Will Trump’s antitrust pick be a reset for Big Tech?

Summary

Podcast Summary: POLITICO Tech – "Will Trump’s Antitrust Pick be a Reset for Big Tech?"

Release Date: February 18, 2025
Host: Stephen Overleaded
Guest: Mohar Chatterjee, POLITICO Tech Contributor

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Introduction

In the February 18, 2025 episode of POLITICO Tech, host Stephen Overleaded delves into the implications of President Donald Trump's nominee for the Justice Department’s Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust, Gail Slater. The episode explores how Slater’s appointment could signal a significant shift in antitrust enforcement against Big Tech, contrasting her approach with that of the Biden administration.

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1. Gail Slater’s Nomination and Confirmation Process

Stephen Overleaded opens the discussion by highlighting the significance of Gail Slater’s pending confirmation to lead the DOJ’s antitrust division. Slater’s role is pivotal in determining how the Trump administration will address the growing market power of major technology companies.

[02:04] Mohar Chatterjee: "She is planning to take a scalpel to big Tech," indicating a more precise and targeted approach compared to broad regulatory sweeps.

Slater is poised to oversee high-profile antitrust lawsuits against tech giants like Apple and Google, as well as potential new investigations into emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence (AI).

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2. Slater’s Antitrust Approach: Scalpel vs. Sledgehammer

Mohar Chatterjee explains that Slater’s metaphor of using a "scalpel" suggests a preference for meticulous and efficient antitrust enforcement over the "sledgehammer" approach perceived during the Biden administration.

[02:04] Mohar Chatterjee: "It's much more efficient for the antitrust enforcement arm of the DOJ to engage with the tech industry than it is for Congress to pass regulation."

This approach emphasizes utilizing existing laws rather than introducing new regulations, aiming to address monopolistic practices without broad legislative changes.

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3. Contrasting with the Biden Administration’s Antitrust Policies

The conversation draws a clear distinction between Slater’s intended strategies and the Biden administration’s more aggressive stance on antitrust matters under Jonathan Kanter and Lina Khan.

[03:18] Stephen Overleaded: "Under Biden, ... Lina Khan at the FTC ... were essentially seen as villains."

While the Biden administration pursued sweeping and broad antitrust actions, Slater appears set to adopt a more focused and restrained methodology.

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4. Gail Slater’s Background and Its Implications

Mohar Chatterjee provides an overview of Slater’s professional history, underscoring her deep ties to the Trump administration and the tech industry.

[06:01] Mohar Chatterjee: "Slater held top executive roles at Roku, Fox Core and a tech industry trade group called the Internet Association."

Her extensive experience within both government and the tech sector suggests a nuanced understanding of the industry, potentially influencing her antitrust enforcement policies to be more industry-friendly.

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5. Big Tech and the Suppression of Conservative Speech

The episode addresses the longstanding Republican criticism that Big Tech suppresses conservative voices online. Stephen Overleaded queries how Slater views this issue, reflecting on the mixed messages from Republicans regarding tech censorship.

[07:54] Mohar Chatterjee: "Slater said there are non-antitrust ways to lessen what conservatives feel is the disappearance of their views from the Internet."

Slater acknowledges concerns about a duopoly in social media platforms, which could facilitate censorship regardless of political leaning. However, she emphasizes addressing these issues through existing antitrust frameworks rather than introducing new regulations.

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6. Antitrust Concerns in the AI Industry

With AI becoming increasingly dominant, the discussion shifts to how Slater might handle competition within this burgeoning field.

[10:49] Mohar Chatterjee: "Slater said that it's too soon to tell" regarding monopolistic behaviors in the AI sector.

Slater’s cautious stance suggests a wait-and-see approach, contrasting with the Biden administration’s proactive measures in examining AI-related market concentrations. This indicates a potential divergence in how antitrust issues in AI might be addressed under different administrations.

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7. Mergers & Acquisitions: Supporting "Little Tech"

The episode explores Slater’s perspective on mergers and acquisitions (M&A) and their impact on smaller tech companies, often referred to as "Little Tech."

[13:18] Mohar Chatterjee: "Slater echoed that divestitures can ensure pro-competition, pro-consumer environments."

Slater’s support for M&A as a tool for fostering competition aligns with the interests of venture capital firms like Andreessen Horowitz, which favor acquisitions as a lucrative exit strategy for startups. This stance suggests a more accommodating approach to M&A, potentially enabling smaller tech firms to thrive without being overregulated.

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Conclusion

As Sue Overleaded and Mohar Chatterjee wrap up the episode, they underscore the uncertainty surrounding Slater’s confirmation and the future of antitrust enforcement under the Trump administration. The contrasting approaches between Slater and her Biden predecessors highlight the evolving landscape of antitrust policy in the tech industry, particularly as it grapples with issues like AI dominance and the balance between regulation and industry growth.

[15:06] Mohar Chatterjee: "Thank you for listening to me geek out about antitrust. I really appreciate it."

Listeners are encouraged to stay tuned to POLITICO Tech for ongoing coverage of these developments.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mohar Chatterjee [02:04]: "It's much more efficient for the antitrust enforcement arm of the DOJ to engage with the tech industry than it is for Congress to pass regulation."

• Stephen Overleaded [03:18]: "Under Biden, ... Lina Khan at the FTC ... were essentially seen as villains."

• Mohar Chatterjee [07:54]: "Slater said there are non-antitrust ways to lessen what conservatives feel is the disappearance of their views from the Internet."

• Mohar Chatterjee [10:49]: "Slater said that it's too soon to tell" regarding monopolistic behaviors in the AI sector.

• Mohar Chatterjee [13:18]: "Slater echoed that divestitures can ensure pro-competition, pro-consumer environments."

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This comprehensive analysis provides listeners with a detailed understanding of the potential shifts in antitrust policy under Gail Slater’s leadership, offering insights into the broader implications for Big Tech and the evolving intersection of technology and policy.

Transcript

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[Stephen Overleaded]

Hey, welcome back to Politico tech. Today's Tuesday, February 18th. I'm Stephen Overleaded. President Donald Trump's nominees are trudging through the Senate confirmation process, and there are a number of them that I'm watching closely. Near the top of that list is Gail Slater. She is up for the job of assistant attorney general for antitrust in the Justice Department and will play a pivotal role in shaping how the administration grapples with the tech industry's market power. Slater will inherit high profile lawsuits against the likes of Apple and Google and decide whether to launch new antitrust investigations as technologies like artificial intelligence become more ubiquitous. Now, it would be an understatement to say big tech companies want an antitrust reset. Under Trump, they came to loathe antitrust enforcement under President Joe Biden and his top antitrust officials, Jonathan Kanter at DOJ and Lina Khan at the Federal Trade Commission, were essentially seen as villains. Slater testified about her approach to antitrust in a Senate confirmation hearing last week. And on the show today, my colleague Mohar Chatterjee tells me what she revealed. Here's our conversation. Mohar, welcome back to POLITICO Tech.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

It is a pleasure to be here, as always.

[Stephen Overleaded]

So President Trump's nominee for the Justice Department's antitrust chief is making her way through the confirmation process. And she told lawmakers that she plans to take a scalpel to big Tech. Tell me about that.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

That little phrase caused a great reaction within Washington watchers of the confirmation hearing. She's been meeting with lawmakers, but I think this is the first time she's publicly talked about taking a scalpel to the tech industry. And the she meant that, it seems, is to say that it is much more efficient for the antitrust enforcement arm of the DOJ to engage with the tech industry than it is for Congress to pass regulation. Another instance in which Congress might be sidelined in terms of passing broad regulation, but also a notion in which you are talking about her own domain, the DOJ's antitrust domain, to become a much active actor. So more people than not not think that she's talking about being an aggressive enforcer, really, of the antitrust arm. While doing that, she's also saying, you don't need regulation, you can use existing law. We are going to handle what needs to be handled when it comes to egg prices, tech industry monopolization of platforms to pharma prices. She's being pretty aggressive there.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Yeah. And I guess, you know, the opposite of a scalpel in this case would be a sledgehammer, which is what a lot of folks think the Biden administration took to tech and antitrust, just sort of really sweeping and broadly aggressive action, as opposed to focused. But Slater is inheriting a large docket of antitrust cases, including two major court battles with Google. She referred to the DOJ's sort of recent spate of antitrust action as historic, but it isn't clear that she really meant that as a compliment.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

Right. So it is kind of interesting, her signaling what cases she's going to go after, because I think she's left herself a lot of leeway in terms of what she does pick up in terms of antitrust enforcement, because she said that there were resource constraints to potentially pulling through with the Google case, the Apple case. She talked about how these cases were not necessarily an ordinary use of the Sherman Act. And there is something to be said about the fact that she looks at tech monopolization, and she says, well, maybe we're not going to continue this the way the Biden administration had started or done. Maybe we're going to take this a different way. Remember, a lot of these cases actually have multiple plaintiffs, so there are a lot of states involved in this litigation as well, so they could very well take forward. But she's giving the DOJ a way to sort of craft its own path when it comes to doing Trump's antitrust agenda.

[Stephen Overleaded]

In Trump's first term, there was some aggression toward big tech on the antitrust front, including some of these cases that were actually initially brought under Trump and that Biden continued. So there is some continuity. But I think the tech industry would say the Biden administration was sort of far more aggressive and sweeping in its antitrust policy.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

I mean, I would remind people that FTC's Lina Khan had developed a reputation for bringing cases that maybe weren't winnable, but the very fact that she brought a case forward was enough for those companies to be put on notice. And I think Slater's very clearly signaling that she's going to take a different tact. And we can get into that later, but I don't think she's going to bring as many cases to a jury as before for.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Well, Gill Slater is a known entity in tech circles. You know, she's worked for both President Trump and Vice President J.D. vance in the past. What is her background exactly and what does that tell us about her support for the tech industry?

[Mohar Chatterjee]

Gail Slater actually led the Trump administration's transition efforts into tech policy appointments in the White House at the agencies alongside Michael Gracios. She was also economic policy advisor to J.D. vance. Slater did also work for Trump during his first term as special assistant to him on tech on telecom and cybersecurity issues. She even brought up 5G during her confirmation hearing. So she's got already her druthers well within the Trump administration, the Trump circles, but she's also been a close sort of engager with the industry. She held top executive roles at Roku, Fox Core and a tech industry trade group called the Internet association that's now defunct. But she's played the industry role, she's played the internal policy role for this set of people for a while.

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[Stephen Overleaded]

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[Mohar Chatterjee]

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[Stephen Overleaded]

There seem to be mixed messages from Republicans these days about whether big tech is suppressing conservative speech online. You know this is for years been a criticism that lawmakers have levied against the industry and yet some of them are now softening their stance I think in part because Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg and some of these other tech leaders are very cozy with this administration. What was Slater's take on that issue?

[Mohar Chatterjee]

So this is an interesting question because I push back to you on the premise of that just a little bit. But then you are proved true in the end. Let me explain.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Okay.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

Cruz was sitting there blowing the horn about how big tech platforms were censoring conservative views, right? But then when Slater responded she actually took a much more middle ground route to answering, which makes me think that the old guard of like big tech censorship may not actually be that influential in the reality of the Trump administration. So Slater said there are non antitrust ways in which we could get to a lessening of what conservatives feel as though is a disappearing of their views from the Internet. But she did also say that a duopoly of platforms in the Internet makes it easier for people to be censored in whatever their views are. And in doing so, she talked about an antitrust threat thrust into breaking up big social media platforms. But she was very careful in how she stated it. And she did try to provide a very reasonable answer to the censorship question because it does come down on some level to a degree of personal liberty, which so far has not been considered in the consumer welfare standard that, like, backstops antitrust movement. But it sounds, conversely, the Trump administration might actually be looking at, as Hawley put it, data protection, as Cruz put it, self expression protections in their idea of how social media platforms should treat the consumers who give them their data.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Right. Which is such a flashback to the first administration. Some of these ideas started then where, as you're saying, the consumer welfare standard, which traditionally is, you know, if consumers are paying higher prices, then that's bad and a sign of a lack of competition. They've looked to broaden that to be if, you know, a consumer's free speech rights are, you know, being constrained or if their data is vulnerable, are those actually signs of a lack of market competition or signs of a monopoly? And so, you know, what's old is new in some ways because these questions are going to be batted about for the next four years.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

It takes so long to answer these questions in court that I am not surprised that they've made their way back around the bend to Washington.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Absolutely. I mean, one thing that is new compared to the last time Trump was in power is the rise and dominance around AI. And I wonder if you got a sense of whether Slater wants to take a close look at competition among AI companies, because that's an issue that the DOJ and FTC were exploring under Biden. And a lot of tech companies are hoping Trump will go in a different direction.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

So Slater made one point pretty clearly, and she said that AI is a nascent industry. And she talked about how in some parts of the strac, there were reasonable amounts of competition. And she also, in other parts of her statement to the Senate, talked about how it's really difficult to consider how markets are concentrated based on basic fact economic factors like how much companies evaluated at. So she didn't actually shed a lot of light on how she would consider the AI industry to be a place where there are concentrated market powers who are doing some form of, like, monopolistic behavior. She did say that it's too soon to tell. And that almost echoes the words of Judge Amit Mehta in his opinion on one of the Google search monopoly cases where he said it's simply too early to explain what the mechanisms are that's going to entrench incumbent powers in the AI market. So I think in that sense, she is giving herself another big escape hatch where she's saying, we don't know what's going to happen with the AI industry. We don't want to prosecute as if there are existing monopoly powers. In fact, look at different parts of the AI stack. You know, maybe we're going to do things differently from Lina Khan, where Lina Khan, I will remind you, said we looked at different stacks in the AI market and we're trying to break up monopolies or oligopolies in certain sectors of the stack. I don't think the Trump administration is going to approach things the same way.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Right. And, well, you know, we just heard recently from the vice president speaking in Paris that they want to build, build, build on AI, that regulating AI and hampering its development in any way is, is not part of their agenda. And so I imagine that includes antitrust. You know, the other thing that J.D. vance has talked about, President Trump has talked about, is this concept of little tech, you know, and basically that the government has to ensure smaller tech companies are not overregulated or drowned out by the big guys. And there are a lot of little tech supporters of President Trump, including Andreessen Horowitz, the big venture capital firm. This is something they talk a lot about. When I talk to little tech folks from that crowd, they are generally in favor of strong antitrust enforcement. I'm curious how you see that playing out.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

I want to remind people of a very specific thing in the startup crowd in Silicon Valley, which is that a very lucrative form of exiting from that space is acquisition. So mergents and acquisitions is a thing that most people in the Trump circles, from David Sacks to Andreessen Horowitz, want to see happen. And Slater actually echoed this where she said, you know, divestitures can be a very robust way to ensure pro competition, pro consumer environments. And this is something that law professor Rebecca Hall Allensworth clued me into and then I read up on. It's basically this idea that mergers and acquisitions were a thing that were good for people who are trying to stand up small companies and make money off of them and maybe like, settle somewhere nice in the Bahamas. It's this idea that you should be able to go through with some kind of consolidation. And that's actually a win for little tech. And this is one place where Slater weighed in and said, that's actually acceptable to us. And someone else from the tech industry. It was Satya Thalem, Americans for Responsible Innovation, AI lobbying group, former Trump Tech official. He said that this, it was not a stretch to imagine that this is how Trump's deal making sense plays out within the government that he's creating. It's this idea that you can let things continue, make everyone happy if you just make compromises along the way. Lina Khan was not a compromiser, but I think Gail Slater might be.

[Stephen Overleaded]

Well, we will watch the rest of her Senate confirmation process play out and then see how she handles things once she's over at doj. Mohar, thanks for being here on Politico Tech.

[Mohar Chatterjee]

Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to me geek out about antitrust. I really appreciate it.

[Stephen Overleaded]

That's all for today's Politico Tech. If you enjoy Politico Tech, please subscribe. And for more tech news, subscribe to our newsletters, Digital Future Daily and Morning Tech. Our managing producer is Annie Reiss. I'm Stephen Overlevel. See you back here tomorrow.