347:  Kris Jenner’s $250K Facelift is Slipping?, Lena Dunham Spills on Jack Antonoff and Lorde + Alex v Alix Fallout Continues

Summary

Pop Apologists — Episode 347

Kris Jenner’s $250K Facelift is Slipping?, Lena Dunham Spills on Jack Antonoff and Lorde + Alex v Alix Fallout Continues

Date: April 22, 2026
Hosts: Lauren & Chandler

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Episode Overview

In this episode, sisters Lauren and Chandler serve up their signature, irreverent take on the latest celebrity headlines and industry rumors. They dig deep into the Kris Jenner facelift controversy, dissect Lena Dunham’s new memoir revelations about Jack Antonoff and Lorde, and thoroughly analyze the ongoing drama between Alex Cooper and Alix Earle. The sisters also touch upon recent developments involving Amy Griffin’s memoir and discuss Charlize Theron's harrowing backstory. With their usual blend of sarcasm, insider-y pop culture knowledge, and honest disclosures, Lauren and Chandler dish up both laughs and genuine insights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kris Jenner’s Reportedly "Slipping" Facelift

[08:18–22:01]

• Tabloid Reports: Reports claim Kris Jenner is "irate" that her $250K facelift, performed only a year prior, is already "slipping." Page Six alleges her frustration is heightened by how good Denise Richards and Lori Loughlin look post-facelift.
• Facelift Rivalry is Overblown:
  • Lauren calls the comparison silly: “It’s very hard for me to imagine that she’s like, ‘and Denise Richards looks amazing, I’m so mad.’ Denise Richards is, what, 20 years younger than Kris Jenner?” [11:31]
  • Chandler concurs, saying Kris and Denise are "just a different canvas. A younger canvas." [11:38]
• Surgical Realities:
  • Chandler offers personal insight, explaining the “honeymoon period” after major work, when swelling makes results temporarily more dramatic. “You’re going to be swollen and you’re really going to like the way you look like in the next four to five days. And he was right.” [13:05]
  • Lauren points out surgeons deliberately “overdo it a little bit” at first because things relax as swelling subsides. [14:17]
• Plastic Surgery Discourse:
  • The sisters flag that this story may be “clickbait BS” potentially fueled by plastic surgeons to plug certain techniques.
  • Ariel Laurie’s theory is introduced: TikTok surgeons are stoking drama about the type of facelift Kris got (“SMAS” vs. “deep plane”) for their own content marketing. [19:35]
• Social Media vs. Reality:
  • Chandler: “The Kardashians use crazy AI, you know, face tuning filters over their Instagram content...once you start doing that, then whenever your real face appears, it is going to look pretty different.” [21:03-21:28]

Notable Moment

“Debuting your new facelift at the cancer research event. We live in hell.” — Chandler [09:57]

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2. Lena Dunham’s Memoir Bombshell: Jack Antonoff, Lorde, “Bad Blood,” and That Unhinged PDF

[22:01–29:51]

• Lena’s Plastic Surgeon Story: Lena jokes that her “best features are what you can see through a ski mask” after a plastic surgeon points to the area from her brow to under-eye. [22:22]
• Memoir Details:
  • Lena recounts Jack Antonoff, her then-partner, becoming close with a "teen pop star" (Lorde) during late stages of their relationship.
  • Lauren summarizes: "Jack Antonoff FaceTimed her from his home recording studio where he was... ensconced with a teen pop star I was too oblivious to be jealous of." [24:05]
  • Lena finds the singer sprawled on their couch, crying into Jack’s lap, while Jack utters, "your teens are for experimenting." [25:44]
  • Lorde allegedly called Lena “Aunt Lena,” which she found cringeworthy.
• Infidelity & Breakup Theories:
  • Internet rumors (and a viral “Lorde and Jack: An Emotionally Broken Journey” PDF) have long speculated about Jack and Lorde’s emotional or romantic affair.
  • Chandler notes that later in her memoir, Lena admits to also cheating on Jack (with a childhood friend). [26:55]
• Taylor Swift Connections:
  • Discussion on Taylor’s (Tay’s) loyalty, given her close friendship with both Lena and Jack as a frequent musical collaborator.
  • Chandler quotes Lena’s moving thanks to Taylor in the book:

    “tay, tay. You sing the songs I wrote this book to, the stories that pulled these stories out of me. The music that makes the whole world feel seen...” [27:53]

  • Lauren points out Taylor and Jack continued to work together for years after Lena and Jack split, fueling questions about “bad blood” dynamics in this extended friend group.

Notable Moment

"Very, very crazy that we are having a celebrity actually say, like, about my breakup. By the way, this is what I think happened. That never happens." — Lauren [26:49]

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3. Ryan Reynolds Stands by Blake Lively Amidst Lawsuit Scandal

[33:11–36:41]

• Ryan’s Statement: On the ‘Sunday Sit Down’ with Willie Geist, Ryan says:

  “I have never in my life been more proud of my wife. People have no idea what is really going on. I have never been more proud of someone in my life with that level of integrity that they bring with them in everything they do.” [33:46]

• PR Analysis:
  • Lauren and Chandler argue this was a calculated, PR-coached move to present a united front and protect Blake’s image during legal troubles.
  • Lauren: “There’s no way that Ryan Reynolds went on any sort of major news outlet and gave an interview and did not agree beforehand what questions could be asked about Blake Lively.” [36:16]
• Trial Speculations: Both expect revelations to occur on the witness stand in future coverage.

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4. The Ongoing Alex Cooper vs. Alix Earle Drama

[36:47–45:38]

• The Fallout:
  • Alix Earle’s only response to the drama is a viral stripper pole video set to “You Don’t Own Me.” [36:57]
  • Lauren suggests this conflict is cleverly being orchestrated to push viewers toward Alix’s upcoming reality show—a “masterful marketing” move. [37:38]
• Insider Rumors:
  • A TikTok sleuth claims the drama began over political differences — specifically, that Alix Earle’s conservative father objected to Alex Cooper’s interview with Kamala Harris and wanted stricter contract terms for promotional appearances on the Unwell Network. [38:14–40:33]
  • Chandler contextualizes Alix Earle’s value: she was the first podcast signed to Cooper’s “Unwell Network,” emphasizing her perceived star power. [41:33]
• Audience Connection:
  • LadyGang’s analysis is highlighted: Cooper never takes deals that would position her as “just a celebrity”—her team pushes for “Oprah of Gen Z” status. In contrast, Alix Earle accepts diverse brand deals, making her more relatable and beloved to fans. [42:20]
  • Lauren:

    “Alex Cooper doesn’t take any deals that aren’t positioning her as, like, the Oprah of Gen Z...because Alix Earle does take all of these deals...people really, really love Alix Earle.” [42:35]

  • Conversation closes with insights on why Cooper’s show feels less personal, making Earle appear more approachable and relatable.

Notable Moment

“I just think it would be very annoying if you came up with Unwell if I was Sophia Franklin and Alex Cooper had made that her brand...and you’re just completely cut out of all of that.” — Chandler [41:09]

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5. Amy Griffin’s Memoir Under Fire: Lawsuit Accuses Her of Stealing Survivor’s Story

[48:54–55:33]

• Background: Amy Griffin’s memoir, about surviving sexual assault (memories uncovered via MDMA therapy), was recently questioned by the NYT for its fact-checking and a potential conflict of interest (her husband is an investor in MDMA therapy promotion). [49:50]
• New Lawsuit:
  • "Claudia" (a pseudonym) is now suing, claiming Amy Griffin or her team posed as talent scouts, interviewed her for “her story,” and then plagiarized details in Griffin’s book without consent or compensation. [52:17–53:03]
  • Claudia is a low-paid caregiver who found her trauma taken and repackaged by a billionaire.
  • Both sisters call the conduct “deplorable” and “horrifically wrong.”
  • Publishing houses, they note, frequently do not fact-check memoirs, leading to potential abuses of this scale. [55:15]

Memorable Quote

“The really, like, psycho part of it is that she wanted to be the one who had had this experience and that she needed, you know, allegedly...so much of this is on the publishing house. Why didn’t they fact check?" — Chandler [54:53]

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6. Charlize Theron’s Childhood Ordeal

[56:01–61:33]

• Shocking Story: Charlize Theron shares in a new interview that, as a teenager in South Africa, her alcoholic father shot through her bedroom door in a violent rage. Her mother killed him in self-defense. [56:01–57:51]
  • Lauren notes, “I think the part of it that is the most disturbing... is that this story ...is all too common. And really what she says is like, you know...in one night, [it] can escalate to this degree.” [58:14]
  • Discussion highlights Charlize’s desire not to let this trauma define her public persona.
• Career Parallels: Chandler mentions the parallels reflected in Theron’s Oscar-winning role in "Monster," drawing on her understanding of trauma.

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7. Summer House: Amanda, West, and Sierra Triangle

[62:28–66:03]

• Upcoming Drama: Editors are recutting Summer House episodes to highlight the Amanda/West/Sierra love triangle in light of recent revelations, hinting at a highly dramatic upcoming episode. [62:28]
• West’s Side: A recent West interview stresses “there was no overlap” with Amanda and Sierra, but the sisters question the ethics and transparency behind the relationship timeline. [64:13–66:03]
• Lauren:

  “It’s your best friend’s ex who she’s still caught up on. Does it matter if they’re actively hooking up or not?”

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8. Celebrity Sightings: Irina Shayk, Ed Sheeran, Kieran Culkin

[66:03–68:41]

• Lauren and Chandler swap stories about encountering Irina Shayk and Kieran Culkin at small events and on public transit in New York.
• The sisters joke about how these brushes with fame add excitement, with Lauren deadpanning, “I just said loudly...as the co-host of Pop Apologists, I really hope I don’t get recognized tonight.” [68:06]

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Notable Quotes

• “Debuting your new facelift at the cancer research event. We live in hell.” — Chandler [09:57]
• “Your best features are what you can see through a ski mask.” — Lena Dunham, recounted by Lauren [23:12]
• “I have never in my life been more proud of my wife. People have no idea what is really going on.” — Ryan Reynolds [33:46]
• “It would be very annoying if you came up with ‘Unwell’...and you’re just completely cut out of all of that.” — Chandler [41:09]
• “The really, like, psycho part of it is that she wanted to be the one who had had this experience...so much of this is on the publishing house. Why didn’t they fact check?” — Chandler [54:53]
• “It’s your best friend’s ex who she’s still caught up on. Does it matter if they’re actively hooking up or not?” — Lauren [65:32]

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Recommended Listening Timestamps

• Kris Jenner Facelift Discussion: 08:18–22:01
• Lena Dunham, Jack Antonoff, Lorde: 22:01–29:51
• Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively Lawsuit: 33:11–36:41
• Alex Cooper vs. Alix Earle: 36:47–45:38
• Amy Griffin Lawsuit and Memoir Fallout: 48:54–55:33
• Charlize Theron’s Childhood Story: 56:01–61:33
• Summer House Love Triangle: 62:28–66:03
• Celebrity Sightings: 66:03–68:41

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Final Thoughts

This episode encapsulates what Pop Apologists does best: witty pop culture banter, unexpected self-disclosure, and sharp industry analysis, all delivered in a way that fans and casual listeners alike can savor. Whether you’re craving the inside scoop on celebrity facelifts, podcast network power struggles, or memoir ethics scandals, Lauren and Chandler serve up a blend of humor, empathy, and “did-they-really-just-say-that?” moments.

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For full breakdowns, hot takes, and more, tune in to the full episode wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Lauren]

Okay, I must admit, I'm such a procrastinator when it comes to holiday gifting. So if you're anything like me and tend to leave Mother's Day shopping until the very last minute, I have amazing news. Macy's bouquet of deals is happening right now and new deals are dropping every single day. We're talking KitchenAid, Lancome, Prada Hotel Collection and more. So if you've been putting it off because you don't know what to get, this is actually a very good place to start. What I like is that it doesn't have to be some huge splurge to still feel thoughtful. And they have a ton of great gifts under $50, which is perfect if you're shopping for multiple moms, mother in laws, grandmas, or just trying to stay under budget. And while you're shopping, don't skip Macy's backstage. The store within a store that feels like the ultimate treasure hunt. They have fun finds under $25, making it a great stop for thoughtful add ons, budget friendly gifts or something for yourself. Shop now in stores or online@macy's.com

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

back together, gathered here, you know, in spirit but not in person. Chandler has traversed this gorgeous country we live in to attend the graduation of our dear sister from college. Chandler is reporting from Utah. Hello, hello.

[Chandler]

I'm reporting from our nephew's bedroom in Utah. I am surrounded by stuffed animals and huge dinosaurs. You know, there's just something humbling about having to record like Set up your laptop on the floor of your nephew's bedroom. Like, it's just like, yeah, this is my job. But it's. It's. It's humbling.

[Lauren]

Yeah. You know, we're. We're back to the beginning of the show when we would frequently record from Courtney's house when she lived in Utah. Well, it's great to be gathered with you here today, Chandler.

[Chandler]

I have to tell you, because I am back in Utah. Do you know what experience I'm having yet again?

[Lauren]

This is perfect. I was about to ask if you had a personal anecdote that could warm up, warm us up today on the show, and I would love to hear.

[Chandler]

There's only one place in the world, you know, on God's green earth where, you know, when you get your coffee, you are asked up to anything fun today. Oh, gosh.

[Lauren]

Oh, you are back in the promised land in Zion. It is. It's truly a place unlike any other, where the customer service is met with a genuine, cheerful grin and inquisitive question about you and your, you know, your mental state.

[Chandler]

So I'm like, okay. You know, I'm like, I'll play ball. I don't. I don't have my latte yet. So I'm like, oh, you know, just working, thinking that'll be the end of it.

[Lauren]

Oh, wait, do you have Dutch brothers, by the way?

[Chandler]

Yeah, of course.

[Lauren]

Okay. You're okay. Please continue.

[Chandler]

Oh, okay. So, you know, I'm like, yeah, you know, just working, not much. And then she says, oh, what do you do for work? Oh, here we fucking go.

[Lauren]

Here we go.

[Chandler]

Now I got to say, oh, I'm a podcaster via the drive through window, which I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Saying that your profession is that you're a podcaster always feels lame. It always feels. Unless this person knows about your podcast. It always feels like I'm on the struggle bus trying to make this thing work.

[Lauren]

No, 100%. It's giving, you know, CEO on LinkedIn and Company of one. Just including yourself, essentially. It doesn't seem like a real job, and it just seems like something you're trying, and it is a little bit embarrassing every time. I feel the exact same way.

[Chandler]

Well, then she's like, oh, no way. That's cool. What's it about?

[Lauren]

Oh, here we go.

[Chandler]

Oh, here we go. It's just. It's just like. It's literally like slowly falling off a cliff.

[Lauren]

Well, then it's. So then you go, celebrity gossip. And they go, what's what's the latest?

[Chandler]

And I'm just like, I now need to drive away and just sort of, you know, cower. Process the shame I feel about my chosen profession.

[Lauren]

Well, not only that, but then you gotta do a song and dance about the latest news of the day. And it's, in your case, you're trying to get caffeine into your brain. Your brain stem has not received the neurotransmitters that caffeine fire. And when you're in that state, you don't want to speak, period. Let alone report on the facts of

[Chandler]

the day, let alone, like, punch in, clock in. So and lo and behold, it's like, you know, she asked me some other question and then I was like, today we're talking about, you know, Alex Cooper and Alex Earl, just like literally digging my own grave. And so anyway, thankfully my latte arrived at the window and I could drive away in shame. But, yeah, it's just, it's a unique experience and I'm grateful for the short, rude attitudes of most of the baristas in New York.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I'm just going to tell you one thing, though. I do think that this is. This must be in the Dutch Brothers handbook or training manual, because this is a distinctive personality unique to that corporation. I think you need to be getting better coffee. You a lot of times shame me on this podcast for habits or things that you think are a sophisticated or just not, you know, up to snuff. And I'm gonna say revealing that you went to the. Essentially, the McDonald's of coffee establishments is embarrassing for our brand.

[Chandler]

I'm rolling up my figurative sleeves because I am ready to go on this. Okay, Lauren.

[Lauren]

Oh, gosh, let's. No, no, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to open this can of worms. We cannot get into your coffee making process how great it is. We're not talking about that. We're not talking about how you make coffee at home. So don't bring it up. We're talking about your decisions when you are.

[Chandler]

Shut up. Shut up.

[Lauren]

We're talking about the decision you made this morning. Please don't bring in. Bring up the past.

[Chandler]

I do not like Starbucks. I also have. Have had several experiences at coffee shops around here where I haven't been super pleased with the. With the espresso and Dutch Brothers is reliably delicious to me.

[Lauren]

No, just be honest. You wanted a drive through. Be honest. I'm doing something to you. Be honest.

[Chandler]

Be honest. No, because a lot of Utah coffee shops have drive throughs anyway. I'M not gonna even go here with you because I feel I'm so comfortable in my truth. Like, do you see how I'm sitting up so straight right now? It's because I am so clear on my. On my. On what I want. And it's. And I don't need your own noise, like, coming at me.

[Lauren]

It's either that or you've just taken some, like, Coursera on how to really seem like you're telling the truth when you're lying through your teeth. We'll let the listeners decide. Chandler, it's great to be here with you. There is so much celebrity news to get into. And honestly, I don't have a lot to share about myself personally. There's really nothing going on. So should we just dive right in?

[Chandler]

We can dive right in. I mean, I did see a little note on our outline about your Delta journey.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So I did put that down. And then as I was, you know, setting up the computer, I realized what a boring story it is.

[Chandler]

It would probably be like one of those stories where you're like, oh, is that the punchline? When. Because you'll say that to me, you'll be like, and then what happened? And I'm like, that's what happened. And it's nothing. Nothing, you know, takes the wind out of your sails. Like, oh, is that the punchline?

[Lauren]

Well, it's just sometimes you're like, I thought we were building towards more, you know, And I don't. I don't want to have a moment like that for our listeners. They probably been through. They've been through enough already on this esteemed program. And maybe I'll talk about my Delta journey if there's time at the end. But there is quite a bit of celebrity news, so I feel like let's just, you know, know, roll up our actual pop culture sleeves and get to work, please.

[Chandler]

What do you want to begin with?

[Lauren]

Okay, it's a great question. I want to talk about Kris Jenner's facelift, because this is all over the news. You know, everyone is reporting that Kris Jenner is reportedly irate that her 100. I'm sorry, it's being reported. It's 100,000 guys. Wrong. At least 250. Her. Her $250,000 facelift is slipping. One year after it was performed, we all can remember, she stepped out looking so snatched in those, you know, gorgeous fits with the AI filters, even enhancing that facelift more than it had snatched her already. And anyway, now apparently she is very, very upset because she feels like it is fading fast.

[Chandler]

When you say Kris Jenner is irate. I am just picturing her walking through her house with her phone like this. I'm holding my phone up to my mouth. She's not to my ear, but to my mouth. Because she is voice texting. She's irate, and she's voice texting.

[Lauren]

Matthew, get Steven Levine on the phone immediately. Just with a cigarette and a martini. Yeah.

[Chandler]

So I have some thoughts here.

[Lauren]

Well, before you proceed with your thoughts, I'd like to share a little bit more about the reporting, the journalism, the fine journalism that we can hear today. So Page Six is saying that she is really, really mad about how good Denise Richards and Lori Loughlin look. So Lori stepped out for the Women's Cancer Research Fund unforgettable evening on March 11 and debuted her new snatch look. Chandler. I mean, she looks beautiful.

[Chandler]

Debuting your new facelift at the cancer research event. We live in hell.

[Lauren]

I don't think that she could go without, I guess, debuting the facelift.

[Chandler]

Of course, of course. It's just. I don't know. That sentence was. Was Dark, grim. Like, that's the reality.

[Lauren]

I am having a little bit of trouble as I report this because your hair. I need you to teach me the straightener, iron hair curling thing. Cause I'm looking at my princess ringlets essentially, and I just. I really like the way yours looks. So I need you to do a tutorial for all of us.

[Chandler]

I've offered multiple times. I know, to show you my ways. Yeah, I can. I can. I. Honey, I can do a FaceTime little tutorial.

[Lauren]

I'm.

[Chandler]

I'll make myself available to you also. Everybody, no one's asking about this, but I am having an extensions consultation call in a little bit after this. I told Mom I'm busy all afternoon. I've got calls back to back, but really, it's just My extensions consult. FaceTime consultation.

[Lauren]

We are a business where we're on camera twice a week. I would consider that to be a. A business meeting.

[Chandler]

100%. It's a board meeting. It's a. What are they? A quarterly earnings call. It's. It's. It's critical. Anyway, back to Kris Jenner.

[Lauren]

The shareholders will very much appreciate you working on the aesthetic of, you know, what we put out twice a week. Anyway, long story short, I guess Chris is so mad about Denise and Lori Loughlin. Denise Richards and Lori Loughlin's facelifts and how good they look. I find this to be a little bit silly. In my opinion, it's very hard for me to imagine that she's like, and Denise Richards looks amazing. I'm so mad. Denise Richards is, what, 20 years younger than Kris Jenner?

[Chandler]

That's what I was gonna say. I think that Kris Jenner's in a whole other age bracket. It's not like somebody who's really her peer, who just had a better surgeon. It's just a different canvas. A younger canvas.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Okay, so Ariel Laurie, who we love, did a TikTok, and she basically said that to her, this smells like total clickbait bs. And I. I don't know. I feel like there could be a grain of truth to this. What do you think?

[Chandler]

Well, I think there's a couple things at play here.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

I. I think that there is. You know what they call a honeymoon period after a procedure where you are more swollen and your face is really taut because you are swollen. In fact, I've had, you know, when I. When I got your facelift. When I got my deep plane facelift last year and I debuted at the cancer gala gala, you know, I was. I was furious when I saw Denise Richards results. I was like, I am 30. Denise Richards look so much better.

[Lauren]

When Lori Laughlin stepped out, you had to up your pills.

[Chandler]

Oh, I was. I was doubling my dose. I was doubling my dose also. It's like, why can't we just be a little bit happy for Denise Richards? She's clearly been through it. Like, let's just be happy that she got an amazing facelift. We don't need to, like, resent her or be mad at her. Kris Jenner's probably not actually doing this, but I just think it's like, let's just. Let's just all literally slow clap, like, and just be happy that Denise Richards is like, okay. And alive after what she's been through. Anyway, when I went in for a consultation at the doctors, you know, to look at what could be done about my under eye, you know, my dark circles.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

When I got a little bit of under eye filler, and it made a huge difference.

[Lauren]

This is a major disclosure, Chandler.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Guys, I am pumped full of fillers.

[Lauren]

I went into a very subtle amount of under eye filler.

[Chandler]

Yes. Because my. I have. I have hollowness underneath my eyes. And I was actually considering a much more expensive procedure because I'm on camera so much, and my dark shadows are part of my, you know, my journey on this earth. This something God handed to me and said, this is what you're going to deal with. My soldier, my strongest soldier. Here's Your dark shadows. Anyway, the. Where was I going? Oh, the doctor says to me after he gets it done, he goes, you're going to be swollen and you're really going to like the way you look like in the next four to five days. And he was right. My results are amazing. But it is just like, I even had myself a little taste of that honeymoon period where your results are where you're swollen and your skin is just like taut and perfect. And it's like. And so when you have a major facelift like this, you would also have, you know, arguably a much more extensive honeymoon period because it's a much more extensive procedure than a little bit of filler. And we are just maybe exiting that phase now where it's settling.

[Lauren]

They have to kind of overdo it a little bit. Especially with a facelift, they have to over tighten because they know it's going to relax. And the same thing with the under eye filler. If they put in too much, you can have a crazy fake love fake look. And so they have to underdo it a bit. But the underdoing plus the swelling makes you love it at the beginning because you're like, bitch, I'm flawless. Like, I don't need to podcast. I mean, get me a contract with Maybelline. Get me this Ford Models. Where's the office? Let's just get on the subway and go. That's what Chandler was telling me. I'm like, girl, relax. When you're someone subsides, you're gonna still wanna, you know, you're still gonna want your little radio gig the best.

[Chandler]

Is that I told. We told Ben right after I said, I got a 7K laser.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah, that was.

[Chandler]

So we said, like, I got a radio frequency laser. I was like, it looks so good. It was seven grand.

[Lauren]

It was fifteen hundred dollars. Chandler's under eye filler. But we told. We pulled a prank on Ben. So do you want to pull it up?

[Chandler]

I mean, I think. I think he actually responded quite well given that. I think he just said, like, oh. Like he said, oh, P E exclamation point.

[Lauren]

You were like, it's my number one insecurity. And it's. And it's just absolutely worth it. You made up some gobbledygook radio frequency

[Chandler]

energy emds MD laser. Well, and it's just so funny because I could. I know that on the other end of the phone, he was probably like, deep breathing, like, okay, it's her biggest insecurity. Like, I just need to be a supportive husband right now. We will figure this out. You know, in. In Wells Fargo, we will figure this out.

[Lauren]

Right, Exactly. When we're finally chapter 11, we will figure this out as a couple. We will.

[Chandler]

It'll be worth. Chapter 11 will be worth it because her biggest insecurity will be gone. Like, I don't want to be in chapter 11 with Dark Shadows, dark circles.

[Lauren]

I don't know. Yeah, no, there's not good lighting when you file chapter 11.

[Chandler]

No.

[Lauren]

I don't know if you've heard.

[Chandler]

It's such a grim expression. Okay, I have to issue a disclaimer because I can already potentially hear the DMS or the comments. I went to an ocular plastic surgeon for this. For this. So I went to a top of the line person. I know I was like also skeptical of under eye filler. It is the type of thing that should last for five years. And I felt like I was in very safe hands. All of the tools were there in case something went wrong. And I'm so happy I did it. And maybe I'll post on close friends, like one under eye done and one under eye not done. Because the results are insane.

[Lauren]

They're absolutely insane. He did an amazing job. And one thing I also another caveat. When we say on camera twice a week, we just want you to know that we are distinctly aware these are cameras we have set up. We are not quite on camera yet, you know, like other people.

[Chandler]

I mean, frequently you call, you call back rid to, you know, get you stepping out to get your, your FA or whatever you like to order.

[Lauren]

So funny to call backward on us and just see if they would even come. Anyway. Okay, back to Kris Jenner.

[Chandler]

Back to Kris Jenner. Enough about ourselves and our own faces. There are just so many days where I need to turn my brain off and relax and just slip into slumber. And I do not want to drink because drinking means that I will sleep worse.

[Lauren]

No, it definitely does. But you want that moment of just mellow in your brain. You want that kind of, that slight numbing effect. I'll be candid. And do you know what can provide that are early bird CBD gummies. Early bird CBD gummies are a panacea for all of our problems.

[Chandler]

Yes, they're incredible. We have been using them for years now, over, probably over four, five years at this point. There's nothing else that comes close to what they do. It's the perfect amount of CBD and thc. We love them so much. And if the gummies are not your thing, they also have a new product called Drops and they're just like a water soluble little tincture and they can be mixed seamlessly into any beverage.

[Lauren]

The drops are amazing. They're really easy to transport and everyone early bird CBD. Usually our code is 20% off but for their 420 sale this week only you can get 25 off. We never have this large of a discount 20 so we highly recommend going to earlybirdcbd.com either stocking up or trying for the first time their tincture or gummies. Use code 420 for 25% off. This mother's Day. I've been thinking so much about how moms are usually the ones behind all the little comforts that we remember most. I think one of the biggest gifts now looking back on my childhood is that we were really raised in spite of there being six of us in a very orderly house. And that came from a lot of work and effort from our mom. This Mother's Day I want to give my mom the same kind of effort she gave us every day. And Cozy Earth is where I'm going to get her a thoughtful gift. All the Bledsoe girls sleep on Cozy Earth. We absolutely love it. If you're gifting this Mother's Day, I highly recommend the waffle bathrobe or the Rib Terry bathrobe. Such great gifts. Also know that everything comes with a hundred night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty. So. So it's something that your mom can really count on. Let this Mother's Day be a reminder that she deserves care too. Discover how Cozy Earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code POP for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about Cozy Earth right here on POP Apologists because home starts with mom.

[Chandler]

Let's talk about Kris Rinder. So yeah, I was saying she's in the. She's potentially exiting the honeymoon period and and it is settling.

[Lauren]

Okay. Another theory by Ariel Laurie is that she thinks that, you know, plastic surgeons just they plastic surgeons are basically also full time content creators at this point. So many have these raging social media profiles and she thinks that this was maybe just something that was created by plastic surgeons on plastic surgeons on TikTok to kind of tout their method because she got a SMAS facelift and not a deep plane. And a deep plane obviously it kind of pulls everything up at once but this mass stays more superficial. And so anyway that is her theory that this was that this is BS and just either was created by the tabloids or created by plastic surgeons online trying to promote their own businesses. Regardless, I just want to raise some awareness right now and shed some light on some suffering going on. Because if you imagine, Chandler, you have paid $300,000 for a facelift by Steven Levine. You're past the cancellation window and these headlines dropped.

[Chandler]

Oh, shoot. Can you imagine that? It's like, no, I can't. That is real suffering.

[Lauren]

If I had to guess, he is absolutely getting calls for procedures to be cancelled.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it. It definitely doesn't look good, I think, especially because, you know, this wasn't like a husband. They didn't keep it on the DL. What doctor? This was. It was a very clear, like, this is what I got done. This is the doctor. This is a big kind of like PR moment for them.

[Lauren]

I almost wonder if she needs to give a statement.

[Chandler]

Yeah, she loves him.

[Lauren]

She invited him to her birthday party.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I mean, everyone was invited to that birthday party, but except us. One other thing I want to talk about, I just want to quickly say is that we cannot have this conversation without acknowledging the fact that the Kardashians use crazy AI, you know, face tuning

[Lauren]

filters over their Instagram content.

[Chandler]

Over their Instagram content, over all of their social media content.

[Lauren]

I don't think it's over their shows.

[Chandler]

No, I know. I'm just saying. Over. Over their social media content. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they are no stranger to a, you know, a facetune photo. And the thing that is very scary about that is like, once you start doing that, then whenever your real face appears, it is going to look pretty different. It's not going to look. I mean, it's almost like, like Meredith Marks level of like face tuning where it's like, what is happening? You are looking like a Bratz doll on your Instagram. And that is just not real life. So I think that's. That's another big part of this, you know, expectations versus reality.

[Lauren]

No, absolutely.

[Chandler]

Okay, well, I actually think this leads us perfectly to the Lena Dunham Jack Antonoff Lorde conversation that I want to have. But before we fully get into that, I want to talk about that video reposted of Lena Dunham talking about how she went dermatologist. And then she was like, okay, it was a, you know, it was a plastic surgeon.

[Lauren]

Plastic surgeon.

[Chandler]

Please share.

[Lauren]

What happened? Wait, it's just so funny. So basically this Lena Dunn video, she says that she goes to a plastic surgeon's office and she says, you know,

[Chandler]

let's Just say, I were to tell

[Lauren]

you, you can do whatever you want. What would you do?

[Chandler]

Money was no object.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And she says that she expects the plastic surgeon to be like, you're beautiful just as you are. But the plastic surgeon instead goes, you know, I really like to highlight my patient's natural beauty and features. And she says, your best features are between here. And she points to basically, like below her eyebrow, like, right. Like on her brow bone and right below her eye. So she goes from here to here. Basically. Lena says, so my best features are what you can see through a. Through a ski mask. So funny.

[Chandler]

It was so funny. I am loving all of the Lena Dunham content we were getting. I have bought Fame Tick. I have not started reading it yet, but I'm very excited to.

[Lauren]

It's really good. I'm almost halfway through it. It's very.

[Chandler]

Oh, no way.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

I'm excited. So we have to talk about the Jack Antonoff whole part of the book. And, you know, what she really says happened, you know, during the. During the tail end of their relationship while Jack Antonoff was helping Lorde produce her album.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So there was a very unhinged PDF, a 29 slide PowerPoint titled Lorde and Jack An Emotionally Broken Journey that alleged that melodrama. The album was about a situationship with Jack Antonoff. Okay. Even though most people thought it was a breakup album with a photographer that Lorde was dating who was older than her.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

So anyway, this PDF in itself could be a full episode, us just reading through it, because it's so funny. I highly recommend you guys all Google it. But anyway, Lena Dunham has actually alluded to this PDF in her memoir. So this is what she says. She writes in detail about her relationship with Jack Antonoff and how it ended. At some point, she says, an unnamed, quote, teen pop star who's become attached to Jack Antonoff enters the narrative. When Lena Dunham was visiting her dying grandmother in the hospital in summer of 2016, Jack Antonoff FaceTimed her from his home recording studio where he was, as Lena Dunham put it, ensconced with a teen pop star I was too oblivious to be jealous, to be jealous of. In the ensuing weeks, while Lena was dealing with pain from a cyst, she writes, all I could do was rock back and forth in the bathtub, trying to stay out of the way of Jack and the young singer.

[Chandler]

So Chandler, I mean, she talks about how whenever she would, like, come into the room, you know, to, like, get some or, you know, go into the common Areas of their apartment, like her and Jack Antonoff, are in a relationship. She would see them together and this teen pop star, allegedly Lorde, would refer to her as Aunt Lena.

[Lauren]

Yes. Would call her Aunt Lena.

[Chandler]

Oh, yeah, I always say Aunt. Sorry.

[Lauren]

I don't know. It's funny.

[Chandler]

It's like a. It's a weird tick.

[Lauren]

It's very dorit of you.

[Chandler]

I know.

[Lauren]

Yes. So she would call her Aunt Lena, which is. She just cringes at that. But Lena, I guess, confronted Jack and said that his relationship with the singer was, quote, striking an odd note and that she, quote, wanted something from him that he couldn't give her. He told her, you're just mad because she doesn't want to be your friend.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Also, I forgot to mention, there's a moment where she says she returned to the apartment to find the teen pop star sprawled across the sectional couch, weeping into Jack's lap, where he was then telling her, you know, your teens are for experimenting. Yeah.

[Lauren]

So I guess basically Lena was really busy working on Hillary Clinton's campaign during this time while they were writing. And Jack and Lord were spending a lot of time in Lena's home. I guess Jack was living with Lena, spending a lot of time together, writing this album. And the big rumor is that Jack and Lorde had a situationship and cheated on. On Lena or Jack cheated on Lena. So she literally DMed the creator of the PowerPoint. The PowerPoint. And she said she wanted to prove that she was in on it, that I could. A joke that I wasn't in fact, morphing into a pile of packing peanuts. And instead of a warm reception, Lena received an invitation to be on a podcast, which she declined. So very, very crazy that we are having a celebrity actually say, like, about my breakup. By the way, this is what I think happened. That never happens.

[Chandler]

Right. Well, I think also we should mention the fact that Lena then cheated on Jack during this period.

[Lauren]

Oh, Lena does cheat on Jack.

[Chandler]

Oh, I didn't.

[Lauren]

Where does that. Where is that?

[Chandler]

It's in the book.

[Lauren]

Okay, I have not got to that part yet.

[Chandler]

Yeah, so it was like. It was with a childhood friend, I guess. I think it was like a one time thing, as far as I know.

[Lauren]

Interesting. Okay.

[Chandler]

But yeah, anyway, I mean, I think there's so much here. There's like the Taylor Swift of it all. Our, you know, our favorite expression. Because like Taylor Swift and Jack Antonoff had such like a, you know, a history of working together. And then, you know, Lena and Taylor are such good friends and, And So maybe. I don't know. I'm curious where all the bad blood lies. Present day with Jack, Lena, Taylor, Lorde, Blake Lively. Like, every. I just. I would. I want to know where the bad blood is going. Like, in which direction does it flow?

[Lauren]

Yeah, I really don't know where these tensions lie. Except we do know that Taylor and Jack 100% do not work together whatsoever at all. And Lena and Taylor are still friends.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, Lena writes in the book and she says, tay, tay. You sing the songs I wrote this book to, the stories that pulled these stories out of me. The music that makes the whole world feel seen. And yet, somehow, miraculously, you also pick up every desperate call at every desperate hour. I love you so much and forever for the reasons that everyone does and for reasons all my own, which I thought was very sweet.

[Lauren]

Very sweet. When Taylor did her, like, tour of dinners last year in New York, was Lena part of it?

[Chandler]

There was one photo with Lena. Not maybe it wasn't last year, but the year before.

[Lauren]

Maybe there's a photocartney was there too. Can't remember.

[Chandler]

No, it was like, Gigi, Lena, they. They were spotted together In, I believe, 2024, like, out in London with, like, the Heim sisters.

[Lauren]

So you would just die to be, you know, at that table and hearing what they're saying about Jack Antonoff. Because the one thing is that's interesting to me is that Taylor went on to work with Jack Antonoff for a long time after Lena and Jack broke up. So I guess I would just be very, very curious what Taylor knew, what loyalties she felt she needed to have towards Lena. I guess, ostensibly, basically none. And what soured that relationship.

[Chandler]

I also think there maybe wasn't a ton of crazy, bad blood between Jack and Lena after the breakup. If you'll remember, she posted like, or she tweeted a list of baby names that they had come up with together. Do you remember this after they broke up? After they broke up, she posted this, like, screenshot of an.

[Lauren]

Of a.

[Chandler]

Notes, whatever of a note. And it was like, I just. Like, at Jack and Jack Antonoff, I just found this list we made of baby names. And it was just funny because one of them was like, I want to say, like, carrot. It was just cute. It was kind of, like, insane and also very cute. And it made me feel like, okay, maybe there's not crazy bad blood between the two of them. If she's, like, gonna post this.

[Lauren]

Maybe not on the surface, but clearly in her memoir, there is bad blood.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I Think she's kind of telling her her side of the last 10 years.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Okay, what do you want to get into next?

[Chandler]

What should we discuss? I mean, let's talk about Ryan Reynolds quickly. You know what he said about Blake Lively recently? This episode of Pop Apologists is brought to you by booking.com I've gotta say, if you're looking to grow your vacation rental business, this is kind of a no brainer. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world. And for good reason. Since 2010, they've helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. That's billion with a B. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? Once you're listed, your property gets in front of a massive global audience, which means more visibility, more bookings, and way less guesswork. And it's actually super easy. You can register your property in as little as 15 minutes. And nearly half of our hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking.com I

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

okay, so Ryan Reynolds went on like, a Today show program called the Sunday Sit down, and I believe it was with. Who's the interviewer? Anyway, it honestly doesn't matter because I don't really know him. Oh, Willie. Willie Geist. And Willie Geist asked him, you know, in the middle of everything that's going on, how is his family doing? And Ryan Reynolds said, you know, he just goes really without getting into too much. I have never in my life been more proud of my wife. People have no idea what is really going on. I have never been more proud of someone in my life with that level of integrity that they bring with them in everything they do.

[Lauren]

Okay. I don't have any hate for this. I think we have maintained from the beginning that we don't want to see this break apart their family. And so I like a man standing by his woman, regardless of if it's Blake Lively or anyone else.

[Chandler]

Yeah, we. We don't want to see him slight her on these interviews or act like they aren't a united front. The best thing that they can do is be a united front until this thing is done. I don't know if they'll stay together forever, but I think that it is. It's like, you know, for better or for worse.

[Lauren]

Mm.

[Chandler]

In sickness and in health, in lawsuits and in. Not in lawsuits.

[Lauren]

Exactly. And I think I had predicted on the show that I thought that they would get divorced, and I am very happy to be proven wrong in this regard.

[Chandler]

The only other thing I'll say, I do just think it's interesting, him saying, you know, nobody knows what's really going on because so much of this case, you know, was just happening via, you know, TikTok commentators. But now we have actual court documents, which should be the most factual record of what happened. So we do kind of know what's going on. Yeah, I guess, like, if something else is going on that we really don't know about, that proves that she has so much integrity, we should know about it. That's all.

[Lauren]

Yeah, well, and we should absolutely find out about it during trial when she. You know, when she. She has to be a witness at this trial. Right. So there's no way. She can't. She's not going to take the stand.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

So if anything, if we haven't heard about it in the court documents thus far, we should be hearing about it in reporting on the trial.

[Chandler]

Some of the, you know, little conspiracy comments that I saw were like, you know, it's interesting that he's doing this interview in New York because obviously, to be a New York jury, but obviously the jurors should, you know, have not heard anything about this case and should be completely unbiased.

[Lauren]

I mean, I had not even heard that this interview happened until yesterday when we were prepping for the show and thinking of what to record on. So I don't think everyone in New York, you know, has seen this full interview with Ryan Reynolds.

[Chandler]

It's blasting in Times Square right now. Lauren. No, I. Yeah, you're probably right. I. I just kind of always wonder, like, okay, did he go into this and say, hey, I want to do this Sunday Times interview about whatever, and you can ask me. Ask me this question, like, how much of this is engineered on the front end, you know, so that he can kind of put this little statement out, or. Because I just doubt that it was like, we're gonna. We're gonna catch Ryan Reynolds off guard and ask him this question.

[Lauren]

I think that's such a good point, and I would say all of it. I think there's no way that Ryan Reynolds went on any sort of major news outlet and gave an interview and did not agree beforehand what questions could be asked about Blake Lively. So I believe that this question was scripted and his answer was prepared. There's. There's no way. It wasn't. And probably they wanted to have, you know, another. A headline that's positive for Blake Lively out there.

[Chandler]

Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to talk about the latest in the Alex Cooper, Alex Earle?

[Lauren]

Well, basically the latest is we've gotten nothing from Alex Earle except for a dancing video to the song you don't own me. Did you see this?

[Chandler]

Yes. The bar, the, like, the stripper pole. Pole dancing video.

[Lauren]

Yes, she had a stripper pole video dancing to the song you Don't Own Me. And that apparently is the response. So a lot of people are thinking that this will all play out on her reality show. And if that's the case, this is low key, masterful marketing, because essentially what she just got Alex Cooper to do was to get a lot of people interested in Alex Earle's reality show who otherwise, like myself, were probably going to tune in. But for me, it was going to be because I needed to for. For work, not because I genuinely am super interested in Alex Earl. And so it might have been checkmate from Alex Earle.

[Chandler]

I mean, I will be tuning in absolutely, 100%. Also, I did come across a TikTok from a guy.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Who said that he had spoken to a ton of sources on this, and he put together some arguments on this. And I. I don't know where I stand of whether or not I think this is all true. I think also because Alix Earl's little sister, commented on it and said all of your sources are wrong, which I think is interesting.

[Lauren]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chandler]

But this is, you know, this is one scenario that he brings up. He talks about the political differences between Alex Cooper and Alex Earle.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

And so Alex Cooper had Kamala Harris on.

[Lauren]

Mm.

[Chandler]

This is allegedly. Apparently this bothered Alex. So Alex Earle's dad is like her. Kris Jenner is like her, you know, manager.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And apparently I think it bothered him that the Unwell Network was, you know, quite politicized in this way by having Kamala Harris on.

[Lauren]

Oh, interesting.

[Chandler]

And it caused a huge fight between potentially, allegedly all the caveats between Matt Kaplan, who also works on the Unwell Network, Alex's husband, and Alex Earle's dad. And it just led to, like, you know, a little bit of a fallout over. Over the politics of it all. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

So I thought that was interesting.

[Lauren]

Yeah, that is really interesting. And I had not heard that before, so thank you. And I can also see maybe that was true. Right. And Alex Earl's dad is conservative and really disliked that the Animal Network was so. So politically left. I mean, literally, Alex Cooper Interviewed Kamala Harris.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

So you could see that that could have caused some tension. And you could also see it being a strategy right now for the sister to say that's not true in order to protect Alex Earl's image, because, you know, it's not a good look for anyone in media to be conservative. So I can 100% see that being the case. I mean, most of us, A lot of us have very conservative fathers. You know, that's. That's not a crime, and that certainly is something a lot of us can relate to. The other thing that I think was interesting that I saw was that apparently when they had the Unwell super bowl party, she did not attend. And I guess Alex Cooper assumed that when Alex Earl would. When Alex Earl signed with the Unwell Network, that she would kind of give carte blanche, you know, presence at promotional appearances at the Unwell events, and just would do a lot more. And almost like Alex kind of owned her in a way.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

But apparently there was fighting between her dad and Alex Cooper because he was like, no, what are actually the deliverables? And he realizes how valuable Alex Earle is at anything and the attention that she draws and basically was like, you're not gonna get my daughter just for free to promote all of your stuff.

[Chandler]

Right. Another. Another interesting thing that. That ties into this, and I think just maybe like, the. The power dynamic and just like, the relationship between Alex Cooper and Alex Earl as it started was that Alex Earle was the first podcast to be signed on the Unwell Network, which I think shows kind of what Alex Cooper thought. Like, if there's just how much Alex Cooper was investing in Alex Earl or how much she thought Alex Earle is going to be, like, the thing for my budding podcast network. I mean, I don't. I don't know of a single other podcast off the top of my head that's on the Unwell Network. Do you.

[Lauren]

No. I don't know. Another podcast is on the Unwell Network.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it's interesting. Okay, last thing, and then we can move on, I swear, because I feel like I'm starting to enter the Alex versus Alex psychosis mode. Yeah, Like. Like I was in summer house psychosis. I'm still in summer house psychosis. But I just think it would be very annoying if you came up with Unwell if I was Sophia Franklin and Alex Cooper had made that her entire brand. Like, that word. Like, not that Sophia Franklin invented the word unwell, but if that was kind of your joke.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

You know, like, that would be so annoying if it's the water bottle, it's the network name. It's everything.

[Lauren]

And you're just completely cut out of all of that. I think that would be so enraging. What do you think about Breonna Chicken Fry basically saying that on her podcast. So she says that she knows what Alex Earle has on Alex Cooper, and that's why she's not worried at all for her friend.

[Chandler]

I mean, I believe her. I believe that Alix Earle has kind of all the power in this situation because she is just.

[Lauren]

She's just.

[Chandler]

To be honest, I feel like she has more of a fan base and more ride or dies for her. And honestly, just like, more budding potential than Alex Cooper does. Is that terrible to say? Well, bad.

[Lauren]

I mean, one podcast that did an amazing job of breaking all of this down is Lady Gang, so they have an Alex v. Alex episode. So if you want to hear a lot more, you should definitely listen to that. But one of the things they talk about is that she basically. Alex Cooper doesn't take any deals.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

That aren't positioning her as, like, the Oprah of Gen Z or of Millennials. So she doesn't take any sort of, like, Dancing with the Stars like that Carl's Jr. Commercial. A lot of people said, you know, she's so jealous Alex Cooper got that Carl's Jr. Commercial. And what they said is, no, like Alex or. Sorry, that Alex Earl got that commercial. Alex Cooper does not take stuff like that. Her team, I guess, is very strategic. They want to position her as an interviewer, as the new Oprah, not as a celebrity. What they say, though, is that because Alix Earle does take all of these deals and does do everything, people really, really love Alix Earle. And so that might be something that Alex Cooper is jealous of.

[Chandler]

Yes. I feel like she has just a fan base that writes for her, and I think she has. I mean, they. They talk about this on. On the Lady Gang podcast. Really, everyone should go listen. But there is a likability to her connection with her fans.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Like, she just is more. A little bit more approachable. I don't know. I feel like there's just. There's more people just like her more. Think about.

[Lauren]

Call her daddy. As a show, I've. I tune in when there's a celebrity guest I like. I don't hear anything about Alex Cooper, and apparently there's not, you know, she doesn't reveal anything on the show. We know everything about Alex Earl.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

At least we feel like we do. We feel like we know so much about her. And that is where I do think that, you know, if she wants to be the Oprah of our generation, maybe, you know, she's gonna get there no matter what, because she's too big to fail at this point. But I just think that when we think about Oprah, we really think about someone we knew a lot about. Like, we knew her weight struggles, we knew a lot about her life, and we felt like it wasn't just, you know, this. I mean, Oprah obviously isn't blonde, but it wasn't just this blonde girl in a sweatshirt interviewing people and chuckling completely.

[Chandler]

And I think, you know, I, I think that I, I feel like as Alex Cooper has gotten a lot bigger, it's really just only about whoever she's interviewing. And she does do, like, solo episodes. But I, I, I mean, honestly, I don't listen enough to fully know exactly what I'm talking about here, but I don't. I just don't connect to her as an audience member at all. And this one, the way that I connect to, like, a lot of other people who are in her position.

[Lauren]

Does she talk about her life now, or is it, like, when I was dating, this was my strategy for X, Y, or Z? I don't remember.

[Chandler]

I don't, I don't know. I like. Yeah, I'm curious. Call her daddy. Fans, like, weigh in.

[Lauren]

I thought I heard on Lady Gang that she basically says nothing about her life.

[Chandler]

Interesting. Which, like, anyway, I mean, this is why I don't really, like, listen, though. I don't find her podcast to be that. I don't find myself connecting to her in such a major way that I want to listen to her every week, regardless of who she's talking to. I mean, that's like, that's the power of, like, you know, some of our favorite podcaster, like Heather McDonald, where it's like, we don't care who she's talking to. We connect so much to her. We want to hear everything she's got to say because we feel so parasocially connected to her versus, you know, if

[Lauren]

we're just listening because you're interested in the person that they're interviewing.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

Okay, let's move on, though, because there is a lot going on with the Amy Griffin. But book the tell. And I find these new developments to be just absolutely wild. Okay, can we talk about how Mother's Day always sneaks up on me every year? I'm shocked by how suddenly it's here again.

[Chandler]

No, literally. And then you're in that Terrible panic where you really want to get something thoughtful, but you don't want to just panic by the first thing you see and call it a day. Exactly.

[Lauren]

Because with Mother's Day, I feel like the gift, I really want it to be something that's truly thoughtful for the woman who is responsible for breath bringing my soul onto the earth. Okay. And I want to get her something that she actually wants, not just something that checks the box.

[Chandler]

And honestly, Macy's is so good for that because they really do have every type of mom covered. Like, if your mom is super into beauty and has a full glam counter situation going on, Macy's has all the brands she actually wants, like Valentino, ysl, La Mer, Burberry, Prada, Olaplex, Miu Miu Shiseido, and Clarence.

[Lauren]

That's my thing. I feel like beauty can be such a good gift if you. If you know that they're into it. Because if your mom is the type who actually has a skincare routine and a favorite perfume, getting her something from a brand she truly loves is just an easy win.

[Chandler]

Totally. And then there's the moms who are just jewelry moms. Like the women who actually wear their nice jewelry on a random Tuesday with a white tee and always look chic.

[Lauren]

That's the type of mom I'll be someday.

[Chandler]

And you know what? I'll be right there with you. But Macy's also has pretty everyday jewelry pieces like diamond tennis bracelets, Effie diamond rings, diamond pendant necklaces. All those classic pieces that feel special but are still totally wearable.

[Lauren]

That's such a good Mother's Day gift too, because it's sentimental but still practical. It doesn't just sit in a drawer forever.

[Chandler]

Exactly. I also feel like there's a very specific type of mom who just lives to make things feel beautiful. Like even if she orders takeout, somehow she has the table set. Like she's hosting a dinner party for archdigest.

[Lauren]

Wait. Yes. The moms who have serving pieces and the matching platters, the right little bowls for everything.

[Chandler]

And Macy's is so good for that too. They have gorgeous home and table pieces from Mackenzie Childs, Michael Arum, and Le Creuset. It's perfect for the moms who love making things feel special, even on a random weeknight.

[Lauren]

And the best part is it doesn't even have to stop at your actual mom. There are so many women who want to celebrate mothers in law, grandmas, aunts, sisters, friends who are moms. Hello. Even your favorite friend who's a Dog mom has a fur baby.

[Chandler]

That's what I love about Macy's. It makes it easy to find something that actually fits the person instead of giving everyone the same generic gift.

[Lauren]

And if you're totally stumped, their online gift guide is actually very helpful. It narrows things down so you're not aimlessly scrolling for three hours.

[Chandler]

Look, I'll be honest. I really need some gentle guidance every now and then. Otherwise, you know, I like to spiral.

[Lauren]

Oh, I'm the same way. So if Mother's Day is creeping up on you like it is on us,

[Chandler]

this is your friendly little nudge to get ahead of it. Before you're stress ordering something with questionable

[Lauren]

shipping, head to Macy's and check out their Mother's Day gift guide. Whether you're shopping for your mom, your mother in law, your grandma, or any other amazing woman in your life, they've got thoughtful ideas that actually feel like her.

[Chandler]

You'll feel way less stressed and way more like the thoughtful daughter, granddaughter, or friend you are.

[Lauren]

Shop now in stores or online@macy's.com. okay, let's get into the new developments in the tell by Amy Griffin and essentially what is being alleged in a new lawsuit against her. So if everyone remembers, we talked about how the New York Times had an article that really cast a lot of questions on the TELL by Amy Griffin and basically, you know, said that her experiences couldn't really be backed up by any other people who suffered at the hands of this alleged perpetrator. And the New York Times basically went out on a limb and kind of tried to fact check her memoir and did a whole article casting a lot of doubt. Yeah, and we talked about that and we kind of got in trouble from a few people. You know, there's definitely a culture where it's like you're not allowed to question and you need to just believe women.

[Chandler]

So for those of you who are not familiar with this story, Amy Griffin's book uncovers and goes into, you know, her life and this horribly traumatic sexual violence that happened, you know, against her when she was 12, I want to say, or you know, when she was very young in middle school and this, all of these memories were uncovered or recovered through MDMA therapy. And the whole reason why the New York Times started investigating her is because they received a tip that was like, hey, Amy Griffin's husband is actually an investor in a company that is trying to get MDMA therapy, like legalized. So there's a little bit of a, you know, there's an interesting conflict of interest, conflict of Interest, you know, and some motives here. And so, anyway, so when they started to dig into that, that is when they uncovered, you know, this person, Claudia, this person who still remained anonymous. And so that this is how all of this, like, came to light.

[Lauren]

Claudia basically says she's very unnerved by how similar her experiences of sexual assault when she was in middle school are to what Amy says in the book. Well, this person has now sued Amy. Has sued Amy Griffin. This was not in the New York Times article. This is a new development. There's a lawsuit against Amy Griffin. And what this person says is that she received calls from people saying that they were like, talent scouts, and they asked her for her life story, and they wanted to know all about these sexual assaults she endured, and they asked for all the details, and they did all these interviews with her, and they told her that she could sign, you know, she should sell the rights to her story for a film or for a book. And I guess she talks to a therapist about it, and the therapist says, you should do some due diligence on who these people are. So she had a lot of, you know, a lot of calls with these people, sharing everything she went through. And I guess on her next call with them, she says, you know, I looked you up, and I don't actually see anything you've done before. And they got upset with her and hung up. Well, lo and behold, a few years later, Amy Griffin's book comes out, and this woman is alleging that she believes that Amy Griffin had a private investigator actually interview her. And then these stories were regurgitated in Amy Griffin's book.

[Chandler]

Disguised as a talent scout.

[Lauren]

Yeah, disguised as a talent scout. And then these stories just made their way actually into Amy Griffin's memoir. So Amy Griffin, basically, according to this woman, sent these private investigators to her house. This is according to the lawsuit. And then she ended up telling these stories in her memoir, and she feels that those things happened to her due to the MDMA therapy she talks about in the book.

[Chandler]

One thing I saw about this Claudia person, you know, that's a pseudonym. We don't know who she really is. Is that she. I guess it's just like a normal person who works in healthcare who works, like, you know, an hourly job, and

[Lauren]

she makes apparently 21 an hour as an Alzheimer's caregiver.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

And so caregiver to people with Alzheimer's.

[Chandler]

When these people approach her and say, we would like to give you this lump sum, or, you know, we'd like to buy the rights to your life Story off of you. It's like they're preying upon her because they. It's just. It's so. It's so deplorable to have, you know, like the most explicit, horrific moment of your life stolen from you. It's just. It's beyond.

[Lauren]

It is so horrifically wrong. Yeah. The New York Times basically says while Amy Griffin was at Lauren and Jeff Bezos wedding, this woman was working for $21 an hour as a caregiver to a person with Alzheimer's. So why don't you just pay this person for their story? So obviously, we don't actually know what happened. And I'm sure there are people who will think that this is a cash grab, but I just consider. How much is a person who makes $21 an hour trying to sue a billionaire like that, to me seems like a fool's errand.

[Chandler]

I'm sorry. The coincidences are just. It's too many weird things in the story. Too many weird things. These people approaching her about wanting to get all of these details, who then disappear. It's just. It's too weird. And I think that, you know, my commentary is just that Amy Griffin thought she could kind of prey upon this person who would never figure it out or find out, you know, because she's just like this, like, layperson, you know, and just didn't think. Didn't think it would ever come back to bite her. It's crazy. To me.

[Lauren]

It is absolutely horrific. And again, I just go back to, if you're so rich and you really want this acclaimed, I don't know how this would work, but just pay someone for their story. Or maybe she just would never agree to it, so it couldn't have gone down like that.

[Chandler]

Or write a novel. Write a novel. Right.

[Lauren]

A novel based on it.

[Chandler]

But the really, like, psycho part of it is that she wanted to be the one who had had this experience and that she needed, you know, allegedly, and. And then. Okay, one. One last thing. You know, so much of this is on the publishing house. Why didn't they fact check? I mean, this book is out. Why was there not more due diligence here on their end?

[Lauren]

I guess they don't fact check memoirs or nonfiction. They say publishing houses aren't. No, I guess not. I think that, like, yeah, the New York Times will fact check things, but if you're a Penguin Random House, you're not fact checking people's memoirs that. That you're publishing.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Wow. I didn't know that. That's crazy.

[Lauren]

So anyway, this is a very, very sad story for this person. And we'll see how this lawsuit plays out.

[Chandler]

Yeah, we'll see how this plays out. I guess it's been kind of tricky to figure out, like, what do you sue this person for?

[Lauren]

It's not defamation.

[Chandler]

It's not defamation, exactly.

[Lauren]

Well, we will see how this proceeds. Okay, let's talk about Charlize Theron, because she has given an interview, and she's talked about this harrowing childhood story that none of us knew occurred.

[Chandler]

I mean, I actually think people did know you, and I did.

[Lauren]

Oh, really?

[Chandler]

Yeah. Because I was asking friends of ours, I was like, did you know this? And they were like, yeah, we knew that. But she is. So she's interviewed by the New York Times. They do, like, their Sunday, you know, the interview series, and. Which I quite enjoy. And she. She talks about how. So she grew up in South Africa, and she grew up with a father who was an alcoholic who was, you know, very scary. And she says, you know, she didn't realize at the time, but, like, her mother would take her to the movies a lot, and that was to just, like, get her out of the house. And there was one night when they came back from the movies, and, like, the dad had taken the keys to the house or something, so they went to go to the dad. The dad was at the uncle's house. So they went to the uncle's house, and when Charlize got there, she really had to go to the bathroom. And so she kind of, like, ran past her dad and her uncle to the bathroom. And this, like, totally, totally set her dad off. And he was just like, who do you think you are? She's 15, you know, you have no respect, blah, blah, blah. And he's just irate. So upset. And so her and her mom leave, and she says to her mom, you know, just tell him I'm asleep when he gets home. Like, I don't. Please tell him I'm asleep. I don't want to deal with this. And he gets home, and he's just on a rampage. And I'm trying to remember. Like, he basically comes after them, and he has a gun, and all of the doors in their house are steel, I guess. And her mom literally runs into her room to, like, protect her. And they're both holding the door closed with their bodies, trying to. They don't have locks. And he shoots through the door. He shoots. You know, thank God none of the bullets hit them. But her mom had also grabbed her own gun. And her mom, you know, Shoots back at her dad and kills him.

[Lauren]

I think it's just the bullet ricocheted like seven times before it hit her dad in the head, I believe. It's a very unbelievable story.

[Chandler]

It is an unbelievable story that sounds like. I mean, can you imagine anything scarier than being in a gunfight with your father who's shooting? It's just. It's beyond. It's beyond.

[Lauren]

I think the part of it that is the most disturbing. And Charlize definitely tries to highlight this and make this a point about how sadly, like this story, it sounds so horrible, but situations like this are all too common. And really what she says is like, you know, her dad was a drunk and he was. He was like. He would drive erratically and he would be scary, but he wasn't crazy violent until this incident or out of control until this incident. And I think that's one of the scariest things to kind of hear about, you know, how a situation that can feel like maybe it's pretty bad, but it's not. It's not this bad. Can kind of in a, you know, in one night, can actually take a turn and can escalate to this degree. And she makes a point to really say that this is just way more common than what people realize.

[Chandler]

Oh, 100%.

[Lauren]

Especially when. When alcohol is involved.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I mean, it's just. I was really taken with her bravery and sharing this and just like. I mean, I'm sure she's had to do a lot of work to process this experience, but, you know, just. Just her ability to lead a normal life to some degree and to be okay after something that's traumatizing happens. I don't know if you. Did you see the movie Monster that she won, like the osc.

[Lauren]

I didn't see the movie. No.

[Chandler]

No, I haven't seen it either. But something interesting about it is that she plays like the. One of the first female serial killers in it. And the story there is very fascinating because it's about this woman named Aileen Wuornos, who was an American serial killer, and she murdered several men in Florida. And I guess she was like a sex worker and she'd had a really, like, troubled early life.

[Lauren]

So it's based off a true story?

[Chandler]

Yes, yes. Anyway, I don't. I don't need to go into the full thing, but she. She claims that she killed the men in self defense because I think she was like, at one point she was assaulted by her john and she was convicted and sentenced to death. And she was, you know, executed in 2022. But Charlotte, this is like, one of Charlize's first big roles, and she wins the Oscar for it, and her mom is there when she's winning it. It's just the peril, the parallels there. It's not the same situation, obviously. Obviously. But it is like drawing upon her own life experiences. To play this character is just crazy to me. And to have that be, like, one of your first big acting gigs. I'm so happy she won the Oscar for it. She deserves it.

[Lauren]

Yeah, absolutely. No, that is. That is such an interesting parallel. She talks about how she really, you know, once this happened, she didn't want it to be the most interesting thing about her to other people, and she didn't want it to be her identity. So she essentially. She tells people for a long time, you know, not people that she lives around, but when she leaves South Africa, she tells people that her dad died in a car crash because she just didn't want this to be the story, which I also really understood. Right. Because this is such a. It's such a headline. It's such a major thing to have happened to you, and you can. You could understand how this would basically just follow you everywhere.

[Chandler]

Yes. It would be like, you know, the defining story of your life. Mm.

[Lauren]

Exactly. Now she's had this whole career, she's Charlize Theron, and this is actually more of like, oh, interesting, horrible fact about Charlize Theron. And she's sharing it to shed light on domestic violence. Right. You know, no floral outfit included. So anyway, bad joke.

[Chandler]

Bad joke. But, man, I saw. I saw one clip recently that just came up about. With. With one of her outfits. And anyway, talking about Blake Lively, everybody. But I will. I will digress. I will not go back into Blake Lively psychosis. I'm trying to keep, you know, the amount of psychosis that I'm under, you know, to a minimum. Speaking of which, okay. Apparently the Summer House episode that's going to air tonight that comes out today. Yeah. Is just what everyone's just like, gird your loins is what the talk of shame said.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay, so they are recutting. They're cutting Summer House now. So it's not a situation where the season was done by the time the scandal came out. So I'm 100% sure that the editors went back and combed through all the footage for as much Amanda west stuff that they could put together. So this will be very, very juicy.

[Chandler]

Well, and I think it's actually. I think my hunch and from what I've. From the promos that I've seen, I think it's actually more about Sierra and West, and they have, like, moments together. They have, like, some rekindling and some, like. I mean, there's a. There's a promo where Sierra's literally crying or she's like, you know how, like, I miss you is basically what she says. And it's just. It's a very vulnerable, raw episode between the two of them talking about, like, their relationship. So it's just.

[Lauren]

This is so bad for Amanda.

[Chandler]

I heard Andy say something about. About it. Oh, also, west has a podcast, and he. He discussed it. Do you want me to play it? Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So really quick, what do you think about them debuting basically themselves on a date at that.

[Chandler]

The Yankees game? I think it's. I think they are sports game. That's, like, the same day that Sierra's Glamour article came out. It's like, they can't not. They can't not. They. They need to have the attention. It is. It sickens me.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. And it's just. It's like, give it six months. Give it six months. Maybe Amanda knows by then it'll be over, though.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, and then there's everyone who's, like, slowed down the footage or they think she says, like, act like you like me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Lauren]

At the Yankees game.

[Chandler]

At the Yankees game.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. No, I didn't see that.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

I'm not following this as closely as Chandler. Chandler's doing.

[Chandler]

You're not in psychosis. Okay, let me. Let me play this clip from West.

[Ad]

Actually, one thing I would like to be very clear about. There was no overlap. Like, I. I know there's a thousand different theories on the Internet right now, but that is one thing that for sure did not happen. Everyone was single, like I said earlier.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Ad]

So then we realized things are maybe a little bit serious in February, and that's when this all started. And there's not a whole lot more to it than that.

[Chandler]

One question. Have you, like, talked to any other, like, castmate, or is it just kind of like everyone's doing their own thing right now? Yeah.

[Ad]

I've sent some texts. Haven't gotten responses from everybody yet, which is to be expected. And I. I get it, but that's the hardest part, I think, with this whole situation is, you know, my actions have hurt people that I care about. But the reunion's coming up, and I can give those apologies face to face. And Also clear up all of the crazy shit that's been on the Internet.

[Chandler]

So he says there is no overlap and that things started to get serious in February and that's really all there is to it. It's nothing more than that.

[Lauren]

Yeah, you know, nothing to see her folks. Nothing to see here. It's like it doesn't matter if there was overlap. Doesn't matter.

[Chandler]

It doesn't matter is like it's kind of the.

[Lauren]

It's your best friend's ex who she's still caught up on. Does it matter if they're actively hooking up or not?

[Chandler]

And you lied. So if it doesn't matter if there was no overlap, you still lied. There was still lying happening and like. And secrets and, you know. Yeah, there was still full on lying that happened. So it doesn't matter that, you know, you didn't lie three months ago, but you start. You lied three months. You know, you started lying in January or whatever. It's just. Yeah, it's bullshit. And I'm glad that people haven't responded to him. I'm glad that the cast is like standing with Sierra.

[Lauren]

Absolutely. One thing of interesting note, not my Delta journey, because that story is still boring, but Chandler, I. I did sit next to. Not sit next to, but I was at a very small dinner where I looked up and guess who I was dining with who this weekend? Irina Shayk.

[Chandler]

Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh.

[Lauren]

How was this on the group thread?

[Chandler]

I read it on the group thread, but I was. I was caught up in something else. I was in. I was in summer house psychosis, probably or something. Something.

[Lauren]

Anyway, it was just so wild. So I went to this restaurant that has like a nine person seating. It's very tiny. It was this tasting menu thing I did with Kagan. And so literally I just look up, though, and right. Sitting next to. To Kagan, like on the other side of Kagan is Arena shake. It was very crazy. It was a very fun New York moment.

[Chandler]

No, that's so fun.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Anyway, not. She's coming on the show now.

[Chandler]

Good. Actually, I had two. I had two celebrity moments last week. I saw Ed Sheeran.

[Lauren]

Okay, well, is that a one up?

[Chandler]

I know I don't. And I. This is what the problem is. Like, I feel like every time I say that, it feels. I feel lamer than before I said it. But it was like, it was such a. It was such an. In the wild. Like he was literally on the sideline. No, but. No, then I have another one, you know. Well, this isn't A one up. But just like, I had two celebrity moments last week myself. I sat next to Kieran Culkin from Succession.

[Lauren]

Nice.

[Chandler]

So I, we get on the train. Ben and I are getting on the train. We have, like a long train journey ahead of us.

[Lauren]

That's a fun one.

[Chandler]

And, and I've seen him before. I've seen him in Central Park. He lived on the Upper west side. But anyway, we get on the train and Ben, like, is like, looks at me and then like, motions for me to look at his phone. And he's like, you know, Culkin brother or whatever. And he. We're sitting. I literally, I'm sitting next to him for 20 minutes on the train. And it was crazy. And I just didn't look at him. I feel like I play it pretty cool in those situations, but he was just keeping a very low profile. And the guy across from me had no chill. He kept looking at him and you could tell. And like, he kept, like, pulling down his ball cap and everything. Really, it was fun. It was very cool.

[Lauren]

Like we were people.

[Chandler]

I know, but it's also like, you know, you're taking the train. What do you expect?

[Lauren]

Yeah, what do you expect? You're on a huge hit HBO show. I did not accost Irina. I played it chill as well. I just said loudly how, you know, as the host, a pop apologist. Co host of pop apologists. I really hope that I don't get recognized tonight. I just need a night tip at least. Relax, decompress. No, I, I, I played a very chill as well.

[Chandler]

It was just.

[Lauren]

It's fun to be in our proximity. It's fun to. Fun to see all these people in the wild. I will say it's a perk of New York City.

[Chandler]

It makes you feel alive. Like the back of the. Your hair is on your neck. I don't know. You know what I'm talking about. Like, it's just like electrifying.

[Lauren]

It really is. All right, you guys. Well, we love you so much. Thank you for listening. Sean, do you have anything to say?

[Chandler]

No, just love our listeners and we'll be back on Friday.

[Lauren]

Bye Bye.

[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

Sorry.

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