300: Lily Allen Pens Scathing Album about David Harbour’s Cheating + The Row Sample Sale Mass Psychosis

Summary

Pop Apologists – Episode 300 Summary

Episode Title: Lily Allen Pens Scathing Album about David Harbour’s Cheating + The Row Sample Sale Mass Psychosis
Release Date: October 29, 2025
Hosts: Lauren & Chandler (sisters)
Main Themes: Celebrity gossip, culture commentary, relationships, accountability, and iconic takedowns of current pop culture moments.

---

Episode Overview

This milestone episode revolves around three primary themes:

1. Lily Allen’s explosive album "West End Girl," which details David Harbour’s infidelity—prompting comparisons to Beyoncé's "Lemonade."
2. The viral chaos and comedic futility surrounding The Row’s much-hyped sample sale.
3. A recurring segment, "Men Will Fail You Every Time," rounding up recent celebrity relationship drama and controversies.

Throughout, the sisters mix sharp humor with vulnerable takes, blend personal anecdotes with scathing pop-culture critique, and spotlight women refusing to shield men from accountability.

---

Key Segments & Highlights

1. Personal Anecdotes: Ex Encounters & Fantasy Run-Ins (00:20–17:23)

• Lauren and Chandler share tales of running into former flames at a friend’s wedding and their “revenge fantasy” scenarios of being spotted by exes while thriving with new partners.
  • Memorable line:
    "I created this entire narrative that I was the one that got away... meanwhile, I actually don't think this guy's thought about me ever at all since our one date." – Lauren (04:44)
• Playful rundown on the kind of fantasy confrontations women secretly wish for—with tongue-in-cheek visions of glam dinners, pencil skirts in Paris, and prospective exes looking crestfallen.

Memorable Quote, Chandler's Monologue Fantasy:
"I go to the bathroom and I run into him on my way, and then I say, 'you have to come meet Ben.' Like, come step into my glamorous life and get a taste of what you could have had." (10:59)

2. The Row Sample Sale: Mass Psychosis & Fashion Realness (19:58–27:32)

• Chandler confesses FOMO about not braving The Row’s infamous NYC sample sale, only to experience schadenfreude as TikToks expose the lackluster wares: overpriced, bland, and often indistinguishable from mall basics.
• Lauren delivers the scathing verdict:
  • "Instead of reading a childhood version of, like, the emperor who wears no clothes, I'm just going to play the Row sample sale TikTok videos for her so she can see just the public delusions we can all get swept into." (21:55)
• Both stress that while select Row items (bags, coats) are iconic, the majority of sale clothing comes off “completely pedestrian and common.”

Notable Reactions:

• “It all looks like Banana Republic. It’s so unremarkable.” – Lauren (23:35)
• “We’ve been inflicted by a mental sickness, to where you think 75% off 5 grand is inexpensive?” – Chandler (25:28)

3. “Men Will Fail You Every Time”: Celebrity Cheating & Relationship Fallout (27:33–44:30)

This segment power-ranks recent celebrity relationship scandals and underpins the episode’s recurring thesis: men in celebrity-ville are on a losing streak.

- Lori Loughlin & Mossimo Giannulli (28:43)

• New revelations about Loughlin confronting strippers over her husband's antics.
• Takeaway: going to a strip club to piece together what happened = "You're trying to salvage this" (29:42).

- Hugh Jackman & Sutton Foster (31:49)

• Chandler argues there’s "no need" for a public debut after both divorced their spouses to be together.
• “They are fully beginning their public rehabilitation...But do you need pap walks and red carpets? Can't you just keep it private?” – Lauren (32:34)

- Sophie Turner & Chris Martin (34:33)

• Possible new romance! Discussion of age gaps and exes, with Chandler finding the pairing “a little light in the darkness” (37:25), but Lauren noting “the age discrepancy is a little too close for comfort” (36:06).

- Katy Perry & Justin Trudeau (41:38)

• Publicly spotted leaving Paris’s Crazy Horse Cabaret.
• Both hosts express delight for Katy's post-Orlando rebound, while disclaiming ignorance of Trudeau’s political story.

- Nara Smith’s Postpartum Thirst Trap Debate (44:43)

• Much-discussed influencer addresses “body positivity” while flaunting “snapped-back” postpartum abs just two weeks after birth.
• The sisters critique this as “cloaked narcissism” and rage bait, making postpartum followers feel inadequate under the pretense of empowerment.
  • "Don’t package your thirst trap to me as a sermon about body acceptance." – Chandler (45:41)
  • Comparison with other influencers (EmRata, Hannah Neeleman), appreciating more honest takes like Morgan Stewart’s.

---

4. Prince Andrew & Epstein: A Scandal Recap (54:34–63:38)

(Content warning: sexual exploitation and abuse.)

• Gut-wrenching new details from Virginia Giuffre’s book on Prince Andrew & Jeffrey Epstein, including direct quotes outlining the depths of abuse and the ongoing royal coverup.
• The sisters weigh the monarchy’s inaction and call out their complicity.
  • "If the Royal family does not do anything more... they should all be stripped of their titles. It should all crumble down." – Chandler (58:57)
• Chandler references survivor outrage as the only avenue for justice, denounces the “tip of the iceberg,” and notes that most abused women are failed in prosecution by statute of limitations.
• Venting the need to hang onto a "men who are good" list: “Just need to think about Tom Hanks right now.” (62:35)

---

5. Lily Allen’s “West End Girl”: The Ultimate Cheating Exposé (64:00–76:41)

The centerpiece discussion of the episode.

Album Context & Lily’s Story (64:12–66:27)

• Lily Allen's new album is a direct, unfiltered, scathing account of her marriage breakdown after husband David Harbour's infidelity and secretive push for an open relationship.
  • "This album is essentially an audiobook... not like Taylor Swift with metaphors, but a narrative music version of betrayal." – Lauren (65:22)
• The sisters provide the background: marriage, Allen's past, sobriety, moving to the US, Harbour’s role as stepdad.

Album Narrative & Revelations

• The songs reconstruct the unraveling: moving for love, being blindsided with the “open marriage” proposal (while he was likely already cheating), and discovering an emotional relationship with another woman.
• On discovering infidelity:
  • "It was the way that he grabbed his phone out of her hand that made her realize there was something he didn’t want her to see." (69:47)
• Lyrics directly reference the betrayals, Harbour moving goalposts, and the eventual gutting discoveries at his secret apartment (73:38).
  • "The chorus is like, 'I thought this was a dojo'... I didn't know it was a palace." – Chandler (73:41)
  • Lily details her heartbreak, the toll on her self-esteem, and the unvarnished aftermath.
• The episode notes how the album exposes Harbour days before Stranger Things returns: “mic drop.”

Why This Album Matters

• Allen’s lack of coded language is compared to Beyoncé; this is “lemonade without metaphors.”

Sharpest Quotes:

• "She is not absorbing in her own words any of his shame." – Lauren (65:22)
• "He deserves to be publicly shamed." – Chandler (74:05)
• “We are not keeping bad men's secrets anymore.” – Chandler (76:54)
• “A giant f*** you.” – Lauren, on David Harbour and men who blow up women’s lives (76:08)
• “Hundreds of Trojans, you’re so broken.” – Lily Allen lyric, called “gutting and raw” by Chandler (77:16)

---

6. Open Relationships: The Sisters’ Take (77:59–79:41)

• Chandler quotes a viral tweet: “When you see people in an open relationship, which one of you came up with the idea, and which of you cries yourself to sleep at night?”
• Both firmly denounce open relationships, especially when one party is clearly not on board.
  • "If your husband wants to open the relationship up sexually, it's over." – Lauren (78:35)
  • They call for listeners not to “dignify this” in their own relationships.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "I want to just issue a warning to everybody online. We have all been inflicted by an illness, by a mental sickness."
  – Chandler, on The Row sample sale (22:00)

• "This is literally an audiobook music version of this betrayal by David Harbour."
  – Lauren, on Lily Allen’s album (65:22)

• "Don't package your thirst trap to me as a sermon about... body acceptance, body positivity."
  – Chandler, about Nara Smith (45:41)

• "He deserves to be publicly shamed."
  – Chandler, on David Harbour (74:05)

• "We are not keeping bad men's secrets anymore."
  – Chandler (76:54)

• "If your husband wants to open the relationship up sexually, it's over."
  – Lauren (78:35)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Fantasy “Ex” Run-Ins & Personal Life: 00:20–17:23
• The Row Sample Sale Debrief: 19:58–27:32
• Men Will Fail You / Celebrity Relationships: 27:33–44:30
• Prince Andrew / Epstein Scandal: 54:34–63:38
• Lily Allen & David Harbour Album Breakdown: 64:00–76:41
• Open Relationships Discussion: 77:59–79:41

---

Episode Tone & Style

Witty, sarcastic, and empathetic—a blend of incisive pop-culture analysis with vulnerable honesty about female experience and navigating relationship minefields. The sisters employ comedic exaggeration and punchy commentary, but center solidarity among women and call for radical honesty.

---

For Listeners

This episode is rich with sharp humor, scathing takedowns, and hot takes—especially on celebrity relationships, accountability, and the messy reality of fame. If you’ve missed the news cycle, you’ll leave fully briefed and entertained.

---

Transcript

[A]

This show is brought to you by booking.com. since 2010, they've helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. That's billion with a B. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking dot com.

[B]

Well, well, well. Back in the studio, back together on the podcast. We're not just, you know, sharing the line over the Atlantic or whatever ocean is between us.

[A]

I couldn't tell you.

[B]

We're in the studio. We're recording together.

[A]

Feels so good.

[B]

I know. It feels good. It feels right. We have been together this weekend. We have.

[A]

It's been a fun weekend. We went to our dear friend Kelsey's wedding, which was so fun. So New York chic.

[B]

Kelsey's kind of like our other sister.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

We often look like sisters, I feel like, when we all take pictures together. And anyway, it was her and her, I guess now husband Jeff's big day on Friday, Saturday.

[A]

It was so fun. And can I tell you I have a little story from this event?

[B]

Yeah, tell me.

[A]

Okay. So Kelsey went to byu, where we both went to college, and I failed to anticipate that there would be a lot of people there who I had known before.

[B]

Like, you guys ran in similar circles, I mean. Yeah, I mean, just kind of like.

[A]

That Utah Valley world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In certain decades, you know, you kind of run into the same people or have similar friends.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So anyway, so it was really fun to run into a few old friends, but I did have a moment where I ran into a guy who I used to date.

[B]

Oh, and like, an ex of yours. So I would say was at the wedding.

[A]

And I would say, used to date is dramatic.

[B]

Have you kissed?

[A]

No, we have not kissed, but we've been on one. We went on one date.

[B]

Oh, this is not an ex. This is, like.

[A]

It's not an X. But I'll tell you exactly how this went down.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I'm sitting on a couch right in between, like, an entryway from the kitchen area into a sitting room. Yeah. And I'm sitting there. I had just gotten there, basically. And I see this guy darken the doorway, and he immediately, like, makes a beeline for me, like, asks me how I've been, what I've been up to.

[B]

Say his name and we'll bleep it. I.

[A]

Let me just tell the story.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I am just like, this is so awkward. My husband is, like, right across the room looking so cute too. So I'm just like, oh, it's gonna be Poor guy. This. It's gonna be terrible for him when he realizes, like, you know, he's so excited right now because he's thinking, like, oh, my gosh. I. I'm sure he's been thinking a lot about me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But sadly, I am, like, fully. I'm fully taken.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And this is just a little awkward.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So anyway, we, like, chat, catch up.

[B]

And then his whole life has been leading to this moment.

[A]

Well, I kind of. In my head, I'm like, yeah, I feel really bad for him. I think I look gorgeous.

[B]

It looks beautiful. You really did.

[A]

Thank you. And so I just. This poor chap, you know, I was feeling for him, and so I just had to break it to him. I go, oh, you know, and this is my husband, Kagan. And I felt bad. And the night progressed. Okay. Kagan said hello. And this guy, clearly, I wasn't say. He was visibly shaken, but I knew what was going on beneath the surface.

[B]

You knew he was rattled. You kind of actually seemed a little bit rattled the whole night. I mean, you left a little early. This all makes sense now.

[A]

I left after midnight, but.

[B]

Okay. You didn't seem rattled. I'm teasing you. But did I miss this full encounter? Was I there when this happened?

[A]

You were not there. And so the night proceeds.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And I, you know, I. I fully have this, like, story in my head. And I'm also just, like, I cannot run into him again. This is, like, just gonna make the whole thing awkward.

[B]

Totally. I mean, he's gonna have no choice but to, like, I just try something. I don't want to rub it in his face. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm talking to this girl later on in the night, and she's really beautiful, and we're, like, actually chatting about jewelry. We have some. We have some things in common in terms of, like, our taste in certain items. So we're chatting, and she's super chic, great style, stunning. And, like, someone makes a joke about her husband, and I'm like, oh, like, who's your husband? Or whatever. And lo and behold, I'm actually chatting with his, like, literally stunning wife, who he has four children with, who he.

[B]

Only married, like, out of spite. Well, yeah.

[A]

It's like, the things men will do to get over you.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

But I was just. I was dying inside and laughing at myself that I had created this entire narrative that I was the one that got away.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Meanwhile, I actually don't think this guy's thought about me ever at all since our one date. Yeah. But of course, I. I had a narcissistic moment of psychosis at the wedding.

[B]

You know, you're. You're prone to those.

[A]

I am.

[B]

You're absolutely prone to those. At least you were dressed in, like, a gorgeous outfit. You know, you weren't. You didn't look slovenly.

[A]

Thank goodness. It did not. Did not look slovenly. Yes. But I just. I don't know. I find it to be so hilarious. I was chatting with Kagan about. About it.

[B]

Yeah. After.

[A]

And he was like, I would have done the same thing. It's just like, oh, you know, they've probably been so obsessed ever since. Feel so bad for them. So anyway, I just thought it was very, very funny.

[B]

Was Kagan thrown? Was he threatened? Did he have, like, a breakdown in the back that I didn't see?

[A]

I wish Kagan got more jealous, but he was unperturbed, so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, that was my little hilarious run in.

[B]

Well, I have a little. A little story on that same note.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It actually has to do with that note, because I saw this TikTok about this girl that was like, my boyfriend has, like, a note on his phone with, like, things about me that he wants to, like, remember, like, gifts I've mentioned or whatever.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I was. I showed it to Ben. I was like, this is so cute. And then he kind of was sheepish, and he said, I kind of have a note.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so then, like, a couple days later, he showed me the note.

[A]

Wait. This is so sweet.

[B]

It's very sweet. And I think he does have not so great of a memory. Okay. So it makes sense. It's a little bit more practical than it is. Like, I just am constantly thinking about this woman, but there was a section there on my exes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And with specific notes about things that I have mentioned that you didn't like. No, no, no, no, no. Like, in the note are some of my exes are my notable exes with small details about our relationship to jog his memory.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Like, you know, significant things that happened, what they did, that really hurt me. And anyway, I. I was very touched because I do often get on him about the fact that he never remembers any of my ex's names.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's like, clearly my past before him was not significant, and he doesn't want to know, like, the broken road that, like, led me to him. But anyway, it was. It was sweet to find the note. It was. It was actually quite tender.

[A]

It's actually very sweet. Very tender. I know for a fact, Hagen does not have a note on his phone. Kagan, I think, is like most men where they just don't want to know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're just not really that interested in the details. They would prefer to think that no one came before them.

[B]

But don't you want to know? Like, I want to know all the details.

[A]

Honestly, I don't find Kagan's dating past to be that illustrious, which might be kind of rude, but I just. I just am not that interested in any of the women he dated before me.

[B]

I mean, not that you're so interested in the women. I. I'm less interested in the women and more in just, like, who were you? Who. Like, what kind? I don't know. I just. I'm fascinated a little bit by it. But that might be my own, like, narcissistic psychosis.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it, like, it's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, Kagan just was not a huge.

[A]

Dater and didn't have, like, a big roster of girlfriends before me, and so that's why I'm a little bit ambivalent. Or at least that's the story I tell myself to sleep at night. I do have a question for you. Yeah. Do you have a long standing fantasy of when you run into a significant ex, not just someone you went on one date, but, like a real ex boyfriend? Have you always had a fantasy in your brain of how that would go down?

[B]

I think I did have a fantasy of how that would go down. And then we started this podcast and I realized that, and this is like a. A true thing that I've thought about when. If we were to ever run into either of our exes, it would be slightly mortifying for us because we are so chronically online. Yeah. Like, there's no more mystery. That being said. But okay, now that I live in this world.

[A]

Suspending that.

[B]

Let's just say. Oh, suspending that. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I mean, yeah, easy.

[A]

And what is that fantasy?

[B]

Okay, picture this. I'm at a dimly lit dinner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Dimly lit. And the drinks are flowing. You can tell we've been dining for three plus hours. Right.

[A]

You're deep in conversation.

[B]

Deep in conversation. And, like, elbows are on the table. Every. Well, it's like we're spilling the hottest tea possible. I've got three of my best girlfriends next to me. And then I have Ben on my other side.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So it's a group dinner. It's a group dinner. It's a group dinner that we've just been whole. Like, we've just been holding court at this restaurant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I probably have, like, a half of a blue cheese martini next to me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Super sophisticated.

[A]

Yes, definitely.

[B]

But also a drink I quite like. And Ben is like, his hair is a little curly. Just like, you know, maybe there's a little bit of a humidity in the air. I love it when his hair is curly. Anyway, and my ex, and presumably whoever he's with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, have just gotten to their table. They're being led to their table, and.

[A]

They'Re in a fight.

[B]

Well, they're just kind of like out of sorts.

[A]

They're.

[B]

They're at a New York restaurant and they're not used to these places.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

You know, and we clearly dine here all the time.

[A]

They're, like, a little overdressed.

[B]

They're a little overdressed. Maybe they just feel. They just feel slightly out of place. Like a fish out of water. They feel like a fish out of water.

[A]

First time to New York.

[B]

First time on a plane. First time on an airplane.

[A]

First time in a restaurant.

[B]

First time in a restaurant. And I don't see them, but then they see me for a solid, like, 20 minutes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Before I clock them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so then he is just kind of like sitting there dying, and he's.

[A]

Watching you just be like, glamorous, glamorous.

[B]

Glitzy, super social butterfly happy.

[A]

Happier than you've ever been.

[B]

Maybe I have a little bit of a buzz and a glow of just like, I'm just having a gorgeous night on the town with my best friends and my gorgeous husband. Yeah. Who I'm madly in love with.

[A]

You probably, like, hooked up with before you came to dinner. Yeah. In the car. Yeah. And you have some, like, a post coital energy.

[B]

Like, my cheeks are rosy. My lipstick is, like, just perfectly smudged.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. I'm laughing a lot and I'm making everyone else laugh a lot. So anyway, that's. That's just kind of a snapshot of how I'd like that to go down. Okay.

[A]

But is there any interaction?

[B]

Oh, of course. Oh, there is.

[A]

Okay. And he comes up to the table.

[B]

He approaches me. I still don't even notice. I'm still deep in conversation, ensconced and. Or maybe like, I go to the bathroom and I run into him on my way to the bathroom, and then I say, you have to come meet Ben. Yeah. You know, and it's just like, please cut. Like, come step into my glamorous life and get a taste of. Of what you could have had.

[A]

Yeah. For sure.

[B]

Yeah. I literally just on the Spot came up with that whole thing.

[A]

It was exquisite.

[B]

Nothing has ever come that easily to me.

[A]

That was not that on the spot, though.

[B]

You've thought of that before? Oh, yeah, I've thought of it before, but I think just like crystallizing it into a single moment.

[A]

Yeah, we painted a beautiful picture for us. And I actually hope that happens for you.

[B]

God. If you're listening, I want that on my 2026 bingo card.

[A]

You know what we should do? We should block all of our exes from our. From our personal and pop apologists.

[B]

So maybe anything crazier. Would anything make them think we care about them more than that?

[A]

I was gonna think it could create some mystery.

[B]

We block them and their current girlfriends.

[A]

That actually makes us, like me, care a lot. Okay, well, I'm telling you my fantasy, okay, my fantasy is a little different, but it's always been the exact same and it's a little unhinged.

[B]

Are you like on the land in Virginia, wiping your brow?

[A]

No, I'm not. I'm not telling the earth sweat of my brow looking like ripped and golden and tan and, you know, xyz. No, my fantasy has always been for some reason I'm in Europe, I'm in Paris, and we. I, me and my husband have just went to a museum. This is something King and I do not do, period.

[B]

So we're already in. In fantasy land.

[A]

Oh, no, this is. This is a fantasy. I probably like, I've ran this tape since I was a teenager.

[B]

Okay, you know what? You know who goes to museums more? The people who like Robbit. Like the heist people.

[A]

The people who what? Oh, the people who. Yes, you're so right. The people who rob museums attend more museums than me and Kagan.

[B]

Yes, correct.

[A]

Anyway, for some reason in this fantasy, I think because I conjured it when I was a teenager, I'm wearing a pencil skirt.

[B]

You've just stopped off at Express.

[A]

No, it's a. It's a really good pencil skirt.

[B]

A pencil skirt. I'm just telling you're a gallery like showroom girl. Anyway, sorry, please continue.

[A]

This wasn't a sexy outfit to me when I was a teenager. Yes, okay. I'm a high powered attorney, so is my husband.

[B]

In loads of student debt.

[A]

Well, now the idea of being an attorney, to me it's a little bit. It's slightly less glamorous. But in my head, when I was a teenager, being a high powered attorney was like very sexy, very powerful.

[B]

It is sexy and powerful. I will say it's both of those things. I just also know it to be a lot of other things that are, you know, correct.

[A]

Anyway, so I step out. I leave the museum. My husband is using the restroom. It's at this point, it is at night.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it's like kind of that gorgeous, glowy Parisian nightscape. I run into my ex, who's kind of just like listless, wandering around homeless in Paris.

[B]

He's unhoused.

[A]

He's not homeless. He's just. He's not doing great in life.

[B]

Strung out.

[A]

He's not strung out on drugs or anything. He's just walking. And I am more kind of like flouncing out of the museum.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

And I'm in my pencil skirt in.

[B]

My heels.

[A]

And I just glamorously walking down the sidewalk. Oh, we see each other.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Like, how's everyone who sees you first? I think he sees me.

[B]

Of course. Yeah. That's the way it has to go down.

[A]

There's like a brief exchange. But my husband is a quick restroom user, so he.

[B]

So he also. In every woman's fantasy, because no man uses the restroom quickly.

[A]

That is correct. Anyway, so he approach, he. He walks behind me. And somehow he doesn't see that I'm talking to someone. And he is just very much like so obsessed with me. He immediately grabs me around the waist.

[B]

From behind, nuzzles me.

[A]

And in this fantasy, he is Eric Bana.

[B]

So wait, is Eric Bana the one from Miss Congeniality? Or is it the guy from Dirty John?

[A]

It's the guy from Time Traveler's Wife. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, that's the guy from Dirty John. Yeah, it's yes.

[A]

Eric Bana in his, like, deep prime.

[B]

Because nobody is nuzzling as well as Eric Bana.

[A]

No one is just. No one. Five o' clock shadow muscles. There is just. There would be no one worse for your ecstasy that you had moved on with than fucking.

[B]

Than a B list actor. Like, I mean, he's definitely like A minus. B plus.

[A]

Listen, top tier in the looks department.

[B]

Okay, yeah, agreed.

[A]

I'm gonna pull up a picture.

[B]

Continue.

[A]

So anyway, he grabs me, my waist from behind. He's nuzzling into my neck. And then he looks kind of looks up.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I mean, that would be.

[B]

That would be. Nothing would be worse.

[A]

Nothing would be worse. I know. Yeah. And he's in like a full suit. Like, we're going to a really like, expensive, luxurious dinner late night.

[B]

And he loves a woman in a pencil skirt.

[A]

He does. And. And long story short, he looks up and then he realizes, oh, My gosh. I'm talking to some, I don't know, ne' er do.

[B]

Well, who's this like other male?

[A]

And then of course he's like super. He is very, very gentlemanly. Hello. You know, extends an arm. Somehow his arms are exposed as well.

[B]

So in the full suit, not only.

[A]

Is he in a suit, but my ex can see the arms are kind.

[B]

Of showing through the suit jacket.

[A]

Oh, it kind of ripped yet.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Um, and it's a really sad moment for him.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

He's crestfallen. Yeah. And then we have to go because.

[B]

We, we have to get to our dinner. Yep.

[A]

And that's that. So.

[B]

I mean, that's a, that's a great fantasy. I love that you're exiting the museum. I love these. Like, I think I painted a pretty pedestrian picture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I could have dreamed a little bit bigger. I think like. Yeah, aim higher with your fantasies. I think so. Wow. Eric Bana also. You've never talked about Eric Bana before. But like I didn't realize he was. He's top for you.

[A]

Time Traveler's Wife made a mark on me. I think I might reread it actually.

[B]

I wish the movie was better, frankly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the problem with Time Traveler's Wife is that it should have felt like. It should have felt as meaningful as about Time.

[A]

That is a good point. The movie itself is not as good.

[B]

As the book, but you know what is?

[A]

You know what does really slap? What?

[B]

The trailer. Amazing. I'm gonna revisit that.

[A]

Watch the trailer. Okay.

[B]

Okay, well, let's get out of our personal fantasies because people didn't come here to listen to that.

[A]

Well, I actually have another one I want to share.

[B]

Oh, great. Just kidding. You're like, I'm on a beach. I'm in a thong bikini. I'm self tanned.

[A]

Yeah, it's first day after self tanning.

[B]

Wait, can we, can we just quickly transition from the pencil skirt moment to the row sample sale? Yes, because I think it's a perfect segue.

[A]

There is no better protein powder on earth than Clean Simple Eats. They make the most incredible protein powder. I have been obsessed since college. Actually, Chandler, you introduced Clean Simple Eats to me at byu. I remember you telling me this protein powder is so good. It's true, you guys. If you mix one scoop of Clean Simple Leads protein powder with ice and water and blend it.

[B]

Or just a little bit of milk.

[A]

Little bit of milk is delicious. It tastes like a Wendy's Frosty. The chocolate brownie batter is exquisite. And it's 90 calories for 20 grams of clean grass fed whey protein.

[B]

They also have a ton of flavors. We love the chocolate and vanilla. Those are like our go tos. But they have over what, 20 flavors probably. And they're all delicious.

[A]

I'm obsessed with the mint chocolate cookie one. It tastes like a thin mint smoothie. Like a gorgeous thin mint delicious shake.

[B]

Yeah, I believe that. I mean I've been using all my clean some bleeds protein powders in my ninja creamy and it's like I'm making delicious ice cream every night.

[A]

You guys go to cleansandblades.com use code POPAPOLOGIST10 for 10% off your order from anything on the site. We cannot recommend clean simple eats protein powder enough.

[B]

They're the best.

[A]

You know what I've noticed? As soon as the weather even thinks about changing, my skin decides to completely malfunction. One cold breeze and suddenly I'm out here looking like a croissant, flaky and dry. So this year I finally got smart and switched to Dime. They've got everything. Skin care, beauty, body care and the viral fragrances that have taken over TikTok. All clean, effective and made without any of the harsh stuff I try to avoid. Right now I'm obsessed with their TBT cream. It's Dime's clean retinol alternative. Which means no scary ingredients. Just smoother, glowier skin that feels hydrated instead of greasy. And I swear my future self is going to thank me for starting now. And the best part, every Dime product is vegan, cruelty free and made with full transparency. No hidden junk, no no mysterious ingredients. Just good for you. Skin care that works. Head to Dime Beauty.com and get 20% off your first order with Code Podcast 20. That's Dime Beauty.com. 20% off with Code Podcast 20 or shop Dime at Amazon and Ulta. Your fall routine will thank you.

[B]

Can we just quickly transition from the pencil skirt moment to the Row sample sale? Yes. We got to talk about this.

[A]

I mean, we have not shared our thoughts with each other, so I don't know where you're going. Do you want to leave this off?

[B]

I'm in 25,000 doll with credit card debt after going to the Row sample sale. Okay. No, I, I want to discuss it with you because about like two weeks ago I seriously thought about going and I was looking into it because we were, we weren't going to be recording in person and I was like, I could probably swing this. I, I could stand in line. Yeah. And then I, I even Went so far as to like, kind of look at my schedule and see if I could do it. I then. And then I texted Courtney and I said, should I go to the row sample sale? Is it worth it? Courtney said no, but I was like, this is. You know, Courtney loves to buy the row full price. So, like, she's the wrong person to be talking to.

[A]

She's like, the line is a little long and I find that it's not. It's only like 75% more to just order it from the website.

[B]

It's just 75% more. And you know, my husband loves camping and I was going to give him the perfect opportunity to break out the tent. Yes. Camp outside and wait for the sale. Anyway, we've switched to your voice. Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm just saying, like, I thought this was gonna be a perfect opportunity to be like the camping wife I always said I was gonna be.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Um, so then imagine my satisfaction when the ro sample sale haul video started to hit the Internet.

[A]

I mean, are these bitches? Okay, I.

[B]

And I wanna say that this, the sample sale went on for like four or five days. So the ones like day one and two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Were okay. They were like mid fines. And then it just got progressively worse and I. I really had to think to myself as I was watching every single video, like, would I actually buy this ever?

[A]

No. I. I actually think instead of reading a childhood version of like the emperor who wears no clothes to snow on the beach someday, I'm just gonna play the rose sample sale tick tock videos for her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she can see Just the public delusions we can all get swept into.

[B]

I want to just issue a warning to everybody online. We have all been inflicted by an illness, by a mental sickness.

[A]

This is a mental contagion.

[B]

It's a mental contagion of the row pieces that look like express. Okay.

[A]

They look like it's oversized and Taylor.

[B]

It's oversized and Taylor, it's the. It's the section of H and M that is just meant for, like, if you have to go to a business meeting, like out of nowhere and you got to grab a blazer really quick. It's crazy.

[A]

No, Okay, I. I got to, I got to show one.

[B]

And everyone's like, my bank account is going to hate me for this and it's a gray blazer.

[A]

Especially because I think when you see. When you see the row on like normal girls in normal apartments, not on models in editorial photographs, these pieces look so completely pedestrian and common and uninteresting and Banal.

[B]

Well, this is what I want to say. I think that the row and I already know I'm going to get an earful from Courtney.

[A]

We're not being invited to the Row fashion.

[B]

No.

[A]

Next season.

[B]

I have. I have a row coat that I bought off Courtney that I think is spectacular. When it comes to some of the outerwear, they really do a fantastic job. It comes to some of the bags, Fantastic job. I would like some of the shoes. Some of the shoes. I would like to have a margot bag in my lifetime. I'd like to experience that joy when it comes to all of the just normal clothing. When it, like a. A shirt, a button up, a blazer, even a pant.

[A]

It all looks like Banana Republic. It's so unremarkable. I'm completely with you. A gorgeous margot bag and some of those supple leather colors is stunning.

[B]

There can be orgasmic. Orgasmic.

[A]

There can be really cool. I think also, like, beach bags. I think that they do certain things really well and the pieces are beautiful. Like, I have the row large N slash S tote.

[B]

We both say this as people. Well, you've bought stuff from the row full price. I haven't, but, like, I plan to buy from the. I. I plan to be a shopper.

[A]

We're not full haters.

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

But when it comes to just the clothing itself, most of it, especially the.

[B]

Clothing that's hitting the sample sale.

[A]

Yes. I mean, okay, I just. I was just laughing when I was watching this girl's reel.

[B]

I mean, the bags that people were getting at the sample sale were very mid.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

And those were, like, day one and two bags. It was crossbody bags.

[A]

Can you see this gray blazer that this girl bought for over a thousand dollars? For sure. Like, we should not be paying more than $150 for this.

[B]

Honestly, it's the gray sweater.

[A]

The sweater. This sweater looks thin and cheap.

[B]

Guys, as a person who's lived in New York, you can have a little bit of a psychosis come over you when you go into a sample sale.

[A]

Sorry. This white button down. This white button down. She's like, I just know I'm gonna wear this for the rest of my life.

[B]

It's what you tell yourself.

[A]

Okay. And then this black slip dress.

[B]

Thankfully, she was a little bit more self aware, and she was like, this doesn't make me look that great. I. She's kind of like a little disappointed in that purchase.

[A]

I mean, full express.

[B]

Full express.

[A]

You guys. I am for klempt. I want to Say what? My. My dad's favorite phrase, which is Get a grip.

[B]

Get a grip, Get a grip.

[A]

Girls, can you return to the Row sample sale?

[B]

No, of course not. And it's not like the prices are that.

[A]

That cheap. They're just.

[B]

Once again, we've been inflicted by a mental sickness. To where you think 75 off 5 grand is inexpensive?

[A]

Well, and here's the thing, Another reason why I think that some of the stuff is worth getting like a Margot bag is it's instantly recognizable.

[B]

Yeah. For.

[A]

By a lot of people. Okay. But a lot of that stuff, no one will know that you spent so much money. No. And obviously that's not. That shouldn't be important or whatever. But it is.

[B]

But it is. And. And honestly, if I'm wearing something by the row, I want it to have. I want it to look expensive at the very least. I don't need it to look like the row.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I need it to look expensive.

[A]

I actually, I went into the store and then we can get off this. But I went into the store because I kind of had a moment where I was feeling.

[B]

Trying to return things you bought at the sample sale?

[A]

No, I did not go to the sample.

[B]

I'm just kidding.

[A]

But I was feeling a little flush. And I also love a uniform. And I. And I had a moment of psychosis where I was like, what if I'm just a girl who just only wears the row?

[B]

Well, how many days ago was this?

[A]

This was like a month ago.

[B]

Okay. You spared me this in this monologue.

[A]

I didn't get. I didn't.

[B]

I wasn't on the train for this one.

[A]

And I went in and long story short, I like tried on a bunch of shirts, bunch of pants, bunch of sweaters. And I was just like, no one can tell me that this. I can't get this at Banana Republic. Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No one is looking at your sweater and they're being like the stitching, the hand stitching on this piece or whatever. So much of it just seemed so blah and normal to me that I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

[B]

I think really it comes down to like the shirts and the button ups. Because I will say like that the Ophelia sweater. Ophelia sweater is amazing. I mean, I have the Zara home dupe that I love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, there are, there are some great dupes, but some pieces are amazing and totally recognizable and I think they are worth it. But nothing that I saw from the sample sale fit that criteria.

[A]

So now that we will never be friends with Mary Kay, Ashley, I mean.

[B]

That was never going to happen or.

[A]

Get invited to, I don't know, anything cool with them and Andy Cohen in the Hamptons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's move forward.

[B]

Let's move on.

[A]

Let's move on. Okay, so there's a few pieces of. Maybe not a few pieces. I would say there's a lot of content in here that I would put under the category of men failing us. Okay. Men will fail you every time.

[B]

Men will fail you every time.

[A]

A delightful piece of wisdom my. Our father gave our little sister at her 22nd birthday dinner.

[B]

I think it was her 20th birthday dinner.

[A]

20Th. We all went around table giving her life advice.

[B]

Like, cherish it. Yeah.

[A]

Like, there was just so much positivity and real wisdom imparted. And then my dad pipes up with, get a. Get a job.

[B]

He has a very sober look on his face, and he says, get your education, finish school, because men will fail you every time.

[A]

You can't. You can't ever rely on a man. Men will fail you every time.

[B]

Verbatim, everybody. He said, men will fail you every time.

[A]

Like, talk about the tone shifting in the room.

[B]

Yeah. It was like, all right, are we getting dessert?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So anyway, moving on to men will fail you every time. That segment of the show. This might run a little long. Let's just breeze through.

[B]

Let's breeze through. And end. And end with the one I want.

[A]

To talk about the most wonderful. Okay. Lori Laughlin. Everyone apparently had to quiz dancers at a local strip club about her husband, Massimo Gianna. Lose Gianna, Lily. Massimo Giannouli's favorite strip club in a desperate attempt to save their marriage. So this is according to a family friend who apparently told Page Six, for years, Mossimo went to this club called Skin on Robertson in la. It was years ago, but Lori ended up going down there to talk to the women and find out what he was doing. She actually said, sat down with the strippers. This is after. You know, this comes days after John Stamos has publicly called Mossimo a terrible narcissist and saying that every hardship in Lori's life has been connected to him. And he said he will never talk to Mossimo again. So I think that things have been tumultuous for a long time.

[B]

I think that, yeah, he's been a shitty husband for a long time. I mean, I think I saw this in a comment, so I don't want to take credit, but I think if you are going to the strip club, to try to piece together what happened. You're not done. You are trying to salvage this. You're trying to. Where do you know? Where did the lies stop? And the truth. Where does the truth begin? It's really, really sad.

[A]

Call me a prude. I just don't think your husband should have a favorite strip club.

[B]

No, I don't think that makes you prudish at all. I think men should not be going to strip clubs basically, ever.

[A]

Basically ever.

[B]

I think you get like maybe three times in your life where it's a joke.

[A]

Yeah, it's a joke. I get it. For a bachelor party, like a r Experience, whatever. But if you were regularly going to strip. Going to strip clubs at all other than like a once every couple year novelty situation, even that. This is what I'm going to tell. If you are currently driving to a strip club to find out what your husband was doing, I'm going to say, especially if you're in California. If you're in California, do this actually. Just get on the 405 to the 5 south. Get off at Lake Forest and go to our dad's office. Okay. Who is a divorce attorney. Because you should be going to the local divorce attorney's office. Just cut to the chase, you know, And I think the writing is on the wall, ladies. Yeah.

[B]

I also just want to bring out the fact that he had a clothing line at Target. Did you know that?

[A]

I knew he was in fashion.

[B]

He had, like, a very successful line at Target called Mossimo and I. You will know the brand. It's not Mossimo Duty, but you'll recognize it.

[A]

I remember Mossimo from Target. Yeah.

[B]

Look at this logo.

[A]

Yeah, that's him.

[B]

Imagine my shock and horror when I realized I've owned some of his clothes.

[A]

Honestly, Chandler, you got to burn those. Those sartorial relics of this. This man's misdeeds.

[B]

Last thing about this, the prenup is ironclad.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. So she, like, will not be getting any more money than, like, what was originally agreed to.

[A]

That makes me really sad.

[B]

I know, right? Doesn't that, like, yuck. It doesn't matter about the infidelity or anything, which makes me feel kind of sick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, let's move on to the next man that's failed us. Hugh Jackman. Sutton Foster. They made their red carpet debut. I don't know about you, but I kind of feel like they already made their debut with their in and out drive through makeout.

[A]

Well, and they had a very public path walk where they both looked like they should be modeling for like Town and Country or some older person magazine. Yes. They made their red carpet debut. Yada, yada, yada. My feeling on this is, why is that necessary? Like, if you have you both cheated on your spouses to form this union, do you need to be public facing in this way? Like, can't you just be a couple but not walk red carpets together and not kind of be so grossly, I don't know, like in people's faces with this?

[B]

No, they are fully beginning their public rehabilitation. But public image rehabilitation.

[A]

Think about Taylor and Joe, right? Like, they never walked a red carpet together. Plenty of celebrities have relationships where like, Gwyneth and Chris Martin never walked red carpets together. Just. Just keep it fucking private is my opinion.

[B]

I totally agree with you. I just think, like, Hugh Jackman loves a pap walk. Think about how many pap walks. Think about how many pap walks we've seen with him. Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively out getting coffee. And Tribeca.

[A]

Right, just with background.

[B]

There is an interesting note here.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's a photo of them from the 2014 Tonys where they are dancing. There's a very intense gaze happening and chemistry that you can feel from this picture. I. I think it's pretty sad that this crush might have started a long time ago and that he's always been secretly pining for her.

[A]

Or, you know, maybe we question the timeline. When did this really begin?

[B]

Yeah. Have you seen the guy, Joey Moroff, who imitates Hugh Jackman?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, well, this is the only Hugh Jackman I care to hear from ever again. Okay, I'm gonna play a video for you. Okay. So his bit is that he. He does, you know, if Hugh Jackman were to sing this song. So this is the song Birthday Sex. This is his, his Hugh Jackman rendition.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's your birthday. So I saw all over bread.

[A]

24601 sip Ryan Reynolds, as we sing from now on. Feels good, but I am herald head. That is so funny. You know, I had forgotten that he was in Les Mis, so it was taking me a minute to. To get there, to get there. But once I got there, that, that really.

[B]

Anyway, that's the only Hugh Jackman I care about.

[A]

Yeah, truly. What's his handle?

[B]

Joey Moff.

[A]

Molof. How do you spell that?

[B]

M O L O, F. I believe.

[A]

Okay, great. Okay. Another piece of news. Sophie Turner and Chris Martin apparently have gone on a date.

[B]

I'm here for this. This is not in the men will fail you every time category.

[A]

For me, I agree I think Gwyneth peaced out on Chris.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That might have been a Women will fail you sometimes.

[A]

I don't know about that, because I actually don't think.

[B]

You don't believe there's any infidelity.

[A]

I really don't.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think that it just was a marriage that was not working. Okay. I stay on my queen Gwen.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Gwen. Do you know her name is not Gwen? It's Gwen. Gwyneth. Not Gwyneth. That's a mispronunciation.

[B]

Gwyneth.

[A]

Gwyneth, yes. We need to stand corrected.

[B]

On this podcast, she says, I'm Gwyneth Paltrow.

[A]

Gwyneth Paltrow, not Gwyneth.

[B]

Okay, continue. Not important.

[A]

I know. It's like we say two sentences about other people. We go on to talk about Gwyneth Paltrow. Anyway. Yes. So Sophie, apparently, her and her aristocratic boyfriend, they were at a wedding. They were, like, making out and fighting.

[B]

Wait, I didn't. I didn't see the part about them making out. I just saw that they were bickering. At a high society wedding.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They were at a wedding with Prince Andrew and they were bickering.

[A]

No, I'm just.

[B]

Just teasing them about high society weddings.

[A]

Well, apparently, they have broken up, and a week later, she's on a date with Chris Martin, and a video resurfaced of her fangirling over Chris Martin. I kind of feel like, ambivalent about this. Like a. I think it's probably really fun for her if she's a Coldplay fan girl. Like, it's got to be pretty hot to hook up with Chris Martin.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

He's still looking cute. Yeah. The age discrepancy. I don't love it. I really don't love it for Apple because Apple is not that much younger than Sophie.

[B]

Sophie Turner is eight years older than her.

[A]

It's. It's a little too close for comfort. I think that if you're a man wanting to date younger, I just think that you should try to have a three in. In the. As the first digit. Okay. Like, it would be so much better if she was 31 than 29.

[B]

I just can't wait for the Goop podcast where they unpack and discuss why it can actually be revolutionary to date someone as young as your daughter.

[A]

I don't think that Gwyneth. Gwyneth is ever going to, you know, have that podcast. I mean, did you see her episode with Brad?

[B]

I caught clips of it. I don't know why I didn't watch it. I think that it's a little.

[A]

It was a little sleepy for me.

[B]

Yeah. I think it seemed a little sleepy. And it's just out of character for me because usually that would be like. Even if it was sleepy, like bomb for my soul.

[A]

They were talking a lot about his Netflix series where he interviews people, and then they. The air of the interviews after their death.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would have preferred if they had gotten into how they fell in love. Her favorite caption.

[B]

Boyfriend breakfast.

[A]

Boyfriend breakfast. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Okay, back to the matter at hand.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, well, I actually think that's all I have to say about these two. Do you have more to say?

[B]

Not a ton. Although I'm. I'm here for it.

[A]

You are here for it. Like you ship them.

[B]

I should do. You know, we're looking at a sad news cycle right now when it comes to men.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that this does not feel completely evil. So I'm just trying to find light where there could be a little bit of light in this darkness.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, love and light to. To those two. I mean.

[B]

I mean, I actually have a confession, though, to make.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So you know how that video surfaced of Apple Martin singing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, the song got released on Spotify today.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I quite like the song.

[A]

Is it her song?

[B]

I don't. I know. It's with another. What's with a band? I don't know if she wrote it, but she's singing on it. I like the song Nail Me to the Cross. Like Vicki Gumbelson. It's a good song. It's. It's got kind of like a Mazzy Star feel to it. The issue is that on the actual video that Surf it. That her voice is. Her voice does not sound good. But now that it's gone through the, you know, the production process, I'm here for it. I like it.

[A]

I.

[B]

She might be a bully, but I like her voice on the song.

[A]

You like her fake voice on the. On the.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Version on Spotify?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Well, fair. I will say our. Our one and true. You know, our one and only. Taylor has had moments where her voice has sounded worse than others. So maybe. Maybe get some vocal coaching.

[B]

She could definitely get some vocal coaching. I'm into the song. I'm into the song.

[A]

Let's chat about another couple that is making a different kind of red carpet debut. If there is one thing that I post about and get so many responses, Chandler, it's early bird CBD gummies. Whenever I share them on our stories, invariably multiple people will Respond and say thank you for introducing to me. These are life changing. Whatever magical concoction they have going on in these gummies is a secret elixir that truly it puts me back to sleep.

[B]

If I can't sleep.

[A]

It helps me enjoy a meal a little more.

[B]

It helps.

[A]

It makes shows funnier. It makes conversation a little funnier. Have an early bird CBD before going to a party with people you don't really want to talk to. Highly recommend.

[B]

Highly, highly recommend. I always tell people, if you're new to early bird cbd, start with a.

[A]

Half of a gummy before you, you.

[B]

Know, are about to turn in and just see how you feel.

[A]

Also, I always take half and I swear a single bottle will last me four or five months.

[B]

So long. Yeah, so long.

[A]

It's a great value.

[B]

And if you're skeptical, okay, you can get one of the travel size packs that comes with I believe like three to four gummies. Okay.

[A]

For literally 11.

[B]

With our code, you guys, you can get a cocktail east, west, south of the Mississippi for that price.

[A]

You guys go to oybirdcbd.com use code POPAPOLOGIST for 20 off your order and we'll see you in the DMS.

[B]

See you there.

[A]

You know that fun stage of adulthood where every random ache makes you wonder if you're falling apart or just dehydrated? Let's say I've hit that moment and that is why I've chosen Function Health. It's the only platform that gives me data most people never get so I can actually see what's going on in my body instead of guessing. I have some chronic health issues and a doctor prescribed me some medication and to be honest with you, I wasn't sure if it was the right amount because I felt no different after a couple months of consistently taking this medication. Medication. When I got my blood redrawn and saw that the levels that needed to go up went up and the levels that needed to go down went down, I cannot begin to describe how satisfying it was to see that actually taking what I needed to take was helping me on the inside. Even if psychologically I didn't feel like anything really had changed. That is why I think getting access to technically testing biomarkers, your hormones, toxins, heart health, inflammation, stress, all of it. That is something you can do in Function Health. Learn more and join Using our link Function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body and my first a thousand listeners get a hundred dollar credit toward their membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com popapologists to use gift code pop apologist100 to sign up to own your health. Let's chat about another couple that is making a different kind of red carpet debut. They have been officially, you know, papped and out arm in arm. They were coming out of the show Crazy Horse in Paris, which is a very revealing.

[B]

So how many, how many times can a man go to Crazy Horse? In your, in your book? Crazy Horse is like a strip club.

[A]

It's not a strip club.

[B]

It's a burlesque show.

[A]

So. I have been to Crazy Horse.

[B]

Yeah, I know. You never let me forget.

[A]

It's actually like a very artistic, beautiful experience. Okay.

[B]

I'll take your word for it.

[A]

The women do end up topless, but fallen world. Yeah, we are living in a fallen world. I will say though, the dances themselves, they're just like very artistic. The, the light, the lighting, it's very cool.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it's very emotional.

[B]

I know. It's like a thing to do in Paris.

[A]

Yeah, it's a fun thing to do. I was a little surprised TBH though because it is a little bit of like an illicit activ. So I wasn't quite surprised that they decided to publicly make their debut coming out of that.

[B]

I mean, we saw like the, the kiss on the yacht. Yeah, they are.

[A]

They're hot and heavy.

[B]

They're hot and heavy. And like he's no longer a politician.

[A]

No. So he's just ready to have some fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I feel like if Katy Perry had to go from having a tour that was just widely ridiculed on the Internet and having the space disaster. Okay. Her short lived career as an astronaut went up in flames. And I think that she really got. She really caught the Internet scorn for a while there. I like. Well. And then also Orlando Bloom and her breakup. Okay. She loses her husband and the father of her child.

[B]

Are they married?

[A]

I think they were married. Maybe they were not. Whatever. Her long term partner, the father.

[B]

10 years. I think that they were together father for child.

[A]

I would consider that to be even more serious than someone you're married to.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I love this as a rebound for her. This is hot. This is a ex world leader.

[B]

Well, this is who we like wanted to see Kim with. Yes.

[A]

Kim and Taylor. We wanted to see them with like very serious. Either a politician, like a very. Not just like a senator or something. We want to see them with a top world leader. Her or Taylor.

[B]

Can I just say I love Katy Perry in this dress that she's in. She looks stunning anytime she's not wearing a cupcake titty bra. Yeah, I love to see it. I love to see her in sleek lines, high fashion. She's beautiful. She looks great.

[A]

She's looking better than ever. I think that they are actually a very cute couple and I think it's fun. You know, it.

[B]

While we didn't see it coming, that doesn't mean we can't cheer it on. Absolutely.

[A]

And I want to say as well, you guys, Chandler and I are 0% tuned in to Canadian politics.

[B]

Oh, or off. You're issuing a disclaimer. Disclaimer. I have no clue.

[A]

We have no idea. We know that a lot of Canadians did not like him. That's why he was ousted. To any Canadian listeners, we apologize for shipping Katie and Justin. We are sorry. Yeah. And we might do a black box apology on Instagram. Yeah.

[B]

There might be a notes app situation happening.

[A]

So. Okay.

[B]

Well, now that that's done and dusted in the spirit of a woman looking sexy. Looking sexy online, showing it off, let's talk about Nara Smith.

[A]

Let's discuss. So Nara Smith has posted on Instagram. Okay.

[B]

She is 14 days, I think, post baby. Post having her baby. And she posted a photo where she's wearing kind of like low slung pants. And it is just a full ab picture, full stomach picture, I should say. And she's holding her baby.

[A]

So I'm gonna pull up the caption. It's very much like a. It's definitely a thirst trap. I love to be real. It's definitely a thirst trap. And she posts in the caption is. Women's bodies are pure magic, divinely designed to create, grow and nurture life. We become the bridge between heaven and earth, guiding life into this world. With that, our bodies transform and stretch. I used to feel the need to bend and force it back into how it used to look, only to realize that it has been home to four other bodies. The final stage is filled with grace and slowing down.

[B]

That was her caption on the photo.

[A]

This is.

[B]

Don't package your thirst trap to me as, as a sermon about like women's bodies and body acceptance, body positivity.

[A]

That's where I, I think that is where I. In the words of Taylor Swift, you're losing me. Like, that is.

[B]

I can't find a pulse.

[A]

No, fully. Because it's like I kind of, I think about. I post thirst traps. You post thirst traps. We all do.

[B]

We all do. I've got one in the hopper. Maybe gonna go live today, which I.

[A]

Cannot Wait to see. So how am I supposed to tell a woman who's just birthed an actual human that, oh, wait, sorry, you can't post a thirst trap to me. I feel like that is ridiculous. Right? What I don't like is when it's like when it's packaged in this messaging that's supposed to be all, like, virtuous, when they actually just know they look really hot and good.

[B]

It's. They want the credit for being hot and also the credit of being someone who is evolved. Evolved. Insecure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not that she doesn't feel that way at times. I think when you're an influencer online, it comes with a responsibility a little bit to be sensitive and to try to not be tone deaf.

[A]

And realistically posting a pic of yourself looking snatched on fleek, whatever, six months a year after giving birth, like, that is so different than four weeks after when you.

[B]

No, two weeks.

[A]

Okay, two weeks.

[B]

I don't know. I guess maybe it's. Maybe it's tomato, tomato, four, 14 days a month.

[A]

When you just know that you have a lot of postpartum mothers watching you, following you, who you're going to make them feel bad about themselves. I just. I do think there's a difference there.

[B]

There's a massive difference between one month and six months. Yeah. Postpartum, posting a photo of your very flat stomach. I thought this comment was very astute. Okay, I'm gonna read it. It's from someone named holiday things 1991. They said this. And I'm not saying I agree with every single part of this, but. But I do agree with some of it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This kind of stuff is intentional. Have you seen the photo? Do you know her? She is a trad wife cosplayer that always dresses in modest and elegant clothes that don't expose her abdomen. I can be wrong, but I'm almost 99 sure from what I've seen. Then two weeks postpartum, she deliberately chooses a small tank top showing her belly out of all the comfy and modest clothes. Why? To give a statement. I am better. I am better than you other people. Her whole videos are creating something unattainable. Cooking from scratch. Butter, flour, sunscreen, sugar, chocolate, God knows what else, while dressing in designer clothes and making no mess. So this picture is very on brand to her. I thought that comment about, like, the way she typically dresses versus this photo was very true.

[A]

That point is true. I also think though that, like, this is an influencer's job, right? It's to get attention.

[B]

It's To.

[A]

It's to get engagement. It's to get eyeballs. And Nara clearly knew this was going to break the Internet on some level, and it. And it did. We're talking about it. It's working. So on some level, it's like, is. Is it worth it?

[B]

I just know almost firsthand how certain influencers are very down for the rage bait.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is a part of their strategy. And so I am just a little bit skeptical of the intentions here. And she knows exactly what she's doing. Like you said, we're here talking about it. And she loses me as, like, somebody that I can look up to or someone that I can really care about when she plays into this.

[A]

Well, because I think it just. It just makes her seem like. It just. It's just so unlikable.

[B]

It's so unlikable.

[A]

I want you. I want other postpartum moms to feel bad about themselves.

[B]

I want you to talk about me. No matter what, love me or hate me, I want you to talk about me.

[A]

I had the same reaction when Hannah Neeleman did her try on, like, trying on outfits for her pageant, and she very deliberately turned to the side and to show that, you know, she was fitting into small pants basically a week after giving birth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was deliber. It. It was in order to send a message that she had snapped back. And again, it just. It's. It goes back to, okay, you would rather send a. A message about how hot you are and make a bunch of vulnerable postpartum mothers feel bad about themselves. Like that to you, is a message you want to send. Like that.

[B]

That's the message you want to prioritize. Yeah, that.

[A]

That just says something.

[B]

Well, and it's just. It's so classic. I mean, it reminds me of the Emrata excuse, the docket people were writing in saying that. But, you know, Emrata almost like, you know what you get. You know what you're getting with her. And now I feel like we used to live in the world of just emeratas, and now we're in the Nara Smith world, and I think it's more insidious.

[A]

Yeah. Well, with Emrata, I think she owns being just super vain.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Totally. I think with Nara and with Hannah, it is kind of.

[B]

It's like a.

[A]

It's very clear, cloaked narcissism.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I will say, I know it's a little bit pot calling the kettle black, because I certainly post hot photos on Instagram. I certainly do.

[B]

You're not posting hot photos of yourself in a thong bikini on Guana island and then writing a three paragraph long caption about how insecure and brave this is of you. Yeah, I'm sorry.

[A]

There is a difference. And it isn't immediately postpartum where, you know, I do think that that is a specific time where a lot of women are super vulnerable. And you know that those vulnerable women are going to be comparing themselves to you.

[B]

You know what I thought about when I saw this?

[A]

What?

[B]

I just thought about how much I love Morgan Stewart. Because I just remember she did a Q A after, like, she kind of had two babies back to back. I don't think it was intentional to have, like, I think she literally got pregnant less than a year after having her first baby and somebody asked her, you know, like, how did you get your body back? Whatever. Those questions that I think, like, we shame ourselves for wanting to know the answer to, but we all want to know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think she just, like, posted a picture of, like, dinner and she was like, it's been nothing but salmon and spinach for the last, like, six months.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Call that toxic. Whatever. I just appreciate the honesty of someone saying, I'm really disciplined right now.

[A]

Right. Like, this is taking real.

[B]

This is taking real work. Yeah. Versus acting like they don't even think about it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

For sure. Anyway.

[A]

Okay, well, let's move on because I want to get into the crazy allegations against Prince Andrew.

[B]

This episode of Pop Apologists is brought to you by booking.com booking.com is such a popular app amongst my traveler friends. And honestly, if you have a vacation rental, this is the site for you. Since 2010, Booking.com has helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. And let me just emphasize that I said billion with a bag. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? Your rental property will be viewed by a massive global audience of unique travelers. Whether your rental is ideal for the solo traveler, big families, or just some friends getting together, you can register your property in as little as 15 minutes. And nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to bookings.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking.com let's.

[A]

Be honest, we all blame the dog or the kids for those mysterious stains that show up in our home, whether it's on the carpet, the couch or the bed. But at this point, given that I don't have a dog or any kids, I need to take accountability for the mysterious stains emerging in my home. Enter the green mitt kit from Clean Safe Products, AKA my secret weapon for saving fabrics that deserve better. It's genuinely so easy to use. Spray the solution, wipe, rinse the mitt, repeat. If you can clean a kitchen counter, you can clean your carpet. Carpet. It works on everything. Rugs, car seats, couches, delicate upholstery, even those dry clean only materials that stress everyone out you can use it on. And because it's made with just three ingredients and no soap, there's no sticky residue or chemical smell. My rug looks like new again and I didn't have to panic clean before guests came over. Try it risk free. Clean Safe products offers a 30 day money back guarantee. No questions asked. Go to cleansafeproducts.com pop now to get 15 off the green mitt kit. That's cleansafproducts.com pop for 15 off the world's easiest soft surface cleaning solution. I want to get into the crazy allegations against Prince Andrew. Disclaimer. We're about to discuss Jeff Repstein and Prince Andrew. And so this is going to involve discussions of sexual assault, rape of minors. Really horrific stuff. So if you want to just skip ahead, we do get into the Lily Allen and David Harbour situation, which is.

[B]

Crazy and you're not going to want.

[A]

To miss that part of the episode.

[B]

But totally understand if you want to skip this segment.

[A]

Okay, so these allegations against Prince Andrew are absolutely insane. The details that are emerging and it makes total sense why the monarchy, why King Charles is probably losing a shit. So in Virginia Guthrie's book and the trigger warning, this is describing, not even sexual assault is describing like rape of minors. Yeah, but basically she describes, you know, her encounters with Prince Andrew.

[B]

He says to Virginia, he says after guessing her age correctly, he says, my daughters are just a little younger than you. And then Ghislaine makes the joke. I guess we will need to trade her in soon.

[A]

And she's 17, so clearly the, you know, the preferred female was literally not even 18.

[B]

Underage. Completely underage.

[A]

Very underage. If 17 is getting a little old, there's also just, I gotta say, a little unhinged. Like, I look at photos of myself at 17.

[B]

Well, you. It's a sickness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's.

[A]

It's so weird.

[B]

Like, now you.

[A]

We.

[B]

You and I would encounter a teenager, and it's a sickness to be attracted to that. Yes. As an older person.

[A]

Right. It's a perversion.

[B]

It's a perversion.

[A]

Deep perversion. And anyway, so not only does she describe, like, sexual encounters with. With him and her, but then also she describes how he and Epstein had sex with her and eight other girls. Okay. Eight other girls under 18. And how most of them couldn't speak English. And how Epstein laughed, that those were, like, the easiest to deal with.

[B]

Essentially the easiest girls to get along.

[A]

With because they didn't know how to even, like, communicate. Did you actually ever hear Sam Harris talk about this? So Sam Harris is one of my favorite podcasters. Everyone, if you. If anyone listens to Making Sense, I'm sure a lot of people do. And anyway, he describes how he met Epstein.

[B]

Oh, no way. Yeah.

[A]

And he said that Epstein had what looked like a very young Asian girl on his knee the whole time. And he said, the way. He said basically that he was just like, bouncing her like she was like a toy for. Throughout the entirety of the dinner. Okay. And he said that the delta between how he thought he was coming across, which was like, cool guy or cool whatever. The delta between that and how he actually was coming across, which was just like, a total sleazebag, disgusting person. You would honestly never want to have anything to do with personal, criminal. Professionally. A criminal was just so severe. And he just said it was such an interesting kind of a thing to witness. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, that's kind of an aside, but. So all these crazy allegations are coming out, or.

[B]

I mean, is it worth reading some of the excerpts?

[A]

I mean. Yeah, go for it.

[B]

So before I release, I just want to say that I have struggled with whether or not I even want to read this book.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because it is so sickening. I mean, I literally feel nauseous right now knowing I need to read this. But then I think about it almost invalidates the experience if you just fully turn away from it. And I. I don't want to fill my mind with things like this, but the experiences are so horrific, and they went just completely untold. And it was just a big secret that everybody kept for so long that.

[A]

I feel like these victims deserve to have their stories heard.

[B]

The people need to feel a little bit of that sickness in their stomach over the horrendous crime so that we do not forget.

[A]

Well, and because I think that the only thing that will actually bring about some sort of justice, any form of it, nothing is going to bring Virginia back and make her life okay. And. But the only thing that's going to bring some modicum of justice for these victims is outrage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And public pressure.

[B]

And the fact that Prince Andrew is now just like a little bit shamed and he plays video games all day like this man belongs in jail.

[A]

Yes, completely.

[B]

And I think once again, I will get into reading some of these excerpts. I, after reading this, if the Royal family does not do anything more, if he honestly, if he is not like prosecuted like they all deserve to be stripped of their titles.

[A]

It just should be.

[B]

They should, they should all crumbling down. It should all like burn it to the ground.

[A]

Because you know what? Honestly, it's like Prince Andrew, he is just the tip of the iceberg of the option.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And guess what? This family has been doing crazy for generations.

[B]

Forever. Yes. And in the fact that like, this person will just get to like now live a quiet life.

[A]

Right. So I guess the King, if they want him out of Royal Lodge because he has an 80 year lease, they have to pay him, literally put him in jail.

[B]

Do you have to pay him if you put him in jail?

[A]

Well, that's what a lot of people are fighting for right now is they want the statue of limitations, all the, all of the statute of limitations that basically prevent victims from being able to prosecute their perpetrators. They want those to be eliminated because the average age where they say victims of sexual crimes can basically like even mentally come to a place where they could even confront their accuser is 40.

[B]

And at that point it's, it's like too late.

[A]

It's too late.

[B]

Yeah. So many things I want to say about that alone because, you know, there's no, it's not like your trauma on this runs out. It's not like you just get over it after that many years. You shouldn't prosecute them. It's like that. I mean, Virginia took her own life.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right. Okay, so I'm. I'm gonna just, I'll just read a few of these excerpts. The first one says, in my years with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, they lent me out to scores of wealthy, powerful people. I was habitually used and humiliated and in some instance, and in some instances choked, beaten and bloodied. I believed, I believed that I might die a sex slave. Another quote. Prince Andrew was particularly attentive to my feet, caressing my toes and licking my arches. The next morning, Ghislaine Maxwell told me, you did well. The prince had fun. Jeffrey Epstein would give me $15,000 for servicing the man the tabloids called Randy Andy. Another excerpt. Epstein, Andy and approximately eight other young girls and I had sex together. The other girls all appeared to be under the age of 18 and didn't really speak English. Epstein laughed about how they couldn't really communicate, saying they are the easiest girls to get along with. Just a couple more here. Initially, the prince made it difficult for my lawyers to serve him with papers. Fleeing to Queen Elizabeth's Balmoral castle in Scotland and hiding behind its well guarded gate, I agreed to a one year gag order which seemed important to the prince because it ensured his mother's Platinum Jubilee would not be tarnished any more than it already had been. The Platinum Jubilee, Lauren.

[A]

I mean, we're Americans. We don't give two about the Platinum Jubilee. But I just kind of think that like maybe Virginia Guthrie's story and what happened to her is more important.

[B]

I'm ready for another revolutionary war.

[A]

Literally. I, I think, I think it's time to go to war with the British again.

[B]

Chandler, we're making jokes, but I think that is just because we are. We don't know how to. There's no way to process this. And I think like the fact that Epstein is no longer here and it just feels like who is going to pay for these crimes besides the victims themselves?

[A]

No, I, I will say I am heartened to hear that. I guess Prince William takes a harder line against this than King Charles and wants like Andrew just completely, completely out of the Royal family. He is putting the biggest pressure to have him out of Royal Lodge. I don't know if that's really just self preservation.

[B]

Yeah, it's like a harder line. That's not, that's not enough.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I'm, I'm trying not to like say he should be drawn and quartered.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

So anyway, I just, I'm full of rage today. And I actually said this this week. I said I just need to make a list in my phone of men that I believe are good so I can just like refer back to it. Yeah, I just need to think about Tom Hanks right now. Yeah, I just need a couple minutes to think about Tom Hanks and Tim McGraw. Tim McGraw. Tom Hanks.

[A]

You know, you know what? Eric Bana. Eric Bana is apparently a good family man.

[B]

Eric Bana, Tom Hanks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was the other one? Tim McGraw. Anyway, everybody we can think of, those are the three we can think of.

[A]

I do really believe, I will say. And this kind of segues into our next topic. I don't. I do not hold the belief that every man is like this. Like all men. Just. If they could, this is what they would do. I just think some men are deeply perverted, actually, and they are sex addicts. They can't be helped. Testosterone is a hell of a drug, and they disregard any sense of morality to get their jollies off, as we call it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And those people should. They should meet, you know, Lady Justice.

[B]

I hope they do.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I don't. I don't believe that every guy is like this. I just know so many men who are great men, who don't have this compulsion, who don't have the compulsion to cheat, who don't. Who aren't secretly gross. And I just want to like us in that fact.

[B]

I also believe that. I think that this week feels especially heavy. I think just the Prince Andrew stuff feels like a new level of. Of perversion and evil. And it's just hard. It's hard to, like, come back from that with, like, you know, any type of faith in. In anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know. Once again, I'm gonna go spend some time thinking about Rita Wilson and Tom Hanks. Please do.

[A]

Okay, well, let's move on, because really, the meat of what we wanted to get into today is West End Girl by Lily Allen. I mean, this. First of all, this album itself is so good.

[B]

It's so good. Were you a Lily Allen fan before this?

[A]

Honestly, I think Lily Allen was a little before my time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I didn't know that much about her, but I'm a Lily Allen girl now.

[B]

I mean, so I love Lily Allen. Yeah. I'm not. I don't know every single song of hers, but I know a song or two off of every album. I would say, yeah, Yeah. I really like her music. I love her voice. And so when this album came out and I saw that it was called West End Girl, and I just started to do my first listen through and heard some of the tales, I think I. I just. I. I ride for her beyond belief now. I mean, this feels like another lemonade, you know, where it's like no stone unturned. I am not keeping your secrets.

[A]

She's not absorbing in her own words any of his shame. So basically, everyone, if you have not listened, this album is essentially an audiobook. It's an audiobook of their breakup there. It's not like a Taylor Swift Album where there's Easter eggs and metaphors and, you know, you kind of have to piece together what happened in certain places. Not even close. This is literally a narrative audio audiobook music version of this betrayal by David Harbour.

[B]

Let me paint a picture for everybody. David Harbour and her got married in 2020. I think they met a couple years before that. They met on Raya. They got married in 2020. She has two daughters with Sam Cooper, her previous husband. Lily Allen has a complicated past. I just want to get. Get that out, you know, get that out right out of the gate. She has cheated on partners in the past. She is now sober. She had a pretty awful 20s, I think, with just like. With her own struggles with, you know, drugs and whatnot and alcohol. And she is now sober. And I believe she has done the work on, you know, changing her life and changing her. Her path. So her and David get married in 2020. They then relocate to Brooklyn to. Literally my neighborhood. Yeah. From London. So she moves her. Her whole family or her daughters, and they begin their new life as like a. As a blended family, I guess. He doesn't have any kids, but he's like the stepdad. And it's very clear throughout the songs that he was a very central part of the girl's life. You know, like, he's referred to as Daddy, even, and, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, back to the album. We learn through the course of these songs that everything started to disintegrate when he wanted to have an open relationship.

[A]

Yeah. So basically she. She gets cast in a play in London. So she goes and takes the play and she gets a phone call from.

[B]

Him, which she, like, produces in this album, which is a part of the frame of her song.

[A]

She reenacts.

[B]

Yeah, the.

[A]

This first song starts out with, like, Everything is so great. We're getting this beautiful home, you know, life is so beautiful. I'm getting cast in a play. And then the song ends with him a. Basically kind of like making her feel like about herself with the role she's got. Well, and then it also ends with him calling her and basically saying that he wants to have an open relationship. So they set some parameters.

[B]

Yep. Which she gets into in one of the other songs. You know, it had to be with strangers. There had to be payment, you know, you had to be discreet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I just want to go back to the very first song where she talks about uprooting their. Their daughters and moving them here.

[A]

I have been shopping on Revolve since I was a teenager and it is such A dream come true that they are now sponsoring the show. This is what I love about Revolve. They have incredible curated sections of the website where I can find exactly what's trending. And also the prices are really, really reasonable. You can find items that are super chic on trend. You know you're gonna have that it girl look for a very good price. Revolve is the platform for me. Whether I need a last minute outfit for a night out, something elegant for a wedding, or an easy daytime out look that still feels polished, I always end up on Revolve. They carry over 1200 brands and 100,000 styles. They have Helsa, lovers and friends, Amanda, Upper a Goldie, basically all of the wardrobe staples we're looking for live on Revolve. I actually found the black halter dress that I wore in my engagement photos on Revolve for $120. And I said, still, wear that dress to weddings. And I get so many compliments. Whether it's a weekend away or a big night out or just a little style refresh, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to Revolve.com pop, shop my edit and take 15 off your first order with code POP. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's Revolve.com pop to shop my favorites and get 15 off your first order with code POP. Offer ends November 12th. So happy shopping.

[B]

I just want to go back to the very first song where she talks about uprooting their. Their daughters and, and moving them here. She. She talks about how, I mean, she's so raw. That's been one of her strengths forever. But she talks about how she couldn't really afford. Like she could have never afforded this life. Yeah. But she was like taking this risk. They were all in together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so when then he goes and blows it up and we learn she goes through his text messages and she's. She even says in the album, who's Madeline? Well, which is a pseudonym.

[A]

So basically she. He is showing her a photo on Instagram and she says it was the way that he grabbed her. His phone out of her hand that made her realize like there's something on his phone she didn't want me to see.

[B]

God bless me to see. God bless a woman's intuition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I.

[A]

But I do think that's a very clear smoking gun if your husband or partner is uncomfortable with you with their phone. Honestly, it's just call her dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's over.

[B]

Get off it. Whatever. Lake Forest Drive. Yeah. So she talks about kind of uncovering this and how he moved the goalposts. And, you know, if it was just about sex, she wouldn't have been as upset because they were in this arrangement.

[A]

She figures out on the phone while reading his text messages that it was not something where he was just paying for sex because that's what. Something he needed to do. She says that she realizes he's basically having a relationship with someone else. Yeah. And they're playing tennis together. And, like, you know, she says, I would. If it had just been sex, I wouldn't have been jealous. But you're playing tennis. Yeah. And it's very clear. It's very clear that he's actually having a relationship and cheating on her. And I think. And I think the general suspicion.

[B]

What's.

[A]

What's. What's implied is that he basically calls her to have an open relationship, to kind of. To basically. Probably because he was already cheating on her.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And to have the lines blurred, essentially.

[B]

The crazy thing is that we have some, like, historical evidence of. Of this unfolding, because we have. There. We have, like, an interview of them when she's, like, nominated for an award in London. It's a very odd interview where he kind of, like. He makes a joke about. He says, you know, she's being interviewed. And then he makes the joke saying, I've been in hundreds of thousands of plays, and I've never once been recognized, but congratulations, darling. And it's super odd.

[A]

Interesting. He's jealous.

[B]

Oh, 100%. I mean, so in. In West End, girl, there's a lyric that says, you know, I told you about the play, and you said, you know, you have to audition. Right.

[A]

Even though she had already gotten the part. Yeah.

[B]

And she thought that was so strange. You know, you can just. I can just hear that. Oh, you know you're gonna have to audition, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, just undermining.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that the word? Undermining?

[A]

Trying to undercut.

[B]

Under. Exactly. Undercut. So then we also have their Architectural Digest, which came out in 2023, which is kind of, I think, where things really hit the skids. And their Architectural Digest. I remember watching it, and it's. I think their house is beautiful. It's not. Not exactly my taste, but it's very cool. It's very, very cool. Yeah. And she literally mentions, like, the interior designer in the. In West End, girl. She's like, Billy Cotton, you know, got it all done or whatever.

[A]

Well, the way that the Architectural Digest video opens up Is so wild now looking back because he's like, hey, he's making this joke. He makes this joke basically that he's acting like a girl is there who he like once hooked up with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's like, hey, I have a family now. I have kids. I have a wife. Like, it's kind of awkward, but you look actually pretty good. Do you want to come in?

[B]

Like, it's.

[A]

It's so gross.

[B]

It's so skeezy. And I think I remember thinking it was like, kind of funny.

[A]

Yeah, at first.

[B]

But then you. When you watch the whole 10 minute video or whatever, which I made Ben watch last night with me. He's the star of the show. He wants to be the star. He cannot like, really let her be the star at all. And her body language is very telling. She kind of is like constantly has her arms crossed.

[A]

She's like cowering.

[B]

Yeah, she's cowering. She is. I mean, not only she's a small person and he's a tall person, but she looks quite nervous to him. And so it's just fascinating knowing what was happening behind the scenes. And so sad.

[A]

I mean, it's so sad. The album itself, though, I think that it really goes through, like the process of a. Agreeing to this non monogamy situation, but not wanting to and then discovering actually your husband's cheating and then, you know, going to his apartment and finding like a bunch of disgusting relics of his debauchery.

[B]

I mean, her song, it's called Palace.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The chorus is like, I thought this was a dojo. Which is in reference to the fact that he, like, really like martial arts. So I think she thought it was just a place where he would go and like, work out. She said, I, you know, I didn't know it was a palace. I thought it was a dojo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then she talks about the fact that, you know, she finds a Duane read bag with Paris sex paraphernalia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I mean it. I'll just like leave it at that.

[A]

It's disgusting.

[B]

He. He deserves to be publicly shamed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, I think it's amazing that Stranger Things comes out like next week, like the premiere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just like mic drop.

[A]

Yeah. And good luck.

[B]

It makes me so happy too. I think that the album is. Is not just being, you know, applauded for its like tea, but because people really like it and it's like a masterpiece and she deserves these flowers.

[A]

Also, she talks about the insecurities of basically being dating in her 40s with. With two kids and like. And I think that it's. It's so funny because it's interesting. I feel like as women we get. We get kind of like the raw end of the deal when it comes to, like, dating as we're getting older. But I also, like. I also just like wish on some level that I think that we were easier on ourselves because Ilion is still so stunning.

[B]

She looks gorgeous.

[A]

She's young. Like, I remember Martha Stewart talking about and her. How she was like such a desirous woman at 40 and like. And I.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's like you hear the interior monologue of someone who, I think like, her lack of self confidence is probably the product of being in a relationship or her confidence was behind.

[B]

Yeah. Where you can't trust your husband.

[A]

It's not based on objective reality where she's actually like, literally a star. She's beautiful, she's wealthy, she's. She should actually and probably does have tons of options. Yeah. But it just, yeah, it's. It's highly relatable, I think, for a lot of women who are in a similar situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think potentially all the women who maybe are not really into, you know, Opalite sky right now who are, don't really. That message doesn't really resonate. Wish List isn't really resonating because they're on the other side of a marriage that went sideways.

[B]

Other side of the Basketball Hoop.

[A]

West End Girl is their album.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it's. It's amazing. And I just, you know, to the men who blow up their lives and blow up the, the lives of like, the women that they marry who, who, you know, they make relocate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just a giant you.

[A]

A giant you. But also I just, I do believe that every guy who shows who he is, he does do the biggest favor to this woman. Yeah. It's gonna come out eventually.

[B]

Oh. And it. It just sounds like this is who David Harbour is and this is who he will be forever.

[A]

Forever. I mean, that's kind of how this, the album ends. That's kind of the message of the album. And she. She'll move on, she'll find someone great. She'll have the next chapter. She'll have a whole new life with someone else. But, you know, but that message, I think, rings a little hollow when you're in the thick of your grief.

[B]

Yeah. Great album.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

Incredible. And I'm just, Just so glad that we are living in a time, you know, from Lori Laughlin to, you know, to Lily Allen, where we are Just not keeping men's secrets.

[A]

No.

[B]

We are not keeping bad men's secrets anymore. We are not, like, internalizing that shame. We are not bottling it up because it's just. It's messy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, they deserve to be publicly humiliated.

[A]

Yeah. And every woman who now wants to hook up with David Harbour should know exactly who she's dealing.

[B]

Enjoy.

[A]

Yeah, enjoy. No, you're not the first to enter that palace, you know.

[B]

You absolutely are not. And I mean, the most stunning line, or one of the lines that I think I literally takes my breath away because it's just so gutting and raw. And she says, like, hundreds of Troj. Hundreds of Trojans. You're so broken.

[A]

Yeah. How embarrassing for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

And what's. Oh, sorry. One last little tidbit, I guess. She went on Raya to cross reference. This is just ignore the incredible detective powers of women. She went on Raya and selected, like, seeking women because she wanted to cross reference the women on Raya with the women he was following on Instagram.

[A]

Oh, wait, so like, so she could.

[B]

See women, like, on. Who are on Raya. Yeah. Who he was also following on Instagram.

[A]

But is the Raya list that short?

[B]

I don't know. Maybe. I just know that, like, she says.

[A]

That in one of the songs. Was it an interview?

[B]

I think it's like an interview or something. Or that's, like, one thing I saw on Reddit. Anyway, I guess, you know, I'm just bringing the tea that I know. I just want to also end this podcast with this meme that I saw about open relationships. I don't know how many of our listeners are in open relationships, so we.

[A]

Need to discuss this, actually.

[B]

Oh, okay. Well, I'm ready. I believe this to my Quora. You know, I. I try to be open minded, but when it comes to open relationships. I'm sorry, I'm not open minded.

[A]

No.

[B]

And this, this, like, meme or tweet said, when you see two people who are in an open relationship, it's like, which one of you came up with the idea? And which one of you cries yourself to sleep at night?

[A]

If your husband wants to open the relationship up sexually, it's over. It's just over. If your wife does, it's over. Like, these things don't. They never work.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They're not healthy. They're definitely not good for your kids.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And let's just all like. I don't think that anyone who listens to the show is under that delusion, but I think it's important to voice that in case a sad moment happens for you where this is something you're asked to participate in. Because it's. It's not it.

[B]

I. I think that there's this expectation to be like, modern women who are so chill and cool and I would.

[A]

Like, chill with the idea. I don't think there's the expectation that we. That women should be chill with this in their relationships.

[B]

I don't know. I. Hopefully not. But I'm just saying I would like you and I to be voices of reason that you don't have to be that chill, modern girl who's just okay with being disrespected.

[A]

No. And you also don't have to, you don't have to pretend it's normal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you have friends engaging with us in social situations.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you don't need to dignify this.

[B]

Right. I completely agree. And Lauren, I'm just glad that you and I are standing for truth and righteousness on this podcast, you guys.

[A]

And with that, we say these things in the name. I won't be sacrilegious. In the name of Vicki Gumbelson. Amen.

[B]

Amen. Love you guys. Bye bye. This October, fear is free on Pluto tv. With horror movie collections from Paranormal Activity, the Ring, you will die in seven days, Scream, and from dusk till dawn. This is my kind of place. And don't miss the man made nightmares in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein or the world ending chaos in 28 days later, something in the blood, all the scares, all for free. Pluto TV stream now pay never this thing on. I'm Kaitlyn Bristowe, host of off the vine podcast, where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness. Na na na na na na na.

[A]

Na na na na na na na.

[B]

Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elise Myers.

[A]

Just like in this, like, business jacket, like, I would love some tacos.

[B]

Heidi d', Amelio, Big brother's Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're gonna get through it. What I do and so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow rate and review off the Vine Podcast Wherever you listen to your podcast.