A jolt of life for the kids online safety bill

Summary

POLITICO Tech Podcast: "A Jolt of Life for the Kids Online Safety Bill"

Release Date: December 10, 2024

In this episode of the POLITICO Tech podcast, host Stephen Overlea delves into the latest developments surrounding the Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA). As Congress approaches its year-end deadline, the episode explores whether recent endorsements and legislative adjustments can propel the bill to its final passage amidst political resistance and tight timelines.

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1. Legislative Landscape: Senate Actions and New Funding

The episode opens with Stephen Overlea outlining recent Senate movements. On a pivotal weekend, the Senate reached an agreement to allocate $3 billion toward replacing Chinese telecommunications equipment in U.S. networks, addressing national security concerns. Additionally, the deal includes up to $500 million for a tech hubs program aimed at fostering innovation across various regions in the country.

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2. Spotlight on the Kids Online Safety Act

The primary focus shifts to the Kids Online Safety Act, a bipartisan bill intended to enhance the protection of minors online. While the Senate has already passed KOSA with broad support, its journey in the House has been stalled due to opposition from Republican leaders who voice concerns over potential infringements on free speech.

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3. Influential Endorsements: Musk and Trump Jr. Enter the Debate

A significant turning point discussed is the unexpected support KOSA received from high-profile figures Elon Musk and Donald Trump Jr. Over the weekend, Musk tweeted, “[00:55] “Protecting kids should always be priority number one,” while Trump Jr. stated, “[00:58] “We can protect free speech and our kids at the same time. It's time for House Republicans to pass the Kids Online Safety Act ASAP.” These endorsements bring substantial visibility and momentum to the bill, raising questions about their impact on its legislative prospects.

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4. Bill Refinements: Addressing Free Speech and FTC Roles

Guest Ruth Reader, a political correspondent, provides an in-depth analysis of the recent changes made to KOSA. The sponsors, Senators Marsha Blackburn and Richard Blumenthal, have revised the bill to mitigate Republican concerns regarding free speech violations. Key amendments include:

• Clarification of FTC’s Authority: The bill now explicitly states that the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) cannot target specific content or viewpoints, ensuring that KOSA is not used as a tool for political agendas. Ruth explains, “[02:28] The bill clarifies that the FTC, for example, cannot go after like a particular piece of content or a particular point of view and use this bill to sort of, you know, make a political point.”

• Refinement of FTC’s Role: Emphasizing that the FTC will continue to address only unfair and deceptive practices, the amendments reassure that the agency’s existing capacities remain unchanged.

• Narrowing the Duty of Care: The concept of duty of care has been confined to specific areas, such as reducing compulsive use and addressing anxiety and depression linked to social media platforms, rather than imposing broad responsibilities on social media companies.

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5. Assessing the Impact of Musk and Trump Jr.'s Support

Overlea and Reader discuss the potential influence of Musk and Trump Jr.’s endorsements. Ruth notes, “[06:32] It's unclear, again, if [they] are going to hold steadfast or not. But it is the most interesting pressure that has emerged for this bill.” The involvement of these influential figures could sway undecided lawmakers and counteract opposition, especially given the bipartisan support and pressure from over 31 state attorneys general and 100+ organizations advocating for KOSA.

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6. Navigating Opposition: Big Tech’s Lobbying Efforts

Despite the growing support, KOSA faces formidable resistance from major technology companies. Ruth highlights, “[11:07] They have employed, you know, big tech lobbying power to make sure this bill doesn't get through.” These companies are actively campaigning against the bill, citing concerns over unintended consequences for both the tech industry and youth online safety. Their substantial lobbying resources and established influence in Washington pose significant hurdles to KOSA’s advancement.

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7. Path to Passage: Strategic Attachments and Time Constraints

With only a few weeks left in Congress, the likelihood of KOSA's passage hinges on its attachment to an end-of-year spending bill. Ruth explains, “[09:39] The goal, my understanding from anybody who supports this bill is to get it attached to an end of year spending bill.” However, the tight timeline and the complexity of negotiating bill language within a spending package make the scenario precarious. Overlea raises concerns about whether the necessary momentum can be sustained to navigate the legislative process swiftly enough.

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8. Political Ramifications: Republican Leadership Under Scrutiny

The episode probes the potential political fallout if KOSA fails to pass. With endorsements from figures close to former President Trump, there's speculation about the dynamics within the Republican party. Ruth posits, “[07:40] A question I am asking myself as a reporter is if this does not get passed, what does that mean for the relationship between, you know, the House Majority Leader and Speaker and Trump?” The tension between traditional Republican stances on free speech and the emerging pressure from Trump-aligned supporters could reshape future legislative priorities and party cohesion.

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9. Industry Alignment and Political Pressures

The discussion also touches on the nuanced positions within the tech industry. While some companies like Snap, Pinterest, and Microsoft have expressed support for KOSA, giants like Meta and Google continue their opposition. Ruth observes, “[12:25] There's a number of tech companies that have been supporting KOSA for a while.” The strategic alignment of these companies with political figures, such as Mark Zuckerberg’s meetings with Trump at Mar-a-Lago, underscores the intricate balance tech firms must maintain to navigate political pressures and business interests.

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Conclusion: Uncertain Prospects Amidst Dynamic Pressures

As the episode concludes, both hosts acknowledge the unpredictability enveloping KOSA’s fate. With Ruth stating, “[14:17] It's really one of those cases where the odds have been against this bill. And despite that, it has sort of surprised at a number of turns,” the future of the Kids Online Safety Act remains in flux. The interplay of bipartisan support, high-profile endorsements, persistent lobbying from big tech, and the pressing congressional deadline creates a complex environment where the bill's passage is far from assured.

For listeners keen on the intersection of technology and policy, this episode provides a comprehensive overview of the current state of KOSA, the forces at play influencing its trajectory, and the broader implications for online safety legislation in the United States.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ruth Reader ([02:28]): "The bill clarifies that the FTC, for example, cannot go after like a particular piece of content or a particular point of view and use this bill to sort of, you know, make a political point."

• Elon Musk ([05:55]): "Protecting kids should always be priority number one."

• Donald Trump Jr. ([05:58]): "We can protect free speech and our kids at the same time. It's time for House Republicans to pass the Kids Online Safety Act ASAP."

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Stay informed on the evolving landscape of technology and policy by subscribing to POLITICO Tech, and for more in-depth analysis, check out their newsletters Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech.

Transcript

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[Stephen Overlea]

Hey, welcome back to Politico tech. Today's Tuesday, December 10th. I'm Stephen Overlea. Congress has just a couple of weeks to pass legislation this year, and it was looking like lawmakers had few plans to take up tech bills. But in Washington, one weekend and a few tweets can make a world of difference. To start, the Senate worked out a deal on Saturday that would funnel $3 billion into a program that pays telecom companies to replace Chinese equipment in their networks. The deal would also provide up to $500 million for a tech hubs program meant to spur innovation in different parts of the country. But the bigger surprise over the weekend came in the form of tweets, one from Elon Musk and another from Donald Trump Jr. Backing the kids Online Safety Act. That bill has already passed the Senate with bipartisan support, but had largely stalled in the House due to Republican opposition. But now that Trump world is getting into the mix, it could suddenly become unstuck. My political colleague Ruth Reader has been covering all of the fits and starts surrounding the Kids Online Safety bill. And on the show today, we discuss whether these latest endorsements can get it over the finish line. Here's our conversation. Hey, Ruth, welcome back to Politico Tech.

[Ruth Reader]

Hey, thanks for having me.

[Stephen Overlea]

Of course. So let's talk about this last ditch effort that's underway to get kids online safety legislation passed before Congress adjourns for the year. The sponsors of that legislation, Senators Marsha Blackburn and Richard Blumenthal, announced on Saturday some updates dates to the text for the bill. What changes did they make?

[Ruth Reader]

So the updated bill language really gets at three main things and two that are really like in the crosshairs of the Republican leadership that opposes the bill. So they are concerned with whether or not this bill violates free speech. Right. So what the new language does is it highlights the ways in which this bill is really directed at, you know, getting social media companies to change some of the ways that their platform is designed to both, you know, keep kids hooked and to Send them content that might be dangerous. But again, this is not aimed at sort of getting social media platforms to remove content, really just refining the ways in which they serve it. So the bill clarifies that. And it clarifies that the ftc, for example, cannot go after like a particular piece of content or a particular point of view and use this bill to sort of, you know, make a political point. Essentially that's one piece. The other thing is it sort of again, refines the role of the ftc. FTC is really just acting in its existing capacities, going after unfair and deceptive practices, and it sort of highlights that. And then the third thing it does is it sort of narrows what's called the duty of care. And the duty of care is really again aimed at sort of appending responsibility to the social media platforms so that they act and design with kids in mind. Right. And so what that narrowing did was it focuses on mitigating against compulsive use and sort of mitigating against anxiety and depression that might arise from compulsive use of the platforms.

[Stephen Overlea]

Interesting. And so, you know, you mentioned that some of these changes were meant to address concerns raised by House Republican leadership. Is there any indication at this point that these changes will do enough to kind of placate them?

[Ruth Reader]

It is really early. I think we're going to see that this week. But I do know this, what these updates were meant to do were to do two things and we'll see how that plays out. But one thing is, so these changes were co written, you could say, or sort of negotiated with ex CEO Linda Yaccarino. And by bringing in industry to sort of mold the language, I think that was sort of designed to poke at criticism that says like that this is sort of not friendly to industry or in some ways. Right. Infringing on, on free speech. Which, you know, why would the CEO of X.com want to, you know, essentially back a bill that infringes on speech? The whole platform is about speech.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right, right.

[Ruth Reader]

And then the other thing, going back to sort of this free speech issue and also the ftc, there was concern aired in September when the House Energy and Commerce Committee advanced a version of this bill that the bill weaponizes the ftc. And so again, this is basically supposed to draw attention to the fact that the bill doesn't do these things. Whether or not the new language will actually land sort of unclear. But what I know from the various sponsors of the bill, both in the House and the Senate, is that they felt that basically that their bill was being misrepresented.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right.

[Ruth Reader]

You know, when it was being talked about. And so I think that, like, this sort of big public display and this sort of language change is really aimed at sort of quelling that.

[Stephen Overlea]

Got it. You mentioned Linda Yaccarino, the CEO of X, kind of coming out in support of this legislation over the weekend. We also heard from Elon Musk and from Donald Trump Jr. Who jumped into this debate. Elon Musk tweeted that, quote, protecting kids should always be priority number one. Donald Trump Jr. Tweeted, We can protect free speech and our kids at the same time. It's time for House Republicans to pass the Kids Online Safety act asap. It was fascinating to me to see, like, these outside voices jump into it, people who do have a lot of clout, especially online. How does their involvement move the needle in a meaningful way, if at all?

[Ruth Reader]

It's such a great question and something that I will be reporting on this week. But that said, I think there was a perception that this bill has basically been dead for months, Right. Because it just, it has opposition from Majority Leader Steve Scalise and the House Speaker, Mike Johnson. They have just not wanted to advance it largely on free speech grounds. Now, you have two people in the Trump orbit who are basically calling for this bill to get passed. It's unclear, again, if they're going to hold steadfast or not. Right. But it is the most interesting pressure that has emerged for this bill. And there's been a lot of pressure.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right?

[Ruth Reader]

Okay. There has been, you know, 31 states, Attorney General have called for the passage of this bill. Senators have called for the passage of this bill. You know, groups, over 100 organizations in recent days have called for the passage of this bill. There's a lot of pressure to pass this bill. And now you have.

[Stephen Overlea]

And bipartisan, we should add, it's bipartisan pressure.

[Ruth Reader]

Right. And it's bipartisan pressure to pass this bill. And so, you know, now you have this incoming Republican president who himself has not said anything about the Kids Online Safety act, but people very, very, very close to him are calling for its passage. I mean, a question I am asking myself as a reporter is if this does not get passed, what does that mean for the relationship between, you know, the House Majority Leader and Speaker and Trump? You know, come January, Right.

[Stephen Overlea]

I mean, there's going to be all sorts of political tests going forward. Right. Of, like, to what degree Republicans will just do anything Donald Trump tells them to do, or are they going to stand opposed in a meaningful way? And so, yeah, it's like, is the Kids Online Safety Act a hill that they really want to stand on or die on? Right. Or do they just sort of now that there's some Trump pressure involved or at least from those around him, does that sort of force their hand to say this is not something we feel strongly enough to fight against?

[Ruth Reader]

Right, exactly. Is this like, what, where does this rate in terms of battles? Right. I think that's interesting. I also think that because at the end of the day, you know, in order for this bill to get passed, right. It's going to just be appended to an end of year spending bill and that does sort of create some flexibility in terms of like what exactly is added. Right. You know, it's not an we're not in an all or nothing situation where it's like all of this bill language or nothing. They can kind of sort of create it however they want to. Do you know what I mean?

[Stephen Overlea]

Yep, for sure. Well, and that was one question I had that hopefully you can sort of illuminate for us, which is we only have a few weeks left in this Congress. Like what actually would need to happen in order for this legislation to pass? Is it most likely going to end up on a spending bill? And you know, realistically, even with this new momentum, is there enough time to actually make that happen?

[Ruth Reader]

I mean, so first of all, yes, the goal, my understanding from anybody who supports this bill is to get it attached to an end of year spending bill. That's sort of the play. And as far as time, I mean, there's not a lot of time, but I think that the bills backers have forced this into conversation in such a way that they're, I mean, I think it's plausible they could get something in. It still would be incredible if they did. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is not a small lift. This is a huge lift.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right.

[Ruth Reader]

But what happened over the weekend is substantial, I think, or it's certainly like it's, it gives this bill life I think it might not have had before.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right. It certainly makes it impossible to ignore.

[Ruth Reader]

Right, exactly.

[Stephen Overlea]

All sorts of questions now aimed at House leadership, frankly, of what this means. Will they support it being attached to a spending bill? And they're not going to be able to get out of answering that, I don't think. Certainly not from folks like Ruth Reader and other political reporters who are going to be putting this questions to them. I will say, though, you know, in just the last day or two, I have gotten a lot of messages from people who are still opposed to this law. Groups who say that it'll have unintended consequences, whether that's for the tech industry or for kids online safety. Right. There are groups who say, actually this is not sort of the holy grail for kids online safety in the way that it's being presented. I guess one question I have is what strategy do they have for kind of stopping this new momentum?

[Ruth Reader]

I mean, they have the same powers that they've always had. I think the group's sort of big tech hates this bill. Right. That's just a fact of the matter. They have employed, you know, big tech lobbying power to make sure this bill doesn't get through. And so they still have that. And that has been very effective so far.

[Stephen Overlea]

Yes.

[Ruth Reader]

And so, you know, I think they're gonna continue to do what they've been doing, which is sort of like, you know, going on their education campaigns, talking to various members of Congress. But I think that tech money still has sway in Washington. I don't think that that's changed.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right. And, you know, inertia is certainly on their side. I will say it's, you know, just like we were talking about the political pressure on House Republicans. If Trump and those in his orbit are supporting cosa, that also puts political pressure on the tech companies. Right. Because here you have Linda Yaccarino saying she supports it. So there's one, you know, tech social media executive backing it. You have Mark Zuckerberg going to Mar a Lago to meet with Trump. Right. There's clearly an interest in the industry and sort of aligning with Trump or at the very least not getting on his bad side, that I imagine creates some political pressure around this law too, for them.

[Ruth Reader]

I think so. And I mean, I do wonder whether, you know, is there. Is there a version that everybody can sort of agree to, or is there some language that, like, could satisfy sort of at a base level, some of these advocacy groups, you know, that Meta is willing to come to the table on. I don't know. But, you know, all these people are talking to your point. Right. So an interesting thing about this too, you know, in terms of, like, the opposition and support is that, like, there are actually a number of tech companies that have been supporting COSA for a while. Like, this is not X's first, you know, moment of support. I believe SNAP supports. Pinterest has come out, I want to say Microsoft as well. So there have been, you know, voices of support from the tech industry for this, which I think is interesting. But, you know, Meta and Google are also like the big fish.

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[Ruth Reader]

No. Yes.

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[Stephen Overlea]

You know, I guess as you look ahead, there's this rally happening today on Capitol Hill with groups, you know, supporting the legislation, trying to keep up this kind of drumbeat of attention. You know, if that continues. I mean, does this legislation have the ingredients it needs to pass at this point?

[Ruth Reader]

Oh, I don't know. Quite frankly, I wish I could really read the tea leaves on this one. But it's really one of those cases where the odds have been against this bill. And despite that, it has sort of surprised at a number of turns. And if it does manage to get into an end of year spending bill, it will be that kind of surprise again. So it is so hard. This is like the hard, these are the hardest tea leaves to read in some ways.

[Stephen Overlea]

So that's a good point. A lot of twists and turns. And so we'll see if there's still one ahead in the next couple weeks. Ruth, appreciate you being here on Politico Tech.

[Ruth Reader]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Stephen Overlea]

That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you enjoy Politico Tech, be sure to subscribe. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Our managing producer is Annie Reese. Our producer is Afraid Abdullah. I'm Stephen Overlea. See you back here tomorrow.