The new tech power players in Trump’s Washington

Summary

POLITICO Tech Podcast Summary
Episode Title: The New Tech Power Players in Trump’s Washington
Release Date: November 18, 2024
Host: Stephen Overleaf
Guest: Jon Hendl, POLITICO Reporter

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Introduction: Shifting Power Dynamics in Washington

In this episode of POLITICO Tech, host Stephen Overleaf discusses the impending transition to the Trump administration and its significant implications for technology policy. With two months remaining until the new administration takes office, the roster of cabinet and agency appointments is rapidly taking shape. Notably, Republican Brendan Carr has been nominated to lead the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and Senator John Thune has been elevated to Senate Majority Leader. These developments signal potential shifts in policies surrounding artificial intelligence, data privacy, telecommunications, antitrust lawsuits, and tech regulations.

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Brendan Carr's Nomination: A New Direction for the FCC

Timestamp: 01:31 - 03:27

Jon Hendl provides an in-depth analysis of Brendan Carr’s nomination as FCC Chair. Carr, a long-standing FCC Commissioner, is characterized by his deep familiarity with the agency's policies and his close alignment with influential figures in the Republican Party, including Elon Musk.

Carr is recognized for championing Elon Musk’s Starlink service, indicating a pro-innovation stance within the FCC. However, Hendl highlights Carr's intent to pivot the FCC towards a more aggressive regulatory role concerning big tech. Carr’s focus on dismantling what he refers to as the “censorship cartel” around social media platforms positions the FCC to potentially challenge major tech companies more directly than in previous administrations.

Notable Quote:
Carr has publicly stated his goal to “smash the censorship cartel that exists around social media” (02:10), signaling a proactive approach to regulating online platforms and possibly revisiting Section 230 protections.

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John Thune: Steering the Senate Towards Tech Policy

Timestamp: 03:41 - 06:21

As the newly minted Senate Majority Leader, Senator John Thune is expected to play a pivotal role in shaping tech policy. Hendl notes Thune’s extensive experience with the Senate Commerce Committee and his leadership on broadband issues. Thune's historical opposition to progressive regulations, such as net neutrality, suggests a preference for less governmental oversight and concerns over excessive regulation.

Thune’s collaboration with Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar on AI legislation, which aims to balance innovation with transparency and safety, exemplifies his ability to engage in bipartisan efforts. However, given the narrow margins in Congress, Thune will likely face challenges in pushing forward his tech agenda without broad Republican support.

Notable Quote:
Thune has consistently opposed “heavy-handed regulations,” advocating for a more restrained government role in tech (05:05), reflecting his skepticism towards expansive governmental spending and intervention.

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Ted Cruz's Influence on the Senate Commerce Committee

Timestamp: 07:19 - 09:32

With Senator Ted Cruz assuming the chairmanship of the Senate Commerce Committee, expectations are high for a more stringent regulatory approach towards big tech. Hendl describes Cruz as a “big personality” with strong conservative views that may not always align with his Republican peers, potentially leading to a tougher stance on issues like privacy and content moderation.

Cruz’s proactive engagement with tech companies and his history of aggressive policy advocacy suggest that the Commerce Committee under his leadership will be highly active. This could result in significant legislative efforts aimed at increasing regulatory scrutiny of major technology firms.

Notable Quote:
Cruz is anticipated to maintain a “tough line” with big tech companies, reflecting his commitment to scrutinizing their practices more rigorously (08:15).

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Elon Musk: A Central Figure in Tech Policy

Timestamp: 10:38 - 12:27

Elon Musk emerges as a critical influencer in the current tech and political landscape. Hendl explains that Musk’s close association with the Trump administration and his leadership at X (formerly Twitter) provide conservatives with a powerful platform to amplify their views without relying solely on traditional social media companies.

Musk’s prominence mitigates some Republican critiques regarding the lack of conservative-controlled social media channels, thereby altering the dynamics of content moderation debates and reducing the impact of social media platform biases.

Notable Quote:
“Musk is just a total star in the Republican Party,” Hendl remarks, emphasizing Musk’s role in shaping the dialogue around tech policies and social media regulation (11:05).

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Matt Gaetz's Nomination: Potential Shifts in Antitrust Enforcement

Timestamp: 12:27 - 16:36

The episode also touches on the controversial nomination of Congressman Matt Gaetz as Attorney General. Gaetz's strong antitrust views align surprisingly with progressive agendas, raising concerns among tech lobbyists about the future direction of antitrust policy.

Hendl highlights the unexpected nature of Gaetz’s nomination and its potential to sustain or escalate existing antitrust cases against tech giants. Gaetz’s alignment with figures like Lina Khan, FTC Chair, despite Republican opposition, suggests a complex interplay between different factions within the party regarding antitrust issues.

Notable Quote:
Gaetz’s nomination "stands out entirely" from typical Republican stances, particularly in its alignment with progressive antitrust perspectives (14:35).

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Bipartisan Support and Unexpected Alliances

Timestamp: 15:31 - 16:29

An intriguing moment arises when Lina Khan, a progressive leader at the FTC, acknowledges bipartisan support for her agency’s work, including backing from Vice President-elect J.D. Vance and Matt Gaetz. This unexpected endorsement underscores a potential bridge between conservative and progressive factions on certain regulatory matters, particularly in antitrust enforcement.

Notable Quote:
Khan expressed hope that bipartisan support “will help secure essentially this work going forward,” highlighting an unforeseen coalition within Washington (15:30).

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Conclusion: Navigating a Complex Tech Policy Landscape

As Republicans gain control of the Senate, House, and the White House, the upcoming administration and Congress are poised to enact significant changes in tech policy. With influential figures like Brendan Carr, John Thune, Ted Cruz, and Matt Gaetz spearheading various aspects of tech regulation, stakeholders should prepare for a period of intense legislative activity and shifting regulatory frameworks. The interplay between established Republican priorities and emerging bipartisan alliances will shape the future landscape of technology governance in the United States.

Closing Remarks:
Host Stephen Overleaf thanks Jon Hendl for his insights and encourages listeners to subscribe to POLITICO Tech for ongoing coverage of technology’s intersection with politics and policy.

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Notable Quotes Overview:

1. Brendan Carr on Social Media Regulation:
   “I want to smash the censorship cartel that exists around social media.” (02:10)

2. John Thune on Government Regulation:
   “These are heavy handed regulations, we shouldn’t be having these.” (05:05)

3. Ted Cruz on Big Tech Scrutiny:
   “I think he's going to have a tough line when it comes to big tech companies.” (08:15)

4. Elon Musk’s Role in Republican Platforms:
   “Musk is just a total star in the Republican Party.” (11:05)

5. Matt Gaetz’s Antitrust Stance:
   “Matt Gaetz’s nomination stands out entirely from typical Republican stances.” (14:35)

6. Lina Khan on Bipartisan Support:
   “I always appreciate the bipartisan support for this work we’ve had…” (15:30)

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This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the POLITICO Tech podcast episode, providing readers with a clear understanding of the evolving tech policy landscape under the incoming Trump administration.

Transcript

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[Stephen Overleaf]

Hey, welcome Back to POLITICO Tech. Today's Monday, November 18th. I'm Stephen Overleaf. There are still two full months until the Trump administration takes over, but the roster of cabinet and agency picks is filling out fast, including the announcement Sunday night that Trump would nominate Republican Brendan Carr to lead the Federal Communications Commission. And over in the Senate, leadership is also falling into place after last week's vote to elevate Senator John Thune to majority leader. It's common knowledge in Washington that the people animate the policy. So all of these moves have big implications for tech. The next Congress will inherit unfinished business on artificial intelligence, data privacy and telecommunications. And the administration will take up a slew of antitrust lawsuits and tech regulations. On the show today, I asked POLITICO reporter Jon Hendl to help make sense of what these incoming power players will mean for tech. Here's our conversation. John, welcome back to POLITICO Tech.

[Jon Hendl]

Yeah, good to be back.

[Stephen Overleaf]

You've been following the race for FCC chair for a while now and written that Commissioner Brendan Carr has been considered the frontrunner now that he is the official pick. Tell me about him and what this means for Tech.

[Jon Hendl]

He's someone who, you know, he's been at the agency for years, deeply steeped in a lot of its policies and also very closely aligned with a lot of the different folks around President Elect Trump, including Elon Musk. That was something that we kind of followed and wrote about earlier this year, just how much Commissioner Carr has emerged as kind of a champion for Musk's Starlink service and what that means and how that should fit into the Biden administration or now Trump administration programs that exist for this. And I think that's going to raise a lot of questions for the direction of the FCC generally. And I think he's also signaling in a big way that the FCC is about to become an agency to go after big Tech. Yeah, I think that's generally not something we've seen in the past. It's a telecom agency that focuses on spectrum and broadcast licenses and like, maybe a little sleepier than some. But he has repeatedly been invoking this is a priority for him and issuing statements about this. He's been talking about, I think, as he put it in a tweet earlier this month, he wants to smash the censorship cartel that exists around social media. So I Think Senator Cruz is going to have an ally, right? He's going to have someone who's ready to use his bully pulpit for that and likely even use every regulatory tool at his disposal to try to make the FCC relevant in this space. I mean, I think a lot of people look to Brendan Carr as someone who will probably revive the FCC's attempts to regulate or reinterpret Section 230 and the online liability protections there. That's something that in his first term, President Elect Trump had tried to do in 2020 and kind of ran out of to. Commissioner Carr was a big cheerleader for that effort then, and he says he wants to resume some of those efforts going forward.

[Stephen Overleaf]

You know, the Senate has picked its next majority leader, South Dakota Senator John Thune. I want to hear from you. What does his promotion mean for how the Senate could tackle tech policy in the next Congress?

[Jon Hendl]

Yeah, no, Senator Thune is very familiar, I think, to a lot of people in the tech and telecom space. I think they probably view that as a good thing. I think anytime you have a top leader who actually knows how these issues work and thinks through some of that, I think that bodes a little bit better for some of this legislation to actually move forward. And in the case of Senator Thune, he's been one of the top members of the Senate Commerce Committee for really much of the last decade or so, and he was the chairman of that committee for about four years. He had been the ranking member for a little bit. He's stayed active too, for the last several years. He's the top Republican on kind of their telecom subcommittee dealing with broadband issues. So, you know, I think him being elevated means all of these other issues are elevated too.

[Stephen Overleaf]

You know, with his track record on these issues, I'm curious if he has particularly established views in telecom and tech that might kind of dictate policy that does get taken up in the new Congress.

[Jon Hendl]

I mean, I think he has generally been pretty opposed to some of the more progressive moves we've seen at different government agencies. I think about things like net neutrality, where he spent years kind of raging against some of the different policies, both during the Obama years and more recently the Biden years, in terms of saying these are heavy handed regulations, we shouldn't be having these. For a while. He tried to negotiate a bipartisan legislative compromise that would have maybe resolved some of his concerns there. So I think about that and I think about some of his broader concerns about kind of government spending. He voted against some of the bigger packages we saw during the Biden years, both the Chips act, the infrastructure law from 2021. These were packages that included billions and billions of dollars in a way that I think many of the tech and telecom sectors loved. I mean, this would be to expand broadband, this would be to help manufacturing in terms of chips. But he, I think, always was concerned about there being too much waste, too much risk around that, around elevating government agencies beyond where they should be.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Right.

[Jon Hendl]

And so I'm curious how that's going to affect his stance as majority leader now in terms of oversight of some of that. I mean, I think he was always ready to go to the Senate floor and raise concerns about how the Commerce Department was running one of these programs. And now he's going to be in a whole new position to move legislation that deals with some of this. I think he's also a master of the chamber in a way where he is always trying to make deals. So I think watching how he helps kind of maneuver and put together packages and considers nominations, I think that's going to be really important, too. And that's going to affect all of this in different ways as things move to the floor.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Totally. And I'll add to what you said, which is Thune has co sponsored this AI legislation with Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar that tries to walk the line of investing in innovation around AI, but also increased kind of transparency and safety. And so I'll be curious if their bill does not pass in the lame duck, which is a small possibility. It's possible it gets elevated in the next Congress now that he's majority leader. I mean, of course he'll have a lot of priorities to contend with, including many outside of tech. But it will be interesting to watch whether AI maybe gets a boost or at least doesn't fall completely to the back burner once he's promoted to majority leader. Thune, kind of stepping into this role clears the way for Texas Senator Ted Cruz to now hold the gavel on Senate Commerce Committee. I expect that means we'll see big changes there in terms of how tech is kind of handled and talked about. What are you anticipating?

[Jon Hendl]

Yeah, Senator Cruz is a big personality, to say the least. And I think that we're going to see that come up in many different ways with him now holding the gavel for this committee. I think he is always someone who is, in my experience, covering him as ranking member in the last couple years. He's exceptionally well organized in terms of how he is sending out letters to different tech companies and really staking his stances around a lot of these issues and I think is sometimes more conservative than a lot of members of the Republican Senate caucus, including Senator Thune. I would anticipate that we're going to see a tough line when it comes to big tech companies. I think we're going to see him maybe hesitant to be on the same page as some of the Democratic leaders on some of the big issues like privacy, other different big tech issues there. I think he's struggled sometimes to find consensus in the same way that some members have found because again, I think he does have just such really strong views and I think that's going to be influential for anything that gets through the Senate Commerce Committee in the next couple years. That's where my brain tends to go thinking, okay, what ultimately are the different bargains that could come together? Whether it's on Spectrum, AI, any of these other different privacy issues. Where is that? And we really don't have a great roadmap for what that looks like right now. I mean we've seen a couple different big ticket bills he's been open to. He was a co sponsor or I believe was open to the Kids Online Safety act cosa like that's a bill that he did not raise big concerns with or anything. So we've seen some of that. But I think about in the broadband realm, for instance, he has pushed pretty aggressively for the idea of bringing the FCC's Universal Service Fund entirely to the Hill appropriations process. That's not where you're seeing a lot of other members and not where you're seeing a lot of other Republicans necessarily. But now having the gavel for Senate Commerce too, I think he's going to have more influence too to try to pull other different folks to his side. Maybe these are issues that could hold the day. You know, I expect it's going to be a very active committee under cruise.

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[Stephen Overleaf]

And it's interesting because obviously Republicans are going to control, you know, the Senate, the House and the White House. And so to some degree, you know, compromise is only so necessary. But those majorities in the Senate and the House are so narrow that he will need to bring sort of every Republican along with him for what he wants to pass. One issue I think about with Cruz, too, is content moderation. You know, he's been among kind of the Republicans who have been very critical of social media platforms. He's accused them of anti conservative bias and sort of colluding with the Biden administration. Now that he's going to be chair and expected to be chair, does that talk translate into real action, you think?

[Jon Hendl]

Well, I think ultimately it's a question of how much action you really can see. Right. I think legislatively I'm skeptical of how much could really ultimately move there. I mean, I think there's such a deep divides around any of the content moderation decisions. I think what you will see are hearings and action in terms of Senator Cruz making noise and really exerting those concerns in a bigger way. And I think you're going to see that pretty broadly from the Republican trifecta and some different agency leaders too. I think these have been years of concerns around how social media platforms work, how different content moderation choices are made. But I also think you're going to see the tech industry, maybe even preemptively in many cases, trying to work around that as best as possible. And I think 2024 has been an interesting case study in that because, like, for sure, you see how the different tech CEOs have kind of changed their tune on a lot of these different issues. You know, if you look at what Mark Zuckerberg has been saying in the last few months versus what he might have been saying in past administrations, I think tech executives know what direction the country is going in and they don't want to run headlong into fights in the same way they might have a few years ago. And we also now have Elon Musk as a huge factor in this space too. That's going to take away a lot of the different kind of noise and heat that you might have seen around some of this. Because if you look back to like, you know, for instance, President Elect Trump's first term, you know, I think Twitter was really one of his main antagonists for a lot of the different tech fights in there. And I mean, that was really the motivating factor for his big executive order on social media in 2020. But, you know, at this point, Musk is just a total star in the Republican Party. I mean, he's with President Elect Trump basically every day at this point and hanging out at Mar a Lago. And I mean, those are things that I think inevitably become part of this discussion too.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Right. It certainly is a big factor, kind of negating the argument that conservatives don't have a social media platform to get their views out. And also, I know various folks have weighed in, for instance, on Section 230 liability protections. And obviously, any decisions that Congress makes there will directly affect Musk and his company, X. And so I agree with you completely that the Musk factor now does add a new dimension to kind of this longstanding complaint from Republicans about social media. I do want to jump to the House real quick because Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz resigned last week after Trump announced that he would be tapped to be the next Attorney general. Frankly, it's unclear if that nomination can actually win approval in the Senate. Some Republicans have suggested they won't back that. But I would think his views on antitrust must make tech lobbyists pretty nervous.

[Jon Hendl]

Yeah, this is a really interesting one. I don't think anyone saw Matt Gaetz coming as Attorney General nominee. No. And, you know, you're right. His antitrust views stand out entirely from where a lot of the Republican Party is. Again, I think this is not something that, you know, President elect Trump based his decision on probably. And I don't think it's, you know, as primary as a lot of the other different focuses. For Matt Gaetz, you know, it certainly wasn't in the nomination statement. But Matt Gaetz, he's what many would consider a conservative, meaning the conservatives who really do like the direction of progressive FTC chair Lina Khan, who generally think that's a good idea and have been much more critical of the tech industry generally. So, to your point, Steven, I think you're totally right. If you're a tech lobbyist, you have to be wondering about what this means for the direction of antitrust policy under a Matt Gates doj. Does that guarantee in some ways that some of the existing antitrust cases against tech companies continue? Do those embrace some of the same tenants that Lina Khan at the FTC is focused on, often in tandem with Jonathan Cantor, who's, you know, led the DOJ antitrust division under President Biden.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Right.

[Jon Hendl]

So, you know, I think that's pretty notable. And I think it's notable not only because of this nomination, but because it kind of lines up with other people around President elect Trump right now, notably including Vice President elect J.D. vance.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Yes.

[Jon Hendl]

Vance is, you know, another of these conservatives who has really talked up Lina Khan has said she's great. And this is a style that's, you know, turned off a lot of conservatives. I mean, like, if you look at, like, the U.S. chamber of Commerce and a lot of Republican lawmakers, they are very quick to lay in completely to all of the different policies of Lina Khan and what that means for business and think it's too aggressive. But clearly that's not where, you know, J.D. vance, where Matt Gaetz and some others are. And the funny thing about last week, too, you know, not only did we see this Matt Gaetz nomination, but we saw Lena Khan directly weigh in on this as well.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Yeah.

[Jon Hendl]

At last Thursday's open meeting, she had this great little moment partway through the meeting. It was maybe an hour or two in where she was just kind of reflecting on this agency under her leadership. You know, again, many consider it very progressive. She's like, well, we've always tried to precisely follow the law. And she was like, I always appreciate the bipartisan support for this work we've had, including from Vice President Elect Vance and former Congressman Matt Gaetz, who's just been picked for ag. And she's like, I'm hopeful that will help secure essentially this work going forward, that this will let it continue and still be bipartisan. And what a wild nod that was. I think no one expected that to happen. I think the politics around this and the non antitrust parts make it just kind of mind boggling to hear. But she's absolutely right. I mean, I think they've been very much on the same page on this. So that I think caught a lot of ears when she said that last Thursday.

[Stephen Overleaf]

Well, a lot to watch in the administration and in Congress. John, thanks for being here to break it down on Politico Tech.

[Jon Hendl]

Yeah, thank you.

[Stephen Overleaf]

That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you enjoy Politico Tech, be sure to subscribe. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Our managing producer is Annie Reese. Our producer is Afraid Abdullah. I'm Stephen Overlea. See you back here tomorrow.