Political Thinking with Nick Robinson
Episode: The Josh Babarinde One
Date: July 11, 2025
Guest: Josh Babarinde, Liberal Democrat MP, Justice Spokesperson
Episode Overview
In this episode, Nick Robinson hosts Josh Babarinde, the first Black Liberal Democrat MP and the party’s justice spokesperson. The conversation explores how Babarinde’s traumatic personal experiences with domestic abuse shaped his worldview and political mission, specifically his campaign to reform domestic abuse laws in the UK. The episode balances poignant, personal storytelling with insightful reflection on policy, youth justice, diversity, and political change, told in Babarinde’s own candid and optimistic tone.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Power of Personal Experience in Shaping Political Ambition
- Inspiration from Others: Josh recalls being deeply moved by Michelle Thompson’s 2016 Commons speech on surviving rape, which prompted him to confront and share his own childhood experiences of abuse.
“She got up...and spoke about her experience...and she said, ‘I am not a victim, I am a survivor.’ And that really changed a lot of things for me.” — Josh Babarinde (02:08)
- Breaking the Silence: He did not speak about his abuse until his mid-20s due to feelings of shame and concern for his mother’s feelings.
“A principal reason...was thinking about my mum and thinking about the guilt she would feel...Her words were, ‘I had just one job.’ And yeah, that will never leave me.” — Josh (03:12)
2. The Shared Nature of Abuse
- A Family Story: Josh emphasizes his journey is inseparably linked with his mother’s, making open dialogue and her blessing essential before making his story public.
“It’s our shared story. The domestic abuse at home for all that time is a shared experience. And it was so important to have her blessing.” — Josh (04:41)
3. Campaigning to Change Domestic Abuse Law
- The Legal Gap: Josh explains the lack of a specific legal offence for domestic abuse. Offenders are often convicted for crimes like ABH or GBH, indistinguishable from non-domestic assaults in the data or sentencing.
“There’s no way of distinguishing who is a domestic abuser...A domestic abuser could go down for ABH, but so too could someone from a pub fight.” — Josh (06:28)
- Implications: This hinders the ability to honour promises to victims (e.g., ensuring abusers are not released early) and means the government cannot track or analyze domestic abuse trends.
“If you make a commitment to victims and survivors, you better damn well keep it.” — Josh (08:02)
[08:46] Policy Solution—Aggravated Offence
- Proposal: Inspired by racially or religiously aggravated offences, Josh advocates tagging "domestic abuse" onto other crimes to create clear records and sentencing guidance.
“I was proposing that we have a domestic abuse-aggravated equivalent...” — Josh (08:46)
- Data Blind Spots: The government could not provide data on domestic abusers in prison or reoffending rates due to this legal gap.
“It is not currently possible to robustly calculate...because there is no specific offence or categorization.” — Josh (09:34)
[10:40] Government’s Response
- Victory and Ongoing Work: The government agrees to introduce a categorization, but via sentencing rather than charging. Josh insists implementation must guarantee protection for victims regarding early releases.
“I’m pushing for the government to give confirmation that...domestic abusers [will be] excluded from any future early release scheme.” — Josh (11:04)
4. The Overcrowded Prison System and Preventing Reoffending
- Root Problem: Most prisoners have prior offences, indicating prison is failing at rehabilitation.
"80% of people who are in there are people who have offended before. Prison is not working as a means of rehabilitation." — Josh (11:54)
- Personal Experience: Josh’s youth work and social enterprise experience inform his views on focusing on employment and belonging for crime prevention.
5. Building Influence and the Power of Networks
- Josh’s background as a youth worker, his link to current ministers (like James Timson, Prisons Minister), and persistent, relationship-based advocacy (with survivors and charities) were crucial to gaining political traction.
- Relentless Kindness:
“We had a saying...known as relentless intervention. You keep going back, even if you’re pushed away.” — Josh (15:17)
6. Youth Justice, Entrepreneurship, and Life Choices
- Social Enterprise Origins: Josh founded a business repairing phones to give young ex-offenders a route into tech and away from gangs.
“Employment is one of the single biggest factors that can reduce someone’s propensity to offend...Phone repair...ticked a lot of boxes.” — Josh (16:14)
- Lucky or Just Supported?: Josh credits his Eastbourne community, teachers, scout leaders, and local employers for giving him a hand up—“luck” not always available to his mentees.
“The only difference between them and I...was luck. I was lucky to have these things around me.” — Josh (18:04 & 18:54)
7. Political Identity, Motivation, and Diversity
- Becoming a Lib Dem:
- Personal values match liberalism: individuals and communities should have power and resources.
- Origin story: he joined the Liberal Democrats at 17 for a branded beer mat at a uni fair.
“It was a total throwaway thing...They wouldn’t let me have it unless I joined.” — Josh (21:10)
- Breaking Barriers:
- On being the first Black Lib Dem MP and promoting party diversity:
“I’m determined to try to diversify our party even further...Role models are super important.” — Josh (23:27, 24:18)
- Acknowledges the party’s white middle-class image and the broader need for all parties to diversify.
“I think we’ve got so much work to do, not just in the Liberal Democrats...across the political sphere altogether.” — Josh (25:05)
- On being the first Black Lib Dem MP and promoting party diversity:
[26:09] Notable Lighter Moment
“There are now seven of us [Joshes] from zero.” — Josh (26:09)
8. Impact vs. Headlines—Making a Difference
- Josh contrasts media attention–grabbing “outrage politics” with substantive policy wins, like his domestic abuse reform and the Lib Dem solar panel bill.
“If you are talking about the impact for people on the ground, then just look at some of the things Liberal Democrats are achieving.” — Josh (27:03)
9. Populism and Political Integrity
- Critiques politicians who exploit sensitive issues like grooming gangs only when politically expedient.
“I’ve been scathing of populist politicians who try to exploit people’s vulnerabilities and people’s traumas for their own political ends.” — Josh (28:30)
- Emphasizes working constructively across parties on shared goals, but maintains a critical liberal perspective.
10. Handling the ‘Next Leader’ Label and Racial Stereotypes
- Humble, slightly exasperated about being dubbed a 'future leader' or compared to Black politicians like Obama or David Lammy:
“Yeah. I mean, I’m my own person...I’m just Josh from Eastbourne.” — Josh (31:40)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Policy and Data:
“If you make a commitment to victims and survivors, you better damn well keep it.” — Josh (08:02)
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On the Power of Role Models:
“Role models are super important.” — Josh (24:18)
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On “Luck” and Support:
“The only difference between them and I...was luck.” — Josh (18:54)
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On Becoming a Lib Dem & Diversity:
“It was a total throwaway thing...They wouldn’t let me have it unless I joined.” — Josh (21:10)
“There are now seven of us [Joshes] from zero.” — Josh (26:09) -
On Being His Own Person:
“I’m my own man. I’ve had my own experiences. I’ve got my own things that I’m concerned about...I’m just Josh from Eastbourne.” — Josh (31:40)
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On Beginnings:
“That was my first election. My mum was my campaign manager, she played a blinder.” — Josh (32:29)
Timestamps of Key Segments
- [02:06] — Michelle Thompson’s speech inspiring Josh
- [03:12] — Telling his mother about the abuse
- [06:28] — Explaining the legal gap on domestic abuse
- [08:46] — Aggravated domestic abuse offence proposal
- [11:04] — Pushing for sentencing reform and safeguarding
- [15:17] — "Relentless intervention" and advocacy
- [16:14] — Social enterprise origins
- [18:54] — The role of luck and community
- [21:10] — Joining the Lib Dems (beer mat story)
- [23:27] — Diversity and party barriers
- [24:18] — Role models and mentorship
- [27:03] — On impact vs. media headlines
- [28:30] — Grooming gangs and populist politics
- [31:40] — On comparisons to other Black politicians
- [32:29] — Eastbourne’s cutest baby (humorous wrap-up)
Conclusion
This episode is a powerful and open portrait of how deeply personal stories—of trauma, resilience, and community—can inform not just political careers but also practical legislative change. Josh Babarinde’s story is gripping not for the drama of politics, but for his authenticity, humility, and relentless drive for systemic reform rooted in lived experience. Listeners gain insights into the state of domestic abuse policy, the mechanics of political change for opposition MPs, the importance of community and mentorship, and challenges of diversity in 21st-century British politics—all delivered in a hopeful, human tone.