Podcast Summary: POLITICO Tech - "Why DOGE Led One Government Tech Official to Quit"

Introduction and Context

In the March 3, 2025 episode of POLITICO Tech, host Stephen Overlea delves into the tumultuous changes within the U.S. Digital Service (USDS) that led to the resignation of a key official. The episode, titled "Why DOGE Led One Government Tech Official to Quit," features an in-depth conversation with Ann Marshall, the former Director of Engineering and Data Science at USDS. Marshall provides firsthand insights into the internal upheaval sparked by the influence of a figure referred to as "DOGE" and the subsequent impact on USDS’s mission to enhance government services through technology.

Ann Marshall’s Background and Role at USDS

Ann Marshall joined USDS in 2023, bringing with her extensive experience from the private sector, notably her tenure at Amazon. Her role as Director of Engineering and Data Science was pivotal in driving USDS’s mission to improve federal agency services using technology. Marshall emphasized the meaningful impact USDS aims to have, contrasting it with typical private sector motivations focused on profit margins.

Reasons for Resignation

Marshall candidly discusses her decision to resign, attributing it to the disruptive decisions made under DOGE’s leadership. She states:

“I felt like the decisions that were being made and the actions that were being made by Doge made it impossible for our organization to continue on that mission and to serve that mission.”
[02:06]

Her resignation was a response to what she perceived as imprudent and indiscriminate firings within USDS, particularly affecting key multidisciplinary teams essential for effective government service delivery.

Impact of DOGE on USDS and Government Tech

Marshall details how DOGE’s approach significantly undermined USDS’s operational efficacy. Traditionally, USDS employs a multidisciplinary team comprising engineers, designers, product experts, and procurement professionals to ensure comprehensive problem-solving and effective project execution. According to Marshall:

“They fired one engineer and they fired half of design and product and procurement... We work on technical problems, but the problem is usually not the technology.”
[03:44]

This mass firings disrupted the delicate balance of skills necessary for USDS to function effectively, leading to the organization's inability to serve its mission.

Ann’s Critique of DOGE’s Approach

Marshall criticizes DOGE for lacking a nuanced understanding of government contracting and the importance of data science in government operations. She highlights a fundamental disconnect in DOGE’s strategy:

“Doge did not understand that coming in when they did their firings, they spared the data scientists... they're worth their weight in gold.”
[07:50]

Furthermore, she contrasts DOGE’s business-like, abrupt restructuring with the data-driven, collaborative culture she championed at USDS, rooted in making substantial, positive impacts on American lives.

Future Prospects and Civic Tech Startups

Anticipating the exodus of talent from USDS, Marshall expresses hope for the emergence of civic tech startups led by former government technologists. She remarks:

“I sincerely hope... we'll be able to get something pulled together.”
[14:32]

Marshall envisions these startups as new vehicles to continue serving the American public, filling the void left by the dismantling of USDS’s effective teams.

Broader Implications for Government Functioning

Marshall warns of the long-term detrimental effects of DOGE’s actions on government operations. She draws an analogy to an internal combustion engine lacking essential components:

“We're keeping all the same friction but losing the actual mechanisms that make things work... the feedback loops that made government work, but we haven't broken down the things that make it slow.”
[16:22]

This metaphor underscores her concern that without the foundational strengths of USDS, the government’s ability to implement and sustain effective technological solutions is severely compromised.

Ann’s Observations Missing in Media Coverage

Addressing media narratives, Marshall points out a critical oversight in how journalists are covering the situation. She notes:

“The media is very focused... but I don't see the media focusing as much on this has happened. This is the change. How do we move forward?”
[17:06]

She emphasizes the need for media to explore how to rebuild and reform government systems, particularly focusing on procurement reforms and the essential roles that specialized government technologists play in maintaining efficiency and effectiveness.

Conclusion

Ann Marshall’s departure from USDS serves as a poignant commentary on the challenges of implementing technological reforms within government structures. Her insights reveal a clash between mission-driven public service and abrupt, misinformed restructuring efforts under DOGE’s leadership. The episode underscores the critical need for thoughtful, data-driven approaches to government technology initiatives and hints at a potential resurgence of civic tech entrepreneurship as a response to these disruptions.

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Ann Marshall on USDS Mission:

  “...the reward is if we succeed, n million of people can keep Medicare.”
  [02:29]

• Ann Marshall on Firings:

  “They fired one engineer and they fired half of design and product and procurement... We work on technical problems, but the problem is usually not the technology.”
  [03:44]

• Ann Marshall on Data Science Value:

  “If you don't have data science, you're playing Battleship... you want a data science to tell you where to aim.”
  [07:50]

• Ann Marshall on Potential of DOGE:

  “There is absolutely a version of Doge that could have worked and could have been tremendous.”
  [09:18]

• Ann Marshall on Government Servicing Everyone:

  “Government serves everybody. And you don't get to decide that.”
  [13:16]

• Ann Marshall on Media’s Missed Focus:

  “Nobody is looking... procurement reform is the path to make government better.”
  [17:06]

This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing a clear understanding for those who haven't listened to the podcast.