Podcast Summary: Political Thinking with Nick Robinson

Episode: Preparing Farage for Power: Danny Kruger on defecting to Reform UK

Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Nick Robinson (BBC Radio 4)
Guest: Danny Kruger, former Conservative MP, now Reform UK

Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Nick Robinson sits down with Danny Kruger, the former Conservative MP who has recently defected to Nigel Farage's Reform UK Party. Kruger, once considered part of the future Conservative leadership and known for his intellectual contributions (notably advocating for a Christian revival in public life), discusses why he left the party he's been deeply involved with for thirty years. The conversation explores his assessment of the Conservative party’s demise, his vision for Reform UK, the role of religion in politics, and his trenchant critique of progressive ideology ("the idea"), as well as personal stories about his philosophical evolution and family life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defecting from the Conservatives: Personal Struggle and Political Conviction

• Kruger’s emotional response to defecting:
  • "It was painful. It is painful and it was very painful on the day I did it. Not an enjoyable experience. I don’t recommend it if you're trying to have a good day to leave the party of more like 30 years." (01:19)
• Why he left:
  • The Conservatives, he argues, have failed to acknowledge the scope of their electoral and ideological problems since their defeat and have turned to a “unity at all costs” strategy he sees as ineffective.
  • "I approached [Nigel Farage]... I think you represent the best chance the country has, but also those of us of a Conservative disposition have, and I think I should join you." (04:32)

2. Shifting to Reform UK: Demands for Seriousness & Credibility

• Kruger was forthright with Farage:
  • "What I need to know, and I think what the whole country wants to know, is will Reform actually deliver? Will they make a plan for government that is coherent, credible, responsible and radical?" (04:48)
• Initial concerns about Reform’s fiscal policy (“spending money like drunken sailors” in July) have been allayed by recent commitments from Farage to cut welfare spending. (05:37–06:37)

3. Influence of U.S. and Western Politics

• Kruger met with U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance and sees parallels in the state of Western societies regarding migration and the overreaching state, albeit careful to distinguish his own less alarmist tone.
  • "I do agree with what the Vice President is saying... about the state of our country, both the problems we have due to mass migration over many years and the problems of an overweening state." (06:56)

4. Faith, Family, and the Roots of Ideology

• Kruger’s journey to Christianity was pivotal:
  • "There was a moment of conversion... when I was reading C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity,' and somewhere in that book... I became a Christian." (11:09)
• Sees faith as the core guiding principle—applies not just to himself, but to everyone:
  • "I think we are all religious beings." (12:36)
• Discusses respectful, often profound, disagreements with his mother, Prue Leith, particularly on assisted dying, but emphasizes familial warmth and the value of debate. (13:01–13:52)

5. Rejecting Individualism and ‘The Idea’

• Kruger critiques both his own youthful libertarianism and modern individualism:
  • "I became a communitarian at university... there’s a we before an I. Freedom and individualism are the products of a stable society and we can’t be properly free unless we meaningfully belong." (16:18)
• He distinguishes between “the idea” (individualism, progressive thought) and “the order” (tradition, community, inherited values), warning that unchecked individualism is “the root of evil in our society.” (15:50–16:18)
• On “woke” ideology:
  • "I wish we had a better name than 'woke'... it basically repudiates all these inherited associations and commitments around country, community, family... taking an axe to the root of our country." (21:06)

6. Approach to Islam and Multiculturalism

• Kruger makes nuanced, if controversial, points about the pace and scale of Muslim immigration and concerns about separate, parallel communities.
  • "Islam... brings with it the expectation that you will live in a certain way that is not conforming to the traditional habits of life of the UK... My concern is when whole cities essentially become Muslim, then we got change that... is not consistent with the best interests of our country." (24:29)
• Stresses importance of integration, gradual change, and upholding British values and law. (25:32)

7. Christian Values and Policy

• Insists conscience issues (assisted dying, abortion, gay marriage) should remain free votes, not party manifesto items. (27:13)
• Advocates for family, suggests welfare reform is needed to “actively support stability,” e.g., making marriage economically attractive and practicable through policy incentives. (28:35–31:01)

8. Relationship with Farage and Reform UK Leadership

• Kruger is helping to write Reform UK’s manifesto, drawing on his experience as a Conservative policy advisor.
  • "My role will be to lead that preparation for government work... so that when we get into government, we know what we’re doing." (38:46)

9. On Political Language and Tone

• Robinson challenges Kruger’s sometimes apocalyptic rhetoric; Kruger insists strong language is justified by the scale of public anxiety.
  • "How am I to speak at all if I can’t use terms like that? I’m not inviting people, in fact, I’m actually discouraging any form of political violence." (35:14)

10. Personal Reflections: Upbringing, Privilege, and Family

• Open on the impact of a privileged upbringing (Eton, Oxford, mother as a public figure). (14:23–14:57)
• Humorous and self-effacing about not watching his mother on Bake Off or sharing her culinary skills. (41:23–42:07)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the end of the Conservative Party:
  "With those words, my guest... abandoned the party he’d been all his life and joined Nigel Farage’s Reform UK instead." — Nick Robinson (00:07)
• On his emotional struggle to defect:
  "Not an enjoyable experience... I don't recommend it if you're trying to have a good day to leave the party of more like 30 years." — Danny Kruger (01:19)
• On the perceived dangers of 'individualism':
  "There’s a sort of terrible narcissism at the heart, I think, of modern culture, which is unnatural... There’s a we before an I." — Danny Kruger (16:18)
• On 'woke' ideology:
  "It basically repudiates all of these inherited associations and commitments around country, community, family, and... taking an axe to the root of our country." — Danny Kruger (21:06)
• On writing the David Cameron “hug a hoodie” speech:
  "I’m very proud of that speech. It was a lesson in political communication, because I discovered through it, you can’t get more than one idea in a headline." — Danny Kruger (17:38)
• On robust language in politics:
  "If that’s a version of violent language, it’s a very, very tame one. I mean, for goodness’ sake, how am I to speak at all if I can’t use terms like that?... I think the reason why we have divisive politics... is because the established parties have not acknowledged the scale of distress that the public feel." — Danny Kruger (35:14)
• On his role now:
  "My role will be to lead that preparation for government work... so that when we get into government, we know what we’re doing and that the system as a whole has been told in advance, this is what is coming." — Danny Kruger (39:58)

Important Timestamps

• 00:07 — Episode introduction and context
• 01:19 — Kruger describes emotional turmoil of leaving Conservatives
• 04:32 — Kruger explains reaching out to Farage
• 06:37 — On Reform Party’s policies and fiscal concerns
• 11:09 — Kruger’s conversion to Christianity
• 16:18 — Rejecting individualism, advocating community
• 21:06 — Defining and critiquing “woke” ideology
• 24:29 — On the “threat” posed by the growth of Islam
• 28:35 — Advocating policy support for marriage/family
• 31:01 — Welfare and family policy details
• 35:14 — Debate on rhetoric and the risk of violence
• 38:46 — Kruger on shaping Reform UK policy, preparing for government
• 41:23 — On not watching Bake Off or baking

Tone and Language

• Kruger’s tone is reflective and philosophical but also direct and forceful when discussing dangers he perceives to British society.
• Robinson is probing but allows for depth; occasionally humor softens the exchange (e.g., Bake Off, Puritans and Christmas).

Summary Takeaway

This episode is a deep-dive into the thinking and motivations of a prominent defector from the Conservative Party to Reform UK at a pivotal moment in British politics. It illuminates Kruger’s worldview—shaped by faith, privilege, and intellectual evolution—and his criticisms of both progressive individualism and Conservative strategic inertia. Listeners gain unique insights into both Kruger’s character and the direction Reform UK is likely headed under his policy influence, especially regarding the role of faith, family, and nation in public life.