258: What Really Happened at Diddy’s Freak Offs? Diving Deeper into the Secret Hollywood Underworld ft. Beyond the Blinds

Summary

Pop Apologists Episode 258 Summary: "What Really Happened at Diddy’s Freak Offs? Diving Deeper into the Secret Hollywood Underworld ft. Beyond the Blinds"

Release Date: January 29, 2025

In this compelling episode of Pop Apologists, host Troy welcomes special guests Kelly and Troy from the podcast Beyond the Blinds. Together, they delve into the murky depths of Hollywood’s underbelly, focusing particularly on the controversial figure Sean "Diddy" Combs and the alleged criminal activities surrounding his infamous "freak offs."

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with a light-hearted banter about celebrity relationships, transitioning quickly into the serious topic at hand: Sean "Diddy" Combs. Courtney, another guest from Beyond the Blinds, sets the stage by outlining Diddy's federal indictment, which includes severe charges such as sex trafficking, forced labor, kidnapping, arson, bribery, and obstruction of justice.

Quote:

• Troy (00:42): "There is a lot, I think, that we don't know about Sean Diddy Combs."

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2. Diddy's Troubled Childhood and Its Impact

Kelly and Courtney explore Diddy’s early life, highlighting the traumatic loss of his father, who was reportedly killed by a gang after inadvertently informing an undercover officer. This absence of a paternal figure, coupled with a household rife with illicit activities and sexual desensitization, is posited as a catalyst for Diddy's later behaviors.

Quote:

• Kelly (03:09): "He lost his dad in such a violent way, and it's like, violence that he then went on to kind of participate in himself."

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3. Clive Davis and the Influence on Diddy

The discussion shifts to Clive Davis, a monumental figure in the music industry, and his relationship with Diddy. The hosts recount the tragic night Whitney Houston died in Diddy's home, emphasizing Davis's controversial behavior during the crisis. Clive Davis allegedly prioritized the Grammy party over the immediate medical attention Whitney needed, painting a picture of a man deeply entwined in the industry's darker aspects.

Quotes:

• Kelly (07:00): "He has a party for the Grammys underneath her corpse. She wasn't even taken out of the hotel."
• Courtney (08:34): "It ties to the Cassie of it all. Because he would ask Cassie to do stuff like that."

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4. The Dark Side of Hollywood: Grooming and Abuse

Courtney and Kelly draw parallels between Diddy and other notorious figures like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein, discussing the pervasive abuse within Hollywood. They argue that the music industry, much like the film industry, is rife with grooming young talents and exploiting them for personal gain.

Quotes:

• Courtney (10:10): "The music industry is run on slave contracts. They make these, like, crazy slave contracts where these kids are owned and made owners of their business and their music."
• Kelly (12:10): "Sometimes it takes us time to catch up to things that maybe we already know or feel comfortable talking about."

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5. Alleged 'Freak Offs' and Systemic Abuse

The core of the episode focuses on the alleged "freak offs"—exclusive parties hosted by Diddy characterized by extreme abuse, sexual exploitation, and illegal activities. The guests describe these gatherings as orchestrated environments where attendees are drugged, disoriented, and coerced into non-consensual acts.

Quotes:

• Courtney (20:48): "During these parties, Diddy and his friends would have their own alcohol and supply others with drugs that impaired their ability to make decisions."
• Kelly (25:05): "I call Diddy a mob boss that moonlights as a musician."

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6. The Role of Law Enforcement and Media

The conversation touches on the complicity and negligence of law enforcement officials, suggesting that certain officers were either bribed or fearful of Diddy’s influence to overlook or silence the crimes occurring at these parties. Additionally, the media’s role in either perpetuating or ignoring these abuses is critiqued.

Quotes:

• Courtney (18:32): "At these alleged freak offs, he would have the LAPD there to be like, and if you go tell anyone, no one's gonna listen."
• Kelly (19:53): "He told her to go fuck herself."

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7. Comparisons with Other Industry Abusers

Troy and the guests compare Diddy’s actions with those of other industry abusers, noting the unique breadth and severity of Diddy's alleged crimes. They also discuss how figures like Jay Z and Clive Davis are implicated or shielded within the industry’s power structures.

Quotes:

• Courtney (49:32): "Jay Z is really lucky he has Beyonce to hide behind."
• Chandler (50:17): "The letter was very clearly like, post like, the Shining."

---

8. The Perils of Child Stardom

A significant portion of the discussion is dedicated to the exploitation of child stars in Hollywood. The hosts highlight how young talents are groomed, manipulated, and forced into exploitative situations, often at the expense of their mental health and personal development.

Quotes:

• Kelly (37:24): "The music industry is run on slave contracts."
• Courtney (38:09): "You start to really realize why these child stars a lot of times go off the deep end."

---

9. Future Implications and Diddy’s Trial

Looking forward, the guests express hope for Diddy’s trial to uncover further truths and hold more perpetrators accountable. However, they also express skepticism about systemic changes within Hollywood, fearing that many abusers remain unpunished.

Quotes:

• Kelly (53:13): "I hope that he rats out everybody."
• Chandler (53:36): "My conspiracy brain thinks that he would be, like, killed in prison before that."

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10. Concluding Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a rapid-fire segment where the guests speculate on other potential industry figures involved in abuse and their hope for a broader reckoning within Hollywood. They emphasize the desperate need for systemic change to protect vulnerable individuals from exploitation.

Quotes:

• Courtney (54:01): "People are making this into a meme and a joke when it's not fucking funny."
• Chandler (54:29): "We can only hope to know everyone who's involved and hope to see them behind bars."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Troy (00:42): "There is a lot, I think, that we don't know about Sean Diddy Combs."
• Kelly (03:09): "He lost his dad in such a violent way, and it's like, violence that he then went on to kind of participate in himself."
• Kelly (07:00): "He has a party for the Grammys underneath her corpse. She wasn't even taken out of the hotel."
• Courtney (10:10): "The music industry is run on slave contracts."
• Courtney (20:48): "During these parties, Diddy and his friends would have their own alcohol and supply others with drugs that impaired their ability to make decisions."
• Kelly (25:05): "I call Diddy a mob boss that moonlights as a musician."
• Courtney (38:09): "You start to really realize why these child stars a lot of times go off the deep end."
• Kelly (53:13): "I hope that he rats out everybody."
• Courtney (54:01): "People are making this into a meme and a joke when it's not fucking funny."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Pop Apologists serves as a stark exposé on the alleged criminal activities of Sean "Diddy" Combs and the broader issues of abuse and exploitation within Hollywood’s music industry. Through detailed discussions, the guests from Beyond the Blinds shed light on systemic problems, urging listeners to demand accountability and protection for vulnerable individuals in the entertainment world.

For those seeking to understand the complexities and dark secrets of Hollywood, this episode provides a thorough and eye-opening analysis.

Transcript

[Kelly]

Even just, like, the way Beyonce writes about him, I think that she still sees him a certain way. He has, like, that 90s glow about him still.

[Troy]

To her, he's the David Foster to her, Katherine McPhee. Wow.

[Chandler]

Finally someone said it.

[Kelly]

Finally. Record the time and date.

[Troy]

Well, well, well. We are gathered here today, joined by the hosts of beyond the Blinds. Kelly and Troy. Thank you so much for joining us for a very special episode to unf. Unpack all things Sean Diddy Combs.

[Chandler]

Sean Combs.

[Troy]

Puff Daddy Diddy Love or whatever.

[Chandler]

Daddy Bad Boy.

[Troy]

There is a lot, I think, that we don't know about Sean Diddy Combs. Okay. And I mean, is it Sean Diddy Combs?

[Kelly]

It's whatever. It's really whatever you want it to be.

[Chandler]

Is it? Oh, I didn't realize. Is Diddy a real part of his name? I thought it was a nickname.

[Courtney]

Well, yeah, but he goes by that.

[Chandler]

Got it.

[Courtney]

It's like Colin, Jennifer.

[Chandler]

Like Diddy's on his birth certificate.

[Kelly]

No, no. Sean Combs. Sean Combs is his legal name.

[Chandler]

Got it. Okay.

[Kelly]

But he's gone by many, many different names, as narcissists tend to do.

[Chandler]

Right. We're starting at the very beginning, everybody. We're starting at what is on the birth certificate.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Troy]

I think we have a lot of questions about what exactly he did, how he became the person he became. And we put out a call out on our Instagram, and we were flooded with questions. So I think what we are doing is bringing on two experts. Troy and Kelly. You guys have unpacked the entire Diddy case on your podcast. You recapped the Peacock documentary on your Patreon. I've heard it's an incredible episode. So I feel like you guys are the perfect experts to come on and solve these mysteries with us. Right.

[Courtney]

Well, thank you.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Thank you for having us. We're excited to be back.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Troy]

You're welcome. Okay, so this is what Diddy is charged with. According to the federal indictment, Holmes, along with other members and associates of his enterprise, committed crimes including sex trafficking, forced labor, kidnapping, arson, bribery, and obstruction of justice. So before we get to his crimes, I would love to start at the very beginning, which is his childhood. You know what made Diddy the person he is today? I watched the Peacock documentary, and I was struck by the fact that he really grew up without a father. His dad was a gangster who unwittingly gave information to an undercover police officer about the gang. He was a. And then it's thought that he was killed by that Gang. Right. He was shot in his car. So a very, very sad, tragic story of no parental father figure. And then another thing in the documentary that struck me was he grew up in a house where there was a lot of illicit activity. It seems like there was a boy his age, and he's interviewed on the documentary that lived with them, and he said, you know, you would walk into a room and you would see two naked adults. So he said that there was definitely some desensitization happening for them as young kids. So I'm curious if you guys have any, you know, input on his childhood and how that shaped him.

[Kelly]

I mean, this is like, a weird, like, niche obsession of mine is, like, discovering, like, the root of people's trauma. I get, like, kind of in the weeds about that sometimes. Like, obsessive. But, yeah, like, his childhood, I think, is so interesting because he. He lost his dad in such a violent way, and it's like, violence that he then went on to kind of participate in himself. And then as far as his mom, I think, yeah, there was, like, a total desensitization of, like, sexuality, drug use, fluidity, just all of it. You know, like, he was kind of, like, brainwashed as a kid to think that all of the things he does now is okay.

[Troy]

Mm. So his music producer, Rodney Littlerod Jones, he claimed that Diddy showed him a videotape of two men hooking up, essentially a porn, and was like, this is what you have to do to make it in the music industry. So part of me wonders if he ever had that experience where, like, someone told him that this is just the way the world operates. And if you're born in an environment where you see all this stuff happening, you know, you have the tragic passing of your dad by murder. It's just such an alternate universe to the one we're especially used to inhabiting, having grown up in a very conservative Mormon upbringing with very serious moral rules. So, anyway, yeah, I'm just. I'm pretty fascinated by that idea.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I think when it comes to Hollywood, not in every aspect, but sex is power.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I don't think it matters if you're homosexual, if you're fluid, if you're whatever. I think just sex is power. And it's almost like you have to, like, pay that.

[Kelly]

Like, your dues.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Pay your dues in order to get to where you need to be. And that might mean sleeping with a man, even if you're not into that.

[Kelly]

And to your point, people have always said the rumor has always been that, yeah, he Was kind of. It's like he's this monster, this big monster, but he's not the biggest monster. He was taught to be a monster by the bigger monsters, the people above him, you know, that gave him record deals and things.

[Troy]

Right, right.

[Kelly]

You know, gave him bad boy, you know, allegedly.

[Courtney]

Clive Davis.

[Kelly]

Clive Davis. Kalkoff.

[Chandler]

I mean, you know, talk about Clive Davis, because as a person who listened to the episode and watched the documentary, I didn't know anything about Clive Davis. I didn't know who this guy is. That's my own, you know, I was just an idiot. Didn't know about how, you know, what a legend he was.

[Kelly]

Not an idiot.

[Courtney]

No.

[Chandler]

But yeah, please talk about him showing your youth. Yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

You're just a young, beautiful girl.

[Courtney]

I feel like Troy explains the night that Whitney passed away so well, and he paints the picture so well of why Clive Davis is an actual alleged piece of shit.

[Kelly]

I mean, it does give a good sort of well rounded idea of him, I suppose.

[Troy]

Okay.

[Kelly]

But yeah, so Clive Davis is like the biggest person in music. I'm just like the one. He is like, he's the bowser of the music industry.

[Chandler]

I mean, I'm sure I'd heard his name before this, before listening to your episode, but I had no clue who the man was.

[Courtney]

He's always, like, thanked during the Grammys.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Kelly]

Yeah, he's big behind the scenes.

[Chandler]

Yeah, right.

[Kelly]

He's not like out there tapping his. He's like 90 years old.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

I mean, if you've probably seen him and thought that he. He was just some rickety old man, like auditioning for the live action Mr. Burns, like the Simpsons. But like, so Clive is like, he's known for discovering Whitney Houston. He's like a prolific figure in the music industry and he's very, very closely tied to Diddy. And just to kind of give you an idea of his character, the night that Whitney Houston died, mind you, he discovered her as a little girl. He was with her throughout her entire life. He put her in rehabs, got her out of rehabs. They had their best and worst moments together. He watched her have a child, get married.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

This is a woman he's known since she was a little girl. Her father figures. She calls him dad.

[Troy]

Wow.

[Kelly]

Her daughter calls him dad, like Grandpa or whatever.

[Troy]

Wow.

[Kelly]

She dies in a hotel in a bathtub, and he has a party for the Grammys underneath her corpse. She wasn't even taken out of the hotel. And the press, every celebrity that came knew that she was above them dead. That Whitney Houston was dead above them while they're like, drinking champagne. He chose to have the party and the press was like, why are you doing this? Like, isn't Whitney Houston dead two floors up? And he said that she would want the night to continue. That's the kind of person, huh? Yeah.

[Chandler]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. So she like, she overdosed, right? That was like how she passed away, how she died.

[Courtney]

There's a lot of.

[Chandler]

Okay, okay.

[Courtney]

If you do like a deep dive in Whitney and like, she had scratches on her. Like, there's a lot of weird stuff, Interesting bruises. Yeah.

[Chandler]

Okay, so she like, passes and how. I guess, like, did the party happen hours later or was it. Was it going on and then she passed away and he just kept it going?

[Kelly]

No, it happened hours later. What? Celebrities were arriving and giving interviews about what they thought of Whitney Houston's death.

[Troy]

On the way to the party.

[Kelly]

On the way to the party, and she's still upstairs in the bathtub. Like, Chaka Khan is, like, talking about Whitney's legacy as she's upstairs and that's her friend. And all these people are like, at this party while she's upstairs. And he raised her.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And that's how little he thought of her. Wow. Yeah.

[Troy]

It's just so interesting, the idea that you would have a very personal friend die and not be like, okay, well, the party's over. Like, no, I don't. No one feels like doing this anymore, let alone the body is upstairs.

[Courtney]

Right, Right.

[Troy]

And you're like, time to pop the dom. What?

[Kelly]

It's unimaginable. Honestly, it's so dark.

[Courtney]

Also, he's known cause Kelly Clarkson slapped him.

[Troy]

Oh, really?

[Chandler]

No way.

[Kelly]

She hates her. Kelly Clarkson hates him.

[Courtney]

Openly hates him. Her album My December is like a fuck you to Clive Davis.

[Troy]

Really?

[Kelly]

He's evil.

[Chandler]

Wow. Okay, so back to Diddy, though. But he was like a part of Diddy's origin story as well in the music industry.

[Courtney]

He gave Diddy, what, 50 million DOL. Or something like that? Like 55 million.

[Kelly]

And Diddy was like very young. What did they say he was? 23, something like that, or 22 or something. And yeah, he was like, here's $50 million and a record label.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Troy]

So is there any theory that Diddy participated in the freak offs before the freak offs? Before they were named freak offs? With there's theory, you know, a big head honcho. I won't even say the name the pre freak off. Everyone else can deduce who we're talking about because I really want to Be careful. But wow, that. That is so horrifying.

[Kelly]

Yeah. It just tells you everything that you need to know about him, you know.

[Courtney]

And we always say, like, we need a MeToo movement for the music industry because that's so, like, that hasn't been unearthed at all of how disgusting the music industry is.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Troy]

What do you think is left to uncover? Or what do you think people don't know about how dark the music industry is?

[Courtney]

I mean, if you just look at managers like Diddy, like Lou Perlman, like Chris Stokes, you know, it's all these major people who abused these giant, giant stars. And that's just what we know. I can't imagine what happened to a band like Dream, who was under Diddy or 3Lw, who was managed by Chris Stokes. You know, it makes you wonder why Ashanti isn't as big as she should be. I don't know. It just leaves more questions than answers, for sure.

[Chandler]

What do you think is holding us back from having that MeToo moment? Is it like, the big players are still in the game, are still, like, too powerful to be taken down?

[Courtney]

I think it's just so connected, like, with the. With movies, you could at least say Harvey, like Figurehead, you know, and of course, that trickled down to other directors, as it should, of course. But I don't know. I think there are too many Harveys in the music industry.

[Kelly]

Wow.

[Chandler]

Wow.

[Troy]

I always think about allegedly.

[Courtney]

Allegedly. Allegedly.

[Troy]

Yeah. I just think about, you know, we know of Harvey Weinstein, we know of Jeffrey Epstein. I didn't realize those names really sound alike until just this moment. We know about P. Diddy, but who else do we not know about, you know, who else is operating these sex trafficking rings just right under people's noses?

[Kelly]

Right. That's what's so scary. And also, I just think, like, sometimes it takes us time to, like, catch up to things that maybe we already know or, like, feel comfortable talking about. And with me, too, that was something that felt even though it was so disgusting and what was going on was so vile. It was like being able to wrap your head around this big, gross guy having all this power and trying to sleep with beautiful ingenue actresses. That's something people can wrap their heads around. But the Diddy stuff, I almost feel like it took years for us to get here where we can even have conversations like this.

[Troy]

Right.

[Kelly]

Cause to think that all of these male celebrities are doing this stuff and participating in this stuff, it forces people to kind of have to accept a lot of things that they maybe were not comfortable accepting.

[Chandler]

And I think there's another, darker level to it of underage child abuse that just feels just so unbelievably horrifying that people we have loved and listened to their music and just totally adored in culture were doing the most heinous things possible.

[Troy]

Yeah. It's like the sheer range of crimes from P. Diddy is really what seems to be so, so different from Harvey Weinstein, where, like you said, it makes sense at Tracks that an older perverted guy wants to sleep with the ingenues to make them stars. That just whatever. We've heard that story before. Yeah, but with P. Diddy, it's like, no, we have the idea that he potentially, you know, was involved in murder, that he was involved with children. All this underage stuff, the breadth of it is really astonishing.

[Kelly]

And like the male R and B stars that have their whole. Their whole careers hinge on being seducing women, you know, and then it's like there's just like this rug pulled under from everybody. And it also forces people that aren't comfortable talking about this stuff in the industry to have to talk about it.

[Troy]

Yeah, it's such an interesting point. Like the idea that, you know, actors used to stay in the closet. Cause no one would. Wouldn't believe them in a role that was between, you know, a man and a woman if they knew the actor was gay. There's just like this parallel happen where they don't want this stuff to come out because then maybe they're not gonna believe their music. That's all about pussy, right?

[Kelly]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Wow.

[Kelly]

I like hearing you say the. I call it the P word. That was like, really?

[Courtney]

Say it again.

[Kelly]

I'm turned on.

[Chandler]

I don't think you've ever said that before in a podcast in years.

[Courtney]

We bring that out in people.

[Kelly]

You saying that word with this look right now. My hair was just like a lot for me.

[Chandler]

You leaned into the mic too.

[Kelly]

Do I like women?

[Troy]

Just felt apropos. Excuse me. No, I mean, it's just so crazy. Okay, so there was what went down in 19? Chandler's like, leaning.

[Chandler]

I'm like going to drop it again.

[Troy]

No, no, but okay, so let me see here. It's 2025.

[Chandler]

2025 is upon us. We are all ready to get in shape, feel good, and to use mom's words, hit the ground running. Hit the ground running on our self improvement. And let's start with getting a little more protein in.

[Troy]

How about that?

[Chandler]

Sounds great. Let's do it.

[Troy]

The easiest way to consume more Protein is through using cleanse and bleats either. They're gorgeous protein powders which taste like a Wendy's frosty when blended with just ice and water. It's impeccable.

[Chandler]

And if you're not in the mood for a protein shake, their clear protein are delicious. I love it with a lot of ice. My favorite flavor is the orange.

[Troy]

I love the prickly pear. I'm such a huge fan of the clear protein. Courtney has cases always at the ready. Now at her house, she's a huge fan, you guys. You have to go to cleansome bleeds.com check out the clear protein. Check out their protein powders. Let's put on some muscle. Let's get stronger.

[Chandler]

Let's get stronger together. 2025.

[Troy]

Hashtag stronger together. Chandler. Thank you for that, everyone. Go to cleansupolites.com use code popapologist for 10 off. That's cleansimpleats.com code popapologists for 10 off. It's 2025 and a lot of us are doing dry January. But I have thought of a genius loophole.

[Chandler]

Okay?

[Troy]

If anyone needs to let out some.

[Chandler]

Steam, please tell me. I'm dying to know this genius secret you have.

[Troy]

It's half an early bird CBD gummy or a hole if you really want to get crazy. These gummies, they make you feel a little warm. They make you feel a little melty. They just slap, sister.

[Chandler]

These gummies are incredible. I reach for them over a glass of wine. They're just the perfect way to take the edge off, you guys.

[Troy]

You have to try early bird CBD gummies. We're all trying to drink less alcohol, be healthier, and this is a great way of still getting to have your fun in the process. Go to early birdcbd.com use code pop20 for 20 off. That is a lot, everyone.

[Chandler]

Also, don't forget they have the nifty travel packs. So you know, if you're new to early bird CBD and you just want to give it a try, you can pick up the travel packs to see what you like.

[Troy]

Early bird cbd.com use code pop20 for 20% off. There was what allegedly went down with Jennifer Lopez at the club, right? It was December 27, 1999, and they were at this club and apparently he had like a bad altercation with a drug dealer. Natanya Rubin alleged that she saw P. Diddy, grabbed a gun during this altercation and shot. And she was shot during this. It's just utterly mind blowing.

[Kelly]

I think she was shot in her Face.

[Troy]

Are you for real?

[Kelly]

Yeah. That poor woman.

[Chandler]

Didn't they say that potentially JLO handed.

[Courtney]

Him the gun or hid it. Either handed it or hid it.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Which, you know. Yeah. I find it so interesting. That wasn't in the doc, but our Patreon members were like. Cause it's probably in the court. It's probably gonna be like in the lawsuit.

[Kelly]

And it ties to the Cassie of it all. Because he would ask Cassie to do stuff like that.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

To like, go into places and put his gun, like, in her purse because it was easy for her to like, smuggle it in places. Right.

[Courtney]

And he would do that with his employees even. He'd have them all wearing fanny packs full of drugs around his house. And that's not. Or that's alleged, I guess. Cause it was in the Mr. Jones lawsuit. But it's. So he didn't have drugs on him, but he could get it no matter what.

[Chandler]

Right. So that he was still untouchable.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Troy]

There was also when they left the club, apparently they were in this car with this driver, and they tried to bribe the driver with $50,000 to say that the gun was his. So, you know, just, I guess, making everyone complicit in their crimes around them. And I think that, you know, there's really this situation where a lot of these employees are basically, like, coerced into doing illegal activities or losing their job. And probably not just facing the loss of a job, but retribution that could be far worse because they know too much.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I mean, ye. I think what says it all is at these alleged freak offs, he would have the LAPD there to be like, and if you go tell anyone, no one's gonna listen. Look who's surrounding you right now.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And Dawn Richards, she's from Danity Kane. So in her lawsuit, she said that he basically tricked her into coming to one of those parties and he wanted her to see everything. Like, he wanted her to understand what she was gonna be forced to participate in. And the cops were there and he was like, looking at her and looking at the cops, basically trying to say, like, you can tell whoever you want. It doesn't really matter. The cops are literally here.

[Courtney]

The dawn lawsuit is incredible. Like, I'm so proud of her for speaking out.

[Kelly]

Yeah. It's intense.

[Troy]

So do you think that he. Obviously, the entire lapd didn't know about this, but he just had some officers who knew about it who were being paid off, probably, and at these parties and made everyone feel completely powerless who were involved?

[Courtney]

Right. I mean, tmz pays the lapd.

[Chandler]

Really?

[Courtney]

I mean, the pictures of Kobe.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Remember?

[Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Courtney]

So like tmz. That's how TMZ gets all their. Allegedly gets all their information. I'm just, like, saying the craziest thing. I'm so sorry.

[Troy]

I love it.

[Kelly]

Also, they talked in the Peacock Doc about that sheriff that came to his house and was like, after that girl had been assaulted, she, like, ran and the sheriff came and he was like, find your own way home. Nobody cares. Like, figure it out.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Kelly]

You know, he literally told her basically to like, go fuck herself.

[Troy]

The sheriff?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Troy]

Okay. This is gonna betray my ignorance about how law enforcement works and their hierarchies, but is there one sheriff in LA like, the sheriff?

[Kelly]

I don't. Unless his name is Dewey. Unless it's the Scream universe, I'm not really sure.

[Chandler]

I think you're one of LA County Sheriffs. He's an LA County Sheri.

[Troy]

Okay.

[Chandler]

I think so.

[Troy]

Okay. Well, it makes me feel a little bit less back.

[Chandler]

I think there's like, the chief of police, maybe. I know nothing about the subject. I'm just literally riffing.

[Courtney]

I only know what I know from like, Law and Order.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kelly]

You're like, there's three cops, One of them is iced tea.

[Courtney]

Olivia Benson is so good.

[Kelly]

Yeah, Everything ties up at the end, usually.

[Troy]

What do you think actually happened at a freak off? Like, how did this go down? Well, you guys were the extra.

[Chandler]

Paint a picture. Go ahead.

[Courtney]

I mean, I think it would start by, okay, all this. This is alleged. Everything we're about to say is alleged. But I think it started as a normal party. And during these parties, Diddy and his friends would have their own alcohol and supplying all the others with a different kind of alcohol that's laced with a drug. And it'll be a drug that'll get you going. And just from there it became these women and men and they weren't able to make their own decisions. And it would kind of seem like they just pull all these people onto a bed and just have like massive orgies covered in baby oil. So even that it's like harder to like run away if you're covered in this oil, you know?

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I also think it's important to note too, like, because people keep being like, oh, here's a picture of Rosario Dawson at a date party. She was involved. And like, here's a picture of so and so or whatever. And like, I think it's important to know that there's parties and then there's the after party. And then there's the after party of the after party. Diddy's real freak offs weren't happening until the wee hours of the morning.

[Troy]

Like 4am yeah.

[Kelly]

The party with Kelly Osborne and Howard Stern was not, maybe, probably not the freak off.

[Troy]

Right.

[Kelly]

That's the white party. That's the one that Rolling Stone is photographing and MTV is at. You know what I mean?

[Troy]

My guess is the freak offs didn't even happen at those white parties, period. You know? Cause it's just too many people of note there.

[Chandler]

Or it was just like. Yeah. Way later. I think it was like the run of show was like, white party starts at 5, 6. And then everyone's hyped up on drugs, so you can stay up forever. And, you know, things really don't start going south in a really horrific way until the wee hours in the morning.

[Courtney]

I think one thing that I read that allegedly happened at these parties that really, like, shocked me was that he would also dehydrate people. Like, he'd turn the heat up really, really high, and everyone would just be not only like, drugged out of their mind, but also, like, dehydrated and like. Like in really bad shape.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Troy]

It's the level of intoxication that you hear about from the victims that really seems scary. It seems like they take a few sips of whatever this substance was. It probably was G is my guess. What's. What's G? It's basically was, like, what they use for, like, Quaaludes.

[Chandler]

Okay, okay.

[Troy]

It's like something that just makes you just immediately extremely drunk.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Troy]

And passive. And I've never tried it. I'm just allegedly. No, no, no. Just. I just know about it because I've been reading about Diddy, but essentially. Okay, so like, Nikki. Nikki Keating or Nikki Heating. Excuse me. I'm mispronouncing her name, but I saw her. Her YouTube video about this or her TikTok. And anyway, she said that she was doing music with Diddy, and I believe Kanye and she and her manager at the time were there. They're currently in a lawsuit con. This manager is suing Kanye for this. But she says that they were both handed drinks and, like, instructed to drink. By the way, this is like a work environment. This is not a party. She has a weird feeling, doesn't the manager? Does. Apparently Kanye or Diddy lunged at her, like, tried to get her to disrobe. She ran towards the door, but she saw her manager go from, like, completely alert and normal to just not well at all and, like, sliding off her seat, essentially, just like, not. Did not have her whereabouts or wits about her. And the manager, you know, is alleging that she was assaulted in that event. So it just seemed like whatever they were slipping, people just worked very quickly.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I also heard a story from. I want to say he was like, a male model or something, and he was talking about his experience at, like, Hollywood sex parties, basically, that he would go to all the time. And he had said that he was basically warned about lube, that some of the lube would be drugged, and then some of it would be.

[Troy]

And it would absorb into your skin.

[Kelly]

And it would absorb into your body and make you immediately drunk and just horny and full black snake moan. Christina Ricci. And he accidentally used the drug lube. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And felt that immediately. Like, what is going on?

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

You know.

[Troy]

Wow.

[Chandler]

I mean, it's all horrifying, but that is so scary.

[Kelly]

I know.

[Chandler]

To just. All of a sudden, your body is. You're just not in control, like, at all. Yeah.

[Kelly]

And you're at, like, a mob. I mean, I call Diddy a mob. I call him Tony Soprano.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kelly]

I think that he's a mob boss that moonlights as a musician. He just so happens to be good at remixing old songs, but at the end of the day, he's a mob boss, you know?

[Chandler]

Absolutely.

[Troy]

Hiding in plain sight.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Troy]

Crystal McKinney is one of the women who filed the lawsuit against Diddy right after Cassie. And she said she met him when she was 22 at Fashion Week. She said that Diddy took her back to his studio where people were drinking and smoking weed, and she took a hit from the bong, thinking it was marijuana, but apparently it was marijuana laced with an extremely powerful drug. And she remembers him forcing her to perform oral sex. And then all she remembers is waking up in a taxi home.

[Chandler]

Oh, my God.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I fully believe these women. You know, I fully believe anyone who's willing to step up and talk about Diddy and, like, the power he has even though he's in prison, like, he still obviously has so much power, like, on the outside. Like, I fully believe everything that these women are saying. And young men, too, like, and the men that are coming forward.

[Troy]

Yeah, of course. It's like, people say, oh, it's a cash grab, you know? Okay. Really? You're gonna now just go back and make up this story?

[Courtney]

Right.

[Kelly]

And basically ruin your.

[Troy]

Yeah, right.

[Courtney]

One of the quotes from the DOC that I think about a lot, it was one of the defense attorneys. She was Saying she's like, if you're a woman and you come out and speak against Diddy, it doesn't matter if you had a career. You're just known as the woman who's accusing Diddy.

[Troy]

Wow.

[Courtney]

Which is so true, Aubrey. Yeah. And Cassie, even, you know, Cassie's now known as Diddy's ex girlfriend, not as being one of the biggest artists to come from MySpace.

[Troy]

Right.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I wanna talk about Kim Porter. Can we get into, like, the origin story there? And then I also wanna talk about Cassie after that.

[Kelly]

Sure.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like Diddy saw Kim, who at the time was dating Al B. Sure. I'll be sure. You said I can't, like, say it.

[Troy]

Right.

[Kelly]

I'll be sure.

[Chandler]

Al B.

[Courtney]

Sure. And he wanted Kim. He wanted to be with Kim. And I think he did not want Kim to really have any relationships, whether it's friendships or anything outside of him. And, yeah, he kind of wanted to, like, mold her into what he thought was the perfect woman.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Yeah. It seems like it was like an obsession. Like an obsessive, narcissistic, very Kanye.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Vibes. You know, it's funny how narcissists kind of have, like, the same core, but then. Or like, Hugh Hefner, you know, creating, like, his idea of, like, what a woman should be kind of thing.

[Troy]

No, you're so right. I remember they talked about how he would, like, fly out, glam for her wherever they were. And it just. It. It's giving Kanye with Kim. It's giving Hugh Hefner. The girls have to be a certain platinum blonde. They have to have a certain tit size. Like, it is just. They are so maniacal about how they want, you know, their women to present themselves.

[Chandler]

Because it's not about the woman being an individual. It's about. It's a reflection of them.

[Kelly]

Absolutely.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Troy]

Also, I think it's very creepy how much Cassie and Kim Porter look alike. You know, I feel like they have such a similar beautiful look.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Troy]

But no, the story of Kim Porter is really, really terrifying. Do you think there was any influence involvement with him and her untimely death? I mean, pneumonia at 47 is strange.

[Courtney]

Yeah, you said it.

[Kelly]

It's weird.

[Courtney]

Yeah, it is.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And it's weird. People drop dead around him all the time. And, you know, and then, like, I'll be sure, like, almost dying as well and, like, ending up in the hospital and, like, coming out of it. I mean, he basically, Uma Thurmand his way out of dying and lived to tell the tale of Diddy trying to kill him.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Troy]

Can you tell more about that?

[Kelly]

So the irony is, like, Kim Porter ended up dying of pneumonia, and she was in the hospital for pneumonia so young and, like, died of pneumonia and.

[Courtney]

Allegedly had a book coming. Was allegedly writing a book, which I think it wasn't touched on in the doc, but it's important to know she allegedly had plans to release this, like, scathing tell all.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Chandler]

And didn't he, like, find her journals or something? Or, like, the book was gonna be based on her journal. And, like, I don't know if Diddy or someone close to him discovered that pre her death.

[Kelly]

That's what they say in the Peacock doc. They were like, to this day, nothing has been proven about the book being real. But, like, I don't agree with that.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I mean, I feel like so many people have confirmed that she was writing that book.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Kimora Lee.

[Kelly]

Kimora Lee Simmons. Her best friend even said that she was. I mean. Yeah. Her close friends have said it, so.

[Troy]

Wow.

[Kelly]

So I'll be sure. Like, he was with Kim first. Just to give people a backstory. He was with Kim first. They had a child together. Diddy saw Kim. It was love at first sight for him. He literally took this man's child.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Kelly]

And was like, now I'm your dad. Like, took him. He pursued her to the point that I think he just kind of, like, whittled her down. And so now him and Al BIE Shore and Diddy have had this, like, hatred for each other for years. And they worked really close to each other, and then all of a sudden, Al B. Sure. Ends up in the hospital with all these crazy ailments. He basically dies. He's in a coma. He said in that documentary that there were people visiting him at the hospital, threatening him and telling him that he was. That he better be careful and whatever, and that he remembers all their faces and who they were. He had to learn to walk again. I think they obviously thought he was gonna die.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And that he wouldn't live to tell this story. But he's very much got his foot on Diddy's throat. He's like, diddy, he tried to kill me.

[Courtney]

And he also says Diddy killed Kim.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

He flat out said it.

[Troy]

And what would be the motive?

[Courtney]

I mean, if she's writing a book, you know? And also, like, I'll be sure.

[Kelly]

I'll be sure.

[Courtney]

I don't know why I can't say his name right. Like, it just doesn't sound natural coming from Me. But he said, you know, Cassie's the new Kim. What's in the way of Cassie becoming the new Kim is Kim.

[Chandler]

Oh, like when she was alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause Diddy had already met Cassie when Kim was still alive. Yeah, yeah.

[Troy]

He wanted to be with Cassie. He didn't want to be with Kim anymore. And she was gonna be in the way.

[Courtney]

That's what it, like, seemed to allude to.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Or maybe she was gonna share things that were gonna deter Cassie or something, you know, expose him.

[Kelly]

Yeah. She knew everything. And I also think that he had that same obsessive thing with Cassie where he was like, you are mine.

[Troy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

Like, you're my toy. You're my image. Like, I'm your voice. People think that he, like, discovered her, but he didn't. Like, she was already very successful. She was an independent MySpace artist, did everything on her own, released this song that kind of changed the music industry back in the day. And then he just took her.

[Courtney]

Right. She was gonna be in movies. She was in Step up, don't forget.

[Chandler]

Oh, yes, that's right.

[Troy]

I mean, I think also Cassie was just such a talent, you know, not someone who needed her dad to pay her way onto the music scene. Like Blake Lively, as we discussed before.

[Kelly]

Her recording, like some buxom blondes that we know.

[Troy]

But no, Cassie, I mean, was just so stunning and an incredible singer, incredible dancer. Just absolutely. It's so sad to hear about the way that Diddy would treat these women he was in long term relationships with.

[Chandler]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Chan. Get excited for Kinda Pregnant, the newest must watch movie coming soon to Netflix. So picture this. The hilarious Amy Schumer plays Lainey, who's more than a little jealous that her best friend is pregnant and living her best life. Life. So what does Laney do? She fakes being pregnant, of course. It's what everyone does. I mean, we've all had those moments where you're like, I want what she has. But Lainey takes it to the next level. And we get to watch what happens as her little white lie grows into something much, much bigger. Kinda Pregnant isn't just about the laughs. It gets real about the ups and downs of life pregnancy. It's not always the glow everyone talks about. And while Lainey's not actually pregnant, the movie does a pretty honest job of showing how messy and complicated it can all get. Get relationships, lies, and everything in between. I cannot wait to watch this one. Plus, it has an absolute powerhouse comedy cast. So in addition to Amy Schumer is Will Forte, Jillian bell, Damon Wayans Jr. And more. Watch Kind of Pregnant only on Netflix February 5th.

[Troy]

You guys. Skims is the best. I have had two friends independently say to me it's the best underwear, it's the best shapewear, it is the best basic. And with Skims, the fabrications are so soft and luxurious. The cuts are really comfortable and flattering. It just feels like every piece was really thoughtfully crafted and designed and everything feels so high quality. I cannot recommend their thongs enough from the Fits Everybody collection. They just truly like melt into my skin and I can barely even feel them on. The Fits Everybody collection is available in sizes double extra small to 4x. You can shop now at skims.com and skims New York flagship on 5th Avenue. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and select Pop Apologist in the dropdown menu that follows. And if you are looking for the perfect gift for your valentine or for yourself, Skims just launched their best Valentine's shop ever. Available in sizes for women, men and kids. So the YouTuber Tasha K interviewed Gina Virginia Young, and Gina said that she was in this five year relationship with Diddy and described how he would punch her in the head and in the stomach repeatedly. And you see these, you know, you see the video of Diddy with Cassie in the hotel dragging her by the hair and it's like, clearly this is a pattern. This is what he was like with the women in his life.

[Courtney]

And the punching in the stomach is like consistent in all the lawsuits.

[Kelly]

It was Dawn Richards was like at.

[Courtney]

Dinner with Usher and Neo.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah, Neo. Oh my God.

[Courtney]

And Neo. And during this, allegedly Cassie said something Diddy didn't like and he just punched her right in the stomach and she like at a restaurant, at a restaurant in front of two major artists.

[Kelly]

And they pretended not to see, not to toot.

[Chandler]

Our own.

[Courtney]

We have done a Dawn Richards court doc review. It is on our Patreon if anyone wants to.

[Kelly]

It's the best court doc of the whole. I mean, best in like, it's revealing.

[Courtney]

It's very laid out.

[Kelly]

It's sad though.

[Troy]

You know, Neo was complicit is what.

[Courtney]

I'm hearing from you, unfortunately.

[Kelly]

I think they were all just so scared too.

[Troy]

I mean, let's talk about Usher, right? Yeah, the guy has gone dark essentially.

[Courtney]

Since all of this with Diddy and Usher. Like Usher was very allegedly groomed by him even. What is it, Howard Stern, when Usher's talking about like, he was basically Given to Diddy when he was 13, 14, and he was exposed to every drug. He was exposed to sex. He was exposed to all this stuff at such a young age. Where he would make a. A bedroom in the studio to feel safe. You know, I think in the doc again, it says.

[Chandler]

Wait, wait. Sorry, Let me interrupt you too. He would make a bedroom in the studio, like. Cause that's what he was used to.

[Courtney]

Because that's where he felt safest, away from Diddy.

[Chandler]

Got it. Okay. Wow.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Like in the doc, it said. What was it like? The music industry's full of groomers. It's just like a continuous pattern.

[Chandler]

Well, then you look at Justin Bieber.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Who was given to Usher.

[Kelly]

You know, it's crazy. That's what was in Diddy's mind, Grooming Usher. Knowing that one day he would be this older artist that would then groom younger artists with him.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Like he creates monsters.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

In innocent kids, basically. Which is sick.

[Chandler]

And what's so sick and twisted about is, like, you know, when you are groomed, like, you just don't know any. You just. That's what you think is normal.

[Kelly]

Right?

[Chandler]

You know?

[Courtney]

Yeah. If you're 13 and you're like, oh, this is how the industry works.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Why am I gonna question it?

[Chandler]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Troy]

It's interesting. I remember watching Leaving Neverland, and one of the things that always stuck out to me. To me was them saying. Or one of the victims saying that, you know, it wasn't until he had the perspective of having his own child that he was like, oh, my gosh, there's no world in which this was correct in any way. And so it just. Yeah, it's. It makes you wonder if with Usher, like, he was just. Especially if it starts at 13 and 14, that's a lot later, you know, if it just becomes so normalized.

[Chandler]

Right, Right.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And also, I feel like we. I mean, as a society, like, we've been so brainwashed with this, like, idea that it's normal for kids to be pop stars. Like it used to be. At least back in the day, it felt like, novel. It was like, oh, my God, like. And can you believe he's 15? Like, Aaron Carter felt like, oh, my God, he's so young, you know? And now it's, like, very normal, but it's like. I don't know. It's weird, right?

[Courtney]

By the time you hit 18, you're, like, old.

[Kelly]

Yeah, it's very weird. And like, earlier you had asked, like, something about the music industry and, like, the. Me too. Thing. And I just feel like the music industry is run on slave contracts. They make these, like, crazy slave contracts where these kids.

[Chandler]

Right. Where they own them.

[Kelly]

Where they own them and make owners and their business and their music. And then, you know, eventually it becomes that their guardian, like Scooter Braun being Justin's guardian is the most insane thing.

[Troy]

That's insane.

[Chandler]

But he has, like a mom and.

[Kelly]

A dad who's like, right there.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I mean, even in Backstreet Boys, Brian was Nick's guardian. So nick could be 13, living in Germany. Nuts.

[Troy]

Nuts. And also these kids probably are supporting their families at this point. So they're under so much pressure, everyone's bill to continue and to be successful at any cost.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Courtney]

Demi Lovato talks about that a lot.

[Troy]

Really?

[Courtney]

Yeah. One of their YouTube doc. I can't remember which one.

[Kelly]

There's been a few.

[Troy]

You start to really realize why these child stars, a lot of times go off the deep end, you know, and why some of them are just so unwell and really never recover. You know, you think about Amanda Bynes. You think about. I mean, did Macaulay Culkin ever normalize?

[Chandler]

I'm not sure about Macaulay Culkin. Who always comes to mind for me is Jennette McCurdy, too. Like, I mean, her book was fascinating. Obviously, she was, like, raised Mormon, so, you know, interesting to Lauren and I especially. But yeah, just about the gross stuff that happens, you know, and children and entertainment and then all the pressure that you feel when you are supporting your family, you know, when you come from nothing, and then all of a sudden you're this star who has everything at their fingertips or, like, the potential for that.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I mean, Jojo talks about it in her book that just came out.

[Chandler]

Siwa.

[Courtney]

No, Jojo Levesky, I think.

[Chandler]

Yes. Jojo, leave. Get out.

[Courtney]

Too little too late. But she talks about it. You know, she became popular at 12 and she's going through puberty, which obviously you're gaining weight. And they just started giving her shots, like B12 shots and, like, shots to give her nutrients so she didn't have to eat at, like, 14, 15. And she was another one who had, like, the worst contract.

[Kelly]

Yeah, slave contract.

[Courtney]

Aliyah's uncle.

[Kelly]

Yeah, her slave contract was under Aaliyah's uncle, who was more of a laborer. But I always say that really, nothing's really changed since, like, Shirley Temple days. Like, society has changed, you know, but, like, for the most part, kids are still pretty much abused. Like they were, like, back in the day.

[Troy]

I Would love to talk more about Shirley Temple days, because isn't the thought that all those kids were just abused?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I mean, Judy Garland, they'd give her something to go to sleep. Give her something to wake her up, keep her up. And then again, you need to take something to go to sleep. So she gets addicted to all these pills. And it's not her fault.

[Kelly]

She was on a cigarette diet as a little girl. No food, just smokes. Like, that's insanity. And then Shirley Temple has talked about how they used to put the kids on. They would sit them on ice blocks if they weren't performing.

[Troy]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kelly]

They would put them in these, like, boxes where they couldn't escape, and they would sit them on blocks of ice and ice burn them, basically. And then they would, like, perform to.

[Chandler]

Like, correct their behavior if they weren't doing what they were expected. Oh, my gosh.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And she's another one. And if you look at all of her old Shirley Temple is like a weird obsession of mine.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And if you.

[Troy]

Anyway, I love Shirley Temple.

[Kelly]

I know. I do, too. I love her. But if you look at her old movies, they're all so inappropriate and so really. Oh, my God. Like, men groping her and her wearing little tiny dresses that show her underwear. And, like, she used to play baby prostitutes all the time. Like, wow. Yeah. We don't have to.

[Courtney]

I'm like, we've really steered away from Diddy, haven't we?

[Chandler]

I mean, it's all connected.

[Courtney]

It is all connected.

[Kelly]

It is, it is. It is.

[Chandler]

I mean.

[Troy]

I mean, I. Sorry. The baby prostitute role. I'm so. I need to. I wanna figure out. I mean, not that I wanna watch this film, but, like, there was a role for. There was a baby prostitute.

[Kelly]

Oh, yeah. There's, like, really interesting documentaries about it. But, like, her first couple movies were this, like, series about, like, a brothel and she played one of the baby prostitutes. And, like, there's a documentary about it. I don't. We don't have to go too much.

[Troy]

Feel free to Google.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I think what strikes me about this entire conversation is just the deals you make with the devil. You know, I think when you're. When there's the chance at stardom, which feels. Which is a one in a million type of life. And I think, like, even now, it's hard to say. Would you not, like, just. It's like you have this opportunity to literally be, you know, this once in a lifetime opportunity to be a star, and you maybe have to look the other way at Some things. And I just think, like, I don't know, like, will this ever go away? Will there really be a reckoning here? Because people, you know, are dying to be famous.

[Courtney]

I don't know. I mean, I think people are gonna be like, well, they cut the head off the snake. We don't have to worry anymore. Kind of what they did with Harvey.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah, hopefully.

[Troy]

What do you mean by that?

[Courtney]

I think people don't want to dive too deep in it. I think once you start really looking at this, and, I don't know, people make memes about it to, like, cope and try and make jokes about it, but this is a really serious. And I think it's easier to be like, Harvey was kind of the only bad one and now we got rid of him, you know, when in reality it went all the way down to, like, One Tree Hill with Mark Schwann. You know, there's so many more people who deserve to have their story told and so many people who deserve to be behind bars. But I don't know, I think it's almost easier to be like, well, we got rid of the worst one. Right. Like, hopefully there's no other bad one. Same with, like, Jeffrey Epstein.

[Troy]

Well, yeah. I mean, and no one that Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficked women to or underage girls to are behind bars.

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Troy]

The only person who's in jail is the woman involved. That's it.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Troy]

All the men who took advantage. And they know who they are.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Troy]

They know exactly who they are.

[Courtney]

And they're royal.

[Troy]

Right. And it's just like they just walk free. It almost makes you wonder if all of these trials of Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and all of this, if it's really just like the sacrificial lambs to keep these systems still going.

[Chandler]

Right. And to placate people into thinking things are getting better, things are changing. But I think we also like our celebrities and we like our entertainment. And so it's like, does all of Hollywood have to go away for these rotten systems to be done away with?

[Courtney]

Well, I think Hollywood's already changing.

[Chandler]

Yeah. You guys have talked about this.

[Courtney]

I mean, I feel like people don't look at celebrity the same way. And I think it's because it's easier for people to get famous, like on TikTok or. Or podcast or whatever. You know, we don't look at the A list the way we used to. We kind of look at the A list like, ugh, you guys are, like, so greedy. Instead of being out of touch.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And touch Instead of being like, oh my God, I wish I could have that. You're so glamorous.

[Chandler]

Right. And I think too, just to kind of go back on what I said earlier, like, yeah, stardom is a once in a lifetime chance, but it comes at such a high cost to your mental health, to your life, to your family's life. Maybe people too can see fame as well. I would never want that, actually.

[Kelly]

You know, but to your earlier point though, I mean, people are always gonna want to be famous, right? And parents will always want their kids to be famous.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

There will always be parents willing to give their kids up to the industry. Always.

[Chandler]

And that's what is just, like, really sick, I think, you know, about the whole thing.

[Kelly]

And I think it's like really hard for some people to understand that there are parents that just. Just do not care.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Like earlier you brought up Macaulay Culkin. Like his dad just didn't care about him that way.

[Troy]

I mean, there are parents right now selling their kids online, you know, all over the world. Like, it is. It's hard to understand the person who has that perspective and that mind and is a parent of a child. But the truth is, it exists. And there will always be people who are willing to take advantage of those vulnerable children.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Troy]

I will say, like, going back to what you said, Chandler, I think that it's a once in a million lifetimes opportunity to become a star and to have this insane life. But I think what's interesting about it is you look at these people who live these lives and I'm sure you agree, like, it doesn't look actually any happier than people who just live normal, good lives. Right?

[Chandler]

Yeah, totally. I think you just. People think money is the secret to everything. You know, two, the perfect life. Even though we know actually logically that it's actually just not true.

[Troy]

If anything, you just see these people, it looks like they are so miserable, they're in such a cage of their.

[Kelly]

Fame and so unable to, like, be honest or like, truly vulnerable or make real connections.

[Troy]

Yeah, make real connections. Because you're surrounded by people who want something from you. Everyone. And so it just, I can imagine it would just make you, you know, not trust anyone around you.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Kelly]

And the thought of that at 13, you know, it's one thing when you become famous as an adult, but to be like a preteen and just thrust into being, you know, performing for 70,000 people, it's crazy.

[Troy]

And also you experience your adolescence where people are deferring to you and you're the authority, and you're the person cutting the checks for people. That is gonna create a very interesting adult.

[Chandler]

And honestly, just I think with what we've been driving at, like, to also see your parents use you and manipulate or, I guess, at the worst, discard you. I mean, that would create such a warped feeling about the world and about how you experience love and trust.

[Troy]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I don't know how you ever recover from that.

[Courtney]

You know, the people you trust most just gave you away for money.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kelly]

And you brought up having to be the, like, basically the child being the adult thing. That was one of the things I thought was really interesting in the Vice doc. That was about. What was the name of the. The doc about all that?

[Troy]

Like the Nickelodeon doc.

[Kelly]

Yeah, the Nickelodeon one.

[Chandler]

Oh, the one about, like, the child's Quiet on set. Quiet on set, yes.

[Kelly]

One of the things I thought was so interesting about the Amanda Bynes section of that documentary was them talking about, you know, she was being treated like a woman with her own sitcom. She was essentially, you know, she was, like, signing the checks, basically. And she was this little girl running a variety show.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

You know, with all these people under her, and she was killing it and capable. And that's what's so sad, is, like, if you would just allow these really insanely talented, gifted kids to just do the thing that they're good at, like Amanda Bynes. Everybody wins. We all make money.

[Troy]

Right.

[Kelly]

Everybody's happy, but they. They. It's like they have to squeeze every drop out of them, you know? But, yeah, I mean, she was like, basically Roseanne as a little girl running, like, a sitcom. That's. You know what I mean? Like, it's crazy.

[Troy]

Well, and also, I think. I think within an Amanda Bynes type, it's not something where these kids compromise their entire childhoods, and at least they're.

[Chandler]

Set up for life.

[Troy]

A lot of these kids end up in a situation where, as adults, they're not actually super rich forever. You know, the money runs out. There's always people trying to take it from them, always people trying to get a cut. And a lot of times, they don't parlay that child's star career into a long career as an adult, for whatever reason, whether it's. They can't, you know, emotionally manage their adult life because. Because they had such a traumatic upbringing, whatever it is. So don't try to have your kids be child stars.

[Chandler]

Yeah. This is the anti child star episode that the world desperately needed. I want to get back to Diddy.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Because I Want to talk about Jay Z? Where do you both stand on that?

[Courtney]

I think Jay Z's really lucky he has Beyonce to hide behind. I don't think Diddy was the only one doing this kind of stuff in the music industry.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Troy]

Yeah. It's like, is Diddy behind bars right now being like. Like those no doubt people that are still out there just on, you know, they're gonna be on a yacht in San Tropez this summer, probably up to the same stuff while I'm rotting in prison for the rest of my life.

[Kelly]

I think he knows that a lot of his friends divulged information about him to publications and outlets, and I'm sure that there were. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Jay Z had his team, like, pushing stuff to, like, Daily Mail and Huffington Posts and stuff. You know what I mean? I wouldn't be shocked at all.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Obviously, Jay Z came out with his, like, rebuttal letter to, like, the just.

[Courtney]

A young man at 50 something.

[Kelly]

Just a young artist.

[Chandler]

Also, it's so funny that some people thought that letter was, like. Was articulate. And I thought it was, like, so unhinged. It was like. It was very clearly like, post like.

[Kelly]

Yeah, like the Shining.

[Troy]

He's like, yes, yes.

[Chandler]

And then, like, he was at the Mufasa premiere with, like, the whole family the next day. And I think now the person who named him, it's been, like, settled or like, they didn't they get a payout of some sort?

[Courtney]

I don't know. The lawyer and Jay Z were, like, fighting back and forth, and then it just kind of went quiet.

[Chandler]

I just think it's interesting that it's gone quiet.

[Courtney]

Sounds like there was some sort of settlement.

[Kelly]

Settlement.

[Troy]

Yeah. No, I believe the person who alleged the wrongdoing, I don't know exactly what she alleged, so I'm just saying wrongdoing. She said that she now is, like, thinking she could have misremembered things. Right. So was she scared into silence? Was she given hush money? But, yeah, the lawsuit seems to have gone away.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think Beyonce is the greatest PR that he could ever ask for, and he hides behind her. And it's so interesting because it's like, at the beginning of the relationship, like, she was the one that was written about as being so lucky she got Jay Z. Oh, my God. You know, and now slowly, over time, it's, like, reversed. Nobody's checking for Jay Z music. Nobody cares about him. He's not a prolific figure for young people. Gen Z knows him as Beyonce's husband.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And now she's just his shield. You know, he just uses her as a shield. And I'm not gonna say I don't think it's a little weird that Beyonce will just, like, do shit publicly. You know what I mean? Randomly, when it's, like, when she needs to.

[Troy]

You know, I think that if that's the case, there has to be something in it for her. Right. Cause she has all the wealth on her own. There has to be some reason why Beyonce is being his shield, because most women would not. Especially in her. They're in Beyonce's position.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Troy]

They would be like, see ya. I'm gonna go live an incredible life with someone who is not guilty of all these crimes.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I have no idea. Because I think Beyonce would actually be better off as single.

[Chandler]

That would be the most incredible.

[Courtney]

But they are a business. They're such a business.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And she's very. That's my man. That's my man. That's my man.

[Troy]

Oh, he's so unattractive. I don't get it.

[Chandler]

Not even. I just. I don't think. I don't see the redeeming qualities in Jay Z personally, besides the fact that he is, like, powerful.

[Kelly]

Well, I think that even just, like, the way Beyonce writes about him, I think that she still sees him a certain way.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

He has, like, that 90s glow about him still, to her.

[Chandler]

Yeah. He's still, like.

[Kelly]

He's still. Big panic.

[Chandler]

An idol. Yeah, exactly. You know, he's like.

[Troy]

He's the David Foster to her. Katherine McPhee.

[Chandler]

Wow. Finally someone said it.

[Kelly]

Finally. Record the time and date.

[Chandler]

Okay. Looking to the future, what do you think the trial holds?

[Courtney]

I hope Diddy, like, rats out everyone. Like, that's what I really hope. I don't know if that'll be the truth, but I'm sure we'll be right outside the courthouse with our signs. Yeah.

[Kelly]

Rotted, Rotted, rotted, rotted. Yeah. I hope that he rats out everybody. I hope that he goes full maniacal ditty. Like, I hope that he just, like, goes berserk and names. Every name has nothing to lose at this point.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

You know, just. Yeah.

[Chandler]

My conspiracy brain, though, thinks that he would be, like, killed in prison.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Before that. Kind of.

[Kelly]

A lot of people said that. That he would be like, Epstein prison, basically.

[Chandler]

This is just kind of a funny question. This person says, why do I keep seeing Nice try, Diddy in the comments? Do you know? Have you seen that joke?

[Courtney]

I think it's you know what makes me actually really upset is that people are making this into a meme and a joke when it's not fucking funny.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

This is very serious. And I've been on that stance for like.

[Kelly]

But it's true. It is like, people, their way of coping, like you said earlier, to cope with this is to make jokes about it. And I think that it's specific. This is like a whole nother thing that we don't have time for. But I think it's because it's men, and especially them being black men. It's just like something people can't fully digest. It's a lot to picture. Your favorite hip thrusting R and B star at a freak off with a bunch of spoiled up men.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Kelly]

People just can't. So they're like, making jokes.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Okay. Quick rapid fire. Do you think Snoop was involved?

[Courtney]

Probably, yeah.

[Chandler]

What about Justin Timberlake?

[Kelly]

Snoop had a Pimp Chronicles series. Do you remember his Girls Gone Wild?

[Courtney]

Yes. Yeah. I don't think Justin Timberlake or I'm sure Justin Timberlake is somehow involved, but I don't know if he was like a regular.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

You know?

[Chandler]

Yeah. Wow. Well, we can only hope to know everyone who's involved and hope to see them behind bars.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming on our episode.

[Courtney]

Thank you for having us. This was really fun. I love, like, sitting in a studio and talking to you guys.

[Kelly]

I know. This was super fun.

[Chandler]

It used to be a regular thing. Yeah, really?

[Troy]

Your diddy PhDs are well deserved.

[Kelly]

Thank you. We tip our hat.

[Courtney]

We deserve honorary degrees, not him.

[Kelly]

Yeah, I want a fake Harvard diploma.

[Troy]

You guys, Kelly and Tor's podcast, beyond the Blinds is so good. I loved listening to your Gwyneth Paltrow episode. You guys just. You read all the blind items. You have such, like, funny commentary and stories. So everyone needs to go listen to beyond the Blinds. Thank you, Troy and Kelly, for being here.

[Kelly]

Thank you so much.

[Troy]

And where can people find you on Instagram?

[Courtney]

Beyond the Blinds pod. And then I'm also Laguna Biatch.

[Kelly]

And I'm Troy Jean Spears.

[Troy]

Some excellent handles, truly. All right, love you guys. We'll be back on Friday. Bye.

[Unknown]

Hey, moms, have you ever felt like there's more to motherhood than what we're told? Then you need to check out our podcast, Moms Ask why. Hosted by Chelsea Jules and Brittany Whitney, Moms Ask why dives deep into the tough questions surrounding motherhood. Our mission, to educate, inspire, and empower moms like you to take charge of your children's health with real talk, expert insight, and actionable advice. This is the podcast every mom needs in her playlist. Because sometimes the best way to be a great mom is to ask why. Follow Rate Interview Moms Ask why Now on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

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