277: Did Meghan Markle Really Ask for Every Vogue Cover? + Momtok Meltdowns on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Summary

Pop Apologists Episode 277 Summary: "Did Meghan Markle Really Ask for Every Vogue Cover? + Momtok Meltdowns on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives"

Release Date: May 28, 2025

In Episode 277 of Pop Apologists, hosts Chandler and Ben delve into a variety of pop culture controversies, celebrity insights, and intriguing personal stories. This episode navigates through Meghan Markle's purported demands for Vogue covers, the enigmatic Karen Reed trial, dynamics within the reality TV show "Mormon Wives," and other noteworthy celebrity happenings. Below is a detailed section-by-section overview of the episode’s key discussions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps.

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1. Setting the Stage: The Run-Up to the Episode

Before diving into the main topics, the hosts engage in light-hearted banter about their podcast recording setup.

• Chandler (01:05): “I cannot tell you how wrong it will be if she just makes away basically with his fortune.”
• Ben (02:07): “I took a bath. Okay, So I can't take.”

This conversation sets a casual and engaging tone for the episode, emphasizing their camaraderie and the behind-the-scenes effort involved in producing the podcast.

2. Ben’s Concert Experience: Beyoncé’s Performance

Ben shares his recent experience attending Beyoncé’s concert in New York, highlighting the performance's emotional depth and production quality.

• Ben (07:47): “Everyone, I went to Beyoncé on Saturday night and let me just tell you, it was incredible.”
• Chandler (08:24): “It is very touching when Beyoncé brings out Rumi and Blue Ivy.”

Key Points:

• Dynamic Performance: Ben appreciates the seamless flow of Beyoncé’s hits, contrasting it with Taylor Swift's concert style.
• Emotional Moments: The inclusion of Beyoncé’s daughters, Blue Ivy and Rumi, during the song "Protector" added a heartfelt dimension.
• Visuals and Set Design: Both hosts commend the spectacular visual elements and stage design, enhancing the overall concert experience.

3. The Karen Reed Trial: Unraveling the Theories

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the ongoing Karen Reed trial. The sisters explore various theories surrounding the case, focusing on potential misconduct and inconsistencies in testimonies.

• Ben (14:29): “Our mother is obsessed with Karen Reed.”
• Chandler (15:07): “Mom is just sending every single theory that there possibly is.”

Key Points:

• Family Involvement: The hosts mention their mother's deep engagement with the Karen Reed case, including active participation in social media groups and continuous research into the trial.
• TikTok Theories: They discuss a particular theory from a TikTok user claiming that the party in question was a swingers' event, which could explain Karen's anger towards her husband’s alleged infidelity.
• Jury Dynamics: Ben suggests that the younger jury pool may be more favorable towards Karen Reed due to generational shifts in attitudes towards law enforcement.
• Critical Analysis: The sisters critically analyze the credibility of sources and the plausibility of the emerging theories, maintaining a balanced perspective.

4. Reality TV Drama: "Mormon Wives" Insights

Chandler and Ben transition to discussing the reality TV show "Mormon Wives," focusing on cast dynamics, personal conflicts, and character developments.

• Chandler (26:02): “Is this a recession indicator? Because we could not be more wrapped up as a community with these Mormon wives.”
• Ben (36:07): “Leanne should be getting a direct deposit.”

Key Points:

• Character Analysis: The hosts provide insights into cast members like Demi and Taylor, highlighting their contributions to the show's drama and authenticity.
• Real vs. Performative: They debate the genuineness of cast interactions, questioning whether conflicts are real or scripted for entertainment.
• Future Predictions: Predictions are made about the show's continuation and potential new seasons, drawing parallels with other reality TV formats.

5. Meghan Markle’s Vogue Cover Demands: Fact or Fiction?

A contentious topic arises around Meghan Markle's alleged demands regarding her appearances in Vogue magazine.

• Ben (45:37): “Megan wanted a global cover. She wanted to appear in the US and UK Vogue simultaneously.”
• Chandler (46:12): “She is, like, very sheepish about the fact that they're doing a photoshoot.”

Key Points:

• Global Exposure: The hosts discuss sources claiming that Meghan Markle sought simultaneous global covers for Vogue, a request they deem unusual even for high-profile celebrities.
• Anna Wintour's Stance: They speculate on Vogue editor Anna Wintour's reluctance to accede to such demands, emphasizing Vogue's exclusivity and high editorial standards.
• Public Perception: The conversation touches on Meghan’s public image and the backlash resulting from perceived entitlement, contrasting it with her efforts to maintain a humble persona.

6. Brittany Bateman’s Legal Troubles: Litigation in Salt Lake City

The episode covers Brittany Bateman, a cast member from "Mormon Wives," and her ongoing legal battles.

• Ben (49:15): “She's in a lawsuit with her ex-husband claiming that he mistreated her during their six and a half-year marriage.”
• Chandler (50:26): “Any woman who would agree that being asked to have sex multiple times a day is traumatic.”

Key Points:

• Financial Disputes: Brittany is embroiled in a lawsuit with her mother-in-law over an alleged unpaid loan of $100,000.
• Personal Allegations: She also faces accusations from her ex-husband regarding emotional distress and coercive behavior.
• Public Image: Despite these challenges, Brittany remains a beloved and entertaining figure on the show, with her humorous and vibrant personality resonating with viewers.

7. Jordan Hudson and Bill Belichick’s Relationship Rumors

The hosts explore rumors concerning Bill Belichick’s younger girlfriend, Jordan Hudson, and their potential engagement.

• Chandler (52:13): “I would be panicked if I was one of his kids. This is a nightmare.”
• Ben (53:02): “She's already got impressive. It will be.”

Key Points:

• Engagement Indicators: Observations about Jordan Hudson wearing a large engagement ring spark discussions about the authenticity and speed of their rumored relationship.
• Financial Implications: Speculations arise about how Jordan might handle or influence Bill Belichick’s substantial fortune.
• Public Concern: The conversation highlights concerns from fictional perspectives about the impact on Belichick’s children and family dynamics.

8. Dakota Johnson’s Early Career Struggles

Chandler and Ben delve into Dakota Johnson’s revelations about her financial hardships post-high school and the challenges she faced before her acting career took off.

• Chandler (53:40): “Dakota Johnson struggled to pay rent after high school.”
• Ben (54:37): “Something that I think is interesting is that her dad did not want her to pursue acting.”

Key Points:

• Financial Independence: Dakota Johnson shares her experiences of financial struggle after not being accepted into Juilliard and relying on part-time jobs.
• Parental Influence: The hosts discuss the impact of her father, Don Johnson, cutting her off financially, pushing her to forge her own path in acting.
• Relatability vs. Privilege: The conversation contrasts Dakota’s genuine struggles with the often glamorized lives of other “nepo babies,” fostering a discussion about privilege and authenticity in celebrity narratives.

9. Claudia Ashrae’s Pregnancy and Social Media Presence

A brief yet heartfelt segment covers Claudia Ashrae’s pregnancy and her active engagement with her audience through TikTok.

• Ben (59:26): “I'm so happy for her. She's a vision.”
• Chandler (59:27): “Claudia Ashra, they do five days a week on their show.”

Key Points:

• Celebratory News: The hosts express their joy over Claudia Ashrae’s pregnancy, commending her proactive and positive sharing of this life event on social media.
• Social Media Savvy: Highlighting Claudia’s ability to integrate personal milestones with her public persona, the discussion underscores the evolving nature of celebrity engagement with fans.

10. Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

The episode concludes with Chandler and Ben reflecting on the discussions, expressing appreciation for their listeners, and teasing upcoming content.

• Ben (60:05): “They are like Olympic level podcasters.”
• Chandler (60:24): “We will be back on Friday with a mini.”

Key Points:

• Listener Appreciation: The hosts thank their audience for their support and tease future episodes, maintaining a connection with their listeners.
• Upcoming Content: Brief mentions of additional topics and guest appearances hint at the continuous flow of engaging content in future episodes.

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Conclusion

Episode 277 of Pop Apologists offers a rich tapestry of engaging discussions, blending celebrity news with personal insights and critical analyses of ongoing trials and reality TV dynamics. Chandler and Ben provide a balanced mix of humor, skepticism, and heartfelt commentary, making the episode both entertaining and informative for listeners seeking an in-depth exploration of contemporary pop culture phenomena.

Transcript

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

I would be panicked if I was one of his kids. This is a nightmare.

[Ben]

I don't feel like the one day more now stuck in my head for the French Revolution. Like it's time to rise up and take back what's yours.

[Chandler]

I'm sorry. This family should be marching in the streets against Jordan Hudson because I cannot tell you, I cannot tell you how wrong it will be if she just makes away basically with his fortune.

[Ben]

Well, well, well, well, well, well. Lauren is still brushing her hair. So now the brushing has concluded and we can begin this episode. How are you? Good morning.

[Chandler]

Good morning. Good morning to you, Chandler. I am so impressed with you because it's 9am sharp, Pacific time. We are recording. And it's always okay. It's always stressful. Everyone, when you're recording in a new environment, like, you have to set up the camera, figure out where you're gonna go. You always like test it out and you're like, I look hideous. This is gonna be unwatchable. People unsubscribe. So I said to you yesterday, I said, we have to start right at 9 because I have to get on my flight to LA. And you were like, I know, yeah, sounds good. And then I just assumed I would get a text from you like five minutes ago that said, you know, I need an extra 20 minutes. And here you are, gorgeous, glowing, imperfect camera, lighting and ready to go.

[Ben]

I can't take any credit for this. I had been to everything. Ben literally set up my camera and my lights and everything. And I took a bath. Okay, So I can't take. I'll take zero credit for this. And if it had just been me, I would have been like, I actually can't record this episode at all. And I would have just like, probably quit the podcast.

[Chandler]

Honestly, I want to thank you for your honesty and vulnerability in that moment because something had changed from your usual attitude when this level of task was upon you.

[Ben]

Oh, yes, I. I think that I would be amazing if I had a full time assistant, like the. What's Sutton's assistant? Javi Harvey? Anyway, I need someone like him.

[Chandler]

What is his name?

[Ben]

I think it's Javi. I think it's Javi. Actually. I think They've parted ways, I believe, but I'd love to have him on the podcast.

[Chandler]

You would do really well with a butler.

[Ben]

I would do incredibly well with a butler. And Ben is nice enough to do this you, you know, a month into marriage, but I don't know what it's going to be like three, four, ten years from now. He's going to be over it. So I should start looking into full time help.

[Chandler]

Thank God you have been. And no, it's just also, your attitude is so just, you know, you are. You're cheerful, you're happy, you're bright, and there's no huffing, there's no puffing. There's not. Oh, okay, let's go. We got to get going.

[Ben]

It's.

[Chandler]

This is great.

[Ben]

It's like when people say that celebrities are so nice. Well, it's because they have full time help. It's because they have help around the clock. It's quite easy to be nice when people are doing everything for you.

[Chandler]

It's. It's honestly like the joke Heather McDonald makes, which is like, whenever someone says, you know, oh, they're, you know, they're like the homecoming king, and they were so nice, and it's like, of course they were nice. They're attractive. People are nice to them. Like, of course they're nice. Anyway, we always give attractive, successful people so much credit when they're nice. And it's like, yeah, dud, life is good.

[Ben]

Absolutely. Life's easy. It's easy Street.

[Chandler]

Speaking of everyone, I just want to say we're so excited because I am hopping on a plane to LA after this recording so that we can record with Heather on Juicy Scoop. So this is going to be such a huge moment for us. We are absolutely beside ourselves.

[Ben]

We're so excited. Lauren. I have enough beta blockers on me to tranquilize a small mammal. And so, just so you know, we are prepped.

[Chandler]

You know what's so funny about this is I don't feel even nearly as nervous as I was for Ballerina Farm. Like, I feel good. I feel excited. I think the parasocial relationship between me and Heather is very real. So I feel like I'm about to go see my bestie.

[Ben]

I literally was thinking about that last night. I was like, I know her sister's name. I know that her niece just graduated. I'm like, how much do I. How much do I reveal about, you know, how much I know about her personal life?

[Chandler]

Honestly, that is a great question to ask and we should think about that because we don't want to seem creepy and stalkery. And this patreon you did in 2017, I was wondering if you could circle back. No. The one thing I will say is I do have a new charity idea for her.

[Ben]

Okay. Are you gonna show us?

[Chandler]

We wanna start charities.

[Ben]

Yeah, should you start. But shouldn't you, like, share it with her live tomorrow?

[Chandler]

No, I will, but I don't think she's gonna listen to this.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, please.

[Chandler]

This is actually, you know, duh. Of course. I don't think she's gonna listen to our pod on the way to record with us. But anyway, my charity idea for her is she should start a charity for women who are accused of murdering their boyfriends who are not hot. Oh, yeah. Because that grave, that's a community that is under duress. Okay. That is very disadvantaged and not hashtag privileged in 2025.

[Ben]

But I would say this community has been erased. Keith Morrison is not interviewing you unless you are hot. I'm sorry.

[Chandler]

No, there are not. People, you know, standing outside your courthouse in pink T shirts just marching on your behalf if you're not hot. That is. That is definitely something Karen has on her side that she doesn't speak enough about.

[Ben]

Let me also say that there are also so many men who are unattractive, where women are just, like, literally with signs outside claiming their innocence. Keith Ranieri, for one. Nothing was more chilling to me than those scenes at the very end of the nxivm documentary of the women outside the prison in New York. And he's like, doing Morse code with, like, the blinds or something, and they're trying to communicate with him from within the prison. And I'm like, isn't he like five' five?

[Chandler]

No, he's like five one, by the way. First of all, five' five would be way better. I'm pretty sure he can barely go on the rides at Disneyland.

[Ben]

Let me just also say that I'm not Heidist. Like, I. I've dated men of all heights. You know, Ben, I believe, is a 5 11. I'm not. I'm not, you know, 64 finance type of girl. But if you're. If, you know, if. If a man is abusing you, and he also happens to be very short. Like, I'm gonna make fun of him. I'm going to go for the jugular.

[Chandler]

I think it's. I think it's fine. I think no one in their right mind is defending Keith Renery. By the way, what is the shortest you've gone in men, though? I Kind of want to call this out.

[Ben]

I think, like my height probably. I think I've dated guys who are 5, 9, 5, 10, maybe.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Ben]

I've never dated shorter than me, I guess.

[Chandler]

So you are a little Heidist.

[Ben]

I mean, have you dated shorter than you?

[Chandler]

No, but I never made any claims to the contrary.

[Ben]

But you know what? Yeah. I mean, I share shoes with Ben, so that's like. That is. That's brave enough. I've talked about it at length here, but yeah, clearly I'm not. I'm not that vain.

[Chandler]

That is a very, very hashtag vulnerable thing to express.

[Ben]

I don't share all shoes with him. Let me just be clear. My feet are a little bit longer. His are wider.

[Chandler]

And your feet are actually longer than his?

[Ben]

Bit longer. Mine are more like, I would say moral, but like, his are wider. So he is like a bigger shoe size than me, obviously. And he's also not a small guy at all. He's not. He's like not. I mean, not small in stature, I would say.

[Chandler]

No, definitely not. He is. He is broad. He has a broad stature and goodly parents. But let's move on from Ben and his characteristics. Let's hear about Beyonce, because you just went to Beyonce.

[Ben]

Yes. Okay.

[Chandler]

And I want to know all about it.

[Ben]

Do you? I do. Okay, well, yeah, everyone, I went to Beyonce on Saturday night and let me just tell you, it was incredible. It was another three hour show that did not feel like three hours like Taylor Swift style, where it was just like incredible, like hit after hit. Also, she did a good job of kind of like changing up the song fast, you know, so it wasn't like you were, you know, stuck. If you didn't know a song, you were stuck for three and a half minutes. I was very, very touched when she brought out Rumi and Blue Ivy and they had that whole, like, scene during the song Protector.

[Chandler]

So I know nothing about that.

[Ben]

So there she has this very beautiful song called Protector, and she brings out. So Blue Ivy is part of the show, which I want to get into that. Blue Ivy is like 13, I believe, and she's a dancer in the show. And she brings out Rumi, who is her younger daughter, who's got to be, I would say eight, maybe seven or eight. I don't know, don't quote me on that, but. And then they have this like, moment where Beyonce is singing and she's holding Rumi, and Rumi's kind of just like waving to the crowd. And it's a song about being a mother anyway. It's very, very touching, and it's very sweet.

[Chandler]

No, that is very sweet. Is it giving you different feelings about Jay Z after going.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. I, like, I said to our friend Candace, I said, well, maybe he's not a bad guy. Like, maybe he didn't do all these things. I don't know. It's hard for me to reconcile, I think, the love I have for Beyonce and I, I. Beyonce has a very sweet energy when she's performing, where she's like, like, you know, when she says, goodbye, God bless you all, I love you. Like, she just. She has such, like a. I mean, she's one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen, and she's so. She's just very, like, tender and loving to the crowd, and I just can't.

[Chandler]

Oh, she is.

[Ben]

Oh, yes. Totally. Like, God bless you. I don't know. I was. I was like, I need to say God bless you more. I don't know why. Like, I felt very inspired by that phrase. I don't know. I was feeling things.

[Chandler]

We're good.

[Ben]

Anyway, the other thing, I'm going to just come right out and say, yeah, her concert visuals were spectacular. And the way that, like, yes. You know how, like, Taylor's concert visuals are a little Disneyland, little Toontown.

[Chandler]

Well, I mean, Taylor's also going back 12 years or 16 years or whatever it is in eras. But yes, there's a certain Disneyland feel, for sure. I mean, there's the women in the cloaks, there's the orbs, there's the Disney princess dress. Yes.

[Ben]

Like, there was a level of just, like, visual interest to. To all of the visuals, all of the set design, all, like, the stage design, I should say. And I was, like, very taken with it. I'll send you some photos, actually. You don't care, but okay. I loved it. I was like, I'm really glad I went.

[Chandler]

Well, you're making me want to go. I mean, I would love to. I would love to join the Beyonce tribe, join the people who love her. Do you feel like she plays less of the songs that nobody knows?

[Ben]

Yeah, I would say. I would say it's like a good mix of, like, hits. And then, like, I didn't know every song on the set list. But the other thing is that she uses a teleprompter. Did Taylor do this? I can't remember. Do stars just do singers just do this, like, with their songs?

[Chandler]

Like, she used a teleprompter to remember the lyrics.

[Ben]

There was a screen at the back of the general Admission or like, you know, like where they would hold the lights. That had all the lyrics. I mean, I understand the songs are, I don't know every lyric to every song and they're like. A lot of times I kind of like rap where it's like really fast paced. But yeah, I thought that was interesting.

[Chandler]

No, Taylor definitely did not do this. If she had done this, we would have seen 10 million TikTok videos of like. And here is the teleprompter for Taylor in case she forgets a lyric. We would have seen it.

[Ben]

I thought that was the.

[Chandler]

So no, I don't believe Taylor does that.

[Ben]

That was the only thing that I was like, is that normal? And I'm not. It's not to say that she's not an amazing performer and she's not literally. She is 100% up there and like the greatest, you know, singers or greatest dancers, singers, whatever, performers. So yeah, I loved it. It was great. And you know how full did the crowd feel? Totally full.

[Chandler]

Oh, good, good, good, good.

[Ben]

The crowd felt totally full. And yeah, I really had a great time.

[Chandler]

Where were you? Was it LA?

[Ben]

No, no, I went in New York. MetLife.

[Chandler]

Oh, you went in another situation. Gotcha. Well, gorgeous.

[Ben]

Thank you. Yeah, it was, you know, I like, I don't love going to concerts, but I like going to them every now. Every now and then.

[Chandler]

Well, I'm glad you had a great time. Let's get into, I think let's get into Karen Reed. Should we start there?

[Ben]

Oh my gosh.

[Chandler]

Or should we start with Mormon wives?

[Ben]

Let's start with Karen Reed.

[Chandler]

Okay, Chan, what is generally beside me at any given moment?

[Ben]

Two things, Lauren. Lotion. Lotion and a fully drank can of clean simple eats clear protein.

[Chandler]

It's always empty too. Because I chug it.

[Ben]

It's always empty. And they're strewn about your apartment at all hours. Any given moment.

[Lauren]

It is delicious. You grab it from the fridge, you.

[Chandler]

Drink it, it tastes good. Chandler.

[Lauren]

I drink it for the flavor. I drink it cuz I enjoy it. And the added benefit of the protein, it's chef's kiss. I absolutely love clear protein because it's.

[Chandler]

So convenient and it's such an easy.

[Lauren]

Way of getting in protein. I promise you, from the day clear protein came into my life, I easily added an extra 40 grams of protein to my daily intake every day on average.

[Chandler]

That is incredible.

[Lauren]

Everyone go to cleansimplease.com use code popapologist for 10 off the clear protein. It is a game changer.

[Ben]

Go to cleansimpleats.com. use our code popapologists for 10 off. Do you want to know what got me through wedding season in one piece?

[Lauren]

The companionship and constant counsel of your dear sister and co host.

[Ben]

No, I'm really talking about early bird gummies. I cannot even tell you how many times things got too stressful. Life got a little crazy. There were so many nights where we started to get into the nitty gritty of wedding stuff, and it just felt so overwhelming. We had so much to figure out. And when it was time to, you know, log out Azola and go to bed, I couldn't shut my brain off. But with Early Bird, I was literally able to take a half a gummy. I was able to get the sleep that I so desperately needed. My beauty rest. I mean, the reason why I look so hot on my wedding day, thanks to early bird.

[Lauren]

Go to earlybirdcbd.com use code popapologist for 20% off. One bottle will last you so long. And I can tell you it is the perfect antidote to middle of the night anxiety. Half a gummy and you're enjoying that show a little more. You're melting into your pillow a little bit more. You're enjoying a meal a little bit more.

[Chandler]

It's a panacea.

[Lauren]

Early birdcbd.com use code popapologist for 20% off.

[Ben]

So our mother is obsessed with Karen Reed. Our mom is very plugged in. In fact, I'll tell you that last night, as she was blessing the food for our, you know, Memorial Day feast, she said, please bless that the courts will find justice and the truth. She didn't mention Karen Reed by name, but she was praying for Karen Reed. And she has. She literally has some red solo cups around the house that say, free Karen Reed.

[Chandler]

Mom. Mom loves a bandwagon and she loves a cause. She loves feeling like there's been a miscarriage of justice and that she has the truth. That is, I think, one of mom's favorite sensations.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Chandler]

And I do believe. I do believe Karen Reid is innocent, and I do believe Karen Reid is hot. But mom is especially taken with the whole Karen Reid of it all. She's following the trial on a level that we were following Johnny and Amber. She's watching every day. She's sending TikTok videos of, like, someone's theory who got it from her grandma who knows someone named Karen and knows how to read. Like, mom is just sending every single theory that there possibly is.

[Ben]

Right now, she's in a Facebook group called Karen is Innocent. And this messenger group is popping off at all hours of the day and night. She is. She's using nicknames for different people related to the case that I'm having to. Like who? And she. She refers to the judge as Aunt Bev because apparently the Albert family is. Is, you know, in cahoots with the judge, and they call her Aunt Bev. Like, she's just. She's. She's more plugged in than anybody I know. And so she sent you and I both this TikTok. Well, she actually. She sent you this TikTok, and then she showed it to me last night. And I. I was floored because I had not heard this theory before. And I think this theory, to me, explains a lot.

[Chandler]

I'm so happy we're discussing this because she sends me a lot of fringe theories on Karen Reid. But when I saw this one, I just thought, okay, things are making sense in a way they have not before.

[Ben]

Absolutely. So basically what this guy says is that he is a garage door repair man. And so he is going around the Canton area a lot, and he's talking to a lot of different people. And that's. That's kind of, you know, his. That's his expertise. That's where he. That's where he's gathering this theory from. And he. What. What he says is that he's heard from people that the group of individuals that were at this party at the Alberts home, that they were actually swingers and that it was a swinging party and that Karen and John kind of knew that this was happening and this was kind of like a part of this group of friends. Because if you'll remember, they weren't super close with these people. That's why Karen was like, we'll go, you know, make sure it's okay that we're there. But what we infer from, like, this person on TikTok's theory is that Karen was actually saying to John, can you go in and see if that's. If they're swinging, if that's what we're walking into tonight? Because I'm not. I don't want to do that. She was asking John to kind of go get a temperature check to see if, like, that's what was happening. And all of this makes so much sense because if you'll also remember, Karen left him all those angry voice messages where she says, you're a effing pervert. You're sleeping with another woman. And so she literally thought that John walked into the party, was quickly greeted by, you know, this swinging entourage, and just fully you know, joined to the party in that way and left her behind or whatever. And that's why she was so disgusted by him. That's why she left him those, those angry voicemails because she literally thought he was just like joining the swinging party.

[Chandler]

I do think one of the great mysteries has always been like, okay, how did he get from the Albert home to this woman's home that he's having sex with or whatever. Like it just seemed like a little bit of a leap, right? Or a reach.

[Ben]

I think there was a reach that, okay, so now because he hasn't come home yet from this party where he's drinking, he's automatically hooking up with somebody else. But if John and Karen knew that like, you know, these three couples were kind of all doing this swinging thing, which isn't uncommon, right? And she said, go in there kind of, you know, see if that's what the, what the party is about tonight. Cause if that's what the party's about, I don't want to go.

[Chandler]

Here's my question with this theory because I think it does help make her irate. Phone calls make a ton more sense. But why, if this is true, isn't Karen telling us this?

[Ben]

I believe that the judge might have been like, you can't, that's inadmissible. Like you can't bring this, that's not like relevant.

[Chandler]

But she could talk about it in all of her interviews. She doesn't have to. She could discuss it.

[Ben]

You know, I don't know if that's because she's still going through this. That would like make her look bad if she's talking about things in the press that she can't talk about in court, you know, like if she could get in trouble. I, I'm really not sure why. I, I, I also was wondering the same thing. Like why hasn't this been brought up? The other thing that is a little bit tricky for me is I know there's like some relation here. Like I'm pretty sure that like Jen McCabe is like her sister is married to Brian Albert. And so it's like, okay, so you're like, there's a little familial relations. But I think it also makes it make sense why this entire group of friends has been so locked down and so tight lipped about everything because they don't want this to get out.

[Chandler]

That definitely, I would say tracks with how they seem to be kind of in cahoots with their story. It's interesting when you see the TikTok Side by side. And you'll see Jennifer McCabe saying something, or she says, like, it's not a story, that this is the truth. And then you'll see someone else. I think it's like, Brian Albert. And he'll be like, it's not a story. This is the truth. They basically have the same canned lines that they're giving during their cross examinations. So I. Yeah, I think it's a good theory. And also, one thing I will say about this TikTok guy is he doesn't give. Like gay bestie who loves gossip in West Hollywood. He gives. Not us. He is not us. He seems like the furthest person who would jump, you know, behind the camera and spill the tea on TikTok, which I don't know, just kind of leads me to believe, like, this guy does. What. What did he say he does? Garage door repairman.

[Ben]

Yeah. And he's around. In Canton. Around the area.

[Chandler]

He has the full Canton accent. And I don't know, I think I am buying a little bit of what he's selling.

[Ben]

I think it's really the only plausible theory about why these people are acting like that they're acting. And why they're all, like. Why they're all protecting each other. They don't want this to come. They're part of the police department, the respected members in the community, or at least like they were. You know, they have kids in the community. They.

[Chandler]

Yeah, well, especially Chandler. Especially if Colin Albert really was a drug dealer. And it's like the police are swinging. They're doing drugs. This is not a good look.

[Ben]

No, it's not a good look.

[Chandler]

And it's giving. It's giving him its tale. It's giving the. What do they call it? The. Who's the woman in the Bible? Jezebel Repute. The Jezebel. It's giving like, the Albert's house is where the Jezebels. And that's where law enforcement who are supposed to be upholding the laws of the land are up to no good.

[Ben]

A couple more interesting things of note. I have been following this case. Not as closely as Mom. I'm not in, you know, several messenger chats, but I listened to the serial podcast. It's a true crime podcast. And, you know, she dips into the Karen Reid trial every now and then and does, like, a recap of the week. So the host of this podcast went to the trial this past week, and she just was talking about a few things, and one of them is that the house where the party happened, you Know the yard where John was found, it's actually like 34 Fairview. 34 Fairview. It's actually quite a small yard, which really, like, makes the fact that Brian Albert and his wife, nobody came outside of the house the whole time that, you know, the police were there trying to collect evidence, like, that makes that whole thing feel so weird that he just like, well, wasn't. I'm not gonna get involved. Like, that is, like, one of the weirdest parts to me. I know we've talked about it, but the fact that the yard is really small. It's not like it was like it's around the block or like this is this big, sprawling yard. He just couldn't see well.

[Chandler]

And that they all left the house and just happened to not see him on the lawn. I think that that is. That is new information, right. That this host that she went. She saw the front lawn and it's very small. We have not gotten that. I think that is interesting. And we won' belabor all of the conflicting information in this case and why it's so. Why so many people believe in free Karen Read Karen is hot. But I think that I. I think that. I think that Karen is either getting off or it's going to be another mistrial. That's what I've heard.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

That a lot of people think it's going to be another mistrial.

[Ben]

I believe that this jury pool is a lot younger than the previous jury pool, which I think will work in her favor, because I think, in general.

[Chandler]

Is it.

[Ben]

I would. I would just say that I think younger people are just more distrustful of cops.

[Chandler]

So I also think young people are just so used to, like, TikTok sleuths and the real. You know, we know the truth about what's going on. And I don't know, I definitely agree with you that it bodes well for her that this is a younger jury.

[Ben]

Yeah. Agreed.

[Chandler]

Let's go out west to another group of swingers. But on the way there, can I share with you one of my favorite, most romantic scenes, I think, of any television show or program?

[Ben]

I was wondering when you were gonna bring this up.

[Chandler]

When Sandy Cohen grabs his watch out of the bowl. Remember in the OC when they go to that swingers party and Sandy Cohen grabs his watch out of the ball with. With Kristen or Kirsten. Kirsten. I think it's Kirsten. It's. It's Kirsten. Yeah. Anyway, do you remember that scene?

[Ben]

No, I do not, but please share more.

[Chandler]

Oh, my gosh. It is just so hot. So they go to the swingers party, basically, like, to kind of. He basically says to her, you would never actually do this. And she's like, yeah, I would. Trying. If. If memory serves, she's trying to, like, be adventurous or seem cool. But they get there. She has no interest in any of these guys. And she's in. Kirsten is just, like, so not into it. Right. But she's trying to, like, not be called on her bluff. And anyway, the party is this, obviously a swingers party. And how it works is you put your watch in a bowl and then the women pick the watches, right? So each guy, you know, starts getting, like, a watch, gets picked from the bowl, and they leave together and go into the room until finally it's just Sandy and Kirsten in the room. And he pulls his watch out of his pocket like he never was gonna actually be with another woman. And he just gives her this smoldering look. And, you know, I will say Sandy Cohen really is the hottest. The hottest guy in the OC I will die on that hill.

[Ben]

You know, ladies, if you're looking for a romantic kind of, you know, if you need to romantically jump your car. Your romantic car, go to a swingers party and see if your husband actually engages.

[Chandler]

Puts his watch in the bowl. Yeah. Okay. Well, anyway, let's get to the Mormon Wives. Yeah.

[Ben]

So, you know, back to Utah and swinging. If you had told me that I was going to be spending so much of my time thinking about swinging, not myself swinging, but just, like, about the swinging of it all, I wouldn't have believed you because I had no idea how much this was going to be a part of our culture. You know, it really is signs of the times, you know? Is that a recession indicator? Like the uptick and swinging?

[Chandler]

So true, Chandler. Oh, my gosh. Is this a recession indicator? Because we could not be more wrapped as a community with these Mormon wives. I've been on such a journey with this season. I felt a little fatigued by these people. I felt a little grossed out. And I left this season, I would say, wanting more, unfortunately, of the Mormon Wives.

[Ben]

Tell me when you started to actually enjoy it, because I was enjoying it from basically episode one, but you were like, kind of. It's kind of a slog for you. So please tell me everything about your journey with this.

[Chandler]

Well, I just think that a. If they should release two to three episodes at a time rather than all 10 at once, it's just a little exhausting to need to watch 10 episodes within the first week. It drops. I will say most people aren't watching that way, so there's that part of it. But I think that for me, it's the Dem Demi Demi, the Demi Taylor drama, and the Demi Jessie drama that really kicks it into high gear for me and made it way more juicy.

[Ben]

To watch, I think as well. After we had last season where Demi really shined and now like the arc has just changed.

[Chandler]

Well, yeah, I think she has become the season's villain, like unbeknownst to herself, and I think she is really not coming across on camera as she thought she would. Is never a good look to say that you. It's not a surprise that you're the fan favorite. It's like calling yourself pretty or calling yourself funny. People don't want to hear that. You know, it just. It's not a good look.

[Ben]

But she also at one point said, you know, my stepsons were coming home saying, people at school are saying your hot stepmom is a swinger. Skip the adjective there. It's like, it's just. It's not a good look.

[Chandler]

No, it's cocky and unlikable. Truly. It's not a good look. Before we get into Demi, though, and all of her tussles with the rest of the cast, I do want to talk about what she said about Jen, which I do think is interesting.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

So I listened to her on the Vial Files podcast. Did you hear this interview?

[Ben]

Probably, but please walk me through it. Okay.

[Chandler]

Basically what she said, and I do think this is interesting information that I didn't know is apparently Jen's husband made half a million doll flipping houses in the past couple years and Jen was not the breadwinner for their family. And she feels like Jen is kind of like the fakest and turns it on the most for the cameras. She says that she just can see Jen like blinking really slowly suddenly on purpose when they're on camera and just kind of coming, trying to come across as this innocent doe eyed woman, when in reality she says she's a lot more calculating and that she, you know, she kind of lied about Zach and where he got the money to gamble and being the breadwinner. And what Demi and Brett said on that podcast is that Zach is essentially just like falling on the sword and taking the bad name. Even though it's a lot of what a lot of the reasons that we don't like him seem to potentially be not true.

[Ben]

I don't buy this. I think that really cannot fake. Those text messages.

[Chandler]

True.

[Ben]

Those text messages from Vegas were So ugly, so disgusting. I don't think that anyone's so calculated that they're like, you're gonna say all this really mean, you know, honestly, unforgivable stuff, and it's just gonna look really good for us on camera. I think he made himself look bad all on his own, to be honest.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Ben]

Especially last season. And I think, you know, okay, maybe she turns it on for the cameras, but don't they all? And when you see her, see that she's pregnant and she is just like, that was one of the most raw moments. I talked about it. Like, it was one of the most raw moments I've ever seen. And so I don't know, maybe. Maybe she turns it on for the cameras. But I. I don't think that people are that. That she's that depraved where it's like, I'm going to, like, I. I am going to show my positive pregnancy test and then just have a full meltdown on camera just, you know, to make it my storyline. And then she stops filming. She literally stops filming. Cause she's so, you know, depressed and.

[Chandler]

She'S clearly not that thirsty if she stops filming. So I'm with you there. Also, I just am not sure how much we can trust Demi and the things that come out of her mouth.

[Lauren]

This episode of Popapologists is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah. When I'm planning a getaway, whether it's a long weekend with my husband or a getaway with my girlfriends, I always start with where we're staying. Because for me, the stay isn't just part of the experience, it is the experience. I always look for a truly stunning hotel or vacation rental with a few non negotiables, a gorgeous bathroom, a private terrace, and a view that makes you want to press pause on real life. I've also learned to filter for balcony and bathtub because sometimes a golden hour soak is the entire itinerary. Oh, and my husband, he pretends not to care until he finds those 800 thread count sheets. That's why I love booking.com if I can find my perfect stay on booking.com anyone can find exactly what you're booking for booking.com booking. Yeah. Book today on the site or in the app.

[Ben]

This episode is brought to you by masterclass because scrolling less and learning more feels really good. So I recently took Alice Waters class on the masterclass platform, and it was the exact reset I needed. Her approach to cooking is all about slowing down, choosing ingredients thoughtfully, and creating simple Beautiful meals. It made me rethink how I approach my own kitchen. And yes, I now romanticize trips to the farmer's market. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn from over 200 of the world's best anytime, anywhere. Whether it's food, home wellness, writing, or career growth, there's something for everyone. And it's only $10 a month, billed annually. You get unlimited access to every instructor, and the value is incredible. If you're ready to replace a little mindless scrolling with something meaningful, this is your sign. Our listeners always get great discounts on Masterclass of at least 15% off any annual [e-mail] popapologists. See Masterclass's latest deal at least 15% [e-mail] popapologist Another interesting point about this whole situation is that Demi is in her 30s. Jen is 24.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Ben]

I kind of just expect better behavior from women who are a little bit older and more seasoned. I think that they bullied Jen for sure in the season. And the way that it was, like, they go to that, like, little coffee date with Zach where they're about to, you know, where they basically leave being like, well, yeah, they're. We're all in agreement. Jen's a liar.

[Chandler]

Yeah. But it. Okay, but if she did actually lie about the source of funds for that gambling. I mean, I think two things. I think two things could be true at once. Right. Where Zach has been awful in many ways, but I think it could be possible that Jen also has been hyperbolic or Ben, you know, has not always been completely forthright about certain things and could potentially be a little bit performative for the camera.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Chandler]

I think that both could be true.

[Ben]

Both could be true. I mean, all of those girls are performative for the camera. They're the. It's the most performative cast I think I've ever seen.

[Chandler]

It's actually interesting because I forget who it was, but someone said, basically, the only person or one of the people who's the most authentic is Taylor, and that Taylor is just completely the exact same person on and off camera. And sometimes they said Taylor would show up to film and just have her hair, like, in a bun, not looking good at all. They're just like, do you want to put on any makeup? Like, do you want to put on, like, normal clothing? Do you want to be in pajamas for this?

[Ben]

I think Taylor actually gives, like, truly zero F cks.

[Chandler]

Right, Right. Which is why I think it is really, really upsetting to us as viewers and to us as Taylor Stans, which I think a lot of the viewers of Mormon Wives are, you know, and I think that's shocked us all that we would become Taylor Frankie Paul Stans. But it's upsetting that Demi would try to get her off the show because Taylor is really the rawest, gives them the most. I mean, Demi, for all we know, her relationship is so perfect with Brett, and they're so in love. And yes, Demi has shared some of her fertility challenges, but what Taylor exposes is a lot more Taylor. Also, Demi is 30 years old. She has a long time to figure that out. Taylor is showing some real rock bottom stuff.

[Ben]

Taylor is showing body cam footage. I'm sorry, like that. You can't. You can't argue with that. And I. And I. I think the other girls do a good job of really trying to bring. Bring vulnerability to the table. You know, Michaela talking about her autoimmune stuff. Macy talking about her, you know, her boyfriend who passed away tragically. And like Layla, I have a whole thing with Layla, but, you know, I'm gonna. We'll put a. Put a pin in that. But I think they. They do their best to bring their vulnerability to the table, but I think Taylor just honestly has a more chaotic life and she's comfortable sharing it all on camera. That makes her very interesting to watch. And I also think that she's. She's just honest. She's like, her family knows everything about her life. Her family knows how cringe or how. How low she's gone, and so she doesn't have anything to lose. I think by just being honest about everything, like, even when Miranda says, you know, we just. We just kissed, and Taylor's like, okay, no, we didn't. We did all this. Like, Taylor has nothing to lose. And I think that makes her. And so she's very forthright with the camera and with the audience. And I think that makes everyone just adore her as a reality star.

[Chandler]

Well, and also, Taylor has so many. I think she is at 5.4 million followers, and the rest of the Girls are at 2 million and under. I believe Demi is at 1:1.1 or something like that. And so Telor is obviously the most famous by a huge degree as well. So trying to get her off the show when she is literally the MVP is just so. I just find it to be so irritating. Also, I find it to be so fake because we just know that there's no way Demi is leaving mom talk that she's leaving the show.

[Ben]

There's just not a chance no, no. I'm like, girls, we all. Everyone needs that check. Everyone wants that check. Also, you don't see, you know, Jesse or Demi's mom showing up to a party to have a critical conversation. That is. Honestly, that was one of, like. That was one of the craziest things I think I've ever seen in reality tv. The way Leanne is.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Ben]

Leanne should be getting a direct deposit. First of all, if she's not, like, Leanne needs to be a paid cast member. She needs. We need to see Leanne, you know, emerging from the hot spring because, well.

[Chandler]

She certainly got her glow up. So I think something is. The wealth is potentially trickling upward from. From Taylor.

[Ben]

I just could not believe that she showed up at that party. Like, that was incredible.

[Chandler]

It was incredible. The one thing I will say, as I, like, get very worked up about how irritating I find to me, and maybe I don't think she's a good friend, and I don't like her character this season. I do feel like she is one of the most talented characters on the show or cast members. Right. Because she is bringing a lot of drama when you compare her to Miranda, who might as well not be there, at least to me, is ready to throw her hat in the ring. She is ready to potentially lose her spot on the show by, you know, saying that she's gonna leave if everyone doesn't kick Taylor out. Like, she's making the show interesting to watch.

[Ben]

I completely agree. I don't want her to go anywhere. I think she also does a good job of representing herself. I think she speaks well. She definitely has, like, a seasoned presence, and I think that, like, just helps her just, you know, come across as, like, a. As a more interesting person to watch on tv. I mean, you watch, like, Layla go on a date to Thanksgiving point, you know, and it's just, like, there's just. There's a. There's a. Layla is just obviously very young. There's an immaturity, I think, to some of the other women that I don't think is where is with within Demi, And I think that makes. I connect to her more because of that.

[Chandler]

Yes. Demi has a huge strength and presence that makes the show a lot stronger. What did you think about the entire drama with a, you know, Demi throwing shade at Jay Z Stiles? That's pretty low. It's pretty low. If it's your best friend's business.

[Ben]

I don't think they were best friends at that point.

[Chandler]

Well, they certainly had forged alliances.

[Ben]

They absolutely had. I mean, I Think all these women are kind of fake with each other. I don't. I think the only. The only real friendship I believe in is maybe Macy and Mikayla. All the other women are just like. It's all fake friendships, even if your.

[Chandler]

Friendship is not that strong. To throw someone's entire brand and business under the bus like that and to say on national television that many of the cast members feel that she's actually not good at hair. I mean, it sounds stupid, right? This drama sounds stupid. But no, that is her business. And it's very bad for her brand to have this idea out there that she's actually bad at hair.

[Ben]

Guys, she's like a millionaire. If she was actually bad at hair, we would know. She's clearly good at hair and she's built a successful business. And I think that. I think that's, to me, maybe coming from a place of jealousy.

[Chandler]

And that is such an astute point, because as we saw with her reaction to Macy saying that she is writing a book and she had a book deal, maybe that is what it is, is it's like any person who has. Has something that Demi does not have, she wants to put a little chink on that person's armor. And maybe that was the impetus for that comment. But I just. I found it regardless. Regardless of what the motivation was, I found it to be quite, quite evil.

[Ben]

And I think you wouldn't. You wouldn't say that to another cast member who you maybe don't fully trust. I think that. That it's pretty low to have admitted that to another cast member. It's not like she said it to, like, someone else, like someone random, you know, that's not affiliated with the show. Like, she knows that Taylor could potentially share this.

[Chandler]

Absolutely. And she knows that it could get on camera and look really bad for Jesse. I also heard some interesting things from, I don't know, some podcasts I was listening to with the cast and apparently. So apparently Brett and Demi were on a call with Hulu with negotiations, and Brett apparently said that unless the girls get X amount, that they're going to walk. And I guess Jesse signed onto the call late and didn't realize they were all had kind of like, joined as one to try to get more money. Um, and so Jesse said. She basically said, like, I'm not gonna walk. And that is like, the source where that's when Demi tried to get her off the show so that they could get more money.

[Ben]

That makes sense to me. That added context because it's clear that this isn't a huge deal between Jesse and Demi. Like, maybe they had a conversation after. They're like, well, by the way, Brett said this. Like, it sounds like that issue was kind of put to bed.

[Chandler]

It seemed like it was a little put to bed. But the one thing I will say is I feel like it's a very bad move to in any way try to get one of these cast members off the show and to also say that I should be paid more because I am. The season where I was the fan favorite like that again, is so it's.

[Ben]

It's just.

[Chandler]

It's pretty horrible.

[Ben]

That is where I think she shows immaturity.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And on this season, she has been trying to get Taylor off and Jesse off.

[Ben]

Yeah. I mean, it's just. It's a bad look, and I think it. I would like to see who Demi is truly friends with.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Ben]

More than just, like, alliances.

[Chandler]

Well, it seems like her. Her main relationship is the relationship she.

[Ben]

Has with Brett, and I guess we're gonna get the next season, you know, in the somewhat near future.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Apparently they've already filmed all 20 episodes. Hulu ordered 20 episodes, but we only got 10. I think it's kind of like a Meghan Markle situation where they already filmed everything and they're still, like, editing and finishing up the Fine. I don't know if it's going to be season two, part two, or season three. My guess is it's going to be season three. Do you know?

[Ben]

Yeah, probably season three. Lauren, tell me this. Who are your favorites coming out of this season?

[Chandler]

I mean, honestly, I still love watching Demi, and I love watching Taylor. I think they're excellent television. I think that Michaela and Macy serve as really nice palate cleansers. I'm not sure I'd be interested in an entire hour of them being good friends with each other, but I do feel like it's nice when we kind of on the heels of a really trashy conversation about swinging or about, you know, what actually went down when the mom talk people were getting together. It's nice when Mikayla and Macy are talking about being pregnant or, like, praying together, you know, at the. At the crash site. I feel like I like those scenes. They're. They're a little bit, like, fortifying.

[Ben]

I agree. I mean, even in the wake of, like, the awful pregnancy roulette game.

[Chandler]

Oh, God, awful.

[Ben]

Like, them in the room and, you know, telling each other that they're like, I'm pregnant, you know, like, revealing that to each other. I thought that was, like, very sweet. And yeah, I agree, they're great palette cleansers and I like both of them. But I think that the best TV comes from Taylor.

[Chandler]

The best tea comes from Taylor.

[Ben]

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[Chandler]

Oh, really?

[Ben]

Okay. Yes.

[Chandler]

Oh, wait, okay. You jumped on. You jumped on the bandwagon being annoyed with her.

[Ben]

Yes. This is what a source tells us. Megan wanted a global cover. She wanted to appear in the US And UK Vogue simultaneously. Like, she basically wanted to be on the COVID of Vogue, like, everywhere Vogue was going to be sold, which to me is like, I've never even heard of that. I don't think that's like, that happens for, like, the biggest stars. And so they, you know, I guess the source said nobody gets that, not even Beyonce.

[Chandler]

I believe they said the only person who ever got that was Adele in 2021 after some big moment.

[Ben]

Why Adele, too? It's like, I just feel like all the Vogues operate separately kind of. And like, that, that would be crazy.

[Chandler]

But, you know, Megan got to this point where she just thought, like, she was the biggest star. And, and honestly, the frenzy surrounding them was at such a fever pitch, especially right after they moved to Montecito. So I kind of understand how in her brain she thought she could demand that, but that's just not, that's not.

[Ben]

The way that works.

[Chandler]

Especially when. I'm sorry, but you literally were a B list actress five minutes ago. Like, your only calling card is who you got married to. That's it. And it's so contrary to the humble image Megan tries to kind of, you know, create for herself. If you'll remember at this time, she got the COVID of the Cut, or she Got the COVID of New York magazine. So this was apparently at the exact same time. Cause I read the article, and it's just funny because Megan apparently, like, starts off the article, and she's like, I'm not a model. She's, like, very sheepish about, like, the fact that they're doing a photo shoot. She's just like, I'm just a mom. So it's a little hilarious that we actually have sources at Vogue saying that she. No, at this time, she was demanding a global cover of Vogue.

[Ben]

And apparently, you know, when they denied this, she set up a personal zoom call with Anna Wintour to try and get her to reconsider. And I don't think Anna Wintour cops to demands. I actually think she, like, prides herself on how she does not cop to any celebrities. You know, she doesn't invite certain celebrities in the Met Gala on purpose.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, this is Vogue. This is Vogue. This is not US Weekly. This is not Vanity Fair, even. This is the most formidable, exclusive. Cool. Like, this is the fashion magazine. You kind of just get what they give you. And, you know, for me, that's been nothing. And that's what I've taken so far.

[Ben]

Absolutely. We've tried to set up multiple zoom.

[Chandler]

Calls with Anna and Tori. She just always isn't available.

[Ben]

Yeah. Anyway, I thought that was, like, that. That was just another unfortunate check mark in the annoying category for Megan.

[Chandler]

It's tricky because I feel like. I feel like as you and I have. As this podcast has grown out of the ether. Right. And as we've come into contact with people of different walks of life, higher, more rarefied walks of life than our own, it's just dicey because each of those people we talk to has this same story. Like, we were. I don't know, maybe you weren't there, but I was talking to someone recently who knows quite a few people who have worked with Meghan Markle, and I cannot say any more than that, but this. This person basically said they all just had the worst things to say about her. And I think the expression is, you know, when there's smoke, there's fire, and there is just constant. So much smoke for Megan.

[Ben]

Right, right. Okay, let's move on to, you know, another. Another Duchess of Salt Lake County, Brittany Bateman.

[Chandler]

Oh, yes. Okay. Can you lead us through this tale?

[Ben]

If you'll remember, she is the one of the newer housewives on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. She was, you know, having a dalliance with Jared Osmond. She's the one who she just had some amazing one liners from last season. But apparently she's in a lawsuit with her former mother in law over a hundred thousand dollars that she apparently owes her mother in law. This is just like so messy.

[Chandler]

It's just so Salt Lake City, right? Like the Salt Lake City, the Salt Lake City fringe. B list characters like the Monica Garcias and the Brittany Bateman's, they're always in like five figure lawsuits. Yeah, I guess six figure in this case. But they always just have some sort of lean, some sort of tax issue, some, some problem in the courts. And so this tracks.

[Ben]

So basically her mother in law claims that she loaned her a hundred thousand dollars. Britney never paid her back. But Britney is also in a lawsuit with her ex husband claiming that, you know, he mistreated her during their six and a half year marriage, that you know, she suffered severe emotional distress with their marriage and alleged that he demanded she have sex with him multiple times per day.

[Chandler]

Here's my thing with Brittany Bateman. I think that she needs to be protected at all costs. She's messy, she has a few lawsuits. She's singing through the airport on TikTok. She brought so much. The thing about Britney is when she's on screen and she's so cringy and she's talking about Jared and she has an announcement, it's never annoying. It's always funny.

[Ben]

It's always funny.

[Chandler]

It's always so fun to watch.

[Ben]

It's like a, kind of like a.

[Chandler]

Shannon Beador, but even more cartoonish in the best way. And so I just, I don't know, I, I hope Britney's finds justice against her ex. Any woman who I think would agree that being asked to have sex multiple times a day is traumatic. Um, okay. In other news, Jordan Hudson Chandler, Bill Belichick's much younger girlfriend, continues to fuel rumors that the couple is engaged by wearing a giant sparkler on her left ring finger yet again. So she was spotted at the Raleigh Durham Airport on Saturday as she waited to board a plane back to Boston. She was photographed on her phone with a large ring clearly visible. Bill Belichick also renamed his boat I+8 rings. Its original name was just 8 rings or I'm sorry, it's 1 +8 rings. An homage to Bill's eight Super bowl wins. So maybe now it's just one ring plus the eight rings. Like he has another ring that's really important to him and he's renamed his boat. I mean, wow.

[Ben]

I guess if a guy renames his boat after You.

[Chandler]

A source told the New York Times that Jordan also told at least one person that she is engaged. If you. I mean, of course she is listening. And you are the son or daughter of Bill Belichick. You need to resort.

[Ben]

You know what?

[Chandler]

Honestly, Tolstoy said it best. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Was that Tolstoy? Charles Dickens, who knows? Who cares? Desperate times call for desperate measures. Seek out some sort of, I don't know, capture on the dark web. Who can get rid of this woman for you. Because you do not want Jordan Hudson swooping in on your entire inheritance. Okay. I would be panicked if I was one of his kids. This is a nightmare.

[Ben]

I feel like the one day more now stuck in my head just at the age, like, for the French Revolution, like, it's time to rise up and take back what's yours.

[Chandler]

I'm sorry. This family should be marching in the streets against Jordan Hudson because I cannot tell you, I cannot tell you how wrong it will be if she just makes away basically with his fortune.

[Ben]

I mean, she's already got impressive. It will be. She already has family home, properties.

[Chandler]

I know. She already has all of her condo investments, her $9 million million dollars of investments. But if she. She makes out with his, like, basically entire fortune, that will just be truly, I mean, astonishing, impressive and devastating for those kids.

[Ben]

It just makes men everywhere look so bad.

[Chandler]

So bad. So bad, so bad. And it's. It's also giving elder abuse.

[Ben]

Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

[Chandler]

Okay. Dakota Johnson Chandler. This is news. You ready for this?

[Ben]

I'm so ready.

[Chandler]

Dakota Johnson struggled to pay rent after high school. This was revealed on a morning show with Hoda. I don't know which one she's on, but she was in an interview with Hoda, and she said that after not getting accepted into Juilliard and foregoing college to begin her acting career, her famous father, Don Johnson, cut her off financially. She says, I didn't get in and my dad cut me off because I didn't go to college. So I started auditioning. I think I was 19 when I did the Social Network. And then little jobs and stuff after that. That she said for a couple years, it was hard to make money. There are a few times when I go to the market and not have enough money in my bank account or not be able to pay rent, and I'd have to ask my parents for help. I'm very grateful that I had parents that could help me and did help me, but it certainly was not fun. It was fine. I didn't really Want to go to college. She talks about Juilliard, yada, yada, yada. I mean, why is this news that it's hard to pay rent once you graduate from high school, you move out of your parents house, it's like, yeah, that's how it works. You're broke, you're figuring it out.

[Ben]

Something that I think is interesting is that her dad did not want her to pursue acting. Like, her dad was like, don't do this. And I. Well, I found it to be kind of refreshing when, you know, actor, famous actor parents are like, I don't know if you want this life. And which actually brings me back to my Beyonce experience because Blue Ivy is like a part of the show. Right. And I kind of. It doesn't totally sit right with me that she is such a. A huge part of the show and that she's kind of being thrust into the spotlight in this big way so young.

[Chandler]

I feel like clearly though, Dakota was meant for stardom. Right? Like, her. Her talent is so impressive.

[Ben]

She didn't get into Juilliard.

[Chandler]

That's, That's. She's no Hannah Nealman.

[Ben]

Side note, I actually would like to hear about more celebrity or Nepo babies that didn't get it. Like, what schools they didn't get into. Like, I'm here for that.

[Chandler]

Yeah, that. That would be a good TikTok. Also. The thing I want to hear about, though, is like, girlfriend, if you can call your parents for money, then you're really like, it's just not that difficult, you know?

[Ben]

Right.

[Chandler]

Like, did mom and dad ever give you any money to help with rent when you moved out?

[Ben]

I mean, there were definitely times where I was a little desperate and I definitely called them for some money.

[Chandler]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Ben]

But it wasn't a thing that I could just like, count on. I mean, I didn't. I didn't abuse it. And I know there have been definitely times when they've said no.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I mean, and there, There were. There were so many times, especially what after they first cut me off, that I knew I couldn't borrow money from them, so I would only borrow money. I could only call Courtney and. But I, you know, it was like. It was times where it was like I was making transfers of $25 from my savings that probably had a hundred dollars in it to my checking to put gas in my car, you know, my. My checking that had no dollars in it. And then. Okay, well, I guess just a little $25 transfer.

[Chandler]

I just think, I mean, I, I have respect for Dakota Johnson, her beauty, her talent, yada, yada, yada. But it's like if you never had to work a shitty restaurant job because you could always call your parents if you didn't have enough acting jobs to pay the rent and get by. I don't know. I'm not. I am not. I'm not playing my little violin for you today. Like, for example, Chandler, Kris Jenner just went on a podcast called. It's called. Oh, my gosh, the title is so funny it has to come to me. It's called the Burnouts, okay? And it's these two girls, and like, yeah, we're in our 20s. We were roommates at Stanford, and they're interviewing Kris Jenner, and I look on their podcast, and I'm so confused because they have 37 reviews. How do they have Kris Jenner on their show? And also, their show is, like, so produced, right? They have, like, cards that say the Burnout. Like, they have more insignia and it's more, like, embellished than our show is times a million. And I'm just so confused.

[Ben]

They work harder than us, but I guess their name is the Burnout. So I don't know.

[Chandler]

No, Chandler, this is Bill Gates's daughter's new podcast with her roommate from Stanford.

[Ben]

Girl, don't tell me you're burnt out when your. Your dad is Bill gates.

[Chandler]

Like, you're 24.

[Ben]

Oh, that actually makes me pretty annoyed.

[Chandler]

That's where I'm just like, if you haven't actually had to live in the real world for a second of your life, I'm super jealous. But I also just don't have a ton of respect for the hustle. Like, she's doing this interview I was listening to on the show, and she's like, talking to one of her co founders at this, like, app she started.

[Ben]

I'm just like, oh, gosh, talk to me. When you're, you know, coming home from work at 3 or 4am after working on, you know, a new business pitch and advertising, and you have to put ice packs on your face, ice packs, you know, to sleep with because you don't have AC and you get ice burn.

[Chandler]

I mean, talk to me.

[Ben]

You know, when you've done that, talk to me.

[Chandler]

When you graduate from college, have literally no idea what you're going to do, you move back in with your parents, and you start working for your mom for 15 an hour at 27, organizing the video. Oh, there's a picture of me cleaning pool tile. And mom and dad would not. Obviously did not, would not. I never even asked for it. But, like, they would give us a nice place to rest our head, which is a. A very huge privilege. But there is not a single dollar going to us that we did not earn. So we'd be like, yeah, you need some money. Time to get to work. So there' photos of me at 27, like, you know, scrubbing the pool tile for 15 an hour.

[Ben]

I had to take babysitting jobs in between, like, graduating from college and starting my real job. Cause I had no money. I'd put all, you know, I'd spent all my money on my, like, deposit for my first apartment. It's just. Oh, the burnouts. Well, the podcast thinks it's oversaturated, and I think it's time for us to pack up and go back to the restaurant.

[Chandler]

That day might come. You never know. Not when we have Bill Gates's, you know, daughter to compete with now, who I guess can get Kris Jenner on as a guest. Must be nice. Must be nice, girl. Congrats. Wait, okay, one other thing. Should we talk about Claudia Ashrae giving birth?

[Ben]

I am so happy for her. She's a vision.

[Chandler]

Chandler.

[Ben]

I just.

[Chandler]

I could not be more impressed with the toast girls. I really cannot. Claudia Ashri, they do five days a week on their show. They also have a Patreon, which is like, other bonus content. She's giving birth and has multiple tiktoks up, like, in the hospital.

[Ben]

That's incredible.

[Chandler]

We can't do one of those tiktoks, let alone, let alone right before giving birth.

[Ben]

She has a gift.

[Chandler]

It would never happen.

[Ben]

She has a gift.

[Chandler]

She. They both have such a gift. I will say, of like, they deserve every cent that they make because I see how hard they work. Like, I don't think people understand that they are like Olympic level podcasters.

[Ben]

Oh, 100%.

[Chandler]

And I just. I think that those two are so talented and I'm so happy for Claudia. So anyway, by the way, we do not know them at all. We have never talked to them. There was no connection. But I just couldn't feel like more happy for them. So agreed and impressed by them. And I think with that, we will.

[Ben]

Be back on Friday with a mini. We love you guys.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Ben]

Thank you for listening. Thank you for, you know, being the, you know, wind beneath our wings as we do not have, you know, Bill Gates to support or bankroll this podcast. And yeah, we love you.

[Chandler]

Love you guys. Bye.

[Tony Brienne]

Now, y' all know there's always more to the story. And on the Tony Brienne TV podcast. We break it all the way down, whether it's viral moments currently shaking up on the Internet. Blake Lively has been acclaimed the American Dream Girl for quite some time now. And now it seems she's America's most hated pop culture phenomenon. Everyone's talking about or deep dives into stories that deserve much more attention. These black women are getting pregnant by people that we also consider to be lower than them. I'm here to give you the full picture, genuine insights and conversations mainstream media often overlooks. Some women are getting so many fillers and Botox injection to their face that they don't even realize how crazy they can potentially look. Here we explore different perspectives. To a lot of people, Kylie looks a lot older than she really is, is and above all, we speak the truth. That is not okay. And that should get you registered as a offender. You must check out the Tony Brienne TV podcast. You don't want to miss what's coming next.

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