POLITICO Tech Episode Summary: "This Biden Official Wants to Root Out Waste. She Says DOGE is Doing it All Wrong."

Release Date: February 27, 2025

In this insightful episode of the POLITICO Tech podcast, host Stephen Overleigh engages in a critical conversation with Anne Lewis, the former Director of Technology Transformation Services (TTS) under the Biden administration. The discussion centers around Lewis's concerns regarding Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and its approaches to modernizing government technology. Lewis offers a comprehensive analysis of DOGE's strategies, highlighting significant challenges and proposing alternative methods to effectively root out waste within government technology initiatives.

1. Introduction to Anne Lewis and DOGE

[00:32] Stephen Overleigh introduces Anne Lewis, emphasizing her extensive experience in the federal government, particularly her role in TTS. Lewis's tenure involved overseeing the modernization of government technology, hiring over 300 technologists from the private sector through competitive processes. This background sets the stage for her informed critique of DOGE's recent actions within the government’s tech landscape.

2. Initial Optimism Turned Dismay

[02:28] Anne Lewis begins by sharing her initial optimism about DOGE's mission to eliminate fraud and waste using technology. She expresses support for integrating private sector expertise into government roles, reflecting her own experience in fostering such collaborations within TTS.

However, her enthusiasm wanes as she observes DOGE's recent mass layoffs and the departure of 21 engineers and designers from the US Digital Service (USDS). [03:18] Lewis remarks, "Over the last couple of weeks, honestly, I've been a little confused and dismayed just to see the ways in which the DOGE engineers have been going about trying to gain access and what they've done with their access."

3. Critique of DOGE’s Approach to Modernization

Lewis criticizes DOGE for its approach to addressing government inefficiencies. She argues that instead of fostering a collaborative environment where private sector technologists work alongside government managers to identify and solve specific problems, DOGE has opted for broad and arbitrary cuts. [04:19] She states, "The cuts feel pretty arbitrary in people and contracts. This, to me, is a big risk from an organizational leadership and also technology perspective."

4. Examples of Waste in Government Technology Projects

One of the most compelling segments features Lewis detailing specific instances of governmental waste due to poor technology decisions. [06:20] She recounts a scenario where a benefits program's call center overwhelmed its system during the pandemic, leading to a misguided $400 million custom software solution instead of a cost-effective $4 million alternative. Lewis explains how USDS intervened to rectify the situation, highlighting the potential for substantial savings if similar issues are systematically addressed. [08:43] "I think if we were able to focus on those kinds of problems, we could actually save the government a trillion dollars."

5. Policymaking vs. Implementation Challenges

Lewis delves into the inherent disconnect between policymaking and implementation within the government. [11:05] She describes how policymakers often lack the technical expertise to draft feasible implementation plans, leading to ineffective policies that fail to address actual needs. Lewis emphasizes the importance of involving implementation leaders in the policymaking process to ensure that policies are both effective and executable.

6. Impact of DOGE’s Workforce Cuts on Government Technology Expertise

Addressing the human cost of DOGE's strategies, Lewis laments the loss of talented technologists who were brought into the government to drive meaningful change. [15:05] She highlights that hundreds of skilled individuals are leaving due to arbitrary cuts, resulting in a significant loss of expertise and hindering the government's ability to modernize effectively. [15:37] "Hundreds of people that I hired in from the tech industry have left or are leaving."

7. Cybersecurity Concerns with DOGE’s Access to Government Data

A critical area of concern raised by Lewis pertains to cybersecurity. She warns against DOGE's broad access to sensitive government data, emphasizing the risks associated with insufficient access management. [16:38] "Every time you open up a new access path, you open up a new vector for fraud." Lewis underscores the principle of least privilege, advocating for minimal access rights to mitigate potential security threats.

8. Recommendations and Final Thoughts

In her concluding remarks, Lewis advocates for a more transparent and collaborative approach. [18:17] She urges DOGE to clearly communicate its goals and work closely with government officials to understand the complexities of governmental operations. Lewis also stresses the necessity of aligning policy objectives with implementation capabilities, ensuring that technological initiatives are both strategic and sustainable.

[19:07] "There are more ways to earn loyalty or get alignment than just through use of force. And as far as I can tell from reading articles in the media, it seems like they're just only using use of force to get things, and at some point that button is going to stop working."

Lewis concludes by highlighting the cultural clash between tech and government, suggesting that DOGE's current tactics may undermine long-term collaboration and effectiveness.

Conclusion

Anne Lewis's critique offers a sobering perspective on DOGE's initiatives within the federal government. Her analysis underscores the importance of strategic, collaborative approaches to technology modernization and the dangers of arbitrary workforce and contractual decisions. By advocating for greater transparency, aligned policymaking, and adherence to cybersecurity best practices, Lewis provides a roadmap for how government technology efforts can be more effective and sustainable. This episode serves as a crucial examination of the intersection between technology and government policy, emphasizing the need for informed and thoughtful approaches to public sector innovation.

Notable Quotes:

• Anne Lewis [04:25]: "This is a big risk from an organizational leadership and also technology perspective."

• Anne Lewis [08:43]: "I think if we were able to focus on those kinds of problems, we could actually save the government a trillion dollars."

• Anne Lewis [15:37]: "Hundreds of people that I hired in from the tech industry have left or are leaving."

• Anne Lewis [16:38]: "Every time you open up a new access path, you open up a new vector for fraud."

• Anne Lewis [18:17]: "I would be curious as to whether or not they plan to be more transparent about their goals and their actions."

• Anne Lewis [19:07]: "There are more ways to earn loyalty or get alignment than just through use of force."

This episode provides a valuable examination of the complexities involved in integrating private sector technology expertise into government frameworks and the potential pitfalls to avoid in the pursuit of efficiency and modernization.