Political Thinking with Nick Robinson
Episode: "The Keir Starmer Prime Minister One"
Date: July 4, 2025
Guest: Sir Keir Starmer, Prime Minister
Host: Nick Robinson
Overview
This special anniversary episode of Political Thinking features Nick Robinson in an extended, candid conversation with Prime Minister Keir Starmer at the end of his turbulent first year in office. The discussion centres on Starmer’s reflections about the year’s highs and lows: from Labour’s landslide victory and promises of change, to the collapse of his parliamentary majority following a major welfare reform rebellion. Starmer addresses questions of leadership, the role of pragmatism versus ideology, party unity, and the personal and political pressures at the top.
Key Themes & Discussion Points
Year in Review: Triumph to Turbulence
- Landmark Election Victory: Starmer began his premiership buoyed by a historic Labour landslide and a massive parliamentary majority.
- “We’ve changed the lives of people and that’s in the end, that’s why I came into politics.” (Keir Starmer, 01:38)
- Achievements: Drop in NHS waiting lists, school improvements, new school programs (uniform projects, breakfast clubs), and three new trade deals.
- Setbacks: The year ends with the majority evaporating—Labour MPs revolted against plans to cut the benefit bill, forcing high-profile U-turns and internal division.
Leadership & Taking Responsibility
- Reflection and Resilience:
- “I’m not going to pretend the last few days have been easy, they’ve been tough... We will come through it stronger, and that’s what I’ve always done.” (02:58)
- Admitting errors vs. Pragmatism: Starmer distinguishes between U-turns and evidence-based decision-making.
- On grooming gang inquiry: “You can badge these things as U-turns. It’s common sense to me.” (06:08)
- Starmer emphasizes pragmatism over ideology: “In the world that isn’t politics, it is commonplace for people to look again at a situation, judge it by the circumstances they now are, and make a decision accordingly.” (07:31)
Welfare Reform Crisis
- Policy and Process Breakdown:
- Starmer faced a major rebellion over proposals to cut the ballooning benefit bill, leading to scrapping key reforms.
- “We didn’t get the process right... We didn’t engage in the way that we should have done.” (10:34)
- Guiding Principles: Should work if possible, support into work, protection for those who can’t.
- “If you can work, you should... If you can’t work because you’ve got a serious severe disability, then you need to be protected and supported.” (14:56)
- Leadership Accountability: “When things don't go well, it is really important that the leader carries the can and and that's what I will always do.” (09:28)
What Does Starmer Stand For?
- Fairness as the Core Story: Starmer insists the essence of his government is fairness for working people, giving them “security, respect, and opportunity.”
- “The story of the government is a story of fairness... improving the lives of working people, giving them respect, giving them security, giving them the opportunity to live their lives in the way that they want.” (13:20)
- Personal History: Starmer references his mother’s lifelong illness and amputation as influencing his focus on supporting the vulnerable.
- Handling Criticism: He acknowledges perceptions of giving up on tough reforms, attributing decisions to collective, values-driven reasoning rather than personal retreat.
The Chancellor’s Crisis & Fiscal Fallout
- Rachel Reeves' Emotional Moment: Starmer addresses speculation about Reeves’ emotional state but insists her distress was for “personal reasons,” not political ones.
- “She's done an excellent job as Chancellor... she's going to be Chancellor into the next election and for many years afterwards, together.” (21:11)
- Budget Black Hole: Robinson presses on fiscal consequences of backtracking on benefit cuts; Starmer promises clarity in the coming budget while reaffirming his manifesto tax pledges.
NHS Reform: "Reform or Die"
- New Vision: Starmer’s flagship ten-year “Neighbourhood Health Service” aims to move care closer to communities and reduce dependency on hospitals.
- “If you don't reform, it is very hard to see how the NHS survives in its current form.” (25:44)
- Starmer takes pride in NHS improvements (extra appointments and reduced waiting lists), but stresses further modernization is critical.
Foreign Affairs vs. Domestic Focus
- Weight of World Events: Starmer explains that global turmoil (Ukraine, Middle East) means foreign affairs now dominate more of a PM’s time and have direct domestic impact (energy, prices).
- Relationship with Trump: Starmer describes forging a working relationship with President Trump, starting with personal outreach after Trump’s shooting and reciprocated during Starmer’s family loss.
- “He took the call straight away. It was the day after... A lot of our discussions are sort of important matters of state. Having a good relationship is in the national interest.” (30:47)
- Starmer recounts securing a UK-US trade deal to protect jobs, especially at JLR in Solihull, and fostering EU-UK agreements over informal talks with Macron.
- Justifying International Engagement: “Building those relationships with international leaders is hugely important. Getting to know people, what their instincts are, and that is in the national interest.” (33:08)
Immigration: Language, Policy, and Regret
- Controversial Phrasing: Starmer regrets aspects of wording (“island of strangers”), especially unintentional echoes of divisive rhetoric.
- “It was the phrase that I said I regretted because unbeknownst to me, it had links with Enoch Pow[ell]. I would never have done that had I known.” (36:40)
- Policy Emphasis: Stresses urgency of restoring trust and control; outlines efforts for better international cooperation and law enforcement against channel gangs.
- “We do need to give more powers to law enforcement, and we will.” (38:54)
- “Investing in ensuring I know, understand and have respect for and are respected by other leaders is in our national interest.” (39:27)
The Human Cost: Family and Personal Grief
- Brother’s Illness and Death: Starmer speaks movingly of shielding his brother’s final illness from public scrutiny; his family’s vulnerability shapes his politics.
- “These things are hard to do because you’re in front of the cameras doing a speech and then the next thing you know, you’re in a porter’s lift in the back of a hospital, talking to a brother who is very seriously ill.” (41:50)
- Protecting Family: Describes keeping home life private; cherishes proximity of Downing Street accommodation to spend time with wife and children.
- “As I get to the door, I stop being Prime Minister and when I get the other side of the door, I’m Dad.” (43:13)
Notable Quotes
-
On Achievements:
“We’ve changed the lives of people and that’s in the end, that’s why I came into politics.”
— Keir Starmer (01:38) -
On Taking Responsibility:
“When things don't go well, it is really important that the leader carries the can and and that's what I will always do.”
— Keir Starmer (09:28) -
On Pragmatism and U-turns:
“You can badge these things as U-turns. It’s common sense to me. If someone says to me, here’s some more information... I’m the kind of person that says, well, then, in which case, let’s do it.”
— Keir Starmer (06:08) -
On the Welfare Crisis:
“We didn’t get the process right, Nick. And as I say, Labour MPs are absolutely vested in this. It matters to them to get things like this right.”
— Keir Starmer (10:34) -
On NHS Reform:
“If you don't reform, it is very hard to see how the NHS survives in its current form... The nature of illness... What the health service has to deal with is so different... that we have to change.”
— Keir Starmer (25:44–26:32) -
On Immigration Rhetoric:
“It was the phrase that I said I regretted because unbeknownst to me, it had links with Enoch Powell. I would never have done that had I known.”
— Keir Starmer (36:40) -
Personal Loss:
“Look, it’s really hard to lose your brother to cancer... That's why I do understand firsthand what it means to have respect and security. That's why it’s hardwired into my politics.”
— Keir Starmer (40:04) -
On Leadership Under Pressure:
“Every challenge that's been put in front of me, I've risen to meet it. And we're going to continue in the same vein.”
— Keir Starmer (44:02)
Memorable Exchange
- On being “hard enough”:
- Robinson: "Are you a hard enough bastard to look in the mirror and say, I've got to change, the party's got to change. Something serious has to change in year two for Keir Starmer?" (45:27)
- Starmer: "I'm a hard enough bastard firing doubt who it was who said that so I can have a discussion with him." (46:00)
Selected Timestamps
- 00:37 — 03:19: Year-one highs and lows, overview of Labour’s progress
- 05:46 — 08:02: U-turns, Louise Casey inquiry, pragmatism in leadership
- 10:04 — 12:32: Welfare rebellion: what went wrong, leadership responsibility
- 14:14 — 18:11: Starmer’s family, welfare reform principles, personal values
- 19:15 — 21:42: Rachel Reeves’ difficulties and Starmer’s support
- 24:37 — 26:32: NHS reform, “Neighbourhood Health Service,” threats to survival
- 28:18 — 34:31: Foreign policy pressure, relationships with global leaders, UK trade deals
- 36:10 — 38:54: Immigration language slip, policy aims on immigration and enforcement
- 40:04 — 43:13: Grieving for his brother; dividing public and family life
- 43:46 — 46:26: Football, resilience, handling perceptions of losing party support
Takeaway
Keir Starmer presents himself as a pragmatic, problem-solving leader, more focused on making gains for working people than clinging to political dogma. He admits failings and process mistakes—most acutely on welfare reforms—while insisting his vision remains fairness and transformation. The year’s bruising political lessons, public doubts, and personal grief have, Starmer says, strengthened his resolve to drive reform, defend his team, and deliver on his promises—even as his popularity and majority ebb. The episode offers listeners a revealing, sometimes vulnerable portrait of the prime minister at a pivotal moment of reflection and resolve.