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- [00:02]
Chandler
Hi, everyone. Okay, I just wanted to explain how this week's episodes are going to go. So this week we do have a brand new full episode for you all that is being released as our deep dive into the Karen Reid trial, part two. So it's the episode that comes after this. This episode is a re release of our original deep dive into the Death of John O'Keefe and the trial of Karen Reed that we originally published on on June 20, 2024. Ten days later, on July 1, 2024, Karen Reed's trial was declared a mistrial. So we are re releasing our full deep dive on the case. And then our episode that is up right now, our part two, it covers everything from her case being declared a mistrial, what's gone down in the year since, and then this first week of her back in court. Okay, so if you want to listen to just the updates and just the new fresh content on Karen Reid, I urge you to go to part two. But we wanted to re release part one for anyone who doesn't know the brass tacks of this case and wants a full primer on all things Karen Reed. So without further ado, please enjoy our deep dive on the Death of John O'Keefe and the trial of Karen Reed. And then if you've already heard this episode, just head on over to part two. Well, well, well. Chandler. Hello.
- [01:27]
Karen
Hello. We are here today to do a true crime deep dive. We don't do true crime very often, but every now and then a case comes across our desk and we have to do a deep dive on it. So today that is what we were doing.
- [01:42]
Chandler
Yes, Chandler, this case is so interesting. Without further ado, we are getting into the death of John O'Keefe. Now, what is very, very crucial in this case is none of it honestly makes a ton of sense. And I think you go into it thinking like, of course the girlfriend did it and the woman who's on trial right now is named Karen Reed. So here are the basics about John O'Keefe and Karen Reed. Officer John O'Keefe was a 16 year veteran of the Boston Police Department. So the thing about John O'Keefe and I really want to start with the victim in this case and the person who is deceased. He sounds like one of the most stand up, wonderful men on this podcast. In Chandler especially, there can be some man hating happening. And that does not apply to the valiant man that John O'Keefe seems to have been. So.
- [02:35]
Karen
And yeah, this isn't just because, you know, he was a Civil servant. Would we call a police officer a civil servant? I'm not sure. Maybe.
- [02:42]
Chandler
Yes, definitely. Abs, remember the time that was that murder outside Dad's office building and those police officers showed up and they were like the most valiant, courageous soul. Like courageous men.
- [02:52]
Karen
Yeah.
- [02:52]
Chandler
And. And women. I know, but I just, honestly, I have never respected and just felt more protected than when those brave men came to the scene of an active shooter near dad's office that we were all so much watching. Yeah, yeah. These people really put themselves in the line of duty, so. Absolutely a civil servant. And he was really known for his dedication to his work and family. Yes. Chandler.
- [03:15]
Karen
What I'll say is I think what makes this case really complex and baffling is that this deals with potential corruption within a police department. And that is really undercuts, you know, the man that John O'Keefe was.
- [03:27]
Chandler
So John O'Keefe was known for being a wonderful, wonderful man. He had been living in Canton, Massachusetts since 2014, and he was actually raising his niece and nephew after his sister died of a brain tumor and her husband died of a heart attack two months later. So the kids, their ages are 16 and 13 at the time of John's death. And they affectionately called their funkle, their fun uncle by the nickname jj. For the past two years, he has dated a woman named Karen Reed, who is the primary suspect and who is being charged with his murder. He was only 46 years old when he died. So who is Karen Reed? Karen reed is a 44 year old equity analyst living in the Boston suburb of Mansfield, 10 miles away from John. She is listed as being on the faculty in the finance department of Bentley University as an adjunct lecturer, a position she has held for more than 13 years. So she's an accomplished, you know, very astute financial professional and scholar. She has worked in equity research in the tech sector for Fidelity Investments for more than 14 years. She lived in Mansfield, but spent much of her time at O'Keeffe's helping with the kids. So they originally dated in their 20s, but then they broke up and they reconnected during the pandemic.
- [04:45]
Karen
All right, okay, so let's get into the crime and the day where all of this took place. So on January 28, 2022, Karen and John, as well as a handful of Boston Police Department friends and their wives, went out for an evening at a few local bars. After last call, the group headed to Brian Albert's home. He's another Boston Police department. So.
- [05:04]
Chandler
So this is the Boston Police Department.
- [05:06]
Karen
I don't know, maybe it's like Canton was a town in the within. Like the Boston.
- [05:10]
Chandler
Yeah, I think it's like New York City in Orange County. It's like.
- [05:13]
Karen
Yeah, totally. Totally. So after last call, the group headed to Boston PD Sergeants Brian Albert's home to continue the gathering in the early hours of January 29th. So basically they're all out on, you know, the night of January 28th and they want to keep the party going at Brian Albert's house. So sometime during that time, tragedy struck and John ended up dead. Three days later, Karen was arrested and is currently on trial for second degree murder manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol and leaving the scene of a personal injury and death. John's death, specifically John's death. The following investigation and the ongoing trial has many twists, turns and reasonable doubt that has everyone split on what has happened and who is to blame for his death. So let's really dive into what we know.
- [05:56]
Chandler
Okay, so let's get into the hours before John died on January 28, 2022. So over the course of the evening, John and Karen have a large number of drinks during the night. They are at this bar and they're shown on surveillance footage as appearing to be in good spirits, affectionate with each other. After the bar's last call, other members of their group are heading over to Boston PD Sergeant Brian Albert's house and John wants to join. Karen was reportedly apprehensive about joining the group at Brian Albert's home since she didn't hear them receive an invite to join the group. I mean, we've all been there, right? It's are we actually invited to this?
- [06:36]
Karen
Right.
- [06:37]
Chandler
So this is what Karen says. So Karen and John leave the bar and surveillance video shows John taking a cocktail glass containing a drink from the bar on his way out. So that's very important to remember. He is, you know, he has a glass in his hand from the bar when he leaves.
- [06:53]
Karen
Right. So Karen drives her and John to Brian Albert's home and her Lexus SUV and they arrive at the Albert's home at 12:45am Karen allegedly drops John off at the Alberts driveway and waits in her car to hear back from John. You know, whether or not they were actually invited to the home. She testified that she was not feeling well. And so after about 10 minutes of waiting to hear back from John, she was reportedly irritated and drove away. Around 5am that morning, Karen woke up and realized that John wasn't home. Still, call logs show that Karen tried calling John many times 53 exactly between 12:30am and 6:03am she called Jennifer McCabe, who is Brian Albert's sister in law. Okay, Brian Albert, the house that they're all at. She calls his sister in law, Jennifer McCabe, who was with the group the previous night, to see if she knew where John was. Jennifer did not know where John was. So then Jennifer calls Chris Albert's wife Julie, to see if she knows where John was.
- [07:49]
Chandler
So I'll just say here, she calls the brother. So Brian Albert's brother is Chris, the Brian Albert is the house they were at. She calls his brother's wife Julie to see if she knows where John is at this time.
- [08:00]
Karen
Yeah. Karen told Jennifer and Julie that John didn't arrive home last night and that her memory of the night before is bad since her last memory was at the Waterfall Bar the night before. So she doesn't even remember the driveway necessarily. Karen allegedly said she was worried he might be dead. So then together, Karen, Jennifer, Julie and Carrie Roberts, who is a lifelong friend of John's, go looking for him around 5:30am Yeah, I think that.
- [08:26]
Chandler
So I kind of, I'm interested, curious your thoughts on this. I mean, you pull up to a house, your boyfriend, you've both been drinking a lot, you spent 10 minutes waiting in the car for him to tell you whether you're invited or not. And then you're just like, whatever, I'm over this, I'm leaving. That sounds like maybe kind of reasonable to me. Like I can kind of imagine, like maybe he was so drunk because she's just like, he forgot about me and I don't even want to go anyway, so I'm just leaving. Yeah.
- [08:53]
Karen
Yeah, definitely. I think what is a little bit odd to me is maybe even looking for him this soon. This is what strikes me as odd because I think when you're out, you know, a night of heavy drinking, your boyfriend doesn't come home with you. Like, wouldn't you just kind of assume, like, oh, he probably crashed somewhere and his phone's probably on do not disturb or something. And I think what helped me sort of understand why she went to go look for him is in one of the podcasts I was listening to, the person said that because he was such a dedicated uncle to his niece and nephew and they had had this tragedy of both their parents being lost, like he wouldn't have just forgotten to call or forgotten to say, I am not going to make it home. Karen, I guess, was immediately very worried because she just knew that that was out of character for him to just, like, not come home at all or not say something about it.
- [09:37]
Chandler
Yeah. And I think it just depends on who the person is. Right. Because, like, on some level, I think, like, maybe if you're stasi on Vanderpump rules and Bode isn't gonna come home, you assume that he slept the night as shorts and sandals. But if you're in your late 40s, you know, financial, professional, and you're like, Boston PD, boyfriend doesn't come home, maybe there's less of that going on. So that makes sense. That's great context. So according to Carrie Roberts, who is one of the women who Karen called to go looking for John, Karen was so drunk the previous night. This is what Carrie says, that she told Carrie in the morning she didn't remember anything from the night before, but that she wondered if John was dead or got hit by a snowplow and that she still seemed drunk that morning. That was Carrie's impression of Karen and the thing she said. So before Karen, Jennifer, and Carrie found John's body, Carrie told police that Karen showed them her cracked right tail light, saying she had no idea how it happened the night before. So the taillight is also a. An important piece of this puzzle. So they arrive outside the home of Brian Albert, where she went to drop off John the night before. And soon Karen spots John's cold body covered under six inches of snow. This caught the other women by surprise, since none of the other women could spot anything in the snow. Karen quickly gets out of the car and finds him under six inches of snow. John's eyes are extremely swollen. He has cuts on his face, his head, and his right arm. His clothes are soaked with blood, and he had blood and vomit on his face.
- [11:11]
Karen
So Karen lays on top of him and tries to give him cpr. She lays on top of him to, you know, for warmth, and the group calls 911. When the paramedics arrived, she allegedly said something like, I hit him, or could I have hit him multiple times? As expected, Karen is absolutely hysterical during this time. Jennifer McCabe reports that Karen asked her to Google how long you have to be left outside before you die of hypothermia. This is important to remember that Jennifer says that Karen asked her to Google this. So after this, John was taken to the hospital where he was pronounced dead. Karen went with the police to have her blood alcohol content tested.
- [11:44]
Chandler
So a few interesting things. It's like, okay, she knows exactly where he is. On some level, you're like, okay. So she called the girlfriends to go with her because she doesn't want to be, like, upon the scene by herself. She, like, wants witnesses. And then also, like, she knows exactly where he is under the snow and they couldn't have seen it makes it just think, like, of course, like, she knows exactly what happened here.
- [12:06]
Karen
I mean, also, if she's saying things like, could I have hit him? Am I. Did I hit him? And she doesn't remember. It just seems like this was a terrible tragedy, Accidental tragedy, you know?
- [12:15]
Chandler
Yes. Well, and that. But that was part of, like, something I was thinking is if she knew, though, like, if it was something where she was aware of what she did, and that's why she knows exactly where he is. Right. And she brought the women there to have witnesses. So she wasn't alone finding his body. Then I don't think she would have said, could I have hit him? I hit him? Because why would she admit to it right there?
- [12:41]
Karen
Right, Right. Totally.
- [12:43]
Chandler
That, to me actually seem, like, super strange. They makes me think that she's completely caught unaware of what's going on. And if there's any chance she knew she was guilty, she would be like, what happened to him? How did this happen?
- [12:57]
Karen
How did this happen? Or, yeah, like, she wouldn't have even discovered where his body was first. She'd let, like, somebody else do that.
- [13:02]
Chandler
Yes.
- [13:03]
Karen
Yeah.
- [13:03]
Chandler
So this is the thing that's interesting about this case. There's a lot of conflicting details. One second you'll think, oh, she's definitely guilty. The next second you'll think, no, something else is completely amiss.
- [13:15]
Karen
Okay.
- [13:16]
Chandler
So the prosecution, known as the Massachusetts Commonwealth, or just the Commonwealth, this is who is indicting people. It's basically like, whenever. And I think that sometimes this kind of gets confusing when you're listening to true crime stuff, but you know how, like, in the Jen Shaw case, it was the people versus Jen Shaw. Like, if you commit a crime, if you kill someone or commit a fraud case, like, you're really committing a crime against the community. And so the prosecution will represent the people in this case who want justice. And specifically in this community, that would be the Massachusetts Commonwealth or just the Commonwealth. So the prosecution is saying that Karen backed into John with her car in a fit of rage in the early morning hours of January 29, and then drove off, leaving him to die guy in the snowbank on the freezing Massachusetts night. They are citing Karen's crack tail light as prime evidence that she backed into him.
- [14:07]
Karen
Okay, so Karen's defense. The defense is saying that Karen is innocent and that she is being framed for John's murder and that there is a massive police cover up going on by Massachusetts State Police. The defense alleges that Karen dropped John off at the home of Boston PD Sergeant Brian Albert. Then he went inside the home and was killed either by Brian Albert's dog or by someone who was at Brian Albert's home early that morning.
- [14:30]
Chandler
You might think, like, okay, that sounds really far fetched, like the Boston Police Department are creating a conspiracy to frame Karen Reed for the murder of John O'Keefe when it's like you drove drunk. Like, are you kidding me? You had a broken tail light. This just. You went straight to his body. But just keep listening, everyone. So here's the evidence from the scene. John's body had significant injuries. There were several cuts on John's right forearm, two swollen black eyes, a bloody nose, various cuts to his face, a large laceration on the back of his head, defensive bruises on the backs of his hands, and multiple skull fractures that resulted in bleeding on his brain. The doctor said his pancreas was dark red, indicating hypothermia. The medical examiner reported that his injuries took place prior to the hypothermia. The blunt force trauma and brain bleeds render John incapacitated and unable to move.
- [15:23]
Karen
Interesting here. You might want to note that there's really nothing below the waist that is noted here. It is all like, neck up. So I think that's interesting because, you know, if she ran him over, he would have injuries, you know, to his lower extremities or to at least his chest. And, you know, if that is what killed him, you would think that he would have injuries below the neck.
- [15:42]
Chandler
Generally. I think if you're hit by a car, you don't look like you've been punched out, you know, in your eyeballs.
- [15:49]
Karen
And you don't have bleeding and you.
- [15:51]
Chandler
Don'T have, like defensive bruises on the backs of your arms like you were defending yourself.
- [15:57]
Karen
Yeah.
- [15:57]
Chandler
Or, I'm sorry, the backs of your hands. That doesn't make any sense. You would have, I think, injuries to your trunk, to your abdomen, to where a car would hit a body. So. And that's why it's. This is not a simple case. If you're looking to get more protein in your life and you want to do it in a gorgeous way where the taste is delicious and you actually look forward to the protein shake or the protein drink, look no further than the brand Clean Simple Eats. It's our protein bible for pop apologists.
- [16:28]
Karen
The simply vanilla literally tastes so good it tastes like ice cream when it's.
- [16:31]
Chandler
Blended with just water or milk.
- [16:33]
Karen
It's perfect.
- [16:34]
Chandler
Add a little peanut butter, it'll taste like the best dessert. I also of course everyone knows I'm obsessed with the clear protein. I have one to two cans a day. It bumps my protein up by 20 or 40 grams. It is just the easiest way to grab some extra protein from the fridge and not mess up my kitchen. Clean simple eats is truly the brand to go to for all of your protein needs.
- [16:56]
Karen
Everyone go to cleansimpleats.com and use code popapologist for 10% off your order.
- [17:00]
Chandler
Cleansimpleats.com use co popapologist. Grab a bag of the chocolate brownie batter protein powder and I swear it will taste like a Wendy's frosty. It tastes like a dessert. Okay, but it's good for you. Clean grass fed protein.
- [17:13]
Karen
Lauren, you know how we've been on a dead run for like the last week?
- [17:17]
Chandler
Mm.
- [17:17]
Karen
Well let me just tell you that thank God I had early bird to, you know, help me unwind. After the craziest seven days I took a full gummy and was able to literally knock out in the best way possible.
- [17:32]
Chandler
They're so effective at just making your brain melt away all of a sudden. Like the rush of an internal monologue. All your anxiety, all the stuff you're stressing about, it just kind of gets muted and it just kind of like mushes away and you can truly fall asleep. It's incredible.
- [17:49]
Karen
They're simply perfect. I love taking a half. If I'm going to, you know, unwind and watch a show, a full on is maybe more when I'm just looking to, you know, fully go to sleep. And they do a perfect job every single time.
- [18:00]
Chandler
I will say a single bottle will last me a really long time cuz a half does wonders. I usually only take a half. I highly recommend going to early birdcbd.com using code pop20 for 20% off.
- [18:13]
Karen
So let's get into another huge piece of evidence which is Karen's car, Karen's Lexus suv. So the collision reconstruction team, when they were processing Karen's Lexus noticed broken glass fragments on the rear bumper that could be a match to the cocktail glass John took from the bar. Shattered rear tail light that were missing. Red and clear plastic. Various scratches and dents, a large scratch and a minor dent on the right side side of the rear tail light. Plus chipped paint near the bumper. They also tested the car's backup camera which was confirmed to be working. So if Karen put the car in reverse. The car would have shown John in the rear view mirror and the warning sounds would have alerted her that something was behind her car as well.
- [18:53]
Chandler
So the crime scene was reconstructed and according to the prosecution, the Commonwealth, you know, that's prosecuting Karen Reed, the crime scene reconstruction data indicates that her car reversed 60ft at a speed of 22 miles per hour around the time she was believed to have struck. Struck John with her car.
- [19:12]
Karen
So another piece of evidence and context is that John's niece and nephew were interviewed and they reported that John and Karen were having problems with their relationship. According to the niece and nephew, who lived with a couple, the two had been fighting a lot and had a, quote, toxic relationship.
- [19:29]
Chandler
Yeah. And evidence from John's phone bears this out. So messages from John's phone indicated that he wanted to break up with Karen. There's a voicemail message from Karen on his phone saying that she hates John. All right. Additionally, his phone data doesn't show him going into the Alberts home, which has been a key part of the prosecution's evidence. So it's like if you're saying that no, he went in there and they beat him up and killed him and then put him outside for his body to freeze. How does that make any sense if his phone doesn't show data that he went inside? However, apparently this isn't the most reliable data point because in densely populated areas, phone towers aren't known to be that reliable for measuring locations with that much precision. So it's kind of like maybe, maybe not.
- [20:17]
Karen
You also think about, like when you go to zoom in on your friends on Find My Friends. Like I live in the same building as one of my close friends and you can't. We just look like we're on top of each other. You can't really tell how far apart we are from each other. You can't really see 10ft difference or anything like that.
- [20:32]
Chandler
Or 20. 20ft. Yeah.
- [20:34]
Karen
Right, Right. So another part of this is John's Apple health data. So Karen's defense argues that John's Apple health data shows him taking 80 steps and climbing the equivalent of three flights of stairs at the Alberts property. Again, we don't know how precise this data is, but clearly he was alive and taking steps post getting out of the car. Yeah.
- [20:55]
Chandler
And we don't know how reliable it is. But I will say, like, it's interesting that this Apple health data says he climbed three flights of stairs and like if she just dropped him off and then backed over him with her car. There would be no flights of stairs recorded on that Apple data that I know of.
- [21:12]
Karen
Right. Yeah.
- [21:13]
Chandler
So that part is very interesting. So Karen's blood alcohol levels on the morning of January 29, she was measured to have still a blood alcohol content of.08. Meaning, you know, the night before when she was driving, she was much more intoxicated, probably 0.13 to 0.29. When she was driving away at 12:45am and it kind of comes out. She says she had four drinks, but they look at surveillance footage from the bar, and she had about nine drinks that night.
- [21:43]
Karen
I just have to say really quick, I do not understand the drinking and driving here. Like, what?
- [21:49]
Chandler
I have a hot take on drinking and driving really quick, which is that why don't we just make it completely illegal to drink at all and drive? And maybe that makes me sound like a wet blanket and a prude, but there's just a part of me that's like. I mean, I guess people have to drive long distances after having, like, a couple drinks with dinner, but I just still think, like, with Ubers being available now, it's like, why do we let people drink and drive, period?
- [22:12]
Karen
Well, and it's crazy that it was commonplace for her to drive this drunk. I guess maybe that's stretched. Well, no, sorry, that's me. I would get a strong objection in court, but, like, the fact that she doesn't remember what happened the night before, but she made it home safe herself. I mean, she might have killed John in the process, but she, like, drove that drunk all the way back to his house. I don't know. It's just like. It's crazy that anyone can operate a motor vehicle like that at all.
- [22:38]
Chandler
It's insane. It's absolutely insane. I just think that we are not part of, like, any sort of friend group or culture where it's, like, normalized.
- [22:45]
Karen
Yeah. I think it might be also an age thing as well. Like, it's really not a part of. It's like, it's not kosher at all for people or people our age.
- [22:52]
Chandler
So no drinking and driving on the Pop Apologists podcast and with our community.
- [22:58]
Karen
Sisters Against Drunk Driving.
- [23:01]
Chandler
For real. Not even a joke. For real.
- [23:03]
Karen
Not even a joke. Truly. Okay, so let's cut to three days after John's body is found, where Karen is arrested. So Karen is arrested and is charged with manslaughter, motor vehicular homicide, and leaving the scene of a collision causing death. Okay.
- [23:17]
Chandler
So.
- [23:17]
Karen
However, after a grand jury reviewed the evidence, Karen's charges were upgraded. So she was then charged with second degree murder, manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol and leaving the scene of personal injury and death. She was arraigned in these charges. She pleaded not guilty and was then released on a hundred thousand dollar bail.
- [23:35]
Chandler
So the case against Karen is pretty strong. She was obviously drunk, so much so that her blood alcohol level was still at or above the legal limit at around 9am the next morning. And it's not exactly promising that she was wondering loudly if she had been the one to hit her boyfriend, which she apparently did to both the women that were helping her find John and the paramedics at the scene. So it seems pretty cut and dry, right? Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
- [24:04]
Karen
So Karen obviously pleads not guilty and a multitude of factors happen where she realizes like, she's being framed. And there's a lot of like stuff on Facebook and you know, if you go into like the, the Reddits and the deep dives on this case, there's a lot more about like this town. And you know what she was starting to see that made her think, wait, I'm being framed right now for real? Yeah, yeah. Like Facebook posts by people involved or people who were at that party that night. And it just like her spidey senses went up and so she decides to hire big guns. So she hires David Unetti and Alan Jackson. Alan Jackson, we're not talking about the beloved country singer who sings Lauren and my favorite song, Remember When. Although that song is stirring. This Alan Jackson is a stirring attorney and he actually represented Kevin Spacey when he was accused of sexually assaulting a young man. He's very good at his job, he's an extremely good communicator and like it's super quick on his feet. That's what you'll notice in like a lot of these trial recaps is he just like can hit back figuratively when he's cross examining someone. And it's, it's very impressive. So she hires this big legal team to help her wage her defense against the prosecution.
- [25:18]
Chandler
And she needs big guns. Because if the Boston Police Department or several officers within it are creating a conspiracy or covering up something that they did and trying to send her to prison, like, that's, I think, why this trial is so captivating, because not only we'll get into the reasons why there's such a miscarriage of justice for John and for Karen, because the way that this case was handled was so sloppy.
- [25:45]
Karen
Yes.
- [25:46]
Chandler
And when you know you're being accused of murdering someone, the civil Servants who are on the scene there to like, protect the evidence and to gather the evidence. They should be operating in a way that's according to the book. That way you have, you know, the best ability to have the facts to defend yourself. But as you'll see, things were seem to be manipulated. And so anyway, the reason why this case is so captivating is it's like literally potentially a police department trying to frame this woman.
- [26:17]
Karen
Yeah. And I think as we get into some of these details and if people do their own research, as they say, you're just going to be baffled by how this case was mishandled. And you know, at times it's like, was this just a stupid blunder, you know, of them collecting evidence in the wrong way or was this intentional? Were they trying to be sloppy so that the evidence wouldn't hold up or that, you know, they could manipulate it like you're saying?
- [26:40]
Chandler
Exactly. Okay, so it all seems pretty far fetched. Obviously Occam's Razor would suggest that Karen and her boyfriend, who were not getting along, the kids say they have a toxic relationship. All things, you know, would point to that she just did this, that she backed over him, she left him to die in the cold and this woman should be locked away for life. However, there is enough evidence here that would suggest that at best some very poor police work happened and at worst, there is a massive police cover up. So here's a clip where Karen's being asked why the police would try to cover up a crime. You're alleging that law enforcement officials in this state committed murder and that they're covering it up. Why would they want to be involved in this?
- [27:25]
Karen
Because he's dead.
- [27:26]
Chandler
I think things went too far. It was late, there was alcohol involved. But they're all family and there's, there's many of them involved.
- [27:35]
Karen
Also. I want to just restate here. They went after this bar to another police officer's home. So the fact that this crime occurred right outside of a police officer's home, you know, ostensibly where there should be a lot of people who know how to handle this type of situation and that it is that there are grave miscarriages of justice, like over and over again, it just really feels like it wasn't accidental.
- [28:00]
Chandler
Okay, so this is what the prosecution is saying. So this is the prosecution's case. They say there's no evidence that John ever went into Brian Albert's home that night. There are 11 witness statements from all the people there who report that John did not enter the home. So the prosecution Says, listen, it's a simple story. Obviously Karen hit him with her car, she put it into reverse and violently hit him and then left him for dead. No one from the group inside Brian's home was aware that John was outside injured in the snow and Karen knew exactly where his body was and led the other women on a wild goose chase of sorts before arriving at Brian Albert's home knowing exactly where he was going to be.
- [28:40]
Karen
Okay, so this is what Karen's defense is saying. Karen is innocent and that she had no criminal intent that she actually saw John enter Brian Albert's home that night. They also suggest that John could have had a physical altercation with someone at Brian Albert's home. There was a group of people there that night and we'll uncover more of who was there as we go on. But you know, basically somebody who was at that party or maybe a group of people who are at that party got into it with John. And one of these people that they suggest is 18 year old Colin Albert, who's Brian's nephew. John had previously had an argument with Colin and the argument kind of amounted to Colin telling John to quote, go yourself and doing some littering in John's front yard. There are photos of Colin taken shortly after John died where Colin had scrapes and bruises on his knuckles.
- [29:31]
Chandler
Well, and I just want to say I'm going to cut in here really quick. I didn't haven't seen anything in any of my research that Karen had any indications that she had anything on her knuckles. So that's interesting too. Right. And he did have defensive bruises on the backs of his hands.
- [29:48]
Karen
Yeah, John did also, you know, Colin sort of seems to be a little bit of a punk who isn't super polite and doesn't have much respect for the rules. So the defense is saying that Colin doesn't think he's going to get in any trouble and sort of feels untouchable because there's a lot of people including his father, uncle and a few other people in his family and in his close circle who are all police officers.
- [30:07]
Chandler
Yep. And they also suggest that John's injuries were not consistent with him being hit by a car, but appear to be from a fight of sorts. And Karen's statement saying I hit him, I hit him the morning they found John's body were not actually statements but they were questions. Did I hit him? Did I hit him? I mean I can't believe this woman was driving when she was blackout drunk. But like it's like not that hard to get blackout is Something I've realized. And anyway, I just think that, like the part that where she's like questioning if she hit him. Yeah.
- [30:41]
Karen
I mean, you just wouldn't do that.
- [30:43]
Chandler
If you thought you were guilty.
- [30:44]
Karen
Also, if you're having a hysterical moment where you have just like laid on top of your boyfriend's body to try to revive him and you're realizing that he's in the same spot where you thought you left him last night and now dead, maybe you're just having this hysterical breakdown of like, could I have hit him? Did I hit him? Like, how did this happen? No, this is five, six hours ago. So continuing on with what the defense is saying, they are alleging a huge police cover up and framing of Karen Reed involving state and local police. They believe that 11 people inside that house have all conspired together with law enforcement to cover up John's death. Additionally, there is video surveillance of her backing her car out of the driveway in the early hours of January 29th, you know, when she woke up, realized John wasn't home. And in the video, she's backing out of her driveway and she seems to get extremely close to John's suv. And I watched the video actually last night with Ben, and we both felt like the car wiggled a little bit. So it's very probable that she could have actually, you know, tapped his bumper. And that's when the broken tail light happened, not earlier that morning when she left. And, you know, I guess potentially could have hit John. So what's really interesting here, everybody, is that with this video surveillance footage that we, where we see the car get tapped, Karen's car, after the police arrive on the scene and everything, her car is actually then taken, I think actually they drove it back to her place. And then later on in the day it's taken to the police department to get processed as evidence, right? And the video footage of it at the police department, there's a certain amount of time that is fully missing from the record. And recently in trial, that part of the footage actually came back and they were like, well, we actually now have this footage, you know, because people are suspicious that maybe her car was tampered with, you know, and in order to try to plan evidence or whatever. And the crazy ass thing is that the video footage has been tampered and it has been warped to now be inverted because so basically they play the video footage in court and Karen looks at her family while they're playing and she goes, it's on the wrong side. And if you look at the video like Police is spelled backwards. And so they literally, it's like they doctored the video.
- [32:50]
Chandler
It's really nuts. They also apparently did not submit the video in discovery. So they didn't like, give her team, the, her defense attorneys the ability to review it and to know it was coming, which is not like the judge admitted it, which is crazy. Like, you shouldn't be able to admit evidence that's not admitted into discovery. So both teams should be able to prepare for trial adequately and with the same, like, evidence. So, yeah, very, very interesting, you guys.
- [33:20]
Karen
As we go on, as you dig more into this case, like, there are so many things where, like, stuff is missing, ring camera footage is somehow missing, videos have been deleted and just like so many holes where it feels like people were intentionally trying to hide evidence. I don't know, the deeper you go into it, the more it does feel like a cover up and it does feel like people were conspiring against her.
- [33:40]
Chandler
Yeah. And I'm personally, I mean, if anyone's here from Kate Middleton discovered us through that saga. This might strain credulity, but I'm not a person who gets swept away in conspiracies. I'm actually not. I don't like to live in a world where police departments or governments are not what they seem to be. And it takes a lot for me to think that the simplest explanation isn't always the case. But again, like you said, there's a lot here that doesn't make any sense. There is this theory that the taillight didn't get broken when she, you know, as they allege, backed over John, but she actually bumped her car into his when she went to go look for him that morning, and that's when the taillight was broken.
- [34:19]
Karen
So Jennifer McCabe, who's an important person in this, and we briefly brought her up earlier, if you'll remember, she is the sister in law, I believe, of Brian Albert. And she was one of the women that Karen called and she went along, you know, to go look for him. And so basically what the defense says is that Jennifer McCabe actually went along with Karen to help look for the body. And she did that with the intention of, you know, inserting the idea that Karen Reid would have killed John herself. Basically, like, she wanted to, like, be there to potentially, you know, make Karen look bad or, you know, and she's one of the key witnesses who says, like I said I hit him or Karen said I hit him. And another crazy thing about Jennifer McCabe and I'm kind of like getting to a Detail a little bit ahead of itself, but I think it's really fascinating. So one of the big pieces of evidence for the defense is that there was a search on Jennifer McCabe's phone at like 2:30am that said, how long till someone dies of hypothermia in the cold? Or how long for someone to die in the cold? I think exactly is what it said, but it was like misspelled or mistyped. And the defense. That's like a huge moment for the defense because they say that that means that she. What was happening at 2:30am why was she Googling that? So she's a really important figure, and her testimony at trial was really fascinating. And her and Alan Jackson sort of get into it, and there's this moment where he basically says, like, you might have liked John O'Keefe. You might have not intended for this to happen. But he was just a friend. He wasn't family. And her family is Brian Albert. Her family is who she's protecting now with potentially this case. And it's just saying, yeah, it's. It's crazy.
- [35:56]
Chandler
Yeah, it's. And also, I mean, obviously it's like, why would she google at 2:37am before she knew that this guy was missing? How long it takes for someone to die in the cold? Right. So here are issues with the prosecution, so theories. So, as we've discussed, John's injuries don't appear consistent with being backed over by a car. So he has laceration, swelling, and broken bones on his head. And as we said at the beginning of this episode, you would think that he would be injured at his midsection if he was struck by a car. There are also marks on his arm that look like a dog bite. And the Alberts actually did have a big German shepherd who has supposedly attacked people before. And they rehomed this dog to a different state just shortly after John dies.
- [36:41]
Karen
Do you know what else they did?
- [36:43]
Chandler
What?
- [36:44]
Karen
They sold their house.
- [36:45]
Chandler
Oh. Do you know what else they did? What? Apparently they redid their entire basement before they sold the house. So all the floors were ripped out.
- [36:52]
Karen
All.
- [36:52]
Chandler
Anything with any sort of forensic evidence was destroyed. Very interesting. And also, let's not forget everyone, he climbed those three flights of stairs according to his Apple data. So that would, you know, maybe he.
- [37:02]
Karen
Went to the basement.
- [37:03]
Chandler
Okay. So the county medical examiner called the wounds on John's arm road rash as a result of being hit by a car. But Karen's defense disagrees. If it was road rash, why would it only appear on his forearm and bicep. There's no evidence of road rash anywhere else on his body. Dr. Frank Sheridan from California, who has completed over 12, 000 medical examination, disagreed with the road rash theory. He concluded with a scientific certainty that these marks were from an animal attack.
- [37:31]
Karen
Okay, so let's get into, you know, some more issues with the prosecution's theory. One of these being that how did no one see John's body outside of the Alberts house as they left that evening when everyone trickled out when the party was done, how did nobody see his body? So one thing to note here is that people live in the, on the east coast or they live in this, you know, region. This was a huge snowstorm weekend the night of January 28th. Going to January 29th, that morning, this region got a ton of snow. Okay? But there wasn't a ton of Snow 2:00am or whenever everybody left the party, it was really like, you know, 3:00am and whatever and so on. And so basically, you know, you can't say that, oh, he was already covered in snow. How do people not see his body?
- [38:12]
Chandler
So this is what Karen's defense essentially says that yeah, no one saw his body because it wasn't outside, it was inside until they carried it out and left him for dead. Also, investigators never searched the inside of the Alberts home. I mean, that's insane.
- [38:31]
Karen
Okay.
- [38:32]
Chandler
Someone dies, they're dead on the lawn and it's like, we don't need to go in the house. We're good.
- [38:37]
Karen
Presumably as well, you know, it's not like that was just a random house, you know, and he, he was on the side of the street. That was like the house where he was supposed to have gone that night. Like the house was fully a part of the story. So the fact that the house was never processed as a crime scene itself or at least searched in any way is so suspicious. Also, once again, these are all police officers. This is a police officer's home. You would think that he would be like, yeah, you come in, let's see if there's any clues here. What, you know, if his hands were clean. So let's go Back to Jennifer McCabe's Internet search where she said, how long to die in cold at 2:27am the morning of January 29, hours before Karen realized John was missing. Why would she type that? Why would she need to know that information? The prosecution previously reported that Jennifer McCabe was asleep at that time. However, her Apple Health data says that she was up all night and that she was on her phone searching at 2:27am so the way that the prosecution tries to explain this, and I'm pretty sure they got probably, you know, some iPhone expert or whatever to say this, but basically their explanation is that there was a glitch of some sort making it seem that that search was at 2:27 when it was actually made at 6:00am on the 29th when she was with Karen. So, you know, later that morning when Karen's trying to revive John and ask her to search that, but that because she was using that tab that she had maybe had open earlier in the night, that's why the search appears to be from earlier that night. And Karen's attorney, Alan Jackson, or actually maybe it was unetti, but let's say it's Alan Jackson because I, you know, I think he's.
- [40:10]
Chandler
You have a hard on for Alan Jackson.
- [40:12]
Karen
I do. He essentially obliterates that argument that Jennifer wasn't using her phone at 2:27. Jennifer's phone shows searches at 2:27am 6:23 and 6:24am with variations of how long to die in the cold. Jennifer McCabe also searched how long to digest food in between searches about hypothermia. She also deleted a ton of texts and calls from Brian Albert that night. She was apparently on her phone basically all night. So she didn't sleep that night. And, you know, even though the prosecution has allegedly done full forensic research on her phone, none of this evidence was ever turned over to the defense.
- [40:46]
Chandler
Why would you be deleting texts and phone calls? That doesn't make any sense.
- [40:50]
Karen
Spoiler alert, everybody. She's not the first person, you know who was at that party to be deleting stuff from their phone.
- [40:55]
Chandler
Something that I just still doesn't make any sense to me is it seems like kind of a crazy coincidence that Jennifer McCabe searched how long to die in the cold and then four hours later, Karen just happens to ask her to search for that in her phone.
- [41:11]
Karen
I was thinking about that exact same thing and I sort of think, you know, if I may, I'm putting on my juror hat. I don't know this all allegedly, but I think that she maybe is making.
- [41:19]
Chandler
That up, but wouldn't care. Does Karen say I didn't ask her to search for that?
- [41:23]
Karen
I mean, Karen hasn't taken the stand, but we don't know. Right?
- [41:27]
Chandler
Okay, Interesting. I don't know. The other thing is like, I just can't imagine this whole scenario, but let alone being like, hey, can you Google this?
- [41:35]
Karen
Right? I mean, but also I kind of can at the same time being like if you're frantic. So some more evidence that suggests a cover up and this is where you guys are just going to be like completely baffled. So there's camera footage all around the Alberts house which would normally clarify what happened that night. And you know, everyone in their dog has a ring camera these days. But conveniently the footage from when you know a lot of this stuff might have taken place is all missing. Additionally, the police chief in Canton lives across the street from Brian Albert. How amazing. There's all these police people in the neighborhood. But his camera is also not available for any use. It's not available. I don't really know what not available means, but it's not available.
- [42:14]
Chandler
Wait. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. This guy has cameras all around his house but there's footage missing.
- [42:20]
Karen
It's not available. It's crazy. And, and, and, and so another piece of footage missing that I've already talked about is the hour between when Karen's car was towed to the police station and then checked into the police station. Interestingly enough, that's right around the time the police found the red and clear plastic from a tail light on top of the snow. According to lead investigator Michael Proctor's affidavit, the detective said he arrived at Karen's parents house at 4:30pm and then towed her car at 5:30. But her parents security footage as well as the police report showed that these times are wrong and that Karen's SUV was actually towed closer to 4:12. So there's a 78 minute discrepancy that would have left him alone with the car with plenty of time to break her tail light and plant the pieces at the house for the team to find it when they arrived at 5:45 later on that day.
- [43:13]
Chandler
And apparently there's a key witness who is going to come forward who is going to testify about Karen's vehicle being in police custody and the information that the cameras mysteriously cut out for 42 minutes. So here's a clip regarding that.
- [43:27]
C
We have a law enforcement witness who will testify to seeing Chief Kenneth Berkowitz and Brian Higgins alone with Karen Reed's vehicle on the afternoon of January 29th of 2022 for quote, a wildly long time.
- [43:46]
Chandler
So is this a name that's been in the materials?
- [43:48]
Karen
Is it, Is this the name known to the Commonwealth?
- [43:50]
C
Yes.
- [43:51]
Chandler
There's somebody.
- [43:51]
Karen
No.
- [43:51]
Chandler
Okay.
- [43:52]
C
We. And we've now received video surveillance from the Canton Police Department that shows that there is an interior camera in the Sally Port garage where the car was housed. But in during the exact time that that third party officer indicates that Berkowitz and Higgins were in the sally port together. The video mysteriously cuts out for 42 minutes between 508. Between 508 and 5:50pm and just to be clear here, we never get to see the condition of the tail light when it's brought into the garage. When we do see the car, we see it after Brian Higgins, Chief Berkowitz, Michael Proctor and Yuri Buchnik have all had access to it. It At 5:36pm the car pings that it's arrived in the sally port. That's during the missing video.
- [44:51]
Karen
Okay, so a little bit more about this tail light. So the fragment of Karen's tail light, which supposedly proves that she had hit something, wasn't found until hours after the scene had been processed and Karen's car had been in their custody. Why did they go back after they'd already spent nearly two hours combing the snow for evidence? Why did they go back to go look for something else? What's more interesting is that the tail light was found on top of a bank of snow. But it had snowed almost six inches that night, mostly after the time Karen Reed would have left. So why was it on top of a snowbank? I mean, if, if he was under a layer of snow, why wouldn't the tail lights that were, you know, broken at the time of his accident also buried under snow? Doesn't make sense.
- [45:29]
Chandler
It doesn't make any sense. It's like the sloppiest cover up as well.
- [45:33]
Karen
It's like, let me just go toss.
- [45:34]
Chandler
The broken tail light over there.
- [45:37]
Karen
You know where my head is at as, as an audience member. Like, maybe they just think we don't even have to do a good job of covering this up because we got. We're all buddy, buddy. We're buddy buddy with everybody. And you know, in this case also.
- [45:51]
Chandler
You guys, Brian Higgins, who is another member of the Boston Police Department, was at the house partying. He went at 1:30am into work that night. He decided, I'm gonna go do some administrative work at the police station. Really? On a Saturday night after you've been getting drunk with your friends on an early Saturday morning?
- [46:14]
Karen
I just, you know, Brian Higgins, he's such a dedicated police officer, you know, and it's interesting because another police officer from that night was also, you know, calling him at 2:22am the police officer, you know, who went to go do admin work. Brian Higgins. Needed to talk to his other friend from the police, Brian Albert, that night.
- [46:31]
Chandler
But they both owner of the home.
- [46:33]
Karen
Yeah, but Brian Albert, I guess, claims to have been asleep at that time.
- [46:37]
Chandler
Okay, yeah. Why are they calling each other Chandler? That doesn't make any sense. Also, everyone, don't forget that around this exact time when Brian Higgins is at the police station catching up on administrative work after partying, Jennifer McCabe's phone. Google's how to Die in the Cold.
- [46:54]
Karen
At 2:27am Something I'm very curious about though is what was he doing at the police station? Like, what was he getting something? Like if it was a cover up?
- [47:01]
Chandler
I don't know.
- [47:01]
Karen
I'm. That's just curiosity.
- [47:03]
Chandler
I know. It's honestly such a good question. There were many phone calls early in the morning of John's death between people who were at the home. Allegedly. So there's calls between Brian Albert, Brian Higgins, Kevin Albert, Brian's brother, former Canton Police Chief Brian Berkowitz. In the early hours of January 29, in cross examination, Brian Higgins denied having phone calls with any of these men, specifically Brian Albert, during the morning of January 29th. However, when he was informed that there was data showing that the calls had taken place, Brian Higgins says, oh, it must have been a butt dial.
- [47:37]
C
Now, when he was first confronted, Brian Higgins first tried to claim that it had to have been a butt dial. That term, butt dial, is used by many of the Commonwealth's witnesses to explain the many calls between them and among them. And I. I've never seen a case where there have been so many butt dials, to be frank. But Mr. Higgins was already locked in. He already testified. His phone was on the bedside table. His butt was in the bed. The phone was in the table. The two could not have met, your honor. There was no possibility of a butt dial. And then Higgins admitted that. And that wasn't Mr. Higgins leaving Brian Albert a voicemail. He also admitted under oath that the toll records would have reflected a voicemail if they went to voicemail. He admitted that to call Brian Albert back, he would have had to first reach for his phone, then unlock it with the passcode or face id. Then he would have to press on Brian Albert's number. And that is exactly what he did. And he testified that that was what he did. He also testified that nobody from the Commonwealth, not Trooper Proctor, not ADA Lally, no one has ever asked him about that phone call from Brian Alberts to Higgins or the return. The return phone call from Higgins to Albert lasting 22 seconds, rather than get everyone's phone records. As this court knows, the Commonwealth has fought the defense at every turn in our question to get the phone records, They've persuaded this court that we were previously on a fishing expedition. To the extent the court once thought otherwise, it is clear this is no longer a fishing expedition. We do not have to go fishing to wonder anymore whether calls were made. We now know that someone who had been in that house when John O'Keefe arrived called the homeowner at 2:22 in the morning, three and a half hours by before Jon O'Keefe's body was found on the homeowner's lawn. We learned that neither party to that call ever revealed to police investigators or prosecutors that they connected by phone in those early morning hours. Just like Jennifer McCabe never revealed that at around the same time she was googling, asking how long it took for someone to die in the cold. A search that the FBI confirmed firms happened at 2:27 in the morning. Again, about three and a half hours before John O'Keefe's body was found. Now, for his part, Brian Albert also first tried to claim that his phone call to Brian Higgins at 2:22 in the morning was a butt dial. He said that he was awake and watching tv, but he was called back to the grand jury to testify a second time. The second time, Second time, Brian Albert changed his testimony to say that at 2:22 in the morning, he and his wife were in bed in an intimate situation. He claimed that he had his phone with him in the bed. So now he's claiming that it was during that intimate situation with his wife that he supposedly butt dialed Brian Higgins. He had no explanation, however, for how his phone picked up when Higgins called him back 17 seconds later. He had no explanation for the 22 second phone conversation that followed. And it's worth noting that Higgins testified he never heard any intimate noises on the other end of the line either. Brian Albert tried to maintain that he butt dialed Higgins, but again, that would mean that his butt also answered the phone when Higgins called back. And it doesn't make any sense. Both men denied talking to each other, despite being confronted with that mountain of evidence by federal prosecutors.
- [51:22]
Karen
It's just crazy because so many of these people like, oh, it was a butt dial. What? What? I know how iPhones work. Like, you can't just like, accidentally butt dial people like this.
- [51:31]
Chandler
Yes, it's like, it's the most unfortunate butt dial I've ever heard of. Also, apparently when these people are testifying, there's A lot of. I don't remember. It's a lot of Robert Dursting on the stand, which is. Oh, I can't recall. Don't rem.
- [51:45]
Karen
Right. So why are these calls so important? They're important because they take place five minutes before Jennifer McCabe's alleged 2:27am Google search of how long to die in the cold. Why was someone Googling that in the middle of the night? Once again, we ask. This is where Ben and I were driving in the car, listening to a podcast about this, where both of us just fully stopped, looked at each other, and we're just like the case closed. Case closed. Which is that Brian Albert got rid of his phone one day before receiving a data preservation notice, which is basically like, do not get rid of your phone. Like, it might need to be used for evidence. So Brian Albert responded that his phone was failing and that he needed to upgrade it, and that the timing was just a mere coincidence. This guy is, like, a veteran police officer. He should know how, like, these things work. And he also just happened to do it the day before he was going to get this preservation order.
- [52:38]
Chandler
There's also something very suspicious about the way this phone came to be gone. Okay. Because I don't know about you, Chandler, but if I get a new phone, there are two things that happen to my old phone. One, it remains in a drawer, and all my old data is still on it. Two, I hand it to the wonderful, you know, strapping young man or woman at the genius bar. Okay, as I'm writing. Or I mail it to Apple. Yeah, but he, like, destroyed it.
- [53:06]
Karen
Destroyed it. Like, broke it in half or something.
- [53:09]
Chandler
And, like, destroyed the SIM card. Right.
- [53:11]
Karen
Do you know who else, though, was in the mood for an upgrade? Brian Higgins. Brian Higgins got a new phone, too. Everyone in this town loves to get new phones, so. And do you want to know how he got rid of his phone? He wanted to just. He wanted to make a day out of it. So he drove to a military base outside of local police department and state police department jurisdiction, where, you know, it's very hard to get a search warrant or whatever because it's a military base. And he physically destroyed the SIM card and the handset separately. Then he changed numbers and carriers. Not suspicious at all.
- [53:44]
Chandler
Brian, I'm so sorry, but it's just, like, obvious. No one changes their phone number. The only reason you change your phone.
- [53:50]
Karen
I don't.
- [53:51]
Chandler
I've had the same phone number since I was, like, 16.
- [53:53]
Karen
Why would you drive to a military base to, like, dismember your phone.
- [53:58]
Chandler
I've also never covered up for a murder.
- [54:00]
Karen
Yeah, okay.
- [54:01]
Chandler
But I've also never destroyed any of my old phones. And I probably should, you know, given the embarrassing poetry that they contain. All right, so also the handling of the evidence. I want to ground everyone again in the fact that all these people are police officers. Was so poor. And you would think that police officers stumbling upon a crime scene would know what to do with it, but these men, rather than treating the evidence properly and putting, like, evidence on the snow and official crime scene bags, which offer sterile conditions and secure ceiling, they decided to just use some red Solo cups to collect blood.
- [54:37]
Karen
To collect blood.
- [54:39]
Chandler
Yep. Also, one of the key investigators is named Michael Proctor. And one of the things that comes out in this case is that this guy clearly hates Karen Reed. And there are text messages from the lead investigator, Michael Proctor, to his friends. So from this guy to his friends on his personal phone that make fun of her. Like, make fun of the fact that she has Crohn's disease. Make fun of her looks. Call her a whack job. I'm sorry. If someone's investigating your case, they should be impartial. They should not be making fun of your, like, chronic illness.
- [55:14]
Karen
Do you. Have you read these texts?
- [55:16]
Chandler
Yeah. They're atrocious.
- [55:17]
Karen
They're atrocious. And I. I, like, don't even want to share them because they're so atrocious and so awful. It's horrific. I mean, what I will say is there's one in particular where he's talking about how he searched her phone, and his friend says, you know, ask him about searching her phone or whatever. And he goes, yeah, no nudes yet. Haven't found any nudes yet. Or something. And it's just like, what? Where's the professionalism? Where are you, like, treating this like, yeah, being impartial, like you're saying?
- [55:42]
Chandler
And he calls her a whack job. He's like, he does not like her. And so that's also a big problem. Okay? So this case has been so mishandled that. And the jury doesn't know this right now, everyone. But this case has been so mishandled that the Department of Justice has gotten involved, and there is now a federal probe and investigation into how this was handled. And the feds apparently have a 3,000 page report which has not yet been released to the public.
- [56:09]
C
The Norfolk County District Attorney, Michael Morrissey, sent a letter to the Department of Justice. Those are the feds folks. Okay, so you've got the local Prosecutor sending a letter to the feds requesting that the federal probe of the Karen.
- [56:24]
Chandler
Reed case be transferred out of Massachusetts.
- [56:28]
C
So in the middle of. Of trying to prosecute someone for murder, the feds are looking at the people who investigated the case and investigated Karen Reed.
- [56:39]
Chandler
According to the defense, the report from the feds confirms the following things. Jennifer McCabe search was at 2:27am before Jennifer knew John was missing, not 6am when they were discovering the body. John O'Keeffe's injuries also could not have been caused by the impact from a car.
- [56:59]
Karen
So the prosecution's medical examiner testified in front of the grand jury that the injuries John suffered were not the result of a fight and that the marks on his arms were abrasions caused by blunt force trauma. Separately from the first investigation, the FBI hired an independent team of investigators, professionals, you know, they have three PhDs to reconstruct the entire accident. This was done unbeknownst to the defense or the prosecution. Their findings were that John Okeefe's injuries were inconsistent to the damage to Karen Reed's vehicle and that the damage to Karen Reed's vehicle was inconsistent to have made an impact with John O'Keefe's body. In other words, the car didn't hit John and John wasn't hit by a car. I mean, I have the chills.
- [57:39]
Chandler
This guy was killed. And this woman's life is also now being, you know, threatened essentially. And she's being framed, ostensibly.
- [57:46]
Karen
Another thing I want to just ground everyone in is that like, this case is not going to resolve or this trial, I guess specifically is not going to resolve with Jennifer McCabe or Michael Proctor or the Alberts being charged. This is about whether or not Karen reed killed John O'Keeffe or accidentally killed John O'Keefe. You know that beyond reasonable doubt. And so I just think that's really interesting to remember is that the evidence seems so strong against these other people and like that's not even what we have to necessarily prove out in this. This trial specifically.
- [58:16]
Chandler
Exactly. So also Chandler, the federal report confirms that Brian Albert and the Albert family, a lot of these people have a very close relationship with Michael Proctor, who is the Massachusetts state trooper who has led this case from the beginning. He's also the one who said all sent all the gross texts about Karen Reed, even though they all tried to downplay their connection.
- [58:36]
C
Trooper Proctor had no close personal relationship.
- [58:41]
Chandler
With any of the parties involved in.
- [58:42]
C
The investigation and had no conflict.
- [58:45]
Chandler
Okay, so we're just gonna conclude. So get to the final section of this deep dive with the main problems with this investigation also, you guys, this is not open and shut, like, obviously, we're pretty worked up, but this is still a mystery because there are issues with Karen Reed's defense as well. So there's allegedly evidence that there are microscopic pieces of taillight plastic found on John's shirt, which would lead you to believe that she struck him with that car. And data from Karen's Lexus retrieved by the state shows that her car went in reverse at a high speed. The morning of January 29, one crash reconstruction team concluded that Karen went in reverse for 60ft at 24 miles an hour. Is this how she allegedly hit John?
- [59:31]
Karen
The medical examiner testified in front of the grand jury that the injuries on John O'Keefe were not the result of a fight and that the marks on his arm were abrasions caused by blunt force trauma. Obviously, the FBI's investigation does not support this theory. The prosecution also reports that there's no dog DNA found on John's body or clothes. The prosecution also claims that John's hair was found in the taillight and that the taillight was found in John's shirt.
- [59:55]
Chandler
We need to ground ourselves as well, though, that we're in a situation where when they went to examine the car, there's some missing footage, there's some missing video surveillance. So it's like. Yeah. And also, evidence could very much be planted in this case. So a Massachusetts State Police trooper who specializes in crash reconstruction reported that John's injuries were consistent with being hit by a car at the speed Karen's vehicle was going when it was reversed. So this is what he says. He said the lacerations to the arms from the taillight, the dental, but the scratches where his hand could be, those are something that would be consistent in this particular case with striking the Lexus. So this is obviously in contrast to what the medical examiner for the defense said, saying that those injuries would not be the result of being struck by a vehicle.
- [60:40]
Karen
I think it's really tricky with this case because I feel like there are just so many different experts saying completely different things. And then there's also really bizarre evidence that doesn't seem to add up.
- [60:52]
Chandler
I mean, I think that's one of the difficult things about any case, honestly, is it seems like each party can always get a expert witness to testify according. And, you know, if we remember Johnny Depp's case with Amber Heard, both had expert witnesses that testified to their own stories.
- [61:08]
Karen
Right.
- [61:08]
Chandler
So it's tricky.
- [61:09]
Karen
Everyone. Karen's story also had some changes to it. So John's niece, who Karen, woke up early that morning, she had her Niece Call Jennifer McCabe, because I think the niece is the one who had Jennifer McCabe's phone number. So the niece who overheard, I think, Karen Talking to Jennifer McCabe says that Karen changed her story multiple times when she was on the phone to her that morning, that she had different reasons as to why she didn't go into the to the Albert's home with John. She said that she had a stomachache. And she's also said that, you know, she and John had an argument.
- [61:37]
Chandler
The defense's theory hinges on John having gone inside the house. Right. However, according to a statement from Norfolk District Attorney Michael Morrissey, cell phone data from John's phone found on the grass beneath his body show that his phone never entered the house. We did go over that, but we're just going to repeat it.
- [61:56]
Karen
Additionally, others in the home are saying that Colin Albert left the house around 12:10am well before John would arrive. And if you'll remember, Colin is, you know, potentially the individual that people think John had beef with and who could have hurt John.
- [62:10]
Chandler
Who had the bruises on his knuckles.
- [62:12]
Karen
Yes.
- [62:12]
Chandler
You know, but one thing to say is that there's no video footage, even though Brian Albert has all these cameras. And these are the same people who had all these feverish middle of the night phone calls to each other. And the one guy goes off to do some suspicious admin work and the same people who destroyed their phones. So it's like, okay, they say he left at 12:10am I mean, that's even to myself, even kind of suspicious.
- [62:32]
Karen
It's like, really?
- [62:33]
Chandler
How do you remember that? It was 1210.
- [62:35]
Karen
Right, right. So another piece of this is that Karen has insisted that her and John were in a loving relationship. But evidence from John's phone shows that she called him over 50 times that night, leaving furious voicemails and screaming that she hated him potentially. She was furious and worried that she couldn't get in touch with him for hours after dropping him off. Another part of, you know, sort of the cracks in John and Karen's relationship is relating to Brian Higgins, who's the ATF agent who was in that house that night. He was potentially having an affair with Karen, or at least they were exchanging flirtatious text messages. He voluntarily gave authorities his phone. I think right during, you know, the beginning of the investigation and right in the, you know, the midst of everything happening. And they retrieved 56 pages of text between him and Karen Reed. Some of which a source with knowledge of the messages has characterized as romantic in nature. One highlight from their messages indicated that they had maybe kissed a few weeks before John's death. Interestingly enough, the prosecution was able to get his text from Karen, but then Brian Higgins destroyed his phone later before things were going to be, you know, examined by everyone else. So that's interesting that they were able to see his exchanges with Karen, but everything else was, you know, he destroyed his phone before they could get access to that.
- [63:47]
Chandler
There's also surveillance footage taken of Karen driving toward the waterfall at 5:11am away from the waterfall. This is the bar that they went to the night before. So there's footage of her driving toward Waterfall Bar at 115 11am and then away from Waterfall Bar at 5:15am Then heading toward 34 Fairview, the house that John was found outside before arriving at Jennifer McCabe's home that morning. What was she doing during that drive? Had she already searched and found John's body? That might explain how she spotted John so quickly when everyone else couldn't, given that the police officer who responded to the 911 call had to use a spotlight from his cruiser to see the women crouched over John's body in the darkness.
- [64:34]
Karen
So Karen says that she was frantically searching for John before she, you know, connected with Jennifer and Carrie.
- [64:40]
Chandler
Which I will say for me, like, if Kagan's missing, I'm not calling people before I'm leaving. Like, I'm leaving my home, I'm out on the street. If my kid's missing, I'm gone. And then I'm calling you once I'm on the search already I'm hitting a.
- [64:55]
Karen
Parked car because I'm so frantic.
- [64:57]
Chandler
Yes.
- [64:58]
Karen
So prosecutors have been prohibited from fully analyzing Karen's phone's contents because it contained privileged communication between Karen and her lawyer, who she called a few hours after John died. So data in her phone could help explain John's ring camera system that registered 15 events between 6pm and the night he died and 6am the next morning. Yet there is no video of Reed's arrival back home that night. So, like, there's some ring camera footage missing from Karen's phone, too.
- [65:25]
Chandler
It's honestly, it's so strange. Also, John O'Keefe's DNA, one of John's hairs, as well as a fingerprint from two unknown individuals was found on Karen Reed's taillight. The defense doesn't seem worried about this development. Karen's attorney said it was planted on the vehicle. I mean, it was, you Know, the question is, how did that magic hair survive a 30 mile drive through a blizzard?
- [65:46]
Karen
Obviously there is so much to this case. I mean, this trial has had so many big revelations and we haven't even heard from everyone yet. So we're still waiting to hear, you know, testimony from the medical examiner on the case. We're also waiting to, you know, find out the content from Karen's voicemails when she tried to call John all those times that night. And testimony from Karen Reed. We don't know if she'll take the stand, but it will be very interesting to see if she does.
- [66:12]
Chandler
Yeah, I mean, this case is absolutely baffling. There's conflicting evidence on both sides. It's really not open and shut, but it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So we are glued to it. It's absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for listening and we'll be, you know, following it really closely.
- [66:29]
Karen
Yeah, it's just truly such a mystery. So I will be following this very closely and we will do our best.
- [66:35]
Chandler
To keep everyone updated and with that, we will catch you next week. Love you guys. Bye bye.
- [66:42]
Karen
Walking out of the Content Factory, I'm Tucker. And I'm Becca. And this is a podcast where we.
- [66:47]
Chandler
Take a break from climbing the absolute corporate ladder that is being a TikToker.
- [66:52]
Karen
That's right. This is the most corporate podcast for the least corporate girlies in this pod.
- [66:56]
Chandler
We're in the break room with you.
- [66:58]
Karen
Guys, our gorgeous, gorgeous co workers and you may be wondering what goes on in the content factory. Give us the agenda, Tucker. Well, each episode starts with a performance review where we talk about what's going.
- [67:09]
Chandler
On in the week. Content. We're making DMs. We're getting a little peek behind the curtain of the content creator life.
- [67:14]
Karen
We also will be doing an HR.
- [67:16]
Chandler
Report where we ask you guys during.
- [67:18]
Karen
The week what is some workplace drama you got going on? And we'll end each episode with a rapid fire and hire things we want to get rid of and things we want to keep.
- [67:26]
Chandler
For example, Becca, what do you want.
- [67:27]
Karen
To fire this week? My IBM. Yes, absolutely. Okay. And before we go, we have some action items for you. Please complete by end of day follow rate and review the Content Factory wherever.
- [67:41]
Chandler
You get your podcasts.
- [67:42]
Karen
And as always, we'll circle back soon.
- [67:49]
C
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Chandler
I'm a lawyer like the old TV.
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C
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Chandler
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C
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