Rep. Ro Khanna wants Elon Musk to work with government, not against it

Summary

POLITICO Tech Episode Summary: Rep. Ro Khanna Wants Elon Musk to Work with Government, Not Against It

Release Date: November 21, 2024
Host: Stephen Overlea
Guest: Congressman Ro Khanna

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1. Introduction

In this episode of POLITICO Tech, host Stephen Overlea engages in a comprehensive discussion with Congressman Ro Khanna about the evolving relationship between technology, politics, and policy. Khanna shares his insights on the Democratic Party's strategy in Silicon Valley, the potential collaboration with tech moguls like Elon Musk, and the broader implications of technological advancements on the American economy and society.

2. Democratic Party's Strategy in Silicon Valley

Declining Support and Future Pathways

Rep. Ro Khanna opens the conversation by addressing the recent decline in Democratic support within Silicon Valley, a traditionally stronghold for the party. He emphasizes the importance of not taking Silicon Valley's allegiance for granted, citing its unique "contrarian streak" and independent mindset (02:06).

Embracing Technology for Economic Rebuilding

Khanna advocates for the Democratic Party to position itself as the "party of building" and the "party of the future." He outlines a vision where the party leverages cutting-edge technologies like AI and robotics to rejuvenate American manufacturing, create modern high-paying jobs, and revitalize both urban and small communities. This approach, he believes, is crucial for winning back voters not only in Silicon Valley but also in the heartland areas where support has wavered.

“We need to be the party of building. We need to be the party of the future... My hope is to engage Silicon Valley in building things.”
— Ro Khanna (02:06)

3. The Role of Elon Musk in Government Collaboration

Constructive Engagement vs. Dismantling Government

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Elon Musk's role in shaping government policies. Khanna expresses a nuanced perspective, hoping that Musk would embody the collaborative spirit of FDR’s "dollar a year men," working alongside the government and unions to build infrastructure rather than undermining governmental institutions.

“My hope for Elon Musk would have been that he would have been one of FDR's dollar a year men or women who would be working to build things with government, with unions...”
— Ro Khanna (01:15)

Defense Contractors and Government Efficiency

Khanna criticizes the bloated share of the defense budget allocated to prime contractors, drawing parallels to historical efforts by President Harry Truman to curb excesses. He suggests that Musk's focus on reducing bureaucracy could lead to meaningful cost-cutting in areas like defense spending, though he remains skeptical about the administration's commitment to such reforms.

“Harry Truman went after defense contractors in World War II, made him president, and the situation today is worse...”
— Ro Khanna (06:19)

4. Technology and Economic Renewal

Addressing Technological Anxiety

Khanna acknowledges the public's concerns about AI and automation potentially leading to job losses. He counters these fears by advocating for the creation of "modern factories" that integrate advanced technologies while ensuring that workers receive a fair share of the increased productivity. This includes higher wages, stock ownership, and strong union representation.

“We got to have the modern factories, the modern jobs, and make sure these jobs are available in their communities... We’ve got to democratize technology to make sure it's actually benefiting people.”
— Ro Khanna (04:44)

Combining Traditional Skills with Modern Innovation

Khanna highlights the disparity between regions experiencing economic decline and wealthy districts like Silicon Valley. He argues for a national strategy that merges traditional manufacturing skills with modern technological advancements to foster economic dynamism and reduce inequality.

“The challenge is that we haven't come together as a nation where we take the manufacturing skill, the work ethic, the traditions of these communities and combine it with modern technology...”
— Ro Khanna (03:15)

5. Future of Tech in Washington

Comparing Historical and Current Tech Dynamics

Reflecting on the evolution of tech's role in politics, Khanna compares the current landscape to the Obama era, noting that today's technology, particularly AI, has a more profound impact on society and the economy. He emphasizes the necessity of proper regulation and safeguards to ensure technology uplifts rather than divides communities.

“AI is a revolutionary technology like electricity, like the automobile... We're in this age of extraordinary technological progress, extraordinary economic growth.”
— Ro Khanna (15:10)

Expectations from the Incoming Administration

While optimistic about the potential for technological entrepreneurship, Khanna expresses doubt that the incoming administration will adequately address the fundamental issue of economic inequality. He stresses the need for policies that ensure technological advancements benefit all communities, not just the affluent.

“I am not convinced [the administration]... they're not going to address the fundamental challenge in America, which is the inequality between places and people.”
— Ro Khanna (15:10)

6. Bipartisan Engagement and Future Challenges

Honest and Constructive Dialogue with Tech Leaders

Khanna advises fellow Democrats to engage with tech leaders like Elon Musk through honest discussions, acknowledging both their contributions and areas of disagreement. He underscores the importance of intellectual honesty and factual debates to build a constructive relationship.

“Even if you dislike him on certain policies and disagreements on policy, strong disagreements... have the intellectual honesty to understand what he has done...”
— Ro Khanna (11:18)

Navigating a Potential Trump 2.0 Administration

Addressing concerns about the resilience of bipartisan efforts in the face of a Trump-like administration, Khanna emphasizes selective resistance. He advocates for opposing specific extreme actions rather than adopting a blanket stance against the administration, allowing for strategic engagement where beneficial.

“We gotta pick our battles... if he starts to have the military go to Politico and start looking at everyone... then we resist that.”
— Ro Khanna (12:22)

7. Conclusion

Rep. Ro Khanna articulates a vision where the Democratic Party harnesses technological advancements to foster economic renewal and reduce inequality. By collaborating with influential tech figures and embracing innovation, Khanna believes the party can rebuild support across diverse communities. The conversation underscores the critical intersection of technology and policy in shaping the future of American politics and society.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ro Khanna (02:06): “We need to be the party of building. We need to be the party of the future... My hope is to engage Silicon Valley in building things.”

• Ro Khanna (01:15): “My hope for Elon Musk would have been that he would have been one of FDR's dollar a year men or women who would be working to build things with government, with unions...”

• Ro Khanna (04:44): “We got to have the modern factories, the modern jobs... We’ve got to democratize technology to make sure it's actually benefiting people.”

• Ro Khanna (15:10): “AI is a revolutionary technology like electricity, like the automobile...”

• Ro Khanna (12:22): “We gotta pick our battles... if he starts to have the military go to Politico and start looking at everyone... then we resist that.”

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the conversation between Stephen Overlea and Rep. Ro Khanna, highlighting the key discussions on the Democratic Party’s strategy in Silicon Valley, the potential partnership with Elon Musk, the role of technology in economic growth, and the future trajectory of tech policy in Washington.

Transcript

[Snapchat Representative]

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[Stephen Overlea]

Hey, welcome back to Politico tech. Today's Thursday, November 21st. I'm Stephen Overlea. When I called up Congressman Ro Khanna a few months before Election Day, he had a warning for fellow Democrats about his deep blue district in Silicon Valley.

[Ro Khanna]

I think it would be a mistake to take Silicon Valley for granted because there's such a contrarian streak there and there's such an independent streak there.

[Stephen Overlea]

Silicon Valley still voted en masse for Vice President Kamala Harris, but Democratic support did decline there, just as it did in many other parts of the country. And that's left Democrats questioning the path forward. Khanna tells me that winning back voters both in Silicon Valley and in the heartland requires Democrats to embrace tech as a force for rebuilding the country and the economy. And he wishes that the party had a certain billionaire business mogul in its corner, Elon Musk.

[Ro Khanna]

My hope for Elon Musk would have been that he would have been one of FDR's dollar a year men or women who would be working to build things with government, with unions, as opposed to just putting him there to dismantle part of government.

[Stephen Overlea]

On the show today, Khanna offers his take on the Democratic Party's future and on Elon Musk's plans to cut government spending under the incoming Trump administration, which Khanna frankly has some doubts about. Here's our conversation. Hey, Congressman, welcome to Politico Tech.

[Ro Khanna]

Thanks for having me back on.

[Stephen Overlea]

When I talked to you before the election, you said that Democrats should worry about losing support in Silicon Valley, and their support did slip there a bit. Now that we're on the other side of the election, how do they win it back?

[Ro Khanna]

We need to be the party of building. We need to be the party of the future. We need to say that we're going to use AI, we're going to use robotics, we're going to use all of this incredible technology to put up new factories, modern factories, to re industrialize America, to make us the world's top producer, to revitalize downtowns and small communities, and that the Democratic Party has a vision for how government can work with business leaders to do that. My hope for Elon Musk would have been that he would have been one of FDR's dollar a year men or women who would be working to build things with government, with unions, as opposed to just putting him there to dismantle part of government. My hope is to engage Silicon Valley in building things.

[Stephen Overlea]

And so is that a message that you think applies both in Silicon Valley and in the blue wall states and in place where working class voters seem to have switched sides? You know, there are lots of theories right now, and I wonder what yours is about why those middle class voters didn't come through this election cycle. For Democrats, I believe it's the right.

[Ro Khanna]

Vision for the country. We use the tools of modern technology to solve the fundamental inequality of a modern economy. You've had a lot of people in places where I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania or nearby in Berks county who feel that their kids lives aren't going to be as secure as their parents who feel that it's hard to buy a house, how hard to get a car. They've seen manufacturing decline, they've seen towns hollowed out, They've seen kids have one way exits out of their communities. And then you had districts like mine having an explosion of wealth, $12 trillion of market value. The wealthiest district in the country, the wealthiest place probably in the world. And the challenge is that we haven't come together as a nation where we take the manufacturing skill, the work ethic, the traditions of these communities and combine it with modern technology to see economic dynamism and growth and rejuvenation. I honestly believe that is the pathway to economic renewal and to a comeback. And I think we can win on it politically. But because it's substantively correct, is that.

[Stephen Overlea]

A hard needle to thread? Because I think when a lot of people hear AI, they think of automation and they worry about job loss. And I wonder how you kind of make that pitch to folks who may be kind of adverse to or anxious about things like artificial intelligence.

[Ro Khanna]

My sense is people understand that the pace of technology, many people have a phone and many people understand their own Google searches. They understand that AI is coming. And what they want to know is are they going to benefit from it? Are their kids going to benefit from it? Can you still have good jobs in manufacturing, in retail, and in healthcare and education? And what I'd say is we got to have the modern factories, the modern jobs, and make sure these jobs are available in their communities. Promising people that they're going to have the factories of the 1960s and 70s is a false promise. We got to stop lying to people and we got to be saying, look, the modern steel plant may have 1,000 people, it may not be 4,000 people, 5,000 people, but you're going to have new steel plants of high paying jobs, new aluminum plants, high paying jobs. Isn't that a great thing in a place where it was in the past, offshore? So we also need to center workers in the conversation. What do I mean by that? If AI and technology is going to increase productivity, workers should get a bigger share of the profits. Why are workers getting a part of the stock of companies where they're producing value? How do we incentivize that? How do we get them higher wages? How do we make sure unions are bargaining right now? People don't like, are skeptical of technology because it's benefiting all the CEOs in my district and shareholders. We've got to democratize technology to make sure it's actually benefiting people in these communities.

[Stephen Overlea]

And I'm curious, as a Silicon Valley guy yourself, someone who I'm sure has had interactions with Elon Musk, what do you make of the kind of outsized role he's playing right now in shaping the way this new administration is coming together?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, I really wish we had used Elon to build new factories. And then of course I would have persuaded him or tried to persuade him that they had to be unionized because we helped build Tesla with Obama loans. Obama really worked with Elon to get Tesla off the ground with the Treasury Department. And Ash Carter in the Obama administration worked with elon to get SpaceX off the ground with the Department of Defense. And I would like to see with the allies how do we build new industry, new factories, the factories of the future across this country, but make sure that they have labor neutrality. Instead he's gotten this role of going after bureaucracy. And so we tweeted back and forth, actually, I said, okay, Elon, one place we can maybe find common ground is on the five prime contractors. They have such a bloated share of the defense budget, which is almost a trillion dollars, they're fleecing the American people. Harry Truman went after defense contractors in World War II, made him president, and the situation today is worse and we're not getting the value we should out of the dod. So if he wants to go after the legacy industries and how they're ripping off contractors and figure out how we have a more efficient Defense Department and a more modern military, that would be a great service.

[Stephen Overlea]

You know, you mentioned the X comments you made. Have you had any kind of response or any direct engagement with him on what this new effort will look like?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, he responded, he said he agreed that the DoD didn't have value, but he's, he's Tweeted back and forth with me a number of times over the last year, even in the heat of the campaign. And I, I've had a relationship with him for many years in terms of just knowing him. And I've always tried to make the case that Tesla should unionize. But in other places, you know, we share a common belief on free speech. We've shared a view that you should go on different platforms and engage. I did a Twitter space with him and Mike Gallagher for almost an hour. And, you know, obviously he's a brilliant entrepreneur and scientist, but the question is, how do we use that talent in, in a way that serves the public good? And what I, what I think would be tragic is if we're dismantling the Department of Education that's providing funding for kids who are disabled and kids who are autistic and young people like I was, who need student loans to go to college, I mean, you know, that's not the use, I think, of business and technology leaders. Let's have them help build things in America. Help innovate.

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[Stephen Overlea]

I've wanted to talk to a member of Congress about this new Department of Government efficiency, because obviously funding the government is the function of Congress. And here's now this sort of outside quasi governmental commission, sort of taking on this role of cost cutting. What do you make of that, just as sort of a member of Congress? And does that set up a tension there between this new entity and you and your colleagues?

[Ro Khanna]

I think Elon may get frustrated fairly quickly. I mean, let's see if he could get defense cuts. My guess is that there are going to be A lot of the people on that committee are going to want even more defense spending. It'll be a test. I mean, can he actually, I know he may recommend some, but can he get that through? Will the president actually back that? Will Congress actually push for that? There are a lot of commissions that have recommended a lot of things for a less wasteful government, but they tend to be just that, commissions. And I think the real question here will be how effective will he be going after true race and true abuse like you have in terms of defense contractors? And how much will Congress actually adopt the recommendations. And how much will he try to gut the social safety net, in which case he'll have vocal opposition, obviously from Democrats, but also from some Republicans.

[Stephen Overlea]

Does this have to come through Congress, in your view? Kind of any recommendations he puts forth that it does seem like there's been comments that the administration will have the authority it needs to make these cuts, even without support from the Hill.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, there's Article 1 of the Constitution, right. It's Congress that spends money and that raises money, and that's just the way the Congress passes the budget. So I guess he could handicap the distribution of it if he fires people in departments. But ultimately you're appropriated money by Congress. And if that Congress is still appropriating money from the treasuries, it doesn't matter what the recommendations are. It doesn't matter if you're firing people in agencies. It's still being appropriated and part of our debt.

[Stephen Overlea]

You mentioned how you've known Elon for a while, and I'm curious what you would say to other Democrats right now who are trying to figure out how to kind of work with this guy who campaigned against the party quite heavily in this last election, now seems to have an outsized role in this new administration. What would you kind of say to them?

[Ro Khanna]

First, I'd say be honest with them where you agree, where you disagree. I mean, some of the charade where, like Elon Musk really did launch the electric vehicle revolution. And then we have people praising Mary Barra. Mary Barra was a laggard. She had no leadership on electric vehicles. And so it was just insulting people's intelligence. So I would say even if you dislike him on certain policies and disagreements on policy, strong disagreements, as I do on labor issues, on trans rights issues, have the intellectual honesty to understand what he has done when it comes to electric vehicles, when it comes to Starlink, when it comes to space, and acknowledge that. And then start with where you have disagreements and make factual cases of why and push back and engage in a recent debate with them. Don't shy away from it.

[Stephen Overlea]

That's a very bipartisan sort of sounding answer, which I get. And I guess maybe I question how that holds up. You know, if we're, we're heading into a Trump 2.0 administration just thinking about how things played out the last time around, I wonder if that notion of bipartisanship can hold up.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, Trump's I build into law that I have written. I mean, there are areas where, if we put the country first, we need to work on Issues that help the country. But there are areas of strong opposition. But what we can't do is just blanket announce resistance. That's what Senator Butler said of California. We gotta pick our battles. Now, if Trump starts to have the military go to Politico and start looking at everyone who's serving you food and looking at your security guards and asking for their papers, then we resist that. Then you say that's a violation of constitutional rights. Right. If he has the military engaged in mass raids of employers. But let's wait to see what he's going to do. Let's wish and hope and tell him that we want him to do things that are going to help the country. And if he does things that are extreme, then fight those as opposed to prematurely just saying blanket. We're going to do everything to resist everything.

[Stephen Overlea]

Got it? Got it. One more Elon Musk question for you, because I just can't resist. And that's, you know, he used to support Democrats. He had a track record of supporting Democrats and obviously in this last cycle went fully in on Trump. Do you think the Democratic Party needs to win him back? And if so, how do you even go about doing that?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, we don't have to win any individual back. And I am for. I love what happened in Maine where we limited the contributions to super PACs. It's absurd. And I don't blame just Elon. There are a lot of multibillionaires on our side who are pouring in money, 700 million or so, I think on our side. This is absurd, absurd amount of spending. We should regulate contributions to super PACs, likely regulate contributions to campaigns. Maine pass that as a ballot initiative, 75 to 25. I hope the Supreme Court will uphold it. And this way, we have diminished the value of any single billionaire. I would just say. And then you just have one voter. I mean, Elon Musk is an important figure, but I don't think that any one voter is absolutely critical. But what I would say is, overall, the party needs to embrace innovation, embrace entrepreneurship, embrace building, embrace the future, so that the future, Elon Musk's and the future innovators and builders are for the Democratic Party.

[Stephen Overlea]

Well, let me ask you one more question, Congressman. I appreciate your time. You know, when I think about tech's story in Washington, I kind of think about these different chapters. Right. You know, I think about the Obama years were in some way kind of a warm and fuzzy time for tech in Washington. And under the first Trump administration and under Biden, it's been much more critical of tech and its power and its influence. I wonder what you think of as sort of the next chapter for tech in Washington with this incoming administration.

[Ro Khanna]

Well, first of all, technology today in Silicon Valley is having a more profound impact in changing society and the economy than even during the Obama years. I mean, the AI is a revolutionary technology like electricity, like the automobile. In some ways it feels like being in the pre adoption of electricity or automobiles in the 1990s or like the railroad. And we're in this age of extraordinary technological progress, extraordinary economic growth. We're producing more wealth than ever before. So of course we need to make sure it's regulated properly. We need safeguards for our kids, we need safeguards for privacy, we need safeguards for antitrust. But the more fundamental issue that we need is to prepare people for success and security in a modern economy. We have got to make sure that it's directed and used in uplifting their lives. In terms of this administration, I am not convinced. I think they'll champion the entrepreneurship and technology, but I'm not convinced that they're going to address the fundamental challenge in America, which is the inequality between places and people. We've gone from 53rd in inequality in the world to 128th. And unless you channel technology in a way that benefits places and people left out, that divide is going to continue to grow.

[Stephen Overlea]

Well, Congressman, thanks for being here on Politico Tech.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you.

[Stephen Overlea]

That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you like Politico Tech, be sure to subscribe. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Our managing producer is Annie Reese. Our producer is Afraid Abdullah. I'm Stephen Overlea. See you back here tomorrow.