POLITICO Tech Podcast

Episode Summary: How AI is Driving Trump’s Energy Agenda

Date: November 20, 2025
Host: Stephen Overlee
Guest: Dario Gil, Undersecretary for Science, U.S. Department of Energy

Overview

In this episode, Stephen Overlee sits down with Dario Gil at the Aspen Cyber Summit to discuss how the Trump administration’s energy agenda is being shaped by the rapidly increasing demands of artificial intelligence (AI) and other advanced technologies. The conversation explores how U.S. energy policy is adapting to power-hungry tech like AI and quantum computing, the resurgence of nuclear power (especially fusion), competition with China, the essential balance between innovation speed and safety/security, and the changing role of government in research and development.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Energy Demands of AI and Advanced Computing [01:34–05:28]

• Electricity Demand is Soaring:

  • Dario Gil describes how, after decades of stagnant or declining electricity demand, the surge in AI and computing is forcing a radical rethink:

    “For many decades we had seen electricity demand either flat or slightly declining … Now we're seeing computing environments and data centers that are in the gigawatts … So in the near term it is about … enabling that with the technology that we have right now.” (Dario Gil, 02:16)

• The Key Bottleneck:

  • “The rate limiting step on the progress on AI is energy at this point.” (Dario Gil, 02:56)

2. Strategic Energy Investments for the Future [04:21–08:12]

• Short Term vs. Long Term Horizons:

  • Short term: Making better use of current grid and technology.
  • Medium to long term: Investing in next-gen nuclear and especially fusion energy.

    “From an energy perspective, fusion is an area that we're putting a lot of energy into.” (Dario Gil, 04:57)

• Fusion: From Hype to Reality

  • Gil describes growing confidence in fusion, moving beyond perpetual hype:

    “We have multiple teams in the United States in pursuit of q greater than 1 … For the first time now, we're building towards having a fusion pilot power plant … We're looking at horizons now where the rubber is going to meet the road.” (Dario Gil, 06:14 and 06:51)

  • He sees fusion plants as potentially coming online as soon as 2033–2035.

    “We are going to witness this. This is not something that we're going to talk about generations from now. So I am bullish in that sense, but realistic of how difficult it is technically.” (Dario Gil, 07:43)

3. Role of Renewables and Energy Density [08:12–09:55]

• Balancing Renewables with Reliability:
  • Renewables like solar and wind “have a role and a place,” but high-density, reliable sources (nuclear and potentially fusion) are favored for meeting massive, consistent data center demand.

    “When we're talking about these kind of computing centers and so on, one of the things that is very prized is density ... the ability to do, I mean, go back to nuclear ... It is because of the density that it can provide and the reliability.” (Dario Gil, 08:48)

4. U.S.–China Competition in AI, Quantum, and Energy [09:55–12:58]

• Stakes of the Global Tech Race:
  • Gil frames the U.S.–China competition as existential for innovation and security:

    “It is an absolute imperative that the United States remains in the lead and actually accelerate our competitiveness on AI and quantum and high performance computing technologies.” (Dario Gil, 10:19)

  • The U.S. must double the impact of its R&D within a decade, or risk falling behind:

    “If we do not succeed ... and China does that ... we're going to be very sorry for ourselves. We're not going to let that happen.” (Dario Gil, 11:07)

  • China is clear about not wanting less energy; the U.S. must adopt an “energy addition” mindset to stay competitive.

5. Balancing Speed and Safety in AI and Emerging Tech [13:31–16:12]

• Safety vs. Racing Ahead:

  • Overlee raises concerns about cybersecurity, privacy, and broader risks as the U.S. accelerates development.

• Building Security From the Start:

  • Gil emphasizes the importance of “baked-in” security:

    “We spend a lot of time dealing with this ... there has to be a very focused effort on equipping our teams ... The rate at which AI-driven cybersecurity attacks ... can only be countered through technology itself.” (Dario Gil, 13:58–14:35) “Every single initiative that we launch from day one, the research, security and the protection ... is baked in the design of everything that we do.” (Dario Gil, 16:31)

• Institutional Diversity is a Strength:

  “Thankfully, in the United States we have a lot of institutional diversity, a lot of people that care, different stakeholders around that. But it's not appropriate to say, ‘until I get up to speed ... I want everybody to stop making progress.’” (Dario Gil, 15:38)

6. The Role of Government in Tech Innovation [18:01–23:01]

• Shifting Landscape:

  • Federal government remains indispensable — but now, 70% of R&D funding comes from the private sector:

    “The federal government provides an indispensable and irreplaceable foundation ... But ... today, 70% of funding comes from the private sector.” (Dario Gil, 18:37–19:59)

• Outcomes Over Inputs:

  • Gil argues against judging progress by inputs (money spent, centers built), and insists on measuring by actual breakthroughs and capabilities delivered:

    “An outcome is delivering the capability that the nation needs to make sure that we are successful in our economic and national security fronts ... If five years from now we doubled the number of centers ... but we didn't deliver the good, I don't think anybody is going to sit around here and say, ‘You guys did a great job.’” (Dario Gil, 21:36)

• Coordinated Effort is Key:

  • Success depends on the government, states, universities, philanthropy, and the private sector working toward clear, shared tech outcomes.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fusion’s Promise:

  “If that happens, I mean, we should underestimate how amazing that is, right? The fact that we are able to … use a basic mechanism that powers the stars and be able to build a technology here on Earth to do that, I think is one of the pinnacles of scientific and technological achievement.”
  — Dario Gil [07:29]

• On AI’s Energy Bottleneck:

  “The rate limiting step on the progress on AI is energy at this point.”
  — Dario Gil [02:56]

• On U.S.–China Competition:

  “If we do not succeed … and China does that because they've adopted and changed the methodology with which science and technology and R&D is conducted, we're going to be very sorry for ourselves. We're not going to let that happen and we have to do that.”
  — Dario Gil [11:07]

• On Balancing Progress and Security:

  “I don't think we can afford to say, well, let's all sit down and wait until we figure everything out. ... I want everybody to stop making progress. So it's that balance around demanding every institution to race to the challenge and do their job.”
  — Dario Gil [15:38]

Important Timestamps

• [01:34] — Introduction of Dario Gil, key energy questions ahead
• [02:16] — Energy bottleneck for AI and the grid
• [04:29] — DOE fusion roadmap & federal-venture capital cooperation
• [05:49] — Fusion optimism vs. hype
• [08:48] — Role of renewables vs. nuclear for data center demands
• [10:19] — U.S.–China competition in technology and energy
• [13:58] — Safety/security in rapid AI advancement
• [16:31] — Building security into R&D from day one
• [18:37] — The federal R&D role today vs. post-WWII
• [21:36] — “Outcomes over inputs” principle for next-era innovation

Takeaways

• AI’s rapid rise is stressing America’s energy system, making power sources—especially dense ones like nuclear (and soon, fusion)—a strategic priority.
• Fusion is approaching practical demonstration within the next decade, shifting from “forever future” to near-term prospect.
• U.S. competitiveness vs. China in AI and quantum hinges not just on tech talent and chips, but on “energy addition,” or expanding the available power to fuel innovation.
• Security and safety considerations are crucial and must be integrated from the beginning in advanced R&D, not dealt with as an afterthought.
• The government’s role in innovation is changing: federal leadership is still key, but it must orchestrate efforts alongside state, university, philanthropic, and powerful private-sector actors—with a focus on delivering clear, mission-critical outcomes for the nation.