255:BLAKE LIVELY VS. JUSTIN BALDONI PART ONE! BLAKE'S COMPLAINT AGAINST JUSTIN & JUSTIN'S LAWSUIT AGAINST NYT

Summary

Pop Apologists Podcast Episode 255 Summary

Title: BLAKE LIVELY VS. JUSTIN BALDONI PART ONE! BLAKE'S COMPLAINT AGAINST JUSTIN & JUSTIN'S LAWSUIT AGAINST NYT
Host: Chandler & Courtney
Release Date: January 9, 2025
Podcast: Pop Apologists by PodcastOne

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1. Introduction and Content Warning

At the outset of the episode, hosts Chandler and Courtney provide a content warning due to the sensitive topics discussed.

• Chandler [00:28]: "We're going to be discussing domestic violence, sexual harassment, sexual assault. So please just take care when listening."
• Courtney [00:37]: "We are going over the facts of a huge amount from Blake Lively's complaint and Justin Baldoni's lawsuit. If we misspeak at any moment or misstate any facts, we apologize."

2. Background on 'It Ends With Us' Production

The sisters delve into the production history of the film adaptation of Colleen Hoover’s book It Ends With Us, highlighting key figures and initial controversies.

• Courtney [02:16]: "In 2019, Wayfarer Studios bought the film rights to It Ends With Us. Co-founded by Justin Baldoni and Steve Sorowitz, the studio aimed to harness storytelling for social change."
• Chandler [02:52]: "Blake Lively was cast as Lily Bloom and given an executive producer credit. Justin Baldoni took on multiple roles, including director and lead star, receiving an estimated $320,000 for his contributions."

3. Early Controversies and Production Challenges

Chandler and Courtney discuss early criticisms related to casting choices, marketing strategies, and on-set tensions.

• Chandler [04:27]: "Leaked paparazzi photos of Blake in costume sparked debate on social media, with fans criticizing her character's chaotic styling."
• Courtney [04:55]: "Blake promoted her haircare line and alcohol brand during the film’s press tour, which drew backlash for trivializing the film’s serious themes."

4. Blake Lively's Legal Complaint Against Justin Baldoni and Wayfarer Studios

The episode transitions to Blake Lively filing a legal complaint alleging misconduct on set.

• Chandler [07:05]: "Blake dropped a bombshell legal complaint against Justin Baldoni, Wayfarer Studios, and others, detailing her alleged experiences on set."
• Courtney [07:46]: "Blake outlined a comprehensive list of demands to ensure a safe and respectful working environment post-strike."

5. Detailed Examination of Blake's Demands

Blake’s complaint includes numerous stipulations aimed at addressing her grievances. Hosts break down these demands meticulously.

• No Nude Scenes Without Consent:

  • Courtney [07:05]: "Blake demanded no more nude scenes unless fully choreographed with an intimacy coordinator."
  • Chandler [10:40]: "Blake was pressured to simulate full nudity during a birth scene, leading to feelings of invasion and humiliation."

• Respecting Personal Boundaries:

  • Courtney [12:19]: "Blake requested no discussions about Justin’s or Jamie Heath’s pornography habits or her personal experiences with sex."
  • Chandler [15:15]: "Allegations included Justin making inappropriate comments about sexual consent and personal matters."

• Health and Safety Protocols:

  • Courtney [19:25]: "Blake required immediate notification if she or her child were exposed to COVID-19, emphasizing the need for transparency and safety."

• Choreographed Intimacy:

  • Chandler [20:33]: "All intimate scenes must be choreographed in advance, with no improvising to ensure Blake's comfort and consent."

6. Justin Baldoni's Response and Lawsuit Against The New York Times

Justin Baldoni counters the allegations by suing The New York Times for defamation, alleging the publication of a biased article.

• Courtney [42:19]: "Justin is suing The New York Times for $250 million, claiming the article was defamatory and manipulated evidence against him and Wayfarer Studios."
• Chandler [43:13]: "The lawsuit contends that The New York Times published the article without allowing Wayfarer Studios adequate time to respond, constituting promissory fraud."

7. Public and Industry Reaction

The hosts analyze the public’s response to both Blake’s and Justin’s actions, noting polarization and support from various industry figures.

• Courtney [61:55]: "Colleen Hoover and other celebrities expressed solidarity with Blake, labeling the smear campaign as troubling and threatening."
• Chandler [34:14]: "Despite controversies, the film grossed $325 million globally, and Justin received accolades for his advocacy work."

8. Analysis and Insights from Hosts

Chandler and Courtney provide their perspectives, discussing the complexities and conflicting narratives presented by both parties.

• Chandler [17:15]: "Justin sounds genuine in his attempts to be honest, but his approach made some uncomfortable."
• Courtney [55:27]: "Both parties exhibit problematic behaviors, making it difficult to discern the full truth."

9. Conclusion and Future Expectations

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the ongoing legal battles and the potential long-term impacts on both Blake Lively’s career and Justin Baldoni’s reputation.

• Courtney [63:14]: "There is compelling evidence on both sides, creating a gray area that complicates public perception."
• Chandler [63:30]: "The lawsuit highlights significant issues within the film's production, leaving audiences with a multifaceted narrative."

Notable Quotes

• Chandler [10:40]: "Blake would feel uncomfortable. Also, she's postpartum, right? Like, she's literally just given birth. That area is still like..."
• Courtney [12:19]: "It's alleged that Justin would bring up pornography and she would want him to shut up about it."
• Chandler [43:14]: "They want a jury."
• Courtney [56:59]: "I'm speechless on this podcast when I look at this outfit."

Final Thoughts

Chandler and Courtney strive to present a balanced view, acknowledging the severity of the allegations while recognizing the complexities involved. They emphasize the importance of understanding both sides before forming opinions and encourage listeners to follow up with further investigations into the ongoing legal disputes.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the transcript of Pop Apologists Episode 255 and aims to provide an accurate and comprehensive overview of the discussed content. For detailed insights and the latest updates, listeners are encouraged to tune into the podcast directly.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Chandler]

Just a quick note before we begin this episode. We're going to be discussing domestic violence, sexual harassment, sexual assault. So please just take care when listening.

[Courtney]

Also, we just want to say we are going over the facts of a huge amount from Blake Lively's complaint and Justin Baldoni's lawsuit. If we misspeak at any moment or misstate any facts, we apologize. It's a huge amount of material to try to condense into a single episode. We're just doing our best. Love you guys. Thanks.

[Chandler]

Can I just say, I just think there are too many awards. I don't think this award needs to exist. And maybe everyone's gonna, you know, put on my pink pussy hat or whatever, a man hating hat. But I just think this award, we don't need it. No, we don't need it. Let's just funnel all that money that went towards, you know, the steak and chicken at this thing towards survivors of domestic violence or whatever.

[Courtney]

Well, well, well. The long awaited deep dive of the Blue Blake Lively vs Justin Baldoni Drama on the set of it ends with us. We have one legal complaint. We have one full lawsuit. So much to get into today.

[Chandler]

There's 160 plus pages to cover. We have a lot to dig into, everyone. We've been waiting to speak on this till we were fully prepared. And I'm excited.

[Courtney]

I'm excited too. I've been dying to chat about it with you, everyone. We're gonna try to take this as chronologically as possible to try to make it make sense. And we're gonna just really give a comprehensive overview of everything that's going on. So we are also going to try to stick to the facts. We're going to give, of course, some commentary, but we're going to try not to get sidetracked about Blake Lively style. For example, like we. I think we've had that conversation.

[Chandler]

There is one thing I want to talk about with the beanie and that's the only thing I'm going to say. And we'll get to it when we get to it and I'll keep it concise. But anyway, let's get started.

[Courtney]

Let's get started. Okay, so everyone. In 2019, a small but burgeoning production company named Wayfarer Studios bought the film rights to the the massively popular Colleen Hoover book It Ends With Us. Co founded by Justin Baldoni and Steve Sorowitz and led by the CEO Jamie Heath, Wayfarer claimed to harness the power of storytelling to champion inspirational stories that act as true agents for social change. A fitting description for the studio given all that has transpired in the past couple of weeks, albeit not exactly what we can imagine they had in mind.

[Chandler]

Right, so everyone. Blake Lively was cast as the protagonist, Lily Bloom, and was given also an executive producer credit. Baldoni took on triple roles as male lead Ryle Kincaid, the film's director and producer. It's important to note that even though he was not the bigger name, he was absolutely the boss on this movie. And Blake Lively, superior. So Production began in May 2023, but as we know, faced significant setbacks due to the Writer's Guild strike and later after the SAG AFTRA strike, delaying its until August 2024. Blake of Gossip Girl. We know, you know, bestie to Taylor Swift, wife to Ryan Reynolds, an all around powerhouse businesswoman, mom of four. She doesn't really need an introduction. Worth noting that she received $3 million for her role.

[Courtney]

Estimated.

[Chandler]

Yeah, estimated $3 million.

[Courtney]

Justin Baldoni, on the other hand, was relatively unknown until this project came out. He is a self appointed feminist ally and has made a lot of his public appearances around, you know, being an activist in feminist spaces. He on TED Talks, he's been on, he has a podcast about all that stuff. Unless you watched Jane the Virgin circa 2013 or unfortunately came across his 27 minute long proposal to his wife video, which is very cringe. And we'll get into that if we have time. This project is most likely the first time you've ever heard of Justin. He allegedly received $320,000 for his role as director, producer and lead star.

[Chandler]

Okay, everyone, so I think we remember that there were early rumblings with this film. From the outset, the project was met with much stylistic skepticism. Leaked paparazzi photos of Blake in costume sparked lots of debate on TikTok and Instagram. I think we were probably a part of that. Fans criticized her character's seemingly chaotic costuming when the film came out. Critics felt the marketing campaign's lighthearted tone, including the, you know, the floral outfits, clashed with the novel's heavy themes of domestic violence.

[Courtney]

Adding to the controversy, Blake promoted her new haircare line Blake Brown and her alcohol brand Betty Buzz during the film's press tour. At the after party for the film's premiere, themed cocktails, including Ryle U Wait, named after the abusive male lead. Ryle faced backlash for trivializing the serious subject matter. Colleen Hoover also capitalized on the film with a nail polish collaboration with Olive and June and clothing sold on her website. Plans for a coloring book were scrapped after public criticism.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I think that the audience was left with, wait, is this a heavy movie? Is this a grab your girls and wear your florals like lighthearted rom com? There was just a little bit of mixed messaging with tone, like, do I.

[Courtney]

Really want my 5 year old to be coloring in, you know, the lines of Ryle and Lily?

[Chandler]

Yeah, I did not know about the coloring book. That is maybe the most damning thing on all these pages. But. But anyway. As the premiere approached, tension between the cast and crew became very apparent, fueling rumors of discord that started much earlier. However, at the time, no one knew what really happened, except that the cast and Justin Baldoni promoted the movie separately, and no one from the cast would discuss working with Justin in, you know, any press for the movie. And everyone online seemed to be turning against Blake Lively. If you'll remember that viral video of Blake being rude to that interviewer who says, congrats on your little bump. And Blake is really snarky. And she says, congrats on your little bump, which just totally ignited widespread disapproval and, you know, this sort of cancel Blake Lively mentality.

[Courtney]

In contrast, people seem to really love Justin. They love that he took a really serious approach to the topic of domestic violence when promoting the film. And he was lauded as a feminist hero, even winning an award for amplifying the voices of victims of abuse. Just before Christmas, when chatter surrounding the movie had died down and Blake Lively's reputation was essentially destroyed, Blake dropped a bombshell legal complaint against Justin Baldoni, Wayfarer Studios, and others that revealed what Blake alleged actually went down on the set of It Ends With Us.

[Chandler]

So I think we should just take a little moment here. We had all sort of come to terms with the fact that Blake Lively sucks, and we were kind of over. It ends with all that drama from the summer, and then this bombshell hits right before Christmas and just totally rocks our world. So before we get into what Blake alleges happened and her list of demands, let's note that because of the SAG AFTRA strike, this list of demands that she put out didn't come till after that. So basically, she had to deal with all of this before the strike, even happened. And it wasn't until the strike happened that then they paused on everything. And then when they came back, she said, this is what I want to happen. This is how things need to go from here on out.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And most actors and actresses are under such pressure to not hold up production because so much money is spent for every minute everyone is on set. So most likely, Blake would have never been able to have voiced these concerns in any way that would have paused production at all. So she kind of was lucky that they had that pause. She could then have all of these concerns come out and have them addressed before they went back to set. Okay, so the following is a list of demands that Blake made to Wayfarer, to Justin Baldoni for how she wanted production to proceed once they came, came back from the strike. And this all came out. In Blake's complaint, Blake said she demanded no more showing nude videos or images of women, including the producer, Jamie Heath's wife, to Blake Lively and or employees. So what is in the complaint is that on the day that Blake was set to film the birth scene, she was pressured to simulate full nudity, even though that wasn't in the script at all. And this was just, you know, sprung on her by Justin and Jamie. Justin insisted that women give birth naked, and he claimed that his wife ripped off her hospital gown during birth. And he said it wasn't normal for a woman to not be naked during birth. Jamie Heath showed her a video of his wife giving birth nude. When Blake felt uncomfortable and objected to this and said maybe his wife wouldn't have appreciated this, he said, my wife isn't weird about that stuff. Kind of implying that Blake was a prude.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So Blake is feeling very pressured in this moment to have this scene be nude. And she compromised. And she said, I'll have it be semi nude nude from the. The chest down. And she says in the complaint that the set was not set up for a nude scene that day. The way that they ordinarily would do that is they would close the set. They would only have essential personnel on set. They would not have all the monitors on people's personal devices, would not be allowed to be on set. But instead, it was the opposite. Everyone had their phones, their iPads, all the monitors were on. Anyone could walk in and out of that set. And she found out, okay, when she's in the stirrups and she apparently only had a little piece of cloth covering her genitalia, she finds out that the person who's going to be playing her obgyn is Justin's friend. Ordinarily, you know, for a role of that nature, a local actor would have been hired, but instead, Justin just had his friend do it. So Justin's friend is going to be near her mostly naked body and near her almost naked genitalia, which she said she found to be invasive and humiliating. Additionally, Steve Sorowitz, the billionaire co founder of Warefarer, he was only on set a few days during filming. It ends with us. And he happened to be on set that day. So she objected to barely being covered at all in between takes. And it was only after she objected multiple times that she was given something to cover herself. This is what she alleges in her complaint.

[Chandler]

So I did a little bit of extra research into nude scenes, sexual scenes, how that all works, like with sag, SAG writers and that type of thing. And there is just so much prep that goes into that in terms of scripting everything exactly out. What is going to be shown, what's going to be covered, while, you know, some certain things are being shown. Also, the movements additionally, like. I mean, it goes into extreme detail, I think, to protect people. And so that also actors feel like they know what to expect. It says, you know, you're going to be covered this much when your people are going to immediately have. I think it's like, I can't remember they called the garment something, but basically, like, you'll be covered completely when you don't need to be showing anything. And just basically just going to all these lengths to make sure that the actor knows when they're gonna be uncovered and when they will be covered and to just, like, make them feel comfortable. So I think that just kind of shows how haphazard this situation was and how, of course, Blake would feel uncomfortable. Also, she's postpartum, right? Like, she's literally just given birth. That area is still like, I don't need to go into any more detail.

[Courtney]

But I find it particularly enraging that this woman has had four children. So why is Justin Baldoni mansplaining to her how childbirth goes down? Like, fuck off.

[Chandler]

Respectfully, his wife ripped off her hospital gown. She's not weird about that stuff. Okay, let's move on. Yes, also all of these demands, and I feel like demand is a very charged word. But all of this list of parameters that Blake now wants followed all begin basically with the phrase no more. So the next one, no more mention of Justin Baldoni or Jamie Heath's pornography addiction or Blake Lively's lack of pornography conception to Blake or to other crew members.

[Courtney]

So it's alleged that Justin would bring up pornography and she would want him to shut up about it. And he would bring up specifics of pornography, like assuming she had seen similar videos. And she said, I've never seen it. She says, trying to make him shut up. And at a later date, when he brings up porn again in front of other cast and crew, he says, well, Blake's never seen porn and she felt that this was really embarrassing and really inappropriate. Her consumption or lack of consumption of erotic material is not fodder for public discussion.

[Chandler]

Right? Absolutely.

[Courtney]

The next demand is no more discussion to Blake Lively and or her employees about personal experiences with sex, including as it relates to spouses or others. So another thing that's mentioned in this complaint is that Justin let Blake know that he and his wife climax together because he wanted a scene of Ryle and Lily climaxing together that was not in the script that she originally sent into. He also wanted to add a scene where there was a shot of her orgasming on camera. And this again, she did not agree to it. And he said, well, my wife and I, we orgasm together. Do you and your husband orgasm together? Allegedly. And she found this to be an invasive.

[Chandler]

Really? I don't think that's an ending. There's nothing invasive about that. His wife's not weird about that.

[Courtney]

It's 2025.

[Chandler]

2025 is upon us.

[Courtney]

We are all ready to get in.

[Chandler]

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[Courtney]

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[Chandler]

Sounds great. Let's do it.

[Courtney]

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[Chandler]

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[Courtney]

I love the prickly pear. I'm such a huge fan of the clear protein. Courtney has cases always at the ready now at her house, she's a huge fan.

[Chandler]

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[Courtney]

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[Chandler]

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[Courtney]

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[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Chandler]

Okay, moving on to the next one. No more mention to Blake Lively or her employees of personal times that physical consent was not given in sexual acts as either the abuser or the abused. So the documents describe a car ride with Blake, her assistant and driver, during production wherein Justin allegedly claimed to Lively, quote, that he had been sexually abused by a former girlfriend. End quote. Which then caused him to, quote, re examine his past. Baldoni then claimed, did I always ask for consent? No. Did I always listen when they said no? No. Adding, this was an example of how we all have things from which we can learn and grow. Lively claimed that when Baldoni exited the car, her driver immediately remarked that he did not want Ms. Lively to be alone with Mr. Baldon going forward.

[Courtney]

I get that the driver is Blake's employee and so I don't know, maybe this quote never happened, but in my opinion, this third party, like, neutral observation of Justin Baldoni is pretty damning. It's pretty weird. First of all, this is a horrible thing to say that it's one thing to say, did I always ask for consent? I feel like that's something that was introduced into the conversation, you know, in the past decade or so. It hasn't always been something that we really talked about.

[Chandler]

Right, right. Or actively thought about in a super serious.

[Courtney]

Right. But the idea of did I listen when they said no? No. I'm sorry, what?

[Chandler]

Yeah, so I'm not going to derail with a large side conversation, but something that has been really sitting with me as I've been poring over all this is I think where Justin Baldoni fails me or where I feel like an issue with him is, is that I think he's a guy who tries to be very honest. And just because you're extremely honest and because you're also, you know, a self appointed ally or whatever. But even, even if you talk about all that stu still make people really uncomfortable with the things that you say. And you can, you can be an ally, someone who says you're an ally and still make people uncomfortable with your honesty and not everyone wants to know about the pornography you watch or other things like that. So just these are my own musings from these documents.

[Courtney]

And I think this perfectly tees up the next demand, which is no more descriptions of their genitalia to Blake Lively. Okay, maybe she doesn't want to hear about that.

[Chandler]

Maybe he excuses himself by saying, I'm an ally or all these other things. But you can still make inappropriate jokes. Absolutely. So the next one. No more jokes or disparaging comments to be made to Blake Lively and her employees about HR complaints Wayfarer has already received on set or about missing, quote, the HR meeting.

[Courtney]

So that was basically, apparently on set, when someone would say that they were a little uncomfortable or kind of check him in some way, he would bristle and kind of disparage them or try to make them feel like they're being prudish or annoying by saying, I guess I missed the HR meeting.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah. Moving on to the next one. No more inquiries by Justin Baldoni to Blake Lively's trainer without her knowledge or consent to disclose her weight. So allegedly, Justin has a bad back, and he inquired to Blake Lively's trainer about how much she weighed so that he could train correctly to perform the. Like, a scene, I guess, where he was gonna be lifting her.

[Courtney]

Right. And that is what he says, is that all of this obsession with her weight, it was all about him wanting to feel comfortable with this scene lifting. My advice is let's just cut this scene where you're lifting her up.

[Chandler]

I'm good. I'm good on the lifting scene. Yeah.

[Courtney]

That is not central to the storyline.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah. Let's cut the climaxing together scene, and let's cut the lifting scene, and we're good.

[Courtney]

Okay. No more mention of Justin Baldoni speaking to Blake Lively's dead father or mentioning his religious beliefs or asking her to share hers. So there's also, like, please stop asking me to Sage my employees. I think this guy has a lot of, like, spiritual mumbo jumbo going on. And part of that included wanting to Sage very la. Part of that included seeing he could speak to dead people. And he also had, I guess, coincidentally spoken to Blake's dead father recently.

[Chandler]

Once again, this guy just needs to shut up. At best, people do not care. And, you know, he's just kind of being annoying.

[Courtney]

I'm sure Blake would love to talk with her dead father.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So it's kind of rude to Flux that you chatted with him.

[Chandler]

Exactly. Like, at best, he's making people uncomfortable, and at worst, this Is like full harassment.

[Courtney]

Also, she requests that if. If she and her infant are exposed to Covid again, Blake Lively must be provided with immediate notice as soon as Wayfarer or any other producers become aware of the exposure. Because apparently she and her child were exposed to Covid. They contracted Covid. They got sick with COVID She had to uncover the fact that they knew she was being exposed to Covid. But because they did not have insurance. Wayfair did not have insurance. They specifically did not disclose to her that she was exposed to. Not shut down production.

[Chandler]

I think they specifically do not have Covid insurance.

[Courtney]

Yeah, Covid insurance. Thank you.

[Chandler]

Okay, these next two demands, I think, are pretty damning. No more personal physical touching or sexual comments by Justin Baldoni or Jamie Heath to be tolerated by Blake Lively and or any of her employees, as well as any female cast or crew, without their express consent. The next one, no more improvising of kissing. All intimate touch must be choreographed in advance with Blake Lively and an intimacy coordinator. No biting or sucking of lip without Blake Lively's consent. All intimate on camera touch and conversation must be in character, not spoken from Justin Baldoni to Blake Lively personally.

[Courtney]

So Justin allegedly improvised physical intimacy during scenes without rehearsals or the involvement of an intimacy coordinator.

[Chandler]

Okay, so apparently they were filming a dancing scene where they didn't need to have any audio. You know, they didn't need to be speaking to each other in character. But apparently, allegedly Baldoni dragged his lips along her neck and said to her, muttered, it smells so good. And Blake reports this as invasive and totally unrelated to the script. So just kind of a, what the hell are you doing?

[Courtney]

And she didn't feel it was in character like it was from him to her, not from Ryle to Lily.

[Chandler]

Right. Which is why I think she says in her demand, like, everything must be in character. Nothing, just improvised.

[Courtney]

Right. Blake also requested a representative was on set at all times to monitor scenes with nudity, sexual activity or violence with Justin Baldoni. So there was a moment also during an intimacy scene where he bit and sucked on her lower lip, which was not part of what was supposed to happen during that scene that was improvised. Okay, so the next demand. All actors participating with Blake Lively in intimate scenes involving her being in any state of nudity or simulated nudity must be classified as active working actors, not friends of the director, and must be approved by Blake Lively. So going back to the obgyn.

[Chandler]

Right. Okay, so the next one, this kind of touches on what we chatted about earlier. But no more filming of any Blake Lively nudity without a fully executed, SAG compliant nudity writer in place, which, you know, a writer is obviously where you can say, this is how I want this to go down. Any footage already shot without this writer in place and indirect violation of SAG requirements may not be used without Blake Lively's and her legal representative's prior written consent.

[Courtney]

The next demand is any scene by Blake Lively or another performer depicting the character of Lily that involves nudity or simulated sex must be conducted strictly in accordance with the above reference nudie writer and must adhere to the Blake Lively approved script. I think it's just really important to note that all of these demands, they're coming in at a time where nothing has happened in the public purview. They have not wrapped on filming, obviously. So I just wanna, like, reiterate that I feel like this is not a posthumous account of how things went down. This is not like the smear campaign came out and Blake suddenly is like, well, actually, this is. All this stuff happened. No, this is documentation early on of abuses she felt she suffered at the hands of Justin and Wayfarer.

[Chandler]

Right. And I think we as the audience and as the public need to recognize that we're now reading this with so much more context, and that's honestly informing our own bias. But this literally came out after just a little bit of filming. A little bit of filming, then the strike happens. And then right before they go back to filming, she's like, hey, this is the way things need to go down in order for this film to continue.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chandler]

There's a couple more that are about an intimacy coordinator. I think it's actually. Let's talk about the intimacy coordinator. So next one. An intimacy coordinator must be on set for all scenes involving nudity and or simulated sex and must have a monitor to ensure compliance. Next one, similar to this. No monitors to be viewed or accessible on set or remotely during closed set scenes, except by Blake Lively. Approved essential crew and personnel. The next one, which is going into, you know, another issue. No more entering, attempting to enter, interrupting, pressuring, or asking Blake Lively to enter her trailer or the makeup trailer by Jamie Heath or Justin Baldoni while she is in the nude for any reason.

[Courtney]

So Blake claimed in this complaint that early on in the shoot, Jamie Heath arrived unannounced at her makeup trailer while she was, quote, topless and having body makeup removed by makeup artists. When he refused to to come back later, she requested that he at least turn the other way as she was topless. He allegedly could not even meet that request. So she says she caught him staring directly at her while she was topless. Yeah.

[Chandler]

And I think another detail that I heard is that she then said, hey, can you turn around? Or whatever. And he was like, oh, sorry. I just, you know, I'm so used to looking at people when I'm talking to them. Right.

[Courtney]

Or no, she asked him to turn around. It says that he wouldn't.

[Chandler]

He did. And then I think he, like, she.

[Courtney]

Like, caught him looking.

[Chandler]

Yeah, exactly. Or whatever.

[Courtney]

Stop looking at me. And he's like, sorry, I'm used to looking at people when I'm talking to them.

[Chandler]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

I think it would actually be pretty instinctual to look away.

[Chandler]

Absolutely stopless. Yes. I think that's like a normal human. Yeah, Instinct.

[Courtney]

Okay, the next one.

[Chandler]

This one is hilarious.

[Courtney]

I know. And this one, I think is such a searing indictment. And for me, I'm just like, I don't really need any more information on this man. Like, I'm good. Okay. But it's no more private multi hour meetings in Blake Lively's trailer with Justin Baldoni crying with no outside. Blake Lively appointed representative to monitor.

[Chandler]

I want a sweatshirt that says that.

[Courtney]

Which part? The whole thing.

[Chandler]

The whole thing. Multi hour meetings in Blake Lively's trailer. Trailer with Justin Baldoni crying.

[Courtney]

Because you know what this multi hour meeting is that she's referencing? This was when the paparazzi shot came out of her filming as Lily. The first shots hit, and apparently everyone was up in arms about the hideous outfit. It looked so bad. But then also there were a lot of complaints that, like, people said she looked frumpy, that she was too old for this part. They really didn't like her cast. And what Blake Lively alleges is that Justin Baldoni was crying about the fact that she was not hot enough to play Lily. Like, he was obsessed with her being too heavy, essentially. And this woman is postpartum. Her infant is on set. And like, you have your male superior and co star in your trailer crying to you about your body not being slim enough.

[Chandler]

That is really crazy to me. I honestly don't know how much of that I totally buy.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Chandler]

That he was, like, crying about her not being sexy enough. But what I do believe is that he was crying about maybe this not being well received or something. And I think also just getting back to all the other instances we have of him just sharing too much, being way too honest, not being very professional. Like, that, to me, is. Is really where I feel like this is who this guy was.

[Courtney]

I have to push back a little bit. And Say that he was obsessed with her weight. He hired her this like personal trainer that was apparently actually like a diet specialist. He asked her trainer if she could lose weight in two weeks. Like he was obsessed with her weight. And I don't know. I also think it's very interesting when his suit comes out. There's nothing really countering this and that's a big part of her claim. Is this multi hour meeting about her appearance not being.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I'm not saying that he wasn't obsessed with that or that he didn't have other motives with the meeting with the trainer and everything. I think I just, I can't even imagine a meeting where a man is crying about you not being sexy enough. I don't know that just something about that just doesn't feel exactly the way that went down.

[Courtney]

But especially when you. The amount of times I like make sure I look cute enough when we're starting to record our little podcast. If I was a postpartum woman about to film a huge movie where everyone was going to see me, I can't imagine how self conscious she was just preparing to film, let alone to have someone complaining about your looks to you, crying in your trailer for many hours. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I would have been outside.

[Chandler]

And also, once again, this guy is her boss on this film.

[Courtney]

I think the next demands are a little repetitive. We kind of already have gone over them, so I think we should just move forward and say that they all met. There was an all hands meeting before they resumed going back to set and Ryan Reynolds was included in that meeting and they all agreed to these demands. Chandler, can I share with you something?

[Chandler]

Always.

[Courtney]

I truly am loving an early bird in place of a glass of wine. At the end of the day, I feel like we're all trying to drink less as a nation, as one world trying to be healthier.

[Chandler]

It's true, we are.

[Courtney]

Yeah, like drinking less is really a trend. And although we do want a way to just melt away at the end of the day, just relax a little bit. That's where early bird CBD comes in. This magical concoction of 2.5mg THC and 12.5mg CBD CD, it will just give you the perfect little melty. Nice buzz, but it's almost undetectable. It's very mild, it's very relaxed. I recommend even starting with a half if you're uneasy, but it's truly a divine experience.

[Chandler]

It's mild, melty perfection. It's one of the number one things I'm recommending to friends constantly, I love Early Bird. Everyone go to earlybirdcbd.com and use our code pop20 at checkout. That's earlybirdcbd.com use our code pop20.

[Courtney]

So filming wraps and in the summer of 2024, a marketing plan was devised by Sony given out to the cast, urging them to focus on selling the film as a tale of female triumph and to avoid talking about this film in any way that makes it too heavy or sad. It's a story of hope. Justin participated in this marketing plan early on. He made an appearance at a floral themed pop up and excitedly gave a tour of a recreation of Lily's flower shop.

[Chandler]

Okay, so with all of that that he participated in, up until that point, themes of partner violence and survivorship were totally avoided. But then Justin starts to stray from the agreed upon marketing plan and started posting and sharing stories of intimate partner abuse on his social media. Additionally, social media sleuths noted that while Baldoni followed his co stars and Hoover on Instagram calling Hoover the author, they did not reciprocate. Baldoni eventually stopped appearing with other cast members at promotional events. His absence was attributed to a health issue issue.

[Courtney]

So on August 6, 2024, at the premiere for It Ends With Us, Justin was notably segregated from the main cast. He attended a separate screening which occurred under conditions dictated by Blake Lively. Beldoni, along with his family and the Wayfarer team, were confined to a makeshift holding area in the basement before being escorted into a separate theater after Lively had left the main event. This arrangement was made in response to Lively's apparent refusal to allow Baldoni to fully participate in the main screening or the exclusive afterpart.

[Chandler]

So two days later on the Today Show, Justin praised Lively's contributions to the film amidst revelations of two different cuts of the movie in post production. So if you'll remember, you know, we heard that Blake Lively had a cut and Justin had a cut and that they ended up going with Blake Lively's cut, even though I think they tested both of them. And Justin's tested better.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chandler]

But he still praised her on the Today show.

[Courtney]

The next day, allegations surfaced from Page Six about Baldoni's behavior on set, particularly concerning Lake Lively's postpartum body, describing him as dismissive and chauvinistic.

[Chandler]

I think this is kind of where we as the audience, I think, are really mostly awakened to the issues. This is when the drama really picks up.

[Courtney]

Right? Yeah. And a few days later, the Daily Mail publishes an article Claiming that there is a tense environment on set attributed to Justin Baldoni. The next day, Justin hires PR expert Melissa Nathan to manage the fallout amidst accusations of fat shaming and inappropriate conduct. And that is when Melissa and her team create this document called Scenario Planning.

[Chandler]

So the document outlines a strategic scenario planning that is designed to protect the reputations of Justin Baldoni, Jamie Heath, and Wayfarer Studios amid anticipated public grievances with Blake Lively surrounding. It ends with us. So the plan includes proactive media engagement, digital narrative manipulation, and rapid response tactics to counter negative press while amplifying positive stories about justice.

[Courtney]

So key strategies involve framing Blake Lively as disruptive and difficult to work with, emphasizing her legit industry reputation, and using trusted journalists to plant favorable narratives. The document highlights covert efforts to discredit Blake Lively, avoid direct confrontations with her husband, Ryan Reynolds, and maintain plausible deniability. With a focus on preserving Baldoni's image as an inclusive leader and emerging director. PR expert Melissa Nathan, hired by Wayfarer Studios, allegedly outlined strategies to harm Blake's public image, amplifying narratives that painted her as tone deaf and difficult.

[Chandler]

Okay, so this is when we get into the text messages that totally rocked us. As I said, so. Messages between Beloni, Heath and their team revealed explicit discussions about, quote, burying Lively. Melissa Nathan wrote, you know, we can bury anyone, end quote, and assured the work would, quote, remain, most importantly, untraceable, end quote. The team explored hiring contractors to manipulate social media through proactive fan posting threads of theories and full social account takedowns to shift public perception.

[Courtney]

Nathan claimed to have suppressed damaging stories about Baldoni while planting negative ones about Lively. For example, there's text messages where. And this is in Blake's complaint.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Courtney]

Okay. So we're going to get more context to these text messages. But in Blake's complaint, she seems to have coordinated an article in the Daily Mail that says, is Blake Lively set to be all caps Canceled?

[Chandler]

Yeah. There's a lot to get into with these text messages. We know that there is more context that is then released in Justin's. But we're just trying to be chronological.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And I think it's important to note that again, like, let's flashback to the summer we all canceled Blake Lively in our brains. A lot of people did. They all thought she's awful. The video of her came out that went so viral of her being so rude to that reporter, like, they were successful. And so I think that Blake Lively's reputation did get destroyed. So I think that when we got these messages in Blake's Complaint we were. Were like, oh, my gosh. Yes, they did that well.

[Chandler]

I think I felt like, oh, my gosh, I got got.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Okay, so. A forensic analysis revealed a sharp increase in negative media coverage and online criticism of Blake Lively, with her name increasingly linked to Baldoni in search results. So the effect of the smear campaign was that the manipulation significantly impacted her career and public image, as well as her haircare business, which reported a 78% drop in sales. The narrative painted blue as tone deaf, difficult to work with, and resulted in headlines speculating whether she was being canceled. Meanwhile, Justin Baldoni emerged largely unscathed, continuing to promote the film and receiving accolades for his advocacy of gender equality.

[Chandler]

I wanna say I think this was sort of the perfect storm, because I don't think that all of this just suddenly sprang up in August. I do think, personally, I can speak for myself. I didn't have a lot of love for Blake Lively pre. It ends with us, even pre. All of this. She kind of annoyed me in certain ways. Her and Rya Reynolds, like, back and forth, you know, the way. I don't know, both of them kind of annoyed me. And so I think that this was the perfect storm of, like, suddenly the right clips are being posted online, and there's just a groundswell of negativity towards her.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And I think that we all didn't like the way this film was being marketed.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Okay. We all thought it was cringe. And Blake was in that video being rude to the reporter.

[Chandler]

And also there was the video of her saying something about. I think the reporter asked her, like, how can fans connect with you about this, with this character or something? And she's like, okay, do you want me to share my location or something? She's just very sarcastic and snarky and just didn't come across well.

[Courtney]

Additionally, her and Leighton Meester, they did not get along on the set of Gossip Girl. And I just find that. I don't know, there's just something. Leighton Meester, for me, I'll just say, is very likable.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Seems like a very nice, normal girl. And there's something, I think, wrong on a set like that. If those two main leads are not getting along, there's something weird, like one of them is off.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Courtney]

And finally, I will just say this. It really reminds me of Housewives, where it's like, a lot of times what they say is, like, you can blame a bad edit, like, Blake's trying to blame this smear campaign.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But they can't show things. You didn't say. And in a lot of these clips and like evidence of Blake being cringe and being rude, like, Blake did those things. And Blake did use the film. Film as a moment to launch a hair care business.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Courtney]

And promoting her alcohol brand, Betty Buzz. It's just not a good look when you're promoting also a film about domestic violence.

[Chandler]

Well, I think too, it was just a lot of like, all about Blake, all about how this is how I styled it. This is the, this is my hair care line, my Betty Buzz, whatever. It was just a lot about her and how this was her vision. And I think people felt like that it didn't land for people.

[Courtney]

And also the clothes were objectively ugly and that was itself offensive.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Okay, but all these complaints against Justin Baldoni, again, these were things that she vehemently wanted to not happen. And the cast and crew stood beside her.

[Chandler]

And I think she could have been all of those things. Disingenuous. She could have been snarky and rude, all of those things. And still have been harassed on set, Right?

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Chandler]

Period.

[Courtney]

Absolutely. Okay, so a week after Melissa Nathan is hired to engage in this alleged Samir campaign, that is when the Blake Lively clip goes viral. The film, despite its mixed critical reception, grosses 325 million globally. It climbed Netflix's charts. Even as the controversies continued, Blake canceled her promotional event for her haircare line and her appearance on SNL due to emotional distress. In the meantime, Justin wins the Voices of Solidarity Award. An award that celebrates remarkable men who have shown courage and compassion in advocating on behalf of women and girls.

[Chandler]

Can I just say, I just think there are too many awards. I don't think this award needs to exist. And maybe everyone's gonna, you know, put on my pink pussy hat or whatever. A man hating hat. But I just think this award. We don't need it. No, we don't need it. Let's just funnel all that money that went towards, you know, the, the steak and chicken at this thing towards survivors of domestic violence or whatever. I just don't think we need this award.

[Courtney]

Thank you, Chandler. An excellent point. Okay, so this, this legal complaint is dropped and everyone is like, oh my.

[Chandler]

Gosh, we got caught.

[Courtney]

And it looks pretty fucking damning. And I was feeling pretty good about myself because I, during all of this, when everyone was so up in arms, I said, hey, maybe the marketing plan of the movie, they know that if they go heavy handed with this being a movie about domestic violence, a lot of people are not gonna wanna go see that.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And so Maybe this is just a corporate strategy. And lo and behold, Sony did have an entire document where that was the corporate strategy. So I was feeling really good about myself. I also felt like I had a personal vendetta against Justin Baldoni because I dated someone who. He reminded me of him very much, who ended up being a total con man. And I just felt like, yeah, I've seen a guy like this before. I know him when I see him. And they're just total narcissist liars.

[Chandler]

You know, allegedly, they masquerade as, you know, emotionally vulnerable, intelligent allies who are. Yeah, actually narcissists who somehow their behavior is excused because of, like, all the good that they do.

[Courtney]

It's like, who wants to trust a man who's made his entire brand all about, like, being a champion for the voices of women? I don't know.

[Chandler]

There's just something icky about it.

[Courtney]

It's disingenuous. Imagine a woman whose entire brand is about being the voice for men.

[Chandler]

That world doesn't exist.

[Courtney]

It strains credulity.

[Chandler]

Absolutely. So I even felt like, oh, my gosh, I can really fall prey to the media machine. I felt bad. I felt guilty. I was a little torn up, if I can use that expression about people. I don't know. I guess for how hard I was. Yeah. Down with Blake.

[Courtney]

I mean, it was a dark night of the soul for us all. Especially when you read that message that it's like we can bury anyone, and it's like, okay, and they buried her, and she's dead to all of us.

[Chandler]

Totally. Absolutely. And we were like. We had our pitchforks out, and I feel like we were, like, happy to see it happen. It was a dark night of the soul.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Such a poet.

[Courtney]

Well, I mean, that's not my quote, but thank you. Okay. I didn't make that one up. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I want you all to think about what you want your 2025 story to be. And with that, I'm going to tell you a little story about. About my summer of 2024. I was dealing with something that was very personal. It was not something I wanted to talk to a lot of friends and family about. It was not something I thought I could get through with just journaling and thinking about it myself. And so I sought out some help with an online therapist. I cannot begin to describe how transformative this was. Even after a few sessions, I felt like I had made so much progress on this issue that had really been troubling me since the beginning of the year. If there's something you want to work on, I cannot recommend using Better Help More BetterHelp is a online therapy platform where you can have access to a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. You can easily switch between therapists at any time with no extra cost so you can find the therapist that's really going to work best for you and you can get the help you need. Write your story in 2025 with BetterHelp. That's betterhelp.com popapologist to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com popapologists this episode is.

[Chandler]

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[Stassi Schroeder]

Hi, I'm Stassi Schroeder. On my podcast I share candid updates from my personal life, chat with some of my best friends about what's going on in our lives, give commentary on the latest pop culture headlines, and sometimes deep dive into random topics. I'm obsessed with like, human design. It's a bit all over the place, but that's how I like it. And you will too. Listen to my podcast Dossi wherever you get your podcast podcasts.

[Courtney]

Now let's get to Justin's suit against the New York Times. So apparently Justin is going to be suing Blake Lively as well. That is the rumor, but the only suit that has been filed is his suit against the New York Times. Okay, so Blake drops her claim right before Christmas, and just a few days into the new Year, Justin Baldoni fires back and sues the New York Times for $250 million.

[Chandler]

Wow.

[Courtney]

This lawsuit filed by Justin Baldoni, Wayfarer Studios and related parties against New York Times centers on allegations of defamation, false light, invasion of privacy, and other claims arising from the controversial article published by the New York Times regarding the production of It Ends With Us and alleged mistreatment of Blake. One thing to note is I think a lot of people think Justin Baldoni versus The New York Times like this is David versus Goliath this is just gonna very quickly be dismissed.

[Chandler]

I didn't think that, but people are thinking that.

[Courtney]

Well, honestly, that's what I thought at first.

[Chandler]

Oh.

[Courtney]

So I think it's important to recall that Wayfair is backed by a billionaire, Steve Sorowit, who has plenty of money to throw at this, to throw out an excellent legal team to go after the New York Times. So I think we are buckled in and sat for a long, protracted fight because apparently this will be taken to court. They do not want to settle. They want all of the details aired out for the public.

[Chandler]

They want a jury.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So Justin and Wayfarer Studios claimed that the New York Times disregarded an abundance of evidence that contradicted Blake Lively's claims and exposed her true motives.

[Chandler]

This is where I just want to say things get very complicated and where I really still don't totally know when it comes to each of these points of the case, who I believe.

[Courtney]

You know, on this podcast, we talk a lot about the fallibility of the human mind. Okay. We explore all the time. We explore the followers of Mother God and Teal Swan and all of the. And nxivm and Keith Ranieri.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Courtney]

All these cults with. Where people really can be swayed by charismatic, controversial people, and where people really can be swayed by these charismatic people. And I think that's a little bit how I feel as I read each lawsuit where I'm like, when I'm reading Blake's lawsuit, I'm ready to lock up Justin and throw away the keys. And when I'm reading Justin's lawsuit, I. I'm like, blake is a fraud.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

This entire lawsuit is disingenuous and a complete farce. And the problem is, is that it seems like there's really evidence on both sides. So I think we need to get into Justin's evidence.

[Chandler]

Absolutely. So let's begin with some of the key allegations against the New York Times. So the first one is libel. The suit argues that the New York Times published a defamatory article, we can bury anyone inside a Hollywood smear machine. Based on manipulated evidence that falsely accused the plaintiffs of a retaliatory smear campaign against actress Blake Lively.

[Courtney]

Let me pull up the screenshots.

[Chandler]

I'll die because your iPad is upside down again. Lauren just turned her iPad right side up, so, you know she's been reading this whole thing upside down. Okay, so let's begin with libel. The lawsuit argues that the New York Times published a defamatory article entitled, we can bury anyone inside a Hollywood smear machine based on manipulated evidence that falsely accused the plaintiffs of a retaliatory smear campaign against Blake Lively.

[Courtney]

Justin suit essentially alleges that what they were doing was just trying to be on the defense in case she goes on the offense and tries to bury him essentially and tries to ruin his career by bringing up everything that went on on set. And I think what he's saying is like, and what you know is going to get illustrated is that they actually didn't do anything. All of this came about because of Blake's actions, but they were just ready to go with scenario planning and camera case. They felt that he was destroyed.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Courtney]

So I think one of the key pieces of evidence here is that article that says, could Blake Lively be canceled by the Daily Mail? So this was included in Blake's complaint where Melissa Nathan messages Jen Abel and she says she puts the link to the article. And Jen Abel says, wow, you really outdid yourself with this piece. Making it seem as though Melissa worked with the Daily Mail to get this article out saying Blake Lively was gonna be canceled. Well, what they redacted and didn't show was that the tone of these text messages was very lighthearted and joking, and it was sarcastic. And she says, so they take out an upside down smiley face after she says, you really outdid yourself with this piece. And then they take out. Melissa's response was, which is, that's why you hired me, right? I'm the best. Like, that's a joke.

[Chandler]

An upside down smiley face is sarcastic, Is. Yeah, it's a joke.

[Courtney]

And then they go on to keep joking about, like, her going to the airport and sorry, I'll be like, off for a minute. And she's like, we hired you to be on the clock all the time. You know, they're just, they're kidding. And, and she didn't actually plant this story. And so the New York Times is intentionally cherry picking in order to further Blake's narrative.

[Chandler]

Well, I think too, it's interesting because the New York Times mocked up their own text messages. It's not like they did, like, screenshots. So also in, in their correspondence, Jen says the Mail is going nuts. And then Melissa says, damn, this is unfair because it's also not me. Everything now looks like it's looks like it's me. Maybe not to you.

[Courtney]

So their internal correspondence is discussing how this is not them. And they're not even doing this. This is their internal private correspondence.

[Chandler]

They're talking about how the Daily Mail is going crazy. They're not Saying, like, that's very different. That definitely shows that that was not their plan. I think it also shows that they were very surprised at how this took off. Like wildfire.

[Courtney]

Right. And it seems like through a lot of these messages, they're amazed essentially at not their work being done for them, because she doesn't even want it to seem like they're doing this. They're almost a little panicked.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Cause it looks like they're doing this, but they're, like, just shocked at kind of how, like. Well, this goes for Justin just organically.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Courtney]

In the court of public opinion.

[Chandler]

Correct. Also, I don't know if we mentioned this, but Jennifer Abel is Baldoni's personal publicist, founder and CEO of RWA Communications, a public relations and communication communications services company. Okay, so the next one is promissory fraud, which asserts that the New York Times requested Wayfair's input and response to the queries under false pretenses. They promised fair treatment, but published the article before their response deadline. Basically, they said, here's the article we're releasing. I think they sent it to them at like, 9pm on a Friday night. And then they said, we're releasing it at noon tomorrow. But then it actually came out at 10, 11 in the morning. So they didn't, like, live up to what they said.

[Courtney]

I think it was 7pm was what I heard. But either way, it's like, you get. Get this the night before and it's coming out the next day at noon. Okay. But you might not even check your email, obviously, like, they did. But it's giving them next to no time to respond. Most of the time you should be sleeping. And then. I'm sorry. They posted the article nearly two hours before they said they would that critical time to read this huge article. Yeah. It's taken away from you.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, too, once again, he's suing the New York Times. So he's suing them for, like, some of their journalistic actions, which, you know, the promissory fraud.

[Courtney]

So the next one is breach of implied, in fact, contract. Baldoni argues that the journalistic standards and ethical practices were violated, leading to damaged reputation and financial losses. So now we're going to go over the key incidents involving Blake Lively mentioned in Justin's lawsuit. So the first is that allegedly Blake. Justin just, you know, she's hired as the lead, but she just tried to take over the entire production. So Blake insisted on full control over her character's wardrobe, bypassing the production's costume designer and demanding changes Outside her contractual authority, she reportedly insisted her character wear $5,000 shoes, which led to budget overruns. A confrontation between Lively and Justin Baldoni over wardrobe concerns was misrepresented in her complaint. Lively alleged that Baldoni made inappropriate comments on her appearance, while Baldoni claims that he was merely relay distributor concerns about audience expectations.

[Chandler]

Yeah, apparently, you know, Sony was upset or was worried that, you know, her character was not being received well or that the style on her character was not being received well. And he was just relaying that. Also, once again, he's not directly refuting a lot of the things that she's saying. He's just actually trying to provide, I think, more context on why they disagreed so much or why she was maybe, I'll use the word nightmare. Why she was maybe a nightmare to work with.

[Courtney]

Mm. Well, and it's, it's very clear that she did come in and took over its entire. Yeah, right, because there's all these text messages about, you know, with her giving very heavy handed input on how she wants the wardrobe to go down. She tries to get an executive or what's the credit she wants to get.

[Chandler]

Like she wanted to get. It's like an acronym, but it's basically like a producer credit that shows that you were the producer that actually like did the most. Okay, yeah, I forgot the APF or something. I don't know.

[Courtney]

So it's very clear that she tried to take over this entire product. Which brings us to the next point, which was script and creative changes. So Blake Lively allegedly rewrote her dialogue and made changes to the other characters lines, disrupting the production schedule. In an interview, after she claimed her husband, Ryan Reynolds, secretly wrote a key scene which blindsided the film's credited screenwriter and possibly violated SAG AFTRA policy regarding sex scene discussions, Lively reportedly remarked, I'd be mortified if that happened to me. When an intimacy coordinator suggested a certain creative direction, which Baldoni believes were taken out of context to imply misconduct, Baldoni alleged that at the All Hands meeting, Ly Reynolds berated him for making a reasonable inquiry about her weight during stunt planning, labeling it as fat shaming. The incident left Baldoni deeply shaken and worried about the professional repercussions.

[Chandler]

So continuing with, you know, Blake taking over with editing, Lively demanded access to the editing process, infringing on Baldoni's Directors Guild mandated protected period for creating his directors cut. So they initially agreed on two days. But then Lively's involvement extended to 10, during which she fired the film's editors and composer, replacing them with her own team of editors who frequently work with her husband. Two competing versions of the film were tested with audiences. We mentioned this before. Baldoni's version scored higher, but Lively insisted on her version's release, allegedly leveraging her influence to pressure Sony and Wayfarer into conceding.

[Courtney]

It's very interesting because if you really get into this lawsuit and you read his messages with the editors, it's, like, very sad to read their back and forth. Cause they just basically describe this film being ripped from them.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Courtney]

And Justin says in his messages, he's like, we just have to take the high road. It just seems like she is going to get exactly what she wants every step of the way. In the way that she took over her wardrobe, she's taking over the editing, she's taking over certain scenes. I mean, in what world is your husband, who's not even involved with this project, writing in secret a key scene?

[Chandler]

I think when you are a part of the Blake Lively Ryan Reynolds machine. I mean, I think that's another huge factor in this. That Ryan Reynolds has a ton of pull in Hollywood and that he's very powerful.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chandler]

And I'm sure that Justin Baldoni is a small fish compared to him.

[Courtney]

I mean, I can really understand how devastating this would be if you. You and your company had acquired the rights to this film. This was your project. I mean, as cringe as we find it, this is a cause he, in theory, cares a lot about. And then this actress just completely commandeers your entire project.

[Chandler]

Well, and I think some interesting context is that I'm sure that after a lot of stuff went down at the beginning of filming with. With everything that we now know about, maybe he was just like, I don't want that to come back and bite me in the ass. So I guess I'm just gonna, like, relinquish full control over this. You know, like, let the this go.

[Courtney]

Right. And that seems to be, as you read the correspondence, exactly what happened. Okay. So they also say that there were misrepresentations in public allegations. So in her complaint, Blake Lively accused Baldoni and Jamie Heath of inappropriate behavior, including entering her makeup trailer uninvited while she was breastfeeding or undressed. Baldoni and Wayfarer argued that these claims were false and distorted, noting that meetings in Lively's trailer were scheduled and consensual. So there's a text message between Justin and Blake that I'm sure we've all seen. And basically where Blake had said, you know, that he stormed into her trailer unannounced and she was breastfeeding and refused to leave or whatever. Really, what happened is in the text message Justin shows, she says, hey, I'm pumping, but feel free to come by and run lines.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

My theory on this is just because there was one time when she was pumping at 1am and he came by to run lines, and she invited him into her. Her infant was on set. It's hard for me to believe that her set of events didn't possibly happen where there was a moment when she was breastfeeding and he refused to leave.

[Chandler]

Well, and yeah, I think as well, maybe that moment happened where she said, feel free to come by. I'm just pumping. When things were still pretty good between the two of them and she felt more comfortable around him. Or before any of the other stuff, where he, like, dragged his lips across her neck and said, it smells so good. There might have come a point where she was like, I'm actually now uncomfortable with you.

[Courtney]

Right?

[Chandler]

Where he still thought it's okay for me to come into your trailer, where whatever she was like, actually, now you make me feel very uncomfortable.

[Courtney]

No, I think that's such a good point. There was also an exchange with Justin and Blake about her wardrobe adjustments. Lively apparently used the term sexy to describe her character's outfit. But when. When Baldoni later used the same term during creative discussions, Lively accused him of making her feel, quote, unsafe. So this is very interesting. I heard one story in her complaint, which was that she and the cast in, quote, were at a crowded bar, apparently, and she was wearing, like, a onesie with a blazer over it. And according to Blake, Justin allegedly asked her, like, encouraged her to remove her blazer. I think she implies that it was understood he wanted that because it would be more revealing, more of her breasts would be showing, more of her cleavage would be showing. And he said that it would be sexy and that she looked sexy. And she said, that's not what I'm going for. And it was a very weird moment where another female member of the crew or the cast privately told her, like, basically consoled her. And the moment where Blake described the wardrobe of Lily being sexy is really very different. You know, apparently there was, like, she had some scene where she was in, like, a cutoff shirt.

[Chandler]

I'll read it.

[Courtney]

Okay, go ahead.

[Chandler]

So why don't you pull up? Why don't you. Will you search. It ends with us. Beanie outfit. This is just the only moment where I would like to just. I want to just explain to you Lake Lively's creative direction with this outfit and why she believes it to be sexy. And then I also have a serious comment about the Justin Baldoni of it all. But I just want to take a minute for this beanie outfit because it's now immortalized in this lawsuit.

[Courtney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chandler]

So she said, we'll show you both ways, but beanie is much sexier. It's the look feels TV without, especially with a crop top in the snow. It justifies the rest of the skin. And also, as a girl, I would check out walking down the street because it washes the effort off the rest of the look.

[Courtney]

I'm.

[Chandler]

This is her mind. Her mind. Wow. Anyway, everyone, I just. We're talking about very serious stuff. I'm not trying to trivialize it, but this outfit is, to me, the furthest thing from sexy. But I appreciate the rationale that went into it on the mental gymnastics that went into it on her end.

[Courtney]

I am, for once speechless on this podcast when I look at this outfit. Shivam, please put this in so everyone can see who's watching the video. Shivam is our wonderful editor. Everybody, everyone.

[Chandler]

So this is what Justin says. Like, she used the word sexy.

[Courtney]

She.

[Chandler]

Like, we were okay to say things like that. I think is like, what he's getting at, right? These screenshots. But what I also think happened is I literally believe that Justin searched his text messages for the word sexy.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chandler]

And then was like, oh, wait, no, Blake Lively said sexy before, so it was fine. And, you know, I feel like there are two separate incidents being talked about here, but it sounds like happened at the bar is very inappropriate in my opinion.

[Courtney]

When I'm kind of reading through all of this, it seems like a lot of Justin's complaint or his lawsuit against the New York Times is it's giving some sort of explanation for as much as possible. Right. But I think bad behavior genuinely happened on both sides for sure. And there's a lot of bad behavior on his side that he just simply can't explain away.

[Chandler]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

Like talking about, ignoring. No. When women said they did not want to engage with him sexually talking.

[Chandler]

Blake, I'm sorry, I don't want to hear about any of my co workers pornography addictions.

[Courtney]

I also, if I have a deceased parent, don't want to hear about how they have just spoken with them. Correct. Especially when this is clearly a hostile work environment. And again, going back to Blake's list of demands, they all came out well before she was canceled. She had this documented experience of harassment before all of this drama went down. And in contrast his lawsuit feels very much reactionary to everything that happened.

[Chandler]

Right, right.

[Courtney]

Okay. So then there was the marketing takeover. So Blake Lively allegedly sidelined Baldoni and his team during the film's promotional campaign, steering the messaging away from its intended focus on domestic violence awareness. Lively reportedly barred Baldoni from the main premiere event, relegating him to a separate holding area. I saw someone online say this, and I definitely agree. We just need someone from Sony to say this was the marketing plan by Sony or this was the marketing plan by Blake that Sony agreed to. Because I just feel like that will clear this part up.

[Chandler]

Totally. Totally. And this part is. Honestly, I don't care about this part a ton. Like, I think this is where Justin's, like, rebuttal and lawsuit is sort of successful because he's kind of distracting people from the bigger crimes that I believe that he committed. You know, crimes is a strong word, but the bigger actions I think that are more damaged.

[Courtney]

On the flip side, though, even if Sony came out with a marketing plan that included not talking about domestic violence, really making a story of hope, that doesn't mean it's the time to make it a floral aesthetic, sartorial bonanza. That doesn't mean it's. It's the time to promote your haircut.

[Chandler]

Yeah, totally.

[Courtney]

And launch. That doesn't mean it's the time to promote your alcohol brand. Those were all decisions and severe miscalculations on the part of Blake Lively. So again, it's like we. I feel like we almost just keep coming back to, like, both are low key. Guilty. Yes.

[Chandler]

I think the actions that Justin Baldoni has allegedly committed are very serious and make women feel uncomfortable. And then I think there are the Blake Lively's and the Ryan Reynolds of Hollywood that are just powerhouses who maybe just will come into a set and do exactly what they want.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chandler]

And to me, those are just like two different types of people.

[Courtney]

Two different types of people that are very difficult to work with.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Courtney]

You know, it's for different reasons. Right. And if I had to diagnose it, I would say Justin Baldoni clearly has a serious issues. And I think Blake Lively has her own serious issues.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And here I guess what I will say is I'd rather work with someone who's. If I had to choose between the two of them, someone who has bad style and someone who's like a steamrolling boss, maybe a nightmare to work with, versus a guy who makes me feel uncomfortable and unsafe.

[Courtney]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it bears repeating that there's been a ton of support for Blake. So Colleen Hoover posted on Instagram, calling Blake honest, kind, supportive and patient. Robin Lively, her sister, posted to her stories. All of the girls from this. From the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants have come out and support Kate Beckinsale, Gwyneth Paltrow, Amy Schumer. Okay.

[Chandler]

Also, Jenny Slate, her co star, expressed solidarity, saying the smear campaign was terribly dark, disturbing, and wholly threatening. I feel like there's a lot of correspondence that maybe is worth talking about between his team.

[Courtney]

Like internally about her.

[Chandler]

Internally about her. Some of it's positive, some of it's them just expressing, you know, I don't know, like.

[Courtney]

Well, yeah, but apart from all the support from Blake, I think that the problem is that there really is some compelling evidence on Justin's side. And if this feels a little bit like whiplash as we're discussing this, everyone, it feels like that for us too.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Courtney]

Because of the validity we feel on both sides.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Courtney]

You can see messages, internal communications between Justin and other executives at Wayfair where there's a positive headline about Blake and they say that's great, like she deserves this win. It'd be great if a Sony executive could come out in support of Justin or praise Justin publicly, but it's great for her to have this win. It seems like in their communications, they weren't trying to engage in a smear campaign. They were just trying to be defensive of Justin. And they were a lot more balanced in their treatment of Blake and in the way they even talked about her privately.

[Chandler]

Right. Than what the New York Times alleges.

[Courtney]

Right, exactly.

[Chandler]

I think with this case, and this might sound like a non answer answer, but I think there's a lot that is in the gray and then there is like some very few things that are totally black and white.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Well, I feel like with that, whatever the truth, whatever the truth, we wanted to present you with a as comprehensive as possible recap of this. Not a huge 10 part series. Some other amazing podcasters have been doing that. So if you want to get like way deeper in, this would encourage you to seek those out. I know that not everyone wants this to become an It Ends With Us podcast. So we're probably gonna move on to other programming next week.

[Chandler]

I'm ready.

[Courtney]

Yeah. If there are big breaks in the story, of course we're gonna cover it. I'm glad we've had the chance to discuss it. And we've just tried to be. Be as fair and balanced, but also as appropriately judgy as possible.

[Chandler]

Right, of course. Thank you so much for listening. We love you, listeners, and we will be back.

[Courtney]

Thank you so much, everyone. Bye.