from era to era, album to album. But they're not afraid to do big, dumb, fun things too, like just crib the riff from Sunshine of youf Love from Cream and put it in a song, and it's fantastic. If there's a common critique of the band that I'm going to push back on a bit today, it's that Robert Schneider, who is the main songwriter, lyricist, leader of Appleton Stereo, you know, he can write great songs, but doesn't have much to Say, now, the lyrics, you know, they're just kind of fluffy. They don't mean much. I don't think that's true at all. Now, maybe he might not. He might not be as deep. He might not talk about love in the way that you might want people to talk about those sorts of topics. He's a really sharp lyricist, and there's more happening in a lot of these songs than perhaps meets the eye. Because you're so taken in by the cotton candy of the music and the production and the fun and kind of the power pop, Beach Boys vocal pads and all this stuff. And the lyrics are sort of deceptively important and deceptively interesting. And I'll point out a few of those things as we go along today. If you like music, you're gonna love Apples and Stereo. There's no way you can't. It is such a fun band. You probably, for the most part, don't know them, haven't heard of them. Our mission today is to make you love.

[A]

You know, I see a mystery between you and me with such clarity it flows me away. You know that we got history between you and me And I don't want to see us blown away. I'm out on a twisting highway Cat lamps and moonlight lies away I want to try and run through the night when you wake up, I'll be sleeping there.

[C]

And I think you're gonna love them by the time we're done with this, because I actually have an even simpler, you know, Scott, you said you had a simple story as to how you got into this band. Well, I have an even simpler one. I was assigned it as homework. I had never heard a note, not one note of anything Apples and Stereo ever did until about a month ago when we, you know, we booked the show. And I'm like, all right, now I do. What I usually do is I go to YouTube and I start assembling, like, a playlist, you know, which is everything they ever did order, that kind of a thing. And from that point onwards, homework became not homework. It became something, a hobby. It became the kind of thing that always happens on the best political beats. Episodes with an artist that's new to me is I just start listening to them for fun. Because once you get to a certain point, of course, their career, to me, is understood purely chronologically and, of course, obviously only fairly recently. So I don't have any of those memories or albums or anything like that. I've just discovered that there was this wonderful. This wonderful album called the Discovery of the World. Inside a Moon not too long ago. So my impressions, I always apologize when I'm in this situation. My impressions are going to be formative. This is the second time this has happened, with Jack Butler, no less. Because when we did elo, it was a similar situation where I actually knew like one or two of their songs, right. But really none of the substance of their career. I had never heard, you know, I'd never even heard, you know, such obvious songs as Telephone Line until we booked that episode. That's one of my favorite songs of all time. Now this is a similar situation where I had never heard any of this music. And some of these songs are going to probably end up among my favorite songs of all time, certainly from this era, which is the 90s and into the 2000s. There's just so much pop inventiveness going on behind the Apples and stereo. It was such a delight as I. These people, I know nothing about them. I come to them completely fresh. I just had to look up Rob Schneider and I was like the guy from Deuce Bigelow. And no, it's. I was like, now I'm thinking, boy, he gave up a much better career to go into that slot. But no, Rob Schneider is a guy who's just like a nerd. He looks like Mat Iglesias. He's bald with a beard. He's like as. And in fact, it was no surprise for me to find out that he's a math professor now. All right. I mean, he's actually like an academic and he has like an eccentric academics worldview. He sees the world in a slightly off kilter way. And it's not an affectation. It's not like, you know, his eccentricity is thoroughly honest.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's what makes the Apple's weirdness, aside from all the pop greatness, so, so fun because there's a spirit animating in it that just feels like you'd be an interesting guy to know.

[A]

And the world is made of energy and the world is electricity and the world is made of energy and there's a lot inside of you and there's a lot inside of me. And the world is made of energy and the world is synchronicity and the world is made of energy and there's a lot inside of you and there's a lot inside of me. It's gonna be all. It's going to be all right.

[C]

Yeah, Like a very quirky, interesting individual. And of course, there are more people on the Apples than just Rob Schneider. There's, of course, his ex wife, Hillary Sydney, who again, great drummer, I have to point out. Very, very perfect. Perfectly suited to the kinds of pop conceits they wanted to do. And I like her singing voice and I'm, I'm amused that you did not mention the one band that they sound the most like to me. They have all these influences, as you mentioned, Pavement, you know, the Beach Boys and Whatn. But it's XTC and boy, that's going to be relevant. You know, maybe in upcoming months.

[B]

We're going to reverse, reverse this very quickly because I know approximately as much about XTC as you did about Apples and Stereo.

[C]

So you're going to be shocked when you get to the Dukes, because this is very specifically influenced by Dukes of Stratosphere, which was an XTC side project. You know, the regular albums weren't selling and then these novelty records that they did, which were supposed to be in the style of 60s psychedelia and stuff like that, they actually got more airplay than XTC's own records and, and Apple's in Stereo. Like you can just listen to this and think they have. They have Chips from the Chocolate Fireball on their turntable, which is the compilation album that collects all that stuff together. And that's a wonderful set of influences to have. This music is going to be so melodic and so much fun to go through.

[A]

Strawberries Design in her mind Strawberries shine Her mind is aflame Open Window Pain.

[C]

So I want to just, you know, let you guys explain the backstory before we get there.

[B]

And I want to. I want to emphasize what Jeff said. Rarely has prepping for a show been this much fun.

[C]

Even the B sides are great. I mean, there's like the oddities, the rarities, they're all worth checking out.

[B]

All right. As we enter into the band, it's always fun to let the guests do the work. Jack Butler is going to lead us into a little discussion about the Elephant Six collective, because that influences both how and why the band is what it is. And Jack's actually read a book about this, so that's more research than I've done. Jack, tell us a bit about the environment. How did this all come to be?

[C]

Sure.

[D]

Thanks, Scott. So the book that I'm drawing from here is called Endless Endless by Adam Clare, which is focused on Neutral Milk Hotel and In the Airplane over the Sea. But you can't really tell the story of any of these bands without telling the story stories of every other band in what Elephant 6 is. So I'll stick to my description before of Elephant 6 being more than a record label and less than a commune. But I want to go even further back because we've mentioned some influences.

[C]

All high school buddies.

[D]

Yeah. Even more before high school. So you mentioned ELO influences, other influences. And it's sort of interesting to me that the real origin story of what Elephant 6 is, and therefore, ultimately what the apples are, goes back that far in a kind of Beatlesque way, but not really. It's fitting that it's like a cracked version of the fact that Paul McCartney and John Lennon knew each other as kids. So Jeff Magnum, the brains behind in the Airplane over the Sea, and Robert Schneider met each other as grade schoolers, essentially. And Robert Schneider, I think part of the reason he has this deeply earnest eccentricity is that he was. He spent the first few years of his life in South Africa and then moved to this place called Ruston, Louisiana. And he was, by his own admission, a weird kid. In fact, I think once we get to the first album, I think the song Lucky Charm is may sort of be about himself as a kid, well behaved, a little strange. And Jeff Magnum, on the playground of the school where they met, sees this weird kid, thinks he needs a friend, goes up to him, says, hey, I'd like to be your friend. And Robert Schneider essentially says, no and runs away. And little Jeff chases him around the playground. And Robert Schneider is afraid of him, think he's gonna beat him up. Eventually, Schneider gives up and they do become friends. And then there's another Elephant 6 guy, Will Cullen Hart, who meets Robert Schneider at a math camp. And at this camp, Schneider is bragging that he can play guitar to this girl. And then Will Cullen Hart hears that Schneider's bragging, and Will says, oh, I can also play guitar. So that's how those. Those three who end up being sort of the core of what Elfin 6 becomes. Me and Scott, you'll be thrilled to learn that one of the first concerts they ever went to together was a Cheap Trick concert.

[B]

Oh, fantastic.

[D]

1982. And they actually.

[B]

The one on one tour. Yeah.

[D]

They get. Somehow a guitar pick, one of Rick Nielsen's guitar picks falls on the ground in front of them. They fight over it, over who gets it, and eventually Robert Schneider wins the fight. So out of this bizarre set of circumstances and these friendships, Elephant 6 emerges. These guys play music together at first, just for fun, and it's very bad music by their own admission, but they get better, but they keep this lo fi aesthetic throughout the whole thing, and they remain committed to producing music. They do all sorts of odd jobs to make their true passion, music possible. And they form into two nodes. One in Athens, Georgia, a particularly fruitful node that's been covered on this show for other bands, and one in Denver, Colorado. And it's Denver where the apples grow and are ultimately plucked. I don't know, I don't know how to extend that metaphor properly. And I'll introduce one last character before letting Scott take on the rest. So Robert Schneider is on a bus in Denver and there's this other guy on a bus and John McIntyre is his name, and he and Robert Schneider get into conversation. John doesn't really like Schneider very much. He's again, oddball. And so to try to end a conversation when Schneider asks him who his favorite band is, John McIntyre says, the beach Boys. And then Schneider replies, oh, that's my favorite band too. So they sort of accidentally become friends and musical collaborators. And that's sort of the very, the seed of the apples. So I'll let Scott take the rest from there.

[B]

Yeah. So Schneider and McIntyre meet, as Jack explained. And McIntyre is the one who actually introduced Schneider to a woman named Hilary Sidney, who eventually would be his wife for a time and became a drummer. Sidney was not a professional drummer, meaning she was in a band. But it's a little bit of a Meg White type story in that, that she didn't play. Like she's not, at least at that point, a technically gifted drummer. She just wanted to be in the band. And then Schneider said, she should be in my band too. She should play drums with this band too. And she sings and has this very,

[C]

you know, I'll say it right now, she's a better drummer than Meg White.

[B]

I think so too.

[D]

One thing I want to mention, I forgot to mention that the unique thing about Elephant 6 is that these bands are so. The membrane between them is so permeable. They're just going back and forth. It's sometimes one band is performing, then they, the next band comes up and it's the same people, but they like switch instruments.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So it's, it's, it's. Everyone's going back and forth and they're all collaborating in this very cross pollination type way. So it's what Hillary's doing.

[B]

Yeah, it's around 1992. When the, when, when the. I don't want to extend Jack's metaphor anymore. When the apples.

[D]

Please stop it.

[B]

When the apples begin and that. They're called the Apples. It comes out of the Pink Floyd song Apples and Oranges, which Jeff probably didn't know, but correctly sort of guessed around based on some of the music that Schneider's a big Pink Floyd fan, especially the late 60s output. And where the In Stereo comes from, by the way, is you've seen those shows, like in the 50s and 60s on TV even more recently, where it says in stereo were available, or, you know, Batman in stereo. So the idea really was just that the band is the Apples. And then on the first record it was, they're in stereo, there's the Apples in stereo. It eventually just became one of the same thing, but kind of. I mean, no one's too religious about it, but the name of the band is really the Apples and they're in stereo. But at this point, it's the Apples in stereo.

[C]

And it's also such a shame, too, because once you've heard the original mono mixes of the Apples, you realize that so much artistic intent was sacrificed.

[D]

I want to say one more thing briefly about the Pink Floyd influence. Robert Schneider in Endless Endless tells Adam Clare that the original goal of the band was to fuse Piper at the Gates of Dawn, the Beach Boys, Black Sabbath and Pavement. So that was how he was going about this originally.

[C]

And you hear. And you hear every one of those influences in that stuff. It's amazing.

[B]

So the original band is Schneider and a guy named Chris parfit on guitar. McIntyre's in the band and Sidney's in the band. And those four play a few, practice a lot, play a few live shows in, like, early 93. And in 1993, they have this first EP release called Tidal Wave. It's the first record ever to have the Elephant 6 logo. The first record to come out of the collective and be produced. I'm not sure how you guys want to handle, because there's two EPs. One's called Tidal Wave, other one's called Hypnotic Suggestion, which comes out the very next year in 1994. And they're eventually repackaged in an album called Science Fair, which I know you can find on the streaming services. And Jeff found it on YouTube, of course, as well. I'm perfectly happy to sort of tackle both of these in one fell swoop

[C]

because, yeah, I actually have some thoughts about these, but, you know, you set it up.

[B]

Yeah, I would just say. I would say just very briefly that I don't think they're all that good. Neither of them. I think the songwriting is certainly weaker than it would. There's Lo Fi production and then there's Lo Fi production. This just sounds. This sounds bad. It sounds like it's recorded in a tissue box with a single microphone in the center of the room. A lot of these tracks, you can't hear the drums at all. They're just completely obliterated by everything else happening in the song. Dynamically, things are fairly flat. You know, there's six songs on Tidal Wave. I don't know, like Turncoat, Indians and Instrumental. That is it's okay. And then you've got the title track, Tidal Wave, and then a song called Glowworm on the Hypnotic Suggestion ep. Both of those songs would go be on the first album. Better and better versions. I think those two are by far the best songs here, but they get better when they re record them. I have a hard time even telling people to go back and sort of listen to these and waste time when there's so much better stuff to come. But I think Jeff feels a little differently, at least about these two ep.

[C]

It's not that I actually agree with most of your criticisms, but the thing that I may notice is Chuck close to their career at this point tracks the career of Pavements. They mentioned that they were trying to do Pavement and they look it and they feel like it because that stuff sounds like the early eps from Pavement's crew that ended up on Westing by Muskitt and Sexton. Like a demolition plot. J6 and Slay tracks stuff that was clearly made in a garage or, you know, sounds like it was made in a shoebox. But there are some good songs hiding underneath it. Motor Car's got a good riff. It's a total steal from My Bloody Valentine. Early but pre Loveless era, My Bloody Valentine time. But again, lyrics don't mean a thing. And that will, I think, become an issue with the apples. I. I have to say sometimes those lyrics are a little bit. They're there so you can drape the music around them. And I also do like Haley, which is a song. There's an actual song underneath that thing. But the thing is arranged so sparsely. It's like a Pavement style. You're killing me. There are no drums on it. It's just a wall of guitars. And yeah, most of the stuff, it's all gathered on that one record. And that one record is mostly a curiosity. I. I think, you know, the best songs on this, on these two records were clearly taken for their first album.

[B]

Yeah. At least they recognized the. The high quality ones. They were smart enough to know that, Jack.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, I agree with. With everything you said, Scott. This is mostly curiosity. It's a history, historical artifacts. If you Become obsessed with the band. You can go and look re experience what it was like for the band to learn how to actually produce and record music. I mean, that's. There's merit in that. But if you want to just proceed straight to the studio albums proper, then I won't stop you.

[C]

So there are, there are. By the way, there are two compilations the Apples have put out. One of them is all this early material and yeah, it's mostly historical of note. The other one, however, is really good and we're going to talk about the early projects or what is it?

[D]

Electronic projects.

[C]

Electronic Projects has a lot of stuff and the first, first bit of that will come out after this debut album. The debut album is, I guess it sounds a little more refined than, you know, the first two eps. But Fun Trick Noisemaker still sounds a lot like a band that's trying to imitate Pavement, but isn't quite as good and doesn't have the melodic ideas yet. And that. It's not a bad album. It's. I don't want to give it, you know, the atrocious two star rating. I would. I would say that it's more like a five or six out of ten. They're unfocused. There's melodic ideas here, but the results are unfocused. And that's why you get this thing, which is a really kind of. I guess I'm trying to think of the best way to describe Fun Trick Noisemaker. It's an interesting curio of its era, but it doesn't transcend it.

[B]

Jack, mark this down. Jeff, I could not agree with you more and I did not think I would because this is so much closer in feel and form to some of that lo fi things that you. You tend to drift toward than I do. I look at Fun Trick Noisemaker as, again, exactly what you said. 5 out of 10. 6 out of 10. Decent record. People really like it. There are a lot of great reviews on this record and I really don't agree with them. When I hear Fun Trick Noisemaker, it is the sound of Robert Schneider trying to do far too much. It is form over function or form over content. Meaning. Meaning he knows what he'd like the songs to sound like before they're even written, or he knows that the end point before the work is done to get there. And so what you're left with is kind of this record that is a little, like you said, a little more refined. It sounds a little better than those eps. But all this. Someone wrote a review, Sonic Camouflage like There's all this stuff that is. Is. Is hiding some of the songwriting. Tidal Wave has ten guitars on it. The very next song, High Tide, if you listen headphones, there's just too much going on, and it's not corralled in a proper way to make the songs shine. Look, like I said, it's not a bad record, but it's by far my least favorite Apples and Stereo record. And that's a little bit of the other stuff is so great, but it's also a little bit of. Of this band's not where it needs to be yet to be as successful as they will become. I thought I'd get a lot of pushback from Jeff on this, but apparently I'm not.

[A]

Jam.

[C]

I think it comes through the most on the better songs on the album because you. You see Robert Schneider working too hard, taking too many chances. Lucky Charm to me is the obvious. It's a jangle popper, right? It should be the winner on this record. But there's that. That wonderful intro and midsection that starts off with a lonely little acoustic guitar riff, and then that's the same riff in the middle of the song as it was arranged by Brian Wilson at the bottom of a swimming pool in 1967. 7. You have this very strange, dreamy sound. And, you know, it's not focused, but it's memorable. He is like learning on the fly. This is the sound of a band that is recording and basically learning as they record. And so that's why this one doesn't appeal to me. It's basically, if this were the only album they made, or if they made a bunch of albums like this, I might like it more. But they just. They evolved so fast. Their second record is unrecognizable, you know, compared on Tone. So Tone Soul Evolution, which we'll get to. They're unrecognizable already. So, yeah, I like this record, but it doesn't stick with me.

[A]

Gentle.

[D]

So I agree with you, Scott and Jeff, that there is some amateurish recording going on here. Which is funny because some of the first words you hear on the album are from the narrator, and he says, note. I mean, I like. I'm a big fan of little things like that. But if you say. If you have the narrator say note. The excellence of the recording, you should better make sure your recording is excellent.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Again, it's a Pavement joke. They put out an ep, a really good EP called Perfect Sound Forever. Okay. And you know, and it's not. It's lo fi, right? It's obviously produced in a garage. This is the same idea. There was a lo fi aesthetic going through the scene at that time. That's what they were referring to.

[D]

Yes, there was. One of the. The downsides of the busyness of the production is that sometimes the vocals are like way back in the mix.

[B]

Green machine. You can't hear.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I don't mind that.

[C]

I feel like that's an artistic effect, you know, I think the Rolling Stones always love to bury their vocals too, I guess.

[D]

But if it were. If it were done a bit more professionally, then I might have more time for it. But not on this first album, so. But I do like Tidal Wave, the opening track. It almost sounds to me like maybe an imitation or certainly something inspired by things that the Flaming Lips were doing at the time.

[A]

Sam.

[D]

I like from the beginning that you have this aesthetic of bursting the bonds of what our reality can handle in the lyrics. Then you'll know how it feels to know you're not real. When I hear that, I'm there, we're going for a sort of 60s, 70s, throwback, psychedelia thing, and I'm all for it.

[C]

Well, I was responding to the Flaming Lips. I hear a lot of Flaming Lips in this music as well. And I'm not talking about that gaseous, late 90s, early thousands, flaming Lips, the Soft Bulletin era. I'm talking about the psychedelic freak rock band that somehow scored a record deal back in 1991 and 92, which is when this was being recorded. In fact, they were a much weirder group back then, much harsher and much more lo fi themselves. So it's interesting that you. You reference that as well. I'll point out that maybe that wasn't the band they were really supposed to be, because once they figured out the band they wanted to be, they instantly became better. There's a B side from this album that is better than anything that's on the record. It's called Shine in your mind. And immediately you see this, the. The traits that are going to define the Apples music. It's really complicated, really nifty pop song, very Beach Boys inspiration. But it. It's still too shambolic at this point. They still don't know quite how to sound the way they want to sound yet. They're getting to that. They're going to get to that on this.

[A]

It.

[D]

Yeah. So they're just trying things out. And in some ways they reflect the influences of other bands. In other ways. I think they kind of anticipate bands to come so dots, 1, 2, 3. It almost sounds like something from the debut Arctic Monkeys album to me with this aggressive, punkish guitar. And it's also the first Space Voyage song. I think that the Apples do first of many, so it's worth keeping note of just for that. And then Lucky Charm, which Jeff's already mentioned, is the first song that the Apples do, in which space and love are kind of intermingled as metaphors. So the lyrics said, it's bad enough to be alone, but locked up in the Phantom Zone is the worst place to be. And then she's the first girl that could see me. How exciting. You're Zod. You're in the Phantom Zone, and then some girl wanders through the stars can actually see you. How exciting that must be for a precocious starchild. I have to mention Inner Space, because when I went back and tried to figure out if I actually did know anything about the Apples and stereo before Scott's master play unfolded, Spotify's algorithm had recommended Innerspace to me years ago, and it was in my liked song. So apparently this is the one Apple song that I actually was aware of without realizing.

[C]

It's one of the better ones on the album, too. It's like Santo and Johnny. It reminds me of a surf instrumental. You know, it's very peaceful. Again, it could have come off of like Friends or like one of those late 60s Beach Boys albums, but. But yeah, there's a lot to that one as well. It doesn't have to. It, you know, the mood is enough. Honestly. You don't need words,

[A]

Sam.

[D]

I agree. The last two songs I'll mention I like show the World. The lyrics remind me a bit of Think For Yourself off Rubber Soul. Don't give in to the things that you despair Use your mind, you may find out why they're there. And I like the way the. This is the one instance where the production of the album actually appeals to me because there's a guitar kind of singing and wailing way in the background. If you listen closely with its own, it almost sounds like a voice. And I. In that instance, I actually like that. It's. You have to strain your ears to hear it. And then I think my favorite song off this album is the last one, Pine Away. Yeah, this is a very. I'm a sucker as I'll. I think I'll probably mention this later, too. I'm a sucker for album ending. Ruminative songs.

[C]

It's Here by Pavement. If you've ever heard the song here I was dressed for Success, but success, it never comes. It's a same song. They're not the same melodies, but it's the same guitar tone, same mood that. That quiet contemplation. Very good song.

[D]

I take your word for it as the pavement expert, but I. I think that what the Apples bring to that kind of song is a kind a weird, a chronological I. It's not just nostalgia, it's this guy, the narrator of this song is all over the place take there's. Of all things. It reminds me of the scene in an episode of Futurama where the crew watched the universe end and then start.

[C]

I know the episode, right? Yeah.

[D]

There's thinking about both the past and looking forward to the future. And then. All right, ladies and gentlemen, you have just heard the first stereo program from outer Space. That's the end of Fun Trick Noisemaker.

[A]

Takes me to a distant place in time. First time.

[C]

And it's going to set a strange tone. Interstellar journeys and weird emotional exploration that basically defines what the Apple's lyrical conceits are about. But really the music. The music is what grabs me and the music comes together on their next. Their second album Tone Soul Evolution. No idea what the title is supposed to mean. It sounds appropriately psychedelic and spacey, but what a huge leap forward sonically this is. It's now clean jangle pop. We got horns on the opening track. We have a complete commitment to like, you know, the pop joys of the 60s and early 70s. And you're like, where's this band been all my life? I love this record. It won't even make my top two. Though at the end it's the funniest thing.

[A]

Sam.

[B]

I. I mean I agree that from the very first notes, the very first song on this record, there's a substantial and noticeable tonal shift. A tone evolution that seems so interesting.

[D]

Waiting for someone to say that.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah, it seems so.

[C]

That's what the title means is very.

[B]

It's very Harrison esque in the way that. That you know that open Rickenbacker sound that pops all off on seams. So. And. And you begin to get more tonal variety. The. The juxtaposition of that very kind of open guitar tone in. In the verses of Seems so. And then you get the chorus and you have very tight like buzzsaw riff in the chorus and you start to have these tonal varieties and tonal changes that make a lot of sense and really drive a lot of these songs. I. I think it's an. An immense improvement from the. From the previous record.

[C]

Record.

[B]

There are a couple things I really like here. Shine A Light. One of my favorite songs from the early era of Apples in stereo. Something I would do is shine a light on you. There's a little bit. There's a. There's positivity in there. It's just a great little pop song that Schneider's written. Tin Pan Alley on the back half of Tonesill Evolution. This reminds me. Jeff. What's that?

[C]

It's so catchy.

[B]

It's so catchy. And it reminds me of a Monkeys song. It's got.

[C]

I have monkeys right next to it. I have monkeys and kinks on the second half of this album. Sounds like.

[B]

Could be Mike Nes Smith playing that little countryfi guitar riff.

[C]

Also bluegrass lick.

[B]

But also has that quality of being like. It feels like it's written by someone who knows how to write a song. Someone in the Brill Building. Or Tin Pan Alley. The song is about. If I had a nickel for every song I wrote, I'd be rich. I'd be making a living just like a Tin Pan Alley musician. But everything really works together. The song so. So strong in its structure that it feels like it was written by one of these legendary songwriting teams. A Lieber and Stolder or someone like that. That is just Rob Schneider. Robert Schneider writing something on Tone Soul Evolution.

[A]

It.

[B]

And you get to. Again tonal variety. Something late like Try to Remember is like nothing they attempted on the first record. Or there's organ on this. It's such a cool little sound.

[C]

It's such a lovely song. That's where I really hear the Kinks influences. There's such a simple descending four chord hook. But it works. But when the keyboard part starts answering each of the chord changes like a little Tweety Bird. It's such a wonderful instrumental effect. 60s melody that, you know, was just totally dead during this era and like. Except this band was doing it.

[B]

What's the Number has the slinky riff that opens then carries it through the song. And then Schneider, I think is feeling a little better about himself as a guitarist on this record too. Begin to see him use that guitar as a weapon. That guitar to add color and tone and places on top of riffs. And he'd get even better at soloing as he'd go on in his career with the band. There's a lot of things to like on this record. And it's such a substantial jump in quality.

[D]

And you can hear the vocals in every song. Un Unlike the case in some of the songs. In Frederick Noisemaker, I want to highlight, for various reasons, the opener Seems so, which exists in the subgenre of songs about UFOs, which I'm always partial to. Now. It's funny to me. So this album comes out the same year as OK Computer, and I'm thinking of Subterranean Homesick Alien off OK Computer, which is musically nothing like this song. In fact, the. But the. The lyrical content is quite similar, but Seems so is more toward the namesake of Subterranean Homesick Aliens. Subterranean Homesick Blues, more of a folky thing. And I really like it. It's. It's. I just want to highlight the lyrics. When I tell the world my troubled plight now, do you think they'll listen? Or is this the kind of tribe people like to put on television? And so this is a. I'll. I'll furnish some ammo for Scott's argument that Robert Schneider is not saying anything in his lyrics.

[A]

Out of my window.

[D]

There's a couple songs. I'll get to a couple of them later that are actually interesting commentaries on the very early era of the media landscape. We now have it.

[B]

Yeah,

[D]

again, I'll. I'll talk about some more of those later. But I second what Scott said about Shine A Light.

[A]

What.

[D]

What. You guys are the experts here. What is that in the background? Is that a fuzz bass or is that horns on the.

[C]

Those are horns. I think they're horns. I looked it up. I looked the credits up, and they are horns. They're saxophones. Trombones on the album. So I'm thinking they're there.

[D]

I. I love that song. It's. It's great. It's fun. It's sort of like a hybrid of. Of Pavement and something you might hear on Rubber Soul.

[C]

I think it's a pop rock great, that song is.

[D]

And then the lyrics are also a great reflection of something that. That is in Robert Schneider's worldview to this day. Before this show started, Scott forwarded us an interview that Robert Schneider, now a professor at Michigan Tech, just did an interview that he just conducted in which he said there's a universe inside our imaginations that's like a simulation of the universe that's outside. And when we do stuff in that creative space of our universe and we check, it actually is out there too. So the lyrics are in Shine alone and I look to the sky and baby, get a notion of the ocean that you are. You're an ocean. There's so much inside of you. Imagine what else there is to discover.

[A]

Let's go outside. We'll go for a ride for a day or two Take a day or two let's go outside the air is open wide and the weather's bright for you, Sam.

[D]

Finally, I'd like to put a word in for the silvery light of a dream. Part two, especially part one, has these animal noises and stuff, which must be a pet sounds illusion.

[C]

It's a Pink Floyd illusion.

[D]

Pink Floyd, that's right. We discussed this before we started recording. Jeff found something so deep in the weeds that I had to look it up. What he was talking about. This EMI sound effects.

[C]

Yeah, there's EMI sound effects. I mean, there's even the sequence in the light. This is really abstract. Oscar. The live performances of the song Cymbeline from the album more 1969 Pink Floyd. There's like, you know, guys running up and down staircases and steps, doors slamming, all that. It was actually a big segment of their live performance. But only a guy who's as much of a Pink Floyd nerd as Robert Schneider would think to reference that in the silvery light of a dream, but he does.

[D]

I like these.

[C]

I don't think it works, to be honest. I think the acoustic guitar harmonium on that song, it just doesn't work for me. Part two is better.

[D]

Part two? Yeah, part two is better.

[A]

Better.

[D]

But both parts one and two seem like a dry run for Beautiful Machine, which is coming down the pike. And I think Beautiful Machine is a better. A much better version of what is attempted here.

[A]

Sam,

[D]

I like. I like the way this album ends. Find Our Way is a nice, plaintive culmination. And the coda is probably the place where I see the most Neutral Milk hotel we're coming up on. So this is 97. Neutral Milk Hotel is about a year away. And this is something that Schneider is producing, so it's probably in his brain or about to be in his brain soon. And so it's not a surprise that you start getting things like accordions in the mix, because there's. There's all sorts of strange and bizarre instruments are going to show up on that album, which obviously we're not going to talk about since it's not an Apple's album, but Schneider's the producer, so that cross pollination that I mentioned comes into play. So definitely Tones of Evolution, definitely improvement on the first album. But I think there's even better things to come, which is what's so great about this band.

[C]

I know.

[B]

So I've set this up by saying, I said at the beginning, my story about finding Apples is pretty Straightforward. The Story of Apples. The band is also fairly straightforward in that they keep getting better.

[C]

Right. There's no drop. It just. It ends at a peak.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So this next album is.

[C]

Well. But before you go, by the way, there's some things. Okay. My only criticism of Tone Soul Evolution now at this point is that I. I still hear who the band is influenced by more than I hear the band themselves. Right? I hear, oh, that's them doing Stacks full. Oh, that's them doing, you know, Beach Boys. Oh, that's Floyd. And then there's songs that actually still sound like themselves. Those are the ones that really excite me. So get There. Fine is a great song. Nobody's mentioned it yet, but that little steely riff that opens it, it reminds me of an enormous amount of a song that come out just around the same time they. Nobody Was Stealing From Anybody. It sounds like Faithful by Pearl Jam, you know, it's like simultaneous inspiration, Sam. But it has that drama, has a big middle eight, really. Actually, it's only. It's only Robert Schneider's voice that lets it down a little bit. I'll say that. I've never been entirely persuaded by his singing voice. Actually. The one who I really like is Hillary Sidney. There's. There's a vibe that I get from these guys that reminds me an awful lot of My Bloody Valentine, which I don't know how familiar you are with Scott, but you know, Kevin Shields and Belinda Butcher, they sound very much like those two, you know, Sydney and Schneider. And I really like when she sings Silver Chain more than any other moment on this record. I think that's my favorite song on the record. It's so dreamy. The middle horn, middle eight, and those play out with the horns and the backy vocals. That's the Apples coming into Focus.

[A]

Jam.

[C]

Ironically enough. There's like one moment in that song that is strange, but they have a weird false fade out. I don't know why they do that, but other than that, that really, really brings this band into focus and it kind of takes us to the next one, which is just a celebration, maybe secretly the weirdest, but my most favorite album of this career.

[B]

It's. It's 15 songs in 27 minutes. Now, it's not all, but it's really

[D]

all short albums, so that's part of it.

[C]

But it's really only like seven songs.

[B]

That's right. It's exact. And you know what they don't miss on any of those seven songs.

[A]

Thing? Just peel back the way. Make a hole So I can breathe so I can live under the sea.

[C]

We're talking about, by the way, an album called Her Wallpaper Reverie. We never queued it up. I just realized Her Wallpaper Reverie, which

[D]

is We Were Too Hot.

[C]

It's a beautiful title alone. It's such a suggestive title. You just, you think of somebody like a girl sitting alone in a room, you know, and bored, nothing to do, staring at the wallpaper and just dreaming and, you know, coming up with scenarios in her head. And that's what this album really sounds like.

[B]

I've opened every album so far. Jeff, you want to go first? No, Jack. Jack, go first. Jack, what do you think about this one?

[D]

Well, first I think we should mention that Robert Schneider and Hillary Sidney, I think are married now by the time this album is released, maybe they.

[B]

True. Because their son's born I think in 2000. So. Yes.

[D]

Yeah. So they're either married or they're. They're definitely. Their relationship has started. So that's an interesting sort of biographical detail for the band that becomes important later when. When things change about their relationship. So I think about this album not to be Mr. One Trick Pony here. This is to me. I remember the argument I made about elo's El Dorado is that that was a concept album that the band would outdo later. But focusing on a concept allowed them helped them to get their act together and hone their craft and figure out what it is that they wanted to do and what is they want it to be. So that's how I think of this album. And when I say that there's an. I don't mean there's a direct ELO influence. This is much more of a Beatlesy album or Beatles esque album. I suppose that's the adjective we always use for that sort of thing than a yellow album. Plus some, maybe some Beach Boys here. The interludes are interesting, but I think you both have suggested that there's only really seven songs, seven real songs here. But I kind of like the weird playfulness and loopiness of sort of doubling back and rounding back about on the same, same couple of chords over and over again. It brings the album together and. And coheres the whole thing. What do I like on this album? So I have to mention, since I already have, I'll mention Strawberry Fire, which is. It's almost like I went through a phase where I was briefly obsessed with really slowed down and stretched out versions of songs that I knew as. As like a hypnotic trance type listen while I was Working.

[C]

Have you heard the Alvin and the Chipmunks album?

[D]

Oh, of course, Jeff. I'm so glad you mentioned chipmunks on 16 speed.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh man, that, that, that's crazy. The CR thing about that whole thing is that there were actual studio musicians who recorded at that speed and they were like, okay, I guess we're just gonna speed this all up now in the production process. Even though there was this great post Apoc masterpiece that they had made.

[C]

I can see where you're going with Strawberry Fire though.

[D]

Yeah, this is like a slowed down version of Norwegian wood basically, 100%.

[B]

But the difference is it actually goes to your point, I think there is this absolute unstoppable pulse underneath Strawberry Fire that of course the Beatles didn't really have access to, maybe creating something like that. But the pulse that pushes and throbs under Strawberry Fire, that's what makes it special.

[D]

And the drums, it comes from the drums,

[A]

Sam.

[C]

That was the moment where I thought to myself, Hillary City is a pretty good drummer. It's like classic 60s style drumming and it pushes so well.

[D]

Yes, it is. It is a great song and it's one of the first Apple songs I heard. Shiny Sea is pretty good too. That almost feels like sounds like you are actually underwater when you listen to to it and on purpose. Ruby reminds me it feels like a Beach Boy song, but a Beach Boy song of that later Beach Boys era that I didn't really know much about but that you guys in part two of your Beach Boys episode with Matt

[C]

straight out of 1968. Yeah, Matt Wa.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And it does.

[D]

Yeah, it sounds much more like that era of the Beach Boys which you guys sold me on pretty well. Like to see something like that on here.

[A]

Ruby. Oh baby, can't you see I'm so sad it's killing me. Are you listening Ruby? If you like to think out loud it might really help me out. Are you listen girl trouble they seem to follow me as far as I can see it must be my destiny the need trouble they carry you around from the crib into the ground they will never set you down.

[D]

And I want to single out Y2K as another example to the Berner Scott's argument that the app something to say

[C]

the aped up things that you read

[D]

are kind of such a fun. It's like a carnival esque number and the the singer the, the attitude of the song is very. It's both jaunty and John dissed at the same time and I, I, I just have fun and it's It's a fun little artifact that the title is Y2K, which I love the fact that

[C]

he's making fun of the narrator. He's like, listen, you calm down, panic, it' be fine. But you know, he's mocking, you know, her. I assume it's a woman he's speaking to. He's like, get your head straight. It's not going to happen like that. We're going to be just fine.

[B]

And Jeff, for you and I specifically. Toy piano. Toy piano in this. In the song.

[D]

Oh, that's right. Yes. Like this. Like the self cover of what a Fool Believes.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I know you believe the up things that you mean Gonna happen. Yeah. You believe the up things that you mean.

[D]

The last thing I'll mention. The benefits of lying with your friend. This, this sounds. This is one of these instances as Scott described, where it may seem the music is so fun. Where it may. You may think that it's just. You're just in it for a fun list. Listen. But pay attention to those lyrics because the relationship being described here is actually, as I read it, a very complicated one.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Where you're not actually sure if these people are. Are lovers, ex lovers, friends with benefits. And that's how he wrote it about

[C]

his relationship with Hillary Sidney. That was my guess.

[D]

You know, that would make sense. But it's a very.

[B]

That should still be strong at this point. So I'm not sure.

[D]

It's a very strange. Strange content lyrically. But again, the music is great, so you don't always pay attention. But it's a much more. So the closing lyrics. I'll never know you like you know yourself. You'll never know me like I know myself. We're not in I Am the Walrus territory here. I is not. He is not we. And we may not be all together.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Something else is going on that's interesting to me, Jack.

[B]

I love these lyrics and this is, I think, one of the early examples I would point to that. There's a lot more happening here than people might think with Schneider's lyrics. To me, this, despite the title, is a song about like, losing yourself. Like losing yourself in a relationship. Like when. When.

[C]

When did you.

[B]

When did you stop being who you are so you could be with this person? The first couple? Everything I say I love this. Everything I say falls away like the Fade on the radio song. It's a great image, you know, great. Really audio, audio image. You have an audio image. But then later every day I rub my everyday. I rub both my eyes and my Mind fills with complications and everywhere I go Pass by slow fading mem. Fading moments and aspirations like all these things I was all these things I thought I wanted to be Do I not want to do that stuff anymore? This is a much more complicated track than perhaps First Meets the Eye or Earth.

[A]

I can't find myself and there's no one there Sometimes I can see myself I can be myself With a friend Now Every day I rise, open my eyes and my mind fills with complications and everywhere I go Pass by Slow fading moments and aspirations still there's something to be said for company and wanted to see.

[D]

There's a bit of wistfulness to it, but more than a bit. So there's more going on here than the critics say.

[B]

Say. Yeah, and I'll let Jeff speak in a moment. But there's like. I think the one song you didn't mention is my favorite one, so I'll take a moment to plug Questions and Answers, which is the Hillary Sydney vocal on this record. This one refused to leave my side for three weeks. This. That wonderful, wonderful chorus just kills me every time. Wonderful melody, incredible arrangement. They're sending me a picture of the moon it's fabulous. And, you know, his voice is unusual. Her voice is unusual. They're able to write these tracks, by and large, so that the voice and the vocals accentuate the message and the melody and the songwriting and Questions and Answers is a perfect example of that. It's my favorite track on, again, an album where I think they didn't miss on any of the original songs on this record.

[A]

They're sending me a picture of the moon. Answer the question. Is it straight or anyone?

[C]

Hillary Ring has this tendency to sing with a certain kind of naivete. This is sort of like straight openness, like a. Like a little girl. That's what I love. Her wallpaper reverie. I mean, I think of it, you know, as like. Like a little girl just like, singing to herself and you. That feeling comes across. The psychedelic innocence of all of this stuff comes across. Duke. I mentioned the Dukes of Stratosphere earlier. Strawberry Fire might as well have come off the 25 o' clock EP, which is just like, you know, their attempt at doing pastiches of classic 60s sounds. That's such a wonderful tune. You guys already mentioned. It sounds just like John Lennon. I don't really have much more to add about this, except to say, you know, to summarize by saying that it might be short. It might only be seven songs on this record, but there's seven of the Best songs songs, you know, in the Apple's career. And it might make my top two at the end of the day.

[D]

Well, I like how you always keep us in suspense in the course of the show.

[C]

It might thinking it through myself, I mean the truth is it might make the top two, but I know what will make the top two at the end of the day. And it's the next one. It's the out. It's an album titled. I have no idea what this means. The Discovery of a World Inside the Moon. And that would be M O O N E. Like it's last name.

[D]

I want to say it's an allusion to various conspiracy theories that the moon is a space station and stuff like that. I choose to believe it is. Yeah, that is. That it is an illusion. Not that the moon is a space station.

[C]

But anyways, I mean I don't want to be the one to introduce this. I think you guys are probably both pretty eager to talk about it but. The Discovery of the world Inside the moon. I had already been impressed just listening through to the Apple stuff in order. I'd already really been impressed with Toneso evolution. Then it clicked to me with her wallpaper reverie and I was like, wow, this is really a talented band. And then, and then the first moment of the first song on the Discovery of a World Inside the Moon hit and I'm like okay, this is a masterpiece. This group is truly great. And it's go. We've already talked about it a couple of times on the show already. But that chorus. You're such a pretty, pretty pretty little girl let's blow this ugly, ugly ugly

[D]

little world let's go.

[C]

There's an innocent joy to that song. It's a song about leaving everything behind. I could see it being sung by a bunch of school kids or by adults. It works both ways but with the flute and the horns, the riff. There's. There's even like a normal nice 60s guitar solo and then just comes straight to a stand pat ending. It doesn't linger too long. It just ends. It's done. It knows exactly what it wanted to say. Let's go.

[A]

I like the way you look so she treats you like crook now you want to go go baby Moment that together baby you such a pretty, pretty pretty little girl Love this ugly ugly ugly little.

[D]

The title you you. And if you again pay. Don't pay close attention to the lyrics. You'd think it's about oh this, this joyful. I can't wait to. To go on our Trip or whatever. But actually, no, it's about leaving. Leaving situations that you hate being again.

[C]

I mean, that, to me, is joyful. Hey, Salisbury Hill is a song about leaving. It also features flutes, I'll point out. You know, I mean, it's that. It's like we're getting away. It's like Don Draper running out of the office and going for a drive to the American West. You know, it's like, I've had enough of this.

[B]

Let's go.

[D]

Yeah. It's great, Scott.

[B]

It's a fantastic record. Look, I. This is the first one I bought, and it's the one I mentioned. I had a hard time getting past track six. Not because I. I didn't want to hear those other tracks. The first six are so strong. I kept going back on again and again and again and again. There is a big change in the style. Big change. The production style. It's a little more raw, a little more live, a little less psychedelic, Right? Less kind of a big, giant orchestra and wall of sound and more. You know, the Schneider quote I shared with you guys where he said, you know, paraphrasing essentially was saying, I used to wonder what I could do with 100 guitars, and now I know the power of one guitar. One guitar can go a long way. That's really apparent.

[C]

And there's another big difference, which is that this is the first Apple's album where you can really hear a lot of R and B.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[D]

It's great.

[C]

It used to be psychedelic and sort of like, you know, like cutesy. Right. You know, and well crafted. But now you hear, like, the strut. You hear like something like the bird that you can't see, which I love.

[D]

Yeah. Let's talk about that song. That is a great song. Is there. I know I keep searching for fuzz bass. Is there actually one in here? I want to believe there is. There's something going on in this song that.

[C]

Yeah, it stacks Volt is what it is, practically. Okay. You know, you. You hear like, that sort of like, you know, that deep, you know, R B sound. You also hear it on Go in a much more popified form, but that's the difference. This is the first time the Apples actually sort of swing

[A]

of my song. I'll tell you now it's all about how you feel Baby, I don't know or care where you are from Just so I know where you go is real it's like the bird. Like the bird that you can't see but you can hear the pretty music in the street it's like the world like a word that you can't say but you can sing the pretty music anyway. Girl now I know there are some things that you need to explain Girl. Come on.

[D]

And they swing and they hit. It's great. Feels like something that could be the. I've mentioned Rubber Soul before. It feels a bit like a rubber soul song to me. I love the setup of the song. Is a guy trying to invite a girl not to necessarily to a relationship but to another universe or something like that. Feel free. Plant your mind in mystery Turn off your mind and do yourself a favor. This is. This is great. The birds you can't see. Great song. What else is on this album that's great. I'm a big fan of the rainbow. This is where I detect the most. Olivia. Tremor control. I don't want to say influence necessarily because again, the weird Elven 6 cross pollination is that they're both influencing each other and influenced by each other in a way that is impossible to detect.

[A]

Some people like to me Some people on the street Some people like to hang around oh now Some people like to speak Some people tong your cheek Na na They try to cut you down Take a trip all around yeah, yeah Take a little look around. Just like the rainbow.

[D]

Like on look away when you have sort of neutral mill. Neutral milk Hotel esque horn. So it was. So one of you said that this is a less psychedelic album. I think the big exception to that is 20 cases suggestive of this is Hillary's big moment on the album or my favorite at least. This song makes me feel like I'm a soul hurtling through the scenario described at the end of Plato's Republic, which is what is happening to all the souls in the afterlife in a reincarnation scenario. That's what the song is about. It's about reincarnation. And I love the way that the drums come in. It reminds me a little bit actually of the. The way the drums come in on Jumping Jack Flash with those three hard strikes on the. On the kit. And yes, this song achieves everything. It tries to.

[A]

See what had happened when he came back again. Passing through the time the distant halls Breathing in the sand of waste of time was.

[D]

What else is worth mentioning on here. I think Submarine Dream is pretty good too. This is a. Almost take two of the Shiny Sea and I think it's better. It's also. I didn't necessarily expect for the Robert Schneider's guitar virtuosity to pop up in this song, but pop up it does with a nice solo. Probably the best solo that's been on Apple's record so far. I think. Better ones to come. But I'll close by mentioning the Afternoon, which feels again like a very neutral Milk Hotel song. There's another song that was recorded in these sessions and I think is actually on the album in the Japanese release from electronic projects for musicians called Hold on to this Day, I like that a little bit better than the Afternoon. It's a very similar acoustic driven been plaintive, ruminative, nostalgic reverie. But both songs are good. I enjoy them both. Hard to find a thing to be critical of on this album from me.

[C]

I mean, I don't really have anything more to add. Everything here is perfect. Stay Gold is the one song that I don't think anybody mentioned. Another Hillary song, just a beautiful, beautiful track. And again, I am in love with her voice. I prefer her voice to Schneider's voice in a lot of ways, especially because it always seems a little strange when Schneider sings so high and with such a kind of a whispery falsetto, whereas it seems exactly right when Hillary sings those kinds of songs. I think you guys have mentioned almost everything else except nobody really talked about Stream Running over, which I'll talk about one of those.

[B]

That's a great song.

[C]

Then I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave that to Scott because. Just another effortless pop joke.

[B]

It's. It's the third song, so I said, you know, go the Rainbow six, right?

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

And the Rainbow. Such a fantastic song. And then Stream Running over is the third song and it's this sort of mid tempo number, but it straddles the line of having almost this electronic type pulse to it, which you wouldn't expect necessarily from the band, but it works. Hand claps and again, lyrically here. Wanted to go where the antelope play Looked around They've all gone away Once I cut my hand but the wound was not a part of me Now I'm a man There's a wound at the heart of me he's trying to do some interesting things here lyrically on Stream Running over, and it's got just this really catchy single melody to it. In the center of it too. That's one of the great songs on the record.

[A]

By the starlight surrounding us like falling rain Warring down on us. Everybody swimming, swimming in the water There's a stream running on the hunter still shores Everybody swimming, swimming in the water

[B]

One that has been mentioned that I want to make sure I say something about is all right, not quite toward the end. I enjoy that frenzied sort of growl that Snyder can hit at times when he's really trying to punch the lyrics through. And even when it's a little messy and dirty, you're always just one step away from something very, very pretty. Like, I think the chorus here is really, really very pretty. Not hard to see that I'm all right but not quite and there's a lot of cowbell on all right, not quite. It's a rocking number that I really like. And I alluded to this earlier, but on I can't believe, which is just before that they just twist that Sunshine of your Love riff from Cream into something very interesting and rough and dirty. It's a 60s garage rock rock sort of homage that they pull off very well. This is, you know, once you get past six, you still find a lot of winners on Discovery of a World Inside the Moon takes a lot out

[A]

of me and it's not hard to see that I'm alright but not quite Takes a lot out of me and it's not hard to see that I'm alright but not quite when not quite girls that I see they are the other way away from me and girl when I try things every just to hide so give me a number now and don't go give them your number.

[D]

I want to say one more thing about the afternoon, which is that specifically I mentioned the Neutral Milk Hotel similarity. It reminds me specifically of Two Headed Boy part two, which is I think the last song on in the Airplane over the Sea. But should we move on to Velocity of Sound? Does anyone else have anything to say about. Has anyone else discovered the world inside the. The moon?

[C]

I don't think we should move on to the Velocity sound until we've spent a lot of time talking about Powerpuff Girls.

[B]

Okay, I said we've got to mention this because as I think Jeff alluded to earlier, it's not as if these radio song songs are being played on the radio. So if people are aware of the Apples and Stereo, it might be. This is the most streamed song, at least on YouTube music, where I listen to my music in the band's history. Little song called let's Go from the Powerpuff Girls. I guess they did an episode, I'm not totally sure on the story. They did an episode based around the song that Schneider wrote about the Powerpuff Girls. Is that about right?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I'm looking actually at the soundtrack it comes off on. There's A lot of good bands on this. On the cd.

[D]

This is the movie soundtrack or just the episode?

[B]

I think it just.

[C]

It's called Heroes and Villains, by the way, which is a total Beach Boys steal. I don't. I've never watched this show. I have no idea what it.

[D]

The. The Powerpuff Girls creators, they are sort of music nerds. There is an episode I remember watching from when I was a child in which the. The Powerpuff Girls villains team up and become a group called the Beat Alls. As in they beat everyone who comes to them and the Powerpuff Girls defeat them. The. The. The main villain. I can't believe I'm getting into power. Well, actually it makes sense since they ban their sex with this, but I'm just going to go on it anyway. So the main villain of the Powerpuff Girls is a sort of hyper intelligent ape called Mojo Jojo. And so they. They. The Powerpuff Girls can't beat the Beat Alls, so they get this. There's all sorts of references to Beal's songs scattered throughout this episode. So. But they. To defeat the Beat Alls, they get this other ape from the zoo who's female and I can't remember what they call her, but she breaks up the Beatles.

[B]

I remember this episode now. Yes.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. So they. There's. There's something going on here that may be why they were so. I don't. I don't know exactly how the Powerpuff Girls apples and Stereo Connection happened, but I'm glad it happened because let's Go is a great song.

[A]

Would you like to play a game of hide and seek? Now if you have X ray eyes please promise not to pee La la la. Well, first we count to 10 and then we'll have some fun. Will you fly away before we count?

[B]

So then we can go to velocity of sound and.

[D]

Okay, should we. We should talk about this album for no more than two and a half minutes. And we should talk about it as. Fast. Really fast.

[B]

Really fast. This is the defining characteristic of I, I, I. And again, I told you. I remember buying this. I remember putting it in the CD player in the car for the first time. And then. That is the absolute takeaway that I had. This is relentlessly loud and fast and distorted and it will not stop. It's like you're on a horse that has been spooked and you can't do anything. You just have to ride it until it's. Until it ends. It's 26 minutes or something crazy. And 12 songs. And it is just loud, loud, loud and fast, fast, fast. And it's a little different from Discovery of the World Inside the Moon. Terms of. It's more. It's rocker, right. It's heavier. It's harder in a lot of places.

[A]

Please tell me what to do Please to get in touch with you and I tried to call you satellite but, baby, you would not receive oh, no and I tried to call you satellite but baby, you would not believe oh,

[C]

no, no in my notes, I literally write stripped down, thus step down, because I think it's a little bit too. It's too much of an adrenaline rush, actually. I really liked it when they. When they took their time with all these sweet pop melodies on the previous record, and now they're. They're going hardcore in. In a strange way, it's like. I don't at this point associate the Apples and Stereo with, like, heavy guitars, but there's a lot of guitar work on this record.

[B]

So I. I'll say a couple things. One is, again, maybe the best song here is a Hillary song. Well, Baroque's on here. That's probably the best song. But Rainfall, the second song, is such a fun. If you slowed that down just like 20%, you'd have, like, a real, real winner. As it is, it's just fine. But Hillary wrote the music, Robert, with the lyrics here. And again, painting these pictures downtown is like a slot machine shine Neon lights and stoplights turn to green crosstown the street is like a stream, asphalt and people driving in a dream. So many references to dreams and, of course, space in these lyrics. My favorite thing about Rainfall, it is the most Elliot Easton solo of Robert Schneider's career. Short, spastic, but the song won't work without it. He's in and out in like 12 seconds. It's a perfect Elliot Easton solo in Rainfall.

[A]

The rainfall the rainfall. The rainfall on the ground down on the ground the rainfall the rainfall Bringing me down Bringing me down. I see you every day.

[D]

I thought Scott was going to mention his favorite Hillary Sydney moment on this album being I Want, I Want, which

[B]

is just the Cedar Riff from Veruca Salt over and over again.

[D]

I really enjoy it. I mean, it's pretty basic, pretty repetitive, but it's Somehow. It works for me. Yeah, I really have fun on it. I want. I really like Please the. The album opener. I. The Apples know how to close to open and close albums, something they're very good at. Some bands really struggle with this, but none of these albums, including the one which I. I Agree with Jeff. This is a bit. This is an experiment and sometimes experiments don't perform as you want them to, but you do them anyway. I think the Apple's essential nature still shines through. And there's some enjoyable stuff on here. But. But again, we keep saying there's better stuff to come, but there's still good stuff on here. What else on here? So I want to mention Better Days, which I keep bringing up the Beatles as a comparison and reference point for this band. And there's some obvious psychedelic Beatles inspired stuff throughout the Apple's discography. But I actually think the better Apple Beatles aping songs are the ones that remind me the most of the non psychedelic era Beatles stuff. So this almost sounds like something that could be on Hard Day's Night or something like that.

[A]

You sing Better days than me Than me. I figure that we both can agree and we don't agree on anything. Cause I'm the one that shouts and you the one that sings. You seen better days My friends, my friends. But I've seen things that I can't understand I've seen things that never came to light and that's the reason I can't even sleep and I see what you've done why don't you see what you've done? See what you've you done?

[D]

Scott already mentioned broke. Broke is an excellent song. Other stuff on here, I want to. I want to highlight the lyrics again in my never ending case to join with Scott that the Apples have something to say in. Do you understand? There's a bit of Unabomberism that shows up here. If I had my day I'd burn down the factories they sicken me and make the weather gray. So that's. That's something to say. Not sure it's something that I agree with, but something is definitely being said. That's something I do. This, this almost feels to me like a Weezer song. Both, Both the. The lyrics and the music. Aggressive, kind of sardonic. Your friends hate my guts.

[B]

That's.

[D]

That's one way to get the attention of.

[B]

Or even like the Rentals, like Friends of P. It's close to that,

[D]

yeah. And last thing I'll mention here is she's telling lies. Is that on the version of this album that you guys listen to?

[B]

It's on the CD version. And I'm. I, I'm not sure.

[D]

I just wanted to make sure. I, I like this song a lot. It reminds me of something, but I don't know what it is. Can you guys help me out this. It sounds like it's drawing from some really familiar, well, of early 60s pop that I can't quite place. Is there something, some obvious influence here that I'm missing out on? Because it's really bothering me. It sounds like something, and I don't want that.

[C]

Nags at me, but I can't put my finger on it either.

[D]

I like it. So that. I guess that's all I have to say. Maybe listeners can identify it once this.

[C]

Once this podcast comes out.

[A]

That's my alibi. She's a little girl who works a fairy queen. She's talking to the kids.

[D]

No, I still.

[A]

This.

[D]

This is an experiment. It doesn't always work, but it's still a fun album. And if you don't like it, well, just wait five minutes, it'll be over.

[C]

So, I mean, I think you basically covered everything I have to say about it. I like. You know, I like some of the songs. I like their lyrics here. I actually started paying attention at this point to what they were saying, and there's actually a mismatch in my mind to the lyrics and the aggression of the music. Baroque has got a really beautiful set of lyrics. And yet the thing actually, just to my mind, it bashes on, you know, it's a little clumsy as a sound, but in the moonlight I see my memories in a new light they seem surreal to me I remember I remember the starlight skipping on the bay Come on, we can still go there today I remember, you know, and I don't know why they call the song Baroque, because it doesn't sound the slightest bit baroque in any way. But it's a great sentiment that I think is undercut a bit by music. That is not the first time I think I'll ever say this about the Apples. Slightly generic.

[A]

I giving all the vein. Come on, we can still go there today I remember. We haven't changed we just feel the strange. We haven't changed. We're just starting open.

[B]

The only other point I'd make is it might be mystery. Mystery right near the end again, the second half starting with Better Days. There's a little bit revival, a little bit of a revival on the album. Mystery. That big fat chorus is worth a listen, you know, I see a mystery between you and me that's worth a listen. And there's pieces like Baroque Jeff Barnes talked about. I always think those. Those ba da ba ba ba. It's like if A.C. newman got a hold of the band and started directing some of the. Some of the voices and Stacking them in places so there's. There are pieces and parts, but everything. It's a good listen. I don't know if Jack wants to listen while he runs. I don't mind it on the exercise bike because I want to go fast. This goes fast, but it's kind of a rough listen. If you just sit down and say, I want 27 minutes. It's loud and fast and rough.

[C]

Well, I guess that brings us. We don't have to. We don't really have to spend too much time on the next album, do we?

[D]

Yeah, we'll just pass right through.

[C]

I mean, it's obviously the biggest disappointment of the Apple's career. It's New Magnetic Wonder. I don't have much to say about it. It's just a huge failure. Scott.

[B]

Go away. Both of you, go away.

[A]

Can you feel who can you feel Feel it Who can you feel it makes you feel good who makes you feel good? Who can you feel it? Who can you feel it? Can you feel it? Who makes you feel so good?

[C]

So this is.

[D]

This is.

[C]

This is, by many people's estimation, one of the greatest albums of their career. And it. It's really impressive. It's a double album that doesn't really need to be a double cd, but whatever. The conceit works. And I think Scott has been waiting a very long time. Discuss it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Before.

[B]

Go ahead, Jack.

[D]

Scott discusses it, I want to mention. So this is an excerpt from the Adam Clare book I mentioned. So. And this also is a callback to something I mentioned before. Robert and Hillary are beginning to separate in this album. And in the Adam Clare book, guitarist John Hill says that the Apples are two distinct entities. There's the Apples with Hillary and the Apples without Hillary. Hillary had an underground approach to it, and she kept us grounded in that way. There was no possibility of anything sounding cheesy. And then the second she leaves, we break wide open with the cheese. New Magnetic Wonder kind of started it because that's when she was breaking off and wasn't paying attention as much. And then Travelers in Space and Time, it goes full cheese. But I like the cheese. Give me more cheese.

[B]

I have no problem with that. Yeah. So in terms of timeline, that's for sure. They certainly had broken up, I think.05.

[C]

You know, they got divorced in 06.

[B]

Right. So Hillary was there for the whole record and they divorced. She played some shows and then left the band, actually before the album was even released. But she was around. She played on the record, she contributes to the record. But by the time this is being recorded I think it's clear that.

[C]

That.

[B]

That that relationship is over. Even if they haven't officially divorced as of yet. And there's some interesting nuggets there that I think I found while listening this time around. Yeah, I could talk about this record for. For a long time. So you guys will stop me at some point. I think New Magnetic Wonder is the best album of their career. I think it's one of the greatest album of the aughts of that decade. I think that it is immaculately sequenced. I think it tells an amazing story. A story in sound. Sound as well as in lyric. The way that this is all pieced and put together, it may not be for everyone. That's always the standard caveat. It connects with me at an emotional level. It is irresistible to me. And the trip is so interesting from beginning to end. It's designed. I mean it's designed to be listened beginning to end. There's all these pieces that sort of link the songs together. Together.

[C]

He's developing various non Pythagorean compositions.

[D]

How much do we want to go into that? Because it's discussed a little bit in this book and it explains. But I don't understand it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I mean it means nothing to me. I'm terrible at math.

[D]

I think the funniest. I'll just go in a brief digression about it now so we can get it out of the way. There's a funny story behind it which is that Robert Schneider did a lot of this recording production himself and sort of self taught. And in the course of producing one of the albums he starts working with a recording device that is very on the fritz and something that he has to constantly repair and maintain. And so he buys a bunch of books on how to repair and maintain it. And these books lead him into theories of how technology works. And from there he kind of reverse engineers himself into a physics degree. It's a bizarre thing. So he actually goes to back to school and this is how he ends up as a physics professor at Michigan Tech up in the very northern tip of the upper peninsula of Michigan.

[B]

A lot of snow. Like a lot of snow up there.

[D]

A lot of snow. A lot of frozen ice. And Robert Schneider is going to tell us what it sounds like for ice to melt and freeze. He's lined canals up there according to this interview I mentioned already with sound equipment. So he's up there doing some crazy stuff. But a very smart guy and made a great album which Scott is going to keep talking about.

[B]

All right, let me, let me, let me pick four or five things that I have to say some words about and then I'll open it up to you guys. But this album just means a ton to me. So from start to finish, in terms of where I pluck these from Skyway, which is the second song on this record, record at opening riff. If you can describe an apples and stereo riff as being nasty, this would be it. And a splash of bass and cymbals start things off. These are some of the not only is he writing interesting things, he's singing them in interesting ways on this record too. So Skyway, the chorus, you know, follow the streets and the cars and the shadows and the stars. Like it's a. It's a whispered poison whoosh at the end of the chorus there. And there's some interesting lines. Fists loaded with a furious disdain. Your ferocity will be your shame. Fast motion like a curious flame. The best that I can do is to turn my back on you. That middle eight section is these little bending stopping notes on the guitar. It's such a fun, fun uptempo song. Again, front loaded with really hyper end energetic, fun, catchy hook filled tunes. Skyway is awesome.

[A]

Fallen leaves whisper like thieves not that you mind you live on stolen time you follow the skyway you follow your right of way you follow the streets and the cars and the shadows and the stars. Odds. Fist loaded with a furious disdain your ferocity will be your shame. Fast motion like a curie right in the middle.

[B]

And I didn't really realize this until reviewing for this recording. I always love this song. So Sundahl song, which is a Hillary song. I think it's her best moment in the band. She has tons of great moments. It this seems extra personal for her. Like she has poured everything into the construction recording singing of the Sundal song. And so what's happening here is is putting it together this time around so that relationship is ending. She met someone at an Apple show actually at some point and I think they reconnected down the line. He's from Norway, so I don't know if they had moved to Norway yet, but certainly she is traveling to Norway. She's been to Norway. Sandal is a city in Norway where eventually she'd move with her new husband. And the more I listen to Sandal's song, the more I hear hear it as a like you make love and fun esque tale. This is not rumors but it's them talking to each other. And this is Hillary's song for her new love in. In her life. And it's just beautiful. And so when you're down I'll lift you up. I'll be the one who's always sure of where you are. And all the things I need to know. And when you're tired and think the moon forgot to shine on you. You'll see just wait for me to show you. Like this is so much better than that thing I had before. And listen to. We've talked about how good she is on the drum kit. Listen to her just savage. Just attack the drums on this track again. It's like she's pouring everything she has into what she likely knows is her last contribution to an Apples and Stereo album.

[A]

And so when you're down I'll lift you up. I'll be the one who's always sure of where you are. And all the things you need to know. And when you're tired and think the moon for God to shine on you. You'll see Just wait for me to shine of you.

[B]

It's amazing. The very next full band song is Schneider's Buckingham Reply. It's called Play Tough. And I think we know the day the marriage dissolved, it might have been Saturday. Saturday, you woke me up from a dream torn out of the pages of a magazine. Saturday, you woke me up into a drag. Saturday is not the ideal day to break up. Don't you know it Time. It takes a little time to wake up these. These dreamy verses. And then you get the stiffened, rough chorus where he talks about, you gotta play tough, my love when you play me for a fool. It's like his little response here they're back to back on the record. I can't help but read a little bit more into it than I previously did, which gives those songs an added level of power.

[A]

Saturday is not the ideal day to break up. Don't you know it takes a little time to wake up? You gotta play tough, my love. Whoa, whoa, you gotta play cool. Whoa, whoa. You gotta play tough, my love. When you blame me for a fool. You gotta play tough, my love. Whoa, whoa, you gotta play play cool. Whoa, whoa, you gotta play tough, my love. When you play me for a.

[B]

Two. Two more. Seven. Seven Stars. Seven Stars and open eyes on the back half of this record. I. I get lost in their beauty. I love these songs so much. Seven Stars is an achingly beautiful. Mention this on X. So both rock stars turned professors that I know about, Dave Lowry, David Lowry and Robert Schneider both wrote songs specifically referencing the constellation Pleiades for Lowry. It was. I'm a little rocket ship cracker. And then seven stars here for the apples and stereo. I don't know what insight to glean from that, but it's true.

[D]

So please, we need to plumb the depths of Brian May's work. That's true. He did it.

[B]

Yeah. Pleiades, the Seven Sisters constellation. Very bright, visible almost everywhere on Earth. It helped determine the start and end of the sailing season and old times of the Mediterranean. And I love the music to Seven Seas. And the more I listen to the lyrics of Seven Seas, I see this as a song about as many Apple songs are about curiosity and discovery. You kind of have this conversation in seven stars between, or at least a one sided conversation between two people. And this one person is saying, saying like you kind of look up at the stars and you see the stars and you say, wow, the stars are cool and they're bright and they're beautiful. And I'm not going to deny that. But don't you know there's more to it than that? Don't you know there's more to how the constellations came to be and what they signify and how they were used in the past? And like, so you know the rhyme. So you know the rhyme. Do you know the reasons? Do you wonder why he's not making fun of the other guy? He's just saying, don't you, aren't you curious about this stuff? Don't you want to know more about this stuff? It's like that professor's kind of mind. I want to look and find out these, this stuff. I want to know more about how this all works.

[A]

Silver scars in your hand, in your hand. I know it's seasonal. Several times I have heard your demand. You're so unreasonable and you don't even know my name. And I know every constellation. So many.

[B]

That's seven stars. And then Open Eyes is I. I sent you this, this little document, mini, mini documentary on the making of this record. And there's a section of it where they're recording these, the guitars to Open Eyes. Open Eyes comes at you like the ocean. It just comes at you in waves of riffs. And this has a very trippy, psychedelic feel to it. They sort of return to a little bit of the past. This is too about awakening and this desire for clarity. Now you lie there with open eyes. And now you sleep by the phone and you weep on your own. You know you're not alone. These songs become these perfect, perfect matchups. These perfect combinations of lyrics, tone, feel Music I am moved, I am genuinely moved by the music that Schneider and Hillary are writing on this record.

[A]

See, when you are afraid of the dark Afraid of the dark

[D]

what did

[A]

you do when you O, I'm from the crow H from the cold what you believe the whale you be back again that you come back again what do you see when you are inside a star Inside a star? Now you are there with open eyes and have you seen.

[B]

Well, I just.

[C]

I always wonder when I listen to the lyrics to these songs, like, is Rob Schneider writing to or for or about like a character? Because it feels like these. These songs are all addressed to, like a neurotic girl that he's singing to. Is it Hillary, Sydney? Is it somebody that he imagines or somebody knows? Because I think of like a beautiful machine, which is the ending of this record.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Parts one and two and then three and four. And this is like an explanation experiment that absolutely works. It's, you know, four part song, I suppose. I don't think of it that way. I think of it as two parts. But the lyrics are fascinating. Paralyzed in your bed you close your eyes. Ciphers read Paralyzed in your bed you lose your head and you know nobody in Nobody knows you better to leave the light on your room. It's. It's almost like dear Prudence, like he's singing to, like a person who's gotten catatonic with fear about the vastness of the cosmos or the weirdness of the world.

[A]

Paranoid in your sleep and you have a voice silently. Paranoid in your sleep and you try to see. Paralyzed in your bed and you close your eyes. Signs read heaven light in your bed and you put your hand and you now go Nobody knows you better leave a light on in your room and you know nobody knows you better.

[C]

You have a beautiful disease the way you are in this world as though you were not meant to be. You're too frail for this. This terrifying and cruel world of ours. That's where I get the dear Prudence vibe from. But it's a fantastic. Two fantastic, beautiful songs that this kind of like elegies. There's. There's almost like a farewell in that. And boy, you know, if the relationship was coming to an end at this time, that might be what it's about. I don't know enough to know, but there's something very wistful about this music that you didn't really hear in earlier Apples songs.

[A]

Sam.

[D]

Machine, especially parts three and four. Remind me. I get some. Do you realize vibes from yes or

[C]

what is the light. Flaming Lips, do you realize? And also, like, what is the Light? Which is a similar song that also comes to foreign energy, which is the other one I was going to mention. I'm sorry, I completely interrupted you, Jack. But just like, you know, the. The lyrics, you know, on a song, like energy is like the world is full of energy. You just have to be a good. Out there, open your eyes and see it. That's very Wayne Coin. It's. Except I don't think Robert Schneider is on LSD the way Wayne Coyne is.

[B]

There's also at least three science lessons in the. In this. On this album. Energy, same old drag, which is just about, like, depression and actual drag. Scientific drag. And then radiation. Proper amount of radiation. Good. Too much radiation.

[D]

Not good.

[B]

You learn all that on this record?

[D]

Yeah, I think that it's a science lesson. Radiation is also. I think it becomes. Becomes a very metaphorical thing for.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[D]

How. And so we're. We're 2007 at this point. It seems so quaint, but I think you could. You could already detect by then that we were going to be swamped with way more stuff digitally than we could. Than our brains, our little monkey brains could handle. Too much information, you know, or too much radiation, you know, it gets in your mind. Too much information, you know that it's undefined. And then.

[B]

Too many distractions, too many reactions.

[D]

Yeah, you get. You got to get back to the place that you can believe in. You got to find something you can actually hold on to in the stream of what's already out there. But now here we are in 2026, and I'm thinking of these lyrics and saying, I'm traveling through space and time to tell these guys. Get ready for Twitter. I guess Twitter may have existed.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, seven. Yeah.

[C]

No, 2010, I think, is when Twitter.

[D]

Okay, so Twitter doesn't exist. YouTube exists. Tik Tok's not. Not there yet. AI definitely not there yet. Get ready for more stuff like that.

[A]

Too many distraction. Know that you can't stand still. Too many reactions. Know that you have no will. You gotta get back to the place that you can't believe in. You gotta get back to that place and you know you're gonna see your friends again. You gotta get back to the place that you can't and be free.

[D]

What else on this album worth talking about so much? So Jeff already mentioned, or Scott already mentioned, same old drag. I like that song. Great deal. I also like that it has a little sequel. Joanie, don't you worry. This Reminds me of some ELO B sides. One in particular, second time around off of the Discovery sessions. And it's a nice little like, oh, I mean, I know your life is kind of a bummer, but things are going to get better. Don't worry.

[A]

You worry. There is so much you have to say. Show me. Don't you worry. There is so much you have to show me. Don't you worry.

[D]

There's a. There's. Jeff mentioned. There's wistfulness on this album. There's also still hope and optimism. I mean, there's kind of both. There's. I view energy and radiation. The songs on this album as two sides of the same coin. World is full of exciting, great things, but also, if there. There's also radiation and there's too much of that, you might. Might become a problem. Oh, what else? There's so much good on this album. I'm. I'm going to. I'm not sure I like it as much as Scott does. I'm not sure if anyone likes it as much as Scott does.

[B]

Point taken.

[D]

But. But what? Hasn't been mentioned. Oh, no one. Has anyone mentioned. Can you feel it, the opener.

[B]

Not yet.

[D]

This is a great opener. I've already mentioned that these guys know how to open an album, but, man, this drags you. Or. I'm not even dragged in. I am effortlessly glided into this album with this song. And I like how at the end, there's this sort of pseudo live. It's almost. They. They pretend that they're performing it live and I don't know, in some kind of like, Betty and the jets type way. And you have people complaining. It's what it sounds like to me, that things are too loud.

[B]

Too loud.

[D]

Yeah. Right. But I'm not complaining. It's great. And Scott's already mentioned Play Tough and Seven Stars. He said more about both of those than I could. I'll just say I like them both. I guess I'll close by asking a question, which is, is my pretend. Is this supposed to be a kind of bonus track, little hidden coda type deal? Is that the. Is that why that's there?

[B]

So it's. Yeah. I mean, it's on the official track listing. It's not a hidden track like. Like Abbey Road or something like that. So it's meant to be on the track listing, but I always. You know, we had a. We had a special episode, exclusive content that was best album closers. And I just counted Beautiful Machine as the album closer. That's. That's the album Closer I look at my pretend it's just a goodbye It's a goodbye Time is a way of passing by can't you stay for dinner Stay a little longer, my friend, my pretend like it's just a little. That's just another reason why I think it's such a perfectly sequenced and designed record. Like you get this little 45 second throw off my pretend at the end of all this stuff that essentially says, thanks for stopping by and listening to my record. I wish you could stay longer Too bad, my friend can't you stay a little longer?

[A]

Can't you stay for dinner My friends All of my life have a way of just falling behind can't you stay a little longer? Can't you stay for dinner, my friend,

[D]

my priest well, let's stay just a little bit longer on New Magnetic Wonder, because I want to ask Scott to elaborate on something he said. What is. Is there a. Is this an actual concept album? You seem to suggest that there is a story to it. Are you. Were you describing the stories of the individual songs?

[B]

Yeah, I think it's so. There's so much Apples and Stereo, as you guys well know now, that sort of all, you know, revolve around the same points, right? Hopes and dreams. What happens in dreams? What's dream? What's real reality? How do you find motivation, finding clarity in life or discovering the answer to something that you've been looking for? And I don't think that there is a linear story through New Magnetic Wonder as much as it does this really perfect job of combining all of those themes that Schneider's been working with and working on throughout his music career and packaging them in this way. When I say journey, I don't mean journey like a narrative. I just mean when you listen to this record start to finish, you are moved emotionally, in my case, but also sort of moved almost physically along by the way they've chosen to stack the songs and move you through these little interstitial things. Between the stories songs, it's a journey that you take along with him. Musically, I don't know if I'd argue that there's some sort of narrative that goes from start to finish. I think there are internal narratives. Like I said, the back and forth Sundahl song and Play Tough. I think Seven Stars and Open Eyes are sort of related in a way of thinking about discovery and curiosity. And then Open Eyes, this awakening or finding clarity in life, really, even down to the fact that there's three songs that reference some sort of story science, you know, Something to do with science, energy and drag and, and radiation and all these things. So I, I just think it all fits together really seamlessly.

[A]

Tony, I got your message. Psychic constellations. You're going on a voyage. Capital destination. It's the same old dry. Oh, you know you don't need none of that. Oh, you know you don't need.

[D]

Yeah, it's thematic unity, but not a narrative.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Okay, I accept that. And it works. It works great. You're right. I, I. You haven't said anything. Have we said anything bad about this album? Can. Is it possible to.

[B]

Jeff, can. Jeff's ready.

[D]

Yeah. Find some bad opinion for us.

[C]

Don't you put this on me. I have nothing bad to say about New Magnetic Wonder. It's a fantastic record. It's a record, of course, it just hasn't had enough time to sink in for me the way it has. Both of you. It's his brand new. New to me, but it's.

[D]

This isn't that new. This is. I guess I'm a little more experienced with it than you are, but not by that much. But, yeah, point taken.

[B]

And I would just, I mean, I mentioned this a few times too. I just think those, those little, those little linking tracks work better here than anywhere else in their career. Jack mentioned Joanie, don't you worry, which could be a full song. It's only 47 seconds, but it, it evolves and develops. You have stomps and hand claps as they get to the end. The hello Lola, which is the beginning of the second record, or at least the second half of the record. You have these little things that end up connecting and they all really work very well.

[C]

Well, I don't really actually have that much to add about New Magnet. Yeah, it's hard to come out of my mouth. New Magnetic Wonder. I don't really have much to add because you guys have said most of it already. I, I would say I'm not convinced by the Non Pythagorean compositions. That to me is just like, that's it.

[B]

I mean, I don't think he ever returned to it, so I don't convinced he was about it.

[D]

There's a funny line in the book about this, that the author writes the music he created. The Non Pythagorean music did not sound especially good, but it was pleasing to him, mathematically.

[C]

There you go. That's exactly the point. So that's the waste on this record, but everything else is wonderful and worth your time. And in fact, I guess the one thing I'd Observe is that there's nothing lo fi about this music anymore.

[B]

No, no.

[C]

It's a slick album.

[D]

Robert Schneider knows what he's. He's doing now.

[B]

And I also say this is where I mentioned. This is where the ELO influence really takes precedent.

[D]

Really.

[B]

Especially on. On the next album. But on New Magnetic Wonder, that's where that becomes sort of the overriding influence on a lot of the. A lot of the songs.

[C]

And I guess the question I have is before we. Unless you guys aren't done here, before we move on and talk about that next album, does anybody have anything they want to say about this electronic projects for musicians? Because I was. I was. I was surprised by it. I was surprised that the B Sides and Outtakes is a really short little compilation. Apparently they couldn't put as many songs on it as they wanted to because of rights issues. So there's like the Look Away ep, some stuff that I've listened to, but we didn't comment on that. That isn't here. But this is just a really good. These are all. 14 of. These are solid songs that have a reason to exist. They ended up on like Japanese bonus, you know, you know, either bonus 7 inches or like the Japanese releases of CDs, stuff like that. But I really love the Apple's theme song, which I know J. Jack already mentioned. And I love Dreams, which is apparently an outtake from Tonesou Evolution that they. They finally finished up for this record. And it's just a wonderfully drifty. It doesn't actually sound like anything that would have been on the Toneso Evolution album. It sounds much more mature, much more dreamy and drifty and thoughtful than that. And I guess I really wanted to mention this. This record because we want to talk about the Stephen Colbert song.

[D]

I was waiting for someone to joke about this. Yes. This is the crowning achievement of the Apples.

[C]

I was about to say. I mean, this is the peak Apples moment is Stephen. Stephen, which apparently was written. They were doing some sort of like, you know, like, record there with Franz Ferdinand as well. They were trying to insult one another in musical form. And so that. That works into that song.

[D]

But even that Decemberists get a dig.

[B]

That's.

[C]

That's what it is. Okay. But even for a song about a guy I dislike as much as Stephen

[D]

Colbert, who's now said to ruin the Lord of the Rings, by the way.

[C]

I know. I was wondering what you would think about that in particular. Jack, we need.

[D]

I need to write this take, but we need to. I think we need to let Stephen Colbert keep his show so that he can be quarantined from going into. Because he did something on Star Trek too.

[C]

Oh my gosh.

[D]

Anyway, I don't want to get into that. This is. This is non political beyond the can of the show.

[C]

Yes, indeed. But anyway, so what do we want to say about. I guess the final. I suppose it'll have to be the final one. Although, you know, the final Apples and Stereo album is Travelers in Space and Time came out in 2010. I believe that one of the band members is now dead and that's why I wasn't sure about that. But it probably won't, you know, given the fact that he's a professor now somewhere in northern Michigan. There probably isn't going to be any further albums by the Apples and Stereo, but boy, do they ever go out on a high note. There's nothing weak, there's nothing unprofessional. There's nothing even slightly saggy about Travelers in Space and Time. It is long. I was prepared to hate it because it's 53 minutes long. That's always a little bit too rambling for my tastes when it comes to records. But there are. There's no weak spots on this. On this album. I mean, everything except man. Maybe Wings Away is probably the one track on it I'd say is sort of weak. But that leaves me with 17 other songs. So again, you being drowned in riches with these guys.

[A]

Gets. When our world is. When our world is so confusing. When our world is so confusing.

[B]

There's a little bit of a kitchen sink vibe to it in that. That everyone gets to write a song and there's, you know, multiple people get to sing and it is 51 minutes. I. I liken it a little bit to welcome interstate managers from Fountains of Wayne in that it's a great record. If you shave two or three songs off, you might have like an all time sort of classic kind of record. It's just. Just a tiny bit. Just a tiny bit too long. But I want to give Jack the opportunity to open up Travelers and Time and Space and Time because A, one of his introductions and B, it is the most ELO thing they've got going on.

[D]

Oh yeah. I love this album. This is my. I'll say it outright. I've already made up my mind. This will be one of the two albums that I pick at the end of the show. This is. Yeah, this is the. The yellow influence comes on the most strongly on this album. Obviously Time, the yellow album from A1. If I remember correctly. But don't sleep on the Discovery Influence too. The underrated disco album. Disco very. As critics called it at the time. This is intended as a time capsule for listeners of the future. And look, if this is a time capsule that future people who listen to music discover. And I hope that they think this is what all of our music sounded like because that would make me very happy. Maybe they can do a sort of Star Trek thing and reconstruct a civilization. Civilization based on this sole artifact that our civilization sort of sloughed off. So there's all sorts of fun little. I'll keep elaborating on the ELO thing here. There's all sorts of fun little moments where songs. And this has to be intentional that I will. I would be shocked if it's not. They start out like they're going to be ELO songs that are already written that already exist.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So. But then they take off in a slightly different direction. But there's this little tip of the hat at the start. So Dignified Dignitary, for example, starts out with almost the exact same riff as do ya. What else has that Mr. Blue sky

[B]

is no Vacation is.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

No Vacation has that piano boogie. That ELO gallop. The cello. There's even some cello sweeps in the there. I mean absolutely.

[A]

Do I tell myself I'm doing fine.

[D]

Told you once. Which. Which I will mention here. Probably say more about in a bit. It starts off with a sort of like the evil woman piano, but then goes off in a whole bunch of directions. Actually, I'm just gonna start talking about this song now because I love it so much. This is a great. This is my. I'll also give the game away that this is my favorite Apple song. The one that sold me on the band. The one that I couldn't stop listening to when I went on my Traveler Through Space and Time quest. Prompted by Scott. And this is a. There. Scott mentioned there's a kitchen sink approach on this album. I think they threw the whole everything and the kitchen sink. It told you once they threw everything at the wall. And it all stuck. Every last bit stuck.

[B]

There's.

[D]

There's the material. You could. I don't know if you're a scientist like Robert Schneider. You could probably go into this song and extract two or three other songs from it. There's the material for. It's. There's multiple songs sort of stuffed in here. Multiple licks, multiple melodies. It's almost like he's showing off at this point. Like, look how much I can pack into one song. And it's also on top of this, it's clever. This is a romance song about how a guy would treat a girl, a girl who he thinks is being mistreated if if she decided to come and be with him instead. So I think that's a very indirect and roundabout way of actually communicating romantic affection. It. It's sort of the. The Emily Dickinson motto in one of her poems is tell all the truth, but tell it slant. This is Schneider in in.

[A]

I. What do you do to your baby? What do you do you. Once I told you twice.

[D]

What else is graded on here? Well, everything. I I love this album almost as much as Scott loves New Mega Magnetic Wonder. I even love the Little Interludes too, which like Strange Strange Solar System is fun. This this reminds me of. It's like mission off of a new world record packed into less than a minute. Then it falsely transitions into Dance Floor, which is a fun, propulsive song. A lot of those on here. Oh gosh, there's so much next year about the same time. This is sort of this album's equivalent of seven Stars, another space Journey song. Oh, I didn't even mention the way the album starts, which I think so Schneider may have known when he was producing this album that this this might be the last one because he intentionally opens it in what I think must be a fun trick noisemaker bookend. He has a narrator talking about what this album is going to be. And the narrator kind of sounds like Jeff Bridges. I don't think it is. But that sounds. That's that's what it the voice reminded me of. I I funnily enough, despite all of the, I think pretty obvious and intentional ELO tributes on here, the most ELO like song is the one that doesn't, as far as I can tell, have any direct allusions to it. That band's discography. And that's hey El Vader, which is a song that I I like a lot and is fun and they're from Fun Song.

[B]

Hey hey Elevator. Let me this is such a fascinating track to me. I think it's.

[C]

You guys are still in my notes here.

[B]

It's the best or second best song on the record. And the the comparisons I want to bring in here, I would never think I would bring into a an Apples and Stereo song. But do you guys know the Stardust song Music sounds better with you Is one one half a Daft Punk did this one off song album is Stardust. It has the same sort of I'm not doing a real good job. But if you hear that song, there's elements of that that are sort of looped in the hay Elevator and the chorus of hey Elevator, which was so fun. Elevator take me straight to your bed I The only comparison I could come up with, it's a Justin Timberlake esque chorus.

[C]

Yeah, just go funk. I mean, you've got. You've got modern beats and grooves.

[B]

Yes, it's. It's space disco is what Schneider said he was going for here. And hey Elevator is finding these influence points from not just elo, but sort of the. The more modern, dancey type type type of songs too. It's a really fascinating amalgam of things that come together on that track.

[A]

If I had my dream I'd be where you are in the. If I could be Anywhere I want to be. If I had my dream I'd be in your home Turn off the phone if I could be anywhere I want to be. Hello me to take me straight to your I'm so tired and I got a dream in my.

[C]

I. I have. I have very little to add to what you guys have already said about this. I will say only that I. I consider New Magnetic Wonder and Travelers in space and Time to be kind of of a picture piece. I didn't distinguish them the way that Scott does. Of course, he has a shrine built, a new Magnetic wonder in his room. But there was a note that I wrote when I was listening to the transition between no Vacation and Told you once. And it's just pure pop for now, people, because this is exactly what. I don't know if you're familiar with that album title. It's Nick Low. It's his debut album. That was what they called it in America. It was called the Jesus of Cool back in England. But pure pop for now, people, was a concept that. When I remember I heard it back in the day, I was like, I wanted it to sound like a certain thing, and it didn't. And this sounds like that thing, all right. This is like the kind of like, almost. It seems carefree, even though it's so worried over. So much attention to detail has gone into this music that it's amazing that it seems so light and it doesn't wear, like all of that. All of the attention given to it, like a burden. It just seems like very casual and tossed off. What were you saying, Scott? I was just.

[B]

If you describe this, I don't know if someone would say, oh, that's gonna sound awesome, but it does.

[C]

It does.

[B]

You Know I'm not like. Dream about the Future, which is the first real song.

[D]

Oh, we haven't mentioned that.

[B]

Man, that is a freaking.

[D]

So great.

[B]

That is a freaking fantastic song. Opens with these.

[D]

What do you see?

[C]

Right.

[B]

These rolling piano chords into this wonderfully irresistible bouncy groove. And as Jack was about to sing. Well, we could do it in harmony if you want. Just like they do it. What do you see? What do you see? When you dream about the future?

[A]

Me? You don't know what you do get. You don't know what you do to me. You don't know what to do what do you see? What do you secret.

[C]

When.

[A]

You dream about your mother do you say that you, you see when you dream Dream about future Dream about the future. When I tell you there's no other, you don't believe that When I tell you there's no love, you don't believe me.

[D]

I also like that. That idea is such an appealing one to me as a bit of a sci fi nerd. Like, if you can see into the future, do you see me? Am I there? Yeah, it's great.

[B]

I mean, that is. Again, it's front loaded. Dream about the future. Hey, Elevator are probably my two favorite tracks on the record. The rest of it's no Sleep Slouch. And they got Dance Floor, which was the single from the record they signed to Elijah Wood's record label. And he ends up appearing in the video for Dance Floor, which is again, an interesting little sort of getting older kind of rumination. Dance Floor isn't there anymore but my body's still moving Everything's falling away around me But I still want to live I still want to go.

[C]

So I saw the music video, and I think it was the first Apples and Stereo song that I listened to. And I was just like, first of all, you see Elijah Wood wandering through, and then you see him wake up basically like, you know, behind a green screen. And, like, the chubbiest guy with the biggest goofiest dork beard possible is singing in a very high, feminine voice. And it was so disjunctive. I can't imagine anybody who would like, you know, watch that video and say, like, I need to find out more of what this band is doing. But the song is really wonderful itself.

[D]

We really haven't mentioned much how, but both in the last album and especially in this album. Robert Schneider, it's almost like he discovers the vocateur for the first song.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[D]

He does things with it that no one outside of Peter Frampton has done, as far as I know. He has a lot of fun with that device. And it really. I think it really makes both albums better, more interesting, more dynamic, more lively. I enjoy the VOC. And I just.

[C]

I just related to, like. Like, ELO, basically, and Paul McCartney in the early 80s and stuff like that. So it doesn't even sound like it's a strange, like, play to me for him to pull this out. No. Sounds like. Well, it's more of the pastiche, you know, it's more of like, oh, we're finding the things that really worked in the great pop music of a different era and bringing them back. Yeah.

[D]

Well, last two things I want to mention about this album, at least the songs. Nobody but you, another very yellow song. Even there, even a lot of lyrics about rain.

[B]

It's not just elo, that's just a straight. That's almost a straight Burke Bacharach song. And it's. It's glorious. It's just glorious.

[A]

There's no one in the world. Like my little girl I gotta tell you there's someone in the world. Like my little girl

[D]

and I, I think. Was it Jeff? Were you the one who said that Wings Away doesn't really appeal to you that much?

[C]

Not much.

[D]

So I have more time for it, in part because of. To bring another bookend here. This is Bill Doss, who I don't think I've mentioned as part of the Elephant Six mythos yet. He was the main creative force behind Olivia Tremor Control. And I say was because he is now deceased. He's one of the people who are part of all this, who is no longer with us. Will Cullen Hart is also dead. And this makes it feel appropriate to me as a kind of bookend for everything that the Elephant Six was trying to do. It doubles the wistful and valedictory effect of that song, which is also the technically the second to last song, the penultimate song on the album, knowing that he's no longer alive. So I like that song. I understand it may not be a free everyone, but it is. It is a fitting way to conclude the album and to kind of put a stopper on what Elephant Six was up to.

[A]

Silence comes again.

[D]

I'll also mention time pilot the. The way the narrator from the beginning ends the album. I like the. The line you will use this record often. Which in my case is definitely true. They were right about that. But it's a fun little sci fi conceit. It seems that it's trying to convey the idea that this is used as some kind of way to, I don't know, maybe keep astronauts who are on a. Maybe on a hypersleep journey to another star system. It's the way that their minds are kept alive. And the last words. You hear something like, now you may awaken. So who knows what strange solar system we have woken up in.

[C]

This is actually the prequel to. This is the prequel to Project Hail Mary. This is everything that happens before the guy wakes up on the ship. I don't know if you guys have seen the film yet.

[D]

No, I'm actually going to, soon. But if what you. I want to believe what you say is true, because that would give me reason to like even more.

[C]

Yeah. Well, I guess that brings us. Unless I'm missing something that brings us to the end. There has been no apples and stereo recordings since then. Robert Schneider literally went back to law. Went back to law school.

[D]

Oh, God, we can't. A guy like that would never go to law school.

[C]

He actually did something more useful and interesting with his life. He's a mathematician now and a professor. So, you know. And of course, with the death of Bill Dost, apparently that means. And also the divorce from Hillary Sidney, that would actually. Actually make this the end of the rope.

[B]

I have one more point to make very quickly.

[C]

Oh, you do?

[B]

So actually, it ties into Jack's comment about the vocoder that Schneider's using. Travelers in Space is the first time he doesn't have Hillary around to do backing vocals and to sing with him on a lot of these tracks. I did wonder if that's.

[D]

So that's why he has to layer it.

[B]

I think that's one of the main reasons that he ends up using that technique on so many tracks. She's not there to do that anymore. Anymore. So.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yes, as Jeff mentioned, she's out of the band. Divorce. Robert Schneider's making a good living. I doubt. Never say Never. And it's not like they have a back catalog to mine. They can't play one hit on the. On the state fair tour. I'm just not sure we'll see them play again, but you never know. In the meantime, we've got the music

[C]

and what a discography it is, and we. I mean, great discovery for me.

[B]

Time now to tell you the two albums you should own. The five songs you have to hear from our band, the Apples in Stereo. Jack Butler with us, deputy editor for Free expression over at the Wall Street Journal Opinion Page. Jack, your two albums and your five songs.

[D]

Oh, I. I struggled over the second slot for the albums and I'm actually as a. As a heroic to help me out here here. I I sort of pulled a Jeff I'm going for coverage in a way that he sometimes does. I'm doing it today because I'm trying to introduce. Look, I'm. I'm trying to be an evangelist. Scott's converted me into this band so now I'm. I'm going to St. Paul the crap out of it here so so that people can get the mass maximum exposure to this material. So two albums her wallpaper Reverie. This will give you a good sense of early act Apples and Early Apples at their most conceptually focused and directed. The first time they are united in service of a particular conceit. As much as there is to enjoy on the previous albums. This is the this will give you the best exposure to what the Apples can do when they're. When they are doing something that intentional. And then of course travelers in Space and Time. I can't resist it. It's a great album not just because of the alo. It's a. A whole pop universe that I didn't really know existed and it started my exploration of it started here and it'll always be something I return to with pleasure. I will use this record often. As the narrator says, five songs. So like I said, I tried to go for coverage here. First song Pine away off of Fun Trick Noisemaker, the album closer. I enjoy this for the reasons that I already elaborated on, so I won't elaborate on the them here. Seems so off of Tonesou evolution in the sub genre of fun songs about UFOs and aliens that I'm partial to. Go off of the discovery of a world inside the moon again for all the reasons we've already discussed. Great song. Gives you perfect insight and sampling of that era of the Apples. I'll cheat a little bit here in a way that is really testing the guest's prerogative. And combined same old Drag and Joanie. Don't you worry. I view them as one song. Sue me off of New Magnetic Wonder. They're a great pair, even if they may not technically be the same song. And then I know I'm going for coverage and I know I've already mentioned Travelers in Space and Time, but I tried and I tried and I could could not resist mentioning Told you once Travelers in Space and Time. This is the song that sold me on the Apples. This is a song that is as firmly lodged in my head as pretty much any song that I know. And it'll give you a great sense of what this band can be and how fun and entertaining they are to listen to. So there you go.

[C]

Scott.

[D]

All right.

[B]

My two albums are the same album. I just looked at New Magnetic Wonder twice. No, I kidding. The other one is Discovery of a World Inside the Moon. Those would be the two best places to start as entry points, I think, and I just think everyone should hear New Magnetic Wonder, my five songs from the the Beginning era. I grabbed Shine a Light and that Hillary song Questions and Answers also. So Stream Running over from Discovery of World Inside the Moon, Baroque from Velocity of Sound, and then Dream about the Future from the most recent record, Travelers in Space and Time. Yes, I left off everything from New Magnetic Wonder. I am assuming that I've done such a good job of selling you on this record that you're automatically going to hear all of it. You need to hear all of New Magnetic Magnetic Wonder, plus the five songs I listed here today. Jeff.

[C]

All right, well, New Magnetic Wonder is not on my top two, so I. I don't want to contradict Scott, but I decided to go with her wallpaper Reverie, which it seems like a lot of us agree about. And the Discovery of the World Inside the Moon. It's just an obvious. In fact, I would actually argue that you should start with the Discovery of the World because that's just so immediate. It's going to hit you so so hard that you'll be. You'll become a fan. Now my songs will come from elsewhere. Shine Inside your Mind is the first one. It's an outtake from New Trick or Fun Trick Noisemaker, and I think it shows up on the B side set. The electronic projects try to remember from Tone Soul Evolution. It's them at their most kinks like. And I just, again, I love that answering flute noise or whatever the psychedelic whimsy they managed to conjure on that song. Energy from pneumatic Magnetic Wonder. That will be one that I pick because, yeah, it might be a single and it might be a little bit dippy in that pink Flick Flaming Lips way, but it's just so lovely and upbeat and the. The ending of New Magnetic Wonder, the beautiful machine parts one through four, if you know, if Butler could cheat. I can cheat. I'm not going to divide it into your show.

[D]

You can do whatever you want.

[C]

Parts one to two and parts three and four. And I will end with hey Elevator, which, you know, might be this weird kind of disco funk thing, but gosh, it's just so lovable, so energetic, so up and in Your face and, and, you know, it probably encapsulates the joy of this group as well as anything else you're going to hear by them. And what a wonderful joy it has been to discover this group.

[A]

I'm so tired and I got a dream in my. Take me straight to your When I look around When I look around it distracts me When I look around at the world today When I look around at the world today look around World today.

[D]

And I want to sneak in something here. There's an album that we haven't mentioned, which is the compilation Number One Hits Explosion. Oh, yeah. Which I love the title of. And it's, it's pretty good coverage, but I know we don't really believe in compilations on this show. I'm just bringing it up because the title is obviously, obviously ironic. None of these songs got anywhere close to the top of the top of the charts. But we talked about at the beginning how Schneider envisioned Elephant 6 as its own little pop universe. I'm happy to live in that universe. And in that universe, all these songs are hits. So, Robert Schneider, if you're out there lining canals with sound equipment or making AI have trees, talk with each other, whatever, I want you to know that you've introduced, you've created stuff that I really enjoy. And even if in this universe, Number One Hits Explosion is an ironic title, and the universe that you've created and the universe that I'm happy to inhabit, it is a real title. And these, the universe that I design, all these songs would be hits. So that's the Apples for you.

[B]

There we go, the political beats. Look at the music and career of the Apples in stereo. Thanks to our guest for returning to us just as my plan all along. Jack Butler, Deputy editor for Free Expression, new newsletter about politics and culture from the Wall Street Journal opinion page. You can follow him on xackbutler48154815. Jack, I'll be emailing you later with another band suggestion and we'll see you back in four years.

[D]

Oh, gosh. Okay, here we go.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[D]

Continues.

[B]

Jeff I'm so happy that you like this band anywhere close to as much as I liked Apples and Stereo. That is always gratifying to know that, that that appreciation is also inside you.

[C]

Yeah, it was pretty inevitable, wasn't it? I think you understand at this point the kinds of music I like.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you like this kind of music, stick around. I have good news for you. Stick around. Yeah.

[B]

That's more coming up next. Thank you for tuning in. Remember, you can join us at Our Patreon page patreon.com/poly Political beats all sorts of levels of support. There you get monthly exclusive content shows. We have tons of fun doing them. You should listen to them patreon.com politicalbeats Also subscribe for new episodes. Find [e-mail] Find us at Facebook. Also on X@politicalbeats this has been a presentation of National Review. This is Political Beats.

[C]

You will use this record often and each time you hear my voice, you

[A]

will become more mentally and physically relaxed than before.