This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss Trump's need for a face-saving exit amid his economically disastrous standoff with Iran over the Strait of Hormuz, how Kash Patel's defamation suit against The Atlantic could hurt him more than help him, and a controversial new Yale report on trust in higher education with guest and report committee co-chair Beverly Gage.

For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the personal and political dimensions of President Trump's new executive order aimed at increasing federal psychedelics research and therapeutic access for mental health treatments.

In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily Bazelon talks with journalist Mark Oppenheimer about his new book, Judy Blume: A Life. Oppenheimer, who spent years with Blume’s papers at Yale and conducted extensive interviews with the author herself, traces how a restless housewife in New Jersey became one of the most beloved—and most banned—writers in American history.

Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)

Podcast production by Kevin Bendis

Research by Emily Ditto

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