273: Did Prince William say WTF to Meghan Using her HRH? + Italy Travel Recs ft. Travel Photographer Natalie Obradovich

Summary

Pop Apologists Episode 273 Summary

Title: Did Prince William say WTF to Meghan Using her HRH? + Italy Travel Recs ft. Travel Photographer Natalie Obradovich
Release Date: May 7, 2025
Hosts: Chandler, Elizabeth
Guest: Natalie Obradovich, Travel Photographer

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1. Special Guest Appearance [06:15 - 06:35]

Chandler introduces a special episode featuring her friend Elizabeth, as she's currently on her honeymoon. Elizabeth brings fresh perspectives and engages in discussions alongside Chandler.

---

2. Royal Family Drama: Meghan Markle's HRH Title Use [16:33 - 31:45]

a. Meghan’s Use of HRH Title Elizabeth and Natalie delve into Meghan Markle’s controversial use of her HRH (Her Royal Highness) title post her departure from royal duties. They highlight instances where Meghan has employed her title in personal and commercial contexts.

Elizabeth [09:13, 09:14]: "This is diabolical."

Natalie [21:37, 21:38]: "It's such an astute point that I didn't think of..."

b. Violation of Agreements with Queen Elizabeth The hosts discuss the agreement Meghan and Harry had with Queen Elizabeth to refrain from using HRH titles for commercial purposes. They argue that Meghan’s actions contravene this agreement, especially evident in public endorsements and branded content.

Elizabeth [09:35]: "There had to have been a moment where she knows the ring that her future sister in law has."

Natalie [21:40]: "That is using it in commercial purposes. This is advertising."

c. Prince William’s Potential Stripping of Titles According to a report from the Daily Beast, Prince William plans to strip Meghan and Harry of their HRH titles once he ascends to the throne. The insider quoted expressed Prince William’s disdain and intention to uphold the family's standards.

Royal Insider Quote [29:01]: "Prince William... loathes and despises Harry and Megan with every bone in his body."

d. Analysis of Meghan's Motives and Prince William’s Stance Elizabeth and Natalie analyze Meghan’s motives, suggesting an obsession with maintaining royal status while seeking independence. They predict that Prince William will take decisive action to uphold royal protocols.

Elizabeth [24:21]: "She's a bit of a walking contradiction."

Natalie [31:05]: "Prince Harry has lost his appeal."

---

3. Harassment and Legal Issues: Prince Harry's Security Case [31:45 - 35:54]

Chandler and Elizabeth discuss Prince Harry’s recent legal struggles concerning personal security. Harry's appeal to secure protection for his family was denied, highlighting tensions between the Sussexes and the British monarchy.

Natalie [32:47]: "Harry claims that Prince Charles... use his powers."

Elizabeth [33:08]: "I don't know how much worse it could get."

They consider the implications of this denial, emphasizing the lack of support from the monarchy and the ongoing harassment Meghan and Harry face.

Natalie [35:35]: "They are trying to make an example out of Harry."

---

4. Celebrity Relationship Troubles: Walton Goggins and Amy Lou Wood [38:40 - 43:55]

The hosts cover the strained relationship between actors Walton Goggins and Amy Lou Wood. Recent social media interactions suggest a falling out, with Walton refusing to discuss the matter publicly.

Elizabeth [39:46]: "I have so many thoughts."

Natalie [43:00]: "They are back in business."

They explore potential reasons behind the feud and the impact on their public personas.

Elizabeth [43:55]: "It absolutely is."

---

5. Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson Relationship [44:00 - 50:05]

Elizabeth and Natalie delve into the controversial relationship between NFL coach Bill Belichick and his girlfriend Jordan Hudson. Concerns are raised about the significant age difference and family disapproval.

Elizabeth [46:44]: "It is creepy. Old man. Young girl."

Natalie [49:00]: "I would be shocked if that didn't speak for how the husband feels."

They discuss how this relationship affects Belichick’s career and personal life, highlighting public and familial reactions.

---

6. David Beckham's 50th Birthday and Family Feuds [50:05 - 54:33]

The episode shifts focus to David Beckham’s milestone 50th birthday celebration, which was overshadowed by the absence of his children, Brooklyn Beckham and Nicole Peltz. The hosts speculate on underlying family tensions.

Elizabeth [51:03]: "It's very clear where David and Victoria's allegiances lie."

Natalie [54:33]: "I can't imagine she didn't do something for his kids."

They discuss potential conflicts between Victoria Beckham and her children, citing recent social media snubs as evidence of strained relationships.

---

7. Travel Segment: Italy Travel Recommendations ft. Natalie Obradovich [55:14 - End]

The episode concludes with a vibrant travel segment featuring Natalie Obradovich, a seasoned travel photographer specializing in Italy’s Amalfi Coast and Capri.

a. Travel Tips for Amalfi Coast and Capri Natalie shares essential tips for navigating the Amalfi Coast and Capri, emphasizing the importance of minimizing hotel changes to avoid exhaustion.

Chandler [59:33]: "I'd rather drive a half an hour... rather than move all my crap."

b. Hotel and Restaurant Recommendations Natalie recommends budget-friendly yet charming hotels such as Serena, La Residencia, and Mamela. She also highlights must-visit restaurants and beach clubs, advising travelers to book popular spots in advance.

Chandler [62:34]: "Fontelina is like the one if there's places you really want to go, book them."

c. Packing and Itinerary Advice The hosts discuss packing strategies, suggesting lightweight clothing and comfortable footwear due to the region’s hilly terrain and hot climate.

Chandler [66:00]: "Wear block heels... you're going uphill."

d. Shopping and Local Experiences Natalie encourages visitors to explore local boutiques and markets, noting Capri’s unique shopping opportunities that differ from other Amalfi Coast towns.

Chandler [73:21]: "She's playing this game in a really smart way."

Natalie [74:58]: "Pick when you want to go first thing in the morning or stay up until 10:00 at night."

e. Hosts’ Personal Travel Stories Elizabeth shares a personal anecdote about a COVID-related mishap during a trip to Capri, adding a relatable and humorous touch to the segment.

Elizabeth [83:41]: "We find there's like one Airbnb that is available and there's a reason it's available."

---

Notable Highlights and Quotes:

• Meghan Markle’s HRH Title Controversy:
  “This is diabolical.” — Elizabeth [09:13]

• Prince William’s Reaction:
  “Prince William... loathes and despises Harry and Meghan with every bone in his body.” — Royal Insider [29:01]

• Prince Harry’s Security Appeal Denial:
  “We shall not be on this podcast.” — Elizabeth [21:43]

• Walton Goggins and Amy Lou Wood Feud:
  “I'm not gonna have that conversation.” — Walton Goggins [38:40]

• Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson Relationship:
  “It is creepy. Old man. Young girl.” — Elizabeth [46:44]

• David Beckham’s Family Tensions:
  “It's very clear where David and Victoria's allegiances lie.” — Elizabeth [51:03]

---

Conclusion

Episode 273 of Pop Apologists provides a deep dive into the ongoing royal family controversies, celebrity relationship dramas, and concludes with valuable travel insights for Italy enthusiasts. Through engaging discussions and expert opinions, the hosts offer listeners a comprehensive overview of the latest in pop culture and practical travel advice.

---

Note: For the full travel recommendations and to participate in the ongoing giveaways, listeners are encouraged to visit the Pop Apologists Instagram page as mentioned in the episode.

Transcript

[Chandler]

Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they've got the right gear for writing, knee pads check and helmet.

[Elizabeth]

Done.

[Natalie]

See you dad.

[Chandler]

New Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

[Natalie]

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[Elizabeth]

So blessed.

[Natalie]

My bestie Elizabeth. Thank you so much for coming.

[Elizabeth]

Thank you so much for having me. This is such an honor.

[Natalie]

Oh my gosh. You are so nice. I dragged you reluctantly to join.

[Chandler]

Not at all.

[Natalie]

No.

[Elizabeth]

I'm so excited. I'm going to channel Chandler as much as possible.

[Natalie]

Oh my gosh. Well, you have rare sized shoes to fill.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

You know, truly lots of shoes to fill. I feel like there's so much to get into this week. So much has gone down pop culture wise. A lot of royal news.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And I didn't want to do a solo episode because a I just really want people to get to know you. Everyone. If I'm not recording on the show, I'm probably voice noting. Elizabeth, we voice note back and forth constantly and I just feel like you're one of the most funny, smart, wonderful people I know. And you're so chic and I just want people to get to know you.

[Elizabeth]

So I'm so kind, so happy you're.

[Natalie]

Here in lieu of our other favorite, Chandler.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

While she is sunning in Cancun.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. You know, can I hear a little bit about the wedding?

[Natalie]

Oh, my gosh.

[Elizabeth]

I know you'll probably do a whole recap, but I want to hear some tidbits.

[Natalie]

Okay. It was spectacular. It was really, really beautiful. And this is what I will say. I had no idea, really, how stressed out we all should have been about the weather. Because it was a beautiful wedding in Prospect park at the boathouse. And half of it was outside. And if we had done it all inside, it would have been candlelit and gorgeous.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

But it would not have been the same. And it was the most radiant, warm, 80 degree day.

[Elizabeth]

Thank God. I know the weather was not looking great. The forecast was looking a little precari.

[Natalie]

It was. And ever since the wedding, it has been rainy. It is horrific.

[Elizabeth]

Today's a disaster.

[Natalie]

Today is a disaster.

[Elizabeth]

Disaster.

[Natalie]

The day after their wedding, it was terrible weather. So anyway, they just got so lucky.

[Elizabeth]

I'm so glad.

[Natalie]

Yeah, it was beautiful. Everything went super well. I'll save the full recap with Chan. We are going to be debriefing entirely for global elites on Monday.

[Elizabeth]

Amazing.

[Natalie]

Yes. So we'll be chatting all things the wedding, but today is a special episode because we do have a lot to get into, pop culture wise. But we're also kind of doing some vacation themed stuff here today. Right?

[Elizabeth]

We definitely are.

[Natalie]

In honor of Chandler being on vacation.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. We can't be with her. We can at least attempt to manifest it in some way.

[Natalie]

Yeah. We can opine about vacations at least.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

One of Elizabeth's great friends is Natalie Abradovic. She's the photographer. She's a travel photographer and an influencer.

[Elizabeth]

Yep.

[Natalie]

She spends every summer on Capri. So we do a really fun Amalfi coast tips and tricks and Capri recommendations segment at the end of this episode. And to kind of celebrate the segment, celebrate vacation in general, we are doing a really fun giveaway, everyone.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So you don't need to listen to that segment. I know not everyone is going to Italy this summer.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Most summers I'm not in Italy, so.

[Natalie]

Correct. I think my first summer going to Italy and just not for a summer, just for a week or two was last summer anyway. But not everyone's doing that, so. I know not everyone's interested in that. However, you don't have to listen to enter the giveaway. We have a really fun giveaway on Instagram right now. If you go to Pop Apologist, you'll see all the details. So we're giving away a summer raffia bag of your choice. Up to. You can spend up to 3K. So whatever designer raffia bag you want to wear on your summer trip this year.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

All you have to do to enter everyone is follow Natalie and at Elizabeth Gaucher and opapologists and and you'll be entered to win the designer Rafia bag of your choice. You can spend up to 3K and then if you want 5 extra entries, leave a review for pop apologists and you'll get 5 extra entries for our very exciting sweepstakes.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, yes, it's super exciting. The price point. I can't imagine there's a raffia bag that would not fit the bill in this case. I think they're all up for the taking with that price point, which is really exciting.

[Natalie]

I think it's a really good, juicy giveaway.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And if you get a really good bag, you can wear it for many summers.

[Elizabeth]

So doesn't have to be Italy. Could be anywhere. Could be anywhere in the continental U.S. or, or outside of the U.S. everyone.

[Natalie]

Just find your local pool and you.

[Elizabeth]

Can wear your bag there in your apartment. You just trot it around.

[Natalie]

There we go.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Okay, so giveaway is up and live. So exciting. And if you are traveling to the Amalfi coast or Capri this summer and want to listen to the wrecks at the end of this episode, stay tuned for those. Okay, housekeeping out of the way. Yes, we can settle into the episode for that.

[Elizabeth]

Thank you.

[Natalie]

How are you?

[Elizabeth]

I'm great. Yeah, I'm good. Excited to be here. Um, it took a lot of restraint not to find myself in cocktail garb at the Prospect Park Boathouse on Friday.

[Natalie]

Oh, my gosh.

[Elizabeth]

I was just considering being there. Well, coincidentally, and, you know, took a lot of restraint.

[Natalie]

It's funny that you say that, because Chandler, she doxxed herself. Basically. She did this little Global Elite mini episode on Friday and she said where her wedding was because she didn't think it was coming out till after her wedding.

[Elizabeth]

Oh, my gosh.

[Natalie]

So I am curious if anyone, like, showed up just to take a look. Take a gander if you did. I would just be so curious and honestly, tickled.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Because my thought was, like, the worst case scenario is a few cute nyc. Like all. All everyone who listens to us Is super cute.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And so the worst thing that happened is a few cute New York City girls show up for a cocktail.

[Elizabeth]

Someone storied. I don't know if that was a friend of hers, but someone captured a moment that you guys posted that I thought was super cool. Yeah, that may have been a friend.

[Natalie]

It was. No, it was just a random photographer who was across the bridge during the ceremony and who took a video.

[Elizabeth]

It's such a great video. It looks very. It looks planned.

[Natalie]

I know. It's very, very special. Everyone, it went so well. I cannot wait to share all the details. I do have a wedding related listener question that I think we should weigh in on today. Okay, everyone, this question left me floored.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, I'm preparing.

[Natalie]

When I got this question, I was honestly floored. And this is the perfect type of thing that we voice note about into.

[Elizabeth]

The oblivion for hours, for hours on end.

[Natalie]

For hours. Okay, so someone writes, they say, not just someone. This is a dear listener, an og. They say, hi, I know sometimes you give advice and I need some as someone without sisters, if you're willing to help. I got engaged at the end of January and I had my dream engagement and got my dream wedding. Beautiful. My youngest brother just got engaged in March. I adore his fiance. Here's the thing. She got the exact same engagement ring as me. No, just bigger. Okay, listen. I was honestly in shock when I first saw it. I think engagement rings are super personal, emotional, and such a big, expensive purchase. I would never want to do or say anything that would potentially lead someone to regret their choice. So I chose not to say anything and just kind of got over it. I was feeling better about it until the other day. She posted a TikTok sharing each ring she tried on with a ranking in her opinion on it. Of course, my exact ring was second to last with a 9 out of 10 ranking and a quote needs more. And then the next slide is her fatter ring. I find this incredibly rude and I'm honestly just kind of shocked and sad about the whole thing. I commented a 5 on the post so she knew I saw it. Like basically saying, I like that ring. The best being my ring.

[Elizabeth]

Oh my gosh. I like. I mean, I like her style.

[Natalie]

Right? She basically wanted her to know that she's fully aware that she saw it. And in response to the comment, she said, I love your ring so much. We could have twinned like acknowledging.

[Elizabeth]

Acknowledging the reality. This is tough.

[Chandler]

This.

[Natalie]

This is diabolical.

[Elizabeth]

This is. This is tough. I think it's. I think it's mean. I think it's pretty cruel. And there's no world in which she wasn't self aware about what she was doing there. There had to have been a moment where, like, she knows the ring that her future sister in law has. And how does one not think about how that could be perceived and how that would feel if it's basically just an upgraded version of the ring that someone else has who's, who's literally in the family?

[Natalie]

No, it's absolutely insane that she thought that this was a good plan.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

There's like some plausible deniability.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

If you just have a similar ish ring and it's slightly bigger. I mean, we can't all reinvent the wheel with rings here especially, I think if you get a solitaire, it's true.

[Elizabeth]

There are really only so many. It's not like there are hundreds of. I mean, there are lots of varieties, but in general it's not like an innumerable quantity.

[Natalie]

Exactly. And if we're talking about something that's like a really, I think a style a lot of people have, which is a solitaire. And I did, I did take a look at the link to the TikTok, and it is a solitaire. There's some plausible deniability. Like your ring is an emerald, has two stones on the side. If your sister in law did that, it would be much more egregious because your ring is much more specific, I think. Right.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, I think that's fair.

[Natalie]

It's the TikTok. It's the TikTok showing her exact ring and then her affirming that it's her exact ring that she passed over. That to me sends this into like the stratosphere of horrible behavior.

[Elizabeth]

Absolutely. And again, there's so many details, of course I want to know, I want to understand what is their relationship? What's the dynamic? Is there generally resentment? Could this be perceived as her, like, getting back at her, you know, who knows what the backstory is?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

But I just, I think it's awful.

[Natalie]

It's so awful. And the thing I want to tell this listener is I think that the thing to be grateful for is that you're not this person. Right. Because clearly this person is unwell that they would do this.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. And I think if you asked 100 people unanimously, the 100 people would agree that that is was not a nice thing to do. And I just don't understand what the, what the purpose was. I think it was bad enough that she replicated her ring, but to Then basically rub it in her face in a very public way I think is pretty. Pretty unforgivable.

[Natalie]

Well, I think it's. I think we talk about this sometimes. Some people are just really self absorbed and selfish, especially when it comes to all things weddings. And there's some willful ignorance.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So they just don't really care if they're being rude. And I think in this case, this girl just really liked the ring but wanted a bigger size and she just didn't really care in her mind. She didn't really want to think about it.

[Elizabeth]

Right.

[Natalie]

And she wanted to make that TikTok video. And that was her truth or whatever.

[Elizabeth]

You know, it was worth it to her to potentially hurt someone's feelings because she felt. Yeah. She felt strongly about doing this for whatever reason.

[Natalie]

And I think. Yeah, I think that the takeaway is to this listener, a, just be so grateful you have the ring first. So it was your idea. It was what you wanted. You were not the person copying. And B, also that you are of sound and healthy mind and you are not, you know, headed for the asylum someday because that's where this person, this. That's where this woman is surely going.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. 100% probably in trouble for.

[Natalie]

For saying that on some level.

[Elizabeth]

But no, that. That never should have happened. It's inexcusable. I don't think there's any defense. There's no defense against that scenario. I just can't imagine a world again. I'd love to hear the other side. This will be part two. We're gonna have to get to the bottom of.

[Natalie]

This will be part two.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Yeah. So let us know if there's any updates. And we will. We will definitely keep the listeners updated.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I also got some insider gossip tea on Meghan Markle this weekend.

[Elizabeth]

Did you?

[Natalie]

I did.

[Elizabeth]

Go on.

[Natalie]

Okay. So someone messaged me. This is someone I trust, someone I really enjoy and think the world of. And she said, I'm sitting here with. With a friend who used to work for Meghan Markle's PR company or her publicist. She was part of the PR firm that worked for Meghan Markle before she met Harry.

[Elizabeth]

Wow. Yeah, this is. This is like bh. This is big.

[Natalie]

Mm. This is bh. And she says that Megan. That it was their sole job to make Megan more famous. Fine. That's what a publicist does, right?

[Elizabeth]

Yes. By definition, yes. Makes sense.

[Natalie]

And that's, you know, that's the game that these actors are playing, which is very lucrative. And that's completely fine. It's okay to be ambitious, she said. The thing that's interesting, though, and of note is that part of this person's job was creating the deck for Megan. Every time she would go to an event of all the rich and powerful men that would be there.

[Chandler]

No.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

No.

[Natalie]

Yes. They said, you can put this out there off the record, or like it's on the record because the source is anonymous.

[Elizabeth]

I would love to say that I'm surprised, but I'm just not.

[Natalie]

You're not?

[Elizabeth]

I'm not. I think that's in keeping with everything we. We know about her, and we'll get into a lot of that, but I, for one, am not surprised.

[Natalie]

I think that Meghan loves to have this image that she's like this Mother Teresa type figure. Right. Like, she was always doing charity work and just interested in charitable acts, giving back. She's always interested in doing good, empowering women. And she's just an old soul, A romantic who happened to fall in love with a prince.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. Can't help who you fall in love with, you know? Allegedly.

[Natalie]

Allegedly.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And so I think that this narrative or this fact, it kind of flies in the face of that image that she seems to really carefully cultivate.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, yes. And I think that's what she strives for and that's what she goes for, but I don't know that at the root of it, that's really who she is.

[Natalie]

Okay. So I'm so curious about this, because you always were kind of onto her.

[Elizabeth]

I feel like I've been onto her for a while. I don't know that I'm in the minority. And again, I certainly don't want to say anything that I will regret. You have a large platform and following, so, you know, I don't want to say anything that I will. That I will want to take back. But, no, I think. And I know there are a couple of headlines we want to get into. I think that one of the stories that we'll chat about really just underscores a lot of my. A lot of the issues that I take with her, truthfully. And I think that will. I think in time we will reveal kind of where I'm coming from. And I'm very curious to hear your take on. On this headline that we're going to get into.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

I think it's sort of indefensible.

[Natalie]

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[Elizabeth]

Okay, perfect.

[Natalie]

So Meghan, it appears, uses her HRH title in private. So everyone, when Meghan and Harry left the royal fold, when Megxit happened, as it was termed.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Okay. They absconded from the Cotswolds, from the UK from the Gardens to Santa Barbara de Montecito for freedom, for sunshine. Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And Meghan and Harry wanted to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. You know, they wanted the American dream.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

To build their own future away from the monarchy, away from those pressures.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Really what they wanted was to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be.

[Elizabeth]

That's exactly it.

[Natalie]

Yeah. They wanted to be working royals part time. They wanted to capitalize on their royalty through business dealings. They didn't want to be full time seconds in line to William and Catherine.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So the Queen, when this went down, she explicitly said that their HRH titles were no longer to be used for commercial purposes.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

This was very important to the Queen. They could retain the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, but their HRH titles would no longer be able to be used.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So in Megan's most recent podcast appearance, she did an interview with Jamie Kern Lima. She's the CEO of IT Cosmetics. Ostensibly Megan's neighbor and bestie. They always sit together in their rocking chairs. Back in the rocking chairs, just chatting as besties.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

In. As part of this, Jamie discussed a dessert that was dropped off by the Duchess of Sussex.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And she knew that this dessert was from the Duchess of Sussex because on the card. You guys, on the card, to her best friend, the note on the basket said, with the compliments of her royal highness, the Duchess of Sussex.

[Elizabeth]

Where do I. Where do I start with this?

[Natalie]

I mean, you have the floor.

[Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Natalie]

We're. Okay, we're. Sorry. I'll. I'm just gonna keep going for a second. We are best friends. If I. And that's how they frame themselves.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

You come over and we just sit together and chat.

[Elizabeth]

We sit in pajamas with no makeup.

[Natalie]

Mm.

[Elizabeth]

If. Please.

[Natalie]

Into the void. Can you imagine if I dropped a gift over at your house, by the way? It was. It was strawberry sauce and store bought ice cream. She wasn't exactly knitting a blanket for children.

[Elizabeth]

Right.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

She.

[Natalie]

But she threw together a beautiful gift. Whatever. But I signed the card with compliments, her royal highness, the Duchess of San Juan. Where we both live.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Elizabeth and I both live in San Juan, Puerto Rico, which is where we met. Which we'll get into.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Can you imagine?

[Elizabeth]

It is outrageous on so many levels. One of the things that I thought was so funny. One of the quotes from Jamie is, like, in that episode, this is how we typically catch up in pajamas and no makeup. And I think they go to great lengths to try to portray them as being best friends. There was something about the clips of them hugging and greeting each other. Like, first of all, I just. I call a little bit of. A little bit of bullshit.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

I really do. I just generally did not get the sense that there was a lot of intimacy there. So that's really. I don't know. I just. I didn't necessarily. And I. I could be off on that. But again, I think if you are truly very close with someone, you are dropping off a gift, you barge in the door, you plop on their couch, and you eat the ice cream together. Right. To your point, you're not using this stationery. And I think as I was kind of getting acquainted with this issue, part of Megan's apparent defense around why this was an acceptable use of HRH was that this was a private note. It was sent to a friend. It was not used publicly or commercially. She couldn't necessarily quote unquote profit from it. So that, I think, is, like, the defense for why that was. Okay. I would argue that is not at all the case.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

The basket was featured on a podcast by a woman who has 605,000 followers. There's a closeup of the basket and the stationery. The woman sells jam. Despite the fact that this predated her brand, There was jam included in this basket. And so in what world is that not an indirect or even a direct promotion of your brand, when you know that this type of thing is going to be disseminated to 605,000 followers? In what world is that not her potentially trying to use her title in a way that benefits her commercially? I don't. And again, as you stated, the agreement from the Queen, the statement was not that she could use it commercially. It was that it shouldn't be used, period.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

But even if there was that distinction and that nuance, even still, I would argue it still flies in the face of that agreement.

[Natalie]

I think this is such an astute point that I didn't think of, and I. I 100% believe you, because, you know that there's not any world where this was just casually. Jamie just thought, you know, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna take a picture of that jam and that ice cream she dropped off to show what a great homemaker, you know, and just incredible host and giving friend Megan is. No, this was entirely strategic.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

It was meant to support, as ever. Like you said, preserves are a product.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And so the. The homemade raspberry preserve sauce was absolutely very tangential to her core business.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And using the hrh. It is using it in commercial purposes. This is advertising.

[Elizabeth]

It absolutely is.

[Natalie]

And to say that it's not is willful ignorance.

[Elizabeth]

It's. That's our. That's our word of the day. That's our. That's our phrase of the day.

[Natalie]

Yeah. Which we shall not be on this podcast.

[Elizabeth]

No. Never. No.

[Natalie]

That is such an astute point. And I just. I come back to the idea, if you're good friends with someone, you're not signing with your title.

[Elizabeth]

No. The other thing I was thinking about, so you know that there was a call between Meghan's team and Jamie's team. I doubt Megan was on it. I'm sure there were many minions involved.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

You know that there was a call. So I guess my question is, was this an egregious oversight or was it more deliberate? I think we've probably agreed that it's more the latter. So my comment to that is, does Megan just really not care? She knows at this point what behaviors, what action she takes that will end up in the headlines, that will end up creating public outcry. She knows at this point. So I would be surprised if there wasn't a part of her that knew that this type of backlash would happen. So is this an example of her simply not caring about the ramifications because she would rather the promotion, or is there a case to be made for the fact that this was an oversight and some minion didn't think of it, and it was just. It was an egregious miss.

[Natalie]

So there's. I think there could be two theories here, and I think this is an excellent question. One theory, and I think this could be true.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Is that Megan is just. Well, we actually know this, so this isn't quite a theory.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

But one person could say Megan's just obsessed with being royal. She clearly is.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. Did you ever.

[Natalie]

Have you seen the tick tock of her where they show her about to read a children's book, and she's like, I'm Megan, the Duchess of Sussex, and today I'm gonna be reading this book.

[Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Natalie]

And then they flash to Catherine reading to children. She's like, my name is Catherine, and today I'm gonna be reading this. And they're like, no caption needed. Yes, Meghan is obsessed with the Duchess title. She's gonna let Mindy Kaling know she's no longer Meghan Markle.

[Elizabeth]

She is.

[Natalie]

She's like a hammer with the nail. Yes. Like a hammer with a nail. When it comes to being the Duchess of Sussex.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Despite the fact that they willingly left the royal family. And, you know, she claims she was so victimized, you know, by the monarchy, by the press, and yet she. It seems like she is insistent on maintaining her adjacency to the royal family with examples like this. So she really, to me, is a bit of a walking contradiction. I think she has an I. She's in the midst of a bit of an identity crisis. I think she doesn't know who she is as a private citizen. She's grappling with what that looks like. She's trying all these pursuits, podcasts and shows, but then she simply can't help herself is often what it feels like.

[Natalie]

Did you read Spare?

[Elizabeth]

I did not, but it's on the list, especially after today.

[Natalie]

There's a very revealing story in it, which is when Harry asked the Queen, the late Queen, if he can marry Meghan. Have you heard the Story, please.

[Elizabeth]

No.

[Natalie]

Okay, so in Harry's book, this is in his own words. This is him on the record. In his memoir, he says that he went to Queen Elizabeth to ask her. They were at her country estate and, you know, it's. It is required by law that he ask whoever he's going to marry if that. He asks the Queen to propose to whoever he would like to marry.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So anyway, so she. He says to her, I, you know, I believe I have to ask you if I can propose to Megan. I would like to propose to Megan. What? The Queen's exact response was, was nine words. She said, well, then I suppose I have to say yes, the Queen was not into Megan. I think we can be honest about that.

[Elizabeth]

I think we can assume that. I did read that Harry and Kate were big fans of suits, apparently.

[Natalie]

Is that shocking?

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. Okay, that's common knowledge. That is absolutely shocking.

[Natalie]

So surprising. You know what? Okay, this is also a very good point someone made.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So someone quoted Megan, because Megan in the Netflix documentary said, I started to understand very quickly that the formality on the outside carried through on the inside.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

That there's a forward facing wave being. And then you close the door and you, oh, great, okay, we can relax now. But that formality carries over on both sides. That was surprising to me. So Megan talks about how she just wanted to be like, barefoot in the kitchen with ripped jeans, giving Kate a big bear hug, you know, and Kate was very formal. And that was her. That was her complaint. She lodged with Oprah.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

I'm sorry, but Megan is now, years later, having only spent, you know, a year and a half essentially in the UK as a working royal. She's going by her Royal Highness with her best friend.

[Elizabeth]

It is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And honestly, this anecdote, this exact gift basket gate, to me is one of the primary reasons I think people find it very hard to root for Harry and Meghan. Yeah, I think it's hard to root for them. To put it simply, we all respected when they wanted to step back from their royal duties. That was their right. Absolutely. But again, to use your words, it's a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eating it too. If you do not do the work of a royal bear the responsibility of a royal deal with a lot of, you know, the ramifications of being a royal. You simply don't get to enjoy the fruits of being a royal or to be able to have the cachet of being a royal, to have HRH in your stationery. You Simply don't get to have both. And I just think this is an another shining example of why this couple is problematic and why they kind of can't quite figure out who they are.

[Natalie]

Yeah, it's such a good point, because being a royal is boring. Being a royal is doing a lot of. A lot of work you don't want.

[Elizabeth]

To do about Princess Dot. I mean, yeah, a lot of it is. It's not. It's glamorous by definition, but a lot of it is not glamorous.

[Natalie]

It's a life of public service. It's not a life of going to the San Vicente bungalows, going to private celebrity clubs, launching Netflix shows, having a shop. My. You don't get to have a shop my. And be an HRH bitch. Like, I'm sorry, a grip.

[Elizabeth]

You just don't. It's flagrant. It's consistent, and it's so avoidable. They just. They continue to do things like this.

[Natalie]

It's denigrating like the royal brand.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, absolutely. And I was. Yeah. I think one of the reasons that Queen Elizabeth was so deliberate about insisting that they not use this title is because inherently, by using hrh, they're giving royal seal of approval to everything that they do. And for all of these reasons, they are not qualified to do so.

[Natalie]

Well, also, again, like you said, the royal life is not what they're doing. What they're doing is filled with lots of pleasure, excitement, money, you know, independence, freedom. When she met Harry, apparently all he had, not all he had, obviously, is a lot of money, but what he had 20 million as an inheritance from, I believe, Diana. But that was it. William is one who will inherit virtually everything now. They're worth much, much more because they've capitalized on being royalty. And they don't, you know, they're not really royalty anymore. They don't do any of the work. And so I. I do think that I understand. And this brings us to our next topic, which is Prince William's fury over this. So this is according to the Daily Beast, but an enraged Prince William reportedly plans to strip Meghan Markle and Prince Harry of their HRH titles formally once he inherits a British throne from King Charles iii. So the quote from a royal insider says Charles might be happy to put up with this, but William will not be referencing Meghan's use of her HRH title alongside her lifestyle products, including including a pricey jam quote. He loathes and despises Harry and Megan with every bone in his body. He believes they've betrayed Everything the family stands for and the idea that they're using their royal status as a calling card will enrage him, the insider continues. Charles has completely lost control, the insider said, in part adding that it's quote apparent that Harry and Meghan have every intention of making his final years a misery. Megan, using her hrh, exposes how weak and feeble T is. She knows he won't do anything. There's no way King William will stand for this. The titles will simply be removed when he is king. A way will be found.

[Elizabeth]

I think it's interesting to think back to 2020 and all the conversations that must have been had about them leaving the royal family. I can only imagine what those texts looked like, but I think it's very interesting. You gotta get your hands on that.

[Natalie]

I truly do. That would really help the pod.

[Elizabeth]

It really would. Queen Elizabeth allowed them to walk away. She made a conscious decision not to strip them of their titles. And I think there are a couple of ways you could look at that. It sounds like the monarchy cannot actually remove a title outright. It sounds like it has to go through Parliament from a very embryonic reading. So it's possible that she just didn't want to deal with the clerical aspect of it. I would argue, though, that there's some symbolism to the fact that she didn't remove their titles. I think it shows that at the time, they were relatively amicable in their relations with the crown. Perhaps there was a, you know, a wish and desire for them to come back at some point. So to me, it is symbolic that their titles were not actually removed. I also think Queen Elizabeth probably assumed that she didn't have to do that because she was dealing with adults who understood the ramifications of their actions. Again, the gift basket situation and the fact that they're using HRH pretty consistently from what we have heard, really indicates that they're not necessarily keeping their end of the bargain. And so when William becomes king, he makes the decision to strip them of their titles. I think it will be somewhat justified because they have not held up their end of the agreement. They have flagrantly disavowed it.

[Natalie]

Yeah. And I. I kind of go back to it, and I think. I honestly really believe that there was a lot of Ranco, and I don't think it was amicable. Yeah, I think that I honestly get the sense that Queen Elizabeth was not into Meghan. That's why she said I have to say yes when he asked to propose. I think that Meghan made, you know, the Queen's final years a misery. Just like this insider is saying that she's making King Charles's final years somewhat of a misery. And I think it was more that they would have had to do the act of Parliament to remove Duke and Duchess of Sussex. The HRH thing, she said, you can't use it for commercial purposes. And I think what this article is saying is that William is going to say, no, you just can't use it, period. Like he's going to have that formally in stone. I don't believe that there's any intention to remove Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

[Elizabeth]

I don't think they can because it's. I guess it's Harry's birthright. And then as the wife, she would retain it as well, I believe.

[Natalie]

Which, I'll be honest, is annoying to me. Right.

[Elizabeth]

It's incredibly annoying.

[Natalie]

I'm happy for Harry to be the Duke of Sussex till the end of his days.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

He did not ask for this life. He was born into it and it was thrust upon him. Fine. But Meghan, her obsession of being the Duchess of Sussex and just shoving it down everyone's throats is so. It was just so annoying. And then the fact that, you know, she'll always have that title, I'll be honest, it's a little. It's a little irritating.

[Elizabeth]

It's very irritating. She will continue to use it and flout it as much as possible, as we've seen.

[Natalie]

She absolutely will. So sorry, everyone. This is becoming a Royals episode. Final news. Prince Harry has lost his appeal. He appealed to the courts in the uk. I don't really know the exact terminology, but he appeared. There are courts and he appealed a court case, you know, essentially trying to beseeching the courts for security for him and his family. This was denied and he has lost his case. The UK taxpayers will not be funding his security when he and Megan and their family go to the uk. So in a little bit of, like, a course reversal, I won't say correction, but a little bit reversing course here. I actually am Team Harry on this one. I think that. And this is what he says in the interview, he says that not giving them security was a way for Charles to try to keep him in. Right, yes. Because it's scary to not have security if you're one of the most hounded people in the world. And security is extremely expensive. And what he says is basically, yes, this was used as, like.

[Elizabeth]

As leverage. Yeah.

[Natalie]

You know, to try. There's carrots and there's sticks. And this was used as A stick to try to keep them in. And what Harry said is that when they realized this was not going to work, they should still at least want him and his family to be safe and provide them with that security. But it is not happening. And Harry claims that Prince Charles, if he wanted it to go through, he.

[Elizabeth]

Absolutely step aside and let it happen.

[Natalie]

Or I think kind of more probably like, use his powers and step in and make.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, So I thought that too, in the interview, he says if he would just basically, like, step aside, is what he said about his dad, which I thought. Because you would think he would. I mean, it would take, like, the flick of a wrist to make it happen. So I didn't totally get that. I would have thought the same. To me, this feels like they are trying to make an example out of Harry, and I think that they are trying to make his life harder. I think they are trying to say, you know, you decided to leave the royal world and therefore you are relinquishing your right to royal security in the process.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

One of the things I saw that I thought was very interesting, there was a quote from someone in the palace who essentially said, when Harry and Meghan are in the UK and they're attending royal events or staying in royal residences, they are entitled to royal security. When they're here for personal reasons, they are not. So I read that and I'm like, well, that's logical and reasonable. That makes total sense. We all know that they are on terrible terms. They are not visiting residences and they are not attending events. So I thought that was very interesting and to me, just felt like a very convenient way of, like, wrapping it with a bow to essentially say, you know, we've done everything we can, and when they're here under royal pretense, they'll be protected. When they're here for personal reasons, they won't. But we all know that they're not ever really going to be there, you know, with any type of royal adjacency. So I just thought it was sort of funny that they put that out into the world kind of to cover themselves. And we all know the reality that that's just not a realistic. It's not a realistic thing.

[Natalie]

Well, also, I think that not only are they not invited, but I will say if this was an issue where Charles just thought, I don't want the UK taxpayer to be annoyed.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

I'll just pay for their security when they're here.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

King Charles is so rich. The Windsors do really well.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So he absolutely could afford to hire the security for Harry and Megan on their semiannual or annual UK trip out for the family reunion or just doing whatever. And I think he should. That is my hot take. I just. You have that image of Prince Harry walking behind his mother's casket and you just think this kid was put to work by this family from a very young age. Yes. He's one of the most privileged people in the world. He is also, though, under the biggest microscope in the world. And I just think that it's something that he didn't ask for. And I just think as a parent, especially as a grandparent, you should just say and feel that, you know, all these things aside, your security and safety should be paramount. And again, you. You did not chase after this. We thrust it upon you.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So we're gonna at least provide that security because there are true wackadoodles in this world, especially with Harry and Megan.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

The vitriol against Megan. I mean, there are real psychos out there.

[Elizabeth]

Yep.

[Natalie]

So I don't know this. For me, it just corroborates Harry and Megan's case that this was such a toxic family to honestly need to escape from.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Also, when you consider that one of the things they talked about a lot is how, you know, each. Each essentially Royal household, like Kate and William have their household, they have their press office, then so do Charles and Camilla. And what they said is that, you know, they would essentially trade stories with the press. They would give a bad story to the press to. In order to deflect attention away from something they had done.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And so, you know that, you know, they've basically fed. I believe that they did feed Harry and Meghan to the wolves.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And most likely to deflect attention away from Andrew when all the Epstein stuff was going down.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

There's probably enough ro Royal.

[Elizabeth]

I know we could keep going. We have to cut ourselves off.

[Natalie]

We really do, you guys. I recently took a long haul flight with my friend Elizabeth and as she walked up to me in the airport, she was wearing the most gorgeous cashmere set. I immediately wanted the link, but then I also didn't want it because I did not want a new 500 thing to want. I asked her about it and she says, no, girl, this whole set was under 200 and it's real cashmere. It's from Quince. She said, Quince is the best. I immediately ordered it. I cannot believe that there is a company making beautiful, quality, everyday essentials at such incredible prices. What Quince does that is unique is they cut out the middleman and they partner directly with factories. That way they can pass the savings onto the consumer and we can get those incredible essentials we need at even better prices. I also love that they partner with responsible and sustainable manufacturers. Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quince Go to quince.comapologist for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comapologist to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comapologist I'm not what you'd call a chef, but I do know good bread and Herobread. Truly, it's changed the game. Their bagels and sliced bread are simply stunning. Soft, fluffy and perfect. With my go to combo butter and a sprinkle of flaky salt. Salt. That's it. Perfection. What shocked me is how something that tastes this good has zero grams of sugar, ultra low net carbs and is packed with fiber. The classic plain bagel has 4 grams of net carbs and 19 grams of protein, but you never guess that from the taste and texture. I've been using their sliced bread for avocado toast and honestly I feel like I'm eating a cafe quality breakfast without doing anything complicated. And the best part? You don't have to compromise just flavor, satisfaction and actual nutrition. Herobread isn't just bread loaves and bagels. They also have buns and tortillas that are perfect for dinner time. If you're trying to stay mindful without giving up real bread moments, Herobred is truly it. Herobred is offering 10 off your order. Go to Hero Co and use code pop at checkout. Okay, so in other news, yes, you watched White Lotus.

[Elizabeth]

I did.

[Natalie]

Walton Goggins and Amy Lou Wood, everyone. I want to bring everyone back to when things were good between them on social media. They start as Rick and Chelsea in the White Lotus and apparently they had a very close relationship off screen as well. So this is what Walton commented on her Instagram seven months ago. He says, you're the brightest light in every room. A human's human miss you followed by two Fox emojis seven months later. However, they are not even following each other on social media. So Walton has officially been asked about this. This was in an interview with the Sunday Times. Walton says, I'm not gonna have that conversation. And his American publicist piped in and said, we're not going there. Thank you. The British publicist said, next question. So later in the interview, the reporter describes how he tried to broach the topic of Amy Lee Wood again, and the publicist interjected to suggest they talk about his upcoming film, the Uninvited. Walton said, there's no conversation to be had about that. I guess the interviewer also tried a third time, and then the interview ended. I mean, thank you for doing the Lord's work to this interviewer. That. That's the journalism I'm after in 2025.

[Elizabeth]

Completely.

[Natalie]

Any thoughts?

[Elizabeth]

So many thoughts. Okay, so you. You set the stage with. With Instagram. There was one other thing I saw that I thought was notable. There was a. He posted a selfie at some point months ago of the two of them, and it was set against a Fleetwood Mac song. And I have to assume if you are an actor of his caliber right now, he's obviously very much in the public eye. You're not just picking a random song. You're. You're probably pretty choiceful and purposeful about the song that you're choosing.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Fleetwood Mac is notoriously a band that had a ton of drama, a ton of interpersonal relationships, a lot of cheating.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

I just. I felt like that was very interesting and very telling.

[Natalie]

The song was Silver Springs, right?

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Silver Springs, which is a song, I believe, about a breakup.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Which just feels too pointed to ignore. It's clear that something happened between them. We now know they're following each other once again, so perhaps.

[Natalie]

Oh, they are following each other again.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

This is huge.

[Elizabeth]

You could be on the path to a reconciliation. A reconciliation.

[Natalie]

Okay. He is following her. They're following each other again.

[Elizabeth]

They're following each other again.

[Natalie]

Interesting.

[Elizabeth]

Which is big. So something that I think is interesting about this whole thing. He's been asked now multiple times, like, what the deal is, what the tweet is about. And I would argue, if you want this headline to go away, it's not that hard to just bite the bullet and say, Amy's great, things are fine. Nothing to see here. The fact that he cannot bring himself to do that I find so interesting and I think underscores the severity of whatever happened. And we don't know what that is, and maybe we'll never know. But I just think path of least resistance for him would have been to simply dispel the rumors and say, you know, something got blown out of proportion. I think she's wonderful. He didn't do that. He continues to simply not respond, which, you know, maybe unintentionally, but ultimately has the effect of fueling these Rumors and making them even worse.

[Natalie]

Well, it's just so easy to say, oh, there's. There's nothing there. I don't.

[Elizabeth]

The press, you know, went crazy. Yeah.

[Natalie]

There were some crazy stories. We are. We are great.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

You know, and then I think you could just. You could just leave it there. Right. I mean, if we go back to the Karen reid thing, Jennifer McCabe, she's a little. She's a little convincing when she's like that Google search, she says, I didn't delete it.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Even though it was marked as deleted. And he could just say, I didn't unfollow her. I don't know. Like, that was a glitch.

[Elizabeth]

Plausible deniability.

[Natalie]

Plausible deniability, yes. And he could just respond to it. The idea of being like, we're not going there.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

I mean, it's giving Bill and Jordan 100%.

[Elizabeth]

100%. I will say I feel for him that he was asked a third time. I think he tried tactfully and professionally to shut it down. Going there for the third time, like, he. He cursed, I think. And that was what all the headlines said, which makes him look a little unhinged and so emotional about it. But I do. I do feel for him in that case, because who wouldn't, on the third attempt, get a little heated? Especially if something truly happened, which I think we can assume that it did.

[Natalie]

Jason Isaacs said about filming White Lotus, he says it was like a cross between summer camp and Lord of the Flies, but in a gilded cage. It wasn't a holiday. Some people got very close. There are friendships that were made and friendships that were lost. Oh, and in February, Walton told People magazine, amy was, quote, the person that mattered most to me during the experience. Even though my friends were there, we both became enmeshed in each other the way that Rick and Chelsea are, I think, the world of her. Okay. It's clear. It's clear.

[Elizabeth]

I think it's quite clear. And I don't think he really tries to hide it.

[Natalie]

No.

[Elizabeth]

They become enmeshing each other. Like Rick and Chelsea. You need not say more.

[Natalie]

You need not say more. And regardless of whatever happened, my feeling is that she was not into it after. You know, this was like a. I mean, and it kind of tracks. Right. Like, I just. I feel like I could understand on some level that going down during filming and then coming out of that and being like, I actually am not interested in this, like, much older guy.

[Elizabeth]

That was circumstantial.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

We're together every day. He's a scorned lover.

[Natalie]

And he is a scorned 100%. He was a scorned lover. I definitely believe that. But I like to see that whatever happened, it seems like he's trying to make it work.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

With his actual, you know, marital union.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And that is at least good.

[Elizabeth]

It is. It is. And I think time will tell.

[Natalie]

Time.

[Elizabeth]

We'll see if the comments start flowing on Instagram now because they're. They're back in business.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

So it'll be interesting.

[Natalie]

Time will tell all things. Time will also tell the fate of Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson.

[Elizabeth]

Jordan with an O, which is a very unusual spelling.

[Natalie]

There's a lot of unusual things about.

[Elizabeth]

This girl that's true. Probably least the least interesting of which is the spelling of her name.

[Natalie]

I mean, I feel like what's interesting about Jordan is apparently, you know, she is playing one of the oldest games in the book. Okay. Which is dating an older guy for his wealth and power. Women have done this for a long time.

[Elizabeth]

They have. This is not new news.

[Natalie]

This is not new news. And Jordan is not a trailblazer. Jordan has purchased in the last two years, apparently $9 million of real estate, allegedly. And people believe this is, you know, Bill Belichick is signing the check for these properties.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So she's playing this game in a really smart way.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Setting herself up really well.

[Elizabeth]

She absolutely is. It's super interesting. I think, you know, we can't necessarily. We can opine about whether they are true. That is really our favorite word. We opine about everything we do. It's hard to know whether or not she may love this man. The optics of it are not great, admittedly. I think we can acknowledge that we all have probably preconceived ideas about what the dynamic is, for sure. So we can't necessarily understand the depth of that and whether or not they are actually in love. What is very clear is how aggressive she has been in establishing herself in his career.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

He recently lost the show Hard Knocks because of a lot of the demands that she had shared with the team. She had said, if you don't show me respect, you won't be able to use Bill's ip. She wanted to see advanced copies of the show. Lots of different things were at play, and apparently it sounds like they reached a point where they were like, this is just not worth it to us. So he has now lost an HBO show about his new role as the coach of unc. That cannot be good for him or for his general for his wallet, for her properties that she wants to buy. Also, the interview with cbs, rather than the interview being about his book, which was the point. All that anyone's talking about is the fact that she stormed away, caused the interview to be super delayed. In what world is that benefiting him and his career? It's very clear that whatever benefit he thinks he's getting from her involvement, that is being entirely undermined by some of the damage that she's inflicting. So I just don't know what, through what lens he is seeing right now.

[Natalie]

It's the nether regions. It may be the lens of a.

[Elizabeth]

Different, I guess, but have a relationship with her. She doesn't need. You don't need to work with her. She's 24 years old.

[Natalie]

But I think that she's calling the shots, you know, and it's all on her terms. And I think that she's clearly wants a return on the investment of her time spent with Bill Belichick.

[Elizabeth]

It's not working. She's losing.

[Natalie]

It's not working for him, and it's really embarrassing. Right. And I think he's pretty mortified.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And, you know, he does have this book coming out, and it's. He has complained. Like, this is all basically people are talking about.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And when she said during the interview, she said, we're not going there. When they just asked how he met her.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

That's kind of suspicious, don't you think?

[Elizabeth]

It absolutely is. And so they. They've been vocal that they met on this flight to Palm beach in 2021, but we don't know anything about what happened between 2021 and 2023, which is when they first started posting together. She was still in College in 2021. So I think we can assume this. I can't call it a sordid affair. This relationship probably began much earlier than the Instagram post would have us believe. And I think the optics of dating a college student when you're in your 70s are. I mean, they're just. I don't know how much. How much worse it could get. But being in college is a level below someone in their mid-20s, so I think we have to assume they don't want to necessarily get into that.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

I've been wondering about what bills, former wife, what his children must think about this relationship. And something that I think is very much a smoking gun.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Nikki Glaser commented on Instagram.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Something to the effect of, you know, people are out for blood. This poor girl was just trying to do her job. Speaking to the fact that the interview got off track and she was trying to just get, like, allow them to focus on the book.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

Bill Belichick's son's wife commented on that post saying publicists are professional. They don't storm offsets and cause delays. So that I would be shocked if that didn't speak for how the husband feels and how the rest of the family feels. If your family doesn't support your relationship, there's usually. Usually something off, which I think we already know.

[Natalie]

You came with the receipts today, so thank you. And I think that really goes to show, as you said, how the family feels about this union.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

It's really about as bad as it can get. And this is my feeling. It's like, why not just go for someone who's 36? If you're over 70, just start in the mid-30s demographic. Like, you know, honestly, I would never. Okay. And, you know, you have your. Your Jordans to choose from, so that's. That works. Yes, but there are plenty of, you know, women around my age who probably would be. Would be down, whatever. It's just like going for that very young, young girl. Honestly, I don't know. I just think it should be illegal. It's just so gross, in my opinion. And it's truly. It's as bad as it could be for his kids, who. And his ex wife. Where, honestly, if I was his ex wife, I would just think, wow, what a loser.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

But for his kids, it's, like, so embarrassing, right?

[Elizabeth]

It absolutely is. Like, just. It's a. It's a bad look in every way. It's. It's creepy. Old man.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

Young girl. That's the trope, I think.

[Natalie]

It's lecherous and it's. It's just appalling.

[Elizabeth]

It really is.

[Natalie]

Okay, well, final piece of news before we sign off today. By the way, this has been so fun.

[Elizabeth]

So fun. Can we come back tomorrow?

[Natalie]

We absolutely can't.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I'm truly obsessed with having you on. The Beckhams. They are feuding right now. Okay, so David beckham had his 50th birthday. I actually had a little bit of a moment when I realized that he's only 16 years older than me. In my head, David Beckham is 30 years older than me. He's, like, in a completely different generation. He's like John Travolta in my head.

[Elizabeth]

That's so interesting. Really?

[Natalie]

Yeah, I just. I don't know. I'm like, I'm not that much younger than David Beckham. I'm a lot less accomplished, but I.

[Elizabeth]

But you are.

[Natalie]

I think that's safe to say.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

But we're not that far apart in age. I don't know if anyone else had that realization.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Anyway, long story short, that was like the least interesting commentary I can make. Apologies, everyone. David Beckham celebrated his 50th birthday with a huge bash.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

This is a big deal, right? Your dad turns 50.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

This is like a wedding.

[Elizabeth]

You're gonna go. You're a Beckham. This is being covered by everyone. Celebrities there, and it's probably gonna be.

[Natalie]

A banger of a party.

[Elizabeth]

Completely.

[Natalie]

And you know, the. All these kids like to party. For sure.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

There's anything we can say for sure, it's that. That. So apparently Brooklyn Beckham and Nicole Peltz skipped out on this celebration. They requested that they could come see David before, but David said that they either joined the bash or didn't come at all. So they sent birthday wishes. I'm always wondering what that means.

[Elizabeth]

What does that mean? Is this a tweet? Is this. What are we?

[Natalie]

Just an errant.

[Elizabeth]

What are you doing? Yeah.

[Natalie]

Okay. A passive aggressive text and news has broken. Joke that Brooklyn is apparently feuding with Romeo over the latter's relationship with Kim Turnbull. So apparently Brooklyn dated this girl named Kim Turnbull. She's actually seems really cool. She is a model and dj. She models for a lot of the cool brands.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

She's just a really hot young girl and she dated Brooklyn and now she's dating Romeo. And Brooklyn and Nicola are clearly not interested in being in her presence.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And that is why they did not attend David's 50th birthday.

[Elizabeth]

It's very interesting. And I mean, you have to assume if they did in fact reach out to try to see David and Victoria beforehand and they were rebuffed, as the news would have us think. It sounds like they're not on their side. I mean, I know there was a lot of wedding drama between Nicola and Victoria.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

But I just. I think this speaks to. It's very clear where David and Victoria's allegiances lie in this case, to not even meet up with your kids before a party. It's sort of curious.

[Natalie]

Well, and it's also. It's curious to side with the girlfriend who is now with the brother and has been with your other son rather than. She has a type rather than the wife.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

So do you have any intelligence? Okay. If you don't. But I'm curious if you. If you have any foundational knowledge on the feud between Victoria and Nicola.

[Elizabeth]

I have high level, I would say.

[Natalie]

Okay. Nowhere you can share.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing that I read was that the wedding was very problematic.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

So Nicola and Victoria. It sounded like Victoria had a very hard time taking a step back and letting Nicola run with things. So it sounded like there was a lot of issues when it came to the wedding planning.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

Basically, what I. What I gathered from my, you know, very cursory research was that the two have been falling out with the family for a long time. It honestly sounds not dissimilar from a Harry and Meghan situation where I don't think the family is the biggest fan of Nicola. That is what I gathered. I don't know if that is accurate.

[Natalie]

Well, I think that Victoria Beckham is obviously Victoria Beckham married to David Beckham.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And what I remember reading at the time was that when this falling out happened, Nicola ostensibly treated this wedding planner terribly. I remember Chasmer and I covered it. They like fired her just before. And it was just this awful situation.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And there was all this drama. But apparently also Nicola and Victoria Beckham just really butted heads. And I think that if you're Victoria Beckham, you're probably used to kind of being the alpha in almost every room you're in. And so maybe there was just this tension between this girl who is an heiress and doesn't feel like she needs to kowtow to the Victoria Beckham. In fact, she could feel like she maybe is a higher echelon. The Brits are very into hierarchy and hierarchy obsessed.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And so maybe that was a lot of the source.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Of that frustration. Was that competition?

[Elizabeth]

Completely. I think, to your point, they're probably both used to people deferring to them. And when neither person backs down, it's a standoff.

[Natalie]

And I'm sure that the pecking order just started to feel very unnatural for Victoria, who assumed that whoever, you know, Brooklyn was going to marry would probably, you know, just love having the iconic Victoria Beckham.

[Elizabeth]

Exactly.

[Natalie]

As a mother in law. And also just getting to, you know, hang in their country house with. With the barbecue and David cleaning up and the Dolly Parton playing.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

That's what dreams are made of for some people. But not for Nicola. No, not for Nicola Pelt, who.

[Elizabeth]

She's not impressed.

[Natalie]

She's not impressed. And frankly, she's probably been in much nicer places and homes.

[Elizabeth]

It's possible.

[Natalie]

And probably has been to nicer parties and has no interest in David's 15.

[Elizabeth]

Other places to be.

[Natalie]

Other places to Be. Well, this has been a gorgeous episode with you, my dearest.

[Elizabeth]

I'm so fun.

[Natalie]

Thank you for coming on, everyone. Elizabeth is truly one of my favorite people on this earth and I'm so happy you came on. Your observations are so astute. You're just so smart and hilarious and I'm obsessed with you.

[Elizabeth]

Oh, well, I've been listening to you for years, so I'm just trying to, you know, trying to keep up.

[Natalie]

Oh my gosh. All right everyone, so we're going to cut to our travel segment. So this is just a bonus fun little freebie, little free segment with Natalie Obrodovich, the travel photographer and one of Elizabeth's great friends. And then we are also just wanted to remind you we do have a giveaway that we chat about the beginning of the episode. If you would like to enter, follow at Natalie at Popapologist and at Elizabeth Gaucher on Instagram. Elizabeth spelled as Elizabeth and then G A U C H E R. All the details are on Pop Apologist Instagram page. And then if you want five extra entries, write publicist a five star review.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Natalie]

And with that we'll cut to our little bonus segment. Thanks everyone. Love you. Thanks. Thanks for coming. With Mother's Day coming up, I've been thinking about the incredible moms in my life. My mom, my mother in law, my sister Courtney. They are all just such goals of vibrant women who have incredible full lives and just imbue that everyday magic into their life by being wonderful moms. And they deserve to be celebrated. The experience of being a mom, having a mom or loving like one looks different for everyone. Some of us are in the thick of it. Some are learning from the incredible women who raised us. And some of us are still finding our own way. No matter where you are in your path, the women who give that kind of love deserve to feel cared for. That's where Cozy Earth comes in. Their insanely soft pajamas, loungewear and temperature regulating bedding feel like a warm hug mug. And yes, I did get my mom a pair of Cozy Earth pajamas for Mother's Day and instantly regretted not ordering another pair for myself. They're truly so soft and make every day feel a little more luxe. To celebrate moms Everywhere, use code POP for 40 off your entire order because she deserves the best. Pop Apologist is brought to you by BetterHelp. You know when you have the feeling that something is just off but you can't really name it? That was me before I started therapy. I Used to think therapy was just for the major problems in life. But what I have realized is it actually is a wonderful tool for learning to let go, letting things roll off your back and just having a better experience in your everyday. I'm so glad therapy is not taboo anymore. It's not a secret fix. It's self care, it's strength. It's what so many of us are embracing. And that's why I love betterhelp. It's online therapy that fits your life. No driving, no waiting rooms, just real support from licensed therapists who get it it. I've used BetterHelp and having that space to process, vent and actually get tools that help. It's a game changer. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist from their network of more than 30,000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. So you can find the right therapist for you. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com popapologist to get 10 off your first month. That's better. H E L p.com popapologist this well, well, well. I'm so excited because today we're doing a fun little bonus travel episode on summer travel to Italy, specifically the Amalfi coast in Capri. And we have a true expert joining us. Natalie Obradovich joining us. The queen of Capri.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, truly.

[Natalie]

I was just asking Natalie.

[Chandler]

Tommy's don't like that, but it's the truth.

[Elizabeth]

They've been who served like, like you've.

[Natalie]

Yeah, well, you know, I, I try.

[Chandler]

Not to say things like that, but.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that's so amazing. Really. You have become synonymous with Capri. I think for a lot of us on Instagram, following the fashion girlies, following the influencers, you spend every summer there. You have a book published of your photographs called Italian Summer. You are an expert on all things travel.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yes, yes. I've been going to Capri for this will be my think my 10th summer.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

So I just, I feel like I've always been fascinated with, with the country and I, I just, I fell in love with the island and I feel very safe there, which is great. And in, I just like have a community of people that I love. So it, it became a natural progression of me just ending up there and falling in love with it. So, yeah, it's, it's fun. Like, it's like weird that this became my life. Like, I'm not Italian at all. I'm Croatian, I'm half Croatian. So it's like it doesn't really make any logical sense, but. But it happened, so I'm happy about it.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Well, it's such a dream place, and there are so many people that really want to go. It's a huge bucket list destination for people who, like, let's say they've never been to the Amalfi coast before. They've never been to Capri. What part of it do you think they need to make sure they go to?

[Chandler]

That's a tough one. I feel like my opinions vary and change. Like, I think it really depends on your trip. Like, I think if you have, like, eight, nine days, like, you could do Positano and do Amalfi and then do Capri. Like, that. That would be, like, a recommendation if, like, you really want to do everything. But, like, my personal opinion is I'd rather be two places and, like, two not. And not unpack and repack. I hate packing and unpacking my bags and repacking them. Like, I have a personal problem with it. So, like, that's always what I'm gonna choose.

[Natalie]

No, the schlepping is exhausting.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it is. It really does, like, make a difference in your life. I'd rather, like, like, drive a half an hour or, like, 25 minutes to get into Positon in one day rather than move all of my crap.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. And stay there for two days. A lot of it. There's a lot of bags.

[Chandler]

And, like, move all my. Sorry. And, like, just be another hotel for two days and then move all my stuff again for two days. Like, it's not vacation. It's not really my thing. So, like, I'd rather. Yeah, I, like, just. I'd want to, like, relax and enjoy it, not waste my time packing 100%.

[Natalie]

When Kagan and I went last summer, we actually had a disastrous trip to the Amalfi coast, which is why this episode is more Anita than ever in these times. Clearly it's a PSA because we did things incorrectly. We stayed at Santa Catarina for two nights, and then we went to a hotel in Positano for. I forget how many nights. And then we went to Capri, and then we went to Narano, and it was just, like, constant schlepping, exhausting. And by the end of it, we were run ragged.

[Chandler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Elizabeth]

You'll get to know each area because you're out there long enough. Enough.

[Chandler]

And it's also, like, it's really hot. Like, it's. You know, there's a lot going on. Like, I've realized. I feel like the Heat like is really affects me. So I'm like, I'm not carrying a bunch of my around when I'm hot.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Chandler]

Like I'm not doing this like unless like it's unavoidable there that like somehow you end up with your stuff, dragging it. Like I try and avoid at all costs, but it always seems to happen. So like I would rather like what you're saying. It's the same thing. It's just like do two places you can take a boat. Boats are really easy there. It's not that expensive. Like enjoy your vacation. Don't like move around and try and see everything completely.

[Elizabeth]

So for someone planning a trip who's never been for the first time, in terms of timelines, how far out do you need to book a hotel versus restaurants? A beach day, a boat? Like what does that look like for someone planning a trip?

[Chandler]

I would just do it two months in advance, but that's being really safe. Like I'll call Aurora and like go the next night. It's not like San Tropez where it's like so crazy. There's.

[Natalie]

Well, I think that also I remember when I went to Aurora last time, we could not get a reservation in advance. Then our concierge at the hotel got us a reservation. And when I got there I was like, oh, you know, Hotel Jumeirah, whatever. And it was very clear that there were no reservations. Like this lady was just like barely handling the storm of people.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And she was just kind of like putting her name on the list. And we still stood outside for like an hour and a half.

[Chandler]

I mean they, they do that. They do that. That to me too. They were getting really out of control. Cuz I think they're just like booking stuff. They need to manage that situation. Yeah. And like there's just like a storm of people standing outside the restaurant. It's so frustrating. But yeah, what you can.

[Natalie]

And then you just need to walk up to some places and. And hope for the best.

[Chandler]

Get you in. Italians are like, they're funny because it's like they say no, no, no. And then it's like eventually, yes, you just have to like continue to ask and ask in a different way and like they'll like move table and something will happen. So that's like really the attitude. But I think Americans are planners. Like I would just try and do it two months in advance is like more than enough. It's like a formality. But I think Fontelina is like the one. If there's like places you really Want to go book them?

[Natalie]

Right. Book what you can ahead of time. Otherwise these people are very casual. I think that the vibe is very. Just come up and we'll try to get you in. And if you can't get in, then you have like a plan B or plan C and you'll be able to get into one of them.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, always work.

[Chandler]

I will say, I will say this. The weekends are very different than the weekdays.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

So very different. Like Thursday, Friday, Saturday are going to get really crazy. And then like the earlier in the week, like if you. So try to be easier. Yeah. So like if you exactly like try and do that and then. Or if you like want to go to certain place and you want it to like Aurora on a Friday night, like just book that far in advance. So it depends. And like I think the number one place for beach clubs that's like difficult is just Font Elena like that everywhere else is like pretty mellow.

[Elizabeth]

Lido del. What is that one? I know that's one of your favorite.

[Chandler]

That's like not too bad. Like you can do that a couple days in advance. I don't know. But it's like if you want the good seating, like where you want your chairs to be like because it's big there. But like if you go and you don't have plans, like you're not going to not get to do anything like it will. It'll get sorted out and every. Everything there is beautiful. You'll be happy no matter what. I can guarantee that. So don't get too stressed about it.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I think one of the things about it it's important to note is so much of the beauty of it really is the natural beauty. And you don't to go and stay at San Pietro and to have a good time like that. We could not afford that.

[Chandler]

I think there's plenty of other places to stay that are just as cute and like sometimes more charming. Cuz it's not so formal that you can stay. Like they're. They're great hotels in Capri that aren't expensive that.

[Natalie]

So that was actually my. What I really wanted to get to. Because what Kagan and I did that was a mistake is we basically just still stayed at the top end of our budget. But what that landed us in was hotels that felt expensive to us but were not great because everything is so overpriced price there. I wish we had just stayed in places that were budget and quaint and felt like a good deal. So we weren't expecting anything exquisite. Instead of Saying places where we felt like the investment was big, but then what we got was not good. So what are, like, the good budget places?

[Chandler]

Serena, which I love, is like, it's. There's a range. It depends that, like, I think it's €400 or something like that. I think it's something.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Around there. Depends on, like, when you book it in which room? La Residencia is another one. What's the other one? There's another one that I. I can't think of the name of. Hold on. Mamela is the one I was thinking of. Mamela. It's really cute. It's two doors down from La Minerva and it's adorable. And it's new and, like, they have a great pool and, like, the rooms are clean. I've stayed there. I've stayed at almost every hotel on the island, so that one's great. Cosmo Organo is good. Villa Brunella. There's like a famous photo of it. It's. There's one on my website. It has, like, there's a pool and you can like see all of Capri and there's like blue and white umbrellas. And then seeing a Flora is another good one.

[Elizabeth]

There's so many, like, bests and musts when it comes to restaurants, hotels, shopping. I think you might be able to put together, like, kind of a hit list.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Or.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I can do that. So amazing. Yeah. So, like, of, like, what you should do, like, where you can chop, like, all that stuff. Yeah.

[Natalie]

Thank you so much. Yeah. Okay. So amazing. When this episode comes out, we'll have a hit list for all the listeners for where they need to try to get to on their trip. Okay. So if you're going this summer, if you're spending like a week, 10 days, we're thinking two spots. One should be Capri.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Realistically. And then the other should be somewhere only Malfi Coast.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Correct. Yeah. And like, you can use your transfer day as, like a boat day. Like, so they, like, bring all of your luggage for you and like, you can stop in Toronto and do lo or cono on your way to Caprio, on your way to the Amalfi coast. So then, like, you're not wasting time and you're making use of your day and you can, like, stop and swim the whole time.

[Natalie]

Such a good tip. Because that is one of the most annoying parts is that getting from the Amalfi coast to Capri, I mean, I'm already thinking about it in terms of getting there and it's such A journey. So to make that its own little moment, make it enjoyable.

[Chandler]

I can help you with that. I feel like I do it so much now that I don't think about it. It's really, like, you just have to kind of rip off the banding and, like, and just get it over with and, like, get on the ferry and get over it.

[Elizabeth]

Right.

[Chandler]

You know what I mean?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

You don't want to do it, but it happens.

[Natalie]

But it happens.

[Chandler]

Everyone takes the ferry. It's like most people, even, like, most people that have houses there take the ferry.

[Natalie]

Okay. So that is.

[Chandler]

So, yeah.

[Natalie]

When I was thinking about it, as I was thinking, am I going to spring for a boat transfer or should I just do the ferry?

[Chandler]

If you don't have that much luggage, just, like, do the ferry. Like, La Minerva. And I don't know about other hotels. Like, they'll have a driver, and I think some of the other hotels would do this. They'll, like, come pick you up from the airport or the train station, put your bags on the ferry for you, and the porters take them off and, like, bring them to your hotel. So you're, like, not really doing as much.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Which is helpful.

[Natalie]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chandler]

So that's. That's another tip to, like, for your hotel is like, see if they have the porter service that will, like, help you transfer everything too.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

So, okay. The three bags you mentioned.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

What are we packing? What are we wearing? One of the things about Natalie that I have to just say, and you're going to be like, stop. In addition to being an incredible photographer, your sense of style is unbelievable. And I think one of the things about you that I always notice, you manage to find the most unique, distinctive pieces. They're often not even exorbitantly priced. I'll often be pleasantly surprised when I click your links. How do you find these hidden gems? I feel like on Instagram, TikTok, everyone's wearing the same thing. It can feel like, how do you find cool and unique things the way that you do?

[Chandler]

I spent a lot of time on the Internet. I feel like I don't go on TikTok. Like, it's not my thing. So, like. And I don't really, like, pay that much attention. Like, I don't follow, like, very many things, like, fashion influencers on Instagram. So, like, I really don't know what people are really wearing, which is kind of turning into a problem because I can't find anything to buy for summer. I feel like it's like when you have everything that's, like, so expensive. I feel like it's, like, not original, and it's just, like, what everyone else is doing. So I like finding stuff that isn't, like, so exorbitant. Yeah, it gets more fun.

[Elizabeth]

Completely. No, absolutely.

[Chandler]

It's also, like, then you can spend more in shoes and bags, because that's like. Like, I like investing in bags and shoes. That's my. My thing.

[Natalie]

I think that that is one of the good tips. Elizabeth. Elizabeth is one of my style shamans on this earth.

[Chandler]

Yeah, no, no, she is.

[Natalie]

And she's given me a lot of really good lessons. And one of them is, like, is invest in the shoe, invest in the bag, invest in certain pieces you wear a ton, and then try to get a lot of volume pieces from, you know, I will say it fast. Fashion stuff where it's more inexpensive and more accessible and you can get a lot of it because, you know, we have to get dressed every day.

[Chandler]

Day.

[Natalie]

So I think that's. It's honestly how most of us are shopping.

[Chandler]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

And another thing I think you do so well is, like, mixing and matching because you go for three months, like, even you can't wear something new every day.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

You do a very good job of making, like, rinse and repeat outfits actually feel new.

[Chandler]

Well, I mean, it gets rough at the end. I try and plan and organize and be like, okay, I want to have, like, a few dressier things if it's, like, a bigger night out, and, like, a few, like, more casual dresses for, like, when I'm doing something mellow, like, earlier in the week or whatever it is. So. And then, like, day stuff, it's just, like, however many bathing suits I can possibly get. Because, like, I. It's just the way it goes.

[Elizabeth]

They're very.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I know. I have so much stuff. And then I wear a lot of sets in the summer. It's just easy. And, like, it's. Again, it's so hot. I always complain about the heat over and over. Linen. Like, I wear a lot of linen stuff because it's breathable and.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that's so people don't need to bring a jacket.

[Chandler]

Depends. Like, I. I feel like a lot of people have been asking me about going in May.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Like, lately. And I don't know about a jack. I think a sweater, like a light jacket. If you're going in May, if you are there end of June through the end of August, you'll want to light your jacket on fire and never see it again. It is so hot.

[Natalie]

It's so. And you're sweating through dinner.

[Chandler]

You're sweating through dinner, you're sweating through lunch, you're sweating. When you're walking, you're sweating all the time. The only time you're not sweating is when you're, like, cold in bed and the air conditioning's on.

[Natalie]

So for people, if you're traveling there for 10 days, I think a way to kind of apply this is bring maybe three to four day and night outfits. And I would say be very, very concise with your packing, because most of the time, if you're traveling there, you're gonna be walking up and down stairs. It's. It's really hard. Everything's on a cliff, so it can be lots of stairs.

[Chandler]

Always you're walking. It's a lot of act. Physical activity. People always ask me about heels. So if you wear heels, wear block heels. That's.

[Natalie]

Wear block heels.

[Chandler]

Wear block heels. Like, that's the best way. Cause there's cobblestones and you're like, going uphill. I always wear block heels. Like, I don't ever wear a skinny little. You. You'll fall. Like, something will happen.

[Natalie]

What would you say the style is? Because I know there are certain places where you want to be really, like certain places you can travel.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

You want to be really dressed up. Other places are a lot more casual.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

We were talking before the episode about potentially getting in trouble if you're not covered up enough. So teach people how to dress.

[Chandler]

Oh, yeah. Should I tell them?

[Natalie]

Yeah. Okay.

[Chandler]

So in Europe in general, and I'm sure some people know this, like, if you have. Have a really skimmy bathing suit on and like a very thin cover up over your butt, they will walk up to you and tell you to get dressed. If you have your shirt on in town, they will tell you to put it on. So, like, being appropriate is important in public spaces. There. That's one thing which is really funny. Like, they have little meter maids that will come up to you and, like, yell at you.

[Natalie]

Really?

[Chandler]

They used to doing during COVID They did it with masks. And they've transferred into yelling at you in public for your clothing.

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah.

[Chandler]

It's really gone and fight with them before.

[Natalie]

So as a girl, can you wear a bikini top? As a top or no.

[Chandler]

You should have a shirt on. Yeah. I mean, if you're in town.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Even if it's a sheer shirt, you should wear a top and not a bikini top.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah. It's just like. And you can take it off. Like when you get somewhere like it's not like it's just like going through town and then for night I feel like it's not too dressy there. It really isn't like going out in New York because it's obviously like you're going to wear different kinds of things. I wouldn't wear jeans out but like you can wear like a pants and like, like a cute top if you want. Like you can wear. I wear a lot of little mini dresses. A lot of like more casual, you know, mini dresses that are fitted, that are really simple. Like I wear a lot of simple things that I can wear several times that I don't get sick of.

[Natalie]

The one thing to really note is like this is the place where you want to spend that extra three hours really planning out your outfits, maybe longer. And like know what you're bringing, know what you're packing. Because then you can pack so much less is when you pack it and throw. Then you can shop bag. Yeah. And then you can shop. Exactly.

[Chandler]

I would rather save room to buy clothes when I'm there.

[Natalie]

Cuz there's really good shopping on Capri.

[Chandler]

And Yes, the shopping is insane. The shopping. I think it's. It's the best buy of any at least vacation town I've been to in Europe. Like even sometimes like I'll go to Rome after and they have better things in cab. They have. It's like they have specialty stuff for these stores.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Like they have special things that they'll only do at certain stores or only and Capri for the season. And so like it's really cute.

[Natalie]

Really. The other thing to know, speaking of like clothes and fashion is really. I would say this is a hot take. But there isn't good shopping other on the Amalfi coast other than.

[Chandler]

No, no, no, no. There's like it's like gift shop shopping. Yeah. Like you can get like ceramics and stuff. Like that stuff is cute but like the real and like even and not just like the luxury brands. Like even like local Caprese brands. They have really cute stuff. Like there's like some really great stores that like they really only have there and like you can't buy them online and like all of that. So like I've been to all of these towns and Capri has the best out of all of them. Like the best linens, you know, the best ceramics I think come from. There's some good in Positano. Like there's like amazing jewelry that's not, you know, outrageously expensive. Like there's amazing like silks store that I love, like cashmere. There's a ton of stuff to buy.

[Natalie]

Yeah. And I feel like also. So that's. I mean, it's one of the reasons why I want to make sure I go back this summer is it's just such a fun experience shopping there. So.

[Chandler]

It's glorious.

[Natalie]

It's a whole. Yeah. It's really, really special.

[Chandler]

It's amazing. Yeah. And it's. And the other thing I will say, if we're talking about shopping when we're there, is pick when you want to go. Either go first thing in the morning. A. Because of the heat, because it's the only thing I care about, apparently. And also just because of the tourists. Like, they basically all of the, like, tourist boats come in from the day from the cruise ships from Naples and all over the islands and they like get there at 11am and then they think they leave at like 5 or 6. So, like, then it gets. It's like really quiet before and after.

[Natalie]

Okay, so go in the morning.

[Chandler]

Good. So go first thing in the morning. Or go stores in Capri. Like stay up until 10:00 at night.

[Natalie]

Oh, they do?

[Chandler]

Yeah. So, like, you can get a little tipsy and like go to the stores, which I've gotten myself in trouble doing. So I always like shopping at like 7 because, like, it's not hot. It's like more mellow. There's not a lot of people around. Like it's in. Or like, first thing in the morning.

[Natalie]

That's such a good tip.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

People are really curious about if you're on Capri. All summer. For me, I would be like a blimp by the end of it. So we want to hear about, like, how you're maintaining your gorgeous. Your gorgeous everything skin, body. I'll say it. Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Like, looking good all summer. How are we doing this?

[Chandler]

NATALIE A. The food in Italy is different. Our food system is damaged and not great here. Like, our food is different. So that's one thing. The other part of it is you're walking so much there, you're basically working out. And then I do hikes a lot. And then as far as eating goes. And I think a lot of this is because I've been going for so long and like, the way that Italians eat, at least generally, like my friends, is like, I don't ever order myself like a giant bowl of pasta. Like, everyone, we order a bunch of things and you're just tasting them. And like, I'm not really overindulging and like, I don't know if that's. That's a train thing, because I. But, like, I've never really gained weight when I've gone, like, unless I fully let myself go at the end of the summer and I start eating, like, random crap.

[Elizabeth]

Switching gears a little bit. So we want to hear about your background in photography and how you got into it. I know you're technically not classically trained. You didn't go to school for it, which, like, thank God, honestly, because that means there's hope for Lauren and I, and. But tell us how you got into it and any, like, adventure advice you have for someone who's maybe intimidated by the space, feels like they can't do it. Like, what would you say to your younger self?

[Chandler]

I think that me not being classically trained is probably, like, a blessing because I think I honestly don't know that much about my camera. I should know more. I think that my lack of knowledge somehow helps me sometimes in some ways. But I. So I'm trained as an interior designer. It's what I did for, I guess, 15 years and still sometimes do every once in a while. I was doing interiors. I'm from California, grew up on the beach, moved to New York. I was freezing all the time in the winter. I'd never experienced it before. So I would take these trips, you know, to, like, Miami or whatever. And I was, like, in my early 20s, and I would just take photos. It wasn't even really, like, deliberate, but I always really loved it. And then I started a blog. Or. No, it was a Tumblr. It was called Parata Toxic Distortions. And I started posting it. And then people would reach out to me and say they wanted to buy them. But this went on for years. Like, I. This went on for, like, at least five or six years.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And I was working. I was head of interiors for a firm. I was miserable. I never did well with boundaries as far as vacations. Like, I. I always just wanted to be traveling. And, like, I hated being in an office. I really hated it. It was not for me. And I hated people telling me what to do. Really disliked that. And it just was, like, my vacation days were always a problem at work, and I really was not happy. So my sister actually convinced me. She was like, people always ask you to do this. Like, why don't you just try? Yeah, like, quit your job. And I moved back to California. My sister helped me start my business, and it took a really long time. I have to be honest, when I started, I really had no idea what I was Doing, like, it was like. Like, looking back, it was like a travesty, you know, in terms of framing. And I don't even know if I had, like, a really good camera. Like, I had to, you know, work to get myself the camera that I eventually wanted. Like, it took me a few iterations of cameras to, like, have the camera that I have now, you know, and it's like, keep working at it. It's really hard to sell photos. It just is, like, in the way that I'm doing it. Like, other people, you know, photographers come in a lot of different forms. I'm doing something that's, like, very atypical. It's marketing and it's kind of a startup, like, on top of it being art. It's not like I have a gallery, but, like, it's the same kind of a thing. It's. It's very different concept, but I think it's like being very curious, wanting to get better, understanding, like, what you're good at. Understanding light is really important and, like, angles and doing it because you love it. Like, truly, it makes me happy and, like, I enjoy it. So I think that's why people gravitate towards my photos, is because, like, there's a true love and passion for what I'm doing. And I think that it translates into my photos.

[Natalie]

What do you recommend for people who, let's say they're not necessarily looking to become a professional photographer, but they want to take beautiful, artistic photos when they're on their trips. Do you have any travel photography tips? Like, what cameras?

[Chandler]

Yeah, I. So I had this camera for years before it became like a thing. And it was $300, and now it's 1500, so. And I broke it. So anyway, it's the G7X, it's a Canon, and there's a one that's a little less expensive. And when I do the tips, I'll add this one.

[Natalie]

That'll be amazing.

[Chandler]

That's like more like like 500.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

I think it's basically like I looked at. It's essentially the same thing, but that camera, and that's a point and shoot. So it's small. You can put it in your bag. It's not like something that I have. It's not like a dslr, which, like you different lenses and like, that's a whole situation that if you're going on vacation with your friends, like, it's completely unnecessary. I don't know. I feel like, what time of day? Yeah, what time of day? I think. I mean, your phone is Different. Like, it's different than shooting with a camera. So, like, magic hour is magic hour for a reason. Like, I used to always love to shoot in like the middle of the day when it's so bright out. But like now I like afternoon light much later, like at 4 and 5. Cause it also stays light so late. It's really what your interest is.

[Elizabeth]

I heard somewhere that we shouldn't actually be taking photos with our camera. We should be taking videos and then screenshotting to get a better quality. This could be a total misnomer. I don't know.

[Chandler]

Great. I heard that. Heard that. I believe you. Because the iPhone camera has gotten so egregiously bad. So maybe I'm gonna try that.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

See how that works for me.

[Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Let us know.

[Natalie]

I have a little contacts T2 and I like having a little film camera.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Trips. I feel like it just keeps me a little bit present in the moment, you know, Looking for.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I have like. I have a Polaroid. So, like that version of it. I don't really shoot with film because I get confused if I have too much. Too many things. Like I can't. Like, if I take a photo in film and then like, the exposure isn't right and I really wish I took it with my camera, then I'm going to be upset. So, like, I just skip the whole thing. Yeah.

[Natalie]

And honestly, the digitals right now are so much better.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I print really large scale. So like, I have to have a camera that can handle that, Right?

[Natalie]

Absolutely. So really quick, rapid fire. Any tips on traveling? Been to Ischia.

[Chandler]

Okay, so Ischia I love. I've been to Ischia twice. So, like, I'm not going to pretend like I'm a huge expert on it. I love it there. It's a very, very different than Capri in the Amalfi coast. Yeah, it's very different. It's not like as lush. It's more Neapolitan, I would say. It's like more local Italian. It's less fancy, I would say. And. But it's beautiful and I love it there. And it's. It's very cool. They have all these natural pools. And all the natural pools are warmed by Vesuvius, which is Pompeii.

[Natalie]

Wow.

[Chandler]

And there's a couple really cool hotels. There's Mezzatore, which I'm sure a lot of other people know. I have to add this to the list. There's another hotel that I love that's in San Angelo, and it's like a really Cute little town. I'll sometimes take the ferry into Positano and shoot by myself for the day and then come back at night. It's an hour ferry from Capri.

[Natalie]

Oh, it is.

[Chandler]

Oh, that's good to know. Yeah. You can take a ferry back and forth.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And then just to finish out, I know that you guys have a quick story. Elizabeth, you have a story about.

[Elizabeth]

I do. I do. I will set the stage. So this was back in 2021, summer. It was still kind of COVID y. Covid was not in the rear view. My husband and I planned a trip. We felt very cooped up. We knew that Natalie was in Italy, so we were super excited about a trip to Capri. We arrive. We candidly had kind of splurged on a hotel. We got a couple's massages as our first thing. Another splurge, and I feel, like, a little tickle in my throat. I proceed to, like, hack up along the entire massage. Phil is, like, giving me the death.

[Chandler]

Stare, by the way. I think this was, like, day two, wasn't it?

[Elizabeth]

This was, like, day two of the trip. This is the very beginning.

[Chandler]

To San Tropez first.

[Elizabeth]

That's why I wasn't gonna mention that. Thank you so much for that. So Phil is, like, giving me a death stare, as though I can, like, control my bodily functions. I'm like, do you think I want to be coughing during this? So we go back to our room. I get more and more ill by the minute. There's a boat day with Natalie the next day that I have to miss. Long story short, Phil's very concerned because I sound terrible. Phil feels perfectly fine. He sends a doctor up to our room. I take a COVID test. I'm negative.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Elizabeth]

Phil takes a COVID test. Honestly, like, kind of for fun. I don't know why that would ever be done.

[Chandler]

Why would we. Yeah, why would we have done that?

[Elizabeth]

I don't know why we did that. So Phil tests positive.

[Natalie]

Oh, my gosh.

[Elizabeth]

Dr. Leaves. We get a call from the front desk. They're like, how are you feeling? We're like, is HIPAA a thing?

[Natalie]

Right. Right.

[Elizabeth]

This information has been shared with the doctor.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

They basically tell us that we have to quarantine in the room for two weeks.

[Natalie]

No.

[Elizabeth]

Feels like, who's paying for this? They're like, you are, sir. We're like, what are the options? So, thankfully, because it was a rapid test, they were like, we technically can't prevent you from checking out until we get the pcr. You have A few hours. So we like basically pack in a total flurry. There's nothing available. Not a single.

[Chandler]

Literally, literally nothing available. And one of my friends, yeah, like one of my friends, he got scammed out of his house. And this was like the night before he got scammed out of his house and I somehow I found literally the last house on the island for him. And then the next morning they call me and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, please.

[Elizabeth]

So anyway, we find there's like one Airbnb that is available and there's a reason it's available. We check in. Phil tries to like, do something on the stove. The kitchen basically lights on fire. It's a complete safety hazard. There's an above ground pool. Like, it's a really bleak situation. We end ultimately being able to move to a hotel. I had to check in as myself. Phil had to hide. Like, we had to pretend it was basically just me and there was no one else with me. I'm ordering Phil size quantities of food. They see the luggage. Phil would hide in the bathtub. When they would come up and deliver food, it was a scene.

[Chandler]

They had to have known it was crazy.

[Elizabeth]

But Natalie was very helpful.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Oh, I can be.

[Chandler]

I can be helpful there. Usually. Some of my friends call me the fixer. Yeah, I just know all the answers. Been there for so much.

[Natalie]

I'm sure you helped fix a lot of people's vacations who are listening. So thank you so much for coming on and lending your expertise. Elizabeth, thank you so much for co hosting, sharing the mantle here at Pop Apologist. And you guys, thank you so much for listening and we'll be back on Friday. Bye.

[Elizabeth]

Bye.

[Natalie]

Bye. Clocking out of the content factory. I'm Tucker. And I'm Becca. And this is a podcast where we take a break from climbing the absolute corporate ladder that is being a Tiktoker. That's right. This is is the most corporate podcast for the least corporate girlies in this pod. We're in the break room with you guys, our gorgeous, gorgeous co workers, and you may be wondering what goes on in the content factory. Give us the agenda, Tucker. Well, each episode starts with a performance review where we talk about what's going on in the week. Content. We're making DMs. We're getting a little peek behind the curtain of the content creator life. We also will be doing an HR report where we ask you guys during the week, what is some workplace drama you got going on? And we'll end each episode with a rapid fire and hire things we want to get rid of and things we want to keep. For example, Becca, what do you want to fire this week? My ibs. Absolutely. Okay. And before we go, we have some action items for you. Please complete by end of day follow rate and review the Content Factory wherever you get your podcast. And as always, we'll circle back soon. Are you looking for your next case? Pluto TV has all your favorite crime dramas streaming for free. You're gonna need some backup, which means suspense is free. Very cool. Watch CSI New York, Criminal Minds, Blue Bloods Tracker, FBI and SWAT all for free. You can't outrun this. Someone is gonna pay for all this crime, but it's not gonna be be you. Take care of business fellas. Watch all the cases, all for free from all your favorite devices. We got you. Feel the free Pluto TV stream. Now pay Never Are you feeling stuck in your career or lacking employment at the moment? Experiencing symptoms of job dissatisfaction? You might be suffering from a common.

[Elizabeth]

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[Natalie]

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[Elizabeth]

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