Former Rep. Will Hurd on Trump’s tech agenda

Summary

POLITICO Tech Podcast Summary: Former Rep. Will Hurd on Trump’s Tech Agenda
Release Date: January 27, 2025
Host: Stephen Overlea

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Introduction

In the January 27, 2025 episode of the POLITICO Tech podcast, host Stephen Overlea engages in an in-depth conversation with former Republican Congressman Will Hurd, now Chief Strategy Officer at Chaos Industries, a defense tech company. The discussion centers around President Donald Trump’s burgeoning tech agenda, recent executive actions, and the implications for technology policy and national security.

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Will Hurd’s Background and Relationship with Technology

Timestamp [02:07]

Will Hurd opens by reflecting on his cooperative relationship with Jared Kushner during Kushner’s tenure at the Office of American Innovation. Hurd emphasizes his extensive experience in technology procurement during his congressional years, highlighting his commitment to integrating advanced technology within government operations and national defense.

Will Hurd [02:30]: "I was the IT procurement guy when I was in Congress. I love all the conversation about how do you improve and get better tech into the government, but also how are we making sure our Warfighter is getting the best technology."

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Trump Administration’s Tech Policy Initiatives

Timestamp [02:12] - [04:36]

Overlea outlines the Trump administration’s aggressive tech policy moves, including delays on the TikTok ban, new AI initiatives, a crypto executive order, and a substantial $500 billion investment in AI infrastructure. Hurd responds by expressing optimism about the administration’s continued focus on technology, drawing parallels to his past collaborative efforts.

Will Hurd [04:19]: "This is one of those areas where there's actually real bipartisan cooperation... technology has been something that Republicans and Democrats can agree on."

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Influence of Elon Musk in the Administration

Timestamp [04:51] - [07:44]

The conversation shifts to Elon Musk’s role and influence within the Trump administration. Hurd views Musk’s involvement positively, citing Musk’s advocacy for technology modernization as beneficial for governmental agencies. He underscores the importance of adapting to technological changes in warfare, referencing the ongoing conflict in Ukraine as a case study for the necessity of advanced tech in defense.

Will Hurd [06:54]: "There's always going to be conflict, right? There's always going to be drama. That's part of the process... This is not going to be the last time we're going to have this issue."

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Smart AI Policy Recommendations

Timestamp [07:53] - [09:19]

Overlea probes Hurd on what constitutes a smart AI policy under Trump’s administration, especially in light of recent revocations of Biden-era orders. Hurd emphasizes the strategic use of AI in national security, intelligence translation, and improving government services, while advocating for legislative oversight to ensure compliance with legal standards.

Will Hurd [08:12]: "Are we using AI to translate intelligence that we have? There should be no longer any untranslated intelligence sitting on, sitting on the shelves."

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Optimism for Defense Tech and Pentagon Contracts

Timestamp [09:39] - [10:48]

Hurd shares his optimism regarding the Trump administration’s approach to defense technology, highlighting the demand for rapid technological advancements to support warfighters. He discusses the importance of shortening the technology adoption cycle within the military to maintain a strategic edge.

Will Hurd [10:48]: "There's a recognition from the top all the way to the bottom that having a three-year cycle of introducing new technology, it's old by the time it gets in their hands."

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Discussion on TikTok Ban and National Security

Timestamp [11:16] - [16:13]

The topic of the extended TikTok ban surfaces, with Hurd providing insights into the legislative provisions that allow for an extension pending potential agreements. He speculates on possible buyers, including high-profile individuals like Mr. Beast, and underscores the critical importance of TikTok’s algorithm in national security considerations.

Will Hurd [12:06]: "The algorithm is the secret sauce. And will ByteDance and the Chinese authorities want to have a competitor to ByteDance? It seems that the Chinese government has indicated that they're not going to tell a Chinese company what to do about whether it's their cap table or whether they sell."

Hurd also addresses the public’s disconnect with national security issues, noting that everyday concerns often overshadow strategic threats posed by technological dominance and geopolitical tensions.

Will Hurd [14:28]: "There's a disconnect, right. I think it’s a broader disconnect too, about what happens in Taiwan and why should we care about Taiwan?"

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Tech Leaders’ Support for Trump

Timestamp [16:13] - [17:41]

Hurd reflects on the surprising support from Silicon Valley leaders for the Trump administration, attributing it to the administration’s favorable policies towards technology industries. He maintains that cooperation between the public and private sectors is vital for national security and technological advancement, despite inherent political frictions.

Will Hurd [16:35]: "The people that he's bringing in, the positions are going to be something that are ultimately positive for those industries... it’s best for American citizens if the public sector and the private sector are working together."

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Conclusion

In concluding the episode, Overlea and Hurd reaffirm the importance of cohesive technology policies in national security and government efficiency. Hurd remains optimistic about the Trump administration’s direction in tech policy, emphasizing the potential for bipartisan cooperation and the pivotal role of advanced technology in safeguarding national interests.

Will Hurd [17:45]: "Always a pleasure."

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Key Takeaways

• Bipartisan Cooperation: Technology remains a bipartisan area where consensus is achievable, fostering collaborative advancements.

• AI in National Security: Strategic implementation of AI is crucial for intelligence operations, government services, and modern warfare.

• Defense Tech Investment: Significant investments and streamlined procurement processes are essential for maintaining military technological superiority.

• TikTok and National Security: The TikTok ban highlights the intersection of technology, national security, and international relations, with ongoing debates about data security and geopolitical influence.

• Public Perception: Bridging the gap between national security imperatives and public understanding is necessary for informed policy support.

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This comprehensive discussion with Will Hurd provides valuable insights into the current and future landscape of technology policy under the Trump administration, emphasizing the critical role of technology in national security and governance.

Transcript

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[Stephen Overlea]

Hey, welcome Back to POLITICO Tech. Today's Monday, January 27th. I'm Stephen Overlea. Last week was a fire hose of tech policy news. President Donald Trump burst into the White House signing a mountain of executive orders and unveiling new AI initiatives, with tech industry leaders cheering him on along the way. With so much happening, I wanted to get a sense of how much this all really matters and how does it potentially set tech up for the next four years. So I called up former Republican Congressman Will Hurd, who is now the chief strategy officer at a defense tech company called Chaos Industries. When he was in Congress, Heard held some of the first hearings on AI and wrote legislation to modernize how the government buys technology. But he wasn't a big backer of Trump. In fact, he even ran against him for the Republican nomination. Now, when it comes to tech, Heard tells me he was able to work with Trump's administration the first time around, and he sees an opportunity to do it again. On the show today, Heard weighs in on Trump's tech agenda so far. Here's our conversation. Well, Congressman, welcome back to POLITICO Tech.

[Will Hurd]

It's always a pleasure to be on here. And it wouldn't be at the start of a good new year if I wasn't on with you.

[Stephen Overlea]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, the first week of the Trump administration has come and gone. It's brought a flurry of executive actions on tech delaying the TikTok ban, revoking AI executive orders, a new crypto executive order, 500 billion in AI infrastructure. Where is your head at?

[Will Hurd]

Look, my head is I think this administration is going to continue what they did in the first administration when it came to tech policy. I go back to I had an amazing cooperative relationship with Jared Kushner when he had the Office of American Innovation. And, you know, and some of the key figures that President Trump has brought back or is bringing into this administration are folks that understand technology. Look, I was the IT procurement guy when I was in Congress. And so I love all the conversation about how do you improve and get better tech into the government, but also how are we making sure our Warfighter is getting the best technology as, as well. And look, I know everybody is interested in see, is somebody going to buy TikTok? What's going to happen?

[Stephen Overlea]

Right.

[Will Hurd]

We'll see how that unravels over the next 75 days.

[Stephen Overlea]

You know, I do want to start with sort of a disclaimer of sorts, which is you have been critical of President Trump in the past. You ran against him, you endorsed Nikki Haley for the Republican nomination. Is tech an area where you can sort of see some agreement with him or how do you think he'll do on tech specifically this time around?

[Will Hurd]

Sure, I think it's. Look, this was an area when I was in Congress that we worked, we worked well with and if you look at some of the advisors that he's bringing in, I think it's going to be excellent. Something I know a little about artificial intelligence. The fact that Michael Kratzio is coming back in the organization is great. Lynn Parker. Lynn Parker is, is a national treasure. Some of the work that, and the work she's been doing on AI has been pretty fantastic. And I appreciate the fact that on day one there was a major, you know, $500 billion announcement of an AI cooperation between leading companies that's going to impact my home state of Texas. Right. So.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right.

[Will Hurd]

So I think this is, this is one of those areas where there's actually real bipartisan cooperation and I can go all the way back to President Obama that this has, the area of technology has been something that, that Republicans and Democrats can agree on.

[Stephen Overlea]

You know, there are a lot of familiar faces returning in this administration, especially on tech. One new one that's quite obvious, I think is Elon Musk, who's been very influential. What are you making of his role and his influence in this administration so far?

[Will Hurd]

Look, as someone who I spent a lot of time working on things like improving how we get technology into the government. So the fact that you have a incredibly well known individual that is talking about these things and having public discourse around these issues about technology modernization is a positive thing. The fact that he's having an influence at the top within the administration is, is ultimately a good thing because there's a lot of people that want to see change happen in these agencies and having the COVID from the top is, is ultimately going to be a good thing. And I think this is a place where some early wins can be helpful because look, we still have to deal with Salt Typhoon and Volk Typhoon. There's a lot of conversations about what is TikTok doing and is this a national security threat. But we know the Chinese government has a persistent access into our telecommunication infrastructure, into our critical infrastructure as well, too. When you look at what's happening in the war in Ukraine, we have seen some American tech not perform the way we thought it was going to be able to form in that modern battlefield. So we have to be ready. The fact that a $20,000 drone can take out a multimillion dollar radar, this shows that the rules of warfare has changed. So we have to be focused on this. And the fact that there has been a lot of coverage of technology policy in the first week of a new administration, I think portends good things that we're going to grapple some of these things that we need to do.

[Stephen Overlea]

Is there a risk, you know, with Musk of distraction here, though? I mean, you know, one of the big stories, you know, you mentioned this $500 billion investment in AI data centers. You know, that story was quickly clouded by tension between Elon Musk and Sam Altman. It seems to me there may not be all upside here.

[Will Hurd]

I guess it's in Washington, D.C. baby. There's always going to be. There's always going to be conflict, right? There's always, there's always going to be drama. That's part of the process. So you take the good with the bad. At the end of the day, the fact that we're talking about energy, compute, and how do we ensure that American companies big and small have access to it is ultimately a good thing. There's never going to be anything where there's 100% agreement, and that's okay. That's what this is, you know, that's what the country is built on. So I'm not concerned about that. But guess what? This is not going to be the last time we're going to have this issue. I'm sure we'll see how this TikTok stuff unravels and who's going to be in the lead and who may actually potentially get access to it.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right?

[Will Hurd]

So I'm not, I'm not concerned with that. That's just another day in the capital.

[Stephen Overlea]

What would a smart Trump AI policy look like to you? Because he sort of revoked a lot of what Biden put in place. And so now there's a question of what's Trump going to do?

[Will Hurd]

Well, I think smart AI policy is making sure we're using it right in the, in the national security space. Are we adopting. And look, my background is intelligence, right? I spent nine and a half years as an undercover officer in the CIA overseas working against our most sophisticated threats. And are we using AI to translate intelligence that we have? There should be no longer any untranslated intelligence sitting on, sitting on the shelves. Are we using this to get responses back to constituents in the quickest way possible? Are we using AI to ensure, you know, why does it take nine months to get a passport renewed? You know, are we using these tools so, so that we're ready, but also are we making sure it's following the law? And so this is something that the legislative branches has to say. I wrote the first national strategy for AI for the country and part of this is we need to be saying, hey, does AI follow the law? And that's something the legislature is going to have to do. We should be not following what's happening in the eu. The EU is having an AI law that's coming in soon. But are we also adapting this into warfare? Right. Are we using these tools in order to better understand the threats to our homeland? I think that is good. How an AI policy is going to be, is going to be, you know, whether this could be successful or not.

[Stephen Overlea]

There are high expectations, I know among defense startups that the Trump administration is going to really open up Pentagon contracts and sort of be a boon for industry, especially those who are developing kind of AI defense technology. You're working now at a defense tech company, Chaos Industries, it sounds like you maybe share that optimism.

[Will Hurd]

100% we share that optimism. And one of the things that we learn, there's a lot of companies that to make sure we get the tools for the war fighters the warfighter needs now, right. We build a product that gives the war fighter five additional minutes to understand and recognize threats. Right. When you're getting shot at or bombs are being dropped on your head, five minutes is a really long time. And I think the understanding from the top all the way to the bottom that having a three year cycle of introducing new technology, it's old by the time it gets in their hands and a recognition of that and then the ability to change how the military purchases this stuff is important. And so I think this is why you're seeing excitement from investors to be into fence tech, while you're seeing a lot of engineers that are flocking to defense tech companies. And I think at the end of the day it's a better use of taxpayer dollars. Right.

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[Stephen Overlea]

You know, let me ask you about TikTok. We mentioned it a bit earlier, but I think you're in a unique position being obviously former member of Congress and a big national security guy. Trump has extended the TikTok ban 75 days, the legality of which I just want to note has been kind of called into question. And he's also directed the Justice Department not to enforce that law. You're no longer in Congress. Now, if you were, would this worry you?

[Will Hurd]

No. My sense is that there were provisions written into the law that allowed an extension of the window before a ban if there were serious conversations about reaching an agreement. That's my sense of the legislation.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right. Yeah. I think if there are serious dialogues, it allowed for at least a 90 day extension. Yeah.

[Will Hurd]

And look, there are a number of bidders that are lining up. I think Mr. Beast is the latest person that I'm about to say he wants to purchase it and that's an interesting scenario. The question's going to be, and this is me putting my former investment banker hat on, is TikTok going to include the algorithm in a sale? Right, right. Because the algorithm is the secret sauce. And will bytedance and the Chinese authorities want to have a competitor to bytedance? It seems that the Chinese government has indicated that they're not going to tell a Chinese company what to do about whether it's their cap table or whether they, whether they sell. But look, we know the Chinese government is trying to control and have a narrative influence and they're trying to achieve AI supremacy. TikTok is one of those tools that can do it. So, you know, can this sale go through? We will see. But I also think.

[Stephen Overlea]

What do you think are the odds? What do you think of the odds of that?

[Will Hurd]

It's hard. So, you know, I think its latest valuation is something north of $50 billion at least. Yeah. If I'm paying $50 billion to something, if I for damn sure better get the algorithm right. And is that like bytedance would basically be creating a competitor. Here's what was funny. I think it's wild that there was like, I don't know if it was 3 million in that one day or if it's 3 million US users of, of the, the Chinese alternative. I think it's called RedNote.

[Stephen Overlea]

Red Note.

[Will Hurd]

Yeah, so, so people that left TikTok were, this is a Chinese app in Chinese and these are non Chinese speakers that were trying to load this something as an alternative. So that algorithm is super important. And so whether that gets sorted out, I think is going to be, is going to be the issue.

[Stephen Overlea]

Is there a disconnect, you know, with that rednote example? Like, is there a disconnect between the national security conversation around China and like, the public opinion around China when it comes to tech? I mean, on the one hand, folks like yourself and others sort of warn about competition with China and the risk of China, and here you have some American citizens at least saying, we don't really care about that. You know, we just want to use this technology.

[Will Hurd]

Look, of course there's a disconnect. And I think, Stephen, the way you articulate it, I agree with you. And so part of that is it takes folks that are in the national security apparatus to articulate what the issue is, right? Do you want an adversary to have access to a tool that could influence 300 million Americans? Right. And I think most people, when they explain that, say no. And now they're going to be like, well, where am I going to get my recipes or, you know, how to do my makeup or the latest thing, Right? So, yeah, there's a disconnect, right. I think it's a broader disconnect too, about what happens in Taiwan and why should we care about Taiwan? Why should we care about semiconductor manufacturing? Right? Like, should we care about dominance on the battlefield so that we can win a hot war with the Chinese government? These are all questions that require explanation. And the many people, taxpayers, voters are, you know, that list that, that read and listen to your, your podcast are saying that doesn't impact me on a, on a daily basis. And I think bridging that disconnect will make things easier. But we have some examples of what happened when TikTok was banned in India. People just signed up to other things, right? And you didn't see a huge bunch of people, you know, rioting in the streets. And so I, I think that's something to take into account as legislators are looking at, or the executive branch is looking at this, right? Because legislation has, has, the law is the law. The law has said this has to be sold or shut down. And there's going to be 70 something more days left to figure out whether that happens or not.

[Stephen Overlea]

You know, when you were in Congress, I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, I recall you having a pretty good relationship with Silicon Valley CEOs and some of these tech guys. Has it been surprising at all to you to see tech leaders embrace Trump this time around? You know, between the Mar A Lago visits and appearances at the inauguration, it seems like we're a long way from 2017.

[Will Hurd]

Is it surprising that they embraced it? No, I think they recognize that he won in a pretty big fashion. But when you think about the policies and some of the activities that impact their livelihood, the people that he's bringing in, the positions are going to be something that are ultimately positive for those industries. This is nothing new where you have titans of business come in and look. I think there's still some political frictions between some of these new relationships, but that kind of thing is always, always going to last. But at the end of the day, it's best for American citizens if the public sector and the private sector are working together to provide better services to the taxpayer, to provide better tools to the war fighter in order to protect us and keep us safe. So that cooperation is important for all of us. You're going to see frictions and fissures, but that's okay. That's what happens in an open society.

[Stephen Overlea]

Well, Congressman, thanks for being back here on Politico Tech.

[Will Hurd]

Always a pleasure.

[Stephen Overlea]

That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you enjoy Politico Tech, please subscribe. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Our managing producer is Annie Reiss. I'm Stephen Overlee. See you back here tomorrow.