Political Thinking with Nick Robinson

Episode: The union leader who agrees with the Tory leader: Daniel Kebede

Date: January 16, 2026
Guest: Daniel Kebede, General Secretary of the National Education Union (NEU)
Host: Nick Robinson

Episode Overview

In this engaging and surprisingly warm-toned episode, Nick Robinson sits down with Daniel Kebede, the head of the UK's largest teaching union and a figure often painted as uncompromisingly radical. The conversation explores Kebede's unlikely public alliance with Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch on social media regulation, his personal history and motivations, his views on racism and education, union controversies, the challenges facing teachers, and his confrontation with the politics of Nigel Farage and Reform UK.

Kebede is candid about his principles, nuanced in discussing divisive issues, and reflective about his responsibility as a union leader. The episode reveals the personal stories that shaped his worldview and why he's prepared for industrial action—even as he reaches across political divides on pressing issues like child safety online.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Agreement with Kemi Badenoch on Social Media (03:20 - 07:57)

• Common Cause Across Party Lines:
  Kebede expresses total alignment with Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch on banning social media for under-16s.

• Collaboration:
  He's working with Lord Nash (Conservative peer) on a Children's Bill amendment, advocating to regulate big tech as strictly as tobacco companies.

• Quote:
  "I thought her interview on Kuensberg last week was fantastic... I couldn't determine whether it was something I'd written or what Kemi had indeed written." (03:36, Kebede)

• Public Health Framing:
  Draws attention to mental health impacts, referencing studies linking social media use to youth suicides.

• Legislative Challenges:
  Faces the reality that legislative bans may be subverted, but sees regulation as necessary due to the high stakes.

• Holding Tech Leaders Accountable:
  Calls for serious legal consequences for tech company owners (e.g., Elon Musk) if their platforms distribute indecent images of children.
  "If you had a shop that was distributing child pornography, that owner would be in jail. And I would like to see similar consequences for Elon Musk and the like." (07:14, Kebede)

2. Free Speech, Labels, and Personal Beliefs (08:52 - 10:46)

• On Being Labeled:
  Responds to being called "an avowed Marxist" and a "militant" by the press:
  "They like to label that as Marxist. I think that’s just what most people believe." (09:10, Kebede)
• Trade Unionism vs. Militancy:
  Admits to being steely and principled, not militant in temperament.

3. Personal Roots – Family, Childhood, and Anti-Racism (09:37 - 15:13)

• Single-Parent Upbringing:
  Reflects on growing up with a hardworking, striving single mother; exposure to financial hardship shaped his commitment to social justice.
  "My earliest memories... are of a single mother just about managing, struggling..." (09:54, Kebede)
• Mixed Heritage:
  Mother is British, father Ethiopian—visibility as a Black man in a leadership position is significant in union movement.
• Experiences with Racism:
  Cites a formative racist incident from school:
  "A trainee teacher at the time just came over and was like, 'You’re not in the jungle now, Daniel.'" (11:06, Kebede)
• Influence of Stephen Lawrence Case:
  "As a young black child [the Stephen Lawrence murder] being quite, quite terrifying." (11:06, Kebede)
• Early Activism:
  Describes first anti-fascist protest at age 17 against the National Front:
  "We knew that they were coming to our area and I suppose it was just a group of young men looking for a bit of drama." (13:42, Kebede)

4. Institutional Racism in Education (16:02 - 18:33)

• Belief in British Anti-Racism:
  Argues most Britons oppose racism but the curriculum remains institutionally exclusionary.
• Desire for Honest History:
  Calls for a "warts and all" teaching of British history, celebrating both anti-racist actions and confronting imperial wrongs.
  "We need to tell a warts and all history of Britain." (16:56, Kebede)
• On Winston Churchill:
  "We should take a wart and all view of Winston Churchill." (18:02, Kebede)

5. Public Persona, Rallies, and Empathy (18:58 - 25:02)

• Platform vs. Leadership Role:
  Admits to being more fiery at rallies, but as General Secretary, chooses words carefully.
• Controversy: Jewish MP Barred by Union Branch:
  Disapproves of barring any MP from schools, seeks open participation regardless of background.
  "I want as many MPs to visit as many schools as possible..." (20:13, Kebede)
• Past Comments on “Globalize the Intifada”:
  Distances himself from using such language now:
  "I cannot, and I certainly will not use phrases like that.” (23:14, Kebede)
• Emphasis on Empathy:
  "One thing that does need to happen in society is that we inject much more empathy into our discourse." (24:14, Kebede)

6. The State of Education—Pay, Funding, Prospects of a Strike (25:46 - 32:21)

• Critical of Labour Government Performance:
  Welcomes advances like lifting the two-child benefit cap, but believes teacher pay/conditions are worsening.
• Material Conditions:
  Quotes examples of deteriorating resources—broken toilets, inadequate photocopying—impacting morale and performance.
• Pay and Recruitment Crisis:
  "We are hemorrhaging the experience of our classrooms, which is not going to improve outcomes for young people..." (28:41, Kebede)
• Strike Ballot Preparation:
  Indicates industrial action is highly likely unless government meets demands:
  "Unless the government recognises a crisis and deal with it, I can see no other option than industrial action this year." (30:40, Kebede)

7. Special Educational Needs & Class Sizes (32:21 - 34:01)

• Advocacy for Inclusivity:
  Describes how smaller class sizes and more flexible curriculums could better serve some children currently placed in special education.
• Warning Against School Closures:
  Argues falling pupil numbers should be used to reduce class sizes, not shut schools.

8. Trans Rights, “Gender Critical” Debates, and Free Speech (34:24 - 37:02)

• Calls for Empathy in the Gender Debate:
  Insists on respect and compassion on all sides; defends academic freedom.
  "I want to see a left, indeed, a trade union movement and a society in which debate and discussion about difficult subjects and topics can be had in solidarity..." (36:14, Kebede)
• On Kathleen Stock:
  Supported her right to speak and work, disagreed with campaigns to silence her.

9. Tackling Nigel Farage and Hard-Right Politics (37:02 - 40:54)

• NEU Position on Reform UK:
  Strongly critical of Farage:
  "Nigel Farage is a hard right populist... a pound shop Donald Trump." (37:54, Kebede)

• Warns of “Hyper Austerity”:
  Predicts dire consequences for education if Reform UK's agenda prevails.

• Concerns over Tech in Education:
  Criticizes Elon Musk's vision of AI-led teaching.

• “Indoctrination” Accusation:
  Denies unions indoctrinate pupils; emphasizes teachers’ legal impartiality.

10. Motivation and Reflections on Leadership (41:20 - End)

• Views on Politics:
  Prefers trade union activism over direct political office:
  "The way I think that we change things is actually not necessarily through electing nice politicians, but more through our collective endeavour together through trade unions." (41:46, Kebede)

• Decline of Trade Union Power:
  Links reduction in union membership to declining living standards.

• On Influential Teachers:
  Expresses gratitude for teachers who nurtured debate and growth.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kebede on Aligning with the Right:
  "Absolutely, I'm completely aligned... I couldn't determine whether it was something I'd written or what Kemi had indeed written." (03:36)
• On Big Tech Accountability:
  "I would like to see similar consequences for Elon Musk and the like." (07:14)
• Reflecting on Racism:
  "A trainee teacher at the time just came over and was like, 'You’re not in the jungle now, Daniel.'" (11:06)
• Empathy in Public Discourse:
  "We inject much more empathy into our discourse." (24:14)
• On Strikes:
  "I would love to avoid it, but I think government need to make the right economic and political choices..." (31:28)
• Trade Unionism vs. Politics:
  "I’ve never wanted to become a politician... I love education. The way I think we change things is through our collective endeavour together through trade unions." (41:46)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Agreeing with Kemi Badenoch & Social Media Ban: 03:20 - 07:57
• Free Speech & Media Labels: 08:52 - 10:46
• Personal Roots and Early Experiences of Racism: 09:37 - 15:13
• Institutional Racism in Schools & History Curriculum: 16:02 - 18:33
• Controversies: Jewish MP, “Intifada” Comment: 18:58 - 25:02
• Pay, Funding, Prospects for Strike Action: 25:46 - 32:21
• Special Educational Needs & Class Sizes: 32:21 - 34:01
• Trans Rights, Free Speech, Kathleen Stock: 34:24 - 37:02
• Farage/Reform UK, Indoctrination Accusation: 37:02 - 40:54
• Motivation, Leadership, Why Not Enter Politics: 41:20 - End

Summary Tone and Conclusion

Kebede comes across as reflective, empathetic, and principled—committed to radical ideas but delivering them in a measured, open way. He’s unashamed of his activist past, steelier in his advocacy than the gentle tone suggests, and not afraid to challenge both left and right. The episode is rich in personal stories, candid admissions, and nuanced policy discussions, providing a vivid portrait of a union leader at the heart of Britain’s education and political debates.

For those interested in the intersections of education, politics, and activism in contemporary Britain, this episode is a standout—revealing, humanizing, and full of real insight into the beliefs and background shaping a major influence on UK schools.