304: Layla from Momtok Spills All about S3 of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Summary

Pop Apologists – Ep. 304: Layla from Momtok Spills All about S3 of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Podcast by PodcastOne | Date: Nov 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, sisters Lauren and Chandler are joined by Layla, breakout star of Hulu’s Secret Lives of Mormon Wives (“Momtok”), to debrief on all the drama from Season 3. Layla gets candid about confronting Jesse, the Marciano scandals, the complicated friendship dynamics, and her experience navigating Mormon culture and reality TV. The conversation also dives into personal growth, representation, and behind-the-scenes details from filming.

Fans of reality TV, especially docuseries exploring female friendship and complex social circles, will find plenty to chew on.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Confronting Jesse About Marciano

• [02:24] Layla’s Nerves and Motivation

  • Layla discusses the anxiety leading up to her on-camera confrontation, knowing the disclosure could jeopardize Jesse’s marriage and business.
  • “I was just thinking, like, the long term effects of it. I’ve dealt with my parents cheating... I know how that can affect your children too.” — Layla [02:24]
  • She clarifies she had no intention of exposing Jesse, and only acted after Marciano unexpectedly implicated Jesse in conversation.

• [03:27] Honesty Versus Drama

  • Jesse's reaction is praised; she appreciates Layla's transparency and doesn't deflect blame.
  • “It wasn’t like, ooh, I caught you. ...It was me... saying, ‘hey, I heard this, I want to give you a chance to tell the girls how you want to.’” — Layla [03:27]

• [04:23] The Marciano Factor

  • Layla and hosts note that Marciano likely would have leaked the story to tabloids if not confronted—telling Jesse directly was the "least bad" outcome.

• [05:46] Timeline

  • Layla met Marciano and told Jesse within one or two days—she waited to share in person.

2. Jesse’s Response & Lie Detector Scene

• [06:54] Jesse’s Openness

  • Hosts reflect on Jesse’s willingness to take a lie detector test, her straightforward approach, and transparency with her husband Jordan—even with him physically present for the awkward “sex text” reveal.
  • “At that point, it’s already all out there. Might as well own up to the full truth.” — Layla [06:19]
  • “She wasn’t even mad at you for bringing it up, which was so impressive.” — Lauren [03:15]

• [07:26] The Infamous Texts

  • Layla and hosts laugh about Jesse using old texts as proof of innocence.
  • “I can prove that we didn’t have sex just by the way we were texting about sex.” — Jesse, quoted by the hosts [07:26]
  • The conversation gets candid and comic as they parse the cringey nature of the texts and Marciano’s on-camera bravado.

3. Demi, Assault Allegations & Group Dynamics

• [11:12] Demi’s Allegation

  • The group discusses the shift mid-season to allegations against Marciano by Demi.
  • Tension arises as the women feel unable to question Demi’s version of events without being seen as “victim shaming.”
  • “It was just talking in an endless circle... It was all of these things, just constant.” — Layla [12:17]

• [12:34] Inconsistencies & Collusion

  • Chandler and Lauren flag the oddity that Demi’s husband Brett was apparently aware of Marciano’s alleged actions, but continued to encourage close contact for strategic reasons.
  • “If that’s what happened to your wife, I don’t understand... why they’re protecting the man that did that to you.” — Layla [13:04]

• [13:51] Manipulation Accusations

  • Layla and the hosts agree some interactions (e.g., comparing trauma between women) felt highly manipulative, and that other women showed commendable sensitivity under pressure.

4. Layla’s Current Relationship with Demi

• [17:18] No Friendship, Just Cordiality

  • Layla says she keeps Demi at arm’s length after seeing her behavior: “If she could do that to Jesse... she could easily f over anyone else.”

• [18:42] Demi’s “Coaching” & Intimidation Tactics

  • Layla refuses to be manipulated, saying Demi “puts a weird spell on your brain.” She asserts her independence from Demi’s groupthink and labels her a “master manipulator.”
  • “She doesn’t want to directly respond to what she’s accused of. She just wants to coach you on how you’re going to look bad.” — Chandler [19:01]

• [21:14] Fear & Legal Threats

  • Layla and hosts speculate that people don't expose Demi due to her frequent legal threats (cease & desist, lawsuits), and that, beneath the bluster, Demi is “a scared little girl” using aggression as protection.

5. Whitney’s Arc & Production Insights

• [22:40] Whitney’s Redemption
  • Layla feels Whitney’s defensive “I’m only here for Dancing with the Stars” stance was self-protective, and she’s proud of Whitney’s growth.
  • Their friendship is good, and she urges grace for Whitney and other castmates, noting the effect of Mormon upbringing on emotional maturity.
• [25:36] Filming Logistics
  • The show films over several months; cast are filmed 5+ days per week, 5+ hours a day depending on storylines.

6. On Motherhood and Privacy

• [29:10] Protecting Their Kids
  • Layla explains why some choose not to feature their children: “They didn’t sign up for this world... I just don’t want them to be pulled into it.”
  • The show is more about the women as individuals than “mom life.”

7. Other Standout Segments

• DadTok and Clout Chasers — [29:21]
  • Joking about the “dad” influencers in their circle, Layla names husbands who are there just to support their wives as the real MVPs. She expresses skepticism about men more interested in online fame than relationships.
• Dating, Co-parenting & Layla’s Ex — [33:49–36:16]
  • Layla gets personal on navigating dating in Utah as reality TV cast; discusses co-parenting struggles with her ex, who’s unsupportive and critical of her career.
  • “He tells me all the time that my job is the devil’s work.” — Layla [36:02]
• Mormon Community Backlash — [36:24–37:29]
  • The show initially faced skepticism and backlash from active Mormons concerned about “misrepresentation.” Layla stresses they never claimed to be poster children, just truthful about personal experiences.

8. Representation and Personal Growth

• [41:21] Natural Hair Journey

  • Layla thanks Jesse for handling her decision to see a Black hairstylist with grace. She shares how embracing her own identity has helped her mental health.
  • “Your differences give you strength, and you shouldn’t have to look at yourself as any less than because you don’t look like people around you.” — Layla [42:02]

• [43:04] Vulnerability on TV

  • Layla and hosts discuss the importance and impact of sharing struggles with mental health, divorce, family abuse, and sexuality on the show.
  • The cast intends their openness to make others feel less alone.

• [45:44] Sexuality, Taboo & Utah Upbringing

  • Layla and Lauren connect on challenges around female pleasure and sexuality in religious contexts, highlighting personal experiences meant to break those taboos.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Confronting Difficult Truths:
  • “It was really a hard conversation to have...” — Layla [03:04]
• On Lying and Redemption:
  • “If you’re getting caught in something and you’re trying to be honest … just getting all the skeletons out of the closet is the best idea.” — Layla [06:34]
• On Demi’s Manipulation:
  • “When she’s caught in a hot place, she will point fingers. She’ll start name calling ... I’m for once actually using my own brain and thinking for myself.” — Layla [19:16], [19:27]
• Motherhood & Privacy:
  • “They didn’t sign up for this world … just keeping them and protecting them is my top priority.” — Layla [29:10]
• On Vulnerability’s Impact:
  • “If I can just help one person, that’s, like, it’s worth it for me.” — Layla [44:00]

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Rapid-Fire/Listener Questions (Selected)

• On Marrying Young: [47:13]
  • Take your time unless you truly know. Living together first helps.
• On “Dancing with the Stars” Offer: [49:20]
  • Layla would do it, but not now with another cast member, noting the real friendship strains caused by competition.
• Utah Trends She Loves/Hates: [50:44]
  • Loves Swig sodas; is over “hair blindness” (too many extensions).
• Taylor & Dakota’s Relationship: [52:14]
  • Layla hopes they’re truly over but doubts it, citing intense attachment.

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Behind-the-Scenes & Reality TV Production Notes

• Timeline Confusion: The show’s production schedule and editing (pickups, timelines, reunion filming) blur the chronology for viewers as storylines are condensed for drama.
• Filming Balance: Most women still maintain jobs/motherhood alongside the show.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Marciano drama, confronting Jesse: 02:24–05:47
• Jesse’s texts, lie detector, Jordan present: 06:54–08:22
• Pivot to Demi scandal: 11:12–14:35
• Layla on no real friendship with Demi: 17:18–21:54
• Whitney’s arc/filming logistics: 22:40–27:04
• Motherhood/kids privacy: 29:10–29:18
• Co-parenting & ex’s attitude: 33:49–36:16
• Mormon community response: 36:24–37:29
• Personal journey, hair, self-acceptance: 41:21–43:03
• Listener Q&A: 47:13–52:14

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Style and Tone

• Casual, candid, sometimes irreverent.
• Layla is sharply honest, vulnerable, often self-deprecating, and wields humor to defuse tough subjects. The hosts match her energy, mixing insight with lively banter.

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Takeaways

This episode is a masterclass in unscripted, real talk about reality TV, Mormon culture, and complicated female friendships. Layla is authentic and witty, offering no-holds-barred commentary on the season’s drama, her personal struggles, and the lessons she’s learned, making this a must-listen for both die-hard fans and newcomers to the show.

Transcript

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

Well, well, well. We are joined today by the one and only Layla from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Hit show season three is out.

[Lauren]

It is.

[Chandler]

Can you even believe it? She's here in the flesh, ready to spill, ready to talk about it all. Thank you for coming on the show.

[Layla]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. Well, we're so happy you're here because we were able to devour the season early, which felt like so VIP and so fun for us.

[Chandler]

I love it.

[Lauren]

And we have so many questions about every. All the drama, everything that went down. So I would love if we could to like dive into the plot line and stuff that happened, make sure we get through these questions. My first one is I wanna go to the moment towards the beginning of the season. It might've been the first episode where you get in the car and you're confronting Jesse. Yep. How nervous were you for that confrontation?

[Layla]

Oh, my gosh. So nervous. I was sick to my stomach from the second I found out about it. With Marciano. It Wasn't like, something that I was, like, stoked to tell Jesse about, obviously. Cause I knew what could come from it. I knew that, like, her marriage could be at stake. People would possibly, like, you know, give her hate and her business could be affected. Like, I was just thinking, like, the long term effects of it. I've dealt with, like, my parents cheating on each other growing up, and, like, I know how that can affect your children too. So I was like, Jovi and Jagger. Like, I was just thinking of every situation possible, and it sucked a lot. I feel like people. I've seen, like, things online already of people being like, why would Layla even, like, bring this out? Like, why was she sticking her nose where it doesn't belong? First of all, I had no idea he was even gonna say anything about Jesse.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

I truly thought that he was gonna, like, say some things about. To me, which, honestly, at that point, I feel like everyone wanted to know more details. I had no idea it was gonna be a Jesse situation. So it was hard. It was a really hard conversation to have.

[Lauren]

I think it speaks to how great Jesse is. We've had Jesse on the show. She's absolutely lovely. She handled it so well. Like, she wasn't even mad at you for bringing it up, which was so impressive.

[Layla]

Yeah, No, I appreciated her understanding where I was coming from because it wasn't like a. Ooh, like, I caught you. Like, I'm like, I wasn't. You know what I mean? It wasn't like a slimy thing of me trying to do. It was me honestly just reminding me to be like, hey, like, I heard this. Like, I want to give you a chance to tell the girls how you want to.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And also, like, take control of this narrative in the way that you feel is best for you.

[Lauren]

That's such a good point because ultimately, like, he told you that on camera, so you kind of. You have to clue her in. You guys are on a show. You're doing your job essentially.

[Chandler]

And she seemed to really get it, which was great.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I think Jesse just throughout the show, I think we see, like, you know, and you'll. Everyone will see this as they continue watching the, you know, last few episodes. Like, we watch Jesse and Demi kind of handle two similar situations. And the way that Jesse just, like, took it on the chin and the way that you addressed it with her, I think it actually speaks to, like, real friendship there versus just like, yeah, I'm gonna catch you in something.

[Layla]

Like, ha, ha.

[Chandler]

Try to get out of this.

[Layla]

Yeah. And I think what we Also need to remember, too, is the person that Marciano is, if he was really willing to come onto our show and. And drop this bomb and also lie about what happened, he probably would have brought an online.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And then Jesse would have had no idea, and then she would have woken up to it being in the tabloid. So, like, honestly, I feel like, if anything, one of her good friends telling her was the best way for her to find out.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chandler]

I'm curious. How long was it between. Like, when you met up with him and. And then when you confronted her?

[Layla]

Like, a day. A day or two days?

[Lauren]

For real?

[Layla]

That's really quick.

[Chandler]

I think, with the viewers, we obviously got the end. We got season two, and then now we're getting season three. So it's kind of hard to piece together the. The actual timeline.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And I. I mean, that. Actually, that's, like, so great that it was, like, you immediately heard it, and then you immediately were like, okay, I'm going to go straight to you and tell you, hey, this is happening.

[Layla]

I honestly, I wanted to tell her sooner. Like, I remember leaving the hotel where I met up with Marciano, and I just was having to, like, resist calling her, but I didn't want to freak her out until I was able to see her in person and kind of, like, give her, like, the full thing. So I feel like if I heard that, I'd be like, what the. And, like, hang up the phone and, like, not want to, like, talk about it. So, like, I'm gonna wait until I can see her, you know, talk her off the ledge if she needs to and, you know, just give her the information that she needs. But, yeah, it was crappy one day, two days, until I was able to tell her.

[Lauren]

That's insane.

[Layla]

I know.

[Lauren]

I have a kind of uncomfortable question to ask, but Sheena said on her podcast that he stayed the night in LA at her hotel.

[Layla]

I don't believe that. Honestly, I don't know Sheena that well, but she was also one of the people that was messaging with Demi behind the scenes and kind of making the plan to make this come out. So I don't really believe.

[Chandler]

Interesting anything that she.

[Lauren]

Okay, so you believe, Jesse, that I.

[Layla]

Think at this point, everything's already coming out and she's already getting caught cheating. So at that point, what would those, like, small, minuscule details do, you know? What would. What would lying about that even further, like, help her, you know?

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

At that point, it's already all out there. Might as well, like, own up to the full truth.

[Lauren]

I Think maybe if you're trying to save your marriage and, you know, she doesn't want Jordan to find out or, like, it makes it so much better that they only kissed. It could be a good story on some level.

[Layla]

I could see that too. But I just think. I don't know, I just think if you're getting caught in something and like, you're trying to be honest and like, move forward from it, I feel like just getting all of the skeletons out of the closet is like, the best idea. And I just. I don't know, I feel like, yeah, it's true. Jesse being so willing to, like, do the lie detector test and, like, spill it all. I just feel like you wouldn't continue to lie, you know?

[Lauren]

Yeah, Jesse.

[Chandler]

And I'm going to go back to this again because, you know, we'll get into the Demi situation. Jesse did not seem to struggle at all with her side of the story. Yeah, there was no, like, word salad or, you know, mental gymnastics about what happened between her and Marciana. It was like, this is what happened. This is where I messed up. This is what I'm, you know, this is how I told Jordan. This is how we're working through it. I. I feel like there was no shape shifting of her narrative, which I think led me to believe her more well.

[Lauren]

And she had the sex to back it up.

[Chandler]

That was one of the most amazing moments when she's like, I can prove that we didn't have sex. Sex just by the way we were texting about sex.

[Layla]

I know. Which is hilarious.

[Unknown]

So.

[Lauren]

Well, and also, Jordan is literally feet behind her as she's reading these aloud. I.

[Layla]

That was so awkward. Cuz I remember just, like, looking back and you could just see that Jordan.

[Lauren]

Was, like, pissed cuz, like, could hear.

[Layla]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, it was like the distance of like, me and you right now. He was right there. So awkward.

[Lauren]

Did she not realize?

[Layla]

I don't think she did in the moment. I think she was just, like, very set on, like, making. I just think she wanted all of us to, like, believe her.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

At that moment. So I feel like she's doing whatever it could take. And I feel like she just wasn't, like, in the right headspace that moment. So I think honestly, she probably forgot that Jordan was there and they arrived separately that day. She probably just honestly forgot.

[Lauren]

I don't know.

[Layla]

I was like, looking back though, watching that back. I was like, oh, I mean, God.

[Lauren]

It'S one of the best scenes.

[Layla]

It's so insane. He's so uncomfortable and then he leaves, too.

[Lauren]

I'm like, the sex are so cringe.

[Layla]

Oh, so cringy.

[Lauren]

Oh, my.

[Layla]

So cringey.

[Chandler]

I mean, it made me believe her, though, because. Because they talk around it. They're, you know, like.

[Layla]

Exactly.

[Chandler]

I guess I'll just, you know, replay one of them from my memory. But one of them is like, could you handle me? Or something like that.

[Layla]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lauren]

Like. Like, I want to find out.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Especially for that man.

[Chandler]

I'm like, it's like, okay, well, if you haven't hooked up, how would she.

[Layla]

Not know that she can't handle me?

[Chandler]

They would be sending other materials back and forth.

[Lauren]

Exactly.

[Chandler]

It would be, you know, different wording, different literature.

[Layla]

Exactly.

[Lauren]

Okay. One thing also in Jesse's favor now I'm fully coming around to believe that they didn't hook up is you were.

[Chandler]

Believing it before this.

[Lauren]

I know. I don't know. It's just hard for me to imagine, like, two 30 year olds in a hotel room are just kissing.

[Chandler]

It's very, like, wasn't it BYU Covid. I think it's two. Wasn't it two kisses or something? I think, like, I don't think that they were just like, fooling around all night long. I think there were maybe two. Two physical moments. I have a PhD now in what happened between Jesse and Marciano.

[Lauren]

Well, I could just see Marciano. Not like, I understand why he would lie because it's embarrassing for him that they only kissed. Like, I feel like it's a notch on his belt. It's like, yeah, we, you know.

[Layla]

Yeah, well, he took the cial.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

That was another moment where I was.

[Layla]

Just like, this show gives every scene for him. Like, I get, like, if you drink all night, like, you need, like, help. Like, ew.

[Lauren]

Well, so pretty up here. When he looks at the camera and he's like, I don't have a rectangle.

[Layla]

Literally out of a movie. So funny.

[Chandler]

One more time on that greasy man. The talks is really working for him. He is. His skin is incredible. Well, I think he is. He's getting a lot of units.

[Lauren]

Oh, really?

[Layla]

But his face doesn't move.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Layla]

He's stuck in, like, a space like this, like, the whole time. And like, I don't even know how many times that man applies lip gloss. Oh, my gosh. I can't stand him. I'm like, I. We need him off of this. Get him away.

[Chandler]

We're not going to get into all the results of the lie detector test, but I, you know, the Botox was. He timed that right. Because it wasn't going to reveal anything. You know, it wasn't going to give him away.

[Layla]

No emotions, whatever.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Okay. I think we should get to another Marciano dynamic.

[Chandler]

Let's stay with him. Stay with the greasy man.

[Lauren]

So the first half of the season is really all about Jesse and Marciano. Yes. And then we pivot to Demi and Marciano. Yes. And the, you know, basically the accusation is that she was flirting with him at Vanderholm Villa and they kissed. Right. And she says that she was actually assaulted. And so it seems like all of the girls are having to walk this really, like, thin tightrope about. Are we outwardly skeptical of her story? Is that gonna make us seem really insensitive or, you know, can we be honest about the fact that this is kind of sketchy to us?

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Where. Where does that ultimately land? Like, where is everyone with this now?

[Layla]

I think everyone is at the place right now in the situation that we were very confused. And I think some women still are. I feel like I will always be confused with the situation, but I think all of us want to make it, like, very clear. We would never not believe someone if they claim that they're assaulted. Like, that's an awful thing to happen to you. And if that did happen, like, we have nothing but condolences for you. That's awful. But what we saw in the villa and then the behavior after the villa with him and staying in contact and, you know, FaceTiming him and sending him food and just kind of keeping him close was odd. And I feel like if I was in that situation, I probably wouldn't operate the same way. But then Demi always uses the argument, well, you can't control how I acted it. And we were like, okay, like, at the end of the day, no one's going to see eye to eye in the situation, and we all just kind of have to, like, let it go in a way. And I feel like that's kind of what we had to do, because it was just talking in an endless circle where we were all just like, we. This doesn't make sense. And then it was like, you can't shame a victim. And then it was just. It was all of these things, just constant.

[Lauren]

Well, let's say that she was not telling the truth. She'll never admit to it, because then that's, like, so bad to accuse someone falsely. So she will, you know, die on this hill. So it just puts everyone in that situation where, you know, for her, it was a great way to end the conversation. And it did yeah, exactly.

[Chandler]

I think one thing, one line of events that doesn't make sense to me is the fact that she says Brett knew about everything. That Brett was totally clued in. And if your husband knows about this man in your life who assaulted you, but then he also, at one point, was like, we should send him doordash, and is okay with you kind of keeping him close. And even, I guess, you know, with the intention there being to, like, keep him close so that he doesn't turn on you. But I just don't. That's one thing that will just never add up to me.

[Layla]

That's one thing that always confused us, too. Cause the keeping. Again, like, if you. If that's what happened to your wife, I don't understand what keeping him close was gonna benefit them. Like, he's the one that did you wrong, so why didn't you want him to, like, suffer and, like. I don't know. I just. I never understood the, like, not wanting to make it, like, public and things like that. It was just. It was just interesting. I just didn't know why they're protecting the man that did that to you.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Layla]

Just doesn't make sense.

[Chandler]

Well, and, you know, the fact that they were still staying close to him to hatch something behind the scenes against Jesse, I think that's the other part of this, is that, yes, there is this. These accusations against Marciano from Demi, but then there's also, like, them in collusion, trying to make Jesse look bad. I'm trying to, like, out, you know, ruin Jesse's marriage and, you know, just have this, like, scandal hit her.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And so, yeah, I just. This situation continues to confuse. And I think everyone handled it really well. I mean, I think especially, like, you know, Macy and Mikayla, who, like, have dealt with. Have been really public about, you know, experiences that have been terrible experiences that have happened in their life. I. I really commend them for their sensitivity. I think amidst a confusing situation where you feel a little bit like someone just is roping you into something because you were a victim, too. Yeah.

[Layla]

No, 100%. And the comparison and saying, well, you have been too, like Macy. Like, I just feel like it was very inappropriate. I feel like it's. And it's not to discredit what Demi went through or didn't go through. It's just. It was a very. I would never do that.

[Chandler]

It was manipulative.

[Layla]

It was manipulative. And I feel like it wasn't fair to the girls, especially knowing how much trauma to this day those women face from what they've experienced in their life. I just felt like it was very, very telling of who to me, it's.

[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

How would you say that your friendship has evolved with Demi?

[Layla]

I wouldn't really say that there's a friendship at the moment. I think that we're very cordial. Like, I see her at work events here and there, when I go to LA sometimes to support Whitney and stuff for Dancing with the Stars and Jen when she was still there. We see each other, and I don't want there to be, like, hostility. I feel like we already work in a very high tense work environment where we're already fighting with each other and, you know, there's already so much trauma. I don't want to feel like I can't sit next to you at a Dancing with the stars tape fiend and feel like you're gonna, like, kill me, you know, Like, I just want to be able to, like, coexist. And I feel like that's where I'm gonna stand with Demi. Like, I'll never really try to forge a deeper relationship with her ever again just cause I've seen her true colors now. And if she could do that to Jesse, who at the time was her best friend, like, hanging out all the time, calling each other all the time, like, as close as you can get. If she can do that to somebody like that, she would easily f over anyone else. So I feel like it's just like I've seen what I needed to see from Demi and I don't wish her ill intent. I wish her, you know, happy life, but very, like, arm's distance. Yeah, you can do your thing over there. I'll be over here.

[Chandler]

Smart. Yeah. I think you really, this season, like, really did find your voice. Like, I was so impressed with kind of the way you, like, stood up for yourself and handled, like, really tough situations. And one of those situations was with Demi at the. I don't remember which event. Or maybe it was for the water cup event. Water cup. The act.

[Layla]

Was it the one at the plane.

[Chandler]

Or it was like, everyone was like, in cute dresses.

[Layla]

The other one. Okay, Hydro jug.

[Chandler]

Hydro jug, yes. Water cup. At the hydro jug event. To me, like, you guys kind of get into it. You confront her about some stuff and then she starts coaching you. And the way that she talks to some of the women. And, you know, we saw her coach Jen. You know, we heard the voice memo or whatever. Like whatever Jen was recording.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

The way she coaches you about. You shouldn't be acting this way. You should, you know, be supporting me. It was kind of crazy to see how she doesn't even want to like, directly respond to what she's accused of. She just wants to like, coach you on how you're going to look bad.

[Layla]

Yeah. It's the deflection that we've seen time and time again from Demi that when she's caught in a hot place, she will point fingers. She'll start name calling. I mean, in that scene, she's like, you're a dumbass. You're.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And like, things like that. I'm like, I'm actually not dumbass and I'm not ignorant. Like, I'm for once actually using my own brain and thinking for myself for once. And you're not going to like, coerce me to think the way that you want me to. I feel like I've done this for like a long time with me. Because to me is very convincing.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Like, when she has her mindset on something, it's like hard not to believe her. It's like this weird like spell she puts on your brain or something. But I feel like I finally like broke free from that in a way. And I was just like, I'm not like, I'm not doing this anymore. And I totally finally, like, was just looking at her. I'm like, you're just not a good person. And it sucks. I feel like for a long time, I feel like a lot of people put to me on like this pedestal because like, she's. She is very well spoken and you know, she like kind of help holds herself well and things like that. I feel like you. For a long time I looked up to Demi in a way until I finally figured out who Demi is to her core. And she's the last thing I'd want to be.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chandler]

I think you realize she is a master manipulator for sure. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I mean, this is just kind of an aside, but we had a guest on the show. I won't say who, but she has, you know, knows Demi.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And she was just telling us some crazy stories that are just way predate the show. And I think that she is a. She's a very interesting person.

[Layla]

That's the thing. It's not like this is like a. It's sad, but this isn't a one off. Like Demi's just going through a rough couple of years. Like I've heard a lot of Things too. From great vine in Utah. Cause, I mean, Utah people, we love to talk.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And I've heard a lot of things, but I feel like, again, like, we've always kind of just like, excused it. And I'm a big. Give a person the benefit of the doubt and say, prove me wrong. And I wanted to, like, see her out and kind of learn for myself. And, you know, we all did. That's for sure.

[Lauren]

Do you think that none of this. None of the. I don't know, none of this stuff has come out about Demi because people are afraid of her?

[Layla]

Maybe. I mean, she does love to throw around legal things and say that she's going to sue this person and going to send this person a cease and desist and all these things. So I feel like maybe, like, legally people are scared of her, but I'm like, she doesn't have the money to do so. So, like, I don't know. I think Demi is kind of, again, she uses, like, the mean words. I feel like she comes for, like, your character and, like, things like that. She, like, is very aggressive with how she, like, argues. I mean, we've seen it now.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Three seasons now. She's very aggressive, and I think that maybe intimidates people, but I feel like I've now kind of being with her and having multiple fights with her now. I feel like I just see, like, a scared little girl that, like, uses those things to kind of protect herself. And I kind of. If anything, I just kind of feel bad for her.

[Lauren]

Ye.

[Layla]

You need to, like, work through some things.

[Chandler]

And I think she's made her bed and now she's laying in it, like, with the audience and with her, you know, with her friends. But moving on from Demi, unless you have other questions, Lauren, I want to know, where does everyone stand with Whitney right now? I mean, we saw such a. I don't know, such a bad start to everything with Whitney when she said, yeah, I'm only here because I want to. I want to audition for Dancing with the Stars. I'm like, okay, I guess points for honesty. Um, but. But I feel like towards the end of the season, like, hearts were softened. He was some Mormon lingo.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And cheeks turned. Cheeks were turned. I don't know why that sounded sexy. Cheeks were turned. Sounded like ass cheeks.

[Layla]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Get your mind out of the gutter.

[Chandler]

Anyway, where does everyone stand now? How do you feel?

[Layla]

I feel good with Winnie, me and her in a really good place right now. I honestly think her saying that I'm only here for dancing with the stars. I think it was kind of a way to protect herself. I think that she's been obviously in the hot seat a lot in this group with particularly some of the women, and that's a hard place to be in. So I feel like naturally you just kind of say, what do you have? Say what you need to. To protect yourself, protect your heart and, like, your feelings. And I feel like that's what she said to kind of, like, cover up the fact that I feel like she was there for friendships.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And I feel like she would admit that now, but. No, I. I love what I think Whitney, she loves hard, and I feel like that's why it comes out sometimes aggressive in the way that it does. And sometimes I just feel like she's just like. She doesn't think of the moment. That's okay. Like, that's, you know, something that you learn with time. But also, like, I just feel like, give her grace. I feel like Whitney, you know, she did some things in season one that weren't the best, but I also think that she's human, you know? Yeah. And I feel like she's trying her best right now and just. I'm overall just, like, really proud of her right now. And Dancing with the Stars, she's thriving. For sure. She's thriving. Like, this is her element.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It's amazing.

[Chandler]

She's doing so well. I mean, I'm really so impressed with her dancing.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I mean, I think obviously season one, Whitney was going through a lot, like, a lot personally with Connor, and I think that, yeah, seeing, like, the relationships between you guys and her all kind of evolve in, like, a. A more, like, deep way. I think, like, we've seen new sides to her that I connect to in a way that, like, I didn't before. And I think I realized. I don't think Whitney is some, like, master puppeteer.

[Layla]

No.

[Chandler]

Behind the scenes, trying to, like, you know, weave her little web. In some ways. I think other people are on the show, really one person. And.

[Layla]

Wait, who?

[Chandler]

Demi. Obviously.

[Layla]

I was like, I'm trying to think. I'm like.

[Chandler]

I'm like Layla. I'm like, me. No, but I, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to bash Demi too much. I just. I feel like I'm, like, seeing some character development from Whitney in a way that I'm, like, so happy to see.

[Layla]

No. And it's hard. I feel like people need to remember that we're in a very. Again, like I said earlier, like, a very high tent situation. Where you're dealing with real friendship drama on national tv and people can pick us apart all they want online, but, like, we're still learning and we're growing and we're evolving. And also, like, a lot of these women, too, like, they grew up in, like, Mormon areas where I feel like, honestly, like, a lot of their emotional stability was a little stunted by, like, the way that they were raised and what they've gone through. So I feel like, just, like, give some of the girls grace on this show. Like, we're all trying our best and we're all like, humans.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I have a logistics question. So Whitney moves to St. George at the beginning of the season, which seemed crazy to me. It's like you're on this hit Hulu show. You're gonna move somewhere. That's you. So you basically force yourself off of it.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

How long. How long was the season filmed?

[Layla]

I literally don't even remember. How long do we film this one? A few months.

[Lauren]

A few months.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

And so she really did just move away. Yeah. And not care about being on the show.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

I think her family all lives down in St. George. It's like her mom and, like, all of her siblings and stuff are down there. So I feel like it made sense for her in that way.

[Lauren]

But career is in Utah County. It's not like.

[Layla]

I think she's a little bit of a runner. I think really done it before in the past. I think with, like, her move to Hawaii.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

She's going. Things with Connor, I think that she likes to isolate.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

You know, I feel like that's just how some people handle hard times. So I feel like that was maybe like, kind of that. And I feel like now you can tell, like, when she's doing better emotionally and, like, with, like, things going on in her life, she rekindles and she's closer to people and stuff like that. So I feel like that was just definitely like a I need space, I'm gonna run away kind of thing.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah.

[Chandler]

Knee jerk reaction.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

What? And also, I was a little bit confused because on the reunion, it seemed like her and Gen got Dancing with the Stars. But then during the season, it's kind of like, oh, you know, you're going to audition for Dancing with the Stars. So was the reunion filmed, like, after some of these scenes?

[Layla]

No, that was filmed. It was.

[Chandler]

It was.

[Layla]

We all auditioned to, like, be picked for Dancing Stars. Me, Jesse did. Taylor.

[Lauren]

I don't remember.

[Layla]

I remember Taylor did. All of us women did.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And then we found out at the reunion. So that was like, after we wrapped filming season three, we found out then.

[Chandler]

What I've kind of gathered is I think you guys just filmed a ton. And then they cut it and then.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

And they were like, okay, this will be the end of season two. And then you did press for season two while you're still filming season three.

[Layla]

No. So it was actually. The time limit is kind of confusing because we found out about all of the Marciano stuff and I met with him during a pickup week.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Layla]

And we do, like, the missing scenes that we need to, like, add in and like, interviews and stuff like that. So that wasn't even supposed to be like, in season two. This was something that, like, we found out about. And then I went and like. So, yeah, like, that wasn't even supposed to, like, be in the thing. So, like, it was kind of like all over the place. But the Dancing of stars one was like, actually, like, that's when we found out that day.

[Lauren]

Gotcha. Okay, interesting. What is a typical week of filming? Like, how many days a week are you filming?

[Layla]

I'd say like five.

[Lauren]

Five. Okay. And what is that? A full day?

[Layla]

Like, no, it'll be like. I feel like it depends on the girl.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Like, Taylor, I bet that girl's filming probably like 10 hour days. Really?

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

I feel like if you have, like, more going on, going on, you're gonna be filming more. I feel like this last season that we were filming. Yeah. I'd have like five, five to six days a week. Like five hour days or something.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

So nothing like, too crazy, which is good because I feel like all of us still want to be moms and completely have to, like, work and stuff like that.

[Lauren]

So it's nice. Yeah.

[Chandler]

One thing that I think is really interesting is that a lot of you guys don't show your kids on the show. And I think. I think that's kind of a powerful step. I know some people do.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And that's amazing and great for them if they. If they choose to do that. But yeah, I just think that's interesting and it really is about your, like, kind of adult, independent lives versus you being moms. You know, so much. Obviously, like, Macy and Michaela are pregnant during this, and I guess so was Jen last season. So I don't know. Just. That's one thing that I've noticed.

[Layla]

No, I love it. I think again, like, do what you want with your kids. I think just me personally, I just. They didn't sign up for this world. And I'M still learning what this world looks like and, like, what I need to do in it. And, like, you know, it's intense, and I just don't want them to be pulled into it. And people say comments about them and things like that. I just feel like I'm just trying to protect them. And honestly, I feel like, again, the show isn't really about us being moms. I guess we're moms and, like, it's a big part of our lives, but it's more of just, like, our individual journeys and then mom is still there. But, you know, just keeping them and protecting them, I feel like, is my just top priority.

[Chandler]

So I think it's really. I think it's really, like, admirable of all of you guys to.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

To kind of, like, keep, you know, their little bubble protective and safe.

[Layla]

Exactly.

[Lauren]

So I want to talk a little bit about dad talk.

[Layla]

Oh, God, that group.

[Lauren]

What kind of a business enterprise is dad talk?

[Layla]

No, are they.

[Chandler]

Are they getting brand deals?

[Layla]

Yeah, I think some of them do, but I know for a fact Jordan's gotten a couple ones because of Jesse.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Like, there's been, like, in his contract or something. I think it was like, I don't know who it was. Some brand was like, Jesse has to be in the videos. So I'm like, you're not even getting your own brand deals. You still have to, like, skate off of your wife. I'm like, you.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So I think when they.

[Chandler]

When they reference it as dad talk, when they are in their own interviews, and then they're like, you know, I don't think they go as far as to say, like, this isn't what dad talk is about, but they definitely will say, you know, it's like, it's a. It's a thing for them. Yeah. And it. I can't tell how I feel about it.

[Layla]

I don't know how I feel about it either. I love the husbands in the group that, like, are, like, I'm just here for my wife. And, like, I just want to support, like, Connor, most green flag husband ever. Jace, Jacob, like, yeah, I just love the husbands that you can just tell that they truly are just here to support their wives and, like, make them feel happy and, like, if they make content here and there, like, awesome. But I feel like you can just tell the ones that are kind of, like, in it, like, and that's fine if you want to make, like, a name for yourself. Like, let's also don't forget, like, what your catalyst was. Yeah, that's Your wife.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And there's a fine line between supportive and then thirsty.

[Layla]

Yeah, yourself.

[Chandler]

And I've always said this. I have to be the thirstier person in the relationship. That's just a healthy balance.

[Lauren]

So we recently moved into this new house and cake and walked up to me the first night we're there and he goes where are the gummies? All of our stuff is in boxes. But you better believe that in the special box of items I knew we would need for the first night was a bottle of early bird gummies.

[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I have a question.

[Lauren]

When you were dating In Utah. Do you feel like you could very easily tell which guys were, you know, interested in potentially being on the show?

[Chandler]

Oh, they're like, what are you filming this week? I'd love to pick you on a.

[Layla]

Date that or just, like, the overdoing it with questions about, like, filming or, like, just, like, what this world's like. I remember going on, like, a date with this one guy and we just went and, like, grabbed, like, drinks at, like, swig, of course. And we just went on, like, a drive. And I'm not even kidding. It was like an hour and a half long day, like, very short. The whole entire time I was asking questions about, like, so, like, what's, like, filming, like, and, like, what is like, this, like, world, like, and like, like, like, brand deals and like, just every.

[Lauren]

Like, oh, my God, nitty gritty question.

[Layla]

About, like, what this, like, world is like. And I was just so uncomfortable and, like, weirded out by it. So I feel like that's like, a guy that you can, like, easily tell, like, you're not. Did you even ask me, like, where I grew up? Yeah. Like, did you even ask me, like, how many siblings I have?

[Chandler]

Right.

[Layla]

You just wanted to know, like, what this is like in this world. Like, and I get it. Like, I get the curiosity, but it's also, like, you can just tell.

[Lauren]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chandler]

You can smell those clout chasers from a mile away. Exactly. I am curious, like, how. How is co parenting going with your ex? If you share.

[Layla]

No, I'll share it day by day. I have hope that one day we'll get to a more, you know, civil place from his end, unfortunately. I feel like there's still a little bit of hurt feelings from his side. I feel like also just him seeing, like, the level of success I think I've gotten over the last, like, year and a half since, like, me and him separated. I think is hard for him. I just feel like he always talked down to me a lot in our marriage and I said, like, this is a joke and he would make fun of, like, me making my social media videos and stuff like that.

[Lauren]

So it's kind of just like an.

[Layla]

F you that, like, he would always give me so much for, like, my content that I used to make, and I'm just like, look what my content, like, got me. Literally, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I think one day, once he kind of, like, drops his, like, ego and his pride, I feel like we can get to, like, a more civil place, hopefully. Because I've been from divorced parents Parents that hate each other and that, like, I feel like that traumatized me more than my parents being divorced. Like, the fighting and them not being able to coexist for, like, me and my sister. I'm like, you guys are grown adults. Yeah, please act like it. And I try to, like, tell him all the time, like, I know what it's like to, like, have parents that hate each other. Like, please, for the love of God, just, like, let's just get along. We don't have to be friends. We don't have to, like, text each other all the time, but, like, we don't have to, like, be me, you know?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

But one day, I mean, just hearing.

[Chandler]

A little bit of that, like, backstory and the fact that he thought, you know, you're doing social media was silly and down to you. I mean, this success that you've had is just, like, the sweetest revenge. You didn't set out to have any revenge, but I just, you know, it's. It just makes you soaring, like, all the more sweet.

[Layla]

Like, I hope that he sees the billboards of my face when he's driving to his nine to five.

[Lauren]

Oh, my God.

[Chandler]

Literally.

[Layla]

And like. But, yeah, social media is a joke, huh?

[Lauren]

So wild. Yeah. What, is he still active?

[Layla]

Yeah, he is.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

So I'm sure that adds a layer too, because he probably. I mean, I. I don't know. I don't want to dwell on him too much, but I'm.

[Chandler]

But I'm sure there's a layer of.

[Lauren]

Like, moral judgment as well. It's like, you know, what you're participating in.

[Chandler]

Is it good? Because he's probably jealous.

[Layla]

He tells me all the time that my job is the devil's work.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Layla]

Literally, he's like, you're working for Satan. He's told me multiple times.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Layla]

I mean, that I've, like, sold my soul. I'm like, oh, my God. I think I'd be a little bit, like, higher if I sold my soul.

[Lauren]

Damn.

[Layla]

I'm just getting started. I didn't sell my soul well, but, yeah, it's crazy. He's a piece of work.

[Lauren]

How has the. Would you say the reception been? I know in the beginning, the Mormon community was not taking kindly to this show. Do you feel like things have chilled out? How have things felt?

[Layla]

I think they have. I think initially when active members found out about the show, I think they thought that we were going to misrepresent. That was, like, the biggest comment. Like, they're not representing us. Like, this isn't an like a representation of like a Mormon, blah, blah. We were never once claiming to be like the perfect spokesperson. We were just saying like, hey, like, I am Mormon or I have a Mormon upbringing, and this is where I'm at. And these are the things that, like, I've experienced my life. And that's literally it. Like, we're not saying that we're perfect Mormon, that we're, you know, a representation. We're just trying to show that, yes, we are Mormon and.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Layla]

That's it, actually. Point blank period.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

So I feel like their initial fear, I, I get to a point. But I also think that the church is also very, very cautious of their image. Yeah, yeah, we, as we know, hyper conscious, honestly, if you would say. And I think initially they're just scared that we were gonna like, shit talk the church and stuff. And I'm like, I don't, I don't care to do that. You guys have enough out there to write for yourself. Yeah, I don't need to do that for you.

[Chandler]

Absolutely. I mean, I think that the show has accelerated some changes within the LDS Church. I mean, I, I'm not gonna say that that the reason why we. Why there are now like, more tank top garments exist is because of secret lives of Mormon wives, but I think that the show accelerated some things that were maybe already in the works or that some things that people already wanted because I don't know, I feel like the church has changed a lot even within the last. Just culturally within the last two or three years. Way faster than it had, you know, the years preceding that.

[Layla]

No, I agree. I feel like it's definitely evolving with time.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Still not for me.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

But I mean, it's great that they're giving. Getting new revelation. I don't know, it's just like that concept just confuses me. But like, I'm glad that the. They're getting new stuff.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

I don't know.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I think what I remember is that you had a tumultuous upbringing and you really loved like the vision of these, like all these families and more Mormons really do project this wholesome, perfect image. And so I think they are like their own best marketing. And so it's. I think it's easy to look at these people who feel it, who. It seems like they have it all figured out. They have these smiling, happy families. Everyone's beautiful and well put together. I'm curious, having kind of gone through joining the church, you know, trying to do that for yourself and then kind of coming out the other side, where maybe that part of your life wasn't the success you wanted it to be, but then you're successful in this other realm. I'm curious if you have anything that surprised you about, like, how your life has evolved, and maybe it's not what you thought it was going to be, but maybe you're glad that that isn't.

[Layla]

No, I feel like I'm. Ultimately, I'm glad that I chose to convert. I feel like there's a lot of things that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for that. Okay. I think I wouldn't have moved to Utah when I was 18. I don't think that I would have, you know, met my partner. I don't. Or my ex. My ex. My baby daddy. I wouldn't have, like, had all those things happen to me. And also, it was kind of like a saving grace for me. And that time in my life, I was going through a lot. I was doing a lot of mental health issues. And like I said, like, my upbringing was, like, really traumatic and a lot of abuse in my household and everything like that. So I feel like it kind of was like my. I don't know, my saving grace and gave me a lot of hope. So I feel like I'm very grateful for the impact that I had in my life in that time.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

But, yeah, no, definitely what got me was just that. Yeah, we. Keeping up with the Joneses. I feel like it's the perfect phrase for a lot of LDS members, is that you think it's all perfect on the outside, for sure. Yeah. And that's what I wanted so badly because I was like, well, my family is a hot freaking mess, and we're not religious, so I think that's what's missing from us. And if I have that, then I'm going to be happy and, like, I'm going to get my happy ever after. And. And I think that I was just very naive and little and didn't, like, look deeply. But, yeah, I think it did a lot of good for me in that time.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And then one day I woke up and I was like, I think I need to actually, like, kind of look some things up on my own and research on my own. Then I was like, oh, oh, no. But, you know.

[Lauren]

So was that really what kind of made you decide you didn't. Didn't want to be.

[Layla]

Yeah. I think I've grown a lot since then. And I feel like also, when I was 16, I wanted to fit in really badly. Like, also this. This season with, like, me sharing, like, my storyline and stuff like that. I was surrounded by predominantly white girls and white boys, and I feel like that's what I wanted was just to fit in. So that's why I would, you know, shape myself to, like, be more, like, my peers around me. And I feel like that was another thing, like, being women, too. Like, okay, that's another thing that can, like, help me fit in more. And, yeah, I feel like I've just kind of finally sat down and thought things out of, like, where I want to be and, like, what I morally align with and what makes sense for my life. And just a lot of things I don't. I can't be a part of a religion if they don't support certain things. And, like, yeah, things like that. It's just. It's too hard for me. I just don't align with it so well.

[Lauren]

And, I mean, Mormonism has such an intense history with.

[Chandler]

All of that, and.

[Lauren]

I'll just leave it there and so.

[Layla]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah. One thing on the show that I thought was really cool was sharing kind of your journey with your hair. And I thought it was a very touching scene when you talked to Jesse, and the way she handled it was so lovely, where she was like, of course. Like, you need to go to someone who specializes in black hair, and you should absolutely do that. And I just think even having that representation and kind of sharing that that was something you were dealing with was important on the show. I'm curious. I mean, your hair looks amazing today. So where are we kind of at in the.

[Layla]

Yeah, so I see a black hairstylist now in Utah. I've seen her for the past couple months since we filmed season three. I love it. I feel like my hair is, like, thriving right now.

[Chandler]

It looks amazing.

[Layla]

So good. I feel like it's growing back and it's starting to get healthy again. And I. Again, I want to put out there, like, Jessie is not bad at hair. She's absolutely amazing at hair, and she's so talented. I just think for a long time, again, I just wanted to do what felt safe for me, which was straightening my hair and, you know, going to a white hairstylist. And just, again, I just wanted to just fit in, not stand out any more than I already did, and the things that I couldn't control. And now that I finally, like, come to terms with, like, just freaking love yourself and, like, you're beautiful, and, like, your differences give you strength, and you shouldn't have to, like, look at yourself as any less than because you don't look like the people around you. I feel like, if anything, it makes me unique, and that's a great thing. And yeah, I feel like, yeah, my hair is doing great, and I'm glad that, yeah, Jesse handled that.

[Lauren]

Well.

[Layla]

I was nervous at first, obviously, because I just didn't want it to give off the vibe that, like, Jesse wasn't capable.

[Chandler]

Right. Yeah.

[Layla]

Or like, Jesse isn't good at hair because she is. Demi can f right off. Yeah, Jesse is definitely good at hair, but it was just more of just like a. A personal thing for me as well. Just kind of like taking my power back.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I. I just have to say, I think that you have been so vulnerable on the show from season one, from talking about your divorce and just like, you know, the. And upbringing and your parents and I really. And then like, leading up to, like, the reunion where you shared, like, your struggles with men health and everything. I just, I think that you and the other women on this show are so unbelievably vulnerable. Yeah, I. I'm almost at times just like, clutching my heart because I'm just like, you know, I watch some of Michaela scenes and I'm just like, these women are so brave. And anyway, I feel like it's. It's amazing. I just have to, like, compliment you, you guys on it. And also say that I think from that vulnerability has come so much just, like, honesty. Like, even with the hair situation where it's like, I can talk about my entire life and my, you know, like, this. This thing that, like, you know, might be a little bit uncomfortable. We can. We can talk about it all. It doesn't need to be something, you know, that we don't all have to fit in this one perfect box.

[Layla]

No, I. I love it. I think that's why our show has the success that it does is because all of us women are so vulnerable and open and we talk about things that are maybe too taboo to talk about or scary to talk about, but I feel like, like, the reason why we all do is because the amount of dms we get after people being like, thank you so much for sharing this. Like, after the reunion, people being like, what did you do to remove yourself self harm scars? Like, do you have any advice? Like, I'm struggling really, really bad right now. How did you get, like, through your depression, blah, blah, blah. Or now I feel like I'm gonna get messages of girls. Like, for the hair thing, I just feel like you. You do it in hopes that you're gonna help Somebody and I feel like that's. If I can just help one person that's like it's worth it for me.

[Lauren]

Well, I think also even discussing, you know, difficulty with figuring out how to have an orgasm. I mean that is something that is so common. I did not know how to have an orgasm for the longest time. I actually had a book hidden in my bed, high school bedroom called Becoming Orgasmic. Yeah. Really subtle mattress. I tore off the COVID and like this side or whatever, I was trying to figure this shit out.

[Chandler]

Did mom know this about the book?

[Lauren]

I don't think so. It took years but it's so common, I think.

[Layla]

Yeah. And I didn't realize how common it. I remember like in that moment when I shared it, I just thought it was like funny. I was like haha silly. Like I never have. But then I was like getting so many DMs after I talked about it again. Like people being like like I've been married for 10 years, they never have. Like thank you for making me not feel alone.

[Lauren]

Wow, that is crazy. Well I. I also think like when Mormonism toys are really not. They're really taboo. We have actually a funny thing that happened where someone gifted our mom a vibrator when we were like teenagers.

[Layla]

Whatever.

[Lauren]

Our mom acted like it was the trashiest gift and just like, you know, not approving of this. And I think that for a lot of women, you know, where you grew up in a very kind of rigid culture. Yeah, that is something you might need to figure it out. But if you're not willing to use one, you know it's going to actually be bad for sexual health.

[Layla]

Yeah, no, for sure.

[Chandler]

I think as well with like sex toys and everything. It's always like you're getting them at Spencer's Gifts or something. Some crazy ass store in the mall. It's like why do I have to go into this crazy store or this porn store? You know like there's just, just. It's getting better. I think the culture around it has changed and they're better brands. But yeah, it's like definitely is a. It's a whole other world that I think people are afraid of. Especially women who are raised in like.

[Layla]

Are our type of upbringing not supposed to have sex? And then when you are, your purpose of having sex is just to procreate.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Layla]

It's not really to really enjoy. If anything it's for like the man too.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Layla]

I feel like you finally have to like work out of that. Like. No, like it's actually not just for the man to like, get off. And then I just sit there, you know, like I'm supposed to enjoy it as well. And it took a lot of like healing to like get to that point that like I should enjoying this as well or.

[Chandler]

And there's no like talk about. It's actually like, you know, not allowed to have any type of like private sex life just with yourself. That is, you know, not. Not allowed. Anyway, also, I just realized Siri is listening to this whole conversation, so that's awesome.

[Layla]

Anyway, you're gonna get like ads for like toys now. You're gonna be like, great Spencer's.

[Chandler]

Spencer's gifts.

[Lauren]

We only have a few minutes left, so I want to try to get through some listener questions. We got a ton of questions for you. Everyone was so excited you were coming on.

[Layla]

That's so sweet.

[Lauren]

Okay, so someone want just. If you can speak to getting married and having kids at such a young age, I think that's such a unique experience to most people today. If you just have any kind of thoughts on that.

[Layla]

I think the saying like when you know, you know, is I think hold that true. But I also think, like, take time. Like, I think if you're in a place with your partner that like, you can wait a little bit. I would like encourage you to wait and just date a little bit longer. Get to know each other better, maybe move in together. I know that's hard with like the Mormon culture. You're not supposed to do that. But I think truly get to know your partner because I feel like a lot of marriages and divorces could be prevented if you actually know the person that you're, you know, gonna be with. But also I would never say don't, like if, you know, if again, like, if it's right for you, then it's right for you. I also would never say regret my marriage or my kids in any way because if I, again, if I didn't get married, I wouldn't have my second baby and obviously I'd have my first baby because we got pregnant before we were married. But I just, I think take time. You're so young, there's no rush. Like you have the rest of your life to be able to get married and settle down and have kids, enjoy, enjoy life. Because you never know when it's gonna end and for sure don't wanna regret anything.

[Lauren]

You know, I think one thing that's kind of nice though, about having kids early, like, if you do end up having that situation and you are dating, it's almost like you're I, I'm kind of jealous of people who are dating. They're like 45 plus who basically like, you know, having kids is kind of, of, it's kind of off the table. And most of those people are like divorced and have kids.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

I feel like whenever I hear about them dating, it's always like you're, they're dating for fun. You're dating for fun, to enjoy company. And it's not like I'm on this crazy timeline. I need to get married. I need to, you know, I have a, I have a clock ticking. Yeah. And so on some level like with your situation, it's kind of like you get that but super early because it's like you've had kids, you don't have, you know, you don't have that looming thing of like, is this going to happen or not?

[Layla]

Yeah, no, for sure.

[Lauren]

It's like a little bit of a relief compared to a lot of the people trying to, trying to date. Right.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Another question switching gears. Would you accept being on Dancing with the Stars if you were offered it?

[Layla]

Gosh, yeah, totally. I think all of us would. Honestly, I think it's such an awesome opportunity. I'm so dang proud of Jen and Whitney. They're doing amazing and I feel like they're making all of us and mom talk so proud. I would not go on though now seeing how the season has gone for or with another cast member. Like if they were trying to put me with like Miranda or like, like some or Taylor. I just, I, I think I value my friendships too much to like possibly have any contention.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Or like have like cuz naturally you're in a competition. Naturally, like you know, feelings are going to get hurt and you're going to get sad if you get cut before your co star gets cut. Like I, it's completely valid. But I feel like now seeing how it's gone for Jen and Wit in that way, I'm like, have it not gone well? I think naturally just it's hard being like one of your co stars make it further than you. I think Jen obviously, she put a lot into this experience being and you know, her body's exhausted, her mind's exhausted and then she's still like dealing with challenges in her marriage while doing all this. Like I, I can't even imagine how she did it truly.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

She's seriously a rockstar. But I think obviously, yeah, I'd be a little sad if like for sure, I saw my friend was still like making it further than I was of course.

[Lauren]

Yeah. No, that makes total sense.

[Chandler]

I have a question that's a little bit unrelated to the show, but, you know, just kind of a Utah based question. What's, like, a Utah trend that you love and what's one that you're just, like, so ready for it to be done and over with?

[Layla]

I'll always love Swig. I feel like our soda tops, they're. They're just amazing. I feel like they need to stick around for a while.

[Lauren]

Hey.

[Layla]

Trying to think.

[Lauren]

I'm like, there's so much you don't.

[Chandler]

Have Utah curls in currently.

[Layla]

I know. I think, yeah, I'm more into, like, blowouts and stuff like that recently. Yeah, that looks, like, honestly a lot better than, like, the curls. Honestly, I think think too many extensions.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Much hair. Too much.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Because I. I'm a victim of that too. Like, in the past, like, I had my ponytails would be like, this thick, which is like. It's beautiful. It's great. But I feel like sometimes it, like looking back at pictures, it ages me and it makes me look, like, older and, like, drawn down and just, like, heavy almost. So, yeah, I feel like too many extensions. I feel like there can be a.

[Chandler]

Thing you can have, like. Yeah, you can have, like, hair blindness.

[Layla]

Yes, Hair blindness, for sure.

[Lauren]

Okay, someone wants to know any favorite beauty treatments. I mean, you're stunning.

[Layla]

Thank you.

[Lauren]

So do you have any. Any favorite, like, skin treatments, lasers? Anything you can share? Just probably being like, 24 also helps.

[Layla]

I'm like, I. I haven't aged that much yet, but no Botox, though. I love Botox. I mean, you can tell my forehead's not moving right now. So Botox for sure. If you can do that, I think get ahead of the wrinkles before they set in, you know?

[Lauren]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally. Okay. Any other questions?

[Chandler]

Chan, I have one last question. It goes back to the season, but I'm kind of dying to know. Do you think Taylor and Dakota are actually done this time around? Please, God, say yes.

[Layla]

I hope so. I wish I could say yes. I literally. I don't know of those ones. Like, have you seen the videos online that. It's the joking around. Someone made like, a parody video of Taylor, like, on her bout sh. Experience. And he likes, like, fakes that Dakota comes in and he's. She's like, dakota, what are you doing here? You need to stop showing up. And then she's like, meet me in my room.

[Chandler]

Literally texting him. Like, are you. What did. Whatever she texted him.

[Layla]

Those two have the strongest bond to each other ever. But I think Taylor's finally like in an opportunity and like an environment that, like, I truly think if she meets, like a really great guy, I think, I think he might be dead to her. Or wait, he might be dead? Yeah. But I think think they'll always have, like a love for each other. Yeah, they're just so, like, there's a chemical bonded chemistry for sure.

[Lauren]

I gotta say, with the way that the drama was revealed at the end of this season, I thought that he hooked up with Leanne. So I was just like, oh, wow, the show is incredible.

[Layla]

You're like, more seasons. More seasons.

[Chandler]

I really like Leanne.

[Lauren]

I swear, the way they worded it, it was very confusing because they're not saying this person's name and they're obfuscating this person's voice. Voice. So it's supposed to be like a high profile individual that Hulu is, you know, afraid of being litigious or something.

[Layla]

One of her good friends.

[Chandler]

I don't know who it is, but.

[Layla]

They don't find out, right? Do they find out? Okay, yeah, it's one of Leanne's friends, so it's.

[Lauren]

Okay. So it's one of Leanne's, like, friends in her age cohort.

[Layla]

She's older. I've met her a couple times. Like, I've met her at like Taylor's like, baby showers.

[Lauren]

That is kind of crazy.

[Layla]

Like, she's a very active part of, of like Taylor's family.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Chandler]

Like with, I think spends holidays sometimes with them. Yeah.

[Layla]

Like, I've met her myself. I've met her probably like five or six times. Very odd. Very odd. But oh my God, can you imagine? It was Leanne never. Leanne hates Dakota.

[Lauren]

I was like, man, it's like the O.C.

[Layla]

You know, I think Leanne would literally rather die. She hates that man so much. Which rightfully so.

[Lauren]

Gift giving is officially here. And every year I like to start early scrolling the web, but somehow I always end up panic scrolling at mid thinking, do I even know my friends? Like, family is easy. I know what they actually need. But my friends, that can be trickier. I want to get them something that's thoughtful but still fun.

[Chandler]

Okay, so this year I'm calling in backup Macy's free personal stylists. They're basically personal gift whisperers. Total experts at finding the perfect thing for everyone on your list. For your travel obsessed friends, an Estee Lauder skincare set that keeps them glowing through red eyes and jet lips. Flag for your besties who treat takeout Like a food group. A gorgeous ceramic non stick green pan set. And for my trendsetter gals, a cashmere sweater.

[Lauren]

Need it shipped. Macy's personal stylist can do that too. And you get 20 off your first session. Plus Macy's Black Friday sale is happening now with deals on brands like Tarte. I love Tarte. I love their concealer Kiehl's and appliances from Ninja and KitchenAid. I mean Ninja Creamy, a KitchenAid mixer. You guys, this is incredible.

[Chandler]

Book your first session today at Macy's.com or in store and discover gifts you might not have thought of. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Shifting a little money here, a little there and hoping it all works out? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill to too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help you find options within your budget. Try it [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. What book are you putting away? Well, well, well.

[Lauren]

We're back everyone. We just. You know what? We wanted to chat some more on this gorgeous program.

[Chandler]

Yeah, you just casually cast aside a book look like that you brought to our recording. What is this? Are you planning on sharing it?

[Lauren]

It's called Wife, mother spy.

[Chandler]

Ah.

[Lauren]

Have you heard about this?

[Chandler]

Yes. Did you mention this?

[Lauren]

No, I didn't. But anyway, I saw this woman, she got interviewed. I believe it was on some. Wait.

[Chandler]

Yes, I have. I saw. I think I saw like a snippet of her interview. Yeah. Yes.

[Lauren]

And it was pretty interesting. And so I bought the book and I didn't realize that it was on my chair before this recording. So this was not pre planned everyone. But I guess I'm going to flex a little just literary habit called reading. I've actually read zero pages.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

But I do, I do own it and it was in my bag and that's.

[Chandler]

That's half the battle.

[Lauren]

Yeah, exactly.

[Layla]

Wow.

[Chandler]

Carrying it around and. Yeah. In hopes.

[Lauren]

Anyway. Well. Oh, well, it's so great to be gathered here with you. You guys, we just. We wanted to chat some more. We obviously just discussed all things secret lives and Mormon wives with Layla who was so lovely.

[Chandler]

So lovely. All of them are so nice.

[Lauren]

They're all really great. But there's more to get into this week.

[Chandler]

There is.

[Lauren]

So we. We would be remiss, Chandler, if we did not sit down we would be.

[Chandler]

Absolutely remiss if we did not gather over the cauldron of pop culture this week.

[Lauren]

Do you feel like we should discuss the elephant in the room?

[Chandler]

I don't know. What's the elephant in the room? I'm like racking my brain. Am I wearing something weird? Weird?

[Lauren]

No. You, you look beautiful. Like a woman of esteem.

[Chandler]

We are not wearing over on camera. Yeah, yeah. And I actually want to just say I'm not. I know I'm not wearing my wedding ring. Everything's fine. How do you wear your wedding ring every single day without fail?

[Lauren]

I try to wear it whenever we're recording.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Just to, to show men. You know what? I can I just actually say something right now? Men do not come in our dms.

[Lauren]

Why are we getting into this? The fact that we are so unpursued and on no one's interested.

[Chandler]

I think what I, I'm, I think you said I try to wear it when we're recording and I, I guess are you, do you do that because you want to let everyone know that you are married? You are taken. Which led me to then want to comment on the fact that we do not receive a lot of DMS from creepy men.

[Lauren]

You're not in my DMs.

[Chandler]

I mean, are you receiving them?

[Lauren]

Sadly, no. Yeah.

[Chandler]

So I don't know what's going on.

[Lauren]

I guess people just have respect for our, I don't know, our marital bonds.

[Chandler]

I don't necessarily want them, but I'm feeling their absence anyway. I just had to get that out in the open.

[Lauren]

Yeah, well, now you've outed us as being un undesirable. I, no, I, I, I tend to just wear my jewelry when we record. Oh gosh. I'm getting called.

[Chandler]

She's getting a call.

[Lauren]

I'm sure it's a spam. I'm sure it's spam. But now I'm worried about the recording.

[Chandler]

Everything looks, yeah, everything's fine.

[Lauren]

Okay, I'm just going to put this on. Do not disturb.

[Chandler]

Lauren. That could have been a man trying to hit on.

[Lauren]

I mean it could have been, but it wasn't. It was definitely someone saying, you've been pre approved for a sixty thousand dollar loan. Do you get those?

[Chandler]

Congrats. I get mailers. I don't. I thought I signed up for paperless everything, but I'm getting one to two offers from all types of banks all the time.

[Lauren]

I constantly get the call or the voicemail that says we are just a few steps away from closing this application. Anyway, alas, Alas, we're here. We're on camera. You're in New York. Yes. We have taken a step back from the video. Everyone when we're remote. And I feel like there have been some people on YouTube that are saying this is less entertaining without seeing you guys. And someone's like, why don't you do more than the bare minimum?

[Chandler]

Somebody said that.

[Lauren]

And I feel like. Should we kind of explain a little bit bit?

[Chandler]

Please take it away.

[Lauren]

Okay. So basically what happened, everyone is. Chandler and I went on a journey with video where we started with our computers. Kind of like, you know, it took a long time to actually get us to commit to being on camera.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren]

And we started with our MacBook with our MacBook cameras. And those are pretty fuzzy. Yeah. And they look pretty low res now.

[Chandler]

Great. Now looking back at those videos, they.

[Lauren]

Were so fuzzy and they just look terrible.

[Chandler]

Look terrible.

[Lauren]

So, long story short, we got our big camera set up finally.

[Chandler]

We're talking dslr. We are.

[Lauren]

Try not to be too impressed. And we just got into a situation where whenever we would set up to record, we would basically have to like, set up a set where we'd have to set up lights, our camera and our. The microphone. It just was a lot more. It was a lot more challenging to begin with or the recording, because not only are you getting ready, but then you were also like setting up all this tech.

[Chandler]

Well, I just have to say too, it kind of resembled those, those sets you would see when Covid hit and like newscasters were in their homes where it was like big lights, they're at their kitchen counter. Yeah, it just.

[Layla]

It.

[Chandler]

Yeah. It wasn't ever. It's not like you and I had stationary places ready to go.

[Lauren]

Correct.

[Chandler]

Because you don't have a studio in Puerto Rico and I don't have one in my apartment in New York.

[Lauren]

Correct. And yeah, it just made recording feel like the energy was just not as good. Like we would be. We would start recording and like, it was just. Sometimes it was hard. It was hard to see each other because of the ways that everything was set up.

[Chandler]

I like to have my laptop closer to me. I prefer a tighter angle. You prefer a further away angle.

[Lauren]

I do.

[Chandler]

And so like, there was just a literal, you know, eye contact problem where we couldn't really read each other's facial expressions, which led to, like, energy issues.

[Lauren]

That actually had nothing to do with it because the camera, the, the laptop wasn't taking the, the video. It was just because of the, like, I just had such a Funky setup in our old apartment in Puerto Rico. This is all like minutiae no one cares about. But it just. We couldn't even see each other while we were recording.

[Chandler]

Yeah, we can see each other very well.

[Lauren]

And frequently. Frequently there would be. And I think this was the biggest issue. There would be delays. So basically, because we were having to, like, because we were recording with video, the WI fi sometimes would not be as strong or for whatever reason, there'd be maybe a three second delay in the conversation. So Chandler's responses would lag. And then we couldn't get into a flow.

[Chandler]

Frequently flow state was not happening.

[Lauren]

It was so hard to achieve. I think if we had home studios that were hardwired in and always set up, we could much more easily make always on video a reality. Yeah. But anyway, we just kind of got to a breaking point and there was actually an episode where we did. Did where we took it down because it was so stiff because of just all these video issues we were encountering that I just was like, this is not. It's not representative of our talent.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Who we are as pop apologize.

[Chandler]

And I think it was always really tricky for us because we'd be like, why is this so hard? There were, you know, there were plenty of weeks where I feel like the topics were good, that we had things to say, but we just could not get in that flow.

[Lauren]

Like, it didn't feel fun when we were doing it, and it feels so fun when we're in person, and it feels so fun when we're audio only because we just feel like we're free and we're just, like, gabbing and really, like, we're just on the phone.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Which is really, like the original intention of the podcast.

[Lauren]

Yeah, exactly. That's how it all started. It's how it all began. And so I think we just said, okay, it actually makes zero difference to the show and, like, our revenue if we are on camera or not at this juncture. So let's be half on camera when, you know, we're in person and then otherwise audio only.

[Chandler]

And I think we instantly could tell a difference in the content.

[Lauren]

Oh, it. It got immediately. It was like, oh, we're back.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

So that is kind of where we're at everyone and I think where we're staying. Yeah. For the time being, we definitely have people in our ear being like, you need to get back to the video. Yeah. But I think the primary, like, what's most important is it being, I think, fun and enjoyable. Like an enjoyable lesson.

[Chandler]

We're a podcast first. We're not necessarily a live video show.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

First. And so we're just gonna try to stay true to that as. As best as we can.

[Lauren]

It's true. And also, there's so many successful shows, like crazy successful shows that are not. That do not release full videos.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren]

And I think when I realized that as well, I was like, maybe this isn't as necessary as I thought. Right, right. Anyway, that. That's it, everyone.

[Chandler]

So that's the journey we've been on.

[Lauren]

Exactly. Let's move on. Some recent pop culture happenings must be discussed. BravoCon concluded.

[Chandler]

Yes. Can I just say, this is the very first year where I have thought to myself, why aren't I there? I need to be there.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I had fomo. I had full blown FOMO for this Bravo Con. I don't know why, like, this year in particular hit me, but I. I'm going next year.

[Lauren]

There's two things that. That's great that you say that, because I was gonna say there's two things that we would do if we had on some level, a better work ethic. And one is touring. And second is going to Bravo Con.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I think let's start small. Let's go to Bravo Con.

[Lauren]

Let's go to BravoCon next year. I think we would like to do some sort of mini tour at some point. Yeah. But no, I am dying to go. A few interesting announcements. One, Vicki Gumbelson, the OG of the OC is back. She was offered an orange.

[Chandler]

Presented with an orange by Andy Cohen. Thank God. Because that show was slipped flipping.

[Lauren]

Oh, and I'm so ready. I think it's just been so long since we have known what's going on at Coto Insurance.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

What's happening with Brianna? I. I used to see Brianna at the Mission Viejo Nordstrom. I would say once every four months. Okay. And I was starstruck every time. It was so fun. And I'm just ready for the Gumbels and family to be back on my screens.

[Chandler]

I think she has an ability to give us a one liner, to give us a yelling scene like nobody else.

[Lauren]

Agreed. And really, honestly, it was a grave injustice that she was ever cast out of the cast. Yeah.

[Chandler]

Agreed. Or that she's had seasons where she's just a friend.

[Lauren]

I mean, to be debased and to be humiliated.

[Chandler]

I mean, you say this all the time, but we live in a fallen world.

[Lauren]

We do. And I think that is such a. That is example number one.

[Chandler]

I think too. You know, I wonder what's going on at Bravo hq? If they are looking for. At Orange county, they're looking at some of these shows, these legacy, you know, franchises, and they are like, what are we going to do? You know, we've been in a state of. Of existential. What is Housewives? What. What is. What are these shows about? What is the drama even about for the last few years here? And I think they are still bumbling around.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Well, I feel like OC especially has really been in a crisis.

[Chandler]

This is a crisis.

[Lauren]

Absolutely. Leap. And I would love Bethany Frankel to get on the case because I'm going to say they have some serious LVP's and not Lisa Vanderpumps, but least valuable players on that.

[Chandler]

Losers. Yeah, it's true.

[Lauren]

I mean, Gina.

[Chandler]

Why does everyone hate Gina? I've always enjoyed Gina. It's.

[Lauren]

Gina would be wonderful to have at a baby shower. I don't need to see her on.

[Chandler]

See, I. You know what I think? I think Tamra is like. Like is really a very toxic part of that show. And Tamara, honestly has so committed to stirring the pot and to being a terrible person.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

That I think it. It just makes the show not enjoyable at all because Tamara is like the least believable person at all on that cast because she's willing to throw away any friendship, say anything, go below the belt. I. I actually think Tamara is someone who should. Should go.

[Lauren]

Should. Should get.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah. You know what? If a cabin and big bear can't heal you, nothing can.

[Chandler]

Nothing can. Okay. The strong arms of Eddie can't heal you.

[Lauren]

No. Oh, my gosh. The ripped arms of Eddie Judge also, I will say Emily could hit the chopping block, in my opinion. Lovely woman.

[Chandler]

I think, Shane, I've always had it. Like, I've always enjoyed Emily and Gina. I.

[Lauren]

Are they riveting television?

[Chandler]

No.

[Lauren]

And I saw someone say this. I said, what are iconic moments from Emily and Gina? Did you see that? Real. You guys like that? Real. Case closed.

[Chandler]

No, I didn't get to hear that. Real. But thinking about that, I think they're just. I don't dislike them. Like, I don't. I don't care about Katie.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I liked Katie first.

[Chandler]

More than. More than Emily or Gina. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Because she was just like fresh blood, I think, and just an. I don't know.

[Chandler]

That's a long liner that she's given us.

[Lauren]

That's. There's been zero. Yeah. Zero iconic moments.

[Chandler]

Did you hear? Speaking of Gina, if I may, when Heather said she's like one of the Only people on the cast. Who owns her home? I mean, a serious dig. A serious dig. I kind of live for that.

[Lauren]

Well, and it brings us to Shannon, because apparently Shannon is majorly on the chopping block.

[Chandler]

Really?

[Lauren]

You haven't heard this? Yeah, Shannon is majorly on the chopping block because they feel like there's, you know, there's not much storyline happening with her. And it's. I. I kind of hate to say it too, but it just. The Shannon Beador stick feels a little tired.

[Chandler]

I know, I know. I mean, I'm not even watching it, but I know it's tired.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I think it might be time for Shannon to explore what else is out there.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Which scares me for her.

[Chandler]

I know.

[Lauren]

She's in a very different financial position than when she entered the show.

[Chandler]

Isn't her dad loaded, though? Like, that's a good question. I thought. I thought she just had, like, family money. Money.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Are. Are jeans coffers full?

[Chandler]

I think they are. I think they absolutely are. I think that there are plenty more, you know, Javiers reservations in her future.

[Lauren]

Okay. The next franchise I would love to discuss with you is Real Housewives Rhode Island.

[Chandler]

Real Housewives of Rhode Island.

[Lauren]

We got the trailer. I feel two emotions.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

One, excited for a new franchise. But two, I was not in love with the trailer.

[Chandler]

I had to watch it twice because I zoned out the first time.

[Lauren]

That's not a good sign.

[Chandler]

Not a good sign, baby.

[Lauren]

It just felt a little bit like just very tired housewives tropes. Yeah.

[Chandler]

And I think I was struggling to find, like, what's the secret sauce about Rhode Island?

[Lauren]

What?

[Chandler]

What? They just kind of felt like New York or New Jersey women and.

[Lauren]

Okay, I wasn't gonna say it, but I'm glad you did.

[Chandler]

It just.

[Lauren]

I was kind of expecting for Rhode island, like, for me, Rhode island.

[Chandler]

You're gonna offend somebody. I can feel it. I can feel it.

[Lauren]

Rhode island to me, gives scholarly. It gives Founding father.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

It just gives. It just gives. Very regal. And these do not seem like royal women.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I don't know. I actually have never been to. Well, no, I've driven through. That's New Hampshire. Excuse me. Okay. I've never been to Rhode Island. I can't speak to, you know, how regal it's supposed to be, but I did not look at this trailer and think, oh, yeah, those are Rhode island women. Like, I don't know what that would look like.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

So. And I think the fact that. That there's, like, a bachelor alum on there who's not really from there. Just like, is this kind of a hodgepodge cast?

[Lauren]

Right. No. And that's kind of what it had the feeling of, but we'll see. I will reserve judgment because there's nothing better than a fresh franchise that's excellent. And we never. You never know.

[Chandler]

We absolutely never know. And I think I'd rather watch a new episode of a new franchise versus a tired episode of O.C.

[Lauren]

Yeah. No, absolutely. Okay. Another show that's coming back.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Flipping out.

[Chandler]

Yes. I heard that Jeff Lewis is coming back to Bravo. Are you dying?

[Lauren]

I'm dying. I love flipping out. I feel like I have such an allegiance to Heather McDonald, so I feel bad that I'm excited about this, because I really should want Jeff Lewis to fail. You should feel really guilty, and I do. I want him to fail on tv. I want him to. I want him. I want Heather McDonald to win in all things. Yeah. But I am happy Flaviano is coming back, because I do, like, like that show.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Which is just something I wrestle with.

[Chandler]

I've never watched it.

[Lauren]

It's the best show on Bravo.

[Chandler]

I know. I think I need to watch it. I think I'm gonna make Ben watch it with me, because Ben is kind of into reality TV a little bit more these days.

[Lauren]

Flipping out is the best show on Bravo. Kagan loves it. Really? We. We watched all 11 seasons together.

[Chandler]

There's 11 seasons.

[Lauren]

11 seasons. We watched all 11 seasons together when we, like, were first dating, and it's incredible. It's the best show on Bravo.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Yeah. We've been watching Seeking Sister, Wise Wives.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. Trash, trash, trash.

[Chandler]

I mean, there's a couple of families that we skip through, but there's a couple ones that we. We definitely like to check in on. But yeah. Okay. Definitely want to maybe start flipping out. Incredible. Also, another big piece of news. We have not watched the episode, obviously, because it's not out yet, but apparently this episode of this week's episode of Salt Lake is one of Andy's alt. It's in his top 10 now.

[Lauren]

Yeah. We're recording this Tuesday afternoon, everyone. So. So you might have seen it when you listen to this. We will be recapping this seminal episode that Andy is thinks is, like, top, top, top y. We will be chatting about it on the premium as well.

[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

Okay. In other news, Wendy Williams apparently does not have dementia.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

And she has been under. Under a conservatorship. Okay. She has not. She's basically been in a prison, locked.

[Chandler]

Up for all intents and purposes. Yeah.

[Lauren]

And so you sent me this story and I was doing a lot of research and I read some stuff on Reddit and people were like, she spent 200k on Uber Eats. This something banks do when. Yeah, when they see, like, crazy financial activity, they sometimes will flag it to wonder, you know, wondering if. If someone is not necessarily mentally well. And anyway, I also was seeing someone saying that there's something called show timing when you have dementia, which is a lot of times dementia patients can actually do well in front of doctors, like when they're being given tests because no one wants to lose their freedom.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And so even though it might, like, take all their energy for the entire day, they can perform cognitively much better than they would in normal circumstances. So I kind of was on the. The side of this where I was like, well, we will see. Like, this could be another Britney situation where we're all like, free Britney. But then you kind of are like, should she be free?

[Chandler]

That's where you're landing. That's where you landed.

[Lauren]

I mean, that's where I've landed with Brittany for sure.

[Chandler]

I don't think that. Yeah.

[Lauren]

And so anyway. But you uncovered something in your research as a scholar that is a very, I think, an incredible piece of evidence for Wendy's. For her mental state.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, I heard TMZ talking about it, and Harvey says, I have talked to Wendy for hours and hours and hours over the last year, and she is fine.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And I also believe that there are people in her life who are taking advantage of her. You know, I think that I haven't watched the documentary, but I've read a little bit about it, and I think they all come across as pretty suspicious.

[Lauren]

Well, the other. The other thing is, it is. I feel like I understand how cognitively demanding doing a podcast is. You have to be pretty on it. Right? Like, you have to be able to recall information, think on your feet. Like, the second any of us, our mental acuity starts slipping.

[Chandler]

It's done.

[Lauren]

The show's over.

[Chandler]

It's over.

[Lauren]

So the fact that Wendy Williams was doing two shows a day, and then overnight, she's just has dementia, that math did not math for me.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I. I do think she has other health conditions. Like, I think she has graves disease and other things.

[Lauren]

She has. She was. She was definitely suffering from alcoholism.

[Chandler]

Yes. Yeah. And I think there were. There were health reasons why her show ended, but I don't know that it's dementia. And I think to have a neurologist come out and say, you do not have dementia, I think is a pretty big bombshell. I don't think that she just paid off some person to say that. I think the really scary thing is that this does not mean that she will necessarily get out of this immediately. This does not clear her of this battle.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, are you sure that the judge won't just get this test result and.

[Chandler]

No, I think it's like. And they were talking about this on the podcast with tmz. I think it's like, it would kind of admit that they were wrong and that it's not. Would not be a good look. This is not just, like, the smoking gun.

[Lauren]

Interesting. So how does she get free?

[Chandler]

I don't know. This is. I mean, this is why we're at the free Britney, like, situation, where it was. I think it takes a really, really long time to overturn something like this.

[Lauren]

I just think whenever you find out that someone is locked in. Locked up, and they're saying that, you know, especially someone with a lot of wealth, and they're saying that they're under a conservative conservatorship, someone else has control of their finances, in control of their person. I think that no matter what, you're in a terrible situation.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Because that person either truly has dementia or they're being jailed against their will.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

It's a tragic situation, no matter what.

[Chandler]

Absolutely. I mean, also, the lawyers that are trying to keep her in. In prison. She's paying for them trying to keep her, you know, in. In this facility. They are. It's coming out of her pocket.

[Lauren]

That's what's so crazy. Not only are you in prison and likely imprisoned by people you know and used to love and who are very close to you, but also you're paying for. To be in prison. Yes. You're paying your. Your captors.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I think. I think it's like 20 grand a month or something is her as the facility. Anyway, just. It's a really sad situation. And I. I really believe Harvey from TMZ when he said, you know, I've spoken to her for hours and hours over the last of years. Couple year. She's fine. I don't think you could fake that. Exactly.

[Lauren]

You cannot hide dementia if you're talking for hours and hours.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

Let's move on, though.

[Chandler]

Lauren. There's a woman who has been a part of the pop apologist journey. It's not our mother, but it's another seminal figure, would we say seminal?

[Lauren]

Who are you talking about?

[Chandler]

Tina Brown.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. Tina Brown figures so prominently in pop apologist history. I'm grateful you're bringing her up because was. She just was on the Daily.

[Chandler]

Yeah, well, she. There's a series called the Interview, and she was featured.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

And. But it is by the New York Times. Yeah, I just want to make that clear distinction because the Daily is different from the Interview.

[Lauren]

Well, it was on that podcast feed.

[Chandler]

So, yeah, it's part of the New York Times podcast Umbrella.

[Lauren]

Anyway, great.

[Chandler]

Tina Brown was featured on here, and they get into just kind of a smattering of topics. Some of them are a little too political. We're not going to go there there. But she does talk about Epstein. She does talk about Megan and Harry. And if everyone will remember, we actually did a chapter by chapter reading of the palace papers for her book.

[Lauren]

I mean, we're going to talk about work ethic, I guess a lot today, but, you know, we. We covered that entire book up until the last chapter.

[Chandler]

Why do we not do the last chapter?

[Lauren]

We just never finished.

[Chandler]

We should do it. We should absolutely do it. Anyway, I want to play a couple of the moments from her interview, because I found them to be very juicy.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

So the first moment I'm gonna play is from when she was working at the Daily Beast when she was reporting on Jeffrey Epstein years and years ago. Okay. Years and years ago, Epstein, as I.

[Unknown]

Write, you know, came in to the offices of the Daily Beast and tried to Stop me running it. I never know to this day how he got past security, but. Cause nobody said, jeffrey Epstein's coming up. But I got back from the art department, where I was working, and there he was sitting there with his very cold, dead eyes. And I said, what are you doing in here? I mean, I said, how do you. And he says. He just looked at me and said, just stop. Just stop. And it was a very chilling encounter. I said, you know, Jeffrey, if you have something to say, you know, say it to our lawyers. You know, we escorted him out. He didn't follow up. Why didn't he follow up? Well, he decided, I think, that. That instead he would go on a kind of blitz about his philanthropy, which he did. I mean, from that day, he was sort of constantly sending out releases about all this philanthropy he was doing. And I think he thought he'd sort of got away with it.

[Chandler]

I just found the story to be very chilling. You know, the word she uses, the idea that he came up to her office and just looked at her and said, just stop. Just stop.

[Lauren]

No, he's a scary person.

[Chandler]

He's a scary person. And I just think that Tina Brown is really brave. And, and, yeah, I, I, I. She also gets into the fact that, like, after, you know, he was convicted, he also hosted a dinner. And her publicist called her and said, you want to go to this dinner? You know, Jeffrey. It's Jeffrey Epstein is hosting it. And, you know, a lot of people are going to be there. Prince Andrew, Woody Allen.

[Lauren]

And she's Charlie Rose.

[Chandler]

Charlie Rose. She says she actually don't know who Charlie Rose is. Who's Charlie?

[Lauren]

Charlie Rose.

[Chandler]

Who's Charlie Rose?

[Lauren]

He has. Okay, he hosts that interview show, and it's just like, him in a dark room. Room, and he has, like, that voice like Charlie Rose.

[Chandler]

And he is not helping at all whatsoever.

[Lauren]

And he's just interviewed. Like, it's just him with a black background.

[Chandler]

A creepy guy.

[Lauren]

Well, yeah, so there were. Were, like, sex scandals that came out really soon.

[Chandler]

I, I didn't know what that. I didn't know that.

[Lauren]

Charlie Roses. Wow, that's so interesting.

[Chandler]

Anyway, so her. Her publicist is like, do you want to go to this party? You know, Jeffrey's hosting at his house? You know, Woody Allen's gonna be there. Charlie Rose, Prince Andrew. And she says that she, her colleague who was there sitting across her remembers her saying, what is this? The, The Predator's Ball?

[Lauren]

Yeah, she was not having it. I mean, she is just such a badass. And she's been Right in the center of all this drama, which is so crazy because I guess drama, but also crimes, all this trafficking. She's been like, right amongst all of these ne' er do wells. Yeah. At the highest level.

[Chandler]

I. I think I also just. Just didn't realize that she was also kind of a. A witness of things more than just the Royal family. I have. My only experience with her was through, like the palace papers and through her, like, her commentary on the Royal family.

[Lauren]

But really she's a side gig for her.

[Chandler]

It's a side gig. And anyway, everyone definitely listened to the interview.

[Lauren]

Well, another crazy part about the interview is she talks about how Ghislaine or Glenn.

[Chandler]

Ghislaine.

[Lauren]

No, it's not Ghislaine who we keep.

[Chandler]

Getting in trouble for, but somebody said it's Ghislaine. Somebody literally left us a comment.

[Lauren]

It might be Guy Lynn, but it's not Ghislaine, I promise you that. But anyway, she was saying that Ghis was basically part and parcel with Jeffrey Epstein in the crimes and she was just as evil as Jeffrey Epstein.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I think she quotes Virginia Guffrey and she says that they were two halves of the same evil.

[Lauren]

Yeah, exactly. And she also says that she thinks that she was like, in love with Epstein and that that also played a factor into it. So I think there could have been a world where she was participating in a lot of this because she was just so enamored with Jeffrey Epstein, so in love with him, and basically wanted to make him happy.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And like, take part in the things he found pleasure in.

[Chandler]

You and I have both not read Nobody's Girl. Is that what it's called?

[Lauren]

I have it, but I've not read it.

[Chandler]

Yeah, it's called Nobody's Girl. Right. But Tina mentions that Virginia talks about in the book that, you know, she would play a part in threesomes and in the predatory behavior. Not just procuring the women, not just sort of like, you know, arranging things. She would actually be a participant, which I wonder.

[Lauren]

My question is, did she participate ever without him there? Like, was this something actually she wanted to do? Like, it's so hard for me to fathom a woman being into this that, like, part of me wonders, was it always because she wanted to make him happy and wanted to. Whatever. Anyway, I. I don't know. It is very suspicious that Virginia Guthrie, her book comes out and just like Jeffrey Epstein, you know, like, let's think about this. Her book comes out and there already there are waves. Prince Andrew is now Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. He is, like, stripped of all his titles. He has to move out of his house. Like the waves are being made amongst powerful circles. Yeah. I do wonder if the powers that be decided she is too messy. Like she is. She's too much of a liability.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, I guess, like, the book is already out. I know, you know, the details are already out there, but it's just weird.

[Lauren]

That she would do that right after publishing it.

[Chandler]

All of the circumstances in this are super weird. Yeah, all. All of the. Yeah, all the things. Nothing really adds up. So getting into printing Andrew, she says, you know, that the Queen basically should have done a lot more and that the Queen really protected him and enabled Prince Andrew.

[Lauren]

It's not a good look for Queen Elizabeth. The fact that, you know, these accusations, they were very much alive and well when she was alive and well.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And it's interesting because I think a lot of people in the uk, a lot of people in England, like the Queen, kind of do no wrong.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Well, that's what she says is in the interview as she talks about how, like, you really. You're not supposed to criticize the Queen.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

But she did protect Andrew, and they kind of. They validate our theory, which I think is a theory a lot of people have. This is not a crazy, unique idea that they really have to keep Andrew, you know, kind of fed and happy. Otherwise, he is a major liability. They can't just have him out on the streets.

[Chandler]

And I guess also Fergie is a big liability.

[Lauren]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chandler]

Just lots and lots of nuggets in this interview.

[Lauren]

A liability because they know too much. And so that's the question. It's like, what do they know that's so bad?

[Chandler]

But don't you think it's like, it doesn't matter how big or how small the things they know. People just would want the insider information.

[Lauren]

Want the information. But if.

[Chandler]

If people want to know the time where the Queen was rude to a butler or something.

[Lauren]

Yeah. But that's all just such a nothing Burgers. I feel like if we remember what Harry said, he said he had enough for a whole other book. Okay.

[Chandler]

About that. Wow.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I just think that there's a lot we don't know about the Royal Family. And I think that we would all be a little bit naive to believe that, you know, Charles is really just into gardening and designing cities in his spare time. I'm just gonna leave it there. Yeah.

[Chandler]

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure the gate.

[Lauren]

That's not what I'm trying to get right.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

But I just, I don't know, I just, I, I think this family, if you look at the history, it's not good.

[Chandler]

And I'll just go out on a limb here and say I think a lot of super powerful, super rich people are up to no good. That's a hill I'll die on.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Okay, everyone. Well, we have been instructed from the other powers at be that we need to keep our goodbyes brief so we have better completion rates on the podcast. So love you. Bye.

[Chandler]

Bye. Is this thing on? I'm Kaitlyn Bristow, host of off the vine podcast where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes with my friends and celebs, guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness. Na na na na na na na.

[Layla]

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[Chandler]

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[Layla]

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[Chandler]

Heidi d', Amelio, Big brother's Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're going to get through it. What I do and so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable. Because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow rate and review off the vine podcast Wherever you listen to your podcasts. This November, action is free on Pluto tv.

[Layla]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Lauren]

Gift giving is officially here. And every year I like to start early scrolling the way web. But somehow I always end up panic scrolling at midnight thinking do I even know my friends? Like family is easy. I know what they actually need. But my friends, that can be trickier. I want to get them something that's thoughtful but still fun.

[Chandler]

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[Chandler]

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