261. PROFILE: DEMI MOORE

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pop Apologists – Episode 261: Profile of Demi Moore

Introduction

In Episode 261 of Pop Apologists, hosted by Lauren and Chandler from PodcastOne, the sisters delve deep into the life and career of Hollywood icon Demi Moore. Breaking away from their usual focus on celebrity relationships, this episode marks the inaugural "Pop Apologist Profile," dedicated solely to profiling a single celebrity. The conversation navigates through Demi Moore's tumultuous early life, her rise to stardom, personal battles, and her enduring legacy in the entertainment industry.

Early Life and Upbringing

Demi Moore, born Demi Jean Gynes on November 11, 1962, in Roswell, New Mexico, had a challenging childhood marked by instability and dysfunction.

• Parental Instability: Demi's mother, Virginia Jenny Gynes ("Ginny"), had Demi at 18 and later remarried Danny Gynes, who she believed was Demi's father. It wasn't until Demi was a teenager that she discovered Danny was not her biological father. This revelation deeply affected her, leading to a fractured relationship with Danny (Chandler, 03:21).

• Childhood Trauma: At five, Demi was diagnosed with kidney nephrosis, a life-threatening condition that led to three months in the hospital—a sanctuary away from her chaotic home life (Chandler, 06:08). Her upbringing was further marred by her father's substance abuse, gambling, and abusive behavior, creating a tumultuous environment that Demi had to navigate from a young age (Lauren, 05:32).

Entering the Entertainment Industry

Demi's resilience shone through as she ventured into acting during her teenage years.

• Early Acting Roles: At 15, Demi secured an agent and began appearing in TV shows, including a notable role in "Kaz" where she earned her SAG card with the famous line, "$50, Mr." (Chandler, 15:22).

• First Major Break: Her role in "St. Elmo's Fire" at 20 cemented her status as part of the "Brat Pack," a group of young actors prominent in the 1980s. However, Demi's burgeoning career was paralleled by personal struggles, including substance abuse and unstable relationships (Chandler, 25:20).

Personal Struggles and Substance Abuse

Demi's journey was fraught with personal battles that intertwined with her professional life.

• Substance Abuse: Demi battled cocaine addiction, which began during the filming of "Blame it on Rio." Her addiction led to erratic behavior, including frequent relocations and unstable relationships (Chandler, 23:57).

• Eating Disorders: In an attempt to regain control, Demi developed an eating disorder while filming "Indecent Proposal," shifting her battle from substance abuse to body image issues (Chandler, 28:15).

• Rehabilitation and Recovery: Demi's pivotal moment came during the filming of "The Substance," where director Joel Schumacher intervened, leading her to enroll in rehab. This support system helped her achieve sobriety, driven by her commitment to her career and the people who believed in her (Chandler, 26:31).

Marriage to Bruce Willis

Demi's marriage to actor Bruce Willis was both a high-profile union and a complex relationship.

• Whirlwind Romance: Demi and Bruce met during the premiere of "Stakeout" and quickly married in a secret ceremony in September 2005. Their relationship was characterized by deep bonding and shared values, despite a significant age gap (Chandler, 34:33).

• Parenting and Co-Parenting: Together, they raised three daughters—Rumer, Scout, and Tallulah—in a more grounded environment away from Hollywood's glare. Their separation in 2018 was amicable, prioritizing their children and maintaining a cooperative co-parenting relationship (Chandler, 52:11).

Later Career and Advocacy

Demi's career continued to evolve, showcasing her versatility and commitment to impactful roles.

• Iconic Roles and Accolades: Her performances in "Ghost," "A Few Good Men," and "The Substance" demonstrated her range as an actress. Winning awards like a Golden Globe and Critics' Choice Award highlighted her enduring talent (Chandler, 73:56).

• Advocacy and Public Image: Demi used her platform to speak about self-worth and the pressures women face in Hollywood. Her powerful acceptance speech, delivered upon winning Best Female Actor, emphasized the importance of recognizing one's intrinsic value beyond societal standards (Chandler, 74:04).

Overcoming Adversity and Personal Growth

Demi's life story is one of overcoming immense adversity through resilience and personal growth.

• Health Struggles: Following her separation from Bruce Willis, Demi faced severe health challenges, including substance abuse relapse and autoimmune issues. Her journey to recovery involved intensive rehabilitation and introspection, leading to a stronger sense of self-worth and independence (Chandler, 68:24).

• Reconciliation and Healing: Demi's reconciliation with her mother during her mother's terminal illness provided a sense of closure, allowing her to heal old wounds and foster a more profound understanding of herself and her past (Chandler, 48:17).

Conclusion and Legacy

Demi Moore's life, as portrayed in this episode, is a testament to her strength and unwavering dedication to her craft and family. From a tumultuous childhood to becoming one of Hollywood's most enduring stars, Demi's story is one of triumph over adversity. Her recent accolades and continued presence in the industry underscore her lasting impact and the respect she has earned as both an actress and a person of substance.

Notable Quotes

• Lauren: "And it’s so clear. She's done so much work on herself." (00:00)

• Chandler: "You can go through so much in life and you can heal. You can get better." (00:03)

• Demi Moore: "There will never be a time where I thought maybe I was complete. Maybe I was done." (73:56)

• Demi Moore: "I celebrate this as a marker of my wholeness and of the love that is driving me." (73:56)

Key Takeaways

1. Resilience Through Adversity: Demi's ability to overcome a troubled upbringing and personal struggles showcases the power of resilience and self-improvement.

2. Balancing Career and Personal Life: Her journey highlights the challenges of maintaining personal well-being while navigating a demanding career in Hollywood.

3. Importance of Support Systems: The support Demi received from directors, family, and close relationships played a crucial role in her path to recovery and success.

4. Advocacy for Self-Worth: Demi's public discussions on self-worth and societal expectations provide valuable insights into the pressures faced by women in the entertainment industry.

Final Thoughts

Lauren and Chandler commend Demi Moore for her transparency and courage in sharing her life's journey. They express admiration for her achievements and the ongoing impact she has on both the industry and society. As Demi continues to evolve both personally and professionally, her story serves as an inspiration for those facing their own struggles and seeking to find balance and fulfillment.

Transcript

[Lauren]

It's so powerful, and it's just clear. She's done so much work on herself.

[Chandler]

You can go through so much in life and you can heal. You can get better. Right. You can have the worst things happen to you, and you can grow.

[Lauren]

Trigger warning. We are going to be discussing sexual violence and rape and darker subject matter. So if any of that is not suitable for you, skin this episode.

[Chandler]

Well, well, well. We are so excited today because we are discussing the legend, the woman herself, Demi Moore.

[Lauren]

I think on this podcast, we haven't really done, you know, single person deep dives. I don't know. Have we? I know we've done couples.

[Chandler]

No, we tend to focus on great American romances, great international romances. We are a global podcast with many global elites listening. But no, we tend to focus on relationships. And today we're starting a very new thing.

[Lauren]

It feels right and it feels overdue, frankly, that this woman, you know, gets a moment.

[Chandler]

You guys, welcome to the first pop apologist profile. We did actually do a whole thing about why Anne Hathaway, people find her to be annoying, but I don't think that really counts as a pop apologist.

[Lauren]

I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't count. It doesn't count.

[Chandler]

So without further ado, we are so excited because right now, Demi Moore, she is the moment.

[Lauren]

She is.

[Chandler]

She is getting so much buzz and hype, and her. Her road to this, like, glorious moment in the sun, it has not been a smooth glide path.

[Lauren]

Well, also, everyone people listening are gonna be like, demi Moore has always been a huge star. Like, these girls are just, like, so out of their depth. We realize that. But I think that she's finally getting, like, awards for her talent. And she's always been an A lister. I've always known who she was, but, yeah, I didn't realize that she maybe wasn't getting the accolades that she deserved until right now. Maybe.

[Chandler]

No, I think we always knew she was a 90s icon. But like you said, professionally, she was not as esteemed as she really should have been.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And so it's really fun to see her truly having this moment. But let's go back to the very beginning, everyone.

[Lauren]

So I read her book recently, and I told you that it was, like, so good. I just was kind of looking for a new book and I just stumbled upon it. Love a celebrity memoir. Anyway, it totally gripped me. Her life is so fascinating, her early life especially. She's just had very hard upbringing, and, you know, she struggled with things as an adult, and I think she just has a really rich story. So anyway, we're happy that she's having this moment in culture and we're so excited to tell everyone her story.

[Chandler]

Yeah. You suggested to listen to her audiobook and it is an absolutely arresting, gorgeous six hours.

[Lauren]

I mean, you never listen to any or you never take me up on any of my book recommendations and this.

[Chandler]

One made me want to right my wrongs.

[Lauren]

Okay, so everyone, we're going to get into all things Demi Moore. She's really one of Hollywood's most intriguing and multifaceted stars. She's had the kind of career that is really one in a million, from her icon roles in Ghost, A Few Good Men to her already award winning starring role in the Substance, which is like one of the biggest movies from this past year. But the true story behind her life is a mix of triumph, resilience and heartbreak. So from childhood struggles to public relationships that, you know, we're all over People magazine and Us Weekly, Demi's journey has been anything but ordinary. So buckle in, everyone, as we take a closer look at this incredible woman who's faced it all, success, scandal, and some of life's toughest challenges, and comes out the other side with a truly riveting story.

[Chandler]

Let's dive in the early years. Demi Jean gynes was born November 11, 1962, to Virginia Jenny Gynes in Roswell, New Mexico. Ginny was just 18 years old when she had Demi, and she was still very much a kid herself. She came from a poor background and she didn't let that shape her outlook. Demi remembers her mom being a very generous person and she was just kind of one of those women who she might not have the means, but she still wants the things. Like one story that she tells in the memoir is that she would never allow for anything generic in the house. And it's so cute because that is such like, our mom is actually the same way.

[Lauren]

It's so funny. Like, it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized like, I'm just buying generic brand things and it's okay. But yeah, mom's very staunch about that for some reason. Our mom came from humble beginnings, you.

[Chandler]

Know, but it is a small luxury to be like, no, I'm not going to have save on ketchup. Like, we're going with Heinz bitch.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Anyway, won't digress too much.

[Lauren]

We promise. So Demi's biological dad, Charles Harmon, was briefly married to Ginny when she was pregnant, but their marriage didn't last. Instead, Demi grew up thinking Danny Gynes who married Ginny when Demi was just three months old, was her dad. It wasn't until she was a teenager that she learned the truth. Dani wasn't her biological father. And this is like a huge moment. I mean, I think that we'll get into a little bit later, but I think that that was a big crack in her foundation as a person for sure.

[Chandler]

And there's a lot of stuff that happens after it with her and Dani, the man who raised. But yeah, we'll save that for later. So Jenny and Danny's relationship was absolutely tumultuous. Danny was the type of guy to be gambling, cheating, running from creditors. Chandler knows a thing about that. No, I'm just kidding.

[Lauren]

Like, I actually think I probably have a better credit score than you.

[Chandler]

Really? Look, pull out credit karma.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

So it was not always terrible though. When he was more stable, he had a work hard, play hard mentality that was really fun. He loved gambling and fighting, whether he was an observer or a participant. So there's just this pattern in Demi's upbringing where there was a lot of moving, instability, dysfunction, kind of boom and bust, mostly bust.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Danny would have a pattern of writing bad checks, using fraudulent identities, and making enemies out of people he had scammed. I mean, generally, I think that's what happens when you scam someone, you make them an enemy.

[Lauren]

You absolutely do. Yeah. I feel like this was also just a different time where you could like write a bad check, hightail it out of town, and just like do it all over again.

[Chandler]

No, this was the time when you really could have a second family really easily for a man.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

If you, if you traveled, you could just fully have a whole other set of kids and another wife and another home.

[Lauren]

Right. She talks about the fact that her dad had plenty of affairs and that her mom, instead of maybe trying to address the issue at the heart of it or just leave him, she actually they would just. That was another reason why they would leave town. It was just like, okay, your dad had another affair, we gotta get out of here. Cause there's just like, you know, too many options. Temptresses.

[Chandler]

Right. Too many ne'er do wells.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

At five years old, Demi was diagnosed with kidney nephrosis, which was a life threatening condition at the time. She spent three months in the hospital and she said that she loved being in the hospital. Cause it felt like a clean, comfortable, safe environment compared to the tumult at home.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

When, you know, she would find out that they were moving and they had to hightail it out of Town. Cause Danny had found a new lady.

[Lauren]

Right. Also another similarity. Our mom had this as well. Did you know this?

[Chandler]

Yes, I did.

[Lauren]

Anyway, just kind of random fact. So the same year that she was diagnosed with that kidney condition, her younger brother Morgan was born. She remembers that he was very doted on and that her mother sings songy voice would just say, you know, just give the baby what he wants. Which might have included giving a fussy baby Morgan a beer in the backseat when they were on a long drive. Which is just so another time.

[Chandler]

I mean, it reminds me of Brittany riding in the car with Jamie Lynn, her mom and Jamie Lynn and her like, have they make cocktails when she's 13. Yes. Just a different time. A looser time for sure.

[Lauren]

Bad judgment on the part of the parents. But also a different time. Like, can we excuse some of this to it being a different time? Babies were drinking back then.

[Chandler]

I mean, she really wanted the beer.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Is what it down to? No. I mean, it is just so interesting how like standards today, it's like, you'll see someone on Instagram will have another kid in the car and like the seat buckle might be like a little.

[Lauren]

Maybe a little low.

[Chandler]

The strap might be. Yes. The buckle might be a little low on the chest. And it's like, how dare you.

[Lauren]

Literally worst mother ever. You don't care. Yeah. So her and her brother actually calculated that they moved and attended two new schools each year. So they were just never able to like put down roots, which I think is so destabilizing for a child. Just never know friends long term. To never have any other like long term pillars and figures in your life that feel stable, you know, like you can have tumultuous parents, but maybe there are other adults in your life that are like stable. But you know, they didn't even know anybody for that long. That wasn't, I guess, close family.

[Chandler]

No. I think that also like one of the bedrocks of a childhood can be your friends that you've known for a really long time, who you have gone from kindergarten with to high school, those friends are like such cherished friends. And I think that to not have the stability of those friendships when your house life, when your home life is like really tumultuous, that as well, it would just be so destabilizing. So she's really been through so much and sometimes, you know, it got a lot darker than just moving around. So Demi recalled a time when she was 12 years old when her dad had decided to clean his gun despite being drunk. He didn't realize there was still a bullet in the chamber. And it went off, grazing his forehead and putting a hole in the wall. Demi remembers the blood everywhere. There was another time that she walked in to find her mom had attempted to commit suicide by overdosing on pills. And her father enlisted her help to dig the pills out of her mother's mouth while her father held her mother's mouth open. It's just unfathomable.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It's so unbelievably traumatizing. And then the story only gets, like, darker from. As she gets older, during her teenage years. But she says that, you know, it was at this time that something shifted inside of Demi and she realized that her childhood was over and that the feeling that she could count on either one of her parents evaporated. It was like, my parents are. Do not have it together. And she realized that her parents no longer looked after her, but they actually looked at her as someone to, like, clean up their messes.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And it seems like there's a moment when she kind of escapes, and they don't even want her to, like, live her best life in spite of them. It's like they want her in the muck.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

And they get her back. They call the police to get her back.

[Lauren]

I think. Yeah. At one point, she goes to, like, live with her grandparents or something, and it's like, you're a part of this family. You're not allowed to have any type of peace. You know, it's so backwards.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And you'll hear why. I mean, we'll get to it right now, like, why her mother really wanted her at her side, so.

[Lauren]

Well, I think this is interesting. Really quick, before we get to that part.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

She says that she was always adapting as a child and moving, and that really helped her with her career in acting because she was always observing people and figuring out how to fit in. She said she'd study the crowd and mimic their behaviors to blend in, which.

[Chandler]

Which I'm sure help helps a lot when you're on a set for three months and you have to get to know people really quickly, and then you have a whole other.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And you need to become a different.

[Chandler]

Persona, cast and crew to get to know.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

So after multiple moves, the. Finally, during her teenage years, they make it to Redondo Beach, California. They move there. And around this time, Demi starts acting. And she got suspended from school from smoking at just 13. Jenny picks her up that day, and she hands to me one of her own cigarettes on the drive home. And said, go ahead. So it's just, it's absolutely wild. Demi turned it down, pulled out her own pack and they smoked together. Then Demi asked if she could go to a club in the Valley that weekend. Her mom said sure, but Demi would have to drive herself. She even told her that if she got pulled over, she should tell the cops. Her parents didn't know she took the car. So like, basically like. Yeah, in lie to the police.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Literally, like this will make it. So it's not our problem.

[Chandler]

Right. Here's your joy ride. Here's how to get out of it. If law enforcement finds out.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It's just so crazy. Like 13 years old and I think also just like a time in which the world and crime was scary in like the 70s. Like, I mean, we're going to find out more dark things that happen, but just like, oh yeah, take the car as a 13 year old, go to this club.

[Chandler]

So there's actually a story our mom tells from when she was. I think she says she was four or five years old and her dad was driving home and he was a little drunk and maybe more than just a little. Yeah, I don't know. But he was drunk and he was driving home. The police pulled him over when they found out that he was only a few blocks from home. They said, oh, that's fine, you're only a few blocks. Like just go home.

[Lauren]

And then his like 4 or 5 year old is in the car.

[Chandler]

It's a different. It's a different time.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And just a different attitude maybe around all of those things, around drinking and. Yeah, okay. So she's 13 and she describes that, you know, her parents are heavily drinking and using a lot of prescription drugs and things were just fully spiraling out of control and they decided to get divorced again. I think there was like a lot of like, we're getting a divorce, then we're reconciling, blah, blah, blah. But during this, you know, particular we're gonna get a divorce moment, Danny said he would only agree if he could take her brother Morgan, not her. So like, if he could, you know, keep Morgan in the separation. And she says that she felt incredibly rejected, especially since her dad seemed fine with leaving her behind, but couldn't do the same with Morgan, obviously.

[Chandler]

I mean, that can't imagine be so hurtful. So they move again, this time to Hollywood, and it was just Demi and Ginny living together like peers, like besties. During this time, Ginny loved taking Demi out to restaurants and clubs where men would shower them both with attention. And it was there that Demi met another teen in her apartment complex named Nastasia Kinski, who was two years older than her. Nastasia was an inspiring actress and introduced to me to director Roman Polanski, marking the start of her journey into the world of acting.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So Nastasia Kinski was Eastern European, I think maybe Russian. And she didn't know. She didn't feel super comfortable with her English. And so she would, like. Demi would help her, like, run lines and stuff.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And so they kind of, like, became friends. I listened to an interview yesterday with Demi, and she was just talking about how struck she was by her, and she was just like, I want to do what she does.

[Chandler]

I bet you it was just a moment where she was like, that's what I want to be.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

This woman is glamorous. She's gonna have this amazing, like, she's gonna do this really cool career, and what a serendipitous encounter.

[Lauren]

So she's living at this apartment complex with her mom. They're going out together. You know, she's friends with Nastasia. And this is when that moment we talked about earlier where she finds out that Danny was not her biological father. So if you'll remember what, you know, they just got a divorce, or they're in the process of getting a divorce, and her, who she believes to be her biological dad is like, actually, I just want to take your brother. So she says that I think what happened is that I think that they were in the car or something with, like, her mom's friend or maybe her aunt. I can't remember exactly. And she asks her. She asked her mom, like, they're talking about the guy she was first married to, and Demi says, is he my real dad? And I think her mom says, who told you? Just, like, confirming it to her.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And her mom doesn't seem to have any sort of, like, contrition or any sort of, like, really emotional presence for her in this moment. She just seems to kind of, like, be unwavering and just kind of like.

[Lauren]

It is what it is.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Almost like she seems to be, like, caught up in the drama. I remember from the memoir, I kind of liked the drama of it.

[Lauren]

Right. Did not understand the gravity of what this meant to Demi. And she'd always felt a special bond with Dani, the guy who wasn't her dad, basically, but not her biological dad, because they shared a lazy eye. And she got hers corrected when she was 15. But they, like, she felt like he was her dad. It wasn't you know, I think that with stories like this, sometimes people can feel like I never really, I don't know, like she clearly felt bonded to Danny and also felt like she was his literal offspring.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I think what happens next makes it even more heartbreaking because she says that when Danny finds out she knows about this, he starts pulling away from their relationship and investing in it less, which is just so devastating, so, so.

[Lauren]

Wild and devastating to think like, okay, this is the time actually when my child needs me the most. Especially when she meets her biological father and it's just like nothing ever comes of that. Yeah.

[Chandler]

And I feel like it could be such a moment where it's like, isn't it so special that our relationship is so magical and we have such a bond and it doesn't matter, you know? Right. But I guess it just wasn't that way. And it's really Sad. So at 15, Demi gets an agent and starts to get small parts in TV shows. Her first break was on a show called Kaz where she played a teenage prostitute. Very wholesome programming happening at this time. She earns her SAG card for her famous line, $50. Mr. It's so funny. I don't, I never saw that movie, but I even know that line.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Oh, I don't know that line. Yeah, I never saw that. I never saw Kaz.

[Chandler]

This part is so, this part is.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I think one of the, one of the darkest parts of her, her whole story. But, you know, around this time, she's 15, a man in his late 40s or early 50s named Val Dumas, he began taking a shining to Ginny and Demi, especially Demi, and he owned a restaurant named Mirabel and began picking her up from school and stopping at the restaurant, you know, for a bite to eat before he would bring her home.

[Chandler]

So I feel like it's just imagine you are a 15 year old girl and this man in his early 50s is taking a shining to you and your mom taking you out to lunch. It's just, it's weird, like spending a lot of solo time with you. And she said she didn't recognize the grooming that was happening at the time, but that there was something that did make her feel slightly uneasy and she began making excuses, trying to avoid him. But then one day he was inside the apartment she shared with Ginny when she got home from school. And this is the afternoon that Val raped her. He raped the 15 year old Demid that day. She said she was very confused about the situation, wondering if she deserved it for, quote, leading him on or if she somehow owed it to him. And he said to her, I mean, before we get to this line, which is just like absolutely almost unutterable, I think Demi's attitude around this and her first kind of thoughts about it just really go to show the way women can feel like they're responsible for men's feelings and their actions and how ourselves being, you know, overly pleasing and nice can. Oh, we gave him the idea that that's what we wanted. So it's actually not his fault.

[Lauren]

Right. What was he to expect?

[Chandler]

Then he says to her, you know, afterward, he says, how does it feel to be whored by your mother for $500? So leading her to believe or telling her that her mom had basically given him access to her for cash. That's what he says. And she says she doesn't know if Ginny ever actually got money for that. So this is her talking to Dancer. Do you believe she sold you?

[C]

I think in my deep heart, no. I don't think it was a straightforward transaction. But she still did give him the access and put me in harm's way.

[Chandler]

I think that one thing to note is like we've been saying, oh, it's a different time, but ultimately there's never really a time where giving a middle aged man access to your teenage daughter is normal.

[Lauren]

Right. Or feels appropriate, you know, or that you wouldn't have your guard up a little bit.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Or you just would know not to do that.

[Lauren]

Sex crimes were happening back then just like they're happening now. It's just, just. Yeah. Was. It actually wasn't that different of a time.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Okay. So soon after she meets musician Tom Dunston in her acting class. He was 28 years old and had been touring with Billy Joel. She moved in with him a day after her 16th birthday. He would drop her off at Fairfax High School every morning. And while the age gap in this relationship was extremely problematic, Tom actually offered Demi a stability that she had never known. But she does move on from that stability when she meets another musician, Freddie moore, a married 29 year old. Within a month, 16 year old demi had left Tom for Freddie. It's also worth noting that Freddie was married to his high school sweetheart at the time that he met Demi. So I think that not to give her a free pass, but I also, I just think that given the way she was raised in, the environment she was raised in, it just seems like there was no real consideration for morality. No, it was just pleasure seeking, hedonism.

[Lauren]

Well, and I Think, to be honest, these men offered her stability.

[Chandler]

Mm. And she. She says in her memoir, like, I didn't honestly even really think about his wife.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chandler]

So very interesting.

[Lauren]

16, 17.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay. So a year later, after this, Danny Gynes, the man who raised me, commits suicide. And although his death was ruled as an accident because he had so much alcohol in his system, the medical examiner ruled that someone wouldn't be able to commit suicide in that state. And it seems to have been, like, an intentional carbon monoxide poisoning. By keeping his car running in the garage.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I guess if you're. If you're drunk enough, they can't really say whether it was intentional or not.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

But Demi says in her memoir she thinks it was intentional and also intentional that it wouldn't be able to be ruled a suicide, and she feels like the insurance money was a parting gift to his family.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

So. All right. Shortly thereafter, when she's around 18, her career takes off. She gets offered to do nude pictures for a Japanese magazine. And she's kind of sold this tale that, like, the photos will never see the light of day, you know, if they are sold only in the Japanese market. And so she does it. She actually just kind of leaves it there. She doesn't say. She didn't say. Oh. And then the photos came out, and I was so ashamed.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

And she. So it's basically. That was the reason, though, she agreed to do the pictures.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

She also did swimsuit shoots, and she was signed to Elite Model Management. Demi and Freddie were married soon after she turned 18. Demi had lots of doubts for her wedding. And actually, you guys, this is so wild. She sneaks out of her bachelorette party and cheats on Freddie the night before they got married.

[Lauren]

That's not a cry for help. I don't know what is we need.

[Chandler]

I mean, I'm gonna keep my all eyes on you right before your wedding. The day before. I can't even.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I can't even imagine being in that state of mind. You know what?

[Chandler]

I will say, this might sound crazy. Yeah. But I remember. I feel like the way bachelor parties and bachelorettes were discussed growing up in pop culture, just kind of, like, in teenage books or whatever. I always thought that, like, and this was just an idea I had, like, as a preteen, but the point of it was, like, it was like your last hookup with someone. Yeah.

[Lauren]

I think that's an idea for some people. Okay. I mean, it's like, the guys go to a strip club, gets strippers or Whatever. I don't know. But to me, I'm not. Not interested in that. Just, you know, to put it lightly. And also, it just hustle, like the opposite of where my head is actually at. Like, I'm. If anything, I'm at like the, you know, a peak of being in love.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

Versus, like, my eyes are, like wandering.

[Chandler]

Right. And I think. I think most people would agree. I think that it would be that the aberration to actually cheat on your partner right before you get married.

[Lauren]

Correct. But I do think there's also something about, like, there is a degree of, like it's a free pass, you know, like, yeah. Super weird. So she starts with a role on General Hospital with, you know, with acting, moving on from modeling. And she says that she was so embarrassed to drive her old beat up car to the studio that she actually ended up parking off site and walking in. And her first big purchase when she started making more money was a silver Honda Accord, which she proudly drove to the studio a lot. And I'll just say that I'm a proud Honda Accord driver.

[Chandler]

Oh, Honda Accords.

[Lauren]

To this day.

[Chandler]

I mean, Honda Accords are so reliable.

[Lauren]

They're so reliable. They'll just run. And anyway, I just. That was a moment of connection for me and Demi.

[Chandler]

If you're wearing a really expensive outfit and you drive a Honda Accord, I actually think it's a very chic high low moment.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Oh, that was backhanded.

[Chandler]

No, mon, I'm saying if you're in a super expensive outfit but you're in on a court, it's like, you know, you know about the. You're going for high low.

[Lauren]

Sure, sure, sure. No, it's true that it's an economical car. It's not a flashy car in any way, but that was backhanded. But I do appreciate it. Okay, so when she was 20, Demi ends up getting a role in Blame it on Rio, which was filmed in Brazil. I've never seen Blame it on Rio, have you?

[Chandler]

I've not seen Blame it on Rio.

[Lauren]

But you know what? And this is kind of a joke in slightly poor taste, but Demi can blame a lot of things on Rio because this is where her cocaine habits really start.

[Chandler]

Blame it on Rio.

[Lauren]

Blame it on Rio, baby. She says, you know, herself. I nearly burned a hole in my nostril in Brazil. And she's on this shoot. She also cheats on Friday again here.

[Chandler]

She'S just living large in Brazil. She says she spent so much money on cocaine that she moves into an apartment instead of a hotel so that she can spend less money like on her lodgings and more money from her per diem on cocaine.

[Lauren]

Once again, another mindset I can't imagine being in, but she says she gets back from Brazil and she tells Freddie about the infidelity and that she says she doesn't think they should be married. They get a divorce and Freddie moved on with a friend's 14 year old.

[Chandler]

Sister and apparently they're still a couple to this day.

[Lauren]

I kind of think it's interesting that she includes this detail.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it's so funny. It's like there's just a lot of like, okay. And then he started sleeping with a 14 year old in this book.

[Lauren]

Like once again, I keep going back to like, it was a different time, but it was also like not that different of a time. All I have to say is I'm actually very okay with being born in the era that I was born because it just feels like things were wacky and kind of not okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah, absolutely. So after this, Demi's career begins to falter and she's drinking heavily. She's in the throes of a full blown cocaine addiction. She first got her American cocaine from a dentist and then she got it from her business manager. Demi remarked how interesting it was that the person advising her on finances wasn't making any comments about the quantity of money she spent on drugs. But then again, she says he was using it too. Demi blow through most of her money during this time. So soon after Demi lands the role in the movie St. Elmo's Fire, as fittingly, a party girl named Jules. Her co stars would be Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez, Ali Sheedy and other actors. It was an iconic movie that cemented Demi as a member of the Brat Pack, a group of young actors who were fixtures of the 1980s movies scene.

[Lauren]

It's very funny because there's a scene from this movie which I've never seen, where one of the friends, they're at a club, I think it's probably St. Elmo's club or a bar. And the friend says, should we go home or something? And she goes and waste all that good coke.

[Chandler]

Oh, really?

[Lauren]

Yeah. Like it was fully like it was. There was life and then there was her art. And it was just like the exact same. She was like. She was a party girl in real life and she was playing a party girl on the show. But interestingly enough, the director of this movie is credited to some degree with like saving her. So she says that the director, Joel Shoemaker kind of calls out that she.

[Chandler]

Has this addiction in front of everyone.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And he says, in front of everyone. Like you said, if I hear of you having even one more beer, you're fired. And he walked out of the room and she's mortified. And so before even filming, she was required to check into the Betty ford Clinic at 21.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And she says that unbeknownst to her, the director and two producers of St. Elizabeth had wanted to help her quit alcohol and cocaine use. So. So they admitted her, which she later saw as some sort of divine intervention. She completed the 30 day program in just 15 days and was required to have a counselor with her 247 for the entire period of filming.

[Lauren]

So Demi writes of this time and she says, if I had to give up the movie and go through the program to get sober for myself, I doubt I would have done that. I just didn't value myself enough for that. But with this enormous support from Craig Joel and all his colleagues, who I didn't want to let down, I had something much bigger than me to fight for. And so. And so I did. And I think that what she's obviously getting at here is like, her acting was her lifeline. It was the only thing that, like, made her want to have a better life. You know, she didn't, like, she didn't have much else outside of that to not party for.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I feel like I kind of want to almost just drill down on this idea of like, not valuing yourself enough to get healthy for yourself. But you will if it matters to other people or for a film or maybe for something that you want for something external.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Like, it's just interesting. It just comes down to, I guess, this idea of self worth and how I think, especially as a young person, it can be really easy to have very low self worth.

[Lauren]

I mean, especially with the upbringing that she had.

[Chandler]

Yeah. So she ends up falling in love with Emilio, actually on the set of same Elmo's Fire. She loved Emilio's family, especially his father, Martin Sheen and brother Charlie Sheen, and really admired their close functional bonds. They were together for six months, then they were engaged and moved in together.

[Lauren]

So kind of this pattern of like moving extremely fast with. With relationships. And to me, substance abuse addiction starts to shift here into an eating disorder at this time. So I believe at this time she's like, sober.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

You know, and I think this happens with a lot of people who struggle with addiction, but, you know, it can shape shift where it's like, okay, I. I have Let go of, like, this side of things. But now I'm going to focus all of that control and all that, like, disease made me onto another aspect of my life.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I mean, she's obviously hyper fixates on certain things and she just gets into throws of this full blown eating disorder. And she kind of like directs the energy she was directing probably at drug use and partying towards controlling her body.

[Lauren]

So she landed the film about last night opposite Rob Lowe, and she remembers the director telling her that she needed to lose weight before filming began.

[Chandler]

She writes in her memoir. So then began my process of trying to dominate and control my body and of equating my worth to my weight, my size, and my exterior. So additionally, at this time, she's going through this eating disorder and her relationship with Emilio also starts to deteriorate. So she sends out wedding invites, but shortly thereafter, they postpone the wedding indefinitely. She says there are a lot of issues in the relationship, but mainly that he just did not prioritize her.

[Lauren]

Another thing she talks about right at this moment, you know, in the book, is that she was seeing a therapist. And the therapist says, you know, I usually let my clients make their own decisions, but I'm just gonna tell you, you should not marry this person. And I don't think that was like, because he's so bad or whatever, but it was just like, clearly things were going wrong and there were. There was other writing on the wall and the therapist was just like, I'm just gonna actually break the fourth wall.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

You know, you should not get married.

[Chandler]

I kind of wonder if that was though, like, because things were so bad, I think the therapist would have had to have thought that this guy was not fit for marriage.

[Lauren]

Yeah, exactly. Not fit for her. I don't know. I don't know much about him, but. But yeah, clearly it was not. Was not right.

[Chandler]

So they remained friends and she even accompanied him to the premiere of his film Stakeout a few months later. That ended up being an extremely important night for Demi because she met a hot new actor named Bruce Willis.

[Lauren]

Lauren, you and I both have a trip coming up where we are wanting to look our best. Thank goodness we have clean, simple eats. I had a scoop of the simply.

[Chandler]

Vanilla this morning just mixed with cold water. I swear, everyone, it tasted like melted ice cream. It's so good and it gives you the cleanest energy. It just. It feels amazing. It's 20 grams of clean grass fed protein. I'm so obsessed with Clean Simplete's protein powder. I'm so grateful they're a sponsor.

[Lauren]

Everyone go To Clean Simple Eats.com use our code POPAPOLOGIST for 10 off. We love their clear protein. We love their simply vanilla chocolate brownie batter and their new unflavored protein powder that can go into anything.

[Chandler]

You guys, Clean simple eats is the way to get the protein that you need. And we all know that getting a lot of protein in is the key to building muscle mass, to maintaining your vigor, your youth, your vitality.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

And the way to do that is with clean simpletes using our code bitches. Love ya.

[Lauren]

Popapologist for 10% off cleansandbelets.com Lauren so a friend was telling me the other day how much she loves the early bird tincture. She says it's like the best night's sleep of her life. And that's a very, like, subtle feeling.

[Chandler]

Okay, I need to try the tincture. I've only tried the gummies. You know, I'm obsessed with the gummies. I've turned on so many fronts to them.

[Lauren]

I feel like what's special about early.

[Chandler]

Bird is the formulation. It's 12.5mg CBD, 2.5mg THC. So it just makes you feel so warm and melty, relaxed, gooey.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I feel like there's no worry that I'm going to be two in my head. It's just cozy, and it's just an easy way to take the edge off and have the most amazing night's sleep.

[Chandler]

You guys, if you have not tried early bird gummies, they're a life changer. And honestly, the bottle is big. It lasts a long time. Go to earlybirdcbd.com use code POP20 for 20 off. A big discount.

[Lauren]

Huge discount.

[Chandler]

Earlybirdcbd.com use code pop20 for 20% off. This is such a fun story. I'm so glad to dive into this.

[Lauren]

So when Demi met Bruce at the stakeout after party, Bruce was immediately interested in Demi. And like, this is they're movie stars and this story is fully out of a movie. So he asked to buy her a drink, and she says that she doesn't drink. And then he immediately says, well, let me buy you a Perrier. Bruce invited Demi then to a friend's comedy show after the after party. When she got there, Bruce and all of his friends were sitting at tables in the front together. And Bruce had set up a table for two with a Perrier waiting for Demi. When he asked for her number at the end of the night, she asked him if he had a pen he didn't and ran off to grab one. Then he wrote Demi's number on his arm. She didn't know much about him and had never been asked on a real date before. After all of her previous relationships had happened out of convenience and proximity rather than being pursued and pursued in this, like, really, you know, romantic, sweeping way.

[Chandler]

One might call it. Perhaps channeling a little bit of Travis Kelce energy. Okay.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes.

[Chandler]

So we're gonna listen to a clip about Bruce pursuing Demi.

[C]

It was a stretch limousine in the next lane with Bruce Willis and his buddies poking up through the open sunroof, waving and shouting, hey, Demi. This was before the days of the ever present. Black SUVs, faring celebrities everywhere. When Bruce was partying, he'd hire a limo to take him and his friends out for the night in style. I couldn't believe I was looking out my window at the guy I'd just been thinking about. It was like the universe was telling me, pay attention to this one. Bruce flipped his baseball cap off to salute me when our eyes met. And I guess he'd forgotten he'd stashed a joint behind each ear because they went flying into the night.

[Lauren]

So darling. Such a. Like a literal movie moment.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Just so cinematic. And she and Bruce, they really have this, like, incredible whirlwind romance. They were apparently, from the moment that they met, inseparable. They had a lot in common. Difficult childhoods, parents who did not get along, and not a lot of money growing up. Bruce had a stutter when he was young, which actually got him into acting for some reason. Kids who stutter often are freed from their speech impediment when they are reciting their minds.

[Lauren]

So after just a few months together, Bruce and Demi were in Las Vegas for a boxing match, and they were moving to the gambling tables when Bruce said, I think we should just get married. They've been joking about it on the flight to Vegas, but this time Bruce was serious, so they did. Demi got pregnant on their wedding night, November 21, 1987, at the Golden Nugget Casino. I think there's something sweet about her being like. And I got pregnant that very night. I don't know, it's just like a. It's sweet. I find it endearing.

[Chandler]

I mean, I'm curious how she knows that, like, if they were so hot and heavy for each other, Right.

[Lauren]

They would have just been like, any day.

[Chandler]

Any day.

[Lauren]

I don't know. But it was that night.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

They had a real wedding a month later, which was much More of a production. So the studio that, you know, I think they were both working with gave them their wedding as a gift and was on a Warner Brothers soundstage and was officiated by Little Richard with Annie Leibowitz as the photographer. And then they had a Copacabana themed reception at a neighboring soundstage. So it was just all very movie, movie themed.

[Chandler]

It's funny just how much value these studios know that these celebrity couples bring to them. Like, they're like, well, as a gift, why don't you get married on our studio lot and then we'll have all this, like, marketing materials and intrigue and content around your relationship. I just thought that was a little bit funny. So their first daughter, Rumer, was born in Kentucky, where Bruce was on location shooting a movie. Demi loved pregnancy and motherhood, and it was one of the things that she felt like she was innately good at. It was over two years before Demi left Rumer for even one single night.

[Lauren]

So after having Rumer, Bruce and Demi moved to Haley, Idaho and spent as much time there as possible. And Demi says now that raising their girls in Idaho and away from California was one of the best decisions that they ever made, which I don't think I really clocked that until reading her book, that, like, they didn't grow up with, like, the LA childhood as much as some of their other, you know, famous friends, fellow Nepo babies did.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I think that they might have been jet setting and going on PJs. I mean, one thing that we should have mentioned is, like, Demi talks about when she first meets Bruce, he flies in a private jet and, like, it's a very, very other world that she's experiencing his level of success. And she talks about that kind of gets mirrored when she meets Ashton. Right. He's a young actor and he's kind of up and coming and she's already super successful. And it was his first time, like, flying private and all that. But back to Hailey. I just feel like the girls probably had this very glamorous childhood, but being rooted somewhere that was a lot more grounded, I will say, than LA was probably really healthy for the entire family.

[Lauren]

Right. Okay. So, you know, during this time, Demi's mother, Ginny, is totally unraveling. So she'd been arrested numerous times and Demi had put her into rehab. Demi is now living this full a lister Hollywood life. She has resources to, like, help her family. And immediately upon Ginny's release, she begins selling stories to the tabloids about their difficult relationship. And Demi feels violated and Exploited. And she asked her mother to, you know, stop selling stories about her. And Ginny agrees. But then she started selling pictures of Demi instead. And you have to think that maybe. I'm sure there was some type of direct deposit situation where maybe Demi was, like, supporting her financially. So it was just like, why was her mom continuing to.

[Chandler]

My guess is there wasn't.

[Lauren]

You don't think so? You don't think she was supporting her at all?

[Chandler]

No.

[Lauren]

Maybe.

[Chandler]

I mean, I can see her paying for rehab, but if she's selling stories about her, that. To me, that says there was not a check coming.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I guess so. I guess. But, yeah, anyway, it's just. It's really, really sad. Not that Demi, like, owes her mom a check, but it's just like. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like. I mean, also to be that deplorable that you would, like, sell stories about your daughter and then photos, you're beyond help.

[Chandler]

Okay, so she's a mom in Idaho, but she starts to kind of, like, reactivate her career. And in that process, she wants to get her body looking better than ever. She loses all of the baby weight in three months and hosts snl. Soon after she was cast in the film Were no Angels. She was surprised that Bruce was not excited about her taking this job. Bruce said, quote, this will never work, meaning their life wouldn't work if she was involved with something outside of their family. Bruce and Demi had had this, like, whirlwind relationship. Dating, married, pregnant, all of it very quickly. And Demi realizes he has actually never been with me while I'm filming a movie, like, while I'm doing my profession. And Bruce did not like it.

[Lauren]

Right. This is when, like, some serious cracks start to show. You know, he was always able to be the top priority, and he didn't love that she was going to be on a location for a movie now.

[Chandler]

Yeah. She said he had kind of, like a king mindset, and he really didn't like that. All of a sudden it was, like, about her and, like, what she was going to be doing and not just all about him.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I think one of my takeaways from her memoir is she was surrounded by so many bad men in her childhood that she just gives so many passes to the men in her life. And maybe that ultimately, you know, serves her well because she's able to have such a great relationship with Bruce Willis throughout their entire life, but it's like he's kind of an asshole to her, and she's just like. But, you know, he's just. He hadn't experienced me shining before, so it makes sense.

[Lauren]

But she was already a star in her own right. Maybe she wasn't on his level, but what did he expect? Expect that she was just going to likefully let her career die? Yeah.

[Chandler]

No, I mean, apparently he's a.

[Lauren]

He was a total to her. Yeah.

[Chandler]

And apparently he wanted her at home, like, as his wife. And I also think that maybe part of the culture and at the time was like, that was kind of what was expected. Like, you're getting married, so, like, your. Your priorities are shifting.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

And they're going to be about your husband and your family and not about your career. And maybe that for him was, like, just unsaid.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Whereas now that's, like, not.

[Lauren]

It's not a given.

[Chandler]

Women don't get married. And then all of a sudden, the idea is like, their identities are subsumed by their families anymore.

[Lauren]

So her professional life is soaring because Ghost has just come out, and her marriage is totally struggling. And Bruce says to her, I don't know if I want to be married. And she says back to him, well, you are married and you have a kid, so what do you want to do? Everything happened so quickly for Bruce and Demi that it was almost like he was just now realizing that he missed the excitement and novelty of his single life. So it's a little bit also, like, maybe, yeah, he didn't want to be married.

[Chandler]

I just think that, you know, you're a young Hollywood actor and you have the world at your feet. You have women just constantly wanting you. I can imagine that the. That's like a drug. And I can imagine once the high of the honeymoon phase wears off and you're in monogamy, I can imagine that he had some withdrawals from his life pre Demi.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Chandler]

Not excusing it in any way, but I just think that, yeah, it's human.

[Lauren]

And she suspects that maybe he wasn't faithful to her while he was on location filming a movie after that conversation, but nothing was ever confirmed. And then the film wrapped, and they got pregnant with their second daughter, and he was just over the moon. And it was like that earlier conversation just never happened.

[Chandler]

So it was during her second pregnancy, for her daughter, Scout, that she shot the iconic cover of Vanity Fair featuring her pregnant belly. It was shot by Annie Leibovitz, and the COVID image was actually just intended to be a portrait meant for Bruce. So on set, when they're doing the photo shoot, they just do the nude just for Bruce. But then I Guess it's like so exquisite. Vanity Fair uses it. And Demi is shocked by this. And there's a huge cultural outcry because at the time, women when they were pregnant really, like, basically hid, like they tried to hide their pregnancies. It was not seen as erotic or beautiful. It was kind of. It was just not supposed to be, like, witnessed almost. And so there was just like this outcry of rage almost at this, like, how dare you try to be sexy and pregnant.

[Lauren]

I didn't realize that this photo shoot kind of kicked off all these. This now iconic pose that so many pregnant women do. I didn't know that.

[Chandler]

I mean, I literally feel like you don't even have to be an influencer.

[Lauren]

No.

[Chandler]

Like, anyone would have posted an almost like naked photo of themselves. Exactly. On Instagram now.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Especially like. Yeah, I think that like, even just like literal. Her exact pose, it's replicated across magazine covers and Instagram.

[Chandler]

Yes. So she's really surprised by the backlash, but ultimately she says she's extremely proud of it.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

So unfortunately, during that time, Demi's mom was still trying to get any sort of success or attention that she could out of being Demi's mom. And nude photos begin to surface of her in tabloids, mimicking shots that Demi had done for magazines. And Demi says that once Scout is born, she cuts her mother out of her life for a full eight years. She felt like she had tried to help her so much, but nothing ever changed.

[Lauren]

So Demi is extremely concerned about her body throughout her pregnancy with Scout because she knows that she's going to be shooting A Few Good Men too, just a couple months after Scout was born. So she begins to obsess over exercise in a way that she really hadn't before. And Demi was horrified that her exercise affected her breast milk, and it caused her milk to not have enough fat necessary for baby Scout to gain weight.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And she apparently she switches to formula to be able to continue her eating disorder, essentially. So Demi's exercise obsession continues for the next five years, including for her next movie, Indecent Proposal, one of my favorites. Soon after that film, she becomes pregnant with her third daughter, Tallulah, who was born in 1994. Meg Ryan, who was one of Demi's good friends, came up with the idea for the name of Tallulah during a girls vacation. Bruce initially didn't love the name, but he eventually came around.

[Lauren]

Yeah, it's like dad, in my name. Dad didn't like.

[Chandler]

Oh, really?

[Lauren]

He didn't? No, actually, I don't even Know if he's come around. I've never. We've never. So hopefully he does like it now, but if not, who cares?

[Chandler]

Exactly. I mentioned them. Opinions, right?

[Lauren]

Yeah. Just kidding. Love you, dad. Two years later, Demi signs on to DO striptease and GI Jane. Her striptease paycheck was $12.5 million, making her the highest paid actress in Hollywood at the time. She was very proud of the rate, but she was also frustrated with the fact that publications nicknamed her Give Me More and shamed her for wanting to earn as much as possible for her work. Meanwhile, just for some context, Bruce Willis is getting a rate of $20 million per movie. It's just like the double standard.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it's interesting how. And I think that this, like, plays out in so many places across culture, but women having success and having money really is troubling for people.

[Lauren]

It's very troubling. It's very unnerving. It's destabilizing, really. Don't like.

[Chandler]

Yes. And it's just. It's so bizarre. They called you Gimme Moore.

[C]

There were some things like that. Why shouldn't I. Why shouldn't all women be paid equal to the quality of the work they're doing?

[Chandler]

It's interesting. I feel like even we on this podcast, or me, I have said I've been a little critical of Kim Kardashian. She has so much and she talks on the show. She just wants more, more, more, more, more. And, like, doesn't ever want to stop, really. And I think I've kind of, you know, maybe had my own moment where I've just been like, girl, why not just, like, enjoy the fruits of your labors? Like, why the necessity to do so much? But it really is, I think, just something culturally that we have been taught to react negatively to. Whereas when a man is very ambitious, it is just seen as, I think, instinctively people just applaud it.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

[Chandler]

Maybe, maybe not, though, because I think.

[Lauren]

I think less.

[Chandler]

So now you'll hear like, men are workaholics and, like, yeah, totally ignore their families or whatever.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I think it's definitely less than not. I do think the double standard still definitely exists.

[Chandler]

And I guess I'm just thinking out.

[Lauren]

Loud, and I do think him is greedy.

[Chandler]

I'm just thinking out loud. And, like, ultimately, we should all strive for a balance. And, like, if we do have children, men or women aside, there should be a balance of your ambitions and a balance of your time dedicated to, you know, those young lives.

[Lauren]

But I don't think this is necessarily even about, like, greed or balance, because it's just like, hey, I'm doing this role, and men are getting paid double, if not nearly double for it.

[Chandler]

I was talking about Kim, my commentary toward Kim on previous episodes. But, yeah, no, this. This was just cultural outrage that she was making so much money.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I think that, like, people didn't care about the double standard. So immediately after striptease, she begins training for GI Jane. And this movie is not as critically acclaimed as some of the other films, but it is the film she's most proud of due to the physical and mental strength that was needed for the film. So she had to complete a two week modified SEAL training session in preparation for the film, as well as a huge amount of working out to get her body ready for such a rigorous shoot.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it was an immense physical challenge. And it was sad to read about in the book, where she just talks about how, you know, she's put in so much work, so much physical work for this movie. She loved the script. She thought it was gonna be so great, and then it just basically, like, you know, flops.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Chandler]

But after the shoot, Demi, I just.

[Lauren]

Have to say, you know, like our Blake Lively, she really treated this like an Olympic training event.

[Chandler]

That's true. It's true. So after the shoot, Demi says she was ready to lose the weight she had gained for GI Jane, but it wasn't coming off. With her normal tactics of extreme exercise and few calories. Demi was so exhausted by this constant hamster wheel she's on with her body that she says she just stops. She turns her home gym into an office, and she begins to practice intuitive eating. And she says that this is when it's kind of funny because she's like, and this is when I lost 30 pounds and I finally made peace with my body and just, like, remain thin. I do think, though, that, like, a lot of people talk about that, like, the obsessing and, like, the rules. If you are a person that lives by a lot of food rules, that can lead to a lot of obsessing and binging. And binging. I mean, I've had periods of my life like that in my 20s, and I feel like when you. Yeah, there is a sort of, like, homeostasis that you arrive at when you just realize, like, I'm never gonna be someone who just eats, like kale.

[Lauren]

Kale, Exactly.

[Chandler]

Suddenly, like, all the really decadent food, it doesn't hold so much power over you because you can always access it.

[Lauren]

Right. I used to Listen to this, like, intuitive eating podcast, and it talked about how, like, you should go to the store and you should buy all the foods that, like, you would binge on Oreos, whatever you want to eat and just, like, buy as much of it as you want and then tell yourself you can eat as much of it as you want. And anyway, they just, like, they were like, this will be uncomfortable. It might lead you some to some binging. At first.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

But then soon thereafter, that food won't hold that same power because it's like, oh, I can have that tomorrow if I want.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

You know, it's like, I only get it this once, so I need to eat as much of it as possible.

[Chandler]

It's a huge psychological shift.

[Lauren]

So after completing GI Jane and striptease, her marriage to Bruce was suffering more than ever. She says it was basically, you know, just a marriage of logistics. And at the same time, she received news that her mother was dying from lung cancer and a brain tumor.

[Chandler]

So over the next few months, Demi stayed with her family in New Mexico and took care of her mother. It was then that she was also able to make peace with her mother. When you had the opportunity to have.

[C]

Closure and healing with your mom, why did you take it? You know, there was something, you know, I had somewhat of an estranged relationship at the point that I heard that my mother was. Had cancer and was dying. First of all, the nature of our relationship, I didn't trust it. I thought it was maybe a scam, which is already, like, a weird thing to experience with. And so when I just. When I got the call, I justthere was an intuition, an instinct that said, you need to go and be there. And I had already gotten to a place where I didn't have anger towards her. I really was in a certain level of acceptance, even though there was still more healing that needed to be done. And it was. It was the greatest gift. I went and ended up taking care of her for the last three and a half months of her life. She never really apologized. She never was able to get to that place, even within herself. But what she did say is, I wish it could have been different. Which told me that she knew that not everything was okay. And that was enough. That was. And I didn't expect it. So it was a beautiful gift. And I, you know, we. At the very end, we threw birthday parties for her every week. There was a lot of humor, and so I feel like I walked away with more of her than I had when I went in.

[Lauren]

Okay, everyone, let's Talk about skims for a minute. I don't know why it took me so long to finally try Skims underwear, but I am just so happy that I finally did because let me tell you, it is worth the hype. I'm totally obsessed and there's no going back to other brands. I am a little bit of a thong snob, you could say. And nothing beats the Fits Everybody collection. It is, hands down the most comfortable underwear I've ever worn. It's seamless, fits me like a glove, and just kind of melts onto my body. And I seriously forget that I'm wearing it. And we all know how annoying it is when underwear is uncomfortable. In fact, I think there's like no worse feeling. And I promise you, you do not have to worry about that with skims. The Fits Everybody collection is available in sizes extra extra small to 4x. You can shop now at skims.com and skims New York flagship on 5th Ave. After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select Pop Apologist in the drop down menu that follows. So after her mom passes, Bruce and Demi make the decision to separate. But they had not made the news public yet. But somehow a publication got tipped off and they don't know whether it was from a friend or a family member. But you know, I think the fact that like, you're dealing with this intense grief about your family member and your marriage and then the fact that somebody might have somebody close to you might have sold you out, it's just like really harrowing.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it's a horrible time for her. And I think a lot of celebrities have so much fear that their friends aren't genuine and are using them. And so I think to be like, oh my gosh, there's someone in my circle who is that person and I know who they are.

[Lauren]

Right. Well. And I think as well, this means that they then have to announce it a lot sooner than they want to. So they decided to get ahead of the story and they announced their separation to the tabloids. Their divorce was finalized in 2000 after 13 years of marriage.

[Chandler]

It was a very public divorce. And Demi wrote in her memoir, it's a funny thing to say, but I'm very proud of our divorce. I think Bruce was fearful at the beginning that I was going to make our split difficult and that I would express my anger and whatever baggage that I had for our marriage by obstructing his access to the kids that I turned to all Those ploys divorcing couples use as weapons. But I didn't, and neither did he.

[Lauren]

So on a positive note, they proved to have a really loving post marriage relationship, and they put their girls first throughout the entire process. Bruce bought a property across the street from Demi in Idaho, and they created a family compound of sorts. You know, a coyote pass, if you will. Not to say that, you know, post marriage life was particularly easy for the family or for Demi, but it seemed that they had a, you know, as loving of a transition as they could.

[Chandler]

It was just Chandler. It was just like the cul de sac in Vegas. Okay.

[Lauren]

You know, that's what I was picturing when I read that.

[Chandler]

The halcyon days. Ugh. For why am I blanking on their last name?

[Lauren]

Browns.

[Chandler]

The Browns for the Brown family. Thank you. Years later, Bruce said of co parenting with Demi, we've become like a tribe. It's generated a lot of interest because everyone can understand the resentment and envy in a breakup of a marriage, but they don't understand how it can get along with my ex like that. Demi and I made a choice to put the kids first, and we're really lucky that it turns out we have a lot of fun together. I still love her and I have a lot of respect for how she lives her life. For the next five years, Demi focused on being a full time mom and being fully present and involved in her daughter's lives. Demi describes bringing her girls to all their activities, playing with them for hours, and devoting her life to them. She wasn't looking for love, but three years after her divorce, Demi unexpectedly was swept off her feet again by none.

[Lauren]

Other than Ashton Kutcher, a 25 year old, you know, aspiring actor and entrepreneur.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah. Do you know who set them up? Chan or who basically had the party that Demi.

[Lauren]

No, I don't know.

[Chandler]

This is like so wild. Sarah Foster. Oh, really?

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Chandler]

So, yes, Demi walks into this party hosted by Sarah Foster, and she meets Ashton Kutcher. They were instantly smitten with each other.

[Lauren]

She Sundays, he was 25. I was 40. But I'm telling you, we couldn't feel it. We were totally in sync from our very first conversation. She recalls how driven and focused Ashton was at the time. He was, you know, the peak of his early 2000s coolness with punk, that 70s show, all those things. And he didn't seem to be scared off by their age gap at all. For Demi, stepping back into a younger dynamic was something she was ready for.

[Chandler]

She says, keep in mind, when I was 20, 5. I became a mom. I skipped straight from being a young adult into motherhood and marriage. When I met Ashton, it almost felt like a do over. Like I could just go back in time and experience what it was like to be young with him. Much more so than I had ever been able to experience it when I was actually in my 20s. So this is a clip of Demi opening up about her marriage to Ashton Kutcher.

[Lauren]

And I think I remember this. Like, I remember this in the tabloids and just being like. I mean, I don't know how old I was at this point, but I. I remember being taken with the two of them.

[Chandler]

Oh. I mean, I thought they were so hot, and it was, like, such a fun moment. Yeah, I know everyone was so caught up in the age difference, but they were just a hot, fun couple. And I was a Stan.

[C]

I think that I had been responsible for so much of my life, and all of a sudden, this window opened up where I was safe. I had money. He loved my children. It wasn't something he feared. He seemed to be comfortable with the enormity of the ex husband. I mean, you know, I felt like I was not coming with baggage. I had trunks.

[Chandler]

They made their first red carpet appearance in June 2003 at the Charlie's Angel Full Throttle premiere. And it was really sweet because Bruce and their three daughters also walked the red carpet with them, showing that they were all a team together. I mean, iconic.

[Lauren]

Iconic. Yeah, iconic. Early on in their relationship, Demi became pregnant with a fourth baby, a daughter she and Ashton had named Chaplain Ray. Sadly, they lost the baby when she was six months along, just days before they were planning on announcing her pregnancy publicly. I did not really know this, obviously, until her book, but it's just so heartbreaking to be, you know, six months along. I just. I mean, it makes my, like, heart and body hurt for the two of them.

[Chandler]

It's really, really sad. And you can hear in her book how much she really wants to have a baby with Ashton. I mean, this love for them, and I think for him at this moment was very pure. It was very real. They were gonna spend their lives together, and so they were just absolutely devastated. Demi says she had started drinking again not long after she had become pregnant. And there's a story in the book where Demi says that she's with Ashton. I believe they're in Mexico. Yeah, I think they're at Hotel Essencia.

[Lauren]

You know, the hotel is better than me.

[Chandler]

I feel like that. And if memory serves, and she says that he says that he doesn't think alcoholism is a real thing. In that moment, she really wants to be like the fun girlfriend.

[Lauren]

Yeah. He says it's like a state of or some BS like that. And she has like this, in this moment of just like, okay, maybe I can do this. Maybe, you know, I, I want to be the cool girlfriend having a drink with her boyfriend at dinner.

[Chandler]

You can understand how you would think maybe I was a different person when I had all these issues and maybe I'll be fine now.

[Lauren]

Yep.

[Chandler]

So she breaks her sobriety and she had started drinking then not long after she had become pregnant. And so there's a little bit, I think, of some blame, blaming herself happening for losing the baby, which is sad. The media was super focused on their age gap and they could not believe this relationship would be successful. There is a moment where Ashton hosts SNL and Demi is in the audience. And Ashton, we'll just play this clip because it's pretty cute.

[C]

There's so much of these so called.

[Lauren]

Celebrity magazines that focus on our age difference and I don't get it because all that I focus on is that she is the best thing that has ever happened to me and she's here tonight to me. I love you, baby.

[C]

You're doing great, baby.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, he really is such a little cutie. And she. And the joke is that for those not watching, the joke is she's like dressed up like an old lady and she has all this like makeup on to make her look super old. You know, that's the appropriate moment, I think, to like take the piss out of yourself, to just like have a moment of levity on, maybe a public discussion, public fodder. I would say, unlike perhaps the way Blake and Ryan used SNL to have a moment to maybe let out some tension.

[Lauren]

Are you going to talk about that?

[Chandler]

I mean, I just think we can say because it's coming out tomorrow and this just happened, that it's a little too soon.

[Lauren]

Just wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. I'm glad that they're finding this all to be funny.

[Chandler]

I know, exactly. I'm glad. This is just so hilarious for them.

[Lauren]

Yeah. But back to Demi.

[Chandler]

But back to Demi. So they're married in September 2005 in front of a hundred guests at their home in Beverly Hills. They kept it a secret. So many friends in attendance just thought they were going to a housewarming party and not a wedding. It's like so common for celebrities, which makes sense.

[Lauren]

Obviously. Soon after their wedding, they begin fertility treatments in hopes of getting pregnant again, but they were not able to get pregnant. And it was during this time that Demi really feels betrayed by her body and less secure in their marriage. You know, she wrote that she, quote, went into contortions to try to fit the mold of the woman he wanted his wife to be. In Ashton's defense in this moment, I think that, you know, it makes a lot of sense that there are these biological factors that neither of them could ignore. And she wanted to be able to give him a child, you know, something that someone who was a lot younger maybe would have had less trouble with, you know, and that's just like a really, just. I don't know, it's a sad fact in reality of that situation. And I think that put them then in this, like, more strained place.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I think that I just wish she had. Maybe she was just clearly so in love with him and so caught up in it and wanted to be exactly what he wanted, but I just wish she had said, maybe I don't need to take advice from a 25 year old on whether alcoholism is a real thing or not. Like, I just kind of. I think on some level, it's just, I kind of wish she had, like.

[Lauren]

You know, more like, wherewithal kind of.

[C]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And kind of like more awareness of his age. Like, she should have felt it a little more.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

Because she should have had a little more life experience and wisdom to know that maybe he wasn't totally.

[Lauren]

That he didn't have all the answers 100%. But, yeah, I think with the alcoholism, for sure, she should have been like, well, come talk to me in 15 years.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

But I think then getting into, like, them trying to have a baby together, it's just. Just really sad and complicated.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And it makes sense that she wants to give him a child.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So she goes on, because I think this, like, to set the stage for the place that they're in, in their relationship. She says, I put him first. So when he expressed his fantasy of bringing a third person into our bed, I didn't say no. I wanted to show him how great and fun I could be. There were two different people we opened our relationship to, and they didn't have bad intentions. They were good people, but it was still a mistake, end quote. Another thing I want to just, like, touch on here. She really talks about how she wanted to show him how great and fun she could be with the drinking at the. The dinner in Mexico and then here. And it was like, well, it's not just your relationship, isn't just about showing your partner how fun you are.

[Chandler]

Right. For sure.

[Lauren]

You know, there should, by this point, there should be more, I don't know, depth to that or he should have. Yeah, I don't know.

[Chandler]

I think that that is coming at it from a much more like, elevated psychological place. Like, I think that's coming at it from. With a very evolved point of view. Whereas I think a lot of women in relationships are primarily focused on seeking approval and validation. And so they don't have the wherewithal to say, well, you may want this, but that's not actually appropriate for us. And, like, this is the reason why. And they're not willing to, like, she might have just not been up for risking losing him.

[Lauren]

Totally. And I think, think once again, if you are in a relationship where there's that imbalance in ages, then there is a little bit of a power dynamic. It's like this person is young and so therefore they're like, automatically fun and great and I need to, like, make sure that I'm pulling my end of the fun weight. Exactly.

[Chandler]

Yeah. No, exactly. That's so true. Okay, so this is a clip of her talking to Ellen about why she opened up her marriage to threesomes. I didn't realize Ellen got into those kind of topics. I thought Ellen was.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah, Ellen got into it all.

[Chandler]

Wow.

[C]

It was a mission guided sense of not really wanting to look maybe at the harder question or maybe what was really missing, or in my case, because I really felt like I had created an addiction to him, that I was, you know, that my codependency in a way I'd never had before, I never had that kind of attachment.

[Chandler]

The week before Ashton and Demi's sixth anniversary in September 2011, Ashton went to Danny Masterson's bachelor party. When he got back, Demi said she felt like something was off. But Ashton didn't say anything. Instead, he took her back to the piece of land he took her to on their first date. The piece of land he bought with plans to build their dream house. Even more, they'd been making progress in their fertility process and had decided to use an egg donor for their hopes of having a baby together. They had recently found the donor they wanted to use.

[Lauren]

First of all, that land taking her to the land is very Meredith Gray McDreamy.

[Chandler]

Oh, you know, I thought you were gonna go back to Coyote Pass, but I'm so grateful to be there.

[Lauren]

Another. Another great love story. So they're making progress with the egg donor, and the next day Demi has to go to New York for press for a project she's involved with. And right before she has to go on the red carpet, she learns via a Google alert that Ashton had cheated on her with a 22 year old administrative assistant named Sarah Leal that he met during the bachelor party and that he told Sarah that he and Demi were separated. So she literally gets a Google alert, like maybe the most awful way to find out something like this. And then she has to go out on the red carpet.

[Chandler]

Right. So when she gets back into town, Ashton acts like a completely different person. Like he was completely done with the marriage. Demi asked if they could start counseling, which they did. But Ashton was not truly invested in making the marriage work.

[C]

Work.

[Chandler]

Demi says that their threesomes actually caused Ashton to stray from their relationship more than once. Quote, because we had brought in a third party into our relationship. Ashton said that blurred the lines and to some extent justified what he'd done quickly.

[Lauren]

Just talking about this exclusive story that broke it also was just like a lot more than like a headline that was like Ashton Kutcher, you know, confirmed cheats with one night stand or whatever. Like this person talks to Us Weekly about how they had sex twice. And you know that it was like, like it was like a full all night kind of like thing. It wasn't just like, it's all cheating, but it's like it wasn't just like this like one sloppy moment.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

You know?

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

And that they have like conversations about political beliefs. And at one point he says, I enjoy things like this because I'm an actor 90% of the time and it's fake. It's nice to have moments that are real.

[Chandler]

Oh my gosh. So like you said, it's not once something where he's super drunk at a party, like him and a girl and it's just whatever, a sloppy moment. It's like, no, it's like a full night.

[Lauren]

It's like hours and hours and do.

[Chandler]

Like conversations about life and like moments to pull the brakes.

[Lauren]

Yes. Yeah.

[Chandler]

That he does not take advantage of.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

So she releases a statement that they are dissolving their marriage on November 17, 2011. And the statement for me, I think that it's like, so it just goes to show the way she like her emotional investment. She says, it is with a great sadness and a heavy heart that I have decided to end my six year marriage to Ashton. As a woman, a mother and a wife, there are certain values and vows that I hold sacred. And it is in that spirit that I have chosen to move Forward with my life. This is a trying time for me and my family. And so I would ask for the same compassion and privacy that you would give to anyone in a similar situation. It's just that line that there are certain values and vows that I hold sacred. And it is in this spirit that I've chosen to move forward with my life. I think that's just like such a digging line to.

[Lauren]

So damning.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

So Ashton files for divorce December 16, 2012. And she responds three months later, seeking spousal support and attorney fees from Ashton, who had earned a reported 24 million in the previous year for his role in Two and a Half Men. And then their divorce finalized the year following.

[Chandler]

This is also very interesting to know. So they get divorced December 16, 2012.

[Lauren]

So later on, Ashton talks about the divorce and he talks about the grief from losing their baby girl. Chaplin, he says, losing a kid you think you're going to have. And that close to thinking you're going to have a kid is really, really painful. Everyone deals with that in different ways.

[Chandler]

Coping through the pain. Demi broke her 20 year sobriety and began abusing substances like Vicodin and alcohol. Demi described herself as isolated and in anguish. She weighed just 102 pounds. Then in 2012, she was partying with Rumer and some of their friends when she was rushed to the hospital after suffering a seizure following smoking synthetic marijuana and inhaling nitrous oxide at a party. So I asked my husband, I was like, can you have a seizure from marijuana, pot and inhaling nitrous oxide?

[Lauren]

What's synthetic marijuana?

[Chandler]

I kind of was like, maybe they. She did something harder but didn't want to admit it. But then she's like, admitted all this cocaine use.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

But what Kagan said is that recreational use of nitrous oxide suffocates your brain.

[Lauren]

Oh, interesting.

[Chandler]

Makes me a little scared though, because I do like nitrous at the dentist.

[Lauren]

Well, I think that's not necessarily. I wouldn't call that recreationally. It's not like you're using it to unwind.

[Chandler]

I just didn't realize that it was.

[Lauren]

Like, so I know it's dangerous. Yeah, it is dangerous. But also maybe combining it with other things. Right.

[Chandler]

And I don't know what synthetic marijuana.

[Lauren]

I don't know either. Yeah.

[Chandler]

Okay, so this is Demi talking about that event.

[Lauren]

She breathing normally?

[C]

No, not so normal, but more sort of shaking. Everyone else was witnessing my body flailing. My daughter terrified that she was going to see me die right in front of her and within me. I was in a place that was thinking, wow, how did I get in here? Isn't this interesting? And then my very next thought was, oh, I wonder if I can get out. And all of a sudden, I was back in my body. And I think it was a moment that I was somehow being given a choice.

[Chandler]

Do you think it was that close?

[C]

I think certainly emotionally it was. I think something had to give. When you come up to those. Those places, you either go in or you go out.

[Chandler]

So it's really sad. So after this event, her daughters and Bruce start pulling away from her. They demanded that she go to rehab, to which she was confused, and she didn't feel like she had a substance abuse problem. But Moore was dealing with the long reaching effects of a lifetime of trauma.

[Lauren]

Part of my life was clearly unraveling. This is what she tells the New York Times, which talks about the fact that she's now sober. She says, I had no career, no relationship. And then her health began to deteriorate, and basic tasks like reading and watching TV became incapacitated. She was also experiencing autoimmune and digestive problems. You know, her body is breaking down. She says something was going on, including my organs slowly shutting down.

[Chandler]

So little by little, she starts to kind of, like, piece things back together. She goes to rehab for trauma codependency and substance abuse and works with a doctor specializing in integrative medicine to rectify her health problems. Gradually, she begins to reconcile with her daughters. One thing she talks about that I thought was, like, extremely poignant was at this time, when her daughters weren't speaking to her, is really the time when she learned to be alone and learned to not have your purpose be for someone else.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Your husband, your kids, her mom. She finally, you know, she's not really working at this time. She's just kind of being. She actually, like, describes this as very important for her to have experienced. I think. I think it was three years.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Where they were, like, not on good terms.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I think it's just interesting, like, especially women, we're just so, like, in service, and we're so, like. We're such limbs of the tree of our life. Right, right. And so to kind of be, like, blown away and just on your own for a good while. Right. Would be a very instructive period. And I do think that that's like, a beautiful way of looking at that, because it would be so traumatic as a mother. Do not have that time with your daughters. But she says she actually really learned a lot from learning to just be by herself.

[Lauren]

Right, right. And they were older at this point. You know, it's not like they're young and.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So, you know, over the past decade, her career, she's not in as many movies as she used to be, but she's worked on movies in different capacities. TV commercials, and has done voice work for a podcast called Dirty Diana. She famously roasted Bruce Willis in 2018. And, you know, the roast is really iconic, and it shows their deep Bond, even after 18 years.

[C]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And it shows the playfulness of their relationship, which is really cute. So we're just gonna play a little clip.

[C]

What you might not know. Bruce is super. I mean, really generous. I mean, when our daughter Rumer was a baby and it was his turn to change the diaper in the middle of the night, he'd lean over and whisper, and he'd say, I'll give you $1,000 right now if you change that diaper. Of course, I wouldn't do it because, well, the lawyer said, don't worry. We'll take care of it. We'll get it in the end. And Scout. Scout asked me not to say anything, but just last week, he offered her $1,000 to change his diaper.

[Lauren]

I mean, you know, very cute. They clearly have, like, a good, spirited relationship.

[Chandler]

Yes. So they actually even quarantined together in 2020. Demi, their girls, Bruce, his wife Emma, and their two young daughters. Now, as Bruce is diagnosed with prefrontal dementia in 2023, Demi remains extremely close to Bruce, and their family has remained a unit throughout the years, which brings us to present day. So Demi has had this really stellar second act. She's undeniably remained remarkably well preserved throughout the years. Demi Moore has always been, like, so stunning. And I think people can use the phrase, like, stunning for her age, and it can feel pejorative. But I think people, when they say that about Demi Moore, they're just, like, more shocked.

[Lauren]

She's just gorgeous.

[Chandler]

She's stunning. And, like, it's always like, wait, how old is she?

[Lauren]

How is that possible?

[Chandler]

So she's undeniably had, you know, the nips and tucks, but she's never confirmed or denied any work. People couldn't not talk about it when she was strutting the 2021 Fendi Runway with a very surprising new look. So she had, like.

[Lauren]

Do you remember that?

[Chandler]

Yeah, she. That was crazy. Yeah. We were like, what happened to me more? I think she had, like, buccal fat removed. Yeah.

[Lauren]

And it just looked weird and it looked awful. Yeah.

[Chandler]

But then her work Was, like, completely redone.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And she looks exquisite. Now, apparently, this is what the word is that Dara Liotta in New York City did her rhino reconstruction. No, did her new rhinoplasty. I mean, I think. I think she. You can fully see her lip. Lips of scar in the substance. She's had a lot of work done, which is, you know, whatever. Yeah. Let go. I mean, clearly, it looks amazing.

[Lauren]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And then she's in the substance that, you know, was just so good. You and I both watched it. It's amazing. It. Yeah. I think that I had, like, a visceral reaction to the movie, not only because it's, like, kind of gross and graphic, but because it just, like, it adequately, I think, shows the rage you feel as a woman sometimes with, like, with how tied you are to your own looks.

[Chandler]

Right, right. And I think the power that you have to destroy yourself in the pursuit of perfection and the pursuit of eternal youth, the way that that can be something that really ultimately just destroys the essence of who you are if you let it. Right.

[Lauren]

You know, she's already won a Golden Globe and a Critics Choice Awards for the Substance, and I am kind of hoping she wins an Oscar for it.

[Chandler]

I think her performance, it's really one of the things about it is she has very little voice work, especially in the first part of it, compared to Margaret Qualy. And her performance is just utterly riveting. It just goes to show she's. She is such an excellent actress and really has not had the accolades that are appropriate. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So fingers crossed. And we're going to play her. Her speech that she gave when she won, you know, Best Female Actor.

[C]

Oh, wow. I really wasn't expecting that. I'm just in shock right now. I've been doing this a long time, like, over 45 years, and this is the first time I've ever won anything as an actor. And I'm just so humbled and so grateful. Thirty years ago, I had a producer tell me that I was a popcorn actress. And at that time, I made that mean that this wasn't something that I was allowed to have, that I could do. Movies that were successful, that made a lot of money, but that I couldn't be acknowledged. And I bought in and I believed that. And that corroded me over time to the point where I thought a few years ago that maybe this was it. Maybe I was complete, Maybe I would. I've done what I was supposed to do. And as I was at kind of a low point, I had this magical, bold, courageous, out of the box, absolutely bonkers script come across my desk called the Substance and the Universe told me that you're not done. And I am so grateful to Corlee for trusting me to step in and play this woman for Margaret, for being the other half of me that I couldn't have done without, for looking out for me to the people who've been with me for over 30 years. Kevin Eubane, Jason Weinberg, everybody at CAA, Untitled lead all of the people who stood by me, especially the people who've believed in me when I haven't believed in myself. And I'll just leave you with one thing that I think this movie is imparting is in those moments when we don't think we're smart enough or pretty enough or skinny enough or successful enough or basically just not enough. I had a woman say to me, just know you will never be enough, but you can know the value of your worth if you just put down the measuring stick. And so today, I celebrate this as a marker of my wholeness and of the love that is driving me, and for the gift of doing something I love and being reminded that I do belong. Thank you so much.

[Chandler]

First of all, what an incredible speech. I cannot believe that was given off the cuff. Literally.

[Lauren]

I. I'm riveted. Riveted. And just, like, it's so eloquent and it's so powerful.

[Chandler]

The idea that.

[Lauren]

Let me just say, too, it's so powerful. And it's just clear. She's done so much work on herself.

[Chandler]

It's clear. The thing for me about this whole thing is you can go through so much in life and you can heal, you can get better, you can have the worst things happen to you and you can grow. And I just also, the thing she said about, you know, like, you're. It's never gonna be enough. You're never gonna be the best. You're never gonna be. And I think as women, there's always these comparisons and there's always these expectations. And it's so easy to think, well, if I meet the expectations, if I actually am beautiful enough or young enough and thin enough or X, Y or z enough, then all will be well, right? And it's so true. You never will be enough of all those things. You never get there. But if you stop. Stop measuring everything and know that your intrinsic worth actually has nothing to do with any of that, that is when you can actually find not only, like, peace, but, I think, like, so much joy in life that is lost when you're spent seeking validation and seeking and chasing that.

[Lauren]

I love the visual of putting down the measuring stick because it's just like, just put it away. Don't make whatever, you know, measure you want to get to lower. Just put it away. Just put it away so that you can be fully present and enjoy the person you are in this moment. Yeah, you know, I just. Yeah, I completely agree with everything you said. And she's incredibly powerful and inspirational. And she's an icon. She's an icon.

[Chandler]

She deserves this moment. And I just think there's something really so special about it. So we are just, you know, we are recording this on February 18, 2025, and we are just crossing every finger in tow that Demi wins her Oscar. Her first Oscar. And so happy to do our first popologist profile. What a great way to kick it off to one and only Demi Moore, everyone.

[Lauren]

All right, everyone. We will be back on Friday with an episode for our global elites.

[Chandler]

Bye.

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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