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Head to Macy's.com or shop in store and get ready to fall in love with the look. This episode of Popapologist is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah. From vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S. booking.com has the ideal summer stay for absolutely anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please. Find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.com booking. Yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. Well, well, well, everybody, we' ready to record. Ready to sit before you with another episode of Pop Apologists. Today we're doing a deep dive and it's been a minute since we've done a deep dive, so I'm really excited. Yeah. Buckle in everyone, because today we are journeying through the lives, the careers, the love lives of one Zoe Kravitz and two Gracie Abrams. So you might think, why these two ladies? Why are we choosing them? You know, of all the people we could deep dive and I had the idea a couple weeks ago that we should do a little Nepo baby deep dive series. And these were two that stuck out. These were, you know, the two ladies. We were like, okay, they're having a moment. The two ladies, the two women, the two, the two girls, the two gals. Yeah, these were the two that we thought would be, you know, kind of interesting for people. Gracie Abrams is obviously rising star. You know, I guess some would say she is a star. And Zoe Kravitz is currently, you know, spotted walking all over London with Harry Styles. And I think I Think there's a lot, you know, a lot to get into with both of them. Yeah, I feel like, for me, I know who these people are, but I don't have a ton of knowledge of them. It's like all of a sudden, I'm hearing more and more and more about them. And I do like them, but I wanted to know more about them. Okay, good. Okay, well, let's start, because without further ado, we're going to be covering both of them in today's episode. And we're going to begin with Zoe Kravitz. Okay, everyone, so just settle in. And here we go. Zoe Kravitz was born Dec. 1, 1988, in Los Angeles to, you guessed it, rock musician Lenny Kravitz and the famous actress Lisa Bonet. Lenny Kravitz is primarily a famous musician, right? Yeah, he's a rock star. He had a run of Grammys in the 90s, and he's also become an actor and fashion icon. He starred in Hunger Games. He's also a bit of a Nepa baby himself. His Zoe's grandmother is actress Roxy Roker. She made television history on the Jeffersons playing one of the first interracial couples on television. Yeah. Something interesting about her is that she's actually, like. She was in an interracial marriage in real life. Interesting. And so I think when she auditioned or something, they, you know, said, like, you're so good at this, or, you know, whatever. And I think she. I heard Zoe tell this story, but I think she was like, well, I'm, you know, married to a white guy. Yeah. And. Yeah, so Lenny is a Nepo baby. He had Zoe. Are the Nepa baby, you know, the person we're talking about today. Do you know any Lenny Kravitz songs? Because I'm. I'm gonna sing a few for you. I. You know, I truly do not. I mean, you don't remember. I mean, I. To me, this is like classic. Mom's radio is playing. You know, we're in the car running four hours worth of errands after school, and it's. I wanna fly away. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that sort of rings a bell. Do you have another one that you can play? It might just be your voice, though. That's not really channel. You know, I have been known to do a Lenny Kravitz cover in my day. No, I've actually. I didn't even rehearse that. I'm gonna play another one for you, though, really quick. Okay. Well, this is. Oh, this song. Yeah, I Wanna fly? Yeah. That's literally what I just say. Yeah. Is that it? Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, that's literally. I don't think your voice hit the right notes for. For my brain to compute. What song was being. Wow. He literally released an album this year. Oh. He still love it. Good for him. And. Okay, so as I was researching, I did know I did find an interesting fact about Lenny Kravitz. Please do share. He has been a celibate for the past eight years as a spiritual practice. He's no longer dating women. Does celibate mean that you're not having sex? Correct. That is impressive. Isn't that because he's super hot? And I. There's an Architectural Digest feature of his home in New Zealand, I believe. And I think that was when I really got a window into just what. And what a kind of, like, other galaxy Zoe Kravitz must have been raised in. Right. Because it's just the most incredible home. Yeah. He himself is quite attractive. And you've said that now twice. Regardless, I just. Why did I bring that up? I don't remember. You're kind of lost in a daze now. I feel like I just am impressed that he. He's such a spiritual man that we know with all of, you know, probably all of the women he could take to his. And he refuses to. Well, I think we would be remiss if we didn't just quickly comment on his physique. Okay, now we're gonna talk about. He is like, a big exercise guy. No, he's. He's got an incredible body. And I think there was one video of him at Equinox in New York. I'm just gonna find it momentarily. You know, it's like we. In order to talk about Zoe, we have to talk about Lenny and his physique. Yeah. And we'll talk about Lisa. I mean, talk about top, top shelf genetics, right? Oh, yeah. Here we go. Like, I've actually been to the Equinox. Oh, wow. Yeah. This is very impressive. I know. Anyway, everybody, he's very hot. He's extremely attractive. He wears a large scarf a lot of the time. And it does something for me, you know, now that we've talked about his physique and given it proper respect, I think we can talk about Lisa Bonet. Yes. So Lisa Bonet, Zoe's mother, is best known for playing Denise Huxtable on the Cosby Show. A reflection of Lisa Bonet's own personality, Denise was an 80s icon of bohemian individuality and style. Lisa is Absolutely breathtaking. The genetics here are pristine. Indeed. God's favorite, if you will. But sadly, you know, these two, they didn't last very long. Yeah. And they actually divorced when Zoe was 5 years old. And there's a quote here, and I think it's. I think we should play it where Lenny is talking about their relationship, their uncoupling, their conscious uncoupling. You gotta keep moving forward and upward. Zoe's mom and I were incredibly and deeply in love. It was a magical, magical relationship and a magical time in my life. She really helped to bring out the best in me and inspired me. It all really started when I got married and I fell in love with my wife, and she is like the female version of me. We're almost like twins. And I think I saw myself in her. And for the first time, I really got a clear look at myself through that. We were very young, and it was wonderful. And we had Zoe, which is. I see now what it was all about. It was really all about bringing this beautiful child to this planet and also sharing the love that we had. I mean, he's got a quite the voice. I think that both Lenny and Lisa are very arresting individuals. Very spiritual, very bohemian, very in touch. Yes. And in spite of that, though, they couldn't keep it together. Yeah. You know, so Zoe's upbringing involved these kind of two contrasting environments. Obviously, she lived with her mom most of the time, but she would obviously visit her dad. And, you know, she lived in Topanga Canyon with her mom. It was this secluded, nature focused, creatively nurturing home with Lisa Bonet. And then when she would visit her dad, it was like right in the. The heart of being a rock star, you know, living in Miami. Very different. Okay. And it's interesting to note that as, you know, the families kind of shifted and evolved. Eventually. Jason Momoa was her stepdad. They didn't stay together, and she has two half siblings. Right. So I want to play a little clip from her on Armchair Expert where she's talking about the difference between growing up with her mom and what it was like when she would go visit her dad. Yeah, we lived. You know, we lived in Topanga. We lived far away from everything. And that was like, a different part of her life that she kind of didn't bring with her. And my dad at that same time was the biggest he ever was. You know, Fly Away came out and American Woman, all that stuff. He was on the radio. I lived with my mom, and he would go on tour and he would come into town, which Was really exciting for me. And he'd come pick me up and I was really excited just because my dad, who I never see, was in town, you know, and he wasn't subtle. You know, he would come in like a. He had a viper. He had like a sports car, leather pants and. A viper. Yeah, a viper, leather pants and like a netted shirt. Like with a literal boa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but he would come pick me up and look like that. But then also. So people would get wind that he was there. And I remember one day going to the parking lot to get picked up by my father and the whole school was there, and it was so embarrassing. Anyway, pretty crazy. It's so funny because obviously Lenny Kravitz is so cool, but as a kid, it's like, you don't want your parents seeming weird or outlandish. Yeah, but it's very, very, very unique childhood. So Zoe saw her dad a few times a year. And shortly after her parents broke up. This is according to an Esquire article about her life. Lenny's career exploded, and the decade that followed was the busiest, craziest, stret. Professional life. Zoe says it was this whirlwind of a completely different universe. He was living loudly and without much restraint. It was intoxicating. Then I would go home to this really quiet, really simple life. So that got harder, as did living under Lisa's stricter roof. When Kravitz was 11, she relocated to Miami to be with her father. So Zoe says, I think it was very hurtful that I moved away from her to be with my dad. And my dad wasn't even there. And now she says that she wished she'd stayed. Quote, I just wish I'd been able to appreciate what she's doing for me. She was so focused on preserving my innocence, my creativity, because she knew what the world is that you don't get that back. Yeah. So it's like she had this really, really simple lifestyle with Lisa Bonet. No television. Like she, you know, not much. It seems like not much stimulation. Yeah, it's a really peaceful life. And then you contrast that with Lenny Kravitz's rock star life, and that's gonna be a siren song to a kid who might be a little bored, you know, in Topanga canyon to an 11 year old. I'm gonna play another quote from the Armchair Expert, okay. Where she's talking about this. It was me and my mom in Topanga, in the middle of nowhere. I'm not allowed to eat cheese. I'm not allowed to eat sugar. I'm not allowed to watch tv, you know, and then there's my dad and I go to see him for a couple days and there's like fucking TVs in every room and there's Pop Tarts and there's people everywhere all the time. And it's just like these two opposite worlds. And as a kid, you're just like that one. It's so funny because looking back, I'm like, thank God for the time I did have with my mother. Because that's the experience that makes you kind of, you know, I think a deeper person and an artist and connected to each other. So I think it is pretty interesting that they let her decide, you know, that it was like, okay, if you want to go live with your dad, you can go live with your dad. I mean, like thinking about Arnie, who's 11, right. Just making that type of call. So after relocating to Miami, Zoe attended the Miami Country Day School. And I guess she ended up convincing Lenny to move to New York because she transferred to New York's Rudolph Steiner School in Manhattan, which was a progressive arts focused private academy. And I. What I think is that that school was a little bit closer to her schooling in Topanga or in la, and so she kind of like missed that type of school. Interesting. After moving to Miami, something interesting as well is that I guess she struggled with an eating disorder. And I didn't know this. Yes. So this is a quote from around that time. She says, I didn't like my new school. I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. And I was surrounded by an enormous amount of beauty and posturing. I was a chunky, perfectly normal looking 15 year old, but I had this remarkably beautiful, skinny mother and a father who was dating a supermodel. And I felt short and ungainly. Kravitz became bulimic and was able to hide her condition from her parents for a long time as she moved to New York shortly after developing the disorder. When they did eventually find out, she was forced to enroll in therapy. Thankfully, she's okay now. But as she says, I'm very vigilant. It's a disease and I never let myself forget that. That's so crazy because you look at, you look at someone like Zoe Kravitz. Yeah. Who just seems like everything's always been easy and cool and it's like, oh my gosh. She had struggles that so many people have gone through and thoughts about like, my dad's dating a supermodel. My Mom. Lisa Bonet, one of the most beautiful women to ever exist. You look at someone like Zoe Kravitz and you think she's never probably had a day lacking confidence in her life. Yes, but I think that truly, I think, honestly, a. Some of the most beautiful women are the most insecure. And all women struggle with these things. So even. Even ones we think have no reason to. Right. So she began studying that year at the Acting conservatory under Scott McCrea at the State University of New York at Purchase. All of those words are crazy to me. I don't know what that means. But she, you know, was studying acting and she left college after a year and moved to Brooklyn, New York to start working in films. So she began, you know, the Nepo Baby course. Yes. So while living in Brooklyn, she met producer Jimmy. Gianna Polus. Gianna Paulus. I don't know, it looks like some type of Greek last name. Jimmy G. And they created the R B electro pop duo Lola Wolf. The band is named after Kravitz's half sibling, Lola and Nicoa Wolf, children of her mother, Lisa Bonet, and stepfather Jason Momoa. So, Chant. Do you know any Lola Wolf songs? Sing it for me. Well, I was thinking you could play some. Should we play a little. Let's play a little lol. Let's rock out for a second. Let's do it. Or what is. It's R B, so let's groove. I don't know. You're sounding. Well, I guess I do. I have a song saved. What? Would you take me to the west side? Would that be all right? Cuz it's. I could stare out your window. Anyway, that's Lola Wolf for everyone. That is Lola Wolf for you. This month is a big month for us Clean, Simple Eats fans because we've got several new clear protein flavors that absolutely slap. You already know that. I love the frosted lemonade clear protein soda. And now they've added cherry lime and grape to the lineup. Both of these flavors completely blew me out of the water, everybody. In fact, I think cherry lime might even be my new favorite. Okay. Each can has only 90 calories and 20 grams of whey protein, which is unbeatable. I love taking them with me when I have to run out the door in the morning to go record and want to make sure I hit all my protein goals for the day. Lauren loves one in the afternoon to beat the midday slump. They're just perfect around the clock. 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I never have to worry about a hangover, which basically now feels inevitable every time I drink. Also, I can't even tell you the amount of people I've recommended Early Bird CBD to who have absolutely fallen in love with it. Last month a good friend of mine was having trouble sleeping. I told her about Early Bird and it just worked wonders for her. If you know me, you know I cannot say enough good things about Early Bird. And my pro tip if you haven't tried them, is to start with about a half of a gummy a half an hour before you go to bed and just see how you feel. I love the watermelon and strawberry flavors. Those are top tier in my opinion. For 20 off your first purchase, use code popapologists@early birdcbd.com that's pop apologists for 20% off your first purchase. So she hit the silver screen for the first time in roles for the 2007 movies no Reservations and the Brave One. She continued proving herself beyond her last name with indie projects like It's Kind of a Funny Story and Yelling to the Sky. So then her films got a little bit bigger. She was in X Men and then the Divergent films. That's kind of, I think when I first started to see her in movies, I don't remember her from any of those other ones. And then in 20 saw X Men. I didn't see X Men, but I saw the Divergent ones. Oh, okay. I don't know why I'm getting fact checked right now. But then in 2015 she was in Mad Max Fury Road, which is one of like the biggest films of that decade. And her breakout role, which is when she was really introduced into my life because I was not watching X Men, was in the 2017 hit HBO show Big Little Lies playing Bonnie Carlson. What began as a small supporting part became one of the series most emotionally pivotal arcs. I mean, that show is so good. I want to go back to 2017, you know, and I. You know what? I would honestly sacrifice the life I have now to just go back to 2017 and watch Big Little Lies for the first time and to hear Renata say, I will not not be rich just for the first time. What was the song? What was the intro song? Because I kind of want to play that really quick. Let's play it. Let's get every. Let's throw it back for everyone. You only get so many good TV shows in your lifetime, and this really was one of them. So true. I honestly want to rewatch. I know. We. We should. We should. Oh, it's so good. I just need a little bit more. Okay. No, I think we should move on from the deep. No. Five more seconds. Driving. Anyway, it's so good. She was amazing in this, and obviously, I won't spoil anything, but she has a big role. Yes, she absolutely does. In recent years, we all remember her as Catwoman in Batman. In this role, she followed in the footsteps of Michelle Pfeiffer, Halle Berry, and Anne Hathaway. Critics praised her performance as the film's emotional anchor. The film grossed 770 million worldwide, and Time magazine included her on the top 100 most influential list of people in 2022. Yeah, this was a super big role. Like, Big Little Lies was a TV show, which was. Which was big. Right. But this was a huge film. This was like a legacy film. Yeah. Like you said, she's following in the footsteps of these amazing stars, and she did a great job. Did you see this one with Robert Pattinson? I didn't see this one. I tend to not really watch the comic book movies. You know what? And it shows. And every day on this podcast, I carry that burden. Do you want to play this clip of her talking about her experience playing Catwoman and kind of how she felt about it? I would love to. Great. It's wild. It's still. It's still wild. You know, it's one of those things that you never. I never even considered could happen. And it's rare to be a part of a film where the making of the film is just as intense as the coming out of the film. So I'm still Kind of in disbelief. So clearly, you know, she's humble. I will say. Like, I don't know. I feel like those questions are always a little bit bullshit, because it's like, you know, how did you feel taking on this role? And it's always like, I was so honored. And like, she says, I could never have imagined I would play this role. And what are they supposed to say? Oh, this felt completely right to me. I mean, who are my mom and, like, who are my mom and my dad? The best part was when the Wire, you know, hit my. No, you're right. Those questions are kind of bs, but at least it gives her the veneer of being relatable and having imposter syndrome, which we all can relate to, even if it is not accurate or false. 100%. She also. She's. She's great in interviews, by the way, and in preparing for this. I watched her in a couple of different ones, and I think she's got a great, great presence. But she didn't stay, you know, just in front of the camera. She actually moved behind it. Okay. Which I will say is very impressive, especially because, like, she's still so young. And I feel like a lot of times actors do that as they get a little bit older. How old do you think she is? 35. I mean, she's 36, so she's not like. She is young, I guess I feel like, yeah, it is. It's obviously young, but I thought she was a lot younger. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't realize that she was, like, in her 30s. Yeah, I thought maybe she was like. Yeah, I didn't really know how old she was. Gotcha. So, yeah, so she, alongside Channing Tatum, directed Blink Twice. And the thriller was originally titled Island, Just Everyone Knows, and it explored themes of gender, privilege, and power. I never saw it. Did you see it? I did see Blink Twice. Oh, you did? You like? No, I didn't see it. Was it good? So I'm gonna carry the weight of that on this. On this episode. Yeah, you will. I will say she did not direct it alongside Channing. She didn't direct it at all. But she directed. Oh, I think for some reason, I thought they directed it together. No, sorry. Excuse me. She was the director. She didn't need a man to help her, so. Correct. And it was originally supposed to be called Pussy Island. That's what I just said. Okay, well, apologies. I'm re. Reiterating for. For anyone else who was maybe dozing. If you missed it, everyone, Pussy island is what the original name was going to be anyway. It's basically a movie about like, not Epstein island, but kind of like what happens at Hollywood parties where it's like a Diddy movie essentially. Really? You didn't know this? I think. I thought it was like a horror movie. I didn't know that it was like, it has a horror element, but the entire concept is like this really rich billionaire, like celebrity billionaire. He takes girls to his, like island and drugs them with his friends. And there's a. There's like a horror aspect to it, but that's. No, it's fully like a Diddy Epstein Wow film. Yeah, it's really graphic. It's really intense. It's very dark. And I find it extremely impressive that she wanted to take on such a meaty, you know. Yeah. Such meaty material. I think if I was going to. If I was an actress and I wanted to direct would never happen. Yeah, I think I would do like the Summer I Turn Pretty or something. You know, I think that's kind of like where I'm. That's my best at my wheelhouse. I would love to do a Ralph Lauren ad featuring myself on a horse. Let's make that dream happen for you. Ralph Lauren Polar. Ralph Lauren Ralph. If you're listening, call me. Call her. But, you know, speaking of fashion. Wait, wait. Before we get there. What I just want to say, it received positive reviews and doubled its 20 million dollar budget at the box office, which is impressive given the. The nature of the content. Totally, totally. So it was a success. But yes, speaking of fashion, you know what else I think about when I think about Blink Twice? What? I think about the fact that Taylor Swift promoted it. She didn't promote. It Ends with Us. Yeah, well, that's why. Because It Ends With Us is like the most corny movie. Such crap. And Blink Twice actually was a powerful film, so. Well, I think you're right. So back to Zoe. Though away from Taylor, Zoe also became a muse for Saint Laurent, serving as one of the house's key ambassadors since. Since 2016. The partnership expanded to YSL Beauty the same year, where she was named Amuse and then later launched her own lipstick collection, which I kind of want to check out. Yeah. So this kind of all solidified her reputation as a fashion and culture icon. Yeah, she's a cool girl. She's a cool girl. She's an it girl. There's no getting around it. I would want, if I had a clothing line, I would want to, you know, like, have her model. Absolutely. Do you want to play this clip where she talks a little bit about partying in the London scene for ysl. Absolutely. It's a clip for YSL beauty, and I think that it does shows her cool girl personality really well. And I think that also, you know, you kind of. You'll get an idea of what her life is like when she's partying with her friends, which is what we're about to get into her Hollywood circle. London, go very hard. You are allowed to get as wild and weird as you want to get. A favorite beauty look for a party. Either a red lip or, like, a strong cat eye. I like to put on music and kind of zone out. Sipping on some whiskey and putting on makeup. It's fun. Very cool girl sipping on some whiskey while she puts on her makeup. You can just get creative and find the tone that works with your skin or your outfit. I think makeup is art. It's an art form. Shadow puppets. I was bored knowing how to do shout. Well, good, good. I'm glad you get the vibe. It's a very artful video. It's a little bit less, like, hearty journalism, and it's a little bit more, you know, mood, which we love from ysl, which we love from ysl and we love from Vogue. Anyway, moving on from her fashion endeavors, Zoe is well connected in Hollywood, obviously because of her, you know, Nepo origins, but just because she's got a lot of friends. Yeah. You know what I think about? What? Just as we are about to get into this, because she's friends with a lot of celebrity children and people with crazy careers. Like, it's like, when we want to get together with our friends, it's like, okay, here's the Airbnb. It's gonna be, like, 200 bucks each. Like, is this gonna work? You know, and then you think about, like, Zoe Kravitz and. And, like, her friends, and it's like, okay, who? Let's go to their mansion, fly on their plane. You know, like, it's just, like, such a different world completely. And it honestly sounds really fun. Sounds incredible. Yeah. So her inner circle is stacked with actors, musicians, and models who mirror her cool, slightly aloof aesthetic. So we're talking about the likes of Cara Delevingne, you know, Taylor Swift, which, you know, definitely. Definitely very famous. I wouldn't say she's like, the cool girl, the ultimate cool girl, but she could be if she. She wanted to be. If she wanted to be Rihanna, Miley Cyrus. I mean. Yeah, she's kind of friends with a lot of people. Yeah. She's super well connected. She's friends with a lot of the it girls, and. And obviously, as Shan said, she's very good friends with Taylor Swift. So much so that Taylor lent her her home during the pandemic. And you know what else I heard? What, they quarantined together. Well, yeah, both during the pandemic and during the wildfires. Yeah. So there's a famous incident that happened in Taylor's house when the California wildfires were going on. Lisa Bonet and Zoe were crashing at Taylor's pad, and it's this really beautiful 1930s estate. And of course, Lisa Bonet brought her snake. It's like, on any other woman but Lisa Bonet. It's like, who's the snake lady with? Lisa Bonet's like, that's sexy. Yeah. And it's like, of course she had to have her. Oh, she's gonna leave her snake behind in the wildfire. Absolutely not. Yeah. And so anyway, the snake got loose in Taylor's bathroom, and they were forced to basically rip apart Taylor's, like, historic home, historic bathroom in order to see. Save this snake and not have it get basically get loose within the house, which I've never thought about this, but it's kind of fitting because, like, snakes are kind of a part of Taylor's, like, you know, it's true. What. What would be the word? Her? I mean, it's identity. Yeah. Her imagery. Yeah. And I'm happy. Snakes also are a new beginning. They represent a new beginning. Did you know that? Amazing. I love your. Your psychic powers. You've got psychic peace. It's like the year of the snake. I believe that's. Yeah, that's like, within, like. Like Chinese New Year. Well, no, it's not Chinese New Year. I believe, like, I don't. It's not ever. And now we're getting into. Getting out. We're out of our depth here. I just know that snakes symbolize new beginnings. China. I think a lot of things symbolize new beginnings. I think too many things are symbolizing new beginnings in China. I believe it's like a different animal per year. Yeah, of course. I knew that. Well, you said, like, Chinese New Year. Well, yeah, but, like, because there's a. It's a new year. Like the year of the rat. You're the pig. Yeah, exactly. Let's move on, you guys. I want to talk about Zoe's dating history because so I think the reason why. I wasn't sure, like, where she fit in age wise with everybody, like, I don't know if she was like, Taylor's age or like Gracie's age is because she's kind of dated. She dated a lot of guys. She dated a lot of guys. And I actually think it's. It's quite shocking. I have a TikTok that I haven't played for you. Okay. That goes through some of the people that she's dated. I mean, of course she has, though. Look at her like. No, I know. It's like. I know. I think one of my favorite memes too, if you'll scroll, Lauren. It's. It's a picture of Zoe and about six of her boyfriends. And it says, this is the greed they talk about in the Bible. That's incredible. So before I play the TikTok, I think we should go through every guy that she's dated. Because what I realized is that there's, like, some people missing from this list. Okay. So she started off by dating Ben Foster, who I will say is all I know him as. Is the blonde guy that Robin Wright was engaged to. Yes. Okay. Like, kind of crazy. This was like an early romance, so. Yes. And this was 2007. Then she dated Ezra Miller. He's kind of a gross guy. I think he's had some, like, essay accusations. And then she dated Penn Badgley. Okay. And I don't know if you remember this romance at all. I don't remember this romance, but I will say that it's. I think Penn remembers it all too well. Yeah. Penn says, you know, he described their romance as real, true, earth shattering love. And they lived together in Brooklyn. And one of the tick tocks I saw said, like, they were just like the quintessential cool, like, Brooklyn couple, you know? And anyway, I'm gonna find a picture for you. Like, there's all. Just all these photos of them, and they're just kind of grungy, but they're just cute. I mean, I just think he's so hot. To me, he's super, super, super cute. You know what I like about Penn Badgley? What? Tell me. Oh, my gosh, all these photos are so cute. We're gonna put. We're gonna put these up on the screen. Yeah, I feel like. Did you have this dress? Why do I feel like you had this red dress? I might. I might have. But no one listening will know we're talking. Yeah, that's true. Or Kira, if I had that red. Oh, my gosh. There's a photo of, like, her in a beanie and a big scarf and he's like, in a beanie it's just. It's perfect. I'm pretty sure Penn Badgley is like a very, like, good family man now. I believe that. Look it up. Look at his. Look up his. Look up whether or not he's a good family. Let's verify this. He's just not. I don't think he's an eternal boy. Oh, I don't think so either. I don't think so either. I mean, isn't he. He's like. I think he's married to somebody. He's married someone and I think they have like four kids. I agree. I agree. So we love that. I mean, I guess we do have some marriage and family values on this podcast. We absolutely do. Everyone, picture this. It's Saturday morning and I've got friends coming over for a cozy brunch. The table is set, the candles are lit, everything looks perfect. 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Okay, confession time. My favorite part of the day isn't lunch. It isn't coffee time. It's when I finally crawl into bed at the end of a long day. I will literally be at dinner with friends thinking about the moment I can truly tuck myself into a gorgeous slumber. And let me tell you, my bed has leveled up thanks to to Cozy Earth. Their bamboo sheets are temperature regulating. Made from viscose from bamboo. And they somehow keep you cool all night. It's like sleeping in that perfect hotel bed. But every single night at home. And don't even get me started on the bubble cuddle blanket. So cozy. Here's the kicker. Cozy Earth gives you a 100 night sleep trial. If you don't love it, send it back. Plus they back it up with a 10 year warranty. Because once you feel this kind of comfort, you'll want it to last. I just have to say the Cozier sheets are a phenomenon in my household. And they are now in my mom's household and Courtney's household. They truly are divine. Like, they are very, very good, everyone. So do yourself a favor. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code pop for 40 off. And if you get a post purchase survey, let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Because honestly, your bed shouldn't be where you sleep. It should be your happy place. Cozy Earth makes that possible. Okay, so she dated Pen. Then she dated. Then she dated Michael Fassbender. Okay, then she dated Drake a little bit. I love, like, what she runs the gamut and who she's interested in, which I appreciate. So then the next name on this list is Twin Shadow. Yes. I don't know who Twin Shadow is. I looked it up. This is a Dominican American musician. Okay, great. And all we have here is that it was a romantic and creative partnership. Yes. Then kind of like she settles down and she marries a guy named Carl Glessman, who I had no idea who he was. So let me walk you through this marriage. Walk me through it. So Zoe and Carl First Connected in 2016. They're introduced by mutual friends at a bar. And Zoe told British Vogue that she wanted to meet someone. Not to get serious. I think I just wanted to get laid. She said. Yeah. I think she even said in an interview that I saw that, like, her friend just brought him, was like, this is a guy you can hook up with. Exactly. And she says she sensed in that moment that it was a bit of a misread. And I instantly felt something, she said. Then he turned around and he started talking to the blonde girl next to him. And I was like, wait, what? But apparently he just said he was nervous. Over time, their relationship deepened. They kept things private. But Zoe revealed that they had been engaged. So late in 2018, she revealed that they had been engaged since February. She's told. She told Rolling Stone. Oh, yeah, I'm engaged. I haven't told anyone yet. I mean, I haven't told the world. I wanted to keep it private. The proposal itself became something that they both remember fondly. Originally planned to be in Paris, it ended up happening simply in their living room. She says he popped the question in their living room after a plan to Surprise her in Paris in didn't pan out. Zoe described the moment with warmth and humor. She was in sweatpants, and his heart was apparently beating really fast. And she said, baby, are you okay? But her assessment afterward was he nailed it. And I love that it wasn't this elaborate plan in Paris. It was at home at sweatpants. In sweatpants. Can I digress a little bit about someone else? Like, what? Yeah, please. Just really quick. So, you know, Sophia Franklin just got engaged. And it's just kind of cute because it's very similar. So her fiance proposed, basically. They got room service and he proposed, like at a hotel and in Europe, like, over breakfast. Yeah. But she said, I need you to redo this with, like, my hair and makeup done and an outfit and a photographer and my nails done. And. And she also just, like, thought he was joking because she, like, didn't believe he would do it, like, in like, a moment like that. She's actually, like, super funny. It's really sweet. So anyway, I thought that was very hilarious. So I also just want to show you. So they got married at Lenny Kravitz's house, and Vogue cover the wedding. And it's. It's. All these pictures are really. Was like, stunning. It was during COVID so it's a smaller grant. Smaller. It was a smaller guest list. But she wore, like, this really, like, sweet dress. And I don't know, all the photos are just like. It's very cool. It's just like in this stunning Paris apartment. I don't know, it's kind of like low key, but fancy. Yeah, it was a very real, very beautiful wedding. Lots of A listers were there. But eventually, you know, this relationship did not work out. I mean, at one point she said, like, just how safe she felt with him, how he was the kindest person that she knew, and she felt like she had known him her entire life. I think that Zoe kind of ultimately, even though she really loved him, she didn't want to lead a traditional life. Yeah. And I think that that was what she was wrestling with. And they were together for a total of five years, but they broke up two years into their marriage when she was 32, which I just feel like, you know what, you're 32 years old. If that is calling to you, that's. That's not the worst thing in the world. It doesn't matter that you've had this big wedding. It's like in the scope of things, you have to do what you feel called to do and what's right for You. And so unfortunately for Carl, Zoe and he did not, you know, live happily ever after. Yes. They got a divorce, and then she started dating Channing Tatum, which is kind of the relationship that I remember the most. They fell in love while making Blink Twice. Yeah. Which is interesting. And they were really cute. I mean, do you remember all of the Taylor Swift dinners that the two of them were at? You. And do you remember all the Pat photos of Zoe and Channing at the beginning? Yes. Very, very hot couple. Yes, especially at the beginning. And they got engaged. They got engaged in 2023, but they sadly split in 2024. Yeah. So. So this is something that she said about Channing when they were first getting together. She said, I felt, even from afar before I knew him, that he was a feminist and that he wasn't afraid of exploring that darkness. Talking about the films, the film's themes, because he's. Because he knows he's not that. That's why I was drawn to him and wanted to meet him on set. Relationship deepened, and Channing what really was a supportive partner. Eventually, though, the relationship does break down. I do think that Channing's very long divorce with Jenna Dwan. Yeah, I think potentially played a role in this. It was a six year divorce. A lot of that time was spent fighting over his earnings and Magic Mike. And I think that it's possible, you know, that they just grew apart and it just didn't work out. Yeah, it just wasn't right. And something I love about Zoe is that she kind of just continues to date hot guys. Yeah. And this next guy is not super hot to me, and he's not actually on this list. But she dated Noah Centineo. Who is that? He was, like, in this movie called Tell the Boys I've Loved Before. I think. Yeah, he's kind of embarrassing. Okay. He's kind of like a Disney. I would say he's kind of like a Disney star. But, yeah, he just kind of gives, like, gummy person a little bit. But they were like, they were hooking up. And then there were rumors about her and Austin Butler. Which brings me to the video I wanted to play for you. Okay. Please play. Can I play this video? The video that I was talking about with Austin Butler? Please play. You were recently spotted dancing at a Bad Bunny concert in Puerto Rico. Yeah. You revealed that you were on an edible during the concert. Yeah. Who gave you the edible? Can I say Austin? Yes. Zoe. Yes. We brought you here today to take a lie detector test. This is Lou, our polygraph operator. Hi. Lou. Lou, how you doing? It's a pleasure to meet you. Lie. What? Lie. What do you mean? I've seen. Big fan of Lou. You just met Lou. I've seen Lou do this a number of times. Okay, fine. He's charming. He's handsome. Look at him. Look at him. It's working. Oh, my God. One of you will be her hooked up to the machine, while the other will ask the questions, and then you'll switch. Who wants to be in the hot seat first? I think I should do it. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. No, go for it. You want to go first? No, I think you should go first. Okay, can you please stop this? I did not need my world dismantled today. I mean, did I tell you or did I tell you? And I've got more to show you. I do want to make you watch a little bit more. Austin Butler is hot. Yeah. And I. I don't know from pop photos, I just. He seemed like a good guy, whatever. But damn, that voice. The voice, like, it is. It reverberates. Is a. There's a quality to him speaking. And his physicality, it is just very arresting. I can't turn away. It's like I'm just. I'm grateful. I'm not deaf. We're married women. We're. Let's remember that. No, I know. And we're doing a deep dive about a woman, but we are straight nonetheless. We are straight women. I just want to make you watch a little bit more, if you don't mind. Let's see a little bit more. Listeners, you're gonna be seeing this on your screen. Is your full name Austin Robert Butler? You never said my full name before. How do you feel about it? That's my real name. That's my full name. Are you from Anaheim, California? That's right, yeah. Are you about to take a lie detector test? Yes. I mean, you know what's so funny about this is like, I'm like, penn Badgley's so great. He's married, he has kids. And. But we're like Zoe Kravitz, you know, she got a divorce. Now she's dating all these hot guys. It's incredible. It's a double standard that I'm standing by. I mean, she also, you know, she. They didn't have any kids for sure. Also, I just. I love to see a woman with a bunch of hot guys. Absolutely. It just feels right. Well. And you know, what I love about Zoe Kravitz is she didn't pull a gig. Hadid dating some much older Guy, you know, like, she's always dating the hot young things. Yes. Like, that are like age. She kind of is just like getting what she deserves and I like that. No, I love. No, it's a story of hope. Well, and it's like, it's. She is dating, like, men on her level, actually. Anyway, sorry for making everyone sit through the Austin Butler thing, but I just. That video totally turned, like, turned me into a fan. And I'm very excited to see the movie that they're in together. Caught stealing. Okay, so let me watch it. I believe they hooked up. I mean, I felt like there was chemistry in that video. Video? Didn't you all co stars hook up if you're single? And that's like, that's, that's. That's called being alive. Yeah, exactly. But bringing us, you know, up to date, up to, you know, this moment in time. Her and Harry Styles have been spotted all over London holding hands. Apparently he has met Lenny. Yes. So it is on. It's on, baby. And Olivia Wilde has weighed in. I know. What did she say? She said something like an interesting pair. Yeah. She's called the. The coupling interesting. And also said that she couldn't care less. Yes. I mean, I don't think it's actually all that interesting. I think it's pretty exciting. Yeah. And it's like two hot people together. But yeah. Anyway, that kind of concludes the Zoe Kravitz dating history. Yes, Chandler. So that concludes her Paramore section, past and present. Now let's move on to any scandals that have happened to Zoe or that she's been a part of. The first was during the Oscars in 2022. I mean, I will say, you guys, this is a short list. They're all pretty benign. Nothing is that crazy. But, you know, we're trying to be a journalist. Exactly. So after Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars in 2022, Zoe posted an Instagram photo of her Oscars dress with the caption, here's a picture of my dress of the show where we apparently are assaulting people on stage now. Fans dragged her for what they saw as a tone deaf shade and she deleted the post. It was one of the first times her cool girl Persona clashed with Internet. That backlash. I mean, that doesn't sound that crazy to me. Yeah, I mean, I thought we all thought it was kind of crazy that he slapped. Yeah. Chris Rock. I think people were saying it was like, I think it was a little bit of a racial thing, that she was upset that, you know, that she was basically, you know, that like, because he, because Will Smith was black, that like she was, you know, calling out his rage more than she would call out somebody else's rage. I don't know, I can't totally explain it, but. But the Internet didn't like it. Okay, well, I think the Internet would be more justified in being upset about this next scandal. So. In a 2013 interview, she joked about the then 14 year old Jaden Smith, saying she hoped she could date him when he was older. Even though it was tongue in cheek. The resurfaced comments sparked criticism. Yeah, they did. I mean, she's also. I'm gonna read her quote. She said while speaking to V magazine alongside fellow actress Nicola Peltz. This is what she said, you know, about spending time with Jaden Smith. I think for a movie. She says, there were moments that I was hanging out with Jaden and thinking, I can't believe you're 14. I have to check myself, like, what I say to you. He has so much personality and so much swag. He is so much cooler than I am and he's so handsome. I was always like, when you're older, you know, we'll hang out. Nope, that's inappropriate. You're 14. Kind of, kind of a little, a little weird. But also she's like trying to be self aware. Yeah. I don't know. It's like, men have done a lot worse. That's so true. And then we're gonna get into, you know, she had a little bit of a remark about nepotism, about being a nepo baby. She says it's completely normal for people to be in the family business. That's why last names exist. Honestly, I concur. Like these, these kids are doing exactly what every kid does. Like make you. You make use of any resource you can to succeed in this world. Well. And I just have to say. Yeah. Something I was thinking about a lot as we were, as we're preparing for these deep dives, you know, with Gracie and with, with Zoe. You know, they go to these woo woo schools. Yeah. Where it's like, be an artist. Right, right. Be right in your journal every day. Like they're just not going to regular schools where they're learning. Like, you gotta go get a job in marketing. You know, they're learning about how they need to be like dreaming and thinking and creating. Total. Literally. Exactly. And so, you know, it's like, yeah, that. Well, yeah, she's getting some perks. But like, I don't know, it's just like that's the sea that she was brought up in. Additionally, it's not like, you know, this is the daughter of starving artists who sees how difficult this life path is and how actually, like, it can lead to a lot of financial instability. But these are people, like kids who are seeing their parents who not only are creatively fulfilled and adulated, but then also really rich. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I'll take that path. That sounds pretty. Why wouldn't I? Like, oh, wait, I'm sorry. You know what I would love to do instead? What if I could get a. An MBA that would I'm. And get on the track to work at Amazon. No, literally, like, I. Let's go climb the corporate ladder. Let me get a, you know, some freaking pumps and a blazer. Right? Yeah. Like, you know what I want to do instead of, instead of hanging out with my celebrity friends on the weekends and just having total financial freedom, being on the COVID of Teen Vogue, traveling everywhere. I want to work with a LinkedIn coach. That's what, like, you guys, we can't fault them too much. No, we would all do the exact same thing. We would do the exact same thing. I think that sort of concludes our coverage of Zoe Kravitz. Oh, well, I want to say one thing also in her defense, and I can. I think that also kind of applies to Gracie Abrams as we're about to move into the Gracie Abrams section. But I just think that, like, there's a lot of celebrity children who are not stars. And for me, if you're a celebrity child, you're a NEPA baby and you are a successful actor or successful musician. Like, those things take real talent. You got to hit your mark. You actually have to. You have to act. Well, like, yeah, you might be able to get the audition. That doesn't mean you're going to get the role. That doesn't mean you're going to keep getting roles. You know, you have a few, like, terrible movies people, they don't care who your parents are. They're not going to have you. You know, I can have a great career. Yeah. There's plenty of famous people's kids who do not turn out to be, like, all that great at the craft. And I just think that especially when we're going to now talk about Gracie Abrams, it's like, doesn't matter if you're JJ Abrams daughter. You can't buy that voice and you can't buy that songwriting ability. Yeah. So with that said, let's move on from the Zoe Kravitz part of this deep dive and move on to the other Nepa, baby. We are deep diving today which is Gracie Abrams. Yes, please. Chandler. Macy's fall fashion guide is is a one stop solution for all of our fashion needs to look fresh this fall. Fall is when I love shopping the most because it is coat weather, it is layering weather. There's just so many good things to shop for. I'll tell you one outfit that I am, you know, particularly keen on perfecting. It's my Canadian tuxedo. Okay? It's one of my favorite looks. I love a little denim on denim and Macy's is fully enabling me in this quest. Okay, I've got the Levi's cinch high rise barrel leg jeans in my cart and I think I will be pairing them with the 90s cotton trucker jacket also from Levi's. It'll be the perfect little set. They have so much good Levi's on Macy's.com right now. I really want the women's 501 original fit straight leg jeans. They just look like those classic good old all American Levi's jeans that we all want. I mean, we're all chasing the high of an amazing pair of Levi Levi's. We absolutely are. Can I also say they have really, really cute shoes from Sam Edelman. There are these mesh Mary Jane flats with rhinestones on them. I think they're perfectly chic. They're so cute for fall. They're on trend. They have a little bling. I am obsessed. There's an olive color that I really, really love. I love a little mesh shoe, especially for the fall. You know, we're putting the toes away but we're still showing bit, a little, a little bit of skin. You know, sticking with the shoe theme, I will tell you that the loafers from GH Bass are incredible. These are like a classic loafer. GH Bass is like the, you know, brand for loafers and Macy's has them. Can I tell you, I'm also getting into the really exquisite romantic sheer tops from Rachel Roy that they have at Macy's right now. There's nothing you love more than a sheer romantic top, I'll be honest. And nothing that my husband loves more either. Chandler, everyone, Macy's Fall fashion guide just makes putting outfits together so easy. They have all the 2025 trends statement luxury weekend in the country, the new boho. If there's a trend, they've got it. So you know, whether into the romantic shirt tops like Lauren leather layers or animal prints, Macy's is really a one stop shop. And what more could you ask for? I mean, I think people don't realize that Macy's carries some of the best, best brands. The other thing I love about Macy's is that the fall fashion guide, it just has everything curated in one place. So there's so many excellent selections. So I can see what is on trend for fall and get really inspired about how I want my wardrobe to look. Macy's has it all and the prices are not as expensive as you would think. I think people don't realize that some of the best brands, the brands that we love, are at Macy's for a much better, better price. Yes, it is where I buy so many of Kagan's clothing because we know the staples he loves and I know to get it at the best prices at Macy's. Everyone don't sleep on Macy's, okay? And don't stress about reinventing your wardrobe this fall. Just shop@macy's.com or pop into a store and let them do the curating for you. All right, so now let's dive into the life, the career, the love life of one Gracie Abrams. So Gracie Abrams was born on September 7, 1999. So she is. She just turned another age because it was just September. Oh, you're right. So what is she? She's she like 26 now? Yeah, I think she's 26. Okay, so Zoe Kravitz is 10 years older than her. And so Zoe has had obviously a lot more adult life to get into. So I think this section is going to be a little bit shorter. Although there's actually quite a bit of lore that might actually make this section just as long. We shall see. We'll see. Because we are going to discuss the Paul Mescal, the Phoebe Bridgers and the Bo Burnham of it all. And the Daisy Edgar Jones. Yes. Excuse me. And Daisy Edgar Jones, who plays a very large role in the lore. Yes. Anyway, without further ado though, let's talk about Gracie's childhood. So she is the daughter of J.J. abrams. I did not know this Chandler, but he is a huge Hollywood producer. Wait, you didn't know who J.J. abrams was? No. Okay, so I carry that burden. I mean, even I knew who J.J. abrams was. Like, he's a household name. I'm Star Wars. You're like, I don't watch the comic book movies. Wait, I didn't know he did Star Wars. Yes. Okay, so he also did Lost in Alias. Yes. What's interesting, I think about, about this is like this Is not like Gwyneth Paltrow being the daughter of, you know, Bruce and Blythe, where it's like, yeah, they might fly first class and they might. She might go to a nice private school and they might. They might have two nice homes. Like she is from an ultra, ultra wealthy family. Like he is worth reportedly $500 million. So this is just a different level. Yes. So that part, I think that is interesting. Well, I think one telltale thing is that her mother, Katie McGrath, was the co founder or is the co founder and CEO of Bad Robot Productions, which I fully seen on like a credits thing. Definitely. And now she runs major philanthropic projects. Which is code for uber rich. Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. I just need to start telling people I'm really busy with my philanthropic projects. Yeah, I'm just. I'm spending so much time in with my philanthropic efforts these days. Sorry, I can't get back to your tip. Next. Yeah, my philanthropic projects are just like really all consuming right now. I gotta like work on making it sound a little bit more natural. I need to say the word philanthropic a couple more times. I think the people who do the philanthropic stuff, they. They call philanthropy. So my philanthropy is just really a lot right now. I would say my philanthropy. I think there's. I'm just really busy with all the philanthropy we're participating in right now. It doesn't sound natural for either of us. We're. We're broke. We're clearly not the ultra rich. Yeah. So anyway, this meant that Gracie grew up in the heart of Hollywood privilege, surrounded by filmmakers and stars. She began writing songs at the age of 8, sketching out lyrics that felt more like diary entries. She says this is how she began composing songs on the piano. Can I say something really quick? Yeah. I think this is where we see the LA arts, you know, the Woo Woo schools really in action. They don't seem to be all that worried about standardized testing. No, it's a good point. She says, my third grade teacher, Amy, who I adored, encouraged us to journal and got us these tiny little palm size flimsy pocket journals. She wouldn't read what we wrote, but she checked the dates to see if we were consistent. She totally got me writing in general. And I found that it was my favorite way to spend my time. I actually ultimately preferred expressing myself there as opposed to face to face with another person. And then the music came. Because I was lucky enough to grow up in a house with a piano. So humble I was. But I always stopped writing on the piano whenever I heard footsteps because it wasn't for anyone but myself. That's the origin story. So this is a Jimmy. A part of a Jimmy Fallon interview that she gave talking about her songwriting and kind of her. Her nerves when it comes to performing. I'm not trying to overly tease her, but it's just funny. Like, I was lucky enough to grow up in a house with a piano. Honestly, that's like very self aware because I. We had a piano growing up. We never played that well. No, we never played. But I think if I. If I did and I was describing, like my whatever songwriting, I would not be like, I was lucky enough to grow up in a house. Like, maybe you know what that speaks to it, honestly. Sounds like media training. No, literally, like, talk about the fact that you had a piano. Right. And not everyone has a piano. Not everyone, Gracie. Not everyone has a piano. It absolutely is media training. It's just like so. So over the top, I guess, because, like. Well, maybe the. I don't know, like, a lot of people have pianos. No, I know keyboards. It's like, it's not that exclusive. Totally. It's like it's not a harpsichord. No, it's not like, it's almost like saying, like, I. Like she. She's trying to say, like, not everyone has an installed organ, you know, in the amphitheater within their house. Yes, Yes. A lot of people actually have pianos. A lot of, like people of all walks. Like, especially in growing up Mormon. Totally. Yes. Anyway, Gracie, just own it, girl. Own it, baby. Own the piano. Lifestyle. No, I was terrified of the concept. I didn't. I started writing songs or journaling really when I was like, you know, 8 years old, because I didn't want to talk to people about feelings. So I would go and write and journal. And then that kind of led to songwriting, but it wasn't. The concept of performing to a human being made me terrified. Like, the night before my first show, I hadn't played a show pre Covid. So after quarantine was lifted, we had our first show. Is truly like, like, I think under 100 people. And the night before, I was like, I'm not truly. I'm sorry. Projectile vomiting. Like, so, so scared. So you were that scared. Yeah. So a humble gal. Humble gal. Also, I believe that people still get really nervous. Yeah. You know, the projectile vomiting sounds very real. I believe her. Well, and I also think that, like, she's just used to her piano at home. It's true. I also think there would be an added pressure if you. I don't know if, if you are one of these Nepo babies. Like how I gotta live up to my parents, gotta live up to this pedigree. Absolutely. So she cites Joni Mitchell and Elliot Smith as her inspirations for her confessional style of music. She attended the Archer School for Girls, one of LA's elite private schools, before graduating in 2018. That fall she started her new life at Barnard College in New York. So we're gonna play a little Instagram video that she posted of her dancing in her nyc. Would it be a dorm room or. It does look like what kind of apartment? It kind of looks like an apartment. Yeah, it's like a little apartment. It's very wholesome. She's got an AC unit. You know, this is not, it's very humble, normal college student vibes. Yeah, it's not like Mary Kate and Ashley who moved into a 300 million dollar penthouse. Oh, you know what, she has a boob light too. What's a boob light? See this just goes to show you've never experienced this. They're like a lot of the, they're just like the classic light that's at that like comes with your apartment. That's really ugly. Do you see what I'm talking about? It's like a little, that's what people like put up. Because I thought it was cute. Well, I think some people probably do, but that's like, like those are the lights that like we've taken down in our apartments and like had to store under our beds. Gotcha. Because they're really fugly. Well, I'm lucky enough to not have lived in a place with boob lights and a show. Yeah. And like her dorm room or this room, sorry, her bedroom has like Polaroids, you know, on it. It's very cute. It's very, you know, just like young girl living in New York. So she first gained attention posting her demos and singles on SoundCloud. So this is something where I just want to actually have a moment. Gracie Abrams. I think I was familiarized with her when she performed at Eras tour and that's when I started to hear more about her. She's only released two albums. She's very young in her career and I think I have felt like, oh wow, like I am like I like miss the boat on this like big star. But I don't actually think so. I think, I think her, you know, she's barely left the harbor and so totally. I just want to say to anyone else who feels like, like they're too late to get on. On the Gracie Abrams game. No, there's only two. She's only released two albums. It's not too late. It's not too late. It's never too late. I think that. I think I discovered her or I didn't discover her, my friend. I think Kate sent me some of her music and this was like maybe two years ago. Yeah, number two, like, started his career at 65. Obsessed. I think I played some of her music for you the other night. And did you like it? I mean, I'm. I'm getting so into grizzly. Really? Yeah. I just think there's something so emotionally resonant and honest and simple about her music. It's very Joni Mitchell and I just. I really love it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's really good. I think it's our type of music. So she released her debut EP Minor in 2020 and it's standout track. I miss you. I'm sorry. I'm sure everyone knows that one. That's. It's. It's such a Nick. It's so good. Yeah, everyone's heard that one. It turned into a TikTok anthem during the Pandemic. And the EP introduced her signature style, which is what we're talking about. The introspective lyrics, stripped down production, you know, it's basically just like her and her guitar and some emotional vocals, and I love her for it. And people also adore her music. She's built a really loyal fan base and this has maybe made her one of like the rising stars in pop music. I want to play a little bit of I miss you. I'm sorry. In case anyone hasn't heard it. And it's a clip she. So she performed for Jimmy Fallon. I believe it was during COVID because it was like a remote performance. She's so young in this video. But I think that when you watch this, you really see, like, okay, this is, this is real talent. Like, this is a star. Is that still true? You said forever in the end. I thought it. Please be honest. Are we better for it? Thought you'd hate me, but instead you called and said, I miss you. I caught it anyway. Just beautiful. Very, very beautiful voice. Also. Did you say this already? But like you can kind of see it's like a little bit messy in the background. No, I didn't see it. It's like. It's like her. Just her. Her bedroom is just very relatable. Well, and she just looks like she's like a little girl almost. Yeah, yeah. It's just. It's really. I think it's, like, special to witness because it's like, this is real talent, you know, it's not like she's this, like, manufactured pop star. Her vocals are very bare. Her vocals are incredible. But also it's her. Her writing these songs. So it's not just like. Like, this isn't a pretty mess. Okay. This isn't Erica. Yeah, this is. Yeah, definitely a far cry. Like, this is a real artist. Yeah. And I just think that's a special thing. That. That's not something her parents bought for her. Yeah. Yeah. So she also got a big boost in fame when she opened up for Olivia Rodrigo during her sour tour in 2022. And then maybe the biggest opening spot of all time for Taylor during eras. Yeah. And apparently it's her connection to Aaron Dessner that secured her potentially. The rumor is, like, the connection to Taylor and her place at the ERAS tour. Opening for Taylor. Yeah. Because I think he worked on the Secret of Us, her next album. And the bond between Taylor and Gracie obviously extends well beyond Aaron because they wrote the song. Is it called Us? Yeah. So they wrote the song Us Together. And there's a video on. Have you heard it? Yeah. It's an amazing song. It's an incredible song. And they wrote it together. There's a video of them writing it on Gracie's Instagram. And also it's like, it's a very famous video of. They have, like, a cake that. That gets caught on fire somehow. Yeah. And Taylor puts it out with a fire extinguisher. And it's actually very funny because Gracie seems like she knows way more, like, how to handle an emergency situation. She was like, don't you, you know, do, like, don't use water. Get the fire extinguisher? She's like, you know you would never use water on something like this. Right. And Taylor's, like, a little bit freaking out. She's like, I think we're gonna die. I think we're dead again. It's just. It's very cute. Wait, you really can't use water? I'm laughing, but why can't you use water? You know, what's so interesting is I didn't really know that either, but apparently you're not supposed to put out fires with water. What are the. What the. Are firefighters doing? Okay, let's. Let's just chat. I think this is an important moment. We're going to take a quick safety break. I mean. Okay, let me just also say you look at this up on ChatGPT. I'm going to say a couple more things about fire safety. Okay. I now own a fire blanket, thanks to my sister made me buy it. An account I love, and I feel a lot safer knowing that I have this. It's basically a blanket that you keep underneath your sink that you would, like, throw on a flame. I. A fire extinguisher does comp. Does seem very complicated to me. I know we should probably do training, because I think you have to probably, like, do. There's a lever you have to pull. But a fire blanket seems very simple. It's just like the act of just throwing something on something else. Yeah. And I think I have fire spray, too. Wait, I want that. Okay. That's incredible. I'll order both for you. Yeah. So apparently you're not supposed to use water to put out grease, oil, electrical, or certain metal fires. I mean, how are you supposed to distinguish. No, literally, so. So I think maybe this is where the fire blanket comes in handy. Yeah. Water can spread flammable liquids, cause electrocution, and create dangerous steam explosions. So instead, use appropriate extinguishing methods, such as smothering a grease fire with a lid or using a fire extinguisher. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Everyone do your own research. Impressive that Gracie knew. No, it is impressive because, I mean, she. She probably grew up with someone around who could have put out the fire, you know? Yeah. But she still. It was just her. I'm trying to find a joke with the piano, but I'm struggling. Anyway, it's cute. The video is cute. I love that they're friends. If you have harsh overhead lighting in your apartment or your home, that just feels like an instant vibe killer. Why don't you go to Wayfair and check out their beautiful floor lamps and table lamps? 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Quintcom/ apologist. So Gracie even joined Taylor on the final night of the ERAS tour in Vancouver and That's when she performed I love you, I'm sorry. And she helped Taylor perform Last Kiss. So there's. There's a cute bond between the two of them. And I think something, you know, a part of this matrix. Yeah. Is the Olivia Rodrigo of it all. Because Olivia Rodrigo is, you know, is a star. She's a reason. She's one of the reasons that Gracie Abrams kind of got some of her stardom. But there's obviously tension between Olivia and Taylor. Yeah. I wonder how Gracie kind of, like, manages that or navigates that or she's just left Olivia in the dust. Well. And she's got, you know, herself in another kind of tangle. Entanglement. Yeah. Because of. Phoebe Bridgers also opened for Taylor Swift during the ERAS tour. And Phoebe Bridgers was engaged to Paul Mescal, who is currently dating Gracie. So lots to get into, everybody. Yeah. Buckle in. We're just. This ride is not, you know, we're not getting off anytime soon. She wrapped up her headlining tour a couple weeks ago in August. This was in support of her second studio album, the Secret of Us, and it went from September to August. So basically a full year, September 2024 to August 2025, with a big summer leg that upgraded to a major. That upgraded to major North American arenas. So it just was huge. And she even added a few more, like, nights because there was just so much demand for it. So let's talk about Gracie's friendships and her Hollywood circles, shall we? So one of the things about Gracie's circle is she kind of tends to hang out with fellow kind of moody artists. Yeah. While Zoe kind of more occupies, like, the party girl circuit, Gracie seems to really kind of surround herself with. Yeah. Fellow artists. Like musicians. And musicians. Exactly. So chief among them is Taylor Swift. Taylor has publicly praised Gracie's songwriting, calling her one of the most gifted young storytellers of her generation. The two became close during the ERAS tour, with Taylor giving Gracie public shout outs on Instagram and later collaborating. One thing that's interesting, and I don't know if you remember this, but there was a moment during the ERAS tour where Taylor brings out Gracie as, like, the surprise guest and you. The audience is kind of, like, visibly annoyed that it's Gracie. They're not annoyed, but they're just, like, not super excited. I think they kind of, like, just wanted someone bigger. Not even that. I think they just, like, really wanted to hear Taylor sing her surprise. Interesting. And, like, aren't. Weren't super interested in her being joined by someone. Is that when she brought up when she was singing Last Kiss. Maybe. I don't know what song it was. But the interesting part about it is Taylor goes, can we be a little warmer? Wow. She kind of, like, asks the crowd to, like, share more, so. Very interesting. So a couple other girlies. Some of these we've already mentioned, obviously, Phoebe Bridgers. I don't know where their friendship stands today, but they were friends. Yeah. Olivia Rodrigo, who brought up. Also Claro. I don't think. Listen to Claro before. I have not. And then another person who's also a part of the entanglement is Daisy Edgar Jones. Yeah. Is another person Gracie was friends with. Have you normal people? Yes. I have not. You'd like it. Really? Okay. I probably. I need to. I think, to get into the Paul Mescal, because you're not currently. I mean, I saw him in A Streetcar Named Desire, so I actually saw him in the flesh. Yeah. And what happened there? And what did you think of him there? That. It was a very intense play. Yeah. I will say. Was he hot to you? No. Okay. Well, yeah. You gotta watch normal people. I mean, he was. He's a cute guy. Yeah. I mean, it's like he's not interested in me, so it's like. I. I don't. That's just. That's never a prerequisite. Well, I know. It's just like. It's like, I don't want new critique homes I can't afford. And I don't. You just. Disney with Austin Butler. I know. I'm just. It's okay if he's not your total cup of tea. It's okay if he's not your cup of tea. Okay, let's get into who was Gracie's cup of tea? So Gracie dated Blake Jake Slatkin, who is a music producer. In fact, he used to work for Benny Blanco. He's just like. Yeah. He's a music guy behind the scenes. And they dated for a long time. They dated for five years. Yeah. And a lot of her songs are about that relationship. Right. And most recently, she has been dating Paul Mescal since 2024. I mean, I remember when Dumois posted the photo of them in that cafe. Yeah. And it's. It's pretty hot. Hot. It's hot because one of her songs is about him, and it's about. I mean, I think probably a lot of her songs are about him. But there's one song that's about kind of when they first got together, when he wasn't fully ready to be in the relationship because he was still grieving. Phoebe Bridgers. Yeah. And which song is that? I'll play it for you. Okay. Also, a fun fact about. About Gracie Abrams is she played on 31 stops of theirs tour, and she says she watched every single performance and. But watched it from, like, almost every single vantage point. And so she just tried to learn as much from, like, Taylor and soak up as much as possible during that experience. So, anyway, just be so incredible to have been able to, like, you know, watch from behind the scenes of theirs. Oh, it would have been insane. Okay, so I'm gonna play a little bit of the song that is about Paul Mescal, and it's called Free now. And it's really good. I love it. And there's a video of him on TikTok of him at one of her shows, and he's singing along to it, and it's very cute. And like. Like, one of the videos I saw said, like, the irony of Paul Mascout's cheering and singing along to a song about him rejecting the person performing it. Yeah. Which is pretty crazy. So let me see. I was great when I kissed you. Very safe. I mean, she's got it. I just. It almost, like, made me emotional. I just like the. It's so good. And I think knowing that they're together now, I would encourage you to listen to this song. I. I will. I will listen to it in full. I'm gonna listen to both albums in full, Chandler. Well, good. I hope you will. I've just only been listening to the this is Gracie Abrams Spotify playlist. This because I thought there was so much. Okay, well, anyway, please watch some more. I've become educated. Okay, so let's get into a few scandals Gracie's been a part of. So on SNL in December 2024, she said she feels like she somehow cheated the system into being there. What was meant as a moment of humility became a talking point in the Nepo baby discourse. Critics used it as evidence that she was handed opportunities. This is what I would call a nothing burger. Yeah, I mean, she did kind of get to cheat the system a little bit by being an EPO baby, but I don't know. Yeah, it's not the end of the world. There's also been backlash that she opened on the ERAS tour for Taylor. So people called her an industry plant, and they compared her to other young artists who didn't have, you know, the luxury of Hollywood parents to give her a leg up in the industry. I would say the Biggest scandal, though, that she's a part of is the Internet chatter discussing her romance with Paul Mescal. And the love triangle overlap with Phoebe Bridgers, who was previously linked to him. Yeah, so there's like these three ladies. There's Phoebe Bridgers, there's Daisy Edgar Jones, and there's Gracie Abrams. And the Internet is just constantly on fire talking about Paul Mescal's like, emotions for all of them, really. Okay, so. So this is something that I was not privy to at all before this episode. Episode. And I'm really excited to dive in. Okay, so let's start with. Let's start with who Daisy Edgar Jones is. Daisy's a gorgeous actor, you know, from the uk. She's in Normal People. She is his co star. She's his co star. And they're just incredible and normal people together, really, it's very believable. Okay. They're just like very well suited. He's hot, she's hot. But it's like, it's also. They're not super perfect looking. Like, I don't know, obviously they're movie stars. They are gorgeous. But. Well, that's actually, I will say, like, like Paul Mescal to me is. Is kind of a weird looking guy. I don't think he's actually. Oh, I think he's totally hot. He's. He's handsome. He's almost handsome in like an Adam Driver type way. Like, he has a quirky. He has some quirky, sure. He's not like a. He's not a Calvin Klein model. Okay, well, you know, just keep it yours. So let's start. So. So they're in Normal People. Normal People premieres. It's a TV show. Phoebe Bridgers tweets and she says, finished watching Normal People and now I'm sad and horny. Oh, wait. And then Paul Mescal responds to this, this is all in, I think May of 2020, and says, I'm officially dead. And then Phoebe responds and says, no, don't die. You're so talented. And then shortly thereafter, Phoebe asked him to be in her music video Save Her Savior Complex. And I think this is kind of when their romance begins. So they start dating and they're just super in love. It's very cute. I just remember being super happy that she was dating this like, like total hunk. I would describe Paul Mascal as a hunk. Would you not? Oh, completely yanky. So I think he's like almost like hobby or part time adjacent to me. Like you're like saying, I Don't know. I don't know. You're not totally agreeing with me. No, I am agreeing. I think. No, I think he's. He's big, he's brawny. He's. He's super cute. I just think he has. He's like, kind of like, you know, like, odd looking cute. I don't think he's odd looking. This is where we're differing. But anyway, so they're dating. Yeah. Normal people is like, just. Everyone loves it. And I think a lot of people really want him, Daisy, to be a thing. And he talks about her a lot in interviews. Daisy. Okay, so I'm gonna play. So it's kind of like. It's kind of like Ryan gosling and Rachel McAdams. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Oh, there's no chance in hell. I'm telling you, the costume. I want to dedicate this to Daisy. So I'm gonna play. This video is basically a video of all the times he's mentioned Daisy or talks about Daisy. And there's definitely a kind of. I don't know, you can tell that he. He's wooed by her. So this picture from the Met Gala, like, is just crazy. It lights the Internet. Well, yeah, we're gonna play the video first or. Oh, I played it. I couldn't tell if you were bored with it. No, I wasn't. I think part of it. Look at it from the outside. And I was like, daisy's making this look easy. What celebrity do I get mistaken for? Daisy Edgar Jones, sometimes. No, you do. They like to take photographs of, like, people that I love and care about. There's just. It's a lot of sweet clips of them. They're clearly great friends. So then there's this moment at the Met Gala where Paul is holding Phoebe, but he's looking kind of past her a bit. She's looking at him, and he is looking at. Directly at Daisy. At Daisy as she's posing for the red carpet. And it's. I mean, and he kind of has like a. Like a longing gaze. Yeah, yeah. And the Internet runs wild with this. So this is just a video of. That says My Roman Empire. And it's just all of them at the Met Gala, but they're all friends. They're all. So it's the three of them at the Met Gala. But the thing that's interesting about this video is that he has his arm on Daisy's waist even though he's there with Phoebe Bridgers touching Phoebe at all. And there are comments that are like, break up. Immediately. This would be enough to be done with someone immediately. Absolutely. Okay, so then what's crazy is that Daisy actually addresses this viral Met Gala moment. Have you seen the meme surrounding this image and what are your thoughts? Yes, I have seen the meme. It's the photo of her at the Met Gala that we're. Paul's looking at her. It's kind of wild considering the innocence behind it. So I was having kind of an out of body experience at the Met Met Gala. So Paul had said, like, you know, come and meet me and we could do it together, which was, you know, because we're such good friends and it was such a cool thing to be able to go together, but he was quite late. So I was sort of stood at the entrance of the Met Gala. And when you go, there's like this pen where you're kind of held. And then you go to and do the carpet. You have to, like, scan your barcodes off. I looked like I was working there, so I was like, how are you staring at Jessica Parker? Just scan your. To the left, like. And then I did this sort of Vogue Live interview. And unfortunately, that became a bit of a meme as well in its own right. But finally Paul came with Thebes and we were waiting and did the carpet together. And honestly, he's my pal, so he's probably just going like, hey, there she is. The thing I find most sad about this, though, is, like, again, I had been in Covid for most of the time doing press on Zoom. This was like, one of the few times I'd actually been in person. And it was still early days, so I didn't know how to pose, like, on a red carpet. So I think, anyway, she deflects shock. She addresses it. I know, it's pretty crazy. So let me see, where are we at in this scandal? Because we got to get to Gracie. We need to focus. Yeah, we need to get Gracie into it. Okay, so Phoebe and Paul are rumored to be broken up around December 2022. And that is around the exact same time that she's linked to Bo Burnham. They are still first, you know, seen kissing at Taylor Swift's concert in 2023. And enter Gracie. Yeah. So then Gracie and Paul are first spotted at a London at a London restaurant called Brat. And then they're just photographed all summer together. And I think this is when, like, potentially, you know, he's not ready when some of these earlier songs are, you know, but these earlier songs are about. And yeah, throughout the rest of 2024, the romance kind of continues. And it's. It's. Up until now, it's totally solid. And Gracie is, like, hard. Posted him on her Instagram and, like, they all kind of seem like friends, except for Phoebe, I would say. But I think, like, I think Daisy is friends with them still. And so, I don't know. It's kind of just like. I mean, what do you think really happened there? Do you think that he actually was into her? Yeah, I think so. Also, let me just say about the Phoebe thing, I actually think that. I think Phoebe and Gracie were friends before they started dating, and I think they kind of still are because there is a photo of them hugging at an award show in 2024. So I don't think they're. There's super bad blood, and they both open for Taylor Swift, and so it seems like there's not a ton of bad blood there, which is good. And, you know, the Daisy allegations are just kind of still there in the background. These circles are just incestuous. I mean, you think about Zoe with Harry, and, you know, Harry was obviously with Taylor, and now we have Gracie with Paul, but she was with Phoebe, and it's Taylor's. Taylor. Taylor's in the. In the middle of everything. Taylor is so much. Taylor is just atlas the world on her shoulders, truly. You know, I love Gracie Abrams. I'm here for her and Paul Mescal. I think they're a darling couple. It's very sweet to see him at her concerts. Yeah, people make fun of her because there's a little bit of, like, a Gracie Abrams Internet joke where, like, if anything goes wrong, it's like, Gracie Abrams fault. Like, you know, people will say Lana Del Rey and Ethel Kane are fighting. So I blocked Gracie Abrams. Please take my period cramps and give them to Gracie Abrams. I can't take it anymore. Wait, I don't get it. Why? It's like, if something bad has happened, it's Gracie Abrams fault. Oh, interesting. I don't really know why. Yeah, it's just a random joke. Also, people say that she never wears a sweater in her normal way because she's always lifting up her shirt. She has amazing abs. Oh. I mean, fair enough, fair enough. So anyway, those are the big scandals with Gracie Abrams. I love that we were like, let's talk about a scandal when it comes to Gracie Abrams. And we really just talked about Paul Mescal, Phoebe Bridgers, Daisy Edgar Jones. Daisy Edgar Jones. It was actually just them three that had the scam. Yeah. No, Gracie actually played very. Didn't really actually find part of this, like, love triangle thing of all these, you know, these whiny girls. Not really. I love these whiny girls. I love their music. I literally have been in love with, you know, been a Phoebe Bridgers fan since the beginning. And fun fact, Phoebe Richards is a big fan of our favorite sushi restaurant in the Lower east side. No, no celebrities. Listen to this podcast. Chandler, do you know that, like, when I went to Rosella. Yeah, she's a fan of Rosella. I think pretty frequently when I went to Phoebe Bridger's concert when I was like, at in college eating Rosella. No, no, it was like a very small concert because she wasn't, you know, super big yet. Oh, here we go. My number. Her band manager asked for my phone number. Oh. Because he was interested. Yes. You were looking good that night. I clearly was. Did you guys hook up? No, I think actually, well, I was there with Wyatt and Courtney and I stepped out of the room and he asked Wyatt it, like, for my number and why it was like, no, I think. I don't know. No, I think why he gave it to him, I don't know. And then he gave. I don't know. I. I think I maybe had his number at a certain point. But anyway, didn't end up working out. Yeah. Such a small world, Chandler. You know, I don't get my number asked for all that much. You know, it happens every now and that doesn't really happen in this day and age. Yeah. So it feels good when it does, you guys. I mean, I think this has been. I mean, somehow I've made the Gracie Abrams deep dive about myself and my. My own. Yeah. Charms. I'm trying to get the train back on the track. Get it on the tracks, baby. I think this has been such a fun, like, little road down Nepo baby Lane. Yes. Drive down road. This has been a front fun Road down now baby Lane. Drive down Nepa baby Lane. If you've enjoyed it, please let us know in the comments. Share who you would like us to deep dive next. We want to keep going with this series and we just thank you all so much for listening. Love you guys. Bye bye. This September, CBS hits are streaming free on Pluto tv. I'm coming in hot for this month only. Only you can watch full seasons of the CBS shows you love, from the courtroom drama of Matlock to the heroics of Fire Country. Go back to where it all began in NCIS origins or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts all for free. Full seasons of the CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto TV Stream now. Pay never to sing along. I'm Kaitlyn Bristowe, host of off the Vine Podcast where I get real. Maybe a little too real sometimes with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness. Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elise Myers. Just like in this like business jacket. Like I would love some tacos. Heidi d', Amelio, Big Brother's Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're gonna get through it. What I do and so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable. Because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow rate and review off the Vine Podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. Ben and I have a few weddings coming up on the calendar and honestly, I just live for them. I love weddings. The vows, the dancing, the toasts, the shopping for the perfect dress. And while I already have my outfits planned down to the earrings, Ben's suit game on the other hand, it's due for a little glow up of its own. Thankfully, Macy's men's suit sale came at the perfect time. 50 to 75% off suits, blazers and more from classics like Calvin Klein, Michael Kors, Kenneth Cole, Reaction and Nautica. It's basically like build a suit. Over at Macy's. You can go full on classic with a tailored look or mix and match. If your guy's not into the full suit vibe, you really can't miss every option feels intentional, elevated and surprisingly affordable. With Macy's, finding the perfect fit for every wedding dress code is stress free. From sharp shoots for the I dos to sleek blazers for the after party. The men's suit sale runs September 4th through September 23rd. Head to Macy's.com or shop in store and get ready to fall in love with the look.