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[00:00]
A
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[00:15]
B
So before we get to the show and yeah, I'm talking to you with your discerning, highly developed aesthetic taste in podcasts. If Pop Culture Happy Hour has ever helped you win a debate, find a favorite series before everyone else did or pretend that you saw a movie you definitely did not. Now, don't lie. We've. We don't have to be proud of it, but let's be honest with each other. I think we owe each other that much. Do us a favor and leave the show a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It helps more people find us. It helps us make the show better. And thanks. They put Gillian Anderson in a turban. If they did nothing else for cinema, they've given us that.
[00:50]
C
Yes. Yes, they have.
[00:57]
B
The new movie Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is not gonna be for everyone. But for those of us, it is. For it is just the most four that it's possible to imagine. It's a bloody and bewildering indie slasher film that is also a meditation on slasher films and film itself and sexuality and identity and candy. It stars Hannah Einbinder, a queer young filmmaker tapped to reboot a defunct slasher film franchise. She's determined to recruit the actress who played the franchise's original final girl, who now lives a reclusive life at the same camp they filmed the first movie. She's played by Gillian Anderson. That's the setup and much of the plot. But that is not what the movie is about because it is a Jane Schoenbrun film. And Jane Schoenbrun did I Saw the TV Glow and We are all Going to the World's Fair, two films that also have a lot more going on than just the stuff that happens to the characters. I'm Glenn Weldon, and joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is my co host, Ayesha Harris. Hey, Aisha.
[01:59]
C
Hey, Glenn.
[01:59]
B
Also with us is Jordan Crucciola. She's a writer and producer and the host of the podcast Feeling Seen on Maximum Fun. Hey, Jordan.
[02:06]
D
Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
[02:08]
B
So Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is in theaters now. Aisha, what'd you make of it?
[02:12]
C
What a title, man. What a title. This movie. I will say this is the first time I have seen a Jane Schoenbrun project, where I'm like, oh, yes, I'm on board. I latched onto this very tightly right from the opening credit sequence, which is just kind of like this very well done depiction of the evolution of this fake franchise, using museum, like, artifacts from the franchise, chronicling the rise and its fall, the natural sort of cycle for any franchise that has been tapped too frequently, especially horror franchises. So we're seeing a lot of drawing on, obviously, like, your Jason's, your Mike Myers, all those stuff. I love that. And then I also just love the way that this is a film. I mean, Sheon run between all of these films, like, they are very clearly steeped in, I think, in many ways, like, academia. And this film, I think, is the most steeped in academia. Like, seems to be drawing upon decades worth of, like, film theory and gender studies, Richard Dyer, Robin Wood, Laura Mulvey. But also they've specifically cited, you know, Carol J. Clover and Willow Maclay. And yes, that's there. And yet there's a way that Schonbrunn is, like, dramatizing it in a way that I have never quite seen before. It's kind of a satire. But also they're really literalizing what it means to find pleasure and desire out of horror films as a queer person, as a femme person, all those things. And so I was really on board. And plus, the performances here are just really great. So, yeah, it's one of those movies where, like, definitely going to want to rewatch again because there's some muddled metaphors and it's kind of messy. But I like the mess. The mess is a feature to me, not a bug. And so, yeah, I'm a big fan of this.
[04:00]
B
All right. That's gratifying to me, Aisha. Now, Jordan, I don't know. I suspected throughout this film, this is Jordan's jam.
[04:11]
C
I thought the same thing.
[04:12]
D
No, it very much wasn't. And I, too, I have appreciated TV Glow and World's Fair as almost like these sort of exhibition pieces behind glass that I was appreciating from a distance but was not, like, personally accessing them. Just like, ah, yes, very good, very good. As I, like, walk around it and enjoy the craft of it. And this is. It is amazing that, like, for what you're saying about the essays and, like, the citation of theory. Aisha, I have a friend who went to the premiere screening of this and, like, in the Q and A sec was like. Like, raised her hand, was like, I know the essays you were referencing. And Jane was like, I Was like, completely affirmed her in that. It's very cool to watch somebody who was, like, the most deeply in the binding of the most dense film theory class that you took in college, getting the chance to make movies over and over again with, like, a larger audience awareness and bigger stars in them each time and sort of making their own little coterie of stars within them. And I can absolutely say that knowing, like, the predominant people that I know in LA are people in horror, and specifically they are queer people in horror. And the way this movie played out as, like, a fan fiction of how I could imagine their, like, ideal scenario. You mean, I get this archaic franchise that's been run into the ground that I love so much and I get to find the original Final Girl and we're going to go to the original. Like, it was like reading a slash fic from people that I know. Particularly at a point where Hannah Einbinder's character goes about the preservation of the meaning of the film. I was like, I have had this debate with friends of mine. Wow. So as much as something so lofty and outlandish and hyperbolic as this could hit home, somehow this movie extremely hit home for me.
[06:11]
B
There you go. I love this film, too. But I'm coming at it from almost kind of the inverse of Where y' All Are Because I Saw the TV Glow was one of the most unforgettable film experiences of my life. It was shattering in just the best way. It was hyper specific and hyper real and hyper true. This film didn't immediately clock me in the same way that that film did, because it's the way into it. The Chosen Lens is a slasher film, and that's never been a touchstone for me. I mean, I always felt kind of outside of them. Another supposedly communal cultural experience that I felt outside of. But turns out feeling outside of something is Jane Shundbrun's whole deal as a filmmaker.
[06:53]
C
Yes, it is.
[06:55]
B
And this film teaches you how to watch it. Einbinder's character treats films in this kind of intellectual way, the way, say, a film critic might treat film. You know, there's a joke in here about how her first film deconstructed Psycho by telling the story from the point of view of the shower curtain. That is a solid piece of business.
[07:13]
C
Such a great joke.
[07:15]
D
Yeah.
[07:16]
B
And of course, as she goes through life, she slaps labels on things to distance herself from it. She always knows the correct take to have on absolutely everything. So when in this movie they're rewatching the first Camp Miasma film, she cannot keep herself from pointing out that this next bit is transphobic. Now, she's right, but she's there. And the only way she can say that is by standing outside of the work. And what the character learns over the course of this film is that I've
[07:40]
D
been in a movie night with these queer horror friends where that moment happens. It's like, oh, regrettable, regrettable transphobia.
[07:46]
C
Like, I mean, I've been that person.
[07:50]
B
We all have. Listeners have been that person. But the tendency to stand outside and comment is keeping this character from connecting to things in her life, like sex. And if that was not clear enough, the slasher in this movie is called Little Death. And in French, one term for sexual climax is le petit mort, Little Death. So, you know, I mean, she learns to watch herself in the way that as if she's watching a film of her life. It's all there, it's all laid out very clearly, but not too clearly. And that's, I think, the important thing. I mean, so there's allusions to films like Psycho and Sunset Boulevard. They put Gillian Anderson in a turban. If they did nothing else for cinema, they've given us that.
[08:31]
C
Yes, yes, they have.
[08:33]
D
Over heaps of fried chicken.
[08:36]
B
Over heaps of fried chicken. Also a great touch. And there's the obvious allusions to films like Sleepaway Camp and Friday the 13th. But it all becomes like this multi vehicle pileup and things don't line up precisely. And that's what I liked about it. They're messy because I prefer allusion to allegory, because illusion is messy. It's human, it's organic. Allegory is way too clean and robotic and precise. And as soon as you unlock an allegory, you feel like you've figured out a magic trick and there's nothing left. There's like, so Aslan's Jesus. And he's been Jesus this whole time. The whole time. This is messy. It is weird. It's kind of feverish and frenetic. It looks like itself. It looks like only this film. It foregrounds its status as a movie with matt paintings and split diapter shots. It is a film that nobody else could make this movie and that needs to be supported and championed. And we're here supporting and championing this movie.
[09:33]
C
Yeah, the Schoenbrun budget has increased. True, and you can see it, but it doesn't dilute, I think, what they're trying to say. And I think to your point, Glenn, this is a movie that is academic, but it's not prescriptive. We're not getting the pickle dish. And Ethan Frome represents the dissolution of a marriage or whatever. We're not getting that. And I will push back a little bit because I think. Well, not even push back. I think part of the messiness and the sort of illusions you're talking about, Glenn, even in the Hannah Einbinder character, Chris, she starts off, yes, she is kind of that academic, saying everything. Right. But we also do get glimpses that she's tapped in somewhat to her desire. Like, there's a moment where, early on in the film, where she stumbles upon a film reel, like an actual reel of film, and the way she caresses that film and, like, just kind of, like, gives a little. There's just a moment where it's like.
[10:25]
D
Like she's celluloid sexual. She's celluloid sexual.
[10:29]
C
Yes. Yes. And so the way that, you know, Schonbrenne is trying to connect the cinephilia with actual sexual desire, and what that means as a woman, as a queer person, what that means as someone who maybe is hindered or feels stilted by, like, sex in the real world, I think there's so much going on there that it is so interesting and fun to sort of tease through. And then the way that Billy, the Gillian Anderson character, kind of, like, awakens that in her having, like, again, it's the older. I mean, I couldn't help but think of, you know, hacks and the relationship between Jean Smart and Einbinder's character there. But it's a very different dynamic. We're not just tapping into the same. Well, here, yes, there is a clear generational dividend, but also, like, they don't have really an antagonistic relationship. Right. It's a very kind of. I don't know. It's a dance. It's a dance that is sexual, but also educational and also just, like, carnal. And I really like that. It's such a nice touch.
[11:32]
B
Literally carnal. There's lots of blood.
[11:34]
C
Well, yes, flesh and fluids.
[11:37]
D
I want to shout out. Specifically, there's a production designer art director named Matt Hyland, who worked on this film, who has posted images of the optical glass mat that they use for, like, the cabin snowy background scene. And you can find this on his Twitter feed. And it's just. It's such an outstanding little moment where you see, like. Because you watch it and you're like, obviously, this isn't real, but, like, how they do that. This doesn't look like cgi. It doesn't look like it's green screen. And there's something like everything about Jane's work, like each of their three movies is so tactile and so hands on. They haven't had the budget for like cgi and not necessarily they'd want to use it even if they could. The incredible blood spatter, you know, shooting from the body. Like it feels like with Jane Schoenbrun. The most exciting thing that I experience when I'm watching their movies is this sense of someone truly with imagination where, like, I feel like you see people when they get a lot of resources, maybe they run into the limits of sort of like the bounds of their creativity and they ultimately make something that like, while possibly exciting, still hits like the limits of like kind of general humans access to. What would this look like? Like imagining Jane Schoenbrun's big sci fi spectacular ultra budget movie would look like, I imagine something akin to Jodorowsky's Dune and it's just inexplicable lookbook that he had put together. And I feel like the more they get the chance to kind of flex on screen and the more resources they get access to, we actually get to see somebody who has a mind's eye that takes them to like an actual place of like image provocation where you're like, dang, I really don't think someone else was gonna come up with this to put it on screen. It's like an intentional recycling things we have seen in their repackaging while also being something that feels like it is visually fresh to behold and fall into. And that just, it's so cool to see something that feels like someone who is really on a different imagination journey than anyone else.
[13:38]
B
Yeah, well, we've got more to talk about. We'll be right back after this break.
[13:43]
A
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[14:12]
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[15:28]
B
And we're back. I want to take a temperature check on something because I'm not sure I'm being fair. So check me on this. The one thing I kept snagging on in this movie is unfortunately pretty central to the film, which is that Einbinder's character is a queer indie filmmaker in much the same way that Jane Schoenbrunn is a queer indie filmmaker. And anytime the film kind of sidled up to this vibe of and it doesn't happen often, but it happens enough. This vibe of take that Hollywood, I'm an artist, you can't shackle me to your golden cap of commerce. Or whatever I felt like. And again, I don't think I'm being fair. But real talk. I'm sure Jane Schoenbrunn has felt those pressures, but it's Jane Shundbrun. Are the fine folks at Plan B and Mubi really expecting this to be a four quadrant hit? Maybe that's not fair. But I kept thinking, you know, Robert Altman could make the Player because he was in the trenches. He dealt with studio idiots and their notes every day. But is Jane Shonburn getting called into some feature skyscraper in Studio City and given a tiny bottle of water and getting, you know, save the cat notes from Warner's executives? I don't.
[16:35]
D
I don't think so. I don't know the rooms that Jane has pitched in that did not come out with a green light. I mean, when one of my favorite moments of this movie is when we're in a zoom meeting with Hannah and the execs and there's Literally, like, someone who's just like, queer assistant. Like, there's just, like, a box that just says, like, there's just queer assistant, the insert character. And it felt like somebody who had been in this zoom room in so many different permutations that was like, insert. Anybody I know who's ever told me about how a bad zoom meeting went? And I would love to hear the, like, couple glasses of wine conversation at a dinner where Jane talks about the movies that you didn't see with the pitches that didn't go well.
[17:16]
C
Is it weird that I would maybe find that bit more convincing if Jane were a man or, like, not a trans non, binary filmmaker? Because we've seen plenty of indie filmmakers make that giant leap from, you know, indie film to big, giant Jurassic park reboot blockbuster. Like that has happened now. Are they making the type of indie films where, as you already noted, Glenn, it's like Psycho from the perspective of the shower curtain?
[17:42]
B
No.
[17:43]
C
And, you know, World's Fair, their first movie is very much like, to me at least, student film. Very long, very kind of very raw, internal, very raw. And probably could have been a type 45 instead of however long it is, in my opinion. So I'm not sure if that's necessarily believable, but I also think maybe we're doing a disservice if we think. I mean, obviously Sean Brun has talked about these movies being very personal, but I'm sure they have filmmaker friends who might have been in those same rooms who, if they didn't, experience that maybe they're pulling from other people's, you know, experiences and just the general vibe of how Hollywood will try to pluck someone who has the cool vibe, the cool factors, and then try to put them into a box. Like, that's something that I think if you're. I don't know if lucky is the right word, but if you're fortunate enough to have people trying to, like, steal your skis, then, like, I can see that being something that is true to someone's experience if not shown burns one to one.
[18:42]
D
I mean, I could even see it being true for theirs in the sense of, like, because they'll pull anybody out of the indie realm if they've been a hit. To do this with absolutely zero intention of following through, like, we want your thing. And then you start working on the movie, and it's like, your thing within the voice of our very specific parameters of our thing. And so, yeah, they're an exciting new up and coming indie voice. And Chronicle was so cool. And Then, like, the rubber meets the road and they were like, hey, you understand you're working within a big machine and you have a hundred million dollars, someone else's money, right?
[19:13]
C
Yes.
[19:13]
D
So I think they'll pull anybody out and tell them that it's you, it's your vision, it's personal. Yes. Yes. Even if it's. I saw the TV going world's Fair. Because they know when the follow through happens that they're just gonna shove them back into the same set of standards and practices anyway.
[19:27]
B
Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm worried about. Right. That I am putting them in a box and saying, well, you can only do this kind of thing. But those moments in the film felt lighter on their feet, more. Less individual, less Jane Shrimpren. Because it felt like they were grappling with stuff that other filmmakers like them, have grappled with before. And that's not something I associate with a Jane Schoenburn film. Like, those moments felt less visceral, less vulnerable. Maybe that's what I'm reacting to. Less dangerous and risky. Like throughout this film, you're like, oh, they're revealing something. But I don't necessarily wanna. That's very personal.
[20:07]
D
Should I be seeing this right now?
[20:08]
B
Which is something that Sarah Sherman is your agent, and she's Sarah Sherman and she's your agent. Jokes, like, they don't go to that same place. But again, maybe that isn't fair. And the humor in this film was also something I reacted to very well. But I also thought, well, you might go into a film like this, given its premise, and think it's gonna be camp. Ha, ha, camp. Like high frequency, high pitched. But it doesn't come at you fast. It's camp adjacent. But there's not that kind of archness that you get with camp. There's no kind of withering sardonic from 30,000ft cold appraisal. It is all of a piece. It's all mixed in. So the blood is over the top, but the humor is, you know, it's under the tie.
[20:46]
A
It's in the mix.
[20:47]
B
Right. So when the camp counselors are telling the origin story of Little Death, you've got Zack Cherry as one of the counselors. His character says something to the effect of so they drowned her. Because of course, they had to. That's where the jokes are. Like, they're in there. It's part of the vibe of the movie. They don't stand out from it. And we're not invited to. Even though it's satirizing. It's not like, hard satire. It's kind of a. Well, I say this, and then we've got Gillian Anderson doing stoner Blanche dubois. So I don't really know where the human is in this thing. I'm not sure where that. How to fit it in, but you know what I'm saying? It's of a piece.
[21:19]
C
I think that the sharpest or most arch satire comes from those moments where they're looking directly out to the industry. Generally, I see that whole storyline as maybe even less autobiographical than it is. Just like, oh, an observation, perhaps, weariness with the way that these reboots are being churned out and marketed and trying to turn them into, quote, unquote, like, high art, but, like, how that could be a futile exercise. And so I think that's probably, yeah, less biographical and more just. This is the way the industry is now, and it's. It's annoying, but here we're gonna. We're gonna try to. To. To buck against that system in. In ways and oftentimes not pull that off. But. Yeah, I don't know.
[22:04]
D
But to your point of stoner Blanche dubois, Glenn, the performances given in this movie, which you, like, led with Aisha, I mean, wow. It's amazing how this movie really unleashes, like, the canonical queer experience upon either a suspecting or unsuspecting audience. The idea of being awakened and ensorceled by Gillian Anderson, one of the most lesbian things that could happen in all pop culture. And I could not get enough of Gillian Anderson this entire time. It was like, watching. I didn't expect, like, Dolly Parton, reclusive Norma Desmond, Dolly Parton, but, like, which is the route that she goes in this. And she is just smoke crawling through a window this entire time. And Hannah Einbinder is pulling off something so challenging because she's so insufferable. Like, she's like a textbook insufferable individual. And she has to do that, and she has to be likable, and she has to be tiptoeing up to this, like, walking up to the moment where she, like, unleashes sexual inhibition and access of true, like, carnal expression for seemingly the first time in her life. And, like, play it big enough for it to fit the genre trappings but also grounded enough for it to be, like, this is a kind of love story, I guess. And then, like, the very. From 30,000 Foot, like, we're gonna skewer this. Her running, braless, tiny T shirt in her underwear, like, through the slasher scene. These are two performances of such total commitment and, like, love and absurdity. It feels like all three of them just like in Jane's upstate New York manor. Layer outside tent. Where they live, I don't know, among the earth and the song of nature. And just like becoming a hive mind and then coming to set and being like, we are all bought into the exact same movie. And it's an incredibly satisfying experience to have from just a pure performance standpoint, too.
[24:09]
B
Yeah, well, you know, this film, I think we all dug it. And, you know, there's certain films that when it comes time for Thanksgiving and everybody's saying, you know, families together, and you're like, so what should we watch something that everybody's gonna love. This Ain't that a Tom Hanks movie? Yeah, this ain't that. But if it's for you, it is entirely for you, and you will feel so very seen. That brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Cruciola, Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here.
[24:31]
C
Thank you, Glenn.
[24:32]
D
Thank you so much. Five stars.
[24:35]
C
Five stars.
[24:35]
B
Five stars. This episode was produced by Lennon Sherburne. Hufs the Fethim and Mike Katz have been edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. And hello. Come in provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all next time.
[24:52]
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Summary5 min read

Pop Culture Happy Hour: "Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma"

Episode Date: August 17, 2026
Panelists: Glenn Weldon (Host), Aisha Harris (Host), Jordan Crucchiola (Guest: Writer/Producer/Podcaster)

Episode Overview

This episode reviews "Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma," the latest indie slasher film from Jane Schoenbrun. The hosts and guest, Jordan Crucchiola, discuss how the movie transcends traditional genre tropes, offering a hallucinatory, academic, and deeply queer meditation on horror cinema, sexuality, and identity. They examine its unique narrative approach, notable performances, allusions to film theory, and what sets Schoenbrun’s work apart from mainstream cinema.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Plot and Premise (00:56–02:12)

Setup: Hannah Einbinder stars as a queer filmmaker rebooting a fictional, defunct slasher franchise. She seeks out the original "final girl," now reclusive, played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the camp where the first film was shot.
Schoenbrun’s Direction: Glenn compares Schoenbrun’s approach with their previous films "I Saw the TV Glow" and "We’re All Going to the World’s Fair," noting the recurring depth and subtext beyond surface-level plot.

2. The Academic Layer & Meta-Commentary (02:12–04:00; 04:12–06:10)

Aisha Harris appreciates the opening—an origami-like credit sequence chronicling the fake franchise’s history, drawing on real horror franchise timelines.
The film is “deeply steeped in academia,” referencing film theory and gender studies (Richard Dyer, Robin Wood, Laura Mulvey, Carol J. Clover, Willow Maclay).
Quote (Aisha, 02:12):
“This is a film…so clearly steeped in, I think, in many ways, like, academia. And this film…seems to be drawing upon decades worth of film theory and gender studies...but also dramatizing it in a way that I have never quite seen before.”
Despite its theoretical backbone, the movie literalizes pleasure and desire in horror, especially as a queer/femme experience.

3. Personal Resonance within Queer Horror (04:12–06:10)

Jordan reflects on how the film feels like personal "fanfiction" for queer horror fans who long to reclaim problematic, beloved franchises.
Quote (Jordan, 04:12):
“It was like reading a slash fic from people that I know…particularly at a point where Hannah Einbinder’s character goes about the preservation of the meaning of the film. I was like, I have had this debate with friends of mine. Wow.”

4. How the Film Teaches You to Watch It (06:10–08:33)

Glenn: The film guides the viewer to step into its world, much like its protagonist intellectualizes movies.
Notable recurring joke: “Her first film deconstructed Psycho by telling the story from the point of view of the shower curtain.” (07:13)
Characters and viewers both learn to lower their defensive, academic distance and connect emotionally, particularly around themes of sex and queerness.
Quote (Glenn, 07:49):
“The tendency to stand outside and comment is keeping this character from connecting to things in her life, like sex. And if that was not clear enough, the slasher in this movie is called Little Death…”
The film is filled with allusions—to "Psycho," "Sunset Boulevard," "Sleepaway Camp," and "Friday the 13th"—but avoids being clean allegory, embracing messiness and multiplicity.

5. Mix of Desire, Cinephilia, and Generational Tension (09:32–11:32)

Aisha observes the protagonist’s connection to film as both intellectual and sensual.
The dynamic between Einbinder’s and Anderson’s characters blends sexuality, mentorship, and a generational queer lineage.
Memorable Moment (Aisha, 10:25):
“There’s a moment…where she stumbles upon a film reel…and the way she caresses that film…like she’s celluloid sexual.”

6. Visual Style and Production Design (11:37–13:37)

Jordan gives a shoutout to art director Matt Hyland for his inventive analog techniques (e.g., glass matte backgrounds), highlighting Schoenbrun’s tactile, imaginative filmmaking.
The team expresses excitement about what Shoenbrun’s vision could do with bigger budgets (referencing Jodorowsky’s "Dune" as an analogy).

7. Industry Satire and the “Indie vs. Studio” Question (15:27–22:03)

Glenn is unsure if the film’s critique of Hollywood commodifying indie talent is fair, given Schoenbrun’s own career trajectory.
The group debates whether these elements feel autobiographical or are observations on the current system's hunger for “cool” indie voices.
- Quote (Glenn, 15:27):
  “Anytime the film kind of sidled up to this vibe of…take that Hollywood, I’m an artist, you can’t shackle me…is Jane Shundbrun getting called into some feature skyscraper in Studio City…?”
- Jordan’s Response (16:34):
  “I don’t think so. I don’t know the rooms that Jane has pitched in that did not come out with a green light…”
They acknowledge the reality that the system often “plucks” indie filmmakers, offering them creative freedom but forcing them back into restrictive systems.

8. Humor, Satire, and Performance (20:08–24:08)

The film plays with “camp” but is less arch or detached than might be expected; humor is woven organically into the narrative.
Gillian Anderson earns high praise for her “stoner Blanche DuBois” performance, and Hannah Einbinder is noted for her tightrope walk as both insufferable and empathetic protagonist.
Quote (Jordan, 22:03):
“It’s amazing how this movie really unleashes, like, the canonical queer experience upon either a suspecting or unsuspecting audience. The idea of being awakened and ensorceled by Gillian Anderson, one of the most lesbian things that could happen in all pop culture.”
The panel highlights the film as a purely satisfying experience in terms of acting, vision, and tone.

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Academic Layer:
“This is the most steeped in academia…decades worth of film theory and gender studies…” —Aisha Harris, 02:12
On the protagonist’s film geekiness:
“Her first film deconstructed Psycho by telling the story from the point of view of the shower curtain. That is a solid piece of business.” —Glenn Weldon, 07:13
On queerness and horror reclaiming:
“I have had this debate with friends of mine. Wow.” —Jordan Crucchiola, 04:12
Anderson’s performance:
“It was like, watching…I didn’t expect, like, Dolly Parton, reclusive Norma Desmond, Dolly Parton, but, like, which is the route that she goes in this. And she is just smoke crawling through a window this entire time.” —Jordan Crucchiola, 22:03

Timestamps of Key Segments

Plot and Premise — 00:56–02:12
Film as Meta-Academic Exercise — 02:12–04:00; 04:12–06:10
Personal/Queer Resonance — 04:12–06:10
Film’s Teaching Process, Allusions, and Themes — 06:10–08:33
Desire, Generational Tension, and Character Dynamics — 09:32–11:32
Production/Visuals — 11:37–13:37
Industry Satire — 15:27–22:03
Performance and Humor — 20:08–24:08
Panel’s Overall Recommendation — 24:08–End

Host & Guest Recommendations

All panelists praise "Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma" as distinct, messy, deeply felt, and unlike anything else currently in cinemas.
“If it’s for you, it is entirely for you, and you will feel so very seen.” — Glenn Weldon, 24:08
Five stars from panelists.

Final Thoughts

The episode underscores that while "Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma" won't have universal family appeal, it offers a highly specific and powerful experience for those who resonate with its themes, style, and reclamation of horror through a queer, academic, and cinephilic lens.

Summary produced by an expert podcast summarizer. All ad breaks, intros, outros, and non-content have been omitted for clarity.

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Transcript58 lines

[00:00]
A
This message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Carvana makes car buying easy 100% online prices down to the penny, delivered to your door. Why make car buying hard when it could be easy? Visit Carvana.com today. Terms may apply.
[00:15]
B
So before we get to the show and yeah, I'm talking to you with your discerning, highly developed aesthetic taste in podcasts. If Pop Culture Happy Hour has ever helped you win a debate, find a favorite series before everyone else did or pretend that you saw a movie you definitely did not. Now, don't lie. We've. We don't have to be proud of it, but let's be honest with each other. I think we owe each other that much. Do us a favor and leave the show a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It helps more people find us. It helps us make the show better. And thanks. They put Gillian Anderson in a turban. If they did nothing else for cinema, they've given us that.
[00:50]
C
Yes. Yes, they have.
[00:57]
B
The new movie Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is not gonna be for everyone. But for those of us, it is. For it is just the most four that it's possible to imagine. It's a bloody and bewildering indie slasher film that is also a meditation on slasher films and film itself and sexuality and identity and candy. It stars Hannah Einbinder, a queer young filmmaker tapped to reboot a defunct slasher film franchise. She's determined to recruit the actress who played the franchise's original final girl, who now lives a reclusive life at the same camp they filmed the first movie. She's played by Gillian Anderson. That's the setup and much of the plot. But that is not what the movie is about because it is a Jane Schoenbrun film. And Jane Schoenbrun did I Saw the TV Glow and We are all Going to the World's Fair, two films that also have a lot more going on than just the stuff that happens to the characters. I'm Glenn Weldon, and joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is my co host, Ayesha Harris. Hey, Aisha.
[01:59]
C
Hey, Glenn.
[01:59]
B
Also with us is Jordan Crucciola. She's a writer and producer and the host of the podcast Feeling Seen on Maximum Fun. Hey, Jordan.
[02:06]
D
Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
[02:08]
B
So Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is in theaters now. Aisha, what'd you make of it?
[02:12]
C
What a title, man. What a title. This movie. I will say this is the first time I have seen a Jane Schoenbrun project, where I'm like, oh, yes, I'm on board. I latched onto this very tightly right from the opening credit sequence, which is just kind of like this very well done depiction of the evolution of this fake franchise, using museum, like, artifacts from the franchise, chronicling the rise and its fall, the natural sort of cycle for any franchise that has been tapped too frequently, especially horror franchises. So we're seeing a lot of drawing on, obviously, like, your Jason's, your Mike Myers, all those stuff. I love that. And then I also just love the way that this is a film. I mean, Sheon run between all of these films, like, they are very clearly steeped in, I think, in many ways, like, academia. And this film, I think, is the most steeped in academia. Like, seems to be drawing upon decades worth of, like, film theory and gender studies, Richard Dyer, Robin Wood, Laura Mulvey. But also they've specifically cited, you know, Carol J. Clover and Willow Maclay. And yes, that's there. And yet there's a way that Schonbrunn is, like, dramatizing it in a way that I have never quite seen before. It's kind of a satire. But also they're really literalizing what it means to find pleasure and desire out of horror films as a queer person, as a femme person, all those things. And so I was really on board. And plus, the performances here are just really great. So, yeah, it's one of those movies where, like, definitely going to want to rewatch again because there's some muddled metaphors and it's kind of messy. But I like the mess. The mess is a feature to me, not a bug. And so, yeah, I'm a big fan of this.
[04:00]
B
All right. That's gratifying to me, Aisha. Now, Jordan, I don't know. I suspected throughout this film, this is Jordan's jam.
[04:11]
C
I thought the same thing.
[04:12]
D
No, it very much wasn't. And I, too, I have appreciated TV Glow and World's Fair as almost like these sort of exhibition pieces behind glass that I was appreciating from a distance but was not, like, personally accessing them. Just like, ah, yes, very good, very good. As I, like, walk around it and enjoy the craft of it. And this is. It is amazing that, like, for what you're saying about the essays and, like, the citation of theory. Aisha, I have a friend who went to the premiere screening of this and, like, in the Q and A sec was like. Like, raised her hand, was like, I know the essays you were referencing. And Jane was like, I Was like, completely affirmed her in that. It's very cool to watch somebody who was, like, the most deeply in the binding of the most dense film theory class that you took in college, getting the chance to make movies over and over again with, like, a larger audience awareness and bigger stars in them each time and sort of making their own little coterie of stars within them. And I can absolutely say that knowing, like, the predominant people that I know in LA are people in horror, and specifically they are queer people in horror. And the way this movie played out as, like, a fan fiction of how I could imagine their, like, ideal scenario. You mean, I get this archaic franchise that's been run into the ground that I love so much and I get to find the original Final Girl and we're going to go to the original. Like, it was like reading a slash fic from people that I know. Particularly at a point where Hannah Einbinder's character goes about the preservation of the meaning of the film. I was like, I have had this debate with friends of mine. Wow. So as much as something so lofty and outlandish and hyperbolic as this could hit home, somehow this movie extremely hit home for me.
[06:11]
B
There you go. I love this film, too. But I'm coming at it from almost kind of the inverse of Where y' All Are Because I Saw the TV Glow was one of the most unforgettable film experiences of my life. It was shattering in just the best way. It was hyper specific and hyper real and hyper true. This film didn't immediately clock me in the same way that that film did, because it's the way into it. The Chosen Lens is a slasher film, and that's never been a touchstone for me. I mean, I always felt kind of outside of them. Another supposedly communal cultural experience that I felt outside of. But turns out feeling outside of something is Jane Shundbrun's whole deal as a filmmaker.
[06:53]
C
Yes, it is.
[06:55]
B
And this film teaches you how to watch it. Einbinder's character treats films in this kind of intellectual way, the way, say, a film critic might treat film. You know, there's a joke in here about how her first film deconstructed Psycho by telling the story from the point of view of the shower curtain. That is a solid piece of business.
[07:13]
C
Such a great joke.
[07:15]
D
Yeah.
[07:16]
B
And of course, as she goes through life, she slaps labels on things to distance herself from it. She always knows the correct take to have on absolutely everything. So when in this movie they're rewatching the first Camp Miasma film, she cannot keep herself from pointing out that this next bit is transphobic. Now, she's right, but she's there. And the only way she can say that is by standing outside of the work. And what the character learns over the course of this film is that I've
[07:40]
D
been in a movie night with these queer horror friends where that moment happens. It's like, oh, regrettable, regrettable transphobia.
[07:46]
C
Like, I mean, I've been that person.
[07:50]
B
We all have. Listeners have been that person. But the tendency to stand outside and comment is keeping this character from connecting to things in her life, like sex. And if that was not clear enough, the slasher in this movie is called Little Death. And in French, one term for sexual climax is le petit mort, Little Death. So, you know, I mean, she learns to watch herself in the way that as if she's watching a film of her life. It's all there, it's all laid out very clearly, but not too clearly. And that's, I think, the important thing. I mean, so there's allusions to films like Psycho and Sunset Boulevard. They put Gillian Anderson in a turban. If they did nothing else for cinema, they've given us that.
[08:31]
C
Yes, yes, they have.
[08:33]
D
Over heaps of fried chicken.
[08:36]
B
Over heaps of fried chicken. Also a great touch. And there's the obvious allusions to films like Sleepaway Camp and Friday the 13th. But it all becomes like this multi vehicle pileup and things don't line up precisely. And that's what I liked about it. They're messy because I prefer allusion to allegory, because illusion is messy. It's human, it's organic. Allegory is way too clean and robotic and precise. And as soon as you unlock an allegory, you feel like you've figured out a magic trick and there's nothing left. There's like, so Aslan's Jesus. And he's been Jesus this whole time. The whole time. This is messy. It is weird. It's kind of feverish and frenetic. It looks like itself. It looks like only this film. It foregrounds its status as a movie with matt paintings and split diapter shots. It is a film that nobody else could make this movie and that needs to be supported and championed. And we're here supporting and championing this movie.
[09:33]
C
Yeah, the Schoenbrun budget has increased. True, and you can see it, but it doesn't dilute, I think, what they're trying to say. And I think to your point, Glenn, this is a movie that is academic, but it's not prescriptive. We're not getting the pickle dish. And Ethan Frome represents the dissolution of a marriage or whatever. We're not getting that. And I will push back a little bit because I think. Well, not even push back. I think part of the messiness and the sort of illusions you're talking about, Glenn, even in the Hannah Einbinder character, Chris, she starts off, yes, she is kind of that academic, saying everything. Right. But we also do get glimpses that she's tapped in somewhat to her desire. Like, there's a moment where, early on in the film, where she stumbles upon a film reel, like an actual reel of film, and the way she caresses that film and, like, just kind of, like, gives a little. There's just a moment where it's like.
[10:25]
D
Like she's celluloid sexual. She's celluloid sexual.
[10:29]
C
Yes. Yes. And so the way that, you know, Schonbrenne is trying to connect the cinephilia with actual sexual desire, and what that means as a woman, as a queer person, what that means as someone who maybe is hindered or feels stilted by, like, sex in the real world, I think there's so much going on there that it is so interesting and fun to sort of tease through. And then the way that Billy, the Gillian Anderson character, kind of, like, awakens that in her having, like, again, it's the older. I mean, I couldn't help but think of, you know, hacks and the relationship between Jean Smart and Einbinder's character there. But it's a very different dynamic. We're not just tapping into the same. Well, here, yes, there is a clear generational dividend, but also, like, they don't have really an antagonistic relationship. Right. It's a very kind of. I don't know. It's a dance. It's a dance that is sexual, but also educational and also just, like, carnal. And I really like that. It's such a nice touch.
[11:32]
B
Literally carnal. There's lots of blood.
[11:34]
C
Well, yes, flesh and fluids.
[11:37]
D
I want to shout out. Specifically, there's a production designer art director named Matt Hyland, who worked on this film, who has posted images of the optical glass mat that they use for, like, the cabin snowy background scene. And you can find this on his Twitter feed. And it's just. It's such an outstanding little moment where you see, like. Because you watch it and you're like, obviously, this isn't real, but, like, how they do that. This doesn't look like cgi. It doesn't look like it's green screen. And there's something like everything about Jane's work, like each of their three movies is so tactile and so hands on. They haven't had the budget for like cgi and not necessarily they'd want to use it even if they could. The incredible blood spatter, you know, shooting from the body. Like it feels like with Jane Schoenbrun. The most exciting thing that I experience when I'm watching their movies is this sense of someone truly with imagination where, like, I feel like you see people when they get a lot of resources, maybe they run into the limits of sort of like the bounds of their creativity and they ultimately make something that like, while possibly exciting, still hits like the limits of like kind of general humans access to. What would this look like? Like imagining Jane Schoenbrun's big sci fi spectacular ultra budget movie would look like, I imagine something akin to Jodorowsky's Dune and it's just inexplicable lookbook that he had put together. And I feel like the more they get the chance to kind of flex on screen and the more resources they get access to, we actually get to see somebody who has a mind's eye that takes them to like an actual place of like image provocation where you're like, dang, I really don't think someone else was gonna come up with this to put it on screen. It's like an intentional recycling things we have seen in their repackaging while also being something that feels like it is visually fresh to behold and fall into. And that just, it's so cool to see something that feels like someone who is really on a different imagination journey than anyone else.
[13:38]
B
Yeah, well, we've got more to talk about. We'll be right back after this break.
[13:43]
A
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[14:12]
E
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A
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[14:57]
E
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[15:28]
B
And we're back. I want to take a temperature check on something because I'm not sure I'm being fair. So check me on this. The one thing I kept snagging on in this movie is unfortunately pretty central to the film, which is that Einbinder's character is a queer indie filmmaker in much the same way that Jane Schoenbrunn is a queer indie filmmaker. And anytime the film kind of sidled up to this vibe of and it doesn't happen often, but it happens enough. This vibe of take that Hollywood, I'm an artist, you can't shackle me to your golden cap of commerce. Or whatever I felt like. And again, I don't think I'm being fair. But real talk. I'm sure Jane Schoenbrunn has felt those pressures, but it's Jane Shundbrun. Are the fine folks at Plan B and Mubi really expecting this to be a four quadrant hit? Maybe that's not fair. But I kept thinking, you know, Robert Altman could make the Player because he was in the trenches. He dealt with studio idiots and their notes every day. But is Jane Shonburn getting called into some feature skyscraper in Studio City and given a tiny bottle of water and getting, you know, save the cat notes from Warner's executives? I don't.
[16:35]
D
I don't think so. I don't know the rooms that Jane has pitched in that did not come out with a green light. I mean, when one of my favorite moments of this movie is when we're in a zoom meeting with Hannah and the execs and there's Literally, like, someone who's just like, queer assistant. Like, there's just, like, a box that just says, like, there's just queer assistant, the insert character. And it felt like somebody who had been in this zoom room in so many different permutations that was like, insert. Anybody I know who's ever told me about how a bad zoom meeting went? And I would love to hear the, like, couple glasses of wine conversation at a dinner where Jane talks about the movies that you didn't see with the pitches that didn't go well.
[17:16]
C
Is it weird that I would maybe find that bit more convincing if Jane were a man or, like, not a trans non, binary filmmaker? Because we've seen plenty of indie filmmakers make that giant leap from, you know, indie film to big, giant Jurassic park reboot blockbuster. Like that has happened now. Are they making the type of indie films where, as you already noted, Glenn, it's like Psycho from the perspective of the shower curtain?
[17:42]
B
No.
[17:43]
C
And, you know, World's Fair, their first movie is very much like, to me at least, student film. Very long, very kind of very raw, internal, very raw. And probably could have been a type 45 instead of however long it is, in my opinion. So I'm not sure if that's necessarily believable, but I also think maybe we're doing a disservice if we think. I mean, obviously Sean Brun has talked about these movies being very personal, but I'm sure they have filmmaker friends who might have been in those same rooms who, if they didn't, experience that maybe they're pulling from other people's, you know, experiences and just the general vibe of how Hollywood will try to pluck someone who has the cool vibe, the cool factors, and then try to put them into a box. Like, that's something that I think if you're. I don't know if lucky is the right word, but if you're fortunate enough to have people trying to, like, steal your skis, then, like, I can see that being something that is true to someone's experience if not shown burns one to one.
[18:42]
D
I mean, I could even see it being true for theirs in the sense of, like, because they'll pull anybody out of the indie realm if they've been a hit. To do this with absolutely zero intention of following through, like, we want your thing. And then you start working on the movie, and it's like, your thing within the voice of our very specific parameters of our thing. And so, yeah, they're an exciting new up and coming indie voice. And Chronicle was so cool. And Then, like, the rubber meets the road and they were like, hey, you understand you're working within a big machine and you have a hundred million dollars, someone else's money, right?
[19:13]
C
Yes.
[19:13]
D
So I think they'll pull anybody out and tell them that it's you, it's your vision, it's personal. Yes. Yes. Even if it's. I saw the TV going world's Fair. Because they know when the follow through happens that they're just gonna shove them back into the same set of standards and practices anyway.
[19:27]
B
Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm worried about. Right. That I am putting them in a box and saying, well, you can only do this kind of thing. But those moments in the film felt lighter on their feet, more. Less individual, less Jane Shrimpren. Because it felt like they were grappling with stuff that other filmmakers like them, have grappled with before. And that's not something I associate with a Jane Schoenburn film. Like, those moments felt less visceral, less vulnerable. Maybe that's what I'm reacting to. Less dangerous and risky. Like throughout this film, you're like, oh, they're revealing something. But I don't necessarily wanna. That's very personal.
[20:07]
D
Should I be seeing this right now?
[20:08]
B
Which is something that Sarah Sherman is your agent, and she's Sarah Sherman and she's your agent. Jokes, like, they don't go to that same place. But again, maybe that isn't fair. And the humor in this film was also something I reacted to very well. But I also thought, well, you might go into a film like this, given its premise, and think it's gonna be camp. Ha, ha, camp. Like high frequency, high pitched. But it doesn't come at you fast. It's camp adjacent. But there's not that kind of archness that you get with camp. There's no kind of withering sardonic from 30,000ft cold appraisal. It is all of a piece. It's all mixed in. So the blood is over the top, but the humor is, you know, it's under the tie.
[20:46]
A
It's in the mix.
[20:47]
B
Right. So when the camp counselors are telling the origin story of Little Death, you've got Zack Cherry as one of the counselors. His character says something to the effect of so they drowned her. Because of course, they had to. That's where the jokes are. Like, they're in there. It's part of the vibe of the movie. They don't stand out from it. And we're not invited to. Even though it's satirizing. It's not like, hard satire. It's kind of a. Well, I say this, and then we've got Gillian Anderson doing stoner Blanche dubois. So I don't really know where the human is in this thing. I'm not sure where that. How to fit it in, but you know what I'm saying? It's of a piece.
[21:19]
C
I think that the sharpest or most arch satire comes from those moments where they're looking directly out to the industry. Generally, I see that whole storyline as maybe even less autobiographical than it is. Just like, oh, an observation, perhaps, weariness with the way that these reboots are being churned out and marketed and trying to turn them into, quote, unquote, like, high art, but, like, how that could be a futile exercise. And so I think that's probably, yeah, less biographical and more just. This is the way the industry is now, and it's. It's annoying, but here we're gonna. We're gonna try to. To. To buck against that system in. In ways and oftentimes not pull that off. But. Yeah, I don't know.
[22:04]
D
But to your point of stoner Blanche dubois, Glenn, the performances given in this movie, which you, like, led with Aisha, I mean, wow. It's amazing how this movie really unleashes, like, the canonical queer experience upon either a suspecting or unsuspecting audience. The idea of being awakened and ensorceled by Gillian Anderson, one of the most lesbian things that could happen in all pop culture. And I could not get enough of Gillian Anderson this entire time. It was like, watching. I didn't expect, like, Dolly Parton, reclusive Norma Desmond, Dolly Parton, but, like, which is the route that she goes in this. And she is just smoke crawling through a window this entire time. And Hannah Einbinder is pulling off something so challenging because she's so insufferable. Like, she's like a textbook insufferable individual. And she has to do that, and she has to be likable, and she has to be tiptoeing up to this, like, walking up to the moment where she, like, unleashes sexual inhibition and access of true, like, carnal expression for seemingly the first time in her life. And, like, play it big enough for it to fit the genre trappings but also grounded enough for it to be, like, this is a kind of love story, I guess. And then, like, the very. From 30,000 Foot, like, we're gonna skewer this. Her running, braless, tiny T shirt in her underwear, like, through the slasher scene. These are two performances of such total commitment and, like, love and absurdity. It feels like all three of them just like in Jane's upstate New York manor. Layer outside tent. Where they live, I don't know, among the earth and the song of nature. And just like becoming a hive mind and then coming to set and being like, we are all bought into the exact same movie. And it's an incredibly satisfying experience to have from just a pure performance standpoint, too.
[24:09]
B
Yeah, well, you know, this film, I think we all dug it. And, you know, there's certain films that when it comes time for Thanksgiving and everybody's saying, you know, families together, and you're like, so what should we watch something that everybody's gonna love. This Ain't that a Tom Hanks movie? Yeah, this ain't that. But if it's for you, it is entirely for you, and you will feel so very seen. That brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Cruciola, Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here.
[24:31]
C
Thank you, Glenn.
[24:32]
D
Thank you so much. Five stars.
[24:35]
C
Five stars.
[24:35]
B
Five stars. This episode was produced by Lennon Sherburne. Hufs the Fethim and Mike Katz have been edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. And hello. Come in provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all next time.
[24:52]
A
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A
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