301: Prince Andrew Stripped of Titles + COURTNEY GROW On The Row Controversy, 💉 Beauty Treatments & Keeping Marriage Hot ❤️‍🔥

Summary

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Pop Apologists – Episode 301: Prince Andrew Stripped of Titles + Courtney Grow on The Row Controversy, 💉 Beauty Treatments & Keeping Marriage Hot ❤️‍🔥

PodcastOne | November 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and candid episode, sisters Lauren and Chandler are joined by their "celebrity sister" Courtney Grow, filling in while Lauren recovers from a short-lived flu. The hosts take listeners through the latest in royal scandals, celebrity divorces, fashion controversies, and deep dives into beauty regimens, marriage, and influencer culture. The episode blends sharp pop culture commentary with personal anecdotes, particularly highlighting the recent stripping of Prince Andrew’s royal titles, the Row sample sale and influencer fallout, and Courtney’s unfiltered takes on aging and relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life & Moving Updates (01:25–09:11)

• Lauren’s Recent Move: Lauren details her hellish experience moving while hungover and sick, unpacking the mess of boxes while battling a 24-hour flu.

  • “It's called double hell...you're already in hell because you're sorting through all your junk...but then add to it, you're a little nauseous...That was the hellscape I was in on Saturday.” (03:35–03:48, Lauren)

• Chandler’s Role & Courtney’s Guest Interview: Chandler steps in for Lauren and brings on Courtney, noting her 'celebrity' status in their family and her busy lifestyle.

• House Journey: Lauren speaks to her ongoing renovation plans in Puerto Rico and invites listeners to follow along for home content on Instagram.

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2. Divorce, Adultery & Celebrity Narratives: Deborra-Lee Furness, Hugh Jackman, Lily Allen, and David Harbour (09:31–16:36)

• Deborra-Lee Furness’s Memoir News:

  • Panel reacts to news that Deborra-Lee Furness is shopping a “bold, emotional memoir” post-divorce from Hugh Jackman.
  • “I feel like this is a win for women, and I hope she gets the fattest check possible, as she should.” (10:00–10:10, Chandler)
  • Lauren emphasizes the shift in culture: “I think it's important for women to feel emboldened to tell their stories...” (12:12)

• David Harbour/Lily Allen and Artistic Excuses:

  • Discussion of David Harbour’s recent Esquire interview, and the tendency for some artists to justify misdeeds as part of their “journey.”
  • Key quote: “If you've never been through anything, what do you really have to offer?... If I were to change anything, I change everything and just make my life happy and silly...and then I wouldn't be an artist anymore, and that would suck.” (14:22–14:54, David Harbour quoted by Chandler/Co-host)
  • The hosts call out the lack of accountability and “mental gymnastics” in this rationale.

• Millie Bobby Brown Harassment Claims:

  • Bringing up new allegations of workplace harassment by Harbour towards Millie Bobby Brown on Stranger Things, highlighting the disconnect between on-screen personas and alleged off-screen behavior.
  • “If the other main co-star in the show is needing to take this type of action against you, what are you doing to people who are smaller?” (20:15–21:11, Co-host)

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3. Prince Andrew Stripped of Titles – Royal Scandal Deep Dive (21:45–36:02)

• Timeline Recap of Andrew’s Association with Epstein:

  • The sisters walk listeners through a quick-fire but searing overview of Prince Andrew’s friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and involvement in the sexual abuse scandal.
  • The hosts clarify past palace responses, discuss Andrew’s disastrous TV interviews, and critique the monarchy’s repeated inaction.

• Criticism of the Monarchy:

  • Lauren lambasts the royal family’s focus on self-preservation:
    • “They’ve known exactly who Andrew was this entire time. And guess what? It was only when it threatened their power that they decided to take any action.” (31:17–31:51, Lauren)
  • Chandler on hush money: “The only reason why he's getting this payment is because they don't want him to reveal any more of their secrets...” (33:10)

• Respect for Meghan Markle and Harry:

  • Lauren praises Harry & Meghan for leaving the monarchy:
    • “Maybe she looked around and was like, I don't want to be around these in-laws.” (35:12–35:42, Lauren)

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4. Harry & Meghan on Social Media; Vanderpump Rules Reboot (38:18–45:42)

• Tabloid Gossip Debunked:

  • Chandler and Lauren dismiss Page Six reports claiming Prince Harry is upset about Meghan sharing family moments online.
  • Lauren, citing a personal source, doubts any tension and praises the couple’s authenticity and strong love.

• Vanderpump Rules Reboot Skepticism:

  • Both hosts struggle to care about the new, influencer-heavy cast, lamenting the loss of organic drama from the early seasons.
  • “The original VPR cast was lightning in a bottle...cannot be replicated.” (42:28–43:18, Lauren)

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5. Courtney Grow: Beauty, The Row Controversy, & Real Marriage Talk (47:42–78:24)

Rapid-Fire Beauty & Skincare (47:42–54:48)

• Botox, Filler, Lasers, and Exosomes:
  • Courtney is candid about her beauty regimen, favoring sculpture (a collagen stimulant) for natural “scaffolding” over traditional fillers.
  • On exosomes: “I just have really decided I don’t want my face to be any bigger. I just want my skin quality and skin texture to be as premium as it can be.” (52:46, Courtney)
  • Prefers to let trusted injectors guide choices, not influencer blueprints: “Everyone's anatomical structure is so different...you just need to find an injector you trust and do what they tell you to do.” (49:09–49:27, Courtney)

The Row Sample Sale & Influencer Brand Loyalty (54:52–71:12)

• The Row’s Declining Prestige & Sample Sale Fiascos:

  • Courtney relays her experience as an early “jelly sandals” adopter, the defect scandal, and contrasting customer service outcomes.
  • Full support for influencer Neelam’s viral Substack on feeling discounted by the Row, yet notes influencers are in a tricky “favor” space with brands.
  • Zinger: “Making your customer feel uncool is a horrible strategy.” (61:27, Courtney)
  • Courtney is wary of the “TJ Maxx syndrome” at sample sales—buying subpar items out of sheer FOMO.

• Retail & Influencer Treatment:

  • Both Chandler and Courtney bemoan snobby in-store experiences, contrasting them with more welcoming brands like Prada.
  • Courtney discusses being treated like “gum on the bottom of [a salesperson’s] shoe,” even with significant spend and influence. (66:46+)
  • “There is no comment section quite as on fire as something on TikTok where people talk about how much they hate influencers...and you would at least think that a retailer...would treat you well.” (68:09–69:17, Courtney)

Real Talk: Marriage, Sex, and Jealousy (71:18–78:24)

• Marriage & Intimacy – Total Transparency:

  • Courtney keeps it real about the exhaustion of parenting and the myth of perfect marital sex:
    • “Most of the time...there's that thought that washes over both of your eyes of just like, should we have sex? And genuinely, five to six out of seven days, it's just like...I wish I wasn't so goddamn tired.” (71:30–72:09, Courtney)
  • Connection matters more than constant physicality:
    • “To me, like, that's intimacy...sex is the cherry on top.” (74:03–74:44, Courtney)
  • On arguments: She and her husband avoid cruelty, but admits to losing her cool when his chill attitude brings her stress (76:41–77:11).

• Handling Jealousy:

  • Courtney’s philosophy: acknowledge envy, become the other person’s cheerleader, and watch yourself “level up” as a human.
  • “Look jealousy in the eye...become a person who is an active supporter of that person you might feel that way of, and watch your soul literally level up.” (78:00–78:24, Courtney)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lauren on Royal Hypocrisy:

  • “They have to do enough so that the public feels like they're taking it seriously, you know, but they have to not do so much that Andrew is no longer in their control.” (34:13)

• Chandler on TV Remakes:

  • “There’s something sacrilegious about seeing two people I’ve never seen before...arguing in the back of the Acer alley. It feels like cosplaying.” (43:18–43:31)

• Courtney on The Row’s Genius:

  • “They will do something first, and they will do it better than anyone.” (57:43)

• Courtney, Unfiltered on Marriage:

  • “We let the hot sex find us, and we are not in pursuit of the hot sex all the time.” (75:44)

• Courtney, On Jealousy:

  • “If you want to level up as a human being, look jealousy in the eye, look envy in the eye, get ahead of it. Become a person who is an active supporter of that person who you might feel that way of, and watch your soul literally level up.” (78:01–78:24)

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Important Timestamps

• Lauren’s move and flu story: 01:25–04:56
• Deborra-Lee Furness shopping a tell-all: 09:31–12:45
• David Harbour's Esquire interview and Lily Allen: 13:04–16:36
• Prince Andrew stripped of titles/royal scandal timeline: 21:50–36:02
• Vanderpump Rules reboot reflections: 41:10–45:42
• Courtney Grow Beauty Treatments & The Row controversy: 47:42–71:12
  • Collagen stimulants vs. fillers:** 49:09–53:15
  • The Row sample sale & customer service:** 54:52–71:12
• Marriage & Jealousy, with Courtney: 71:18–78:24

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent, and sisterly: The dialogue is full of teasing, empathy, and realness.
• Unvarnished pop culture analysis: The sisters stand firm with their opinions—be it on royal scandals, fashion brands, or reality TV.
• Encouraging vulnerability: They champion transparency—be it memoirs about betrayal, honest beauty routines, or admitting the realities of motherhood and marriage.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a one-stop shop for astute, no-holds-barred pop culture commentary and real-life wisdom. From holding the monarchy accountable, dissecting influencer-brand dynamics, to debunking marriage myths, Lauren, Chandler, and Courtney manage to cover a sprawling swath of contemporary issues—always with wit, candor, and the comforting dynamic of sisters (and sisters-in-law) who overshare, giggle, and ultimately champion authenticity above all.

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Transcript

[Lauren B.]

Everybody's heard of Macy's famous Thanksgiving Day parade. It's practically a tradition to watch it in our household. When I heard Macy's was doing a parade of deals. Yes, a daily parade of new one day only deals through Thanksgiving, I was like, cancel my plans. I'm gonna be busy adding to cart.

[Chandler B.]

So this parade of deals, it's like a daily dose of excitement when it comes to holiday shopping for my friends and family. I'm a deal seeker, okay? And Macy's has great deals on Dyson vacuums, Ninja blenders, and the classic large Ugg flash bluff throw blankets. They're the most beautiful blankets you've ever seen.

[Lauren B.]

And it doesn't stop there. 30 to 40% off fragrances from brands like Marc Jacobs and Gucci. 30 off Sunday. Riley skincare, diamond tennis bracelets, deeply discounted, and cashmere sweaters under $50. So if you're like me and love that. Ugh. What's today's deal moment? Make checking the Macy's app your new morning ritual.

[Chandler B.]

The parade of deals runs November 2 through November 27. So get in there before the good stuff's gone. Shop now@macy's.com or in store.

[Lauren B.]

This show is brought to you by booking.com. since 2010, they've helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. That's billion with a B. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking.com.

[Chandler B.]

Well, well, well, if it isn't the flu ridden, ailing sister of mine who's looking surprisingly well and healed.

[Lauren B.]

Okay, let me tell everyone the journey I have been on. Kagan and I, we recently moved. We just moved over the weekend and I was unpacking boxes and I hadn't slept well the night before and the night before I had, let's just say I was over served at a party. The type of overserved where you're ordering burger king at 1am and people might say burger king, wow. Even at 1am drunk, I wouldn't have that taste level. Well, it was the only thing that would deliver. So I was, you know, I had a little bit of a bender on Friday night, didn't sleep well that night obviously was hungover. And then I had to move our entire apartment hungover.

[Courtney Grow]

Okay, everyone feel terrible.

[Chandler B.]

For me, moving hungover is like the dream. That's like. Everyone recommends to move on the days that you're the most hungover. It's a kind of a hangover cure because you're distracted from the move because you're so hungover. And you're also kind of distracted from your hangover because you're so stressed about your move.

[Lauren B.]

No, that's not actually how it works at all. It's called double hell. It's called you're already in hell because you're sorting through all your junk and you're having to move every piece of, you know, every piece of crap you ever bought. Having to put it in boxes or just that hell, but then add to it, you're a little nauseous. You barely slept. You feel like total garbage. That was the hellscape I was in on Saturday. So we stayed in our new place on Saturday night. And then Sunday I awoke and I'm basically, I'm unpacking boxes in the house and. And I am like having to take a rest in between each box and I'm like, damn, I am really not doing well. I really need to get better sleep. And long story short, by one o' clock in the afternoon, I texted Kagan and I said, I think I'm getting sick. And he texted me because conveniently for him, he had a two day safety training, like water safety training that he's doing here. And so he couldn't help out with the movement. Yeah, those words just came out of my mouth, everyone. My husband couldn't help. But the move.

[Chandler B.]

Hang on. Water safety training, that only could happen that those two days.

[Lauren B.]

I know, honestly, it sounds like a tall tale, but yes, he had this like advanced water training thing that he and his surfer friends were doing and it was held over these two days and it was booked long ago. So it was me and the movers for two straight days moving our house, our apartment into our house. And long story short, he texted me back though, because it was on the beach. It was like, it's like a CPR recovering, this big training they did. And he said to me, I'm actually coming home right now. I am getting sick too. So we both got some crazy 24 hour flu, the type of flu where you're not even like on your phone trying to make time go by. You are truly like just shivering and feeling horrible, like on the bathroom floor. So I was panicked because we have a new episode due. I text you and you guys, I did not expect this to happen. But somehow you swindled our celebrity sister into an exclusive interview.

[Chandler B.]

I mean, let's just say somebody's gotta keep the train on the tracks when, you know, someone decides they don't want to do their job on Monday morning, they want to have the flu? No, I. Yeah. I asked Courtney if she could come on and she was nice enough to say yes. She actually didn't even need much convincing. I mean, I told her that we could talk about whatever she wanted to talk about. And yeah, she was like, okay, I can do it. Um, and she actually has quite a busy day today and we recorded earlier, so I. I don't know. Very glad that she came on. Feeling very lucky and thankful for, you know, our. Our celebrity sister.

[Lauren B.]

Wait, no. It's so nice of her. And she could be a little bit of a hard interview to schedule. On some level, I feel like a. A different New York celebrity would be easier. So it felt like a m. But lo and behold, it ended up only being a 24 hour thing because I am feeling fine today, thank goodness. And I didn't want, you know, the episode to go by without digging into some topics at hand because a lot has gone on. And I know your guys's interview, it's more lifestyle y. It's more kind of getting into the world of Courtney Grow, which we all love. But we gotta get into a few other worlds. I think before we dive into the Q A with Courtney, we absolutely have.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

To discuss a few things. I will say that Courtney and I discuss the current row controversy. You know, the controversy with the row, I guess I should say, and the substack article that came out. We just sort of briefly touch on it. She gives her unfiltered thoughts. I want to talk to you in depth about it on our Global Elites episode in a couple of days.

[Chandler B.]

Once we've.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

You've had more time to like, sit with it and come up with your thoughts.

[Lauren B.]

Mm.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

But yeah, we cover a lot of ground with Corny, but it's mostly lifestyle. Speaking of lifestyle, you've had some lifestyle changes, so you're moved. I mean, can you say a little bit more?

[Lauren B.]

There have indeed been some changes in the Atkinson world. So long story short, Kagan and I, when we first moved to Puerto Rico, we moved into this space I absolutely loved. It was this like, loft style apartment. But we needed to buy a home here. And so we bought this apartment that was on the beach. And Kagan loved it, but I personally felt like it was really cramped. I was dying for outdoor space. And as we are going to start a family this coming year, I was really wanting like a family home somewhere that I felt like really was a reflection of us and was a space where we could have some. Some outdoor space with privacy and a. Hopefully a pool and just kind of kind of a place that I felt like, okay, I'm putting down roots and I just really love it here. And long story short, there's very limited inventory here in Puerto Rico, especially in certain areas. And so we've kind of been monitoring what's come available the past couple years. And we found this house in May and I really, really, really wanted it. But the, the sellers, basically, they had a price in mind and it was not the price we wanted to pay. And so long story short, this whole process started in May and we finally close. Negotiations ended a week ago on Sunday and we moved in over the weekend. So we're just like so thrilled, so happy, feeling super blessed. And I am now entering my home Renault era Chandler. So I hope you're ready for that. Yeah. So I'm basically going to be working on a lot of house projects over the next year, but I'm excited. It's a, it's a new chapter for us. So let me know if you're. If you want some house renovation content on good old Instagram. Let me know if you don't want that. But it's gonna be, I would say, a lot of work.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

So it's actually really cute because we were all together last Sunday. We were celebrating Kagan's birthday and we.

[Chandler B.]

Were all together when you got the.

[Lauren B.]

News that you got the house.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

And so I feel like, I mean, I've been on this journey with you because we talk about everything, but it was really fun to like be there in that moment when you guys found out. So anyway, congratulations. We got all of the renovation content. I mean, I love watching all of that stuff. I love seeing the before and afters and what people decide to go with. So, I mean, I'll just go ahead and speak for everybody and say we want it all.

[Lauren B.]

Okay, well, I'm definitely going to be bringing everyone along then on, on the, on the journey. On my HGTV journey.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

I mean, you're just, you're a journey girl. Your Dyson journey. Yeah, your house journey. Just, you know, it's, it's amazing what these situations you find yourself in and how you take everyone along.

[Lauren B.]

I do what I can. Okay, well, anyway, so that out of the way though, bigger fish to fry on this episode. We have other topics we need to get into. So let's just start off right off the bat with Chandler. The news that Deborra Lee Furness is shopping a bombshell. Tell all about her divorce from Hugh Jackman.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

When I read this headline, I felt.

[Chandler B.]

A little bit taller. A Little bit prouder.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

I mean, I just feel like this is a win for women, and I hope she gets the fattest check possible, as she should. That's kind of my. My knee jerk reaction is shop that tell all, baby. I mean, not only do you dedicate your life to this marriage and you basically give up your career, you know, so that your husband can have a career, you are absolutely owed a incredible book deal at the end of it all.

[Lauren B.]

So I completely agree. She was, I guess, seen meeting with top publishers in New York and shopping a, quote, bold, emotional memoir about love, identity and starting over. She was all smiles, but it looked serious. A publishing insider told Page Six. The Source continues. She's reclaiming her voice. She spent years being known as Hugh's wife. Now she wants to be known for her truth. If we can all remember, she did break her silence on the, quote, traumatic journey of betrayal she feels she's been through. In a lengthy statement in May, she called the split a profound wound that cuts deep. She also wrote, I believe in a higher power and that God slash the universe, whatever you relate to as your guidance, is always working for us. So this is what I love about this, personally. I feel like as Hugh and Sutton make their red carpet debut and try to just, you know, like, be completely publicly accepted in society as a couple, I love that Deborah Lee Furness says, hey, why doesn't everyone hear what actually went down and what I went through? Let's get the full tea on what happened, and maybe let's pick sides.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

I mean, could not agree more. I'm picking sides. I've been known to pick a side or two when it comes to adultery. Not to. Sorry, excuse me. I've been known to pick the side of truth and righteousness, injustice. And, you know, I just think they should not expect Deborah Lee Furness, or dlf I should say dlf. Dlf to just quietly go away. She has every right to shout from the rooftops about her lived experience and the way she was betrayed. Yeah, I don't think this should be necessarily a pleasant chapter for Hugh and Sutton.

[Lauren B.]

I don't think she needs to keep what he did in any way a secret and keep her life story a secret in order to, you know, absolve him of any shame. And I think that this is, like, important. I think it's important for women to feel emboldened to tell their stories. Important for women and men when they've been betrayed. And so I absolutely love this, and I love seeing this. I mean, it's very Lily Allen Coated. I feel like we're in a new era of transparency where people are not hiding, you know, men's shame and, and their misdeeds.

[Chandler B.]

We're not keeping adulterers secrets.

[Courtney Grow]

No.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

You know, men or women, we can keep gender out of it, but we're just, we're not keeping the secrets anymore because frankly, some of these people need to have a little bit more shame. Which brings me to the Esquire article with David Harbour. Can I talk about it for a second?

[Lauren B.]

Please, please?

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

So I think this is all really interesting because obviously we, we talked about the Lily Allen album. It's having a moment. It's doing great. We're so proud of her. We love it. Stranger Things debuts, I'm pretty sure, this week or the next, or like, it's about to literally premiere its final season. And so, like, Stranger Things is also having a press moment. So Esquire had a profile with David Harbour that just got released.

[Courtney Grow]

Okay.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

I don't think this was planned in the wake of the Lily Allen album. I'm sure they had no idea. And it just, like happens to coincide now.

[Lauren B.]

Okay.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

And I find some of his words in the Esquire art profile to be a little bit of an eye roll.

[Lauren B.]

Can I read them to you, please?

[Chandler B.]

Okay.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

To set everyone's expectations, he is not directly asked about the album. Of course, I'm pretty sure that's because this was, you know, probably done months ago or at least before the album came out. But one of the questions he's asked, I think, is just a little bit telling.

[Chandler B.]

Okay. So they ask him, now that you're.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

50, is there anything you change about the last half century? This is what David has to say. He says, that's such a hard question. The question of regret or something. I would change either everything or nothing. You either accept your path completely and realize that even the pain and the slip ups and the mistakes are all.

[Chandler B.]

Part of the journey.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Hashtag my journey, hashtag my adulterer journey. And that there's truth and growth, wisdom and deeper empathy and connection and all that. It's kind of like a house of cards. The minute you try to change one thing, you kind of have to change it all. He goes on. So everyone just take a, take a breath.

[Lauren B.]

Here we go.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

As an artist, it's about incorporating your life into something that you can give to other people so that they can have a cathartic response to their lives. If you've never been through anything, what do you really have to offer? If I were to change anything, I Change everything and just make my life happy and silly and like, whatever.

[Lauren B.]

And then I wouldn't be an artist.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Anymore, and that would suck.

[Lauren B.]

Oh, these people are really buying their own bullshit. I mean, it's kind of giving, you know, an artist say, like, it's all copy or I'm sorry, writers say it's all copyright, I believe.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Was that Nora Ephron, I think.

[Lauren B.]

Who said that?

[Courtney Grow]

I believe.

[Lauren B.]

I don't know, I feel like I just, I really don't like that mentality of like, I can just kind of screw around with other people's experiences. I can, you know, do whatever I want, and it actually just adds to the richness of my artistic output.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not trying to throw Nora Ephron under the David harbor bus right now, okay? I'm not trying to do that. I think there's a different interpretation of that statement that maybe doesn't have to do with cheating on, you know, your wife and breaking up your, your family. But I completely agree with you, though, when it comes to his interpretation of this idea of if you don't, you know, have the slip ups, then what do you really have to offer the world? I, I can't be an actor if I'm not around on my family because how can I then give you an emotional response? What, what type of mental gymnastics gobbledygook is this man spewing?

[Lauren B.]

No, it's, it really, it strains credulity. Honestly.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

The other thing I want to say, I think what's pretty crazy about this is you think that he would maybe have a shred of awareness about, you know, maybe the, the particular skids his life has hit, you know, in the last two years or so. And he, he could have also said something like, he could have just actually owned that he's made some mistakes, but I feel like there was just a sidestepping of any ownership. That feels quite stunning, in my opinion. Like, just given the moment in time he's in. We're not talking 10 years from now.

[Chandler B.]

20 years from now.

[Lauren B.]

Absolutely. And he's not just embroiled in this scandal with Lily Allen. So Millie Bobby Brown, she apparently underwent what she considers to be serious harassment from him on set.

[Chandler B.]

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[Lauren B.]

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[Chandler B.]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The sun setting this early is truly such a hard adjustment for me. Every year around this time, my motivation clocks out before I do. And that's usually when I realize I've gone days or weeks without doing the normal things I need to do for my mental health. Talking to friends, working out, making time for my hobbies. So this month, I've been making an effort to check in on what matters most. Coffee with friends, lunch with my sisters, extra calls with my parents. And every time I do, I end up thinking, why didn't I just do this sooner? I Therapy kind of works the same way. Reaching out for help can feel intimidating, but once you do, it's a total game changer. Better Help makes it simple to connect with a licensed therapist online so you can get support from wherever you are whenever you need it. Through Better Help, over 5 million people have connected with more than 30,000 licensed therapists. And it shows with a 4.9 out of 5 rating across 1.7 million sessions. So this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, Better Help makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] popapologists that's better.

[Lauren B.]

H E L P.com popapologists so Millie Bobby Brown. She apparently underwent what she considers to be serious harassment from him on set. And the. The Daily Mail just broke this story that not only was he essentially around in his personal life, but he was really traumatizing another woman in his professional sphere.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Yeah. So she filed a harassment and bullying claim before they even started shooting this final season that's set to come out right now. The article says that there are pages and pages of accusations. She makes it very clear that it was bullying and harassment. It was not sexual in nature. Which I think is like an important distinction. Not because, like, you know, I'm trying to say it's better or anything, but I think, you know, I think everyone assumes when it's harassment, you know, between a male and a female that it's sexual in nature.

[Lauren B.]

And I think this just is so.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Insane because he plays like her dad, like a loving.

[Chandler B.]

This.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

People are going to get so mad at me because I don't actually. I have never watched Stranger Things, but he plays like her dad in the show. He's a really loving, lovable character. And so I think the fact that like, she had to have a representative with her on set.

[Lauren B.]

Yeah, she insisted on a representative on set to be with her at all times because of his harassment, which is.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Very baldoni Blake Lively coded. And if the other main co star in the, in the show is needing to take this type of like, action against you, what are you doing to people who are smaller? Like the, you know, the, the other people who are just working the show who are not a list stars? I mean, she's, she's a huge part of that show. So the fact that she's doing this, I think is a. It's a massive, massively big deal. So the other crazy thing is that Netflix hasn't denied any of this, which I think is pretty damning.

[Lauren B.]

Yeah, it's absolutely insane because you would think that Netflix would want to protect the other main star of Stranger Things, which is David Harbour. And so if this wasn't going on, they would deny it, but they just haven't commented and they've said they won't comment on internal investigations and there is an internal investigation going on. So. So, wow. I mean, it's unfortunate, I feel like that there's so much kind of like, men behaving badly news. Like, I really want some like, fun celebrity gossip, like, can we get Prince William slipping on a banana peel? Like, can we get something fun to talk about?

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Especially because this next story is just, you know, the worst of the worst.

[Lauren B.]

But we have to get into it. Okay, so we have to. Let's talk about the. The. Actually, I won't say it anymore. There is no Prince Andrew anymore. It is Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. He has been formally stripped of all of his titles. Now, what's so crazy about this, Chandler, is two weeks ago, the palace said that he had agreed not to use them, but he would not be stripped of his titles. I don't really understand what that means, but two weeks ago, the palace basically said that he would no longer use them.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Okay, so just kind of like an unspoken thing.

[Lauren B.]

I don't know if it means that he won't order stationery that says the Duke of York anymore. I'm not sure how it works with the aristocracy there. But they said that he would no longer use his titles, but he wouldn't be formally stripped of them.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Well, I mean, updating all your monogramming in your household is a big deal.

[Lauren B.]

That's true. Maybe that's what it was. It was like, he'll redo the towels in his house.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

New towels, new robe, new slippers.

[Lauren B.]

Exactly. No. So that was where the palace was at two weeks ago. And it essentially took, I would say the people storming the gates of the palace, figuratively, or everyone being enraged about it online, for King Charles and the monarchy to take a hard line against Andrew, because now he has formally stripped Andrew of all titles, he will no longer be a prince, and he has to move out of Royal Lodge, where he's lived for the past 20 years. And so they issued this statement basically saying that. And then at the end of it, they say, you know, our thoughts are essentially with the victims. So I just want to walk everyone through a quick little timeline. Okay. I want to walk everyone through a quick little timeline, and I want you to ask yourself how much the palace gives a shit about the victims. So in summer 2006, Jeffrey Epstein. And apparently her name is Jelaine Maxwell. How do you pronounce it? Someone chastised us appropriately. So we probably should get names, you know, pronounced correctly.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

I've heard Ghislaine.

[Lauren B.]

I've heard Ghislaine, too.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

And the person correcting us said it's pronounced Ghislaine. So Ghislaine is how. What we should be saying, like G, E, E. And then second word, Lane.

[Chandler B.]

Ghislaine.

[Lauren B.]

I know it's gonna be wrong, and it's just gonna be so funny. It's like when we couldn't pronounce Nicola Peltz's name correctly. We called her Nicola.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Nicola, like Ricola. Like the cough drops I mean, I've. I've. I feel like I've said jizz. Lane. Ghislaine.

[Lauren B.]

Ghislaine is my favorite.

[Chandler B.]

Okay.

[Lauren B.]

And I would like to stick with Ghislaine because I think there's something, you know, appropriate there. But I'll just call her Ghislaine.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Okay, I'm now looking at an AI. An AI Pronunciation. The pronunciation of Ghislaine varies, but the most common English version is Ghi. Lane. Hard G with Lane rhyming with rain. And a more traditionally French pronunciation is Ghislaine with a soft G like S in pleasure. And Len rhyming with again, Jazlyn. What?

[Chandler B.]

More confused than ever.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Either Jazlyn or Ghislaine.

[Lauren B.]

I mean, there's like a big difference between Ghislaine and Ghislaine.

[Chandler B.]

Okay?

[Lauren B.]

Two totally different people.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

And you know what? Neither of them were what we were doing before.

[Lauren B.]

Now we have been very far off the mark. Okay, well, I think Jillian is too pretty of a pronunciation.

[Chandler B.]

It's not Jillian.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

It was never. It's Jizlyn.

[Lauren B.]

Jizlyn. Jizlyn.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Okay, let's call her Ghislaine because that's. We're just American girls with American accents who only speak English. American English.

[Courtney Grow]

Exactly.

[Lauren B.]

Okay, so Basically, in summer 2006, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine. Ghislaine.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

No, wrong. GHI.

[Lauren B.]

Lane. Ghislaine.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

G, E, E. Second word. L, A, N, E. That's Ghislaine.

[Lauren B.]

Okay. Summer 2006, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were invited by Prince Andrew. By Andrew Mountbatten. Excuse me. To Princess Beatrice's birthday party, even though he was being investigated for sex crimes at the time. He was arrested eight days after the party. He was convicted in 2008. Okay, so in winter 2010, following Jeffrey Epstein's release, Andrew visits Jeffrey Epstein, who is now a convicted sex offender in New York, and is photographed with him in Central Park.

[Chandler B.]

Okay.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Yep.

[Lauren B.]

These people are not only pedophiles and rapists, they're also fucking idiots. Why are we chatting in Central park anyway? March 2011. Sarah Ferguson admits to accepting money from Jeffrey Epstein to pay off her debts. She publicly disavows him, but it's since emerged in a leaked email that she wrote to him to apologize, beg for forgiveness, and pledge her friendship.

[Chandler B.]

These people are such rats.

[Lauren B.]

Oh, Chandler, they are such vile vultures. Okay, in July 2011, Andrew is forced to resign from his post as UK Trade Envoy for his association, Jeffrey Epstein, but also for his inappropriate use of public funds. And allegations of accepting bribes. Yeah, allegations of accepting bribes. That's what the prince was up to in 2011. Also, he's walking around in Central park with a convicted sex offender. He invited the sex offender to his daughter's birthday party while he was under investigation. Okay, so then in 2011, the infamous photo of Andrew with his arm around Virginia Guthrie, that then underage and Ghislaine Maxwell hovering in the background, is published in the UK papers, corroborating her claims that she was trafficked him. This was 2011, 14 years ago. Okay. April 2015. Four years later, Andrew is named in another Jeffrey Epstein court case as he's accused of participating in sex trafficking with Jeffrey Epstein, which.

[Chandler B.]

Can I say something?

[Lauren B.]

Denies, Please.

[Chandler B.]

If we didn't have that photo, I just really find it hard to believe that people would have believed her as much as they do now. Like, thank God we have that photo. And I. I realize that sounds so dark and sad. I just think that that photo is so damning and like, these people get away with so much, you know, and got away with so much. I don't know. I'm just. I guess in a. In a twisted way, I'm so glad we have that photo because it's just like, try to run from this, try to, you know, disprove this, try to get weasel your way out of this.

[Lauren B.]

But the crazy part about it, Chandler, is that it came out 14 years ago, right? So he's basically been publicly cavorting with a sex offender. There's photos of him. There's a photo of him with an underage girl, but the palace is just like, oh, we're just gonna do exactly nothing about this. So fast forward to summer 2019. Jeffrey Epstein is arrested and multiple victims come forward to complain, confirmed that they have direct knowledge of Andrew's involvement in the sex trafficking ring that Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine were running. Okay. That fall following Jeffrey Epstein's death, Andrew has the disastrous interview with Emily Matliss on Newsnight precipitating his exit from public life, where he just came across like such an idiot and liar and a buffoon. Remember how he says that Virginia's account said he was really sweaty and he was like, oh, I have a. A condition where I don't sweat much?

[Chandler B.]

I mean, the guy is not dealing with a full deck.

[Lauren B.]

No. So then in 2021, Virginia Guthrie sues Andrew for sexual assault. In 2022, he settles out of court for an undisclosed sum that is estimated to be around 10 million and releases a statement when she in which he, quote, accepts that she has suffered both as an established victim of abuse and as a result of unfair public attacks. Because of course, you know, vile people online go after people who claim to have suffered sexual assault. Ok. There's just no doubt about that. Especially people who go after public figures with their stories. Oh, and also, let's just ground ourselves in the fact that while he's, you know, accepting that she suffered as a, as a victim of abuse, he also, remember he sent those internal emails to see if his security could do some investigation into her background.

[Chandler B.]

Okay. To dig some stuff up.

[Lauren B.]

Yeah. On her. Okay. So now it has Taken Essentially through 2024 and 2025, it has taken the Epstein files becoming an obsession during the American election and people continuing to demand the release of the documents that has kept the story alive. And finally, Virginia Guthrie's posthumous memoir coming out After She Took Her Own Life, where she details having sex with him, also being in an orgy with him and Epstein and a bunch of underage girls from other countries. And. And then, okay, there's an email from, from Andrew to Epstein where he like kind of is apologizing for everything he's going through and he says, don't worry, we'll play again soon. So that's everything that has gone down. And I just think that the fact that now King Charles has like grown a conscience, like, I'm sorry, fuck this family. They've known exactly who Andrew was this entire time. And guess what? It was only when it threatened their power that they decided to take any action. All this has to do with is them being in self preservation mode. I don't actually think they care about the victims at all. They just care about keeping the crown, keeping their power, keeping their wealth. They don't want another revolution. And so once this is this, basically this scandal has heated up to a point where it's boiling over and it could scald them. Then all of a sudden their thoughts are with the victims.

[Chandler B.]

But please, it's insulting for them to even utter those words because their priority has always been protecting themselves. And we see this now with the payout to him. So he will receive, you know, a six figure one time payout and then he will receive basically a salary from the Crown to just sort of keep him happy, keep him plodding along and he just gets to now go basically retire in obscurity. He should not just get a cushy, you know, ride off into the sunset. He should have to rebuild his life and get a job and figure out how to Pay and like, atone for his crimes.

[Lauren B.]

Well, he should be in prison. And if for some reason there's a statute of limitations and for some reason they can't figure it out to throw his ass in prison for the rest of his life, he should have to do what they, I guess, consider to be, you know, a punishment too difficult for someone who is born as a royal, which is to do what every other human being has to do on earth, which is get a job. Get a job and pay your own bills. I mean, what a thought. How is that so beyond belief for them? I'll tell you what I think is going on.

[Chandler B.]

Well, I'll just say, like, the only reason why he's getting this payment is because they don't want him to reveal any more of their secrets. Like, this is a way to keep. Once again, this is a way to continue to cover their own asses. Yeah, it's a way for them to.

[Lauren B.]

Cover their own tracks. Because guaranteed, if they were just to throw him out on the streets, he would sell some sort of memoir or he would do some sort of book about the misdeeds of Charles and William. I guarantee it. There's just no way he wouldn't. And so the fact that they're essentially just moving him to another beautiful home, home that probably everyone would, like so many people would just die to live in. Like, I don't mean that literally, figuratively. I'm sure wherever he's moving in Sandringham is going to be absolutely lovely. This is no penance, in my opinion. And I think that that is the only reasonable explanation is like, they have to, they basically are walking this tightrope where they have to do enough so that the public feels like they're taking it seriously, you know, but they have to not do so much that Andrew is no longer in their control. And that's what this six figure payout means and that's what this annual stipend means. And I just think that people need to understand the writing on the wall with this family. And like, I think we would be naive at best to not think that the women in that family don't know exactly what's going on as well. Like, I just find it very hard to believe that Kate and Camilla, that they just have no idea about all the dark family secrets.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

No, they.

[Chandler B.]

They signed their deal with the devil too. Exactly.

[Lauren B.]

And it just, you know what, it gives me a little bit of. Not a little bit. It gives me a lot of respect for Mary. For Mary. It gives me a lot of Mary.

[Chandler B.]

And Hagen, it's my favorite thing when you, you. Somebody also commented and said that you always say one other thing too.

[Lauren B.]

I always say that the switch. I always say the flip switched. The flip switched. Oh, my gosh.

[Courtney Grow]

It's cute.

[Chandler B.]

It's very charming.

[Lauren B.]

It gives me a lot of respect for Marian Hagan. You're right, Chandler. No, for Harry and Meghan. Because you know what? They got the F out of there. And you know, let's just maybe give Meghan Markle. You know what? I'll call. I'll call her it the Duchess of Sussex. Why don't we give her her credit? Because there might be other reasons she left the monarchy other than the fact that the British media was bullying her to within an inch of her life. Like maybe she looked around and was like, I don't want the. I don't wanna be around these in laws.

[Chandler B.]

I am not keeping your secrets. I'm not going to sign a deal with the devil. You could say, you know, maybe a flip switched within her.

[Lauren B.]

Exactly, Chandler. Thank you for that. So I just, I hope none of us are satisfied by this resolution. And I hope we at least all see exactly what's going on here.

[Chandler B.]

Speaking of Marian Hagan, do you wanna talk about the little video she posted? Do you wanna touch on that for.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

A few moments before we sign off?

[Lauren B.]

So we recently moved into this new house and cake and walked up to me the first night we're there and he goes, where are the gummies? All of our stuff is in boxes. But you better believe that in the special box of items I knew we would need for the first night was a bottle of Roly Bird gummies.

[Chandler B.]

I cannot even tell you how much I have needed these in the last month. I had debilitating period cramps, okay? And taking an Early Bird gummy helped me so much. They're basically a part of my weekend routine now. And I swear by Early Bird so much.

[Lauren B.]

These are a multi use product. You can use them if you just want to enjoy a meal a little more, relax into watching a show a bit more, or have the best night's sleep of your Life. There are 30 gummies per bottle. I always use basically a half at a time. So a bottle will last a couple months at least. You guys, early birdcbd.com, use code popapologist for 20% off your order. We swear by early bird CBD and you will absolutely thank us.

[Chandler B.]

This episode of Pop Apologists is brought.

[Lauren B.]

To you by booking.com booking.com is such.

[Chandler B.]

A popular app amongst my traveler friends. And honestly, if you have a vacation rental, this is the site for you.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Since 2010, Booking.com has helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay.

[Chandler B.]

And let me just emphasize that I.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Said billion with a baby.

[Chandler B.]

But here's the thing.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com.

[Lauren B.]

And if you're not on the platform.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right?

[Lauren B.]

Your rental property will be viewed by.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

A massive global audience of unique travelers. Whether your rental is ideal for the solo traveler, big families, or just some.

[Lauren B.]

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[Chandler B.]

Property in as little as 15 minutes.

[Lauren B.]

And nearly half of hosts get their.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

First booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to bookings.com and start your listing today.

[Lauren B.]

Get seen, get booked on booking.com well, okay, I want to. I want to talk about this Page Six article that came out. And it says, Prince Harry isn't loving Meghan Markle's recent posts of him and their kids. Okay. And so this is what an insider told Page Six. This is the quotes. He's very aware of her parading him around. He doesn't love the social media displays. This is after Megan posted like them at a pumpkin patch. She posted her friends cooling with excitement. After a bit. I don't know, I think the Dodgers were playing. Was it the World Series?

[Chandler B.]

Yes, Lauren, welcome back to Earth. The Dodgers won the World Series.

[Lauren B.]

Okay, sorry. I think the whole, like, girl joke of being like, what sports? Is a little overplayed. That's not what I'm trying to do here. But Megan was very excited when the Dodgers won and she was jumping on the down. She posted a video of that. And so there's this article that comes the next day where it says, this is another quote. The person says, the shine has worn off, which is fair at this point in a relationship. But he's also blown up his life for her. Plus, he's used to being universally loved. And the source said now it's the exact opposite. Actively booed. My personal feeling on this is this is a bullshit planted story, probably from the Palace. And I don't think that Harry cares at all about her posting little snippets of their life. What do you Think.

[Chandler B.]

I mean, I just don't think Harry would ever fault her for just posting very normal things online when it's kind of her career now.

[Lauren B.]

Well, also, like Kate and William, they absolutely post, like, cute kid lifestyle content. They'll post some sort of, like, Christmas video or some sort of video, and you'll see kids running through the trees or whatever. And I just don't think that any of it has been gratuitous or over the top in any way or, like, overly exit or exhibitionist in any way.

[Chandler B.]

I mean, she. She covers up their faces. I mean, we don't know.

[Lauren B.]

You cannot see their faces. No. So. And the other thing I will say is that, you know, I have a personal source who saw them at the San Vicente bungalows and said they were all over each other and he was particularly all over her. Whether you think, you know, Megan is the next Martha Stewart or you cringe a little at some of her content, Chandler and I think fall a little bit more in the latter. We're not super, I think, sold on her being, like, a domestic expert. I will say I don't doubt their love. And I think he's obsessed with her. And I get why. Like, she's amazing. She's amazing in a lot of ways. So I call BS on this.

[Chandler B.]

I also think the comment, you know, the shine has worn off is so annoying. You know what?

[Lauren B.]

I actually bet they're more deeply in love. They have two children together. They literally escaped the monarchy. They built a whole new life together. I bet you he loves her more now than he did the day they got married. Okay, another piece of news. Vanderpump Rules is back with a whole new cast. So 10 new servers. S u R V E R S everyone all caps S u r Got what we did there. We'll be hitting our screens and this is premiering, I believe it's December 2nd alongside Lisa Vanderpump for a refreshed reboot of Vanderpump Rules. I watched the trailer. You watched the trailer? Chan, do you have any thoughts?

[Chandler B.]

I am struggling to care about these people. It does look like a lot of, you know, just weho people who have probably watched a lot of reality TV and know what they need to do. I don't know that there are any amazing characters, like, right out of the gate that I can instantly tell are going to make for, like, great television. I think the other thing that I'm struggling with besides just. Just generally not caring about all these people is the idea that Lisa Vanderpump.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Is going to care about all these new people.

[Chandler B.]

You know, like, it was one thing about the original circass where it was like, everybody was on the up and up when. When that show started, including Lisa herself. But now she just has to, like, stop in and film for 15 minutes every now and then.

[Courtney Grow]

And I just.

[Chandler B.]

I think that's going to really show through well.

[Lauren B.]

And I also think that it's funny to. To say, oh, the focus of Vanderpump Rules is the restaurants. It was never the restaurants. The focus of Vanderpump Rules was not about, you know, fine dining at Sur or Villa Blanca. Those are backdrops that were as unimportant as any other backdrop. It was all about the character development and plot lines and storylines going on in very real people's lives. And I read this comment, and it says they just need to accept that the original VPR cast was lightning in a bottle for the first six seasons or so and cannot be replicated. And I think that's true. I think that essentially, like, them trying to recreate this, I think it's gonna fail. I hope it doesn't. But watching this trailer, it just seems like it's gonna be fabricated reality garbage.

[Chandler B.]

I mean, there's something sacrilegious about seeing two people I've, you know, never seen before don't care about arguing in the back of the Acer alley.

[Lauren B.]

Yeah. It feels like cosplaying.

[Chandler B.]

Yes.

[Lauren B.]

You know, like, I would rather they say we found this incredible, you know, insane group of friends who. I don't live in Idaho somewhere, and you guys will not believe the drama in this one sorority or whatever. Like, just find a whole new setting.

[Chandler B.]

You know what's funny? I think about, like, Love Thy Dater, where it's like, we found these, like, fun sisters that have a really interesting life living in New York, and we're going to put them. We're going to, you know, set up cameras. There's something so good. I mean, it doesn't always work, but I feel like it worked for Love Thy Nader about what you're saying. That strategy versus let's find a bunch of people who want to be actors and make them be on a reality TV show together.

[Lauren B.]

No, I mean, it's the exact same thing as the Bachelor. It's the reason why the Bachelor is not fun anymore at all. It's because it's basically like a rinse and repeat of the exact same thing. And when you do that, you water down the quality because people are not actually sharing, like, their lives are not there for Love. Everyone's just trying to be an impulse influencer. Like, that's the entire purpose of these shows. Now, for the cast, I'm going to find it very hard to believe if they found this incredible, organic group of friends that's going to have all of this scintillating drama. I will try to give it a chance, though. I absolutely will. But most likely, I think this is going to be just like the Roni reboot.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah, I mean, the Ronnie reboot had some good moments, but I don't know, I'm just. I just struggle to care about people who work serving jobs, like in WeHo, like, as far as reality TV shows go, because it just isn't what it used to be. I'm going to start to repeat everything you've just said, but it's like everyone just wants to be on the influencer. Watch what happens live pipeline.

[Lauren B.]

Well, and also, when they started Vanderpump Rules, there was no Instagram, so there wasn't even a concept of like, okay, I just have to stay on for so many seasons and then I'll get enough followers to where I can monetize and at least I won't have to work a 9 to 5 job again. No, they weren't even thinking about that. In fact, a lot of them were thinking like, hey, I want to be an actor and this could hurt my career, but it's the best opportunity I have, so.

[Chandler B.]

Exactly.

[Lauren B.]

Yeah. Anyway, those are my initial thoughts, you guys. I'm so excited that I. I think that this 24 hour flu was truly a blessing in disguise because I'm so excited for everyone to hear this interview with our celeb sis, the Courtney Grow, who, by the way, recently was featured by Moda Operandi. I mean, she has Courtney Grow's closet as a section of the website right now. It's just very, very, very cool. And I'm so excited about it.

[Chandler B.]

She's soaring. She really is. Everyone. Hope you like the interview. And we'll be back on Friday with another global elites.

[Lauren B.]

Everybody's heard of Macy's famous Thanksgiving Day parade. I mean, it's practically a tradition to watch it in our household. When I heard Macy's was doing a parade of deals. Yes, A daily parade of new one day only deals through Thanksgiving. I was like, cancel my plans. I'm gonna be busy adding to cart.

[Chandler B.]

So this parade of deals, it's like a daily dose of excitement when it comes to holiday shopping for my friends and family. I'm a deal seeker, okay? And Macy's has Great deals on Dyson vacuums, Ninja blenders, and the classic large Uggs fluff throw blankets. They're the most beautiful blankets you've ever seen.

[Lauren B.]

And it doesn't stop there. 30 to 40% off fragrances from brands like Marc Jacobs and Gucci. 30% off Sunday Riley skincare, diamond tennis bracelets, deeply discounted and cashmere sweaters under $50. So if you're like me and love that, what's today's deal moment? Make checking the Macy's app your new morning ritual.

[Chandler B.]

The parade of deals runs November 2 through November 27. So get in there before the good stuff's gone. Shop now@macy's.com or in store. Well, well, well. We're going to be joined today not by a familiar voice, but by another Bledsoe voice. I guess I should say a Grow voice. Courtney Grow has decided to join us on the podcast.

[Courtney Grow]

Filling in for a little flu ridden sis out in Puerto Rico, probably laying next to her pool in the sun while we push through gale force winds in the city. Yeah, no, it's okay. I'll do her job. Don't worry.

[Chandler B.]

I guess, like, if you get the flu, you just, you know, you're, you gotta call in the bigger guns. Your older sister, you know, I just want a picture.

[Courtney Grow]

Send me a picture of her looking like she's been dragged through the road with the flu.

[Chandler B.]

I mean, if the temperature there is 75 degrees or above, I'm gonna be annoyed that she has the flu and that she has to deal with it in that type of weather. Yeah, we've done Q and A episodes with you before, and so I think this one is gonna follow suit because there's like a wide range of questions that people have when it comes to motherhood. You're obviously the gorgeous mother of four stunningly beautiful, amazing children. You've been married for a long time. You have a, you have a lot of wisdom in the family and home departments. But then you also have. I have a lot of experience.

[Courtney Grow]

I don't know that I have a lot of wisdom, but a lot of experience.

[Chandler B.]

You do have a lot of experience. And you're also an extremely talented, successful, influencer, fashion style person. Let's just get into some rapid fire beauty and fashion questions. Let's start off with Botox. Where are you at with Botox? What's your regimen? I know you're on the Jan Marini train, where, like, where do we fall with the Botox with the filler, with the lasers?

[Courtney Grow]

Everyone is always asking, like, what have you done to your face? What do you do to your face? Like, what do you get injected anymore? And it makes you feel, like, a little bit like Frankenstein, kind of, when you're getting 35 of those messages a day. And part of the reason why I, like, don't answer them as prescriptively as some people would enjoy is that I just don't think that that's, like, great advice to give someone, because I don't think anyone should go to their injector and be like, well, this girl got filler under her eyes, and, like, that's why I want filler under her eyes. Everyone's anatomical structure is so different that, like, you just need to find an injector you trust and do what they tell you to do. Yeah. So, yeah, treatments I believe in. Let's just go down the line. I am the biggest sculpture fan. Sculpture is a.

[Chandler B.]

What is it?

[Courtney Grow]

Collagen stimulant. So it's not filler. It's a collagen stimulant that they mostly use around, like, the scat. They call it the scaffolding of your face. So the places that I've had sculpture would be, like, my bottom quadrant of my, like, jawline. And I think mostly there maybe a little bit in the temples, too. So, like, temples down to jaw.

[Chandler B.]

And what do you notice?

[Courtney Grow]

So what they claim and what I have noticed, and it's very subtle, is that I think just that area that can let, like, as you get older, you experience a little more bone loss and a little bit of hollowing. I feel like that regression of my face has slowed. It helps jowls from developing because your face essentially, like, is being held back a little bit more firmly. And it's done differently than filler. Filler, I think, absolutely has a place, when done well, in your face. I. I've obviously, like, had. I've had filler under my eyes. I did a little tiny filler on my nose once, and I can't. I guess that's, like, extremely dangerous. It's hard to find someone who will do that. But what I think filler does that's really, really tricky is filler holds onto water, and so it can make you look puffier. And filler never lifts, in my opinion. And from any good injector I've gone to, there is no real lifting property to filler. Filler can fill in, and filler can hydrate. I think, like, a little hydration of the lips with filler is great, but, like, the idea of putting filler in your cheekbone I don't think you're going to get much lifting. I think you're going to get. Puff and filler is cheaper than sculpt sculpture and I think it's really tempting to go that route. But I think my advice would be to use your resources to do a bio stimulant like sculpture just to keep things looking more natural. Like I've definitely had times when I felt like I had filler under my eye and I was like, I hate this. Like I smile and it felt just like chipmunky under the eyes. And that's like one of my nightmare phases. I actually had that dissolved and now what I do under my eyes is exosomes. So exosomes, I don't think they're a bio stimulant. I should like look up exactly what exosomes are. Okay. According to Google, exosomes are tiny cell derived vesicles that act as intercellular messengers containing proteins, RNA and DNA and they can transfer this cargo to other cells. So I think they just like re regulate your DNA to behave more functionally again. So like the cells under your eyes are going to rejuvenate faster like they were when you were younger. Kind of all of those good benefits that aren't just kind of this like jelly substance under your eyes that can swell if you have eaten a lot of sodium, you know, like can look weird when you smile. I just have really decided that I don't want my face to be any bigger. I just want my skin quality and skin texture to be as premium as it can be.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah. Okay. What about lasers? What about micro needling?

[Lauren B.]

So I had a lot last year.

[Courtney Grow]

I did like lots of micro needling with PRF or prp, whatever like that blood factor is. And I've heard that that is the gold standard. I really enjoyed those. And I. It's hard because when you. But you're not in that dermatologist office infrequently, like I've said, one of my favorite jokes is like, I've yet to find like a primary care physician out here, but I have seen at least 4 med spas. Been to 4 med spas.

[Chandler B.]

As one does. As one does. Let's face it, you get, you're healthy, it's fine. You know, you can find that, that the right primary care doctor when, when you really need one, there's always the emergency room.

[Courtney Grow]

Ladies and gentlemen, as my husband knows, if I think anything is wrong, you think I'm gonna call a doctor and be like, we'll see you in Three weeks, this health anxiety mother her of four goes straight to the emergency room. And I have a, I have the hospital bill statements to prove it.

[Chandler B.]

Exactly. You're not, you're not gonna sit on an issue for more than probably 90 seconds before you're gonna get an appointment. And that's just. Yeah, that's just, that's just your style. Yeah. Why?

[Courtney Grow]

It was like, why do you need, like, we were discussing different health insurance plans and he's like, why do you need this? He's like, you just go straight to the hospital anyway.

[Chandler B.]

Maybe you should, you should consider, honestly, like, is there a emergency room only.

[Courtney Grow]

Health insurance plan where you get results within hours?

[Chandler B.]

You have no patience.

[Courtney Grow]

I have no patience. It is a, it's a flaw.

[Chandler B.]

Okay, moving away from treatments. Let's talk about a little bit of a scandal right now of a controversy. In my opinion, the Row is, is not looking too hot to me right now. We saw the videos from the sample sale. Lauren said it best. The clothes were looking like oversized Ann Taylor. I don't know if people here have seen Neelam's letter, which was all about her experience with the Row and the way they treated her. I actually think Lauren and I are going to talk about it on this week's Global Elites. So we won't get into all of it here, but we're going to get.

[Courtney Grow]

Into a little bit of it because I want to talk about it.

[Chandler B.]

Corny, you're a Row devotee. Okay.

[Courtney Grow]

Okay, let's back up there. I feel like I'm hesitant to say devotee because there is this tier of influencer that is a ROW devotee and like they almost exclusively post products from the Row and that is a huge part of their identity. And I know some of them personally. I do buy products from the Row. I feel like their coats are exceptional. I think their sweaters are exceptional. And when they have a really interesting bag that is not one of their like usual, like, I don't care about a 90s bag. I do not care about, like the gala pants that everybody loves. I think there are some, some of the core cult basics that are really interesting to a lot of people that mean nothing to me. But when they come out with like, like a really interesting, like woven marigold yellow with green type piece, like, those are collector worthy items to me.

[Chandler B.]

So you're really in it for not the, the basics or the staples from the Row. You're in it for the kind of one of a kind pieces. Like you're not in it for the button ups. Or the blazers, necessarily.

[Courtney Grow]

I think this is an interesting part of the story with Neelam is that she was the first person that I reached out to when my jelly started breaking. This might be too niche of a story, but everybody knows the absolute stir that the jellies caused a year ago. Probably what was the summer of 2024. I thought the jellies were actually a revolutionary new shoe style, much like the mesh flats that the Row came out with. That is why I can't totally go down the train that Lauren wants to about how, like, the row is all overpriced hand Taylor. Because in my opinion, there are moments of absolute genius that they will produce, like, a new category of footwear. And they really did that first with the mesh flat that now is in every single high street to, you know, Veronica Beer. Like, everybody's making a mesh flat now. And the row did that first. You can't take your eyes off the row because they will do something first, and they will do it better than anyone.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah.

[Courtney Grow]

So that takes me to the jelly sandal, the jelly flat, whatever you want to call it. That shoe was the shoe of summer 2024.

[Chandler B.]

Agreed.

[Courtney Grow]

That's right here. I mean, I have worked hard to have, like, a relationship with a sales associate. I was scoping them out in my Teresa. Thankfully, I ended up getting my jellies in store, and within about, I would say, a week of wearing my first pair of jellies, they all started breaking on the inside. And these jellies were just shy of four figures. Like, it's an embarrassing amount to spend on a piece of plastic shoe that somebody later said looked like the red fish and chips basket. They weren't wrong.

[Lauren B.]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chandler B.]

So good, right?

[Courtney Grow]

Isn't that. Isn't that so real? That was a great TikTok. So I buy these shoes, I've spent way too much on them, and, like, all of a sudden, I, like, look down. I remember being at dinner and, like, looking down and, like, seeing on both of the insides of my shoe, it had completely cracked. I basically don't know what to do because I think I had promoted the shoes already on Instagram and was feeling, like, this pressure to be honest about it. And the first person I turned to was Neelam, who has written this expose kind of about breaking up with the Row that I thought was really brave of her to send. And her response to me was, like, so measured. Like, we were talking, like, maybe it's my foot. Like, you know, like, not that my feet can take any more criticism on The Internet. But, like, maybe it really was just, like, the shape of my foot. And she was like, I would definitely talk to your sales representative first. Blah, blah, blah. I ended up discussing it with everyone in my channel and warning everyone about these shoes. I was the. You know, I was the Paul Revere of these Jellies are breaking. But, yeah, she has been a woman who I think has done a really great job of roughing the Row. And there are two sides to the story that I think are worth unpacking. One is that she was not hired by the Row. Okay. And it's always a little bit of a complicated situation when someone is doing a favor for you that you didn't ask them to do.

[Chandler B.]

Right. Before we dive into it, I think it's worth giving a little bit of a synopsis. She just had, like, several negative experiences with sales associates and with the brand. And everyone should know if you're not familiar with her. Like, her whole feed is really being a huge Row fan and talking about the clothing. Spending a lot of her own money on the Row clothing.

[Courtney Grow]

The Jellyfoots, they actually treated me tremendously. I brought all of them back. I got a refund for all of them. They replaced the ones they could. Some of the other pairs did not break, but. But I was treated really well.

[Chandler B.]

Okay.

[Courtney Grow]

Yeah. But also, like, I didn't. I wasn't having to deal with, like, my Teresa or another retailer. Yeah. But the problem with the Neelam situation, let's pretend I was a brand and somebody was a devotee to me, and they were, you know, focused on, like, reviewing everything I did or didn't do. Like, what obligation are they owed by me? You know, Like, I think. I think it is an interesting question. Do I owe them front row access to everything in my life because they are a devotee? Maybe. One thing I will say for sure is you absolutely owe someone your respect.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah.

[Courtney Grow]

And you owe them treatment to the level with which you should view your customers anyway. And I think what Neelam exposed was a little bit of a lack of care and devotion to their clients. Like, in general.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Yeah.

[Courtney Grow]

I don't care that she's an influencer. I don't think that they have to send her an award for influencing people to buy her products. But making your customer feel uncool is a horrible strategy.

[Chandler B.]

Horrible.

[Courtney Grow]

And I have had few retailer experiences where I walk in the door and I just feel like a loser. Like, I have a sales associate who basically looks at me like I'm about to shoplift. Like, you know, I just I. I think that that phase of, you know, walking down Mercer street into every boutique that's on there and being treated like you're being given, like having a sales associate give you the side eye.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah.

[Courtney Grow]

And act annoyed when you ask for a size is really dehumanizing. Is. I mean, yeah. Wrong of a word.

[Chandler B.]

But no, I think it's all been.

[Courtney Grow]

There and it just makes you feel like a piece of shit.

[Chandler B.]

Especially when you're spending four figures at least, when that is the money amount that they charge for from the majority of their items.

[Courtney Grow]

Totally. And then if you say you're not, you know, like, no, thanks, like, I don't want this, like, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that, like, 65% of the time, there's just like a tone repeated back to you that, like, makes you feel poor and broke and cheap and totally. If you were richer, you would buy this. And I, I think truly I'd rather shop from the privacy of my own home at this point than walk into any of those boutiques anymore. Like, I truly am a shopper and I spend money, like, in these stores and I'm not gonna name names, but, like, I gird my loins a little bit before I walk in because, like, the minute you walked into those stores, you're just like, you are a subject in their court. And if they are, if you're lucky enough that they have your size and they'll sell it to you, like, you should be so blessed. And I think that I loved Neelam for calling this out because I don't think anybody wants to be treated like a peon when they walk into actually shout out to Prada. I feel like the nicest people I've ever met work at Prada. And everybody there is always so kind when I think as far as all these big different retailers go, they have more cachet than anybody else. And I've found the sales associates there to be, like, the loveliest.

[Chandler B.]

You know how people say blue light is bad for your eyes? Well, apparently it's not doing our skin any favors either, which is just fantastic news for someone like me who stares at a laptop phone and TV like it's my full time job because it kind of is. Avoiding screens isn't realistic in this modern world, but at least now I can do something about it. That's where marine glow from Nature Sunshine comes in. It's the only collagen product clinically proven to protect against blue light while supporting both, both skin and eye health. It's kind of like a daily defense against digital aging. It's made with responsibly sourced marine collagen to help reduce fine lines and improve texture, plus lutein from marigold flowers to keep skin hydrated and protected. Marine Glow is clinically proven to increase hydration by 40% and increase the skin's natural defense against blue light by 200%. Basically, it helps your skin glow even under fluorescent lighting. I've always been a little skeptical about beauty supplements, but Marine Glow has changed that. This one actually has clinical proof behind it and it doesn't taste weird. It's super easy to mix into my morning routine, and the tropical flavor is totally refreshing. Protect your eyes and skin against harmful blue light effects with Marine Glow. Get 20 off your first order and free shipping by using checkout code [e-mail] that's code [e-mail] you know that moment when it's suddenly freezing and you realize your fall wardrobe needs some more basics? Well, I've been there and this year I'm actually getting ahead of it. Thanks to Quilt Quince as the air turns crisp and the holidays creep closer, comfort really is the best gift we can give ourselves. And quince has everything. 50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear. Silk tops and skirts perfect for gifting or upgrading your own wardrobe. I'm going to treat myself this winter so I grabbed their cashmere line, leather gloves and the cashmere trouser socks. It felt like time to just really upgrade my cold weather essentials from, you know, the cheap stuff that I just always lose. Winter is hard enough and we all deserve the coziest fits and Quince makes them so affordable. I cannot wait to feel like a posh New Yorker with my cashmere lined leather gloves. Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and last from Quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.comapologist for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comapologist to get free shipping and 36065 day returns. Quint.comapologist we were shopping a couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago and I won't say the name of the store actually don't think I remember it, but you were returning something and the way that the attitude was like this is extreme, but it was kind of like you were gum on the bottom of their shoe that they were Annoyed with having to deal with because you were just returning something that was in pristine, brand new condition that you just didn't end up up wanting to, you know, have.

[Courtney Grow]

I was perfectly within the return window. This story actually deepens a little bit. This is a store I don't actually typically shop from very often, but I bought a pair of earrings there. I brought them back within the return window. I knew that it was store credit only, which is fine. I agreed to that. So they give me this slip of store credit and I go to, to the online store to try to buy something and I can't quite figure out how to use this slip to make my purchase. And I call the store and they're just like, yeah, we're not affiliated with our online store at all. You can't use this credit online. And I was just like, okay, that's absolutely insane in the year of our Lord 2025 that I don't even get an online credit to your store. But whatever. So I asked him if he has this like, pair of shoes. I am gum on his shoe. This whole entire text message exchange, we finally find the pair of shoes that I like. I asked him, I asked them a pair of shoes. And he's like, these are much better looking.

[Chandler B.]

I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't.

[Courtney Grow]

Care what you think about it. These are the shoes that I want. So we like finally get to the end. I followed up four times and he's like, I'll have a messenger to you. And then I was like, okay, I'm ready, like let's go through. And he's just like, oh honey, I, I can't send these to Brooklyn. We don't messenger to Brooklyn. And I literally, I was just like.

[Chandler B.]

He literally said, oh honey, oh honey.

[Courtney Grow]

We don't messenger to Brooklyn. I was gum on his shoe. I was riffraff. And I would love to know who the customers are that are treated well in these situations because everyone I know feels like, feels like Neelam and they've. And I think especially as an influencer, it's a weird situation to be hated for who you are. And like Neelam said in her article, she has trackable data that she has sent hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales to them. So there is no comment section quite as on fire as, as something on TikTok where people talk about how much they hate influencers and influencers have like ruined the world. And you would at least think that a retailer, a person who you are seeing driving revenue to, would treat you well. And I think it just that pile on of like your influencer trash made that a really fascinating and powerful read.

[Lauren B.]

Yeah.

[Chandler B.]

And I think to me, if a brand is not recognizing the power and the brilliance and just the smarts of, of influencers and the way that they are, you know, brilliant marketing tools, if they're not recognizing the power and then like, it's so short sighted and it really permanently grosses me out about the brand. So anyway, we can move on from the, the Row and all of their issues. But I'm not buying that margot bag I was gonna buy. You know, I had that money ready to go.

[Courtney Grow]

What did I tell you about the sample sale?

[Chandler B.]

I said, is it worth it? And you said, no, I don't think so.

[Courtney Grow]

The viral sample sale hauls that are going around, the parody ones are absolutely hysterical. Like, somebody will be holding up a sweater and they'll just like, like, this Sweater was originally 2, $800, but since it has both sleeves and it was in perfect condition, I was able to get it for $797. And that's like, I mean, I am gonna be on that Upper east side location at least once a month checking out like the gorgeous wares from the Row. But one of my friends coined it best and she was like, like, sometimes you walk into a store and you get TJ Maxx syndrome where you're just like, do I actually love this? Do I actually want this? Or is this just the best thing I'm seeing here?

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

Yes.

[Courtney Grow]

And that is where sample sales, I think, are such a tricky. I think they should almost be avoided for that reason. Like, unless you have inside information that a piece you want is going to be there. Personally, there's nothing I've ever bought from a sample sale that I didn't feel like was ultimately like, because of T.J. maxx syndrome. I'm just like, I want to, I want to partake in the sacrament of purchasing at this experience. I waited in line to be here. I want to do this. I mean, that's a personal preference, but I just think that TJ Maxx syndrome is real. Remember that girl?

[Chandler B.]

It absolutely is real. I. I wanna move into some of your, you know, domestic sides.

[Courtney Grow]

Oh, that's like the best part of my life life.

[Chandler B.]

Let's talk about, let's talk about where you're at with keeping your married life sexy, hot and fun.

[Courtney Grow]

This is such a, like a. I wish y was in here to kind of offer his advice because, like, most of the night, like, most of the time, he'll like Come in the room and, you know, like, you look at each other and there's like, that. That maybe that, like, thought that washes over both of your eyes of just like, should we have sex? And genuinely, five to six out of seven days, it's just like a. I wish I wasn't so goddamn tired. Like, I love you. I literally will just, like, look at him. And she's like, you are so cute to me. I just wish I had any energy to have sex with you. Like, I love you so much. You're so hot.

[Lauren B.]

You're so cute.

[Courtney Grow]

But, like, we're just gonna. Can we just hold hands tonight and.

[Chandler B.]

Like, watch a show?

[Courtney Grow]

Yeah, like, you know, like, I like. You heard it here first. Watching a show is the new. Having sex with your partner, you can do. It's something you can do every night.

[Chandler B.]

Every night. Every night. 45 minutes, feel an hour. You're also. You're not the type where I feel like you never. I'm not the type.

[Courtney Grow]

I'm never gonna brag about myself. I think anyone who's bragging about their sex. Sex life is a. Not the person I want to sit next to at dinner. I think, yes, I'm always going to wonder play my sex life, but, like, we have just managed to always make the other person, I think, feel desirable. And then, like, the energy to have sex or not have sex is a very complicated issue when you have four children. But I don't ever feel like the desirability levels between Wyatt and I are like, ever in a. Or ever in a dry spell.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, too, I think people ask this question because it's pretty normal to feel like your married life. Your married sex life is pretty standard, humdrum. And so I think everyone wants to know if that's normal. And I think. I think it's very normal. And it's just about, like, staying. Figuring out how to, like, always stay connected. That might not always mean that your sex life is always on fire.

[Courtney Grow]

Yeah. And. And so, like, every. I've done a lot of on the ground research talking to people about their sex lives and how much they're having sex. And not a single person that I know who's having sex more than three times a week is doing it because they are enjoying it and asking for it.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Courtney Grow]

Like that. That is a person who. Who signed up for. To be. To spend a life with someone with a higher sex drive than them. Not saying that they're unhappy or they're miserable doing it, but it's just, you Know, like, there are certain compromises people make in marriage. Sometimes that means they probably have to have sex more than sounds desirable to them. And I just believe that, like, there is no good sex without good connection, especially when you are, like, Wyatt and I are business partners in every sense of the word. Like, we've done the math, and Wyatt and I have been together essentially 23 hours a day. Coming up on 17 years, we. And let me, like, we did the math, and we think we've spent more time together than my own mom and dad. My dad left and had a job eight hours a day. We spend every. Almost every minute together laughing, bouncing our ideas off each other. He truly contains half my brain at this point in time. And to me, like, that's intimacy. Like, that, like, sex is the cherry on top up. And I think that a lot that, like, that is the foundation for great sex. It's not like the type of sex you have when you, like, come home from, like, a date night and you're, you know, a little bit, like, tipsy. It's not. It's not that magic alchemy that's also fun. I think that, like, the reason our marriage is strong is because the. We let the hot sex find us, and we are not in pursuit of the hot sex all the time.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah, no, I think that's, like. I think that is. I think that's a great answer. And I think you and Wyatt have also evolved and changed a lot as people. Not a ton, but you've. You've grown into new people, you know, being together for 17 years and especially, you know, you got married when you were pretty young, and I think you've remained extremely close and. And extremely, like, in step with each other, which is. Which is really something to be proud of.

[Lauren B.]

Love. Yeah.

[Chandler B.]

We.

[Courtney Grow]

We are like soulmates. Like, he. We just are.

[Chandler B.]

Okay. But the people also want to know, do you ever lose your. With Wyatt?

[Courtney Grow]

Absolutely.

[Chandler B.]

I don't.

[Courtney Grow]

I don't think you. This goes back to my intimacy question.

[Chandler B.]

What?

[Courtney Grow]

I definitely lose my. With Wyatt. I will say. I don't say cruelty. We don't say cruel things to each other.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah. You never get mean.

[Courtney Grow]

We never get mean.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah. How often are you losing your. Just a dose of reality. Yeah, I think.

[Courtney Grow]

I think Wyatt is so cool and casual that, like, sometimes I feel a lot of stress that he doesn't feel, and that will just be, like, that will bring out the, like, the monster inside me of just, like, I, I. You know, like, when you're with someone who, like, managed, has somehow Managed to feel like. No, I mean, he doesn't even feel rushed to go to the airport. Like, that will make any woman lose their.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah, absolutely. That would send me into. Yeah, into a conniption fit. Okay, Courtney, how do you approach jealousy in comparison?

[Courtney Grow]

Okay. I can recognize when I am being jealous very quickly, and there's always an opportunity to give in to that jealousy and sit with that jealousy and just kind of let that jealousy fester. But my biggest moments of breakthrough in my life, in my career, in almost every thing that I think makes an adult mature and grow and become a better person have come from looking jealousy in the eye, choosing to be happy for the other person and then translating yourself into that, into their cheerleader.

[Chandler B.]

Like, if you want to level up.

[Courtney Grow]

As a human being, look jealousy in the eye, look envy in the eye, get ahead of it. Become a person who is an active supporter of that person who you might feel that way of, and watch your soul literally level up.

[Chandler B.]

Yeah. I think it's something you truly have to shake off almost physically a little bit. You have to really shake it off and realize that that that's not a side of yourself that you want to feed. I love that. I love that you have such a good turn of phrase. Truly, I love you so much. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks for filling in for Lauren. You've been so nice to share your morning with me. Everyone will be back with a global leads episode on Friday.

[Lauren's Co-host (possibly Lauren's sister or close friend)]

We love you.

[Chandler B.]

Thank you for listening.

[Courtney Grow]

Bye. Love you guys. Bye. Is this thing on?

[Caitlin Bristow]

I'm Caitlin Bristow, host of off the vine podcast, where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness.

[Chandler B.]

Na na na na na na na.

[Lauren B.]

Na na na na na na na.

[Caitlin Bristow]

Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elise Meyers.

[Courtney Grow]

Just like in this, like, business jacket, Like, I would love some tacos.

[Caitlin Bristow]

Heidi d', Amelio, Big brother's Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened, and we're gonna get through it.

[Courtney Grow]

What'd I do?

[Caitlin Bristow]

And so many more. So come hang out with us. Hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable, because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow rate and review off the vine podcast wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Chandler B.]

Us.

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[Courtney Grow]

This is my kind of place.

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And don't miss the man made nightmares in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein or the World Ending Chaos in 28 Days Later. Something in the blood, all the scares, all for free. Pluto TV Stream now pay Never Everybody's.

[Lauren B.]

Heard of Macy's famous Thanksgiving Day parade. It's practically a tradition to watch it in our household. When I heard Macy's was doing a parade of deals. Yes, a daily parade of new one day only deals through Thanksgiving, I was like, cancel my plans. I'm going to be busy adding to cards heart.

[Chandler B.]

So this parade of deals, it's like a daily dose of excitement when it comes to holiday shopping for my friends and family. I'm a deal seeker, okay? And Macy's has great deals on Dyson vacuums, Ninja blenders, and the classic large ugg fluff throw blankets. They're the most beautiful blankets you've ever seen.

[Lauren B.]

And it doesn't stop there. 30 to 40 off fragrances from brands like Marc Jacobs and Gucci. 30 off Sunday Riley skincare, diamond tennis bracelets that's deeply discounted and cashmere sweaters under $50. So if you're like me and love that. Ugh. What's today's deal moment? Make checking the Macy's app your new morning ritual.

[Chandler B.]

The Parade of deals runs November 2 through November 27. So get in there before the good stuff's gone. Shop now@macy's.com or in store.