The Invite

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour (NPR)

Episode: The Invite
Date: July 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a lively, insightful conversation about The Invite, a sharp new comedy directed by Olivia Wilde (who also stars) from a screenplay by Rashida Jones and Will McCormick, adapted from the Spanish film Sentimental. The hosts—Linda Holmes, Aisha Harris, and guest Sariah Nadia McDonald—discuss the film’s examination of complicated marriages, comedic dynamics, standout performances, and modern relationship tropes, specifically as they play out in the setting of a tense dinner party. The conversation is engaging, mixing critical analysis, personal reactions, and playful banter about the film’s success in blending comedy and drama.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Film Premise and Comparisons

• The Setup: Joe (Seth Rogen) and Angela (Olivia Wilde), a married couple with marital tensions, host their neighbors Pina (Penelope Cruz) and Hawk (Edward Norton) for dinner; chaos, vulnerability, and frank discussions about sex and marriage ensue.
• Comparison to Classic Films:
  • Aisha draws parallels with Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and Shiva Baby, noting the claustrophobic, kinetic energy and intense focus on messy relationships.
  • Memorable Quote (Aisha, 02:20):

    “My hot take is that the alternate title for this movie could have been Who’s Afraid of The Invite, Baby?... it’s very claustrophobic... and the energy is there.”

Performances and Direction

• The cast’s comedic and dramatic range is widely praised.
• Edward Norton: Notably steps into an unusual, broadly comic role.
  • Sariah:

    “I’m really happy to see Edward Norton in a comic role just making a fool of himself.” (03:41)

• Penelope Cruz: Avoids stereotype, offering depth beyond the “sexy neighbor.”
  • Linda:

    “You do understand her a lot better than that. And I think you understand her to be a richer character than that.” (12:19)

• Olivia Wilde (as Angela): A highlight, her character subverts easy labels.
  • Linda:

    “I think this is my favorite Olivia Wilde performance. As this woman who ... at a bunch of places in this film, I had no idea where she was gonna go next.” (12:58)

• Seth Rogen: Plays against type as a meaner, more complex character.
  • Sariah:

    “How much humanity and insight is packed into this man and the things that he’s dealing with.” (19:16)

  • Aisha:

    “This might be the meanest I’ve ever seen him play a character.” (19:35)

Visual and Stylistic Craft

• Direction:
  • Wilde’s use of space, visual frames, and racking focus keeps the energy tight and the mood tense.
  • Sariah appreciates Olivia Wilde’s growth since Don’t Worry Darling, noting attention to detail in constrained space.
  • Memorable Quote (Sariah, 09:41):

    “She just makes a meal of that space.”

• Cinematic Touches:
  • Linda notes the intentional shot composition—using frames, doorways, and movement through space.

    “It’s shot to make it feel like a space where you’re constantly running into walls and doors... a lot of thought went into that.” (06:25)

  • Comedic timing is enhanced by both camera focus and score (composed by Dev Hynes).

    “There is a joke in this movie that is 95% a scoring joke.” (06:25)

  • Aisha:

    “One of the neat little things is the way she uses racking of focus… it adds a comedic beat, but they’re also dramatic.” (10:20)

Themes: Messy Marriages and Modern Relationships

• The film explores tension between monogamy and polyamory without judgment.
  • Linda:

    “There’s really not any sort of pointing and giggling at being poly… just, what do you want to do or don’t want to do?” (20:11)

• Both couples—one more open and ‘chaotic,’ one seemingly vanilla—reveal layers as the night progresses.
• Aisha and Sariah debate the believability of a Bay Area couple finding group sex so foreign, but agree that constraints of character and the script’s focus keep it feeling authentic enough (14:25–15:41).

Character and World-Building

• Small details, like Pina and Hawk’s spontaneous Spanish conversations, give authenticity.
  • Quote (Aisha, 12:02):

    “They’ll go into their own world where they’re both speaking in Spanish… all these little touches are really, really just again, character building, world building.”

• The apartment is described as both luscious and grim, reflecting the couple’s state.
  • Linda:

    “It’s luscious, but it also is kind of grim.” (16:06)

• Costume choices and production design reinforce character psychology—subtle colors, traditional furnishings, an undercurrent of worn-in sentimentality.

Critiques & Quibbles

• Realism of details:
  • In a modern Bay Area setting, would a couple really be so naive about poly culture?
  • Lapses in dinner party etiquette (not asking for dietary restrictions) serve narrative tension but stretch believability—a frequent topic in the hosts’ discussion.
    • Quote (Aisha, 16:55):

      “My other big sticking point was like, how do you not ask your guests are they a vegetarian or not? That is basic hosting 101.”

Noteworthy Production Details

• Esther Perel—renowned relationship expert—consulted, but film avoids feeling like a therapy session or lecture (17:53–18:05).
• Unanimous praise for Dev Hynes’ score and Olivia Wilde’s use of visual space.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the mood of the film:

  “It’s stressful, but also, I enjoyed it a lot.”
  —Aisha Harris (02:20)

• On Olivia Wilde’s evolution as a director:

  “You have all these constraints ... and she just makes a meal of that space.”
  —Sariah Nadia McDonald (09:41)

• On the authenticity of the relationships:

  “...you come away from this film really understanding the dynamics of both of these relationships.”
  —Aisha Harris (10:33)

• On Penelope Cruz’s role:

  “You understand her to be a richer character than that.”
  —Linda Holmes (12:19)

• On the film’s treatment of polyamory:

  “There’s really not any sort of pointing and giggling at being poly as something that is ... weird or wrong.”
  —Linda Holmes (20:12)

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Key Timestamps

• [00:23] Opening premise/setup of The Invite
• [02:20] Initial impressions; energy compared to classic relationship dramas
• [03:41] Edward Norton’s comic turn and messy relationships highlighted
• [06:25] Praise for comedic and visual storytelling; Olivia Wilde’s touch
• [09:41] Olivia Wilde’s use of space and reference to previous works
• [10:20] Analysis of camera work, racking focus, and characterization
• [12:19–12:58] Discussion of cruise as Pina and Wilde’s performance
• [14:25–15:41] Debate about the characters’ believability amid Bay Area culture
• [16:06] Apartment design as metaphor
• [17:53–18:05] Esther Perel as consultant and the film’s approach to therapy tropes
• [19:16–19:40] Seth Rogen’s performance praised for its range
• [20:11] The film’s nonjudgmental stance on polyamorous relationships
• [20:39] Final recommendations—see it in the theater!

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Conclusion & Recommendations

The hosts give The Invite a warm recommendation, praising its rich characterizations, impressive direction, and sharp, sometimes uncomfortable, humor. They single out the film’s thoughtful exploration of vulnerability within relationships, its sophisticated weaving of comic and dramatic beats, and nuanced depiction of both monogamy and polyamory. The consensus: see it, ideally in a theater to appreciate its cinematic craft.

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Contributors: Linda Holmes, Aisha Harris, Sariah Nadia McDonald
Production Team: Hafsa Fathoma, Liz Metzger, Mike Katzeff; Editor Jessica Reedy

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For deeper dives, movie lists, and recommendations, the hosts suggest subscribing to the Pop Culture Happy Hour newsletter.

Transcript

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[Linda Holmes]

Marriage is complicated. It's messy. It's difficult. And sometimes it all blows up just because you want to have a nice dinner party with the neighbors.

[Aisha Harris]

That's the premise of the Invite, a very good new comedy directed by Olivia Wilde. Wilde also stars alongside Seth Rogen, Penelope Cruz, and Edward Norton. And this is a heck of a dinner party full of frank talk about sex and its complications. I'm Aisha Harris.

[Linda Holmes]

And I'm Linda Holmes. And joining US Today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is Sariah Nadia McDonald. She's a cultural critic and journalist. Hello, Sariah, and welcome back.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Hello. Glad to be here, as always.

[Linda Holmes]

I know. We're so happy to see you. The Invite begins with Joe and Angela, a married couple played by Seth Rogen and Olivia Wilde. They have a daughter, but she's at a sleepover. So Angela invites the neighbors, Peanut and Hawk, over for dinner. They're played by Penelope Cruz and Edward Norton.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

We were at the door before we rang and we could hear you were fighting.

[Linda Holmes]

Oh, we were talk.

[Sponsor/Promo Voice]

We were.

[Announcer]

We were fighting.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

We were fighting.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

Bit of a contentious environment in here, so I understand if that's repellent to you. No hard feelings. You know what I mean.

[Linda Holmes]

Angela wants to get to know them because she just thinks they're interesting. Jo wants to tell them to stop having such loud and enthusiastic sex in the middle of the night. Hawk and Pina turn out to be absolute chaos agents for Joe and Angela, whose marriage is struggling even as Angela's renovating and decorating of their apartment and makes their physical surroundings more beautiful than ever. That sex life that Peanut and Hawk are enjoying does eventually come up as the two couples navigate a long evening of conversation. Wilde directed the film, and the screenplay comes from Rashida Jones and Will McCormick, who adapted a 2020 Spanish film called Sentimental. The Invite is in theaters now. All right, so, Aisha, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of the Invite?

[Aisha Harris]

Well, my hot take is that the alternate title for this movie could have been who's Afraid of the Invite, Baby? Because it's got sort of like plenty of people have already compared this to who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Of course, the Mike Nichols film with Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, and their relationship is confronted by a much younger couple and all of that stuff. But then this also has the sort of kinetic, very stressful energy of Shiva Baby, the film starring Rachel Sennett from a few years ago that is set during a Shiva and is very intense. All that to say, I really like both of those movies, and I like this movie a lot, too. I think that all of these actors are kind of working in a very interesting mode. It's a very claustrophobic film, mostly, except for the very beginning of the film where we have a short montage over the credit sequence. It takes place in this San Francisco apartment, and it feels clustered, and the energy is there. And it does a really good job of showing this progression of relationships and a relationship that we are being sort of dropped into and where it goes and all of the things that happen. And I think everyone here is great. And so if you like either of those movies I've mentioned, I think you're probably gonna appreciate this film. And it's stressful, but also, I enjoyed it a lot.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah. Sariah, how about you? What'd you think?

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

I also enjoyed it for a few reasons. One, as Aisha says, because it just. You cannot help but be reminded of who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Also, like, I'm really happy to see Edward Norton in a comic role just making a fool of himself. And then the other thing I think that's really enjoyable about this is I fully admit that I like movies about people's messy relationships and marriages.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

And this one is particularly messy, but then it's quite thoughtful as well. So as much as we are sort of treated to being an audience to these people's dysfunction and maybe feeling smug about the lack of dysfunction in our own lives, it's almost unexpectedly touching.

[Linda Holmes]

Oh, I think it's quite touching in

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

places, but I think the way that Olivia was directed, the script by Rashida and Will, it works really seamlessly.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

And I also think after, I think, a few years of seeing sort of dysfunctional marriage movies by men, I'm thinking, particularly Noah Baumbach, this one is just kind of a breath of fresh air.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, I really liked this, too. I think, you know, so often when you do get a film that really narrows in on a relationship, I feel like right now, the way that films are in this particular cultural moment, it'll be, let's look intensely at this marriage, and there's a heist. Let's look at this marriage, and there's a dead body. Let's look at this marriage, and one of them's a superhero or a magic wizard or something like that. This is just a dinner party. Right. There is this added element of the sex life that Pina and Hawk have and the fact that eventually, and I think this part is fair to say eventually it comes out that they are into group sex and they're potentially interested in group sex. With Angela and Jo, it's really just about the relationships, both of the relationships. Because, I mean, I think Hawke is a more broadly comic character, as Soraya said, a more broadly comic character than Pina is. He's sort of oafish, I guess I would say. Like, he's very awkward, and he thinks he's very cool. And I think there's a very interesting interplay between Seth Rogen and Edward Norton about who's cool and who feels cool and who thinks he's cool.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

Are you an interior designer or something?

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

What? Oh, thank you. No, no.

[Announcer]

He's a fireman.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Firefighter. We say firefighter.

[Announcer]

You're a firefighter. You're not a fire. You weren't a firefighter.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, he was fire captain.

[Announcer]

You were a fire captain?

[Aisha Harris]

Captain Hawk.

[Announcer]

Captain Hawk.

[Aisha Harris]

No, you weren't.

[Linda Holmes]

I really walked out of this feeling like, I really thought it was funny. I thought a lot of the comedy really worked. But I also really admired how emotionally resonant it felt and how invested I was in the relationship between these people. And also the fact that there is a lot of really good cinematic work. I think that Olivia Wilde makes very intentional use of the spaces and the way the film is shot. There's not only a lot of use of frames and windows and doorways and things like that, but the entire thing is shot to make this really very large apartment feel. Feel very broken up. Almost like a clumsy space, which it isn't really, but it's shot to make it feel like a space where you're constantly running into walls and doors and things like that. And I think a lot of thought went into that. There is a joke in this movie that is 95% a scoring joke. A very funny little bit close to the beginning of the film that's really just about what they did with the score. And I admire those things a lot because it's one thing to say you could put it on as a play, but it's another thing to acknowledge that I think the team that worked on this film found a lot of ways to also use the fact that it's a piece of cinema to advance the story and to create the mood of the piece. Yeah, we've got a lot more to talk about. We'll be right back after this break.

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[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

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[Aisha Harris]

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[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

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[Aisha Harris]

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[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

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[Announcer]

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[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

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[Aisha Harris]

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[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

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If you love what you hear on this podcast, you'll love what we're sending out in our newsletter. It's where you'll find deeper dives into some of the shows and films we covered, plus exclusive links and recommendations from our team that you won't get anywhere else. Stay connected to the culture criticism you trust. Sign [e-mail] popculturenewsletter now back to our conversation about the invite. Sariah, I wanna pick up with you. What are you thinking about?

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

I was gonna say, like so much credit to Dev Hynes with this score that just it almost provides, I think, like that kind of really sort of declarative framing. And I think the other thing I noticed with Olivia's attention to detail and how much you can appreciate that coming from say, like a heavily stylized work that she did, like, don't worry, darling, and then coming to this and seeing her growth as a filmmaker. Right. Because you are, you have sort of all of these constraints that come from the fact that you have like this Limited setting. And she just makes a meal of that space.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, I mean, to that point about the way the space is used, but also the way the camera is used, one of the things I notice, and one of the neat little things that I really grasped onto was the way she uses the racking of focus, where

[Linda Holmes]

I was just gonna say focus also. Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

You'll have one person in the foreground. It's a close up on them, and we're having this intense moment. And then all of a sudden we'll just quickly switch back so that the person in the background is more in focus now. And the tonal shift, it also is all aligned with the score. And those moments, they're a comedic beat, but they're also a very dramatic beat. Like, this is a comedy, but it's also very, very heavily dramatic in many ways. And those little touches just really help keep the pace going. It helps keep the momentum going. And I love those little moments. We learned that Joe, Seth Rogen's character, eventually we learn that this is his family home. He grew up here. He's lived in San Francisco all his life. And I'm so glad they explained that because at first I was like, how are these people? Like, you always wonder, how do people afford these places in San Francisco, which is one of the most expensive cities in this country? And just the way that, again, the script with the visuals really kind of lays out who these characters are. Like, I came away from this film really understanding the dynamics of both of these relationships. And I think my favorite aspect of this was Penelope Cruz here, because her and Edward Norton have so many great moments where like, their banter is like, yeah, we can be really friendly and we're really chill, we're cool, we're hip. And then, like, they'll have these moments where all of a sudden they'll just, like, they'll go into their own world where they're both speaking in Spanish.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Yep.

[Aisha Harris]

And so Angela and Jo don't understand, but it's like all these little touches are really, really just again, character building, world building. And in a tight, like, under two hour movie, it really, really, like, it just feels very masterful in many ways.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Yes, it feels very complete.

[Aisha Harris]

I agree.

[Linda Holmes]

No, I think Penelope Cruz, this role could so easily turn into something of a, like a very sexy woman who sort of wants to invite them into this world of sultry, whatever. And she is very sexy. And she is all those things, you know, by the end of the movie. You do understand her a lot better than that. And I think you Understand her to be a richer character than that. Unlike him, where I felt like by the end, you understand what a shallow person he is in a lot of ways. The Edward Norton character, Hawke. But really, I think this is my favorite Olivia Wilde performance.

[Aisha Harris]

I know that woman. I've known that woman.

[Linda Holmes]

I think she is so good in this. As this woman who I genuinely. At a bunch of places in this film, I had no idea where she was gonna go next, what she was. How she was gonna respond to something that happened that was maybe a little bit transgressive. At least I didn't know how she was gonna respond to things, because they don't set her up to be either a sort of, you know, she's repressed, and all she wants is to just have sex with everybody or as somebody who is, like, a prude. Right. They don't put her in either of those lanes, really. I genuinely didn't know how she was gonna react to things. And there were a couple places where she just reacts with delight to something, and I was like, I don't know that I saw that coming for that character.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. One quibble or one sort of thing that I did kind of have to wrap my head around, and I'm not sure if it still necessarily feels believable to me. It is this idea that, like, once this couple, Hawk and Pina are introduced, the option for. Or the idea of, like, maybe we'd like to have group sex with you, or just like that they themselves have group sex to start off with. I live in the Bay. And the fact that these. This is a couple that lives in the Bay, I found it hard to believe that they would be so unaware of certain things that happen within polyamorous couples, even if they themselves are not practicing it. Especially the Jo. Seth Rogen character who grew up. We know for a fact he grew up in San Francisco.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Right. It felt a little.

[Aisha Harris]

Kind of like maybe if we were in somewhere that's not San Francisco, I could see this being the case. But the efforts to paint them, Jo and Angela, as this, like, very vanilla hetero couple, I felt like it stretched the limb. I was like, I don't know if they would be this, like, I understand them being, like, very surrounded and, like, I love the sort of interactions that they have once they learn that this couple is open in that way. But I also was just like, is this really how someone react, like, who lives in San Francisco? I don't know. I don't know.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Cause, like, you know, like, I think things like. Like, for a really long time. Anything kind of outside of the, like, committed, exclusive, heteronormative, one man, one woman idea of marriage, like, feels very transgressive. Because those sorts of elements, I think are almost. They're coded as like, queer in a way, I think even in San Francisco.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

And you have these two people who live in this very, you know, traditional looking house. Yeah, they are kind of boring, vanilla, straight people. Maybe they don't necessarily want to, but they don't necessarily know, like, where to start.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

And that's something that like Pina like, picks up on in them, like, very clearly. Yeah, yeah. I think the way you see how Olivia's character is, how she uses her costuming to communicate the way that she is sort of like tied to this space. But the color is also, you know, nothing is very bright. It's a little desaturated and kind of worn in.

[Linda Holmes]

This is one of the things I really liked about the apartment is that it's luscious, but it also is kind of grim.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, yes.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

I mean, these are middle aged couples. One of the things that I appreciate about that space is how much it just looks like, oh, this is my friend's parents house. There's this sentimentality to it. I will say, like, the one sticking point I had, like, the one thing that sort of kept coming up in the back of my mind as we're progressing through this film is I'm like, okay, when does this take place? I don't even think you necessarily need a smartphone, but I'm like, if you are having a dinner party and you have no alcohol or like one bottle, I'm like, girl, you can. Can we call delivery?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. I mean, she mentions podcasts multiple times. And so we know it's the present day.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Aisha Harris]

My other big sticking point was like, how do you not ask your guests are they a vegetarian or not? Like, that is like basic hosting 101. But also like, I guess ang is the way Olivia Wilde plays her, it is somewhat believable that she's just like, she's kind of. I don't know, she's just very high strung and is very obsessive about details, and yet she misses the big picture. I think that's like what we get from how she's planned out this entire dinner party. And so because of that little detail, this is where the cringe comes in. This is where the stressfulness comes in, because it's like, I just don't understand how you plan a party and not ask your guests what their dietary Restrictions are.

[Linda Holmes]

I agree with you, but I suspect that any vegetarian would tell you it doesn't always happen, you know?

[Aisha Harris]

Well, also, if you're a vegetarian, you would. I would also think that the peanut character would bring that up, like, on both ends. It's like, you want to tell people, I'm sorry.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

I appreciated that. I saw, like, Esther Perel as a consultant on this film, and yet it is written and performed in such a way that it doesn't feel like we're just sitting through a session at a

[Aisha Harris]

therapist's office, and it doesn't feel like a therapy session. And especially considering that Pina is also a psychotherapist and a sexologist, it made me wonder, you know, yes, this is a movie in which the couple wants to initiate, possibly exploring each other as couples together. But at the end of the day, this is a movie about relationships and a relationship. And I do wonder, you know, how someone who is actually poly or in that world would react to kind of, like, their world sort of being used as the catalyst for, like, this very vanilla couple to find themselves. But I think that Esther Perel involvement and also just again, the peanut character becomes so much more than just that. She is someone who acknowledges Angela as a woman and as someone who she can relate to, whether or not they have the same background. And I think that that is ultimately the fact that all these characters feel human, and we get to that point where we understand what kind of went wrong in both of their relationships. At the end of the day, you can see all the ways it could have gone terribly wrong. And I think it avoids almost every way that it could go terribly wrong.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

I was gonna say even Seth Rogen's character, particularly because we're so used to both seeing him in other films, but also just in his life as a funny stoner. How much humanity and insight is packed into this man and the things that he's dealing with.

[Aisha Harris]

He's very mean here. This might be the meanest I've ever seen him play a character.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

He's got range.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, I agree.

[Linda Holmes]

Well, these people are angry at each other, you know, But I think of all the things you mentioned, the way that it's sort of this poly couple that is maybe the catalyst for a change in the relationship of this monogamous couple. I do think that the movie, out of all the emotions the characters have about things at different times, I don't think there's any point where the movie is really saying these people are poly, and that is weird or wrong, right?

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, no, not at all.

[Linda Holmes]

And I think that's very important. I don't think that's ever really part of the conversation. There's some conversations about is this for you? What might it do or not do for your relationship, what do you want to do or don't want to do? But there's really not any sort of pointing and giggling at being poly as something that is, you know, as I said, weird or wrong. And I think that's important to the way the movie was made.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Linda Holmes]

I think we all liked this one. I think there's a lot about it that's very interesting and I do recommend seeing it in a theater. It looks great. It might not seem like the kind of movie that you would prioritize a theatrical viewing, but I really would recommend it. It's a great looking movie. And that brings us to the end of our show. Soraya, Nadia McDonald, Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here to talk about this movie.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Linda Holmes]

This episode is produced by Hafsa Fathoma, Liz Metzger and Mike Katzeff and it was edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour for from npr, I'm Linda Holmes and we'll see you all next time.

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[Aisha Harris]

President Trump says the ceasefire with Iran

[Announcer]

is over this week on Consider this, a former high ranking US Diplomat shares his on what could happen next.

[Linda Holmes]

The rulers in Tehran clearly believe they

[Aisha Harris]

have a stronger will than the United States.

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I don't think there are any good options. That's this week on Consider this. You can get the full story behind the headlines every afternoon. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Linda Holmes]

On NPR's Wild Card podcast writer Terry

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Tempest Williams on what it means to be a woman with a big voice and big ideas in our culture.

[Sariah Nadia McDonald]

I don't know if we have to prove we're not crazy, but we're always being asked if we are.

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Watch or listen to that wildcard conversation on the NPR app or on YouTube @NPRWildcard.