Pop Apologists Episode 280: How Miley Cyrus Wrote Off Illicit Items ft. Nora Princiotti

Release Date: June 18, 2025
Host: Chandler and Lauren from PodcastOne
Guest: Nora Princiotti, Author and Staff Writer at The Ringer

Introduction

In Episode 280 of Pop Apologists, sisters Chandler and Lauren are joined by Nora Princiotti, an acclaimed author and staff writer at The Ringer. Nora discusses her latest book, "Hit Girls," which delves into the rise and cultural impact of female pop stars in the 2000s. The episode explores themes of authenticity in pop music, the evolution of fan relationships, and an exclusive interview with Miley Cyrus.

Exploring "Hit Girls" and Pop Culture Icons

[01:18] Nora Princiotti introduces her book, sharing excitement about analyzing iconic pop figures who shaped millennial childhoods. She remarks, “Avril Lavigne, Beyonce, Britney, Rihanna, Lady Gaga. There's just so much in here that I had forgotten.” The conversation quickly delves into how these artists not only dominated the charts but also altered the cultural landscape.

[03:42] Chandler highlights the significance of the women featured in the book: “The women in this book are the reason why we care about pop culture. They’ve held our attention for so long, and it's why we do what we do.”

Authenticity vs. Poptivism in Pop Music

The hosts and Nora engage in a deep discussion about authenticity in pop music, particularly contrasting it with poptivism.

[05:03] Lauren emphasizes the foundational role of female pop stars: “They paved the way. They are the reason we have artists like Taylor Swift now.”

[10:01] Chandler introduces the concept of poptivism, explaining, “Poptivism is the idea that the music industry should assess pop music by its own standards, not by the ideals of rock music.” He elaborates on how pop music often involves spectacle and fabrication, which shouldn't be deemed shallow compared to genres like rock.

Spotlight on Ashley Simpson

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Ashley Simpson and her impact on pop culture.

[05:36] Nora Princiotti shares her personal journey with Ashley Simpson: “At the beginning, we all thought, okay, this is Jessica's sister. She's not Jessica. She kind of seemed a little cringe, like Avril Tryhard wannabe.”

[08:19] Chandler critiques the industry's marketing strategies: “Avril was seen as authentic because she wasn't Britney Spears, but both were major label pop stars.” He discusses how the aggressive marketing led to public disillusionment when the truth about songwriting collaborations emerged.

[10:16] Chandler reflects on Ashley Simpson's SNL performance: “Her SNL performance was a watershed moment in how people think about pop stars. It sparked the debate about poptivism.”

Max Martin's Influence and Career Revival

The conversation shifts to producer Max Martin and his pivotal role in shaping pop music.

[39:15] Chandler explains how Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" revitalized Martin's career: “He was struggling to find work, and this song brought a new texture by blending rock elements into mainstream pop, marking his second act.”

[40:43] Chandler adds, “Max originally didn't want to give the song to Kelly Clarkson because he saw American Idol as corny, but her rendition proved his versatility and cemented his status as a top producer.”

Miley Cyrus: A Candid Conversation

A standout segment features an in-depth discussion about Miley Cyrus, including highlights from an exclusive interview.

[21:11] Nora Princiotti expresses excitement: “I just have to ask, when you interview an A-lister, how does it work?”

[21:35] Chandler recounts the unique nature of the interview: “When Miley entered our studio, it was unlike any other interview I've done. She was an open book and could discuss both her successes and her flaws candidly.”

Key insights from the interview include:

• Vulnerability and Openness: Miley Cyrus shared personal struggles, saying, “My marriage was kind of falling apart, and I was trying to save it with Liam.” (Timestamp: [25:07])

• Artistic Evolution: Chandler discusses Miley's transition from her "Hannah Montana" persona to a more mature artist, noting her spontaneity and readiness to move on: “She was just like, yeah, I wasn't trying to stand by the work, I was onto the next thing.” (Timestamp: [27:02])

• Legacy and Influence: The conversation touches on Miley's impact on pop culture and her ability to remain authentic despite public scrutiny.

The Role of American Idol in Shaping Pop Culture

The hosts examine the influence of American Idol on the music industry and artist-fan relationships.

[43:00] Nora Princioti initiates the discussion: “What impact do you feel American Idol had on our generation?”

[43:12] Chandler responds thoughtfully: “Kelly Clarkson proved that American Idol could create a genuine pop star, validating the show's impact despite many unsuccessful participants.”

The discussion highlights how the show fostered parasocial relationships, making artists like Taylor Swift feel relatable and accessible to fans.

Taylor Swift: Dominance and Fan Relationships

Taylor Swift’s influence is a recurring theme, particularly her relationship with fans and the evolution of her public persona.

[55:17] Chandler remarks on Taylor's mastery of fan relationships: “She has masterminded the degree of parasociality and pop star fan relationships.”

[55:43] Lauren adds, “We feel like if she just got in a room with us for 15 minutes, we'd all be best friends.”

The conversation touches on Taylor's strategic releases, her re-recordings of albums, and how her actions have reshaped the music industry's approach to artist rights.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Nora Princiotti urging listeners to purchase her book, "Hit Girls," and extends congratulations on her insightful analysis of female pop stars and their enduring impact on pop culture. Chandler and Lauren reflect on the depth and enjoyment of the conversation, highlighting the importance of understanding the narratives behind pop icons.

Notable Quotes

• Nora Princiotti [01:18]: “Avril Lavigne, Beyonce, Britney, Rihanna, Lady Gaga. There's just so much in here that I had forgotten.”

• Chandler [03:42]: “The women in this book are the reason why we care about pop culture. They’ve held our attention for so long, and it's why we do what we do.”

• Chandler [10:16]: “Her SNL performance was a watershed moment in how people think about pop stars. It sparked the debate about poptivism.”

• Chandler [25:07]: “My marriage was kind of falling apart, and I was trying to save it with Liam.”

• Chandler [43:12]: “Kelly Clarkson proved that American Idol could create a genuine pop star, validating the show's impact despite many unsuccessful participants.”

• Chandler [55:17]: “She has masterminded the degree of parasociality and pop star fan relationships.”

Final Thoughts

Episode 280 of Pop Apologists offers a comprehensive exploration of female pop stars' influence in the 2000s, the complexities of authenticity in pop music, and an exclusive look into Miley Cyrus's candid perspectives. With insightful discussions and memorable quotes, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the dynamics of pop culture and the artists who shape it.