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Gina Raimondo is working weekends to protect her Commerce legacy
00:22:27
Secretary Gina Raimondo has morphed the Commerce Department over the past four years into an agency focused on national security — enacting a massive, high-tech industrial policy aimed at beating China. And with two months left in her tenure, she is now racing to cement that legacy. On POLITICO Tech, Raimondo joins host Steven Overly to talk about her plans to dole out all microchip subsidies, today’s global summit on AI safety and why she thinks her work will withstand a Republican-controlled Washington.
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Snapchat Representative
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Stephen Overlea
Hey, welcome Back to POLITICO Tech. Today's Wednesday, November 20th. I'm Stephen Overlea. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo has just two months until her tenure comes to an end and the unfinished business she wants to get Doc one is piling up. Raimondu told me she made personal calls to tech CEOs this weekend trying to speed along deals that would pay out billions of dollars to bring microchip manufacturing back to the US and today she's in San Francisco kicking off a global summit focused on developing safety rules for artificial intelligence, a power handed to her agency last year under President Joe Biden's AI Executive order. Now, Ray Commando says her hustle isn't because the Trump administration will soon be taking over, but the reality is that Republicans are already laying out plans to roll back key components of her legacy, like the Inflation Reduction act, the Chips and Science act, and that AI executive order. And on Tuesday, POLITICO reported that President elect Donald Trump has already picked her replacement, Wall Street CEO Howard Lutnick. On the show today, I sat down with Raim to talk about the work still to be done, why she thinks chips and AI still have bipartisan support and how the mission of the Commerce Department has morphed under her watch. Here's our conversation. Well, Secretary, welcome to POLITICO Tech.
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Gina Raimondo
Thank you for having me.
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Stephen Overlea
So a lot of ground to cover here. I want to start. The role of commerce secretary has really expanded under your watch. And I think tech has been a big driver of that. You know, clean tech, supply chains, microchips, AI. I want to hear from you. What's the biggest change from the job you entered to the job that you'll be leaving here in a few months?
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Gina Raimondo
Thank you for that question. We've really transformed the size, scope and role of the Commerce Department over the past four years under the president's leadership. And a lot of that is because we're much more involved in technology. You know, some people call me the sack of tech, which is accurate. You know, for example, when the G7 has a tech minister's conference, I'm the one to go. I'm the tech minister for our country. But also, look, we are very much a national security focused agency now more than ever. And that's because national security now more than ever revolves around technological security, whether that's on offense like the CHIPS act, you know, making more chips in America now. There was no CHIPS office when I started. I had to recruit the whole team, right. Or Defense, with our export controls. And we've had the most aggressive, sweeping export controls ever under my leadership, especially as it relates to semiconductors. Because that's national security. You know, I mean, that's national security isn't just tanks and missiles. It is semiconductors and AI models.
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Stephen Overlea
Well, and I want to talk about a few sort of aspects of your time at Commerce where national security really did play a big role. And we have to start with CHIPS here, I think, because you were pretty instrumental in the Chips and Science act getting through Congress. And as it stands now, I know the Commerce Department is in the process of finalizing preliminary grants with about 20 different companies trying to bring chip manufacturing back to the US as you look at the months to come, I mean, how many of those do you expect to get done before you're going to be heading out of the office?
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Gina Raimondo
If you could see me, you'd see that I'm smiling because I'm driving my team really hard right now. Worked all weekend. I'd like to have the really almost all the money obligated by the time we leave. That's the goal. I certainly want to have all the major announcements done as it relates to the big leading edge companies. And that's our goal and we're working as hard as we can to make it happen. Also there's the research and development funds and you're going to see some pretty big announcements in the coming days as it relates to investing the research and development funds of the CHIPS act, which is just as important like the chips incentivizing companies like Samsung, Intel, TSMC is about catching up. We allowed ourselves to fall behind and we need to catch up. But the research and development money is about staying ahead. Right. Always maintaining our edge, our edge over China, our edge over our adversaries. So I also would like to have all of that research and development money out the door by the time we leave as well.
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Stephen Overlea
And is the reason to get it out the door before you leave, driven by the fact that there's chatter now about Republicans perhaps walking back that law, walking back some of that money?
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Gina Raimondo
No, you know, there's a deadline. There's a clear deadline with a change of administration. So certainly a deadline focuses the mind, but this was the plan we were on all along to complete this mission. I don't worry terribly about any of the chip's money being rolled back, as you say. I mean, The Commerce Department is somewhat unique insofar as everything we've done and are doing is bipartisan. You know, the CHIPS act is a national security program and is still has great bipartisan support to this day. In fact, it was, you know, started in some ways in the Trump administration. Secretary Wilbur Ross and Pompeo sent a letter to TSMC to ask them to come here. The broadband is bipartisan. Our workforce work is bipartisan. So look, anything's possible. But I don't worry too much about that.
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Stephen Overlea
Are you having conversations about that now with Republicans? I know you were. You worked across the aisle to get this stuff passed. I wonder if those conversations are still ongoing.
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Gina Raimondo
Yes, very much so. I try to talk to Chairman McCaul and Senator Corn in quite regularly. In fact, I may have spoken to him a week or so ago. Keep Senator Wicker in the loop on broadband, I would say very, very definitely, yes.
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Stephen Overlea
The other area where we've really seen your agency take on a big new role is artificial intelligence. President Biden's executive order gave a lot of power to Commerce to sort of set rules and guidelines around AI safety. I know that today you're hosting the first meeting of the International Network of AI Safety Institutes in San Francisco. What needs to come out of that for that to be a win?
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Gina Raimondo
So I don't think you can overestimate how significant this is. First of all, AI is the defining technology of our generation. It is a huge game changer. And this convening that I'm having this week in San Francisco is the first of its kind in the US it's the third global meeting in the past year, but it's the first one with the US Is hosting and leading. And we are going to be establishing a US Government task force on testing of AI models to manage national security capabilities. We're going to be announcing new goals for the AI safety network, but most mostly what I want to accomplish is getting the world's leading scientists and technical experts together from countries all over the world on behalf of their government to sit in rooms for a couple of days to dig into the science of evaluation and the technical aspects of what do we have to do to keep the world safe from the potential dangers of AI. So I hope to come out of this where this isn't unlike other technologies, you know, nuclear technology or other technologies. There have been moments in the world's history where new technology comes forward that is so powerful.
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Stephen Overlea
Right.
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Gina Raimondo
That we have to get the world together to agree on guardrails and restrictions and standards so that everybody is kept safe. And by the way, in this regard, our interests are aligned even with some of our fiercest competitors, like China. You know, China is sending some of their scientists to this event. It is in no one's interest anywhere on the planet for AI to develop in a way that is unsafe and that is harmful. And so that's why this is such a seminal event. I should also say the United States is the. Is the clear, unequivocal leader in AI.
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Stephen Overlea
Right, Right.
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Gina Raimondo
Like, we have the most sophisticated AI chips and chip designs, the biggest, most sophisticated, most powerful AI models. All the hyperscalers are US Companies. That means we have, I think, a special obligation to lead the world in the development of safe AI. And that's what this convening is about.
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Stephen Overlea
Well, in that vein, I mean, with the US Being a leader here, I do think there are some questions now from US Allies who are unsure what the change in administration will mean for the US Policy on AI safety. As I'm sure you know, the incoming administration has vowed to reverse the AI executive order that set up the USAI Safety Institute and these other programs. I guess in light of that, what can you say? Kind of heading into this global meeting to kind of calm those nerves?
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Gina Raimondo
Yeah. So, look, I can't predict what the next president will do. And so I'm not going to speculate on who might do what. Here's what I will say. In less than a year, under President Biden's leadership, we have made a remarkable amount of progress in a bipartisan way, I should note, to start to define what are the standards to keep us safe? What is a safe model? What is the science of evaluation? And by the way, we're doing this in partnership with the private sector. You know, when I'm here in San Francisco, I will be meeting with entrepreneurs, startup CEOs, venture capital investors, also some of the big hyperscalers. So this isn't really about us doing something to industry to slow them down. Right? That's not what this is about. Like I said, we lead the world. We need to run as fast as we can to continue to innovate, to lead the world. What this is about is fundamentally setting up the guardrails and standards to keep us all safe, to prevent in fact, pernicious AI models to getting in the hand of terrorists or non state actors who could use it to proliferate chemical warfare. Nobody wants that to happen. The next administration doesn't want that to happen. No country in the world wants that to happen. So are they going to put their stamp on the way to do this? I am sure. I have no doubt every president does that. But fundamentally, what we're talking about is science and global safety and American leadership. And by the way, maintaining American leadership because guardrails and standards breed trust. Trust breeds adoption. Adoption breeds more innovation than speed. So I don't know what President Trump will do, but I do know that what we're doing is something that is good for America and the world.
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Stephen Overlea
It sounds like whether it's AI or chips or some of these other programs, you feel confident or it sounds like you feel confident that there will be continuity despite a change in administration. Is that fair to say?
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Gina Raimondo
I do. Look, so much of what we do here is hardcore national security. Again, that's different. You know, for a long time, lots of commerce secretaries would do trade missions or export promotion, by the way, extremely important. We have transformed the Commerce Department to be more focused on technology, critical technology and national security. And that is bipartisan. I'll give you a concrete example. Last week, at the invitation of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, CQ Brown, I went at his invitation to speak to his, I think it was a retreat, an annual meeting of the top brass. So it was, you know, all the four stars, it was the most senior members of the military. And I spoke to them about our shared work, right? I spoke to them about technology, semiconductors, critical minerals, AI and how all of that is national security. And I said to them, which I say to the world, which I'll say to the incoming administration, we can't afford not to link commerce, our commercial strength and our technological strength with our national security.
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Stephen Overlea
Right?
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Gina Raimondo
So I do think, you know, I know I do have good reason to believe that since we work now so closely with the US Military, so closely with the commanders. You know, I've been to the Philippines and the Indo Pacific with the Indo PACOM commander. I've been to Latin America with the SOCOM commander. I mean, this is core national security, which ought to be bipartisan.
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Stephen Overlea
Well, I know a lot of your work, you know, China has been kind of a big focus. You've made sort of stabilizing that relationship a priority during your Tenure, while also implementing, as you said, you know, new export controls on things like CHIPS and other sensitive technologies. I wonder how different, if at all, that relationship feels to you now. And what's the most significant kind of unfinished business when it comes to China that you want to get done in the next two months?
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Gina Raimondo
Oh, my gosh. You know, finishing the CHIPS awards, right? It's a huge piece of business. There's a few finishing the new rules around Chinese connected vehicles being sold in the U.S. you know, these are pieces of business that we've started. We're close to being finished and can finish, which will protect the American people. That being said, our competition with China requires day by day, vigilance. I actually think, you know, when you said to me, why is the Commerce Department different now? A lot of it is because the threat is different. You know, the world's changed, national security's changed because technology now is such a core part of national security. You know, so many drones and undersea vehicles are not operated by a human being.
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Stephen Overlea
Right.
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Gina Raimondo
It's all technology. So the playing field has changed. Technology is more important. So we've had to change. I'd say the same thing about China. Like, if we rest on our laurels or get it all arrogant, we won't win. They wake up every day quite vigilant, and we do, too. So when you say unfinished business with China, we're never going to be finished. But I do have a couple things I want to tell you Beau on before I leave.
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Stephen Overlea
Hearing you talk a lot about the national security mission of Commerce and these programs you've done, I wonder if making the economic case has been a harder sell than the national security case. I'm thinking, particularly when it comes to chips, Inflation Reduction act, for example. Those were key planks of this administration's economic agenda. And right now there are a lot of kind of criticisms about whether that economic message from this administration and Democrats in general has kind of been clear and effective. Did that have trouble breaking through? You think so?
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Gina Raimondo
I do want to say CHIPS is different from the Inflation Reduction Act. The Inflation Reduction act did not have bipartisan support. Right now, I give President Biden a huge amount of credit for leading, accomplishing, and executing the biggest, most consequential climate related piece of legislation ever. But it's really different than chips. CHIPS was bipartisan, big votes in both the House and the Senate, bipartisan votes, and it is a national security initiative. When I think about, how do I define the success of chips, it's making 20% of the world's leading edge chips in the United States of America, which is a national security goal. It's making sure we're less dependent on Taiwan and China.
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Stephen Overlea
Right.
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Gina Raimondo
Which is a national security goal. It's making sure that at the end of it, we're the only country in the world that leads in research and development, design, manufacturing and leading edge packaging. So now, by the way, by the way, when we do all those things, I think we're going to create about a million jobs. I think we're going to create hundreds of thousands of high paying manufacturing jobs. I think we're going to light up whole parts of the country with economic activity, which is incredible. But fundamentally, it's a national security bipartisan initiative.
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Stephen Overlea
I've obviously covered you and your time at Commerce for the last four years, and one thing I'll say I've heard consistently over that time is that business leaders have often found it easier to engage with the Commerce Department sometimes than other parts of the administration. It's just business, for whatever reason, has found it to be kind of a receptive place. What I hear a lot now is that Democrats have an Elon Musk problem, which I think is both specific to Elon Musk and maybe broader than him when it comes to business leaders. But I wonder how you think the party should engage with him going forward.
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Gina Raimondo
So I want to say two things. First, everyone has their own leadership style. I sweat the details. Like I quite freely give out my cell phone. Two CEOs, two members of Congress, two labor leaders. And so, you know, I spent my weekend talking to CEOs of chips companies, trying to get these deals closed. So I sweat the details. And I think maybe that's why people say I am accessible. I really care about the work and I'm not afraid to dig into it. As far as Elon Musk goes, I mean, he's a fantastic entrepreneur, one of the best engineers we have. So, you know, to the extent that he's willing to follow the rules and regulations, I'm glad that he's an American innovator.
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Stephen Overlea
What's next for you? You know, that's the obligatory question as the administration comes to a close, right? You know, I've seen headlines. Maybe you'll run for governor again of Rhode Island. What do you want to do after January 20th?
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Gina Raimondo
I don't know. That is a truly honest answer, however unfulfilling it is. My husband and I were talking the other day. We don't really know where we're going to be living a year from now or what we're going to be doing. Our son graduates high school in June, so we're staying put in D.C. until June. That much I know. And I'm definitely going to take a minute to quiet my mind and think about what comes next. I'm also really focused on my team. I have some unbelievable superstars working for me, all of whom are going to have to go find something else to do. So I'm way more focused on them right now than myself.
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Stephen Overlea
Well, Secretary, I really thank you for making time here for Politico Tech.
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Gina Raimondo
Yeah, it was my pleasure. Have a happy Thanksgiving.
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Stephen Overlea
That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you enjoy Politico Tech, be sure to subscribe. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Our managing producer is Annie Reese. Our producer is Afraid Abdullah. I'm Stephen Overlea. See you back here tomorrow.