Political Thinking with Nick Robinson

Episode: “Build Baby Build”: The New Housing Secretary, Steve Reed

Date: September 12, 2025
Host: Nick Robinson (BBC Radio 4)
Guest: Steve Reed, Secretary of State for Housing, Communities, and Local Government

Overview

This episode features an in-depth, personal, and often candid conversation between Nick Robinson and Steve Reed, the recently appointed Housing Secretary following Angela Rayner’s resignation. The interview explores not only Reed’s immediate policy priorities—embodied in the slogan “Build, baby, build”—but also the personal, political, and communication challenges facing Labour as it seeks to demonstrate real change in government. Along the way, Reed reflects on his roots, past political battles, his relationship with Angela Rayner and Keir Starmer, and how Labour must adapt both its message and delivery for modern Britain.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Whirlwind Appointment and Angela Rayner's Resignation

• Reed narrates the chaotic weekend of the Cabinet reshuffle, his feelings about replacing a close friend, and the human dimension of political upheaval.
  • “The whole thing was a whirlwind… I had to stop thinking about all the things I’d been doing at DEFRA and start thinking myself into the role—leading the charge, building these 1.5 million homes.” (03:00)

2. “Build, Baby, Build”—Origins and Meaning

• Reed embraces the “build, baby, build” slogan—consciously echoing American political rhetoric—arguing it conveys urgency, vision, and the primacy of housing as economic and social bedrock.
  • “Build, baby, build means putting the dream of home ownership within reach of many more people than currently have it.” (06:00)
• Reed elaborates that the crisis in housing—lack of affordability, overcrowding, damp conditions—demands both a step-change in building and a new relationship with young people and communities.

3. Rethinking Political Communication

• Reed critiques exhausted political jargon—like “delivery”—and argues for visual, emotionally resonant communication that matches how people now consume information (podcasts, TikTok, Instagram).
  • “I associate [delivery] with postmen putting things through your letterbox. You don’t deliver homes, you build them… We have to talk to people in the terms that will fit the channels or the media they are listening to.” (06:50, 09:00)
• Reed discusses his personal crash course in TikTok over the summer, seeking to make Labour’s message shorter, sharper, and better adapted for modern platforms.

4. The Starmer Era: Backstory and Leadership

• Reed clarifies his role in Starmer’s ascent, Morgan McSweeney’s significance (Starmer’s Chief of Staff and Reed’s long-time ally), and the tough challenge Labour faced post-Corbyn.
  • “People were saying you could not win back power in one term… We not only won back power, we won it by a landslide.” (10:45)
• He reflects that the opposition within the Labour Party or “the real enemy”—is sometimes internal, and recalls previous fights against both the far left and far right.

5. Non-London, Non-Northern, Working-Class Identity

• Reed recounts his working-class roots in South London, his father’s job loss under Thatcher, and his lifelong determination to ensure economic change doesn’t leave communities behind.
  • “Change has to happen, but you need to support people through change so they can see a future in it for themselves, otherwise they will rebel against it.” (15:40)
• He acknowledges Labour lost its connection with working-class communities under Corbyn, becoming “taken over by a hyper-liberal group”, and says reconnecting is now at the heart of Starmer’s project.

6. The Challenge of Values: Migration, Culture, and Division

• Robinson presses Reed on accusations that Labour still seems out-of-touch on hot-button issues: immigration, culture wars, patriotism.
  • Reed insists the government’s reforms (e.g., on the water regulator or illegal immigration) will soon become “real visible change.”
  • “We mustn’t let one faction steal [the national flag] for themselves. That is the flag for all of us.” (22:12)

7. Housing Policy: Obstacles and Vested Interests

• Reed details the obstacles to rapid housebuilding: bureaucratic planning, local objectors, unhelpful regulation, NIMBYism, and the vested interests of developers.
  • “To deliver, you have to take on vested interests in order to deliver the things you want... We’ve got to speed this process up because that individual was a blocker.” (24:36)
• He is open to reforming planning but determined not to let environmental process be a fig leaf for inaction.
  • “We’re going to go ahead with the development. Some of the money that the developers will pay… will go to restore nature. So you get a win-win: economic growth and the restoration of nature.” (27:16)
• On “land banking” he says: “Land banking and sitting on it… We need to see what we can do to stop that very, very damaging practice.” (27:48)

8. Community Engagement vs. Development

• Reed advocates for true community participation—not blocking development, but shaping what gets built.
  • “People under our proposals will be able to influence the local plan… Once they’ve agreed the local plan, if a proposal comes along and it meets the requirements, the community have had their say.” (29:13)

9. Can Labour Meet Its Housing Targets?

• Robinson challenges Reed with estimates that Labour may only deliver half its housing target by 2029; Reed insists applications are now rising thanks to recent reforms and remains confident.
  • “I am confident we will get to 1.5 million… I’m going to accelerate the process, look at further barriers we can get out of the way—brownfield sites, for instance.” (30:09)
• He cites his own experience co-chairing the Vauxhall Nine Elms regeneration, arguing derelict city land should be turned into vibrant communities accessible to all.

10. Reed’s Political Identity and Labour’s Direction

• Reed’s persona is described as “an affable but steely presence. The kind of politician who makes a good friend and a bad enemy.” (32:01)
• Facing potential criticism from within Labour over strategy, Reed argues short-form media trains people to crave simple answers, but real change is slow and deep-rooted.
  • “You can’t do it overnight. We’re putting in place the building blocks for that change… We need to start showing that change.” (33:20)

11. The Need for Visible, Practical Change

• Reed stresses translating national ambition into local, tangible impact—“People are much more interested in what they see on their doorstep and in their neighbourhood than they are in some of the really big strategic issues.” (21:45)
• “Make change happen,” Reed says, when asked for a TikTok-length summation of his mission (34:07).
• “Build, baby, build.” (34:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Angela Rayner’s resignation:
  “It’s very painful… There are these events you watch on TV news and it’s quite odd when you suddenly find yourself and the people around you in the news.” (04:17)

• On the power of language:
  “If you use language which isn’t attractive, isn’t engaging, isn’t visual, we sometimes don’t get our message across—and that has been one of our problems, this crisis.” (07:00)

• On the shift in information culture:
  “Podcasts didn’t exist a few years ago… People get a lot more news from social media—TikTok, Instagram—platforms we weren’t even on.” (08:20)

• On working-class alienation:
  “We got taken over by a hyper-liberal group of people that lived in urban areas… It used to be the party of the working class.” (16:47)

• On patriotism:
  “I’ve never understood why we would let the far right capture our national flag. It’s for all of us… We can’t let one faction steal it for themselves.” (22:12)

• On obstacles to housing development:
  “There will always be people that are against change… We’ve got to speed this process up because that individual was a blocker.” (24:44)

• On developers and land banking:
  “Land banking and sitting on it… We need to see what we can do to stop that very, very damaging practice.” (27:48)

• On the mission:
  “Time will tell, Nick, whether we can make that change real, but we are absolutely determined to do it.” (34:58)
  “Build, baby, build.” (34:15)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:43–03:34: Reed describes his appointment and Angela Rayner’s departure
• 05:15–06:25: Introduction of “Build baby build” and urgency of the housing crisis
• 06:43–08:42: Critique of “delivery” as political buzzword; importance of language
• 08:42–10:13: Social media, TikTok, and Labour’s communication strategy
• 10:40–12:38: Starmer’s leadership and the McSweeney connection
• 13:49–15:40: Reed’s personal journey from “inexperienced left-winger” to a pragmatic Labour activist
• 15:27–16:19: Early family experiences under Thatcher shaping Reed’s politics
• 16:47–17:59: Labour’s identity crisis with working-class voters
• 18:54–19:46: Labour’s current approach on values: borders, culture, visible reforms
• 21:34–22:47: The role/symbolism of flags and national identity
• 24:36–29:16: Obstacles to building: planning, local objections, environmental regulation, land banking
• 29:39–32:01: Housing targets, brownfield development, engaging communities
• 32:13–33:20: Reed’s reputation and his view of Labour’s internal disputes
• 34:05–34:15: TikTok-style soundbite: “Make change happen. Build, baby, build.”

Tone and Final Thoughts

The conversation is relaxed but direct, with Reed showing both personal warmth and passion for his mission, but also a steely-eyed willingness to “fight” for the outcomes he believes are necessary—even if that means facing down vested interests, entrenched party factions, or cautious colleagues.

The heart of the episode is Labour’s struggle—to reconnect with working people, to modernize its message and delivery, and to translate grand objectives into visible, everyday change. Reed is clear: change will be slower and harder than memes might suggest, but he is committed to making “build, baby, build” a reality—and not just for the next election cycle.

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode is an engaging and revealing look at the personality, motivations, and challenges of Steve Reed, and offers a window into the Labour government’s internal debates, core objectives, and honest self-appraisal as it tries to deliver—and, crucially, to communicate—meaningful change.