Is Elon Musk’s AI hoovering up DOGE data?

Summary

POLITICO Tech Podcast Summary

Title: Is Elon Musk’s AI Hoovering Up DOGE Data?
Host: POLITICO
Release Date: February 21, 2025
Episode Title: Is Elon Musk’s AI Hoovering Up DOGE Data?

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Introduction

In this episode of POLITICO Tech, host Stephen Overlea delves into the controversial collaboration between Elon Musk’s ventures and government agencies, particularly focusing on the potential misuse of sensitive government data by Musk’s AI company, Xai. The discussion highlights the legal, political, and technological implications of this alliance, raising critical questions about data privacy, AI development, and governmental oversight.

Elon Musk’s Influence on Government Data Access

Stephen Overlea opens the conversation by addressing the increasing headlines about Elon Musk’s influence on government reform and data access. Musk’s companies—X, Tesla, and SpaceX—are reportedly gaining unprecedented access to federal data through entities like Doge, a government reform agency.

Stephen Overlea [00:32]: “Every day, it seems, we get a new headline about Elon Musk's army of government reformers kicking down the door to some agency and making sweeping changes.”

Adam Ren, POLITICO’s correspondent, explains the gravity of the situation:

Adam Ren [02:20]: “Elon Musk is behind his competitors with his AI platform Group 3, which just released earlier this week. To train it, one would think that it would be a huge leg up to have access to the largest pool of data concerning more than 300 million Americans.”

Concerns Over Data Handling and Privacy

The core of the episode revolves around the apprehensions regarding Doge’s handling of sensitive government data and its potential funneling into Musk’s AI projects. Legal experts have raised alarms about possible violations of privacy laws.

Stephen Overlea [00:32]: “A lot of that data is sensitive and as we've heard from legal experts on the podcast, Protected by Privacy Law that has raised questions and legal complaints about whether Doge is mishandling all of this data.”

Adam Ren points out the lack of transparency and potential conflicts of interest:

Adam Ren [03:15]: “The White House says he does not have direct access here. But Elon now essentially has that, or is at least close to having that.”

Political Reactions: Democrats and Republicans

The episode explores the bipartisan concerns regarding Musk’s data practices. While Democrats, including Congressman Ro Khanna, have been vocal critics, there is also significant unease among Republicans.

Adam Ren [04:33]: “Rodham’s Congressman Ro Khanna... he said there should be strict guardrails and transparency on the use of any federal data for AI, and that is not there yet.”

Despite traditional partisan divides, both sides agree on the necessity for stringent data governance:

Adam Ren [05:35]: “This isn't just, you know, people who are anti Trump, like Ro Khanna raising the alarm here. Republicans are as well.”

Notably, pro-Trump strategist Ryan Jerdusky emphasizes the need for regulations:

Ryan Jerdusky [05:35]: “He wants Republicans to find guardrails for any private entity, whether it's Elon or George Soros, that gets ahold of federal data.”

Insights from Musk’s AI Model: Grok

A particularly intriguing segment involves Adam Ren’s experiment with Musk’s AI model, Grok. Initially, Grok 2 denied any use of federal data:

Adam Ren [08:14]: “Grok 2... its answer was kind of a simple no, noting equivocally, unequivocally, that it had not been trained on any data from the federal government.”

However, the newer Grok 3 version presents a more ambiguous stance:

Adam Ren [08:14]: “Grok3... told us that it's plausible the data Doge access could have flowed to Xai projects like Grok3. Best guess is that Grok3 probably wasn't primarily trained on Doge obtained federal data, but it did say the timeline of how Group came out and how Doge unfolded added up to that being a possibility.”

Stephen Overlea [09:22]: “So even the machine is a bit skeptical, it sounds like.”

This exchange underscores the potential for AI systems to inadvertently absorb and utilize sensitive data, whether intentionally or not.

Legal and Public Response

The episode touches on the legal challenges Doge faces, including lawsuits alleging mishandling of federal data. Alan Butler from the Electronic Privacy Information Center labels Doge as a “privacy nightmare,” amplifying public and legal scrutiny.

Alan Butler: “Doge is a privacy nightmare.”

Adam Ren highlights the ongoing battle between Doge’s assertions and public distrust:

Adam Ren [09:53]: “The White House lays down a pretty unequivocal statement that, that Elon is not using federal data in any of his private companies. Caroline Levitt told us... that it was unequivocally false.”

Future Outlook and Implications

Looking ahead, Adam Ren forecasts significant developments surrounding Doge and Musk’s ventures. The potential for data misuse could lead to stricter regulations and possibly impact Musk’s popularity and political alliances.

Adam Ren [10:59]: “Elon Musk's popularity and approval is taking a bit of a hit, more of a hit than Donald Trump has so far. So in some ways, he's a fire shield to Donald Trump.”

Ren also emphasizes the broader impact of this tech-government nexus on federal employment and national policies:

Adam Ren [11:27]: “This has tentacles that reach into the homes of listeners and American citizens in very concrete ways. Social Security is being looked at here. Elon has said that he wants to install AI throughout the government to make it more efficient.”

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the intersection of technology, politics, and governance. Elon Musk’s involvement with government data through Doge and Xai represents a pivotal moment in how technology can influence and reshape governmental operations. The lack of existing guardrails and bipartisan concerns signal an urgent need for comprehensive policies to navigate the complexities of AI and data privacy in the public sector.

As the story unfolds, POLITICO Tech commits to monitoring the developments around Doge, Musk’s AI initiatives, and the ensuing political ramifications, ensuring listeners stay informed about this critical intersection of technology and policy.

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Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Overlea [00:32]: “A lot of that data is sensitive and as we've heard from legal experts on the podcast, Protected by Privacy Law that has raised questions and legal complaints about whether Doge is mishandling all of this data.”

• Adam Ren [02:20]: “To train it, one would think that it would be a huge leg up to have access to the largest pool of data concerning more than 300 million Americans.”

• Adam Ren [04:33]: “He said there should be strict guardrails and transparency on the use of any federal data for AI, and that is not there yet.”

• Adam Ren [08:14]: “Grok3 probably wasn't primarily trained on Doge obtained federal data, but it did say the timeline of how Group came out and how Doge unfolded added up to that being a possibility.”

• Adam Ren [10:59]: “Elon Musk's popularity and approval is taking a bit of a hit, more of a hit than Donald Trump has so far.”

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions from the episode, providing listeners and readers with an in-depth understanding of the intricate relationship between Elon Musk’s AI endeavors and government data practices.

Transcript

[Adam Ren]

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[Stephen Overlea]

Friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can.

[Adam Ren]

1, 2, 3.

[Stephen Overlea]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Adam Ren]

Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion that does the heavy lifting. So you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

[Stephen Overlea]

Hey, welcome back to Politico tech. Today's Friday, February 21st. I'm Stephen Overle. Every day, it seems, we get a new headline about Elon Musk's army of government reformers kicking down the door to some agency and making sweeping changes. And it often starts with getting a hold of the data, whether it's at usaid, the Treasury Department or some other three letter agency. The Department of Government Efficiency comes in, collects the data, and then starts making cuts to staffing and spending. Well, a lot of that data is sensitive and as we've heard from legal experts on the podcast, Protected by Privacy Law that has raised questions and legal complaints about whether Doge is mishandling all of this data. It's now crunching. My colleague Adam Ren is covering Musk's government overhaul for POLITICO's West Wing playbook newsletter, which just relaunched to squarely focus on the ways that the Trump administration is remaking government. Adam wanted to find out whether the data could be funneled into Musk's businesses, especially his artificial intelligence startup, Xai. On the show today, Adam tells me what he found out. Here's our conversation. Adam, welcome back to Politico Tech.

[Adam Ren]

Good to be with you.

[Stephen Overlea]

So Doge has been getting unprecedented access to government data, including some sensitive data, and you had some questions about whether that might be benefiting Elon Musk and his AI company. What's the big concern here?

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, well, essentially you have sort of this unprecedented arrangement where you have someone who's a top three of the largest private companies in the world, whether it's x, Tesla or SpaceX, who is working with federal government data. Now, the White House says he does not have direct access here. But one of the things that's interesting is that you, Elon Musk is very behind his competitors with his AI platform Group 3, which just released earlier this week. And so, you know, to, to train it, one would think that it would be a huge leg up to have access to the largest, you know, pool of data, you know, concerning more than 300 million million Americans that there is. And Elon now essentially has that, or is at least close to having that.

[Stephen Overlea]

Right. Well, and I think some of this concern is fueled in part by one, the fact that Doge has been operating with a lot of speed and a lot of secrecy, and also that Musk has this powerful role in government and has not eliminated potential business conflicts. He hasn't stepped back from any of the companies he runs, including his AI company.

[Adam Ren]

That's right. And the White House will say that in court documents or elsewhere, that he's not technically the leader of Doge, although they won't say who is. And, you know, they also say that. That it's important to trust them and that. That there's no conflict here and that Elon is informing Chief of Staff Susie Wiles about his every move as he makes it. There's some dispute about that as we talk to sources close to Trump in the White House. And so it's just basically us taking a scout's honor from Elon and the White House that he doesn't indeed have access to this data and isn't using it for his own company.

[Stephen Overlea]

Well, and I don't think a lot of folks are taking them at their word, certainly not Democrats. You know, there has been concern about how Musk may be using data. Democrats have been some of the biggest critics. And I know you talked to Congressman Ro Khanna. He's been on the podcast before. What did Khanna tell you?

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, he said there should be strict guardrails and transparency on the use of any federal data for AI, and that is not there yet. Those guardrails do not exist. And he thinks that's true for government's own use of data. And, you know, as we sort of head into this digital wild west here, Congress is going to have to catch up with the pace of technology, and it's not clear that they've done that.

[Stephen Overlea]

I think that's a good point. You know, there are broader concerns around the government's collection of data from both Democrats and some Republicans even before Doge came into existence. And so now I think the fact that you have this government agency, which, as you said, may or may not be run by Elon Musk kind of stampeding into federal agencies, vacuuming up their data, has renewed a lot of those questions. There are some conservatives, too, who are talking about this, people who generally support Trump, but are nevertheless kind of raising concerns about data privacy or data security. What's the sentiment on the right?

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, you know, we talk to people like Ryan Jerdusky, who's a pro Trump conservative strategist, he was sort of instrumental to the rise of J.D. vance as a Senate candidate in Ohio. And, you know, he's one of the people who's, who's raising the alarms here. And he wants Republicans to find guardrails for any private entity, whether it's Elon or George Soros, that gets ahold of federal data. And so this isn't just, you know, people who are anti Trump, like Ro Khanna raising the alarm here. Republicans are as well. And these guardrails will potentially exist if they're established long after Trump leaves the stage. And so it's important to both parties, at least the activists in both parties, to have those guardrails exist, and they don't. Yet.

[Stephen Overlea]

Is there any sense of whether or not that will actually spur Congress to act? You know, I've seen other reporting from our political colleagues that some Republicans who would typically, you know, prioritize data privacy or who have raised questions about data privacy in the past, they seem reluctant to criticize Doge and to criticize Elon Musk.

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, and there's a bit of tension there. I mean, this. You have a number of people in the MAGA universe who have for a long time raged against big tech, the power of big tech here, including Donald Trump, who has had his own wars at times, not only with just X or any of these other companies, but also Elon Musk himself. They haven't always been sympatico, if you look at recent history. And so there, there is sort of, you know, attention in that if Republicans are going to be against big Tech, you know, and Democrats for that matter, too, if they're going to be against big tech, then they should want these guardrails to exist as well. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big Roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be. To be.

[Stephen Overlea]

You didn't just put this question of how Musk is handling this data to humans. You also asked Musk's own AI model, Grok. The Now AI can hallucinate and it can deceive so I want to keep that in mind. But how did Grok3 respond to you when you asked it whether or not it's getting any data from Doge?

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, this was sort of brilliant idea by my colleague Holly Otterbein. And before I answer how Grok 3 answered the question, I want to start with how Grok 2 answered the question. So we went to Grok 2, which was released last August, and we asked it if it was using any federal federal data accessed by Doge, whether it had learned based on that data. And of course, its answer was kind of a simple no, noting equivocally, unequivocally, that it had not been trained on any data from the federal government, whether obtained by Doge or any other means. So when we asked Grok3, which was just released this week, the same question, it told us that it's plausible the data Doge access could have flowed to xai projects like Grok3. It's quote, best guess is that Grok3 probably wasn't primarily trained on Doge obtained federal data, but it did say the timeline of how Groep came out and how Doge unfolded added up to that being a possibility.

[Stephen Overlea]

So even the machine is a bit skeptical, it sounds like.

[Adam Ren]

That's right.

[Stephen Overlea]

You know, a few weeks ago now, we had Alan Butler on the podcast. He's the executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information center, which is this privacy advocacy group in Washington. He called Doge a privacy nightmare. And since then, you know, there have been a number of lawsuits filed over how this team is handling federal data. What are you watching for going forward?

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, you know, I'm watching for. In our story, you know, the White House lays down a pretty unequivocal statement that, that Elon is not using federal data in any of his private companies. Caroline Levitt told us, the press secretary told us that it was unequivocally false, end quote. And so, you know, they've laid down a really specific benchmark here for us to monitor, you know, going forward throughout the life of Doge and throughout the life of Elon's connection with, with the Trump administration. And so, you know, that's something for, for sure that we'll, that we'll watch here. And also, it seems like Democrats have really found a way into politicizing Doge to their benefit. If you look at public polling data, Elon Musk's popularity and approval is taking a bit of a hit, more of a hit than Donald Trump has so far. So in some ways, he's a fire shield to Donald Trump. And it'll be curious to see, you know, how quickly Republicans start to raise the alarm politically as they head into the midterms next year.

[Stephen Overlea]

You know, let me ask you one more question. You know, this piece you've written for Politico is for West Wing Playbook, a newsletter that is being rebranded to really focus on this, you know, fast moving story of how Elon Musk and Donald Trump and others in this administration are remaking government. As you kind of embark on this newsletter, I'm curious, how much of this story do you think is a tech story? How much of this is about data and AI?

[Adam Ren]

I think it's a power story. But beyond that, it's certainly a tech story. I mean, I'd go further than that and say it is the tech story right now that is transforming government, transforming the way that we live. And this has tentacles that reach into the homes of listeners and American citizens in very concrete ways. You know, Social Security is being looked at here. Elon has said that he wants to install AI throughout the government to make it more efficient. And we're seeing, you know, job cuts not just from federal workers in places like Washington, D.C. or Northern Virginia suburbs, but really all around the country in federal jobs that exist far from the Beltway. And so this tech story is really reverberating across the country.

[Stephen Overlea]

Well, Adam, thanks for being here on Politico Tech.

[Adam Ren]

Good to be with you.

[Stephen Overlea]

That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you enjoy Politico Tech, please subscribe and recommend it to a friend or colleague. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Music in our show comes from the mysterious Brakemaster Cylinder. Our managing producer is Annie Reiss, and our editors are Steve Heuser, Daniela Cheslo, and Louisa Savage. I'm Stephen Overlea. See you back here on Monday.