306: Why No One Needs a $200K Facelift...or an Expensive Skin Care Routine ft. MRS DERM

Summary

Pop Apologists, Episode 306: Why No One Needs a $200K Facelift... or an Expensive Skin Care Routine ft. MRS DERM

Date: November 26, 2025
Hosts: Lauren (Pop Apologists, PodcastOne)
Guest: Melissa Coleman (@mrs.derm), skincare and dermatology advocate

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Episode Overview

This episode cuts through the noise of the beauty industry, as Lauren is joined by Melissa Coleman—known as “Mrs. Derm” on Instagram—to break down the real essentials of skincare. Together, they challenge the myth that expensive routines, endless products, monthly facials, or even astronomical cosmetic surgeries are necessary to maintain great skin. Drawing on Melissa’s own experience as both a skincare influencer and the spouse of a dermatologist, the episode emphasizes science-backed, affordable, and minimalist routines. The conversation also takes on the culture of beauty marketing, predatory sales tactics in dermatology offices, and surging surgery costs that intimidate most people. The message: results come from simplicity, honesty, and realistic expectations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Overwhelm and Marketing of Skincare

• Skincare confusion: Lauren shares her struggles with the overwhelming flood of products and marketing gimmicks in skincare, leading to analysis paralysis and avoidance (02:00–03:40).
  • “I was able to ride on the fumes of youth for quite a while. And then the car... just skidded to a halt.” —Lauren [02:29]
• Melissa’s philosophy: Melissa is direct—most products are unnecessary, and much of beauty marketing is predatory (03:38–04:32).
  • “I can do it without an eye cream, I can do it without a toner, and I can just use the same five or six products every day for years.” —Melissa [04:04]
• Facials and treatments: The two debunk the necessity of monthly facials and elaborate “miracle” treatments.
  • “One of my favorite things that you say is completely useless are facials.” —Lauren [05:24]
  • “The amount of rashes I treat from women who have had facials... it's just this, like, soup recipe for your face. And then they wake up... and they have a rash.” —Melissa [05:53]

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2. The “Skinfluencer” Origin Story & Honest Dermatology

• How Mrs. Derm started: Melissa started her Instagram to answer questions from her dermatologist husband Patrick’s patients who recognized her in clinic and wanted advice—but couldn’t get candid info anywhere else (06:31–08:49).
• Her husband's approach: Patrick, the dermatologist, sells only two products: Retin-A and sunscreen. No up-charges, no extraneous creams (08:56–09:54).
  • “He’s always come from this school of thought that all that is garbage, really... what you actually need is Retin-A.” —Melissa [08:56]

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3. Simple, Science-Backed Daily Routines

The ultimate minimalist approach:

• AM Routine:
  • Vitamin C serum (if tolerated): “Should be the first thing you wake up in the morning. Vitamin C on your face, neck, chest.” —Melissa [16:10]
  • Moisturizer (only if needed): “People over moisturize their skin—and it causes a lot of... perioral dermatitis.” —Melissa [18:35]
  • Sunscreen (essential): “If I could pick one product at 10 years old—it would be sunscreen.” —Melissa [25:31]
    • Note: For most, cleansing in the morning is unnecessary. “I don’t [wash my face in the morning].” —Melissa [17:52]
• PM Routine:
  • Cleanser: Wash off makeup, sunscreen, pollution.
  • Retin-A/tretinoin (essential): “Absolutely, without question, Retin-A.” —Melissa [26:00]
  • Optional: Prescription creams for acne, melasma, or rosacea as needed.
  • Minimal moisturizer, only if skin is dry.

What’s NOT needed:

• Toners, eye creams, “miracle” serums, frequent switching of products.
  • “Let’s stop playing polypharmacy on our face.” —Melissa [10:25]

Estimated cost of this routine is comparatively low, unlike “medical-grade” routines that cost hundreds per month.

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4. The Truth about Expensive Treatments and “Medical Grade” Products

• Extreme examples: Melissa tells of a woman spending $700/month on 20+ products pushed by her derm, instead of simply addressing the underlying problem—a facelift.
  • “She had a $700 a month skincare habit. And she said, ‘I can’t take my annual vacations...’ And I was so mad at the derm.” —Melissa [13:19–13:36]
• Debunking “medical grade” marketing: Expensive routines often contain nothing more effective than a few evidence-backed ingredients.

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5. Sunscreen: Why EU/Non-US Sunscreens Matter

• US sunscreens lag behind: The US has not approved new sunscreen filters in decades, so American sunscreens protect well against burns (UVB), but poorly against aging (UVA). European (EU) and Australian options provide far better broad-spectrum protection (58:31–60:17).
• Key recommendation: Look for La Roche-Posay "UVMUNE 400" (contains Mexoryl 400) for real UVA protection if you can source it.
  • “There is no American version of UVMune 400... because the 400 stands for Mexoryl 400, which is not approved here.” —Melissa [66:05]
• Where to buy: Some US specialty pharmacies stock it, or order from EU/Asia online retailers (beware tariffs and counterfeits).

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6. The Science on Retin-A: When, How, & Why to Use

• Retin-A delivers visible results over time (several months to a year), but only with consistent, daily use.
  • “If you do Retin-A every other day... the results you get in a year will take her four years.” —Melissa [36:01]
• Beginning Retin-A:
  • Start with a tiny, pea-sized amount and avoid overuse to reduce irritation.
  • Some peeling and irritation is expected and needed for results. “You have to irritate your skin; it has to heal from something... it is a controlled damage.” —Melissa [40:57, 41:19]
• Mythbusting: Retin-A does not “thin the skin”—it’s proven to build collagen with long-term, consistent use (34:19–35:17).

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7. Melasma and Pigment: Real Strategies, Real Timeframes

• Melasma can be persistent: Requires consistent sunscreen and prescription actives.
• Melissa’s journey: After worsening pigment from topical estrogen, she switched to an arbutase-based compound (her “Coleman Compound”), seeing improvements in ~2 weeks (43:09–55:25).
  • “I started to see a real difference after two weeks.” —Melissa [55:10]
• Fair skin vs. olive/darker skin: Fair skin shows early aging, but is easier to treat; darker skin resists aging longer, but is harder to fix once damaged (53:33–54:05).

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8. Treatments & Devices: What Works, What’s Hype

• Lasers & Peels:
  • Use is highly individualized by skin tone and targeted problem (pigment, redness, texture).
  • CO2 laser and TCA peels, applied judiciously by a dermatologist, offer most improvement (70:07–74:08).
  • Monthly medium-depth peels can be more effective and affordable than repeated “maintenance” lasers.
  • “If it worked, why didn’t it work?” —Dr. Patrick, via Melissa [70:59]
• Caution: Only see qualified dermatologists or plastic surgeons for peels and laser—esthetician- or med spa-administered treatments carry serious risk (81:04–82:14).
• At-home devices (microcurrent, LED masks):
  • “No, they’re all [useless]. They don’t do anything.” —Melissa [90:24]
  • If they worked, clinics would offer more powerful versions; improvement is usually from improved general routines and placebo.
  • “If it worked... where’s the one at your derm’s office?” —Melissa [92:19]
  • LED masks, exosomes, stem cells, and similar fads lack scientific evidence and aren’t legal/effective in the US (93:41–104:25).

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9. Cosmetic Surgery: The $200K Facelift Myth and Smart Sourcing

• Facelifts do not need to cost $200K:
  • The same “deep plane” facelift, neck lift, brow lift, and blepharoplasty that cost $150–315K in LA/NYC often run $22–30K in markets with lower overhead (New Orleans, Dallas, etc.).
  • “He lives in New Orleans, it happens to be… he owns the building… the overhead is a lot lower.” —Melissa [109:31–109:56]
  • Location, not skill, sets price. All reputable US plastic surgeons meet rigorous standards, regardless of city or celebrity clientele.
• How to choose a surgeon:
  • Get referrals from your dermatologist—they know the best local surgeons (117:59–119:12).
  • The best surgeons tell you NO if you’re not a candidate. “The best thing you can be told is NO. The surgeon that tells you no is your surgeon.” —Melissa [121:15–123:34]
  • Always get multiple consults to avoid “mercenary” up-selling or unnecessary procedures.
  • No surgery or device will make you look 25 again.
• Celebrity facelifts/Instagram deception: Extreme before/afters are cherry-picked and filtered. “She looks great. But you go get the $250,000 facelift and you pay her doctor and you don’t look like that. Because she’s not.” —Melissa [131:39]

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10. Real Talk on Beauty Standards, Social Media, and Culture

• Dangers of comparison: Social media encourages “face filter” psychosis and endless chasing of unattainable perfection (129:25–132:30).
• Compassion: The cruelty, commentary, and toxic expectations online (especially toward female celebrities) are both harmful and misleading.
  • “What happened to supporting women's journeys and choices?” —Melissa [134:23]
  • “I just block you... I'm good on your toxic inner monologue.” —Lauren [139:38–140:11]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On product overload:
  “If the money women spend on useless skincare products could just be put in a savings account and accrue interest, we could resolve so many financial issues.” —Lauren [11:00]
• On facials:
  “It’s like a cardiologist that encourages people to smoke. It’s good for business.” —Melissa (on her husband’s view of facials) [06:24]
• On sunscreen:
  “US sunscreens will protect you from getting sunburned... but they don’t do much to protect against aging.” —Melissa [60:37]
• On retin-A:
  “If I could pick one product at [age] 10, it would be sunscreen... at 46, it’s absolutely, without question, retin-A.” —Melissa [25:31–26:00]
• On skincare ‘progress’:
  “Let’s stop playing polypharmacy on our face.” —Melissa [10:25]
• On devices:
  “Where is the derm version [of LED masks]? They don’t exist.” —Melissa [92:19]
• On surgery prices:
  “Location, not skill, sets price. All reputable US plastic surgeons meet rigorous standards, regardless of city or celebrity clientele.” —Melissa [109:31–109:56, paraphrased]
• On social media delusion:
  “People filter [photos] and that’s how they identify now—they only recognize themselves as that image and they want that image to become reality. And you actually can’t— you can’t do it.” —Melissa [130:39–130:50]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Skincare confusion and marketing culture: 02:00–05:24
• Origin of “Mrs. Derm” and honest dermatology: 06:31–08:49
• Core daily routine breakdown: 16:04–25:31
• The truth about facials and expensive routines: 13:19–14:16
• Science of sunscreen and why EU formulas matter: 58:31–66:34
• Retin-A science, usage, and consistency: 31:36–37:34
• Melasma and hyperpigmentation strategies: 43:09–55:25
• Lasers, peels, and real intervention: 67:43–78:13
• At-home devices and why they (don’t) work: 90:24–98:45
• Cosmetic surgery costs/myths and how to choose a surgeon: 106:11–119:01
• Celebrity facelifts and public deception: 131:02–132:22
• Toxic culture and supporting women: 134:23–135:05

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Great skin requires only a few evidence-backed steps: sun protection, retinoids, prescription actives for particular conditions, and occasional dermatologist-led treatments if desired.
• Most “miracle” products, devices, and monthly treatments are unnecessary, and often predatory in their marketing. Throw out the toners, multi-step routines, and fancy serums unless you simply enjoy them.
• Surgery does not need to be prohibitively expensive, and the most important factors are skill, ethics, and realistic expectations—not hype, not price tag, not zip code.
• Social media and beauty marketing prey on insecurity. Cultivate “BS radar," opt out of comparison, and seek factual, unbiased guidance like Mrs. Derm provides.

Follow Melissa (@mrs.derm) on Instagram for more honest, to-the-point skincare science and recommendations.

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[All ads and non-content material have been skipped. If you listen to one Pop Apologists episode this year, make it this one—your face and wallet will thank you.]

Transcript

[Lauren]

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[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, gosh, thanks for having me. I hope I'm helpful.

[Lauren]

No, you're. You're amazing. I mean, I'll share a little bit of why I think your account and page is so useful. I never really did skincare until, I mean, honestly, like a couple years ago, but only because I found it to be such an information like overload.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And I felt like there were so many products and there's always a new product and there's. And someone's saying it's like a miracle and it does all these things and there's all these influencers peddling all these products. Yeah. And there's so many treatments, and it just seemed so exhausting to me. And I was able to ride on the fumes of youth for quite a while. And then. And then the car I'm stealing that, it just skidded to a halt, I'll tell you. I moved to Puerto Ric go at.

[Melissa Coleman]

30, and I'm 35 now.

[Lauren]

And I started to see in the mirror. I always had freckles, but I started to just see it more. Became just, like, brown and splotchy.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. And they'll start to grow together.

[Lauren]

Yes, exactly. And I. My husband. Cute. Very cutely. Sun damage is like, one of his kinks. He's, like, very into. He, like, loves freckles that after we met, he actually texted me and was like, like, you check so many boxes. And one of the things was, like, freckles. Oh, I know it's sweet, but it's actually kind of high stress for me because I'm like, to have a freckle, you have to be able to see the skin around it. And when it all becomes brown, mush. Like, we have to start clearing this up. So, anyway, long story short, I'm kind of on a journey to figure out my own skin. And your account has been so useful because I think you have such a no BS approach to skin care and.

[Melissa Coleman]

All of this, I think to the anger of some.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, I think to the anger of some because it's counterproductive to marketing and sales. Right. So if I'm sitting there saying, and I can prove it. Right. I have the goods to back it up. I can show my skin, you know, I can show, you know, followers who, you know, followed me for a while and decided to take control of their skin. And I can do it without an eye cream, and I can do it without a toner.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I can do it without, you know, switching products every week, and I can just use the same five or six products every day for years. You know, I think it's annoying to some brands and, you know, and to probably. Probably to some other skin influencers out there who do a great job at, you know, hey, I'm. I'm obsessed with these eye patches. And I'm like. And then they get sent to me like, hey, so. And so I was obsessed with these eye patches. I'm like, well, they're great. They don't do anything, but, like.

[Lauren]

But they're fine.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Like, if they make you feel good.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. One of my closest friends is a Makeup artist up here and always the eye patches. He's like, oh, my gosh. They. They want them put on. And he's like, I have to take them off. I have to wipe all that off their face. He's like, what. What is the deal with the eye patches? Yeah. But there is some psychological belief that if we put a sticker with hyaluronic acid on our face, somehow it's going to affect our wrinkles, our fine lines, how our makeup wears that day. And meanwhile, my friend Quinn is like, so I'm wiping everything off. He's like, those are great. But, like, I have to take everything that you just did I now have to remove in order to do your makeup so well.

[Lauren]

And I think there are so many things like that that are just such BS and my BS Radar just start, like. Or my antenna goes up around a lot of that stuff as well.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And so I think that's why it took me a long time to actually really be motivated to try to figure it out, because there was just so much, like. One of my favorite things that you say is completely useless are facials.

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, completely. Oh, God.

[Lauren]

I know. And I have so many friends that are like, monthly facial is crucial. You got to spend 200 bucks a month and go in.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. You have to. Right. What would happen if you didn't. Like, your face would fall off if you didn't go in and have someone vacuum it for $200.

[Lauren]

Right. Or just apply a bunch of creams.

[Melissa Coleman]

Patrick's like, I love a facial. Like, my husband is like, they're my favorite. He's like, the amount of rashes I treat from women who have had facials. Yeah. Because there's an acid, and then there's a cream poured on top of the acid. And then there's the perioral dermatitis that comes from the multiple acids, and then the creams and the steam. And he said, it's just this, like, soup recipe for your face. And then they wake up a day or two later and they have a rash. Yeah. He's like, and of course they come see me. And he's like, so I love a facial. He's like a cardiologist that encourages people to smoke.

[Lauren]

It's good for business.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. He's like, just keep it up. Like, let me know who's hot in town.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, I'll send people their way, but.

[Lauren]

So funny.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's just not. They don't do anything.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So let's. Let's talk about Patrick. Let's talk about how your account started. For the uninitiated, how did you become Mrs. Durham?

[Melissa Coleman]

So I had a different account for almost two years, and the name that I had used, I didn't realize, was partially trademarked by another account. Like, no one had ever pointed out to me that, you know, or confused me with anybody else. Yeah. And so I had to change names due to, like, you know, that. And I felt really bad. I was like, oh, my gosh. I didn't know. We're so sorry. And so my friend Amy, I was like, I need a different name. And my friend Amy was just like, what about Mrs. Durham? And I was like, that's cute.

[Lauren]

It's so cute.

[Melissa Coleman]

So it all started because I would go to Patrick's office, and I don't go there as often as I think people think I'm there. I'm there quarterly.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Unless I'm stopping by to, like, pick up a box or pick up some retin a or something. But his patients would see me. Yeah. And I'd be getting a peel, which was like, my big thing for a long time, and. Or Botox or getting my lips done and walking out with, like, you know, an ice pack on my face. And they would find me on Instagram.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because they would never talk to me, but they would find me on Instagram and they would be like, hey, I saw you at Dr. Coleman's office today, and I didn't want to say anything, but, like, what did you do?

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I was like, oh, you know, a peel or Botox or filler laser, whatever it was. And they're like, well, how, you know, how, you know I want to do that? Like, what order do I do? Like, I was going to do this, and then. And I have a personal Instagram page that's, you know, private to my friends and family and whatever. And his patients were finding me.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which is fine. But, like, that's.

[Lauren]

So in order for me to answer.

[Melissa Coleman]

The dm, like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't see the DM from them because they weren't friends. It would go in a request folder. And then when they would go back and see Patrick, they're like, I messaged your wife, and she doesn't answer me.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I'm like, oh, my gosh. So I was like, I'm just going to start a page. Yeah. Where his patients can find me. And he would do that. He would be like, well, just here's this page. Go find her. You. She'll answer whatever questions. And it just kind of Grew from there.

[Lauren]

Amazing.

[Melissa Coleman]

I think, because, you know, he's always been a dermatologist that doesn't sell anything.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

He sells two products in his office.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

He's never sold cleanser. He's never sold a moisturizer. He's never sold an eye cream or a neck cream or anything like that. He's always come from this school of thought that all that is garbage, really. It's all. Yeah. And, you know, what you actually need is retin a. And you need, like, if you have rosacea or things like that, like, you need specific creams or if you have pigment issues, you need certain creams.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But they sold. They sell retin a in office and they sell a sunscreen, an American sunscreen, but they would sell a sunscreen. And that was it. That's it. And so his patients sort of loved him because they didn't feel the big sales push. Like, you weren't walking in and being like, well, here's a wall of neutrople. You know, here's. Here's a neck cream and here's a balm, and here's, you know, all of these things. And so I've always adopted his mentality that, like, you don't need it.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well.

[Lauren]

And I think that not only do you not need it, but it can actually be counterproductive because a lot of times I would.

[Melissa Coleman]

I.

[Lauren]

So I would be like, I'm going to be a skincare girly and I would buy the. The ten step system and I would start in earnest, and then nine days into, my skin would be, like, on fire.

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren]

And then. Then I just give up because I'm. Because I. I just think, well, my. I can't handle it. And anyway, I think it can actually be irritating. It actually can.

[Melissa Coleman]

Super irritating. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Make you look worse.

[Melissa Coleman]

So, you know, I always tell people, like, let's stop playing, like, polypharmacy on our face.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, you know, I talk to people every day who ask me what my toner regimen is, and I posted about that today, actually, not only do you not need a toner for your skin, you don't need a toner regimen.

[Lauren]

Right, Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, like, what are you toning?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

What. What is untoned?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Why is. Why is your arm toned? Like, why don't we have body toners then?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, where's the toner for our neck? Like, I never understood that. So it's also predatory and it's.

[Lauren]

So. It just takes advantage of women's insecurities and It's. I don't know, it's actually when you, when you look at how much of those kind of products are on the market touted by so many people and people think are crucial and needed that are really useless, it's just kind of infuriating. It's like if the money that women spend on useless skincare products could just be put in a savings account and it could accrue compound interest over time, we could just resolve so many financial issues.

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, God. I mean, it's. I had a consult with a woman a couple of weeks ago and I didn't post about it because I don't know that I thought that people would be able to figure out who the derm was, but I just wanted to be very careful that nobody would be able to figure out who the derm was. And she sent me a picture of her morning skincare routine in her afternoon skincare or her evening skincare routine and the morning routine was 14 products.

[Lauren]

Oh my God.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I get out a calculator and I go online because it was like all skin better, you know, the medical grade bullshit. And I get out a calculator and I start adding up. And there was like evidence that she followed me in this routine because there was bioderma micellar water, there was a European sunscreen in there, and then 12 other products that I'd like the plated exosomes and like the serum. I mean, just. It was a nightmare.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And the evening was like eight products long.

[Lauren]

Oh my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

And again, evidence that she follows me because there was retin a in there, there was a compound in there. And then that was. That was it. And then more exosomes for nighttime and. Yeah, more. And the sad part is, is that she was probably 60, 65. She needed a facelift.

[Lauren]

That was like.

[Melissa Coleman]

She needed a facelift.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I said that to her. I was like, you know, none of this is going to do anything for you. Like you need a facelift. Yeah. And I said, but if you enjoy it, it's not irritating your skin. It's not taking food off your table.

[Lauren]

Right. It feels like self care.

[Melissa Coleman]

It feels like self care. You want to do 12 different things to your skin in the morning and eight things at night. And it was literally 20 products. And you know, go for it. Like it's no skin off my back.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And she said the morning routine was fourteen hundred dollars worth of skin care and the evening was like nine. And she said to me, the problem is, is that it is taking food off My table.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

She said, I go through this every two months. So she had a $700 a month skincare habit. And she said, I, you know, I, I can't take, like my annual vacations and whatever. And. And I was so mad at the derm. And I knew the derm that I wanted to call them and be like, she needs a facelift.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, she needs a facelift. And so some derms I feel like, get upset with me too, because I'm like, be a better doctor. Like, be honest about what these women actually need.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And if they're surgery averse, great. But don't sell them this in lieu of it. If they're like, I'm a never facelifter, fine. Like, not everybody has to have one. But don't sell them this. Like, this is right.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And now they're paying me to ask me which of those products they need. And they need like five.

[Lauren]

Right. First of all, that story is awful. It's really sad. And I think that it's probably. There's so many people who are in credit card debt and all, all this stuff for treatments that are completely useless.

[Melissa Coleman]

Can't you Klarna your Sephora order these days?

[Lauren]

I mean, you can Klarna like a Subway sandwich, so I'm sure you can Klarna Sephora. I think what a great way to structure this would be like, let's go from what we're doing daily and then we can talk through treatments that we might be doing like quarterly or yearly, and then we'll get to surgery, which is, you know, maybe twice in your life or something like that. Because I just think that across all of this, there's a lot of confusion. So let's, let's start with skincare. Guys, I've been screaming from the rooftops about the new clean, Simple Eats clear protein sodas.

[Melissa Coleman]

Okay.

[Lauren]

The cherry lime flavor tastes like a Shirley Temple.

[Melissa Coleman]

It is so, so good.

[Lauren]

I love the carbon and also the frosted lemonade. That's my other favorite. They've come out with these new flavors that have truly blown my mind. And they're back in stock. Everybody needs to be ordering. No, it's absolutely incredible, Chandler, what they've done with their clear protein drinks. So they have 90 calories and they are 20 grams of clean, grass fed protein. I'm obsessed. They're so easy to just grab and go. You don't mess up your kitchen. You don't dirty a blender. You can just take one on the way out the door and Boost your protein for the day. I recommend starting out with the variety pack so you can see what flavor flavors you love. I love just their traditional clear protein drinks, but the sodas are also delicious. Clean Simple Eats is truly revolutionizing how easy it can be to hit your protein goals. Everyone go to cleansimpleats.com use code POPAPOLOGIST10 for 10 off your order. They also have the best protein powders on the market. They're simply vanilla or their chocolate brownie batter. You blend in with a little ice and water. They taste like Wendy's Frosties and incredible products. Cleansimplates.com use code POPAPOLOGIST10 for 10 off your order. So let's. Let's start with skincare.

[Melissa Coleman]

Okay.

[Lauren]

What does someone need to have great skin on a daily basis? What is our daily skin care?

[Melissa Coleman]

If you can tolerate it, some people can, some people can't. A vitamin C serum first thing when you wake up in the morning.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So people with rosacea have a tough time with vitamin C. Tends to irritate it. I don't use it. I have rosacea.

[Lauren]

You don't use it. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

It irritates me.

[Lauren]

I mean, your skin really is perfection. It's. I think it's better in real life because.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, thank you. I did not feel that way this morning when I woke up, when the garbage truck woke me up at 5am.

[Lauren]

I just think it's more impressive when you see perfect skin in real life because everyone looks like they have perfect skin on Instagram, you know, so it's a little filter. Yeah. I mean, I love a Paris on a bad day. I love a double Paris.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I was, wait, where's the new one? That's the fade. There's a.

[Lauren]

Why are we doing the fade? Or it makes us look worse before we have to look.

[Melissa Coleman]

No, no, no. I think the fade. Or you do the simple. You can do the simple and then the Paris. Now, I don't Photoshop or I don't filter.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Photoshop. But I don't filter photos on my page. Right. What you guys see, unless it's a professional photo that someone else took and they're going to edit, of course, you know, whatever. But what you see is kind of what you get for, like, for. I always say, for better or worse, you know, my skin is my skin that day. But I don't use a vitamin C. I have rosacea. It tends to irritate it. There's some movement in the vitamin C world. It seems that the newer formulas that are coming out are less Irritating. They're the non ascorbic acid formulas. It's the ascorbic acid that's usually pretty irritating to people.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

If you can tolerate. Should be the first thing you wake up in the morning. Vitamin C on your face, neck, you know, chest. If you want to wash your face in the morning, great. I don't.

[Lauren]

You don't? Oh, interesting. So, okay, this is shocking. No cleanser now. Wow. This is groundbreaking information because, you know, that's, I mean, that was. This is. This really gets into how lazy I can be. But that was half my battle is just not wanting to deal with the water and like the drying.

[Melissa Coleman]

I wake up and I wake up because I don't use the vitamin C. I wake up and I'll like mistakes. Some avion on my face.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then I'll put a moisturizer on or a serum, like a, or a hydrating serum. I'm not a serum person, but I do like a hydrating serum. And then, you know, vitamin C moisturizer if you need one.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which I always say, if you need one, because people over moisturize their skin.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And it causes a lot of, you know, you'll see it this fall. You'll hear people talk about how bad their perioral dermatitis is. And it usually is from like packing on, you know, La Roche Pose, Psikoplast or Augustinus Botters, like the Rich cream or, you know, those really, really heavy moisturizers are really, really aggressive for your skin.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

And they feel nourishing. Right. Like oils feel negative and it kind.

[Lauren]

Of looks, it looks dewy afterwards. Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And you're like, oh, gosh.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And in reality, it's. Most of them are too heavy for like the average person. You know, if you're walking around. I live in New Orleans. I don't even use a moisturizer half the time.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because it's so humid there. But if, you know, if you're living in New York City or Chicago and it's January and you want to die, you know, you're probably going to need a little bit heavier of a moisturizer, but you're pretty limited. Yeah. If you're skiing, if you're in, you know, really dry northern climates, the heavier moisturizers are great if you need it. But most people still, I would challenge you. Like, let's see where you're at in January. I'll give you a hydrating serum and a regular moisturizer or a lotion, which is different than a cream. And let's See how you do. I bet you do fine with just.

[Lauren]

One of any of those. Or none of them. Yeah. So vitamin C, if you can tolerate it, moisturizer, if you feel like you need it and it's not making your skin worse. We're still not at anything required. Basically. Basically, let's do the sunscreen after we get, after we do the full routine. So that's am vitamin C more optional if you can tolerate it, Moisturizer, sunscreen. And then at night, what, is there.

[Melissa Coleman]

Anything else in the morning, people that have rosacea. So you start getting into prescription creams. Like if you have acne, you would put your topical on. If you have rosacea, like a triple cream. People, most people don't use a vitamin C and they would put that on in the morning instead.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

But no, I mean, if you're an average normal skin. Yeah, Right. Which is. I would tell you the majority of the population, although the majority of the population tells me that they have sensitive skin, and the majority of people have reactive skin based on putting on toners and acids and moisturizers and then their skin blows up.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then they're like, oh my gosh, I have sensitive skin.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, you did it. I mean, like now you do, but like you probably didn't to begin with. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Like if you irritate your skin enough, it will start to be sensitive to those.

[Melissa Coleman]

But in reality it's really, it's really reactive to what you're doing to it.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then it's like, well, we'll pack on a heavier moisturizer to combat the inflammation we just caused.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Then you're just stuck in this like, shit, shitty place with your skin. So that's morning. Evening, wash your face.

[Lauren]

Okay. So evening, we are cleansing.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, we're gonna cleanse.

[Lauren]

Okay. And is there a specific, like, should we doing it? Should we be doing a glycolic cleanser? What kind of cleanser is necessary?

[Melissa Coleman]

So there's not a universal one. Okay. So nobody has the same skin. I. I have a very specific routine. Like morning is, you know, what I do. And then I usually shower, you know, in the early evening, late afternoon or early evening, which is like, I think a holdover for my single days.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I'd get home from work and shower and then go out.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I still have that like five o' clock shower, shower mentality. And I get out of the shower, I put on a hydrator, like a hydrating serum, which is like a hyaluronic acid serum or the experiment makes one Called the supersaturated or there's a couple of them out there. And I put a moisturizer on. That's the last time a moisturizer touches my face for the entire day.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then it absorbs in dinner, watch whatever on tv. And then at night it's retin A. I have melasma, so it's a pigmentation cream pad for me. Retin A.

[Lauren]

And that's. That's not it.

[Melissa Coleman]

So you can do other things. Like if you're over 40 and you want to do the estrogen cream thing. I do that around my eyes. If you, again, if you have rosacea or things like that and you need a prescription treatment for your skin that's beyond just a sort of normal skincare routine. But that's. That's it.

[Lauren]

That's it. So we're, so we're really talking about in the morning, vitamin C, if you can tolerate it, moisturizer, if it's not making your skin worse, sunscreen at night, we're talking, we're saying cleanser, Retin A optional. Like if you have some sort of dermatologist. Sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

Prescribed, you have melasma. If you have rosacea, you can do some hydroquinone. Yeah. You can do any of those things. And then a moisturizer if you need it. But everything else is everything else.

[Lauren]

And by that basically useless.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Or, or making your skin worse. I mean, this is not an expensive routine. No. Like this is a pretty inexpensive routine, especially with how long retin A tubes last.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. You can do, I mean, you can get expensive. Like, you know, you can buy a $200 vitamin C and I would argue that, you know people about skinceuticals and it smells like a hot dog and.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Whatever. It's still the gold standard in vitamin.

[Lauren]

C. Well, okay, so I was on a vitamin C, but my, my provider for like all, like inject injectables and all the thing, all the fun things, she said to me, she's like, your vitamin C is not good enough. And she made me get the skinceuticals.

[Melissa Coleman]

My understanding is always that it's hard to keep vitamin C stable. And I don't know that skinceuticals does a great job because it oxidizes over time. But, but a lot of products do. So vitamin C tends to oxidize over time. You know, certain acids will oxidize over time, certain pads will oxidize over time. But to me, the understanding, and I know that there's companies that are going to come out of the woodwork and say, that's not true. We've kept it stable. Ours is $20.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yada yada. Which is fine if it works for you. I get a lot of people that say they don't like the way that skinceutical smells, like the way the prequel one smells or whatever. And to me, it's like you look at skinceuticals, I think it's 11 ingredients. And so they chose not to put a perfume in there.

[Lauren]

Okay. Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

To cancel the smell of the chemicals. So, yeah, it smells, but, like, it smells like healthy skin.

[Lauren]

And also, you can get over two seconds.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. Get over it. Like, it doesn't care. It doesn't smell throughout the day.

[Lauren]

Right. My husband has never said, you smell like a hot dog. Probably would like that.

[Melissa Coleman]

But I. Yeah. I mean, it's 30 seconds until it absorbs and then. Right. You know, get over it.

[Lauren]

So if we really get down to it, it just sounds like it's really sunscreen. Retin A. Yeah. Are the key things you need. And one thing that I. That you said on your account that I loved was you said sunscreen is to prevent damage, and retin A is to help, you know, like, wind back the clock and repair the damage that's been done.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. I could go back in time and pick one product at 10 years old. Right. It would be. And I think some women now are really savvy about this with their kids because the focus is so strong on it. But if I could pick one product, it would be sunscreen. Right. For the rest of my life. If I could only have that one at 10. Yeah. Because then we're preventing the majority of the damage at 46.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

It is right. If I could pick one product. It is right.

[Lauren]

It's retin A.

[Melissa Coleman]

It is absolutely, without question, retin A.

[Lauren]

When did you start retin A?

[Melissa Coleman]

I was all. I was late to the game.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Melissa Coleman]

I was late to the game.

[Lauren]

I mean, that's just so great, though, because what it goes to show is you don't have to, like, if you can get a couple years under your belt, like, you can really have incredible skin. It's not too late.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I met Patrick when I was 31, and I met him, I was smoking, like, it was literally smoking a cigarette. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. When I met him and I was a smoker for 22 years.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like a pack a day. Awful. Oh, wait.

[Lauren]

This is shocking information. Why don't you have. No. Not a single line.

[Melissa Coleman]

Those are genetic. You're gonna Get, I mean, like, if you get those, you're gonna get. Those are genetic, smoker or not.

[Lauren]

Oh, I didn't know that. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I have a lot of. I have a lot of followers that are like, I've never smoked ever. And I still have em, And I'm like, they're genetic. So if you get them, if you have a predisposition towards them and you smoke or use straws, you're gonna have them, they're gonna get worse. Right. But if you don't, you know, look at your mom, look at your dad, if they don't have them.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and they smoked, you know, chances are you're not going to get them to any great degree either. And I remember him saying to me, I remember him saying to me, like, you, you could start on retin a.

[Lauren]

Oh my gosh, wait, that is so funny.

[Melissa Coleman]

Can I introduce you to this great product that you know is the fountain of youth in a tube? And I was like, not interested.

[Lauren]

Like, oh, wait, that's amazing.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, just not. Don't care.

[Lauren]

Yeah, you're on the fumes of literal youth.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, I was like, I look great. Like, you wouldn't be talking to me if you didn't think I was pretty, so obviously I don't need that. And that sounds tedious and that sounds boring. Um, but. But I remember being like, but I'll do Botox. That seems interesting.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And years went by. Like, years went by and.

[Lauren]

Oh, really?

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, yeah. And you guys dated.

[Lauren]

Got married.

[Melissa Coleman]

Got married when I was 33.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And still I was just like, I would go in for appeal. I loved appeal. Yeah. I was big on Botox. I loved filler for my, you know, I had lip, I still have lip filler. We would put it, you know, in my temples. I had cheek filler at one point. I think it's probably gone by now and then. But still no on the retin a. Yeah. And then I quit smoking.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Ten years ago.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And he said to me, I'll never forget it. He said, I'm not gonna be able to fix what you're doing to your face.

[Lauren]

Whoa.

[Melissa Coleman]

And that was really eye opening to me because I was like, wait, what do you mean?

[Lauren]

Those are not words you want to hear.

[Melissa Coleman]

And he said, I was sitting outside, we had this like covered breezeway at our, our house. And by then I was like down to like two or three a day. And he came outside and he was like, you gotta stop. And I was like, ah, no, it's fine. And I Was like, just like, you know, like just one or two a day. And he's like, eventually I'm not gonna be able to fix what you're doing to your face. And it was literally this. I kind of thought, you know, I think a lot of people think that, that they can cur a ton of damage in the sun or alcohol or smoking or whatever, and they can just go in for a laser.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And it'll. Yeah. And at some point, the damage is so cumulative that. And, and he was correct. He cannot fix what I did to my skin. I mean, I'm 46 years old and I'm getting a facelift a month before my 47th birthday. Because this is a function of all this collagen loss from years of smoking.

[Lauren]

I mean, you look amazing. I will say. I.

[Melissa Coleman]

But, but, but it could have, like, I think about that now and I was like, oh man, why didn't I quit? Like, why didn't I quit at 31 when I met him? Like, when. Or at 25 or, you know, like, why did I continue this habit for 22 years? Yeah, and, and like aggressively continue it.

[Lauren]

I think it's like, probably because it was one of the most addictive.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, it was cool. I looked cool. My argument was like, I look cool. Like I look cold smoking.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Everybody looks cool smoking when no one looks cool smoking for sure.

[Lauren]

Well, I don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if that's the case. But definitely, definitely is the better path to not. And so, okay, so you get off smoking and you get on started retina 38. Okay? And then how long until you see a real change in difference? So we recently moved into this new house and Cake walked up to me the first night we're there and he goes, where are the gummies? All of our stuff is in boxes. But you better believe that in the special box of items I knew we would need for the first night was a bottle of early bird gummies. I cannot even tell you how much I have needed these in the last month. I had debilitating period cramps.

[Melissa Coleman]

Okay.

[Lauren]

And taking an early bird gummy helped me so much. They're basically a part of my weekend routine now. And I just swear by early bird so much. These are a multi use product. You can use them if you just want to enjoy a meal a little more, relax into watching a show a bit more, or have the best night's sleep of your Life. There are 30 gummies per bottle. I always use basically a half at a time, so a bottle will Last a couple months at least. You guys. Early birdcbd.com use code popapologist for 20% off your order. We swear by early bird CBD and you will absolutely thank us. Okay, and then how long until you see a. A real change in difference?

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, it's kind of twofold. So you see a difference in your skin in terms of, you know, it seems after you sort of get over the initial hump and some people struggle with that hump more than others.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, I didn't have any problems. I went, you know, on it. I don't remember having any purging or peeling really to speak of. But I also live with somebody who can sort of troubleshoot as I go. Right. So I'm like, this is, you know, I have a dry patch and here's a steroid cream or whatever. You start to see results, you know, in a couple of months. Okay. You know, you start, things start to feel a little bit smoother, a little bit tighter. And that tighter you usually attribute first to it being a little bit dry because it controls the oil production on your face.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which is. Retin A was FDA approved for acne, which is, you know, its initial purpose, to treat acne.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

By, by, you know, controlling the oil production on your face. And then it's almost what you don't see. You just eventually stop seeing the big signs of aging.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

So you see it, you know, it'll help brown, it'll help, it'll help sun damage a little bit. It'll help melasma a little bit. It'll help, you know, acne pore size. We can debate that. Right. But what you stop saying is, you know, it's not going to stop nasolabial folds from forming.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

That's genetic.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And the damage on them has been done.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

So like the under eye creepiness, it's not going to help that.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But like, I feel like I at some point I kind of stop aging so aggressively.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so you look in the mirror and you're like. And you look at your friends, you know, who don't use it, or you look at people who don't use it, and you can kind of tell who uses it and who doesn't. Like you can kind of say this person, you know, there's just a difference in their skin. Yeah.

[Lauren]

I mean, I definitely think I can tell. My, it's funny.

[Melissa Coleman]

My.

[Lauren]

Our oldest sister, we have five sisters in our family and one brother. And our oldest sister is, I think she's 41 now. And anyway, she's never done botox. She's. She's just a little more granola than the rest of us. But she's hyper. She's like a hyper fixation on not going in the sun. And also on tretinoin. She has amazing skin. I bet to this day she has incredible skin. And she just takes really, really good care of it. And I think that, you know, there's like a. There's like a density almost to her skin.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, it builds collagen. Yeah. So far be it from some estheticians out there to admit that ever.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because there's a day that goes by that I don't get a DM from somebody who said, my esthetician told me today I need to stop retin a because it thins the skin. Like, show me the study. Like, I just want to see one study. So there was a great study that was done on, I think it was like 65 people. And they. And it was in Asia. And they did a 4 millimeter punch biopsy on them.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And they measured, you know, collagen and their levels in their skin, and they put them on retin a for six months nightly use, pea size amount, whatever, whatever. They hauled them back in at 6 months and did a punch by the same 4 millimeter punch biopsy on their cheeks. And there was no recorded collagen growth at six months.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so they sent them back another six months and brought them back in. And at the second, at a year after that punch biopsy, it showed significant growth.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Melissa Coleman]

So it is not. It's. It is the marathon.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, it is not.

[Lauren]

It's the habit. It's the.

[Melissa Coleman]

I did retin a for two months. I didn't see any difference. I quit. Well, yeah, I mean, you're not, but you're probably not going to.

[Lauren]

And you also are very. You very much drive home on your page the point that you have to do it daily.

[Melissa Coleman]

You have to.

[Lauren]

Can you talk a little bit to that?

[Melissa Coleman]

So Patrick would tell you, which is what he's always told me. So I'm just going to quote him on this. If you do retina every other day, because some women are like, oh, I can manage it every other day. I can't manage it every day. Patrick would say it doesn't have the efficacy of it. It quarters it. So.

[Lauren]

So every other day is not half, it's a quarter.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. So if you do it every single day and your sister does it every other day, the results you get in a year will take her four years.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

To get there.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so you can do it every other day, but it's tough to get past the irritation stage when you're doing it every other day. It's much easier to get past the irritation stage when you're doing it every day.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Every other day your skin builds up retinoid receptors. Right. And so I always liken it to like a brick wall. So you build this brick wall every single day. And if you skip a day, those bricks start to come down. And so then you build more bricks up the other day. And then if you skip a day or two, those bricks come back down. So you never get there. You never, you never get to the point where you're really building up those receptors to your skin because you're not treating it every day. And you know, every day for a year. And then people are like, well, I need to take a week off for a laser. Does that mean I'm starting from scratch? No, because you've built up.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

All the retinoid receptors over time.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

So doing it every other day, it's like, it's like all retro, no vomit. Like you just don't get there. But women are terrified of retin A.

[Lauren]

So actually my retin a got delivered today. I'm. I've never done it consistently. So I'm starting on retin a today. And I was told to do it once a week, the first week, twice a week, the second, three times a week, the third, and just like really slowly to get, I guess to kind of like not to try to minimize irritation. What are your thoughts?

[Melissa Coleman]

What's wrong with being irritated?

[Lauren]

Well, I mean, I think if you, if you feel like you look bad, it's hard to stay consistent with it because you're trying to. Obviously this is, the purpose is to look better. But then if you feel like it's making you look worse.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't know, I mean. So it is your advice.

[Lauren]

Just start every day. Just go. Just go.

[Melissa Coleman]

Just go. Just go for it. Just go. Pea size amount, you know, steer clear of, you know, around your nose. A lot of. I still will get peely right here on my chin. Every once in a while. It'll for whatever reason, but just, just go.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, you do it once a week, you're peeling. The next day, the next week, you're doing it twice a week, you're peeling, you know, then you're spreading out this, like, how long does it take to.

[Lauren]

Get to the point where we're really. Our skin is used to it and not reacting very by person.

[Melissa Coleman]

Some people. A lot of people I know never have a reaction. I never had a reaction.

[Lauren]

Oh, wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, I did great. Some people react pretty violently. You know, initially, what I would say to people is a lot. You know, a lot of people, when they say a pea size amount, they. They literally mean get a pee.

[Lauren]

This is a small amount.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's a small amount for fake, you know, maybe a pea sized amount for face, half a P for the neck. But I think what people do is they start out too strong. So a lot of derms like Altrino, which is just a brand name, Retin a, but it's a little bit more emollient, it spreads a little bit better, but it starts at 0.05.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so people will get this Altrino prescription and it's 05 and their skin just hates them.

[Lauren]

It's too strong.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's. I can't use it.

[Lauren]

Oh, wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

I saw, you know, 25.

[Lauren]

For real?

[Melissa Coleman]

For real. It's all I use.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And have for years and years. Yeah. So people either. It's either too strong or they're using too much.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so when I talk to women who are like, I'm not doing well, I'm like, well, show me how much you're using and show me the tube. And invariably, it's usually one or the other. It's like a glob on their finger. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, you could cover.

[Lauren]

Like your face is gonna peel off without.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, it's gonna melt off. Like, I bet your skin's mad at you.

[Lauren]

Right? Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But I also think, and this isn't to ever blame the patient or to blame the consumer, but most people do not read directions.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, Fair. You know, we sell a compounded pad for melasma.

[Lauren]

Mm. And which I'm on day seven of right now.

[Melissa Coleman]

They're great. But I will get, you know, in with the package comes instructions. It's like a single swipe right on the face. And women, you know, I'll be like, well, how do you use it? And they're like, using it like a Stridex pad. Like, I'm like, oh, my God, I bet you're. But like, but I bet you're irritated. Right. So all of these things are active ingredients. Right. So things like hydroquinone or arbutase or. Or, you know, tretinoin, vitamin C even. These are all active ingredients. They are irritating to the skin. And I know that the goal is to be able to have this beautiful, you know, to have beautiful skin and somehow seamlessly.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Get there. Right. Like, we wake up in the morning, we apply all the shit to our face, we do it again at night, and we never react to it.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But still, somehow we have this, like, perfect skin. Right. And I always say to people, like, you have to irritate your skin, has to heal from something.

[Lauren]

Right. Again, when you're putting actives on it, it's going to react to those actives. So. And it's. It's probably just. It's similar on some level to getting a peel or getting a laser. Like, you have to do a little bit of damage on some level to it.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's a controlled damage. Yeah. Right. So vitamin C is probably not. But, you know, Retin A and, you know, arbutase or hydroquinone or some of those things. You know, Tazerac, which is like a different type of retinoid that works on different receptors of the skin. The outcome's the same, but I mean, essentially you're doing sort of a controlled damage to your skin that it heals from.

[Lauren]

So we just have to deal with a little bit of irritation and just. And because, you know, you want the good outcome.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, yeah. I mean, if the goal is the clearest skin that you can get and the goal is to age gracefully, I'm going to steal that term back, by the way, from the wellness community. Like, the age gracefully thing, like, I don't do anything. I age gracefully. Whatever. I'm stealing it back. So I think if the. That's the goal. You have to put in the work.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You don't have to use it. Like, you don't have. You know, it's not required to use Retin A or to use an active ingredient, but. But to do it well, it's going to require it. Yeah.

[Lauren]

I mean, it's. When you first start working out, you're so sore. And then if you're working out regularly, your body actually doesn't get.

[Melissa Coleman]

But if you worked out once a week at that level, you would never get out of being sore.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You would just stay sore.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Right. So you just have to get through that initial period of pain. Okay. This is so helpful briefly for the melasma girlies, the pigment girlies, which I am captain of the team. You're. You would. We're not always a porcelain princess over here. You truly are, like, so pristine. But your befores that you showed on Instagram, you fully have had melasma. You've had brown spots.

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lauren]

So please share like, how long it took you to. To resolve and. Yeah, like, a little bit of your. Your journey with that and kind of what we should be doing.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, I've had melasma for years, but it kind of comes and goes on people. Right. It's worse in the summertime. It's worse. You know, I live in a warmer climate where the sun is a little bit more direct and bright year round. But, I mean, it kind of waxes and wanes, and it'll depend on hormone levels, and it'll depend on a lot of things. And I'm on birth control, so there's always that sort of underlying, you know, elevated estrogen level, which is what is the problem. But I didn't realize how bad it was until it went away. That where it was really located on my face. I'll get to that in a second. So last summer, I went to. I had been using an estrogen cream.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

From here to here.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which is great and helpful and can be helpful for women over 40 who are sort of going through perimenopause and, like, dealing with some estrogen loss in their skin. And, you know, there's some studies that show it can be really helpful. So I was using it all over, and I was in Paris with my best friend, and we were sitting at Orly, okay. In the lounge waiting for our flight, and I went to take a selfie of the two of us because it's sort of like you don't realize what your skin looks like because you get so adjusted to and accustomed to your own reflection every day. So when things get perceptively worse, you don't really pick up on it. And for as much as, like, I feel like I'm on camera sometimes with my page, I. I don't know. Like, I take pictures of my friends, but I'm always the photographer of the group. Like, I'll sit back and take pictures of everyone. And I took a selfie of her and I. And I. It was in this natural light, like, all windows at Orly. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, I had, like, a brown stripe going down the side of my. I mean, it was. I had to, like, it looked like I was going to sprout horns. Like, it was so brown right here that it looked dented.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I didn't pick up on it because a. The iPhone.

[Lauren]

IPhone makes it worse, I will say.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. But I had no makeup on because I was getting ready to get on a flight. So normally when you take a selfie you're right. You know. You're ready. Yeah. I looked at the photo and I was just like, oh, my God. Like, what is. What is going on here? And Shelly was like.

[Lauren]

Wow. Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't think I ever noticed that before on you. And I was like, where is this coming from?

[Lauren]

Okay, so the iPhone. The iPhone photo kind of revealed something that was a little bit harder to see in person, would you say?

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, because I think they shoot sharp.

[Lauren]

Yeah. No, I do think when you take a selfie, my pigment, like when I look in the mirror and then if I look at a selfie, it's like 10x darker.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, they shoot really sharp. And a friend of mine who's a photographer said that we, you know, this distance, like, the camera, like, the lens is not. We weren't meant to shoot our faces with this kind of lens from this. From two feet away. Yeah. If you were going to shoot a wide angle or something like that, it would be more realistic to what you actually look like. But the. The selfie culture has this now shooting these. These crazy.

[Lauren]

Such a good point. You have to think about, like, I don't know, sometimes a selfie can get me down. And I feel like we're never two feet away from someone's face. We're always like, four feet or five feet away from someone's face. This episode of Pop Apologists. Is brought to you by booking.com booking.com is such a popular app amongst my traveler friends. And honestly, if you have a vacation rental, this is the site for you. Since 2010, Booking.com has helped over 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. And let me just emphasize that I said billion with a B. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com. and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? Your rental property will be viewed by a massive global audience of unique travelers. Whether your rental is ideal for the solo traveler, big families, or just some friends getting together, you can register your property in as little as 15 minutes. And nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to bookings.com and start your listing today. Get seen get booked on booking.com well.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then you go on, you know, Instagram or whatever. And the. The mean habit is now when somebody posts a photo is to screenshot that photo and zoom.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I was like, when was the last time you walked up to a friend and you were like, right here. Like, looking at, like, do you have broken capillaries right there on the side of your face?

[Lauren]

Such a good point.

[Melissa Coleman]

So. But the photo was so wild to me, and I just. I was like, what? Like, what the fuck? Like, what is going on? Why am I so, like, so brown? Yeah. And I get on the plane and I'm, like, going through my routine in my head, and I was like, oh, my God. See? Estrogen cream. Yeah. Because that's obviously oral estrogen causes melasma. Topical estrogen would. And there are companies out there that swear that it doesn't. Mm. And now they've altered that. Their statement on that.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, my Alloy, who's a company. I love. I love. I use their estrogen cream. It didn't used to say it on their website. I don't have any brand dealing with them. It just happens to be the one that I use. I don't use the Musely one because it has vitamin C in it.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

It doesn't work for my skin. But now it says if you have melasma, you know, caution.

[Lauren]

So you saw these brown spots, And.

[Melissa Coleman]

I immediately stopped using.

[Lauren]

And did it immediately go away?

[Melissa Coleman]

No, because melasma's mean, right? Yeah, like, it's mean and it's persistent. Yeah. And it's like it wants to be. I feel like it wants to be. And now we're in June, so now it's the summer.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I was in New York for a couple of days, and with. With my friend on our way back, and I took a picture of the two of us, and I. And I posted it online. And someone, you know, a dermatologist friend of mine was like, called me and was like, what is wrong?

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

I was like, oh, my God. I know. And I was like, it's. It's the estrogen cream.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And, you know, we talked about solutions, and I said, I have some hydroquinone cream at home. I'll be there in a couple of days. And she offered up a different solution to it. And. And that's what became this compound that was. Okay.

[Lauren]

The compound you're referring to is called the Coleman compound. And I will say the before and afters are crazy.

[Melissa Coleman]

They're crazy. I never Asked for a photo. Yeah. So you'll go to my page. You'll never see me ask anybody, like, please send pics. You know, every single person sends them sort of voluntarily. And I say, can I share? No pressure. Some people say no. Some people, like, I just want you to see. And I'm like, that's great. Never. I don't. Of course it matters to me. And then other people are so happy and so relieved that their skin no longer looks like that, that they're like, absolutely. Share away.

[Lauren]

It's an active ingredient, arbutase.

[Melissa Coleman]

So people think Alpha Arbutin was, you know, a popular skincare ingredient. You know, there's a bunch of products that have Arbutin in it. There might still be a skincare company called Alpha Arbutin. Okay. It wasn't shown to be super effective.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

But when you combine it with an enzyme, it's shown to be hyper effective.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so we worked with the company that produces it for us, but it was produced for other people as well. Like, there are other doctors in this country that work with RBT's. But we got to the point where I wanted a proprietary product. Like, I wanted something that if you wanted this and you wanted those results to a great degree, you'd have to buy. So we altered the formula recently of the product, and, you know, it's slightly more effective now, slightly less irritating.

[Lauren]

Okay. So two things. One, this episode is in no way sponsored. I asked Melissa to come on. I reached out. So I just want to say that as we're talking about a product that you sell, just be totally, totally transparent with everyone. I am on day seven, I paid for it with my own money. I did not get a discount even.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I didn't even know you had it.

[Lauren]

It's in my bathroom right now.

[Melissa Coleman]

I do know.

[Lauren]

Well, I'm just so excited because these before and afters, they're not like, I've been on this for a year. It's like 30 days, 60 days. Significant improvement.

[Melissa Coleman]

Significant.

[Lauren]

Like the type of improvement I see when people get, like, a cosmet peel, like, very. And. But a cosmon peel, you are, like, seriously peeling for three weeks. You're like, face is a tomato for three weeks. And it's a horrible process. It looks. At least it looks that way. And so anyway, it seems just incredible. So I'm super excited about it.

[Melissa Coleman]

There are people who get crazy results on it, and I've seen some sort of mind blowing. Yeah. You know, where I'm like, are we sure that this is Right. You know, like not. These aren't edit like they're great. But I always try to keep in mind, like you have melasma, you do not have, you know, like the melasin that you have is, is close to your skin tone. Right. So some of the results that I see on there are, you know, the contrast is so high because the, because they're actually very pale fair skinned people to begin with. And their melasma is so dark.

[Lauren]

Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so you get these like unbelievable results. And a lot of times it's olive tones. Skin I see a lot because all tone skin. People generally speaking, don't wear sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

They don't need it.

[Lauren]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. So I always say about skin, you know, women like us and even more so even you. Yeah. You're fairer than I am. Yeah. Fair skinned women catch the brunt of aging early. Yeah. The sun.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, it just affects us. Were also the easiest to fix.

[Lauren]

Oh, interesting. Okay. Well that's started out so bad, but it ended well.

[Melissa Coleman]

So it's easiest to laser fair skin. They react best to, you know, fair skin does well with CO2s. It does well with different lasers. It's easier to clear damage.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

On fair skin, olive and darker. So olive brown. You know, Indian, African American skin takes much longer to age, but once you.

[Lauren]

Do, it's way harder to treat.

[Melissa Coleman]

Really hard to fix it.

[Lauren]

Interesting. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so I have friends, I'm sure you have friends, you know, Italian or.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and they look great. And I like, one of my best friends is Indian and she and I are the same age and she looks much younger than I do. Yeah. You know, because she's got, right, you know, this like perfect skin tone. You know, there's no discoloration, there's no red, there's no anything. There's also, you know, she uses sunscreen, but she would tell you that her friends, you know, her other friends, you know, they're Indian, oftentimes don't because they don't need it. Right, right. But then once that damage starts kicking in.

[Lauren]

Right. Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

Okay, well, really tough to fix.

[Lauren]

Everyone wear sunscreen no matter what your skin tone is for. If you're using the Coleman compound. No hydroquinone.

[Melissa Coleman]

None.

[Lauren]

None. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Can't.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

It just would be. You can, you can try like I tell people, like, can I try it? I'm like one way to find out. But like I wouldn't.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, you're layering way too many active ingredients at that point.

[Lauren]

Okay. And. And would you say that. What's the normal range to see results?

[Melissa Coleman]

I think for a normal person, I started to see a real difference after two weeks.

[Lauren]

After two weeks. That's crazy.

[Melissa Coleman]

I started to see, like it was getting lighter, like.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

But again, you have to put in the work. Right. So you have to wear sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Right. So all.

[Melissa Coleman]

And the other thing with active ingredients, you know, tretinoin being one of them, arbutase, hydroquinone. Any of those, they're gonna make you more photosensitive to the sun. So if. If you don't wear sunscreen, you're.

[Lauren]

You're actually, like, making it worse.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, it's not going to get better. And if it's not going to get better, it's not going to get better very quickly.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

So it's gonna, you know, your. Your skin's gonna be a little bit more vulnerable with the use of those active ingredients. So. Yeah, you have. I mean, you have to have, like, a religious experience with sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Yeah. You know what I do, and this is a. My sister kind of got me on this, but I have a UV mirror, and it's just super satisfying to, like, put on your sunscreen and watch your face, basically. Do you have a UV mirror?

[Melissa Coleman]

No, I have that camera.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

From. Yeah, that pavise camera that you hook up to your phone.

[Lauren]

They're on Amazon. They're like 30 bucks. And anyway, you can just put on your sunscreen in the mirror and you watch your face go to where it's completely black.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

You're, like, protected, and it's so satisfying to see. So anyway, I have it, and it sits next to the coffee maker, and I have sunscreen. And so my. What I do, because I have windows in my apartment is I put on. I put on sunscreen as my coffee is being made, and then I, like, drink coffee, and then I do, like my morning skincare afterwards. But I'm. I try to have sunscreen on from, like, the moment I'm exposed to light.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. I mean. And the reapplication is, I think, tough for a lot of women. Yeah. Because they work and carpool and work out and all those things. I think the reapplication is where a lot of things go south. I'm terrible at it.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Terrible.

[Lauren]

So how often are you reapplying during the day?

[Melissa Coleman]

Many days. I don't.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, I'll put it on, you know, before I go to the gym.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, I'll walk to the gym or whatever and I'll put it On. And then I come home, you know, run some errands, whatever. I don't know that I reapply it again.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

The second time. But if you're in and out, I think a lot of people get caught in that. Like, if they're in and out of their car, especially being in the car all day, like, you have those, you know, road warriors that drive all day long and they do carpool and they, you know, and the left side of their face just gets beat. Yeah. And everybody's. Almost everybody's left side ages worse.

[Lauren]

Oh, interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

Then they're right. Like, everyone's a little bit asymmetric, but, like, I remember when we would do filler, Like, I need more on my left side.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

I think with my upper left, we remove more skin on the left side than the right.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because you just age poorly there. Yeah.

[Lauren]

So we're trying to reapply as much as we can. So let's talk about European Union sunscreens, EU sunscreens, and US sunscreens. So I was actually chatting with my dear friend Elizabeth, friend of the pod, and I was like, you gotta follow Mrs. Durham on Instagram because you're gonna die. And she said, is that. US sunscreens protect from sunburns, but EU sunscreens are the only one actually protecting against aging. And she, like, grips my hand across the table and she goes. She says, but, Lauren, that's all we care about is the aging.

[Melissa Coleman]

I know.

[Lauren]

What are you talking about? So can you please share the deep need we all have for EU sunscreens, how necessary they are?

[Melissa Coleman]

So in the United States, sunscreen is classified as a drug.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which means that in order to get, you know, a filter like Ava Benzone, which is a major filter in US Sunscreen, in order to get that approved, they would have to go through fda, the FDA clinical trials to, you know, test on animals, the whole nine. Yeah. In the eu, it's. It's classified as a cosmetic. And so they, you know, the process to get filters approved is much quicker.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

The science is there, you know, l', Oreal, sort of, I guess, you know, I don't know. I mean, they're the leader in that field because they have the filter mix oral 400 patented, which is probably the best filter on the planet right now, protecting your skin. And it's only in one of their lines, so it's in one La Roche Posay line called UVMUN400. It's not even in all of their lines because they classified as a cosmetic. There's A lot more wiggle room in terms of updating sunscreens. Keeping them current, keeping them more protective, you know, over longer periods of time. The broad spectrum protections better. The Australians. There's been some controversy over Australian sunscreen as of late have an even stricter broad spectrum requirement because one in three people there will get skin cancer.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

In their life.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

So the US hasn't updated a filter for sunscreen since the 1990s.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So we have 30 plus year old technology in this country. Whereas the Europeans updated annually.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so the best way I can sort of word it is, you know, US sunscreens will protect you from getting sunburned. The UVB damage. So be for burn. Right. And they'll do an okay job. Yeah. You know, I mean I can't remember the last time even prior to this knowledge that I got a pretty bad sunburn.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

With sunscreen on me.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

I've earned some without. But the. They don't do much to protect, protect against uva.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And that's going to be your longer rays like your aging. So they're pretty useless.

[Lauren]

This is earth shattering information. So. Okay. And I. And one of the, one of the things I think that like I appreciate so much about the content that you have is you're selling Coleman compound. But that's it. Like you're really. Actually everything you promote is stuff that people need to buy elsewhere. Well yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And you know the compound is.

[Lauren]

It's like for one specific.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's for a specific person. It's totally sun damage or melasma. That's it. And that does not, you know, that.

[Lauren]

Doesn'T apply to a lot of people.

[Melissa Coleman]

If I could figure out now if I could figure out a cream right here. Red.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which doesn't exist and never will exist because you have to have the vasculature your face. But if I could figure out that we would all.

[Lauren]

It's never gonna happen.

[Melissa Coleman]

My father in law is Derma as well as like I asked him is that possible and he's like it's never, it's never gonna happen.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

So yeah. It's just a very niche, niche product for a very specific problem. And whether people use it or not. That's right. I don't care.

[Lauren]

Totally.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like if it's helpful to you, great. If it's not. But sunscreen's helpful to everyone.

[Lauren]

I just, I, I think it's like the things I see you most often promoting are like is retin A and then eu sunscreen. You know how every home has that one spot you dream about all day. For me, it's my bed and my personality is that the second I have wrapped my activities, my work, the things I need to do during the day, I'm just dying to get back under the covers. That is because of my Cozy Earth setup. The sheets are made from viscose from bamboo, so they actually help wick away heat and moisture while you sleep. Just smooth, cool, ridiculously comfy sheets that make it very hard to get up when the alarm goes off. I also love the bubble cuddle blanket. It's plush, textured, and somehow looks Chicago.

[Melissa Coleman]

Draped over the bed.

[Lauren]

You can try Cozy Earth risk free with their 100 night sleep trial and 10 year warranty. Though I honestly don't see these sheets leaving your bed once they arrive, head to cozyearth.com and use my code pop for 40% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, make sure to let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Because your bed should be more than a place to sleep. It should be your happy place. Cozy Earth makes that possible. So where can people get EU sunscreen? Can we. Can we say? Or do they just need to. Google is like illegal? No, like talking about drugs.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, it is illegal in the United States to have it to.

[Lauren]

To possess it.

[Melissa Coleman]

Not to possess it, but to sell it. So you can't sell it in this country because it would be an unapproved drug.

[Lauren]

But there are companies where you can buy it online.

[Melissa Coleman]

There were.

[Lauren]

Oh, there were.

[Melissa Coleman]

So we have a tariff issue now.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I don't get into politics on my page.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

But elections have. Consequences matter. Right. In certain areas. And it is a bipartisan agreement, though. So I've never.

[Lauren]

Aging is a bipartisan issue.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. So there's a bill that's been introduced that was bipartisan in Congress to. To try and get some filters updated. Congressman Eric Swalwell's team I've spoken to just on policy, you know, trying to educate. I know they've met with l' Oreal now to try and figure out will they spend the money. Yeah, you know, can we get l' Oreal to spend the money in the. And the answer is. I don't know what the answer is. My guess is the answer is no. To spend the money in the US they'd have to rerun clinical trials. And those are hundreds of millions of dollars. Their research shows that it doesn't increase the amount of people who would actually use sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So because the skin cancer rates in Europe are high. Yeah. Just because you have the product doesn't mean that you're going to use it.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and so the argument is like, well, look at the Europeans. They have skin cancer. Well, of course they do. Yeah. But they have access to preventing it better.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

We can't convince them to use it. But they do have it. We don't even have it available to us.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

So there are websites, cosmetics.comstylevana has some European, some Asian. Care to Beauty has some. Yes. Style. I mean, there's some.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Out there.

[Lauren]

So you got to figure this out, people.

[Melissa Coleman]

But you're gonna get a tariff bill attached to it.

[Lauren]

Oh, well.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I've seen some big ones.

[Lauren]

Oh, really?

[Melissa Coleman]

I had one. I've seen somebody DM me and they said they love to send the bills too. So I can see them. They bought like 210 worth of sunscreen, and they got a tariff bill for 400.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. I will say. I. My sister sent me a Japanese sunscreen. She was like, they're. It's listed on Amazon right now. My favorite. Get this.

[Melissa Coleman]

Wouldn't get it.

[Lauren]

I wouldn't get it.

[Melissa Coleman]

Why? There's a lot of fake sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Well, but that's why she was like, you need the UV mirror to make.

[Melissa Coleman]

Sure that it's real. It doesn't mean it's Japanese. It could be some shitty American sunscreen. Oh, interesting. I mean, it could be copper tone that they're shoving into. Not that there's anything. Well, yeah, but it could be anything.

[Lauren]

Okay, so we're really just looking at a bad tariff bill, potentially.

[Melissa Coleman]

I've seen them. I've seen 20 tariff bills.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I've seen bigger ones. You guys are lucky in New York because there's all of these little pharmacies here that carry the. That carry European sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Oh, wait, I didn't know that. How do you. You could just walk in and buy it in New York.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, there's a bunch.

[Lauren]

Is this like a underground market? Oh, okay, excellent. Well, that's great to know about.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't see it in a lot of other cities.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

But.

[Lauren]

Oh, amazing.

[Melissa Coleman]

There's definitely. Oh, yeah, they're going to upcharge you. So I say this to everybody. Here's your safest bet. Yeah. Because people ask, you know, how do I know it's European and not American? There is no American version of Uvmune 400. There is no American version of it. It's the Angelios larouche Posay. It looks like the stuff you can get at Target, it is not the stuff you can get if it says UVMune 400 on it. There is no American version because the 400 stands for Mixoril 400, which is not approved here.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So when you're traveling overseas, which they don't approve American sunscreen overseas, so they wouldn't carry our stuff anyway. But if you run into, you know, a pharmacy here that has them, there's a couple, I've seen, you know, four or five of them. There's some places in Long island that have them now. They're just like these little European pop ups or pharmacies that exist. Like there was one called West Cambridge on Lexington and 60 something that I saw the other day that I was like, oh, amazing. We don't want to get them in trouble.

[Lauren]

Yeah, okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, but so, so what's the.

[Lauren]

Name of the one people need to find? It's called.

[Melissa Coleman]

It'S the Angelios. So it's going to look like. When you think of a Laura Posay sunscreen, it looks like that, but on the bottle it will say Uvmune 400.

[Lauren]

Uvmune 400. And it won't say that on the American version.

[Melissa Coleman]

No, does exist.

[Lauren]

Okay. So you gotta basically figure it out, folks.

[Melissa Coleman]

Go to Europe, right?

[Lauren]

Or go to France and it's always, it's always a good idea to go to Europe. So. Okay, I want to talk about treatments and then I'll talk about surgery.

[Melissa Coleman]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Because I think we've covered sunscreen and skin care comprehensively. So thank you. Treatments. We're talking about lasers, we're talking about Morphe, like Morpheus, all the crazy things you can do. What do you think actually is useful?

[Melissa Coleman]

So I think it varies wildly. There's a lot. There's a lot, right? There's, you know, I think there's just sort of general categories of lasers. The first thing I would say to everyone, because the number one question I get is what do you think of Fraxel?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And like, well, it's a brand, not a laser.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So Fraxel is a brand and they not a type of laser. They own four lasers now. I think the fourth one's launching. So it depends wildly on what a. What your skin looks like, what skin tone you are, what your problems are. There's not a universal laser for everyone, right? When people are like, what do you think? You know, what do I need? And then the question I get a lot lately is what do I need for maintenance? And I have absolutely no idea what that means. Like, what maintenance Yeah, a maintenance laser. So there are lasers for red that treat solely red. Vascular lasers that'll treat melasma. Well, actually a lot of people with melasma have an underlying red issue.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

They have broken capillaries that contribute to the melasma. And so sometimes people with melasma, it's twofold, you can do a laser for red and it actually helps. So you have vascular lasers, you have resurfacing lasers, and you have various resurfacing lasers, like light to heavy resurfacing. And then you have, I don't consider them lasers, but you have the things like Morpheus 8. You have things like Softwave Ulthera, you know, sort of your, I don't know, like tightening treatments, I guess, for lack of a better term.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, it all depends on, like, what do you want? So, so for redness, what laser? The V beam. It's the gold standard.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

The Derma V is one that, you know, it gets a lot of attention. Patrick's looked at that one and then the xlv.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

But IPL is not going to do much for red. Bbl, bbl Hero are not going to do. Really? You need a vascular laser and they treat only red.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So those three, the Derma V, the V beam and the XLV are your three for red.

[Lauren]

Okay. For pigment.

[Melissa Coleman]

Depends. Yeah. What kind of pigment? So what's your skin tone? Yeah, people that are fair can use pretty much any laser.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So you can use a Fraxel, any of the Fraxels, halos, the moxies, CO2s.

[Lauren]

And they're all good. Sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

No, I mean, I'll tell a 28 year old all day long. Go do Moxie and Halo annually and maybe you won't ever need a CO2 when you hit my age. Right. If you're over, if you're chasing 40 and you're just getting into lasers, some of those are, are kind of lightweights.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I don't know, you know, they're repeatables. So Patrick always says, like, if it worked, why didn't it work?

[Lauren]

I love that.

[Melissa Coleman]

So, like, why are we doing this over and over and over again if it worked well?

[Lauren]

And I will say I had clear and brilliant done and I felt like it did nothing. But also it took me a week to feel normal again, to look, if.

[Melissa Coleman]

It works, why didn't it work? Right? And so, and that's a repeatable. Like that's one that's sold to come in every month. It's $350 or you know, it is in New Orleans. And, you know, people never get there. Yeah. Like, they never get to interject a different laser because they're always recovering from the one that didn't do much.

[Lauren]

Right. Like, it's basically. Is it CO2? That's.

[Melissa Coleman]

I'm a CO2 fan. I've done it three times.

[Lauren]

Even with melasma prone skin, you treat it.

[Melissa Coleman]

You just treat it afterwards.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, you just treat your melasma. It can flare. Doesn't always, but I've done my eyes twice and then I did a full face two years ago.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

It probably flared my melasma to begin with. And then it doesn't keep melasma at bay by any stretch of the imagination.

[Lauren]

But it helps a lot with texture, fine lines, like all that resurfacing, that.

[Melissa Coleman]

We texture, tone, sun damage. It's great at. It doesn't tighten, which I think is a misnomer.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Talk a lot about, like, what laser? You know, will it tighten? You see online, people co twoing people's eyelids and you see this immediate, like, tightening.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

They're burning your skin. Like, it's immediately like you. You've now burned the top layer of their skin. So it's retracting. It's not tightening. Yeah. It's going to swell in about 30 minutes and that retracted skin is going to blow up and no one's going to think that that skin's any tighter. And, you know, for fine lines, crepey skin, I get a lot. Like, how do I fix crepey skin? You kind of don't, you know, the under eyes a little bit. You know, it'll help a little bit. Yeah. Under eyes, to me, give everybody away.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

No matter what. I was looking at a picture of Lindsay Lohan, a real picture of Lindsay Lohan, and she looks great. Like, she looks great. Like, no, whatever. We're not getting. I'm not getting into like all the what does she do? Thing, but her under eyes give her away because it's still that very crepey skin.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Here and here. Lasers, when used correctly, there's not, you know, not everybody needs a laser.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, you know, not everybody is a candidate for a laser. And I, I would argue that doing a peel is probably more effective for.

[Lauren]

A lot of women. Oh, interesting. Okay, what peel?

[Melissa Coleman]

TCA peel.

[Lauren]

TCA peel.

[Melissa Coleman]

So just a custom, you know, TCA pill, like the diamond glow. Whatever. Patrick always says it's my favorite saying of his, no box wine and no box peels.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So like the, the box Peel that your esthetician is going to do that has like, you know, you know, the velvet, you know, snazzy peel. Like he just rolls his eyes, he's like, I mean, come on, you want a medium, you know, light to medium depth peel that your dermatologist is going to do.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Your recovery on that is five days probably. But a lot of times women and they don't think of it because they think of a laser as aggressive. The laser is aggressive and it's going to work and it's going to do things.

[Lauren]

Right. When in reality, strong the laser.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. Like when in reality. I tell this story all the time. There was a woman in Patrick's office, and this is probably 10 years ago. And I walked in, I don't know what I was doing, but she was checking out, her hair was wet, like shower wet. And she had on like, like a swimsuit cover up. And I'm like, what's going on here? And she had the most beautiful skin I'd ever seen.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And it was that indiscernible age, right? She looked awesome for 50, right? Or she looked awesome for 70 and terrible for 50. Like you don't know, right? Like you couldn't tell how old she was. And I just remember saying to him, like, what are you doing to her? Like, what is she getting? Like, I want that.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

And he said, she comes in here, she had a skin cancer on her back a while back and we had to cut it out, whatever. And she comes in every single month for appeal for a full body peel.

[Lauren]

A full body peel they throw in the shower. Wait, I'm sorry, what? Yeah, I didn't even know that's possible. I thought you'd like your. I don't know, just.

[Melissa Coleman]

I've never done it. I've done.

[Lauren]

She comes in for arms, body, you know, shoulder.

[Melissa Coleman]

But I've had friends who will go in and they will do. I mean, head to toe.

[Lauren]

This is shocking.

[Melissa Coleman]

She was stunning and like the skin. And I said, how long has she been doing it? He said, she comes in once a month and she's done it for years.

[Lauren]

So the. So appeal monthly could be something. Or bi monthly or whatever. That's really gonna help.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And that could be as strong, be more effective than the laser even.

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, 100% crazy.

[Lauren]

Five day recovery is nothing.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, and it's not recovery. Like you're not red, you're not like, you're like a laser, you know, your face isn't melting off, you're peeling. Like you would, you know, like if you rub your face, the skin's rolling up underneath it. Yeah. You're peeling. Yeah. Like sunburn peel. But you're not sunburned looking.

[Lauren]

You guys. I recently went on a supplement and I have to tell you, we redid my blood work four months later and my levels were so much healthier. And I've been so passionate about tracking my health ever since. And do you know what I used to do that Function. It's the only health platform that gives me data most people never get and the insights to actually do something about it. Inside function, you get access to test over a hundred biomarkers. Most of us only think about immunity once we're already sick. But function shows what's happening before you hit the drugstore. Medication phase markers like vitamin D, white blood cell count, ferritin and cortisol can reveal your body's rundown. Inflamed or low on reserves. Function Health helps me make better decisions about my body. And you should try it out for yourself. Learn more. Enjoy using our link function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And my first 1000 followers get a hundred dollar credit toward their membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com popapologists or use gift code papabologist100@signup to own your health.

[Melissa Coleman]

I did pills for years. Like arms face. Yeah. I got away from them when I started doing Retin A every night.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And that's really when I just cut. Because I use Retin A on my arms.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And all that. But it used to be Peel Leisure. Peel Leisure. Peel Leisure. So if you wanted, like, if you come down to New Orleans and I can have you for three months.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to Patrick's office. We're gonna peel you.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Melissa Coleman]

Two weeks later, we're gonna laser you. And then two weeks later, we're gonna peel you again. We're gonna laser you again. We're gonna peel you again. We're gonna lose you again. We're doing it till we complete three of each.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I'm gonna send you on your way and you're gonna have the skin of your life. Wow. We're gonna send you on your way with Retin A.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and sunscreen.

[Lauren]

Okay. If someone was like, I really want to kickstart this Appeal. Appeal always. And then a laser. Yeah, Appeal and then a laser. And just kind of do that until you get to where you want to be.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. You can. Toggle back and forth.

[Lauren]

And that will do it. Two weeks apart.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yep.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

That laser is going to be.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Which laser are you doing? Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

BBL hero. Those are your two big ones. You're not going to do a resurfacing laser. So you're not going to do. You can't do a peel and then a fraxel peel in a moxie or a peel and a halo. And you know, people get into like the. What about the cool peel thing? And it's not a peel. It's an underpowered CO2 that has a cool setting. And Patrick's like, just do an actual peel. Yeah, like they're, you know, in his office. It's. They're ridiculously priced because his dad, my father in law, who's sort of this like legend in Durham, he's still the editor of the Derm surgery Journal. I mean, he's like this guy, right?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

He believed that everybody needed appeal. And so when people would come in for Botox or whatever, every visit. Yeah. The peel was free. Oh, wow.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

So if you came in for Botox, they would peel you for free. Yeah, because my father in law just believed everyone. And it's a nickel's worth of chemicals, right? It is literally a nickel.

[Lauren]

Oh, really? So they're cheap? Cheap for the provider.

[Melissa Coleman]

Oh, it's nothing. It's a vat of chemicals. They could. They're all cheap. Yeah. I mean, think there are things with overhead attached to them. Botox fillers. They have an overhead attached, but a jug of tca crazy. It's like, yeah, it's a nickels. Or Patrick, he's like, it's a nickel's worth of chemicals. You know, he feels bad charging. They finally had to charge because people were like, oh, I really, like, I'm not here for Botox. I just want.

[Lauren]

Right. I just want the peel.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so forever. They were $80.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Wow.

[Lauren]

That's.

[Melissa Coleman]

And now they think they're 100.

[Lauren]

Amazing.

[Melissa Coleman]

I think they're 100 bucks. And other germs will charge more for them, but they shouldn't be.

[Lauren]

So we need to be calling our dermatologist office or going to a dermatologist office.

[Melissa Coleman]

So mad at me.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

What, because they don't want to do them?

[Lauren]

Oh, they don't want to do them. Why?

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't know. A lot of derms that do TCA peels do them because they're the ones that handle that particular chemical. It's strong. It can burn you. I think we all saw.

[Lauren]

We all Saw the girl who got burned by.

[Melissa Coleman]

I think there's an argument. Was that phenol. There was an argument. Was that tca? It was something, because the frosting.

[Lauren]

That's what I wanted to talk about. Because it's like, if you're in the wrong hands, this is actually potentially disfiguring stuff.

[Melissa Coleman]

So this is where I get angry.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. So I'm like, as supportive and nice as possible, but I start to get really angry. These are medical procedures. Like, microneedling is a medical procedure. Peels to that strength are truly any strength. But, like, these are medical procedures. Like lasers are medical. They're classified as medical procedures. So to have a mid level, like, first of all, there's no such thing as a medical esthetician. It doesn't exist. It is an esthetician that works in a doctor's office and they call themselves medical estheticians because it sounds more official, Right. It sounds like a bigger deal than what it is. Right. And I have no problem with an esthetician. I think that they're a lovely, wonderful cog in the whole story. Should they be doing lasers without supervision by a doctor? No. Yeah. And by a dermatologist or a plastic surgeon? In my opinion, no. Should they be doing injections? Absolutely not. Should they be doing peels like that? Not in a million years. Like, not. Because what happens when your face gets fucked up? Who are you calling?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

You're calling a derm. Yeah. You're calling a plastic surgeon. You are now disfigured permanently.

[Lauren]

That story is so sad.

[Melissa Coleman]

They, you know, they build a rapport with an esthetician. Estheticians have all the time in the world to sit and talk to you. A dermatologist doesn't.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I say this to people all the time. They'll DM me and they'll be mad at their derm because they waited six months to get an appointment for a skin check. The derm comes in, your insurance is kicking them 80 bucks or whatever for that skin check, right. They have 40 other people waiting, right. They have five minutes with you because that's what your insurance company pays for.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

And then when you want to talk about peels and Botox and lasers, they.

[Lauren]

Don'T have time, Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

And I'm like, we have to schedule the appointment you need.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

First of all. So if you need to talk about that, you need to schedule that. So people get frustrated and they go, well, I'm going to go see an esthetician, because they have 30 minutes to talk to me. And they watch the same TV shows as I do.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And they don't have 40 people waiting. And so I'm going to build a rapport with them, and I'm going to trust them. And then they get burned. And they literally get burned.

[Lauren]

I mean, it's in nickels worth of chemicals. But those chemicals, even if they're not, if they're cheap, they can still disfigure you permanently.

[Melissa Coleman]

Never fix that.

[Lauren]

Well, I have a scar right here from this really stupid situation where I ran headfirst into a sign in Puerto Rico, where I live, running across the street. And this scar is like. It's so no one notices it. It's.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, I don't see it.

[Lauren]

It's very invisible. But I see it every day when I look in the mirror every day. And I know how minor it is, so I just cannot even imagine. I mean, hers is major.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And so, okay, forever. Forever. So you can't laser that off. It's just.

[Melissa Coleman]

You can improve it. I mean, you can always improve.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

So lasers will always improve, like, things that. You can improve that. She'll get improvement over the years, right? To a degree. But laxity will kick in eventually. And so, you know, your skin starts, you know, getting more lax. You lose the elasticity as you get older, and so the scars look worse. So acne scars tend to look worse as you get older because the gravity, you know, they start to sort of sink. People complain about their pores more so as they get older because they start to stretch, you know, because ever so slightly, the skin's moving down. I mean, you can't get past that. You can't stand that.

[Lauren]

Well, I think that would help.

[Melissa Coleman]

I would think. Not microdermabrasion, which is. But actual dermabrasion would probably help. Yeah. But she's disfigured forever when you.

[Lauren]

Well, the thing I didn't know is that when you have, like, something that happens like that to your face or really anywhere, I guess, on your body, most likely. But I know on your face, like, this color never comes back. So. So that's the thing that's kind of crazy is, like, the part that I have the scar is white, and it doesn't have the same pigment as the rest of the skin surrounding it. Apparently you can, like, microneedle Latisse into your skin.

[Melissa Coleman]

Some evidence it might do something. Yeah, Some evidence that running a CO2 across it and then putting Latisse. Patrick would tell you that tattooing in. Yeah, Latisse would be the best option. The best option of those three. So if you can find someone to tattoo it in.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

It might repigment the area. People scar how they scar as well. So she's lucky she didn't scar purple. Wow.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

From that.

[Lauren]

So for everyone who's listening and they're thinking, I want to book a TC appeal, I want to book a laser. We're. We're saying you need to go to a dermatologist's office, and it's the dermatologist who needs to provide the service.

[Melissa Coleman]

Somebody in their office does. I don't think Patrick's ever handled the microneedling pen. Okay. Ever.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't think he's ever touched it. Yeah, I don't know, but you're cleared by him.

[Lauren]

Would a plastic surgeon's office be enough, or does it need to be a dermatologist?

[Melissa Coleman]

So the thing with plastics, I. I'm a plastic surgeon. I'm a plastic surgery fan. And same. I. I think that, you know, their primary focus is to cut and sew. Like, that's what they do. And so their primary focus. And I'm sure there are different residency programs and different fellowships and things like that, but their primary focus is not skin. However, you know, I would trust, you know, my plastic surgeon's done a CO2 on me.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I did great.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

I. I'll argue Patrick has the better CO2, because that's his, you know, that's his bread and butters. Are those lasers? Plastics, it's more an adjunct to an overall procedure. But, yeah, I mean, I would trust a plastic surgeon's office and a derm's office over a med spot owned by an ER doc. Yeah. Where the state law is. They have to be somewhere in the building. And that building could be 50 stories.

[Lauren]

Wow. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

They just have to be under the same roof. And then there are, you know, like, in the state of Texas, I can inject you legally.

[Lauren]

I mean, the stuff I see, I definitely know people who inject themselves and buy Botox online and.

[Melissa Coleman]

Do you really?

[Lauren]

Yeah, there's, like, a whole community I've seen.

[Melissa Coleman]

There's one like a diy.

[Lauren]

Yeah. They, like. They do all this stuff to them.

[Melissa Coleman]

Somebody sent me that. There was, like, an Instagram page. It was like a diy.

[Lauren]

It's called, like, natural Chaos. Have you seen this?

[Melissa Coleman]

Maybe it was that. Yeah, I was just like, oh. So I came at you with a needle. You should call the cops.

[Lauren]

It's very scary, especially knowing, like. Yeah. The things that can go wrong. It's. It's insane.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. I Mean, state regulations are nuts. And like Texas and California are pretty bad. Yeah. In terms of who's allowed to inject.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

High school graduate can inject you as long as there's somebody with a medical license around. Yeah. And you know, I was joking. I'm like, I could inject, I could move to Texas, go work in a med spa that is owned by a psychiatrist. It just has to be an MD who's never had a day's worth of, you know, skin derm training in their life, but they can legally open. Yeah. Hire whomever they want. And I was like. And people would probably trust me.

[Lauren]

It's insane.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, they would be like, oh, she knows. Like she Right. You can put on a white coat. I think Oregon is now the only thing state out there that requires you to put your qualifications on the white coat.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

You can put on a white coat and I can inject you. Yeah. And like if I up your face.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I'm under the malpractice of the psychiatrist that owns the med spa.

[Lauren]

Well. And if, you know, if something bad happens, it's like it doesn't even matter if you have recourse because the bad thing has already happened.

[Melissa Coleman]

You're just figured, yeah, at that point.

[Lauren]

You know you want to. We're going to prevent and we're going to go to dermatologist's office, plastic surgeon's office offices and get these things done before we move on to surgery. I just really would love if you could address. Are there any devices we need, like microcurrent devices? The countdown is on. Holiday shopping season is officially here. Uncommon Goods takes the stress out of gifting with thousands of unique, high quality finds you won't see anywhere else. So instead of panic buying another candle, I found the create your own real viewer. The grown up version of that childhood gadget we were all obsessed with. You upload your photos, they turn it into a custom reel and suddenly you're flipping through memories like it's in 1998. I'm getting it from my dad because nothing will make him happier than clicking through our family moments and getting misty eyed in 3D. Uncommon Goods has something for everyone from foodies and book lovers to gardeners and teens. When you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Just don't wait. Because a lot of their items are small batch and sell out fast. And with every purchase you make at Uncommon Goods, they give a dollar back to a non profit partner of your choice. So don't wait. Cross those names off Your list before the rush to get 15 off your next gift, go to uncommon goods.com pop that's uncommongoods.com pop for 15 off Uncommon Goods. We're all out of the ordinary. Before we move on to surgery. I just really would love if you could address. Are there any devices we need, like microcurrent devices?

[Melissa Coleman]

No, they're all okay. They don't do anything.

[Lauren]

Thank you for saying that because honestly, just I'm too lazy to do any of that stuff. So. I'm so happy to hear this.

[Melissa Coleman]

Huge relief as the LED light mask.

[Lauren]

LED mask is coming next.

[Melissa Coleman]

Get mad at me for saying this. So my father in law was once quoted in the New York Times as saying just you can, this is a while back but like just take your remote control and just like just aim it at your face. They're just so. A lot of them are FDA cleared. Usually that means for safety. Yeah. Not efficacy. So it's not going to melt your face off.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But it's not going to deliver results either. They're just simply. And look, I wish the technology was there, right. Patrick wishes like, he's like, I would love to send a patient home with a laser and be like, great, you do that. I'll do this over here. It opens up my slots to help people, you know, to do other procedures on people. I'm gonna send you home with your at home laser. You take care of your sun damage. He's like, I'd love it if they worked. I always say this, ask, ask this if it worked. A why does it ever work? I've never seen a before and after picture ever of somebody who said I used this and it worked. Usually the before and afters come from when somebody decides to buy an at home device. They also decide they're going to take better care of their skin in general.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

So they fold in sunscreen, they fold in some sort of retinoid. They fold in, you know, better care of their skin. But the laser seems like the real deal. And so when their skin improves, they're like, I had to been the laser. It couldn't have been that. I'm just taking better care of my skin in general. So there's that. And then if an led, if it worked, where's the one at your derm's.

[Lauren]

Office that they want to do for you?

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, where's the stronger version? Right, so we can buy an over the counter retinol, right? Oil of Olay makes them, Medicaid makes them. But you can get a prescription grade Right. That works a lot better. LED lasers were introduced in the derm world a while back. They were abject failures.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

So where, where's the derm version of this? Where's the plastics version of this? Like where you're like, oh, I can have the at home one. Like, you could have an at home microneedling pen and destroy your face. Or you can. Then there's the, the ones that are cleared for dermatology offices. Right. Or medical offices. So where's the, where's the, the bigger badder led? They're not there. Like, you cannot call Ellen Gendler in, you know, a couple of blocks from here and schedule an LED laser because they don't, they don't exist. Yeah. So. And it makes a lot of people angry. And then they companies are like, but we put all this money into R D and we put all this money into creating these devices. And then you have influencers that are going to sell them and they do, you know, and I'm going to get disliked for this. But I will often post what the commission rate is for. So I donate all of my shop, my commissions to charity.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

That's amazing. I donate all the breast cancer research I always have. I don't pocket any of it.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I feel a little bit more free to be like, to be candid about, hey, those led masks are 400. They're making 40%. Right. So for every click or for every buy, it's $160. And I get it, it's big money. And that's what some of these people do for a living. Yeah. And I respect that. But let's be honest about what they do, what the limitation is. Let's be honest about it, you know, like, hey, guys, you know, I use this. There is no, you know, there's no bigger, badder version of this. This is like that home hair removal devices.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It's so funny. I, oh my gosh, can't even go into how many devices I have that I just, you know, collect dust because I just can't. I have them all too.

[Melissa Coleman]

They're all sent to me with like the hopes that I'll promote them.

[Lauren]

Never.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, like never. Never, never. And again, I wish more than anything that hair removal ones worked. I hate going in. Yeah. To have my bikini line. Yeah. I hate it. Like, it's painful. I wish the at home devices work. They just, they don't work.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And, but again, it kind of boils down to that. People want to feel like, yeah, the.

[Lauren]

Placebo effect is so powerful. And I think, I think people love like the selfie with it and they love feeling like it's also performative. It all is performative, but I think it's performative to the self as well. Like it makes them feel like they're making, they're really making progress and they're like skincare girlies and they're. Yeah, it's working.

[Melissa Coleman]

I'll say to you again, you know, are they going to hurt you? I don't know. Alan Gentler and I were talking about it last night and she's like, I don't know that they don't. I don't know that they don't make melasma worse or that they wouldn't.

[Lauren]

You know, I had to discontinue mine before I, you know, senior page. I was using an LED mask and I did feel like it was making my pigment worse.

[Melissa Coleman]

There's some ophthalmologists out there that'll argue it harms your vision. Yeah, Masks.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't have any proof on that. I don't know that's the case. But I do know that if you're using it, it doesn't, you don't have molasses. Not making it worse. Your eyesight's fine, whatever. And just putting that on for 15 minutes reminds you in general to just take better care of your skin.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like I put on my LED mask, I turn it on. The blue setting today for whatever. Yeah. Blue is for acne, red is for whatever. I turn it on, I take it off, I put on retin a because it's part of my process. Do it right. I don't care.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like it's not going to do anything. But if it's part of your process to get there and you feel like.

[Lauren]

It'S doing something, I mean, all of this is for ourselves. Right. So you, if, if we feel better and we feel like it's helping.

[Melissa Coleman]

Sure.

[Lauren]

Then go for it.

[Melissa Coleman]

If it's part of your, like, I'll say that all day long. Like the little, the new face thing.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

The microcurrent device.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, okay, but, but if you use that every single morning and if. And it reminds you it sits next to your sunscreen and you're like, I new face while I drink my coffee and then I go into the bathroom and I put on sunscreen. Great. Use it every day. Yeah, use it five times a day. It reminds you to take better care of your skin. I think my issue with the at home devices is people use them in lieu of.

[Lauren]

Right, interesting. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

So they don't use retin a because they use an LED face mask. They don't use, they use the new face device, you know, or the, they'll pop a helio care supplement or sunscreen supplement and they'll skip the, the sunscreen during the day. So when people start using them in lieu of things that actually work, I get a little bit indignant about it.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I'm like, oh, use them. Fine. But be sure to follow up with what science can prove works. Right. And to one more note, because you're going to get a firestorm of LED pro LED mask people. NASA. The NASA thing always comes up like, well, NASA says, NASA says, NASA says it works. Yeah, NASA. There is some proof that LED helps with wound healing. In those cases, something called a Soralin, which is P S O R L E N O R A L E N is taken orally to sensitize the skin to LED light.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's a much stronger light than what you can use at home.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And in terms of wound healing, there has been some things that show it's promising. NASA says. But, but that's where that comes from.

[Lauren]

But we're talking about a device that's much stronger.

[Melissa Coleman]

Much stronger. You have to take.

[Lauren]

And you're taking something that no one's taking. Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

So completely irrelevant.

[Lauren]

Right, but, but no one knows that full context.

[Melissa Coleman]

But when I talk about it, I am invariably sent, well, NASA said yeah, great. And they're probably right. But, but are you a. Do you have that laser?

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Do you have a prescription for Soralin? Celery does not count.

[Lauren]

Do you have wounds that need to heal?

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. So there's never been any that I've seen any compelling research that shows that it helps in any way with anti aging.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And that's the name of the game for almost everyone.

[Lauren]

I mean the shots are fired here. But you know what, I appreciate it because any shots that I think result in people spending less money, wasting less time and just being able to have an efficacious routine and a science based routine and like do things that improve, that's what we need. I think we just have, we all have too much going on and are too busy. We're bombarded with all the new serums, lotions and potions, devices, masks, all the things. Yeah, there's always, there's always something new. So I, I just appreciate this so much.

[Melissa Coleman]

Do you think. Let me. Can I ask you a question just as I guess somebody who doesn't live in that world 24 7. Because I feel like I do. I do feel like the tides are turning. I used to see.

[Lauren]

See.

[Melissa Coleman]

Injectors and doctors out there, and I still. There's still a bunch of them that. Yeah, you know, that I roll my eyes at, but it used to be all of them. And I felt like I was sort of this lone voice, like, screaming into the wind of like, guys, come on. Like, think about this.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

And now I'm starting to see more and more influencers come out. And they're honest now, like, they're a little bit more forthcoming. I'm starting to see there's some injectors out there that have big accounts that are. They're lovely. They used to. Man, they would sell some stuff. And now I'm watching. There's some backing, there's some pairing back, I think so.

[Lauren]

Well, the thing I'll say is, like, my mom uses the LED mask every day. I think she uses it for like 30 minutes to an hour. Like, she, like, loves it and she swears by it. I know my sister is an influencer and I know she's promoted an LED mask. And I. And I know she's religious about it and would, like, Would never promote something that she didn't believe in.

[Melissa Coleman]

Sure.

[Lauren]

So with that said, what I think I have seen is I think that LED maps were just way bigger, like two years ago. Like, it was just kind of everywhere. And I think that's when they were actually becoming popular. But I. I think we've definitely hit peak led.

[Melissa Coleman]

I would agree. Yeah, I'm glad for that. Then, you know, we'll move on to something else. You know, there's always like the right of the day. Like last year it was stem cells or exosomes. Exosomes.

[Lauren]

Are exosomes useful? No, we don't need them.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, not in the United States. They're not legal.

[Lauren]

Okay. Okay, so topical exosomes are bs.

[Melissa Coleman]

I talked to one dermatologist who was like, I think it cut down on redness from my microneedling by a day. And, you know, is it the exosome in there or is it the hydrating serum that it's, you know. Yeah, that. Is it a hydrating serum with exosomes in it? So was that the non human exosomes that aren't legal to have in the United States? Like, what are we. What are we talking about?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, it's not legal.

[Lauren]

So then what if it's not legal? What are people.

[Melissa Coleman]

What are people getting plant based okay. Like, they're not. You know, I forgot what the plated thing was like. Plated is from platelets, or they're claiming it's from platelets. And. And maybe they are, but, like, it's not legal in the U.S. interesting. So the skincare companies that are promoting them, you know, it's sort of dubious claims, I think, at this point. And I've never. And again, I've never seen anybody. I have, you know, tens of thousands of women. Not one. Not one has. And they send me everything.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Not one has ever said, here's half of my face. Let's drive.

[Lauren]

Right. Let's do half.

[Melissa Coleman]

Let's. Let's CO2 your entire face on half of it. I'll actually. I'll tell a great story so you can get exosomes. There was a friend of mine who burned his face and arms. His gas grill, like, blew up. Oh, gosh. He's horrible. Yeah, he's totally fine. He's good and totally healed.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And he freaked out. He's a doctor and really interesting guy. And decided with Patrick when he was burned, I mean, down to the fat.

[Lauren]

Oh, gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

In his arms. Let's order these exosomes from this company in Colorado, and we'll make a pace. And we'll treat one half of my body. Yeah. With it. And the other half, I think, with like, a silicone scar cream or something. Feel exactly the same.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

And this was, like, thousands of dollars worth of, like, exosomes. And this was, you know, probably 100 bucks worth of cream. And it healed exactly the same. Same.

[Lauren]

Okay, well, that.

[Melissa Coleman]

And he used his face. It was wild. As a science experiment, like a burned face.

[Lauren]

We thank him for his service and for the money we all just saved.

[Melissa Coleman]

But there will be something.

[Lauren]

Oh, they will be something one day. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

The tech. I mean, like, stem cells in order.

[Lauren]

That was my next question. Like, I've seen someone saying that they're topical stem cells that you can get.

[Melissa Coleman]

I think there's some in Europe. There's probably some in Mexico. There's some. I know a surgeon, a spine surgeon who does surgeries outside of the United States, and they use real human stem cells with a lot of luck in regenerating, you know, nerve issues and spine issues and. Yeah. It's not legal in the United States.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so you have no idea what you're getting.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And this is not regulated. This is black market.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's black market, and it's regulated by the administration or whatever. But, I mean, it's been going on for a long time now. So I'm not blaming current. But the stem cells, it all comes from like fetal stem cells and.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

The abortion debate. And then you've got all, you know, it just becomes this mess. Yeah. And other countries don't feel the same way about that in terms of using like fetus stem cells. But in order for a stem cell to become a skin cell, it has to be an activated stem cell.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

It is illegal to activate stem cells in the United States with the exception of, I think a bone marrow transplant. I think there's a cardiology procedure that it's legally allowed to do it. So all the stem cells in the world.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, it's like drinking collagen to repair your skin. Like, how do you know the. How does the collagen know to go from your stomach to your crow's feet to fix them? So it has to be an activated stem cell in order for it to become a skin cell in order for it to repair skin issues. And it's illegal to do, but people will put it on packaging. And then my question is always, you know, like, how do you keep that stable on a shelf at Walmart? I think, how is that stem cell? Right, right. In a plastic bottle at Sephora.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and you're going to put it on your face and it's going to. And it's gonna fix you.

[Lauren]

Next to makeup by Mario. Okay, the final thing I would love for you, you've been so generous with your time, first of all, so thank you. This is so nice of you. It's so comprehensive. I've really indulged myself in all these questions, so thank you. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. I am dying for you to talk a little bit on surgery.

[Melissa Coleman]

Sure.

[Lauren]

Because you know, I think that there's a lot of attention right now to $150,000 facelifts starting 150. And you know, there's, there's a lot of hype around deep plane for people who are interested in this stuff. It can kind of feel just like really depressing because you think okay, well, I need to see save $150,000, $200,000 maybe someday. By the time I'm ready for that. I also need to send my kids to college. I also need to save for retirement. I also have a life to pay for safari. Right, Exactly. So I think it can feel super depressing to see those numbers on Instagram. And they get a lot of hype and they drive a lot of beauty news cycle, I would call it.

[Melissa Coleman]

Sure.

[Lauren]

Anyway, I saw on your page you were saying that your friend is getting a deep plane facelift.

[Melissa Coleman]

You.

[Lauren]

You've shared that you are getting one in January, and then your friend is going as well. Deep plane. Like all the things.

[Melissa Coleman]

She has a deep plane. My oldest friend, she's a deep plane face and necklace scheduled. A brow lift.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And an upper and lower bluff and a CO2 laser.

[Lauren]

And you said this was how much?

[Melissa Coleman]

30 grand.

[Lauren]

Okay. How is this possible?

[Melissa Coleman]

In the United states would be 150 grand.

[Lauren]

Okay. And so I think this is what.

[Melissa Coleman]

Or why not obviously, 90 grand.

[Lauren]

Obviously, you're a person who takes immaculate care of yourself.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I can afford the 250.

[Lauren]

Right. Like, if there was a. If there was a difference, you would get it. Yeah. And you're not getting it. You're getting a facelift that's costing sub 30.

[Melissa Coleman]

Mine would be. And I pay for surgeries. Yeah. So, like, I'm not, you know, I paid full board for tummy tucks and breast lifts. And, you know, so because I had a bra lift a couple of years ago, because I've already had an upper bluff, I don't. I'm, you know, subtract those two things from my cost. So mine would come in at like 22 or 23 or something like that.

[Lauren]

I mean, this is. And he just raised his prices shockingly more affordable. And you're getting a deep plane.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. Deep plane face and neck. And then I'll probably. I'll probably do a CO2 face and neck.

[Lauren]

I mean, this. This is like a world's difference. And again, like, you could afford to do the celebrity one again. And so. But you're not doing that.

[Melissa Coleman]

No.

[Lauren]

How have you psychologically been able to, like. Because I think that so many people will fall into the trap of, like, it's my face, like, and even, like, like, basically, like, if, like, if it costs more, it's better.

[Melissa Coleman]

Well, I mean, so there's that argument, right? Yeah. And I probably fall guilty of that argument in fashion for sure. Right.

[Lauren]

So, like, prices, the biggest indicator of quality to the Consumer in the US that was one of the key things I learned when I worked at a fashion brand.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I'll argue all day long that my jeans are better because, you know, they're nilly loton and she just makes a better gene. But there's a price tag applied to that. The difference is with doctors. And I'll take Dr. Jacob as an example because he's excellent and people fly in from all over the country to see him. If he lives in New Orleans, it happens to be. So there's a couple of things that we'll talk doctors in New York or la, and none in particular, but most of them don't own the building.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

So they have these astronomical rents. Right. So, you know, 20, 30, 40, $50,000 rents or higher, especially the bigger the facility, if there's a surgery center attached to it. I mean, you have these massive overhead rents and then you have these big staffs. So Dr. Jacob owns, like, Patrick owns the building his practice is in. Dr. Jacob owns the building his practice is in. So you're immediately.

[Lauren]

The overhead is a lot lower.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's a lot lower. You still have staffing, you know, nursing care, 24 hour, you know, all of that. And he has a couple of surgeons there. But, you know, difference of fashion designers is they're not required to do a certain amount of schooling. Right. In order to become a fashion designer, in order to become a plastic surgeon. It is an arduous, very long, you know, you have medical school, you have residency. Most. A lot of them do, you know, general surgery residencies. And then they'll go back and do plastics or they'll do fellowships. You know, Christian, you know, his ENT facial is. ENT facial plastics. So he did an ENT residency. That's Dr. Jacob. Yeah. Okay. So he did, you know, an entire board certified there. And then they go on to do, you know, facial plastics fellowships. And I'm probably getting some of that wrong. But there's. There's a very long path to get to where they're at. They all take it. Right? They all take it.

[Lauren]

Right. Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

So we can look at, you know, the hot doctor of, you know, Miami right now. They also had to complete medical school, residency, fellowships, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, in order to get where they are. Fashion designers can have not a day of training and create something that's.

[Lauren]

Yeah, it's such a good way to put it. It's like there's actually a very strong hit.

[Melissa Coleman]

Certain benchmarks.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, Durham is one of the hardest Residencies to get.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, the easier ones are, you know, ob and family medicine, I think and stuff like that. But your hardest ones are, you know, plastics, ophthalmology, radiology, derm. I'm going to miss some. Neurology, I'm sure, is a tough one. And so you're already at the top of the top. Right, right. For med school, sort of where you're at in order to get to these places to begin with. And so then beyond that, the education is. Patrick did a year in surgery first before he did derm. And so they're all sort of on a level playing field in terms of the education that they had to. Now some go on to do extra fellowships and things like that. And then it comes down to a lot to skill level where you live. You know, one of the biggest indicators of price is zip code.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

So if Dr. Jacob lived here, he'd be a lot more expensive. But no one's paying $150,000 for a facelift in New Orleans. Yeah, but everybody sees them. And people, you know, well, you know, the very wealthy elite of New Orleans don't travel. Most of them don't travel to New York. They don't have to.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You have somebody that's, you know, two lane undergrad, two lane med residency fellowship. Right. Why wouldn't you go to him? Right. You know, and there's a lot of really well trained doctors, but they're everywhere.

[Lauren]

Right. So it's really, it just comes down to finding a, well, a really good, well trained doctor in an area that's not a super high cost of living area.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. I mean New Orleans is an interesting place for Durham and plastics. It's one of the, for Durham. For a long time it was the top five market in the country.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

It was New York, Louisiana, Miami, Dallas, New Orleans. I think now Baton Rouge has taken the fifth place so that quarter. The reason why is we have a couple of medical schools down there. Yeah, they're great. They both have residency programs in Durham and Plastics and things like that. And so. And then we catch a lot of talent A because the schools are two lanes, you know. Fantastic. It's cheaper to live in New Orleans so people stay. Yeah. So you have, you know, doctors from all over that come and they don't leave. So we have this unbelievable pool of talent down there, you know, and we're lucky for it. There's tougher cities. You know, people will ask me every once in a while like if I want to bluff. I live in Atlanta and I'm Like Atlanta to me is.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Not always the easiest city or there's cities that are easier than others that are sort of better known for plastics than others. But the fact of the matter is there's a good plastic surgeon. I would say this with a fair amount of confidence. There's a good plastic surgeon in every major city. You can get a great tummy tuck or a breast lift or a facelift or whatever. I don't know that you can get a great nose in every city.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I do think that's really specialized at times. Yeah. I put a lot of people are. I don't put. But a lot of people I know got on planes for noses. Yeah. They go to Dallas, the guy in Dallas that people really like. And there's definitely people up here. But I asked Dr. Jacob, I was like, you know, are we going to charge $100,000? And he said I would never do it.

[Lauren]

Oh really?

[Melissa Coleman]

And his reasoning was really interesting. I don't want to get him in trouble. But his reasoning was really interesting. He said, you start charging, you get a couple high profile. Patience elevates your profile, you elevate your prices to meet the now elevated profile. Right. And he said, so you start charging 100, 200.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Stuff like that. I've seen some quotes, I saw a quote, somebody sent me their quote for $315,000 from a doctor in Beverly Hills. And it was the wildest quote I've ever seen. Like custom tear trough implants, custom nasal labial fold implants. Oh my gosh, endotine ribbons. Like it was just all the stuff. So he said, you get very accustomed to charging these huge amounts. And he said, I've done revisions. You name the major, the popular surgeon out there, he has done a revision.

[Lauren]

He's needed a revision on his work.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. The patients will come see him for a revision.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Because I mean that's the thing is all these doctors, they're no one's God, no one's perfect. They're gonna have things that, that mess up and like not. They're going to. Excuse me, like.

[Melissa Coleman]

No, no, they're going to.

[Lauren]

There's going to be a percentage of their results that are not as good as other results. And that is just. You are kind of rolling the dice. Everyone rolls the dice when they get a procedure. Right. I've had work done like you. You roll the dice and you hope it works out and you try to stack the, the cards in your favor. There are certain things you can do, but no surgeon can guarantee that it's all going to come out perfect. And like every surgeon has revisions that are necessary from their work.

[Melissa Coleman]

So, you know, the stuff that we talk about, and I've interviewed him for my page and he said, no doctor ever. They always put the most dramatic before on their page. And then so the after is just mind blowing. Yeah. He's like, they don't tend to put just an average 50 year old.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, he's like, I want to see just the average 50 year old.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

What is somebody with a little bit of laxity, you know, that's not going to blow your mind with the results.

[Lauren]

It's not going to be a mother daughter transformation.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. Those are always huge, right? Yeah. Or grandmother to granddaughter, like they age back 40 years. But he said, you know, that's a no one. Like a lot of those guys don't put up average patients.

[Lauren]

Right, Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

They put it pretty extreme.

[Lauren]

Patience.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right. So for kind of the shock value and just people are really.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then secondly, no one ever puts up a problematic case.

[Lauren]

Right, Exactly.

[Melissa Coleman]

I had this ad, bad case today. Here's how I fixed it.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which is what I would want to know is like, well, if you fuck it up, right. What did you do?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

How do we fix it?

[Lauren]

And.

[Melissa Coleman]

And he said, so he's historically not on Instagram, doesn't care. He's like, I'm not doing it. Yeah, there's a couple of pictures, but they're old. And you know, he said, because it's just not a lot of what you see out there is just not reality in terms of what the average woman looks like.

[Lauren]

So Interesting.

[Melissa Coleman]

So the average woman looks like you. You know, you or me or, you know, walking down the street. They have a little bit of laxity. They're starting to get some early jowling. They have, you know, more prominent nasolabial folds. But, you know, their faces aren't hanging to here.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and you see like same with breast lifts and tummy tucks. A lot of times there's one, you know, doctor whose page that I love who puts up like pretty average patients. And it's like, you know when I tell people their best referral for a plastic surgeon is their dermatologist.

[Lauren]

Okay, wait, this is such useful information.

[Melissa Coleman]

So every derm has plastics that they work with? Yeah, because every patient, eventually I go to see. I'm a great example. Botox wasn't working well in my forehead anymore. It kept in order for my forehead to be smooth, my brow had to be dry.

[Lauren]

Stopped. Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

If I Wanted my brow elevated. I was going to have, like, a wi fi signal.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Over one eye. And Patrick said, you're done. Like, go see. Go see, Christian. Like, I can't help you anymore.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Every derm worth anything has for a brow lift. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

He's like, you're done. We are done with Botox. You need a brow lift. Get out of. You know. Yeah. Schedule temp. So every dermatologist has plastics that they work with, and they'll have a referral base of.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, I want a liquid nose job. No, go see. You know, a real nose job.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

They all have somebody.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

That they refer to for. For facelifts or tummy tucks or whatever, and they're going to refer you to in your town who they think the best is.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because they want you happy and they want you to come back.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And return to practice, like, satisfied with your results. So when people ask me, like, how do I find a good surgeon? I'm like, ask your derm.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, I mean, fighting flight on C. Mine, I guess he's great. But, like, at the same time, just ask your dermatologist.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Like, one thing I will say also is get a couple consults because I went to a very popular Upper east side plastic surgeon. Yeah, she's a plastic surgeon. She has a lot of injectables, though, as well. And she kind of, like, did this whole, like, facial diagnosis for me, and everything was wrong.

[Melissa Coleman]

And, of course we're gonna balance everything.

[Lauren]

Yeah, balance everything. I. Apparently, I had a recessed chin. I had, like, all these problems I had no idea about. Needed threads. And so I got Botox from her. It was so expensive, but I never went back to her. But anyway, that day, I was like, oh, you know, kind of asking about the Bella Hadid brow lift cat eye look box. I was just, you know, I was like, how. What could we do? Could we get that vibe? You know, could we get that look or whatever? And she was like, yeah, it'll be $30,000, and we can do a brow lift and a blepharoplasty, and we can basically book that in two weeks.

[Melissa Coleman]

My bra lift was 8.

[Lauren]

15 grand for each, was her quote. Ah, yeah. For New York.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't know. I don't. I. You know, I was 8, and for bluff was 65.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't know that that's right. What Everybody wants to pay, but totally. I've heard of worse.

[Lauren]

My point, though, is I, you know, I. I had another consult, and then I And I abandoned this idea because the. The surgeon said to me, he said, well, your brows are at a good position. And he said, you don't actually have much extra skin at all on your eyelids. And so he said, you're not ready yet for. For any of that. And he said, also, it's such a major surgery. And he's like, it's going to be millimeters of difference. It's going to last five to seven years, and you're going to go through all this for something people might probably won't even notice. And it was just such an ethical consultation versus, like, how can I squeeze every dollar from you? And so I do think, like, getting multiple opinions is really useful. You're going to see who is there to. Who's there in a mercenary way, and who's there really to help people and to do great work.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I think the best thing that you can be told is no. Like, the surgeon that tells you no. Right. Is your surgeon right.

[Lauren]

Exactly.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, and I tell this story a lot. I walked into Dr. Jacobs office at 39.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

I was turning 40, freaking out.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, oh, my God, I need a facelift. And it's always this on me that I hate. Okay? So there's, like, a crease, and it's. Whatever. I see it. And I walked into his office, and he walks in, and he has this sort of grand old Southern. It's in this old Southern mansion, okay? So this beautiful space. I'm sitting at this very long, like, dining table. That's his desk or whatever. And he looks at me. He's like, what are you doing here? Because I know him. And I was like, it's this. It's this. It's all this, you know, it's so bad. I'm turning 40 and I'm freaking out. And he said to me, okay, yeah, no, yeah, I see it. I totally. I know what you're talking. I can see it. It's awful, right? And I was like, it's terrible. I hate it. And he said, yeah, let's get you scheduled. Like, we'll do it. And I'm like, okay, okay. He's like, where would you like the incision in the scar? I'm like, well, I want to, you know, like, here, like, where? You know, I don't know. Where is it hidden?

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

And he's like, oh, well, that. We're not gonna do that. And I was like, why? He said, we don't have enough skin. He's like, but if you want the incision to be Right here. Let's get you scheduled.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

And I was like, no, I don't. Like, I want it back here. And he's like, you go home.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, like, you are not ready. There are 39 year olds out there that are ready for sure. Absolutely. It's not, it used to be faceless. No, faceless before 50. That was like the old adage. There are definitely 39 year olds out there, you know, who weight loss or genetics or whatever that are candidates. But he sent me home, and he sent me home every year.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

Okay. For six, seven years. Yeah. Like, he was like, like. And it's always very funny and nice.

[Lauren]

But he's like, it's got to be a little bit of a relief too.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, go home. And then this year it was like, let's. No, let's actually, like, let's actually do it now. Wow. And so I was like, okay, so. But the best thing you can be told is no. Yeah, for sure. You know, and I tell people all the time, from a Durham point of view or plastics point of view or anything, you can shop for a. Yes, you can. Someone will operate on you.

[Lauren]

Someone will do it for sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

Someone will take your money and cut your face open or cut your body open. They will do it.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

But the best thing you, you know, the, the doctors that tell you no are the doctors that you want to keep, you know, on file in your contacts as the ones to call in a year or two, you know, it's the doctor that's like, yeah, we'll figure it out.

[Lauren]

Right? Especially like the doctor who will do it. And potentially you're not a candidate yet. And so what kind of results are you going to get?

[Melissa Coleman]

Minimal, if any.

[Lauren]

And you're going to go through all this and pay all this money and I don't know, it's, it's, it's all so much. And my sister and I have this, like, kind of rule or basically, unless something bothers, Bothers us every day, we just don't think it's like, worth going under the knife to resolve.

[Melissa Coleman]

I think that's great. I mean, the other idea is that if it's something that comes and goes. Right?

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. So people, you know, have worse laxity some days than others. Oh, interesting.

[Lauren]

I didn't know it was something that could come and go.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, I think based on how dehydrated your skin is or how, you know, if you're sleep deprived or traveling or eating too much salty food or, you know, so there are days that, that I think you can look in the mirror and, you know, your dark circles look worse than other days or.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, this feels tighter on certain days than others. And I think kind of a good rule of thumb is if it's really consistent every day.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And it looks the same, like if your nasal labial folds are grooved. Yeah. Every day. Yeah. And it's not I slept on my face wrong or, you know, or I haven't had, you know, anything but alcohol for a month.

[Lauren]

But, like, if.

[Melissa Coleman]

If it's something that just shows up every day. Yeah. See someone for nasal labial surgery.

[Lauren]

It's facelift, basically. That's a brutal.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, I've seen them filled.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Can look weird. Gets weird.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, I mean, it gets. It can migrate. You move your mouth or one. Not you, but like, people move their mouths. Yes. It can get weird.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, it can, you know, migrate outwards then. Right. It's strange. You can't fill a fold. So I try to tell people.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, you can feel a temple, which is, you know, a dent, kind of an indent, an indentation from fat loss. As you get older, people get peanut head. Yeah, you can feel that. You can feel a cheek, but you can't fill a fold.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, so when people are like, how do I feel? Like, when they start, neither of us have it, but like the marionette lines, you know, here and here, and it's kind of grooved in the lip. Yeah. But you can't fill a fold.

[Lauren]

Okay, question. Lip lift ever something to. To do. The scar in the middle of the face. Face is so crazy.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't know two things on that people heal how they heal. Right. So they scar how they scar. There are things you can do to make scars better and increase your chances of healing. Well, silicone tapes, creams, gels, sunscreens, stuff like that. You're still going to scar how you scar. If you keloid, you keloid. There's often a lot you can do about that. Do you want to learn how you scar on the middle of your face?

[Lauren]

Right, right. Well, and you can scar differently. It's not like you. You can. You can have one scar, one part. I mean. Yeah. Like, you can have. You want to learn how your face.

[Melissa Coleman]

Scars on the middle of your face.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I don't know. I've seen some good lip lifts out there. I think my opinion. It depends a lot on the shape of your nose. I would not be a candidate. I'd be a terrible candidate. Because you can See all the way underneath my nose. When you look at me, I think people that have a more.

[Lauren]

You also have, like. No, I mean, you would never need it, though.

[Melissa Coleman]

Also, I'm really short right now. Yeah, but people get long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that used to be how Patrick would guess people's age. It's like the length of.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I think a lot of it, if you have not a more prominent nose, just the shape of your nose tends to go downward and covers that area. I think, you know, can be a better candidate. There's, you know, Bethany Frankel's out there.

[Lauren]

You think she's had one for sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

You can see the scar.

[Lauren]

Crazy. I mean, it looks pretty good then.

[Melissa Coleman]

She looks good. Yeah, I mean, it looks good, but you can definitely see the scar right there. You know, I can't swear that she's had one.

[Lauren]

Right. For sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

But it looks like she's had one because this got remarkably shorter.

[Lauren]

Oh, it did. Oh, I need to look.

[Melissa Coleman]

And it looks good. But I think it's one of those things that you have to be prepared to have makeup on if you scar poorly.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And you scar there poorly. And then the other question is, how does that scar age over time? Yeah. So gravity kicks in. Does that scar stretch? And so are you dealing with scar tissue and a scar that's starting. No.

[Lauren]

Several millimeters.

[Melissa Coleman]

Right?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

And we don't know because the lift. The lip lift is fairly new. So what does it look like in 20 years? Yeah.

[Lauren]

Well, and also, I just think that, I mean, I spend way too much time thinking about this stuff, but I think it's really something for someone who is, like, has a very super long. They're much older. To get it. To get Instagram face is just psychosis to me, you know, like, you can't.

[Melissa Coleman]

You can't get there. You know, Patrick has patients that bring their phones in with face app, face tune photos of themselves, like, do this. And they're like, I want to look like this. And he's like, well, then keep doing that. Like. Like, that's not. That's not realistic on any, you know, on any plane. And then he starts wondering in. In all honesty, and in a very caring way, like, are these people okay? Like, does this person have an understand. Understanding of the limitations of medicine?

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And the limitations of, you know, what does reality really look like if, you know, when you're looking at a filter and we all do it. Right. I mean, I'm no stranger to cleaning up, like, a zit or a shadow or Whatever. I'm not going to let somebody's bad angle or, you know, somebody's broken out ruin a photo that they would ordinarily love. So, you know, you kind of ding it out. But, you know, he'll come home some days, you know, disturbed. Yeah. Because he's like, I don't, I don't understand what's going on. Like, I mean, I do, but I thought that people filter their photos to put a better version of themselves out there because the iPhones are mean for sure. And they're sharp, they're overly sharp, they're mean, the angles are weird, the lens is strange. And you know, he was like, I thought, you know, people would filter them to sort of COVID you know, to sort of alter back or to make up for how shitty the iPhone does. Right. It's been very eye opening for him that people filter them and that's how they identify now.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

They think that image, they only recognize themselves as that image and they want that image to become reality. And you actually can't, you can't do it.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

You can't create skin that looks like that.

[Lauren]

Right. Well, and that's where it like gets so I think so much of an issue when we see the Kris Jenner after photo and it's like there's also an AI filter on this.

[Melissa Coleman]

I'm really, I'm big on Getty images.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like I love to go to Gettysburg, find the, find the original photo if I can click on it because they're not edited and like, let's put them side by side like. And look, she looks good.

[Lauren]

Right. For sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

She doesn't look like that.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I think that that's true of a lot of celebrities and I think that that's also when you start Talking about these $250,000 facelifts, you know, and you look at Kris Jenner who looks.

[Lauren]

Great.

[Melissa Coleman]

But you go get the $250,000 facelift and you pay her doctor and you don't look like that. Right.

[Lauren]

You don't look like an AI filter.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because she's not. So there. She doesn't look, I mean she's honesty. Great. You got a facelift. I appreciate the honesty, but be all the way honest.

[Lauren]

Right, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because people look at them and look at celebrities and go, you know, well they can afford. Oh, I can afford. They can afford. So why don't I look like they. Because they're not totally honest. It's not like, hey, prior to that facelift I had a brow lift and I had a Bleph. Also, I do a resurfacing laser once a fucking year.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Language. Once a year. And I have a chef and a trainer, and I stay out of the sun. And people. I pay people to follow me around carrying umbrellas. I also did that in order to get here. And then there's the filter.

[Lauren]

Right? And there's a filter on top of that.

[Melissa Coleman]

On top of.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

The $150,000 I did prior to my $250,000 facelift. On top of that, I've still applied a filter.

[Lauren]

I mean, this is just a very banal, obvious point, but I just think that the world of social media is so dangerous because we're all. We're all just like, interfacing with things that A, aren't. Aren't real, but B, are such, like a. A better version of us and then a worse version of us. Like, in the way that people will be so cruel to each other on social media and have fights over certain topics and things. Like, I just. I think the more we can stay in the real world and look at people who have real results in the real world and talk about issues in the real world, how we would actually talk to someone's face, the more sane we will be. But the more we're in this realm that's. Everything is so extreme and everywhere.

[Melissa Coleman]

Courage out there is.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Like, you would never.

[Melissa Coleman]

I was Emily Blunt's face.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Which I thought look great.

[Lauren]

I think she looks beautiful.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's fresh. Yeah, I think it's pretty fresh. And I don't know totally what she did. We're all guessing. I think she looks fantastic, but it looks like a facelift. And. Right.

[Lauren]

She's had a little cheer for sure.

[Melissa Coleman]

And to her cheeks. And I posted it and the amount of DMs that I got overwhelmingly were positive, were like, she looks great.

[Lauren]

Love her.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, there's a redhead too. Blah, blah, blah. Do you know who did it? Of course I don't. But the mean one were so mean. And I just started answering. I just had a copy paste answer where I just said, man, what happened to supporting women's journeys and choices, you know, in terms of what they've decided to do? And then the immediate backtracking, like, the backpedal was like, oh, I didn't mean it like that. So people are allowed to say this stuff. Nobody follows up. People follow up usually with an argument. Right. Like, well, that, you know, you're a jerk for saying that. And then, well, you're a jerk for questioning somebody. Like, why Would you. Why do you say that? Like, why would you say that in a world where, you know, you probably sit with your friends and say women need to be better at supporting other women and like, let's join these feminist causes and let's go support these female run charities. But man, put someone behind a keyboard. Yeah. Where it's more anonymous.

[Lauren]

One of my favorite accounts is called he's so Mid. And it's this girl and she just talks about. She just says, like men's reactions to, oh, do you see this? Yes. Hailey Bieber or whatever it is.

[Melissa Coleman]

And then zooms in on the picture of them.

[Lauren]

And then the comments are just vile. Like, you know, would never hit that down worse.

[Melissa Coleman]

Turned down better than that. Turned down better than that was one of my favorites. And then they zoom in on him and he looks like Shrek.

[Lauren]

It is truly a creature. It's an incel. Where we are. I actually didn't even refer to the person as a person. I said it. I mean, these are such trolls. And the digital world is a very scary world.

[Melissa Coleman]

So with my tummy tuck, I do subscribers on my page. I don't know about your page. I imagine it's worse than mine in this respect, but I can get hundreds of DMs a day. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hundreds and hundreds. And there's no way. The way that, you know, they come in randomly, they come in an order, and there are people that have followed me for years and they get lost in the shuffle. And so I said, you know, I'm going to do subscribers, like $2. Don't subscribe. It's fine. It doesn't matter to me. But if you want to have the conversation, you want your questions answered, that's the way I do it. Yeah. And they all go in one folder or one inbox, and I operate out of that inbox every single day. And when I had a tummy tuck, you know, surgery is invasive and I. I've recovered from CO2s for tens of thousands of people and a brush lift for tens of thousands of people and a bluff and a brow. The tummy tuck got weird for me because the before was really gnarly. Yeah. And I was just like, totally like the world every single day. So I did it only for subscribers.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I figured, you know, I think it's like $36 or whatever a year. I figured, I'm gonna save you $36 on an eye cream.

[Lauren]

Right, Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And so whatever. And it doesn't matter to me who subscribes or not but there are people out there that like, like to have that conversation every day. Yeah. They want to check in and. Hey, Mel, you know. Yeah. And after reading all of these negative comments about Emily Blunt, I was like, oh, I am definitely not sharing my progress.

[Lauren]

Or were you gonna share your every day the face of progress? And now you're not.

[Melissa Coleman]

I don't think so. I'm brutal.

[Lauren]

I don't think you should. And to be honest, I'll share it.

[Melissa Coleman]

For the select group that I did for my tummy tuck. Yeah. And it's funny, the mean comments. Not one, not one was from a subscriber. Not one was someone who's part of the conversation every day on that page. It was all from like accounts that I'm like, people are mean.

[Lauren]

People are really mean. And what I have found is that it's a little bit of like, I had one procedure I don't talk about because it just feels private. And I had another procedure, which is my boobs. And I did share that, like, it was always. People were so upset.

[Melissa Coleman]

Not.

[Lauren]

Not everyone. Most listeners are super generous. It's just the soup. The. The loud, onerous ones can be the ones that unfortunately are the most top of mind. But anyway, that are upset anyway. So I finally. I shared my boobs and then I got in trouble for flaunting plastic surgery. So it's like you're either not transitioning.

[Melissa Coleman]

Transparent or you can't win.

[Lauren]

You're bragging. And I don't know, I just think that, like, I think you're already sharing so much information.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, I'll do the broad strokes for everyone.

[Lauren]

The broad strokes.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, here's my before, guys.

[Lauren]

Yeah. That's amazing.

[Melissa Coleman]

Here's me a month later. Because I do think that there's value to educating men as well, but like educating women on expectations.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

A couple of reasons why. One, it helps them temper theirs. Yeah. In terms of what's possible by medicine. Yeah. Right. So I always say it's surgery. It's not a time machine. It's not a mountain. It's surgery. Right. So I think oftentimes sharing my stuff is. Helps educate women as to, like, what they can expect, what they can look for, what a normal recovery looks like, what a fucked up recovery looks like. I've had one before that wasn't great. Yeah. Because I was allergic to the glue that was used.

[Lauren]

Oh, wow.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. And it was a nightmare.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

It wasn't the surgeon's fault. We didn't know I was allergic to you. But all the, all the same I shared that. Yeah. But people have very definite opinions on what they think you should do with your face and body. And when you don't meet their expectations or their threshold for candidacy or their threshold for whatever, they get really mean. And I always say, you know, when that happens, I'm like, look, it's not, you're not required to follow this page.

[Lauren]

Yeah, log off. Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

See ya. Yeah, like, you know, but it does make even people like me second guess. Like, what am I willing to put out there into the world? Because people, you know, they can be brutal. I mean, you see what they say to celebs. They'll say the same to your mate, right?

[Lauren]

No, and I think one the of the line I really draw with the followers on the Instagram account is like, basically if you reply because you know, pop celebrity photos all the time, you reply with negative comment about a woman's appearance. Like, I just block you. Like, I just, I don't need to hear how you think her knees tell the full story. Or like, you know, like, I'm good on your toxic inner monologue. Like, I actually don't need your follow. Like, that's my favorite thing too is when they're like, I am unfollowing and it's like, like, this will never impact my life.

[Melissa Coleman]

Actually, I think that there's a certain amount of self importance that people give themselves as common comment online. You know, if they follow the page.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Therefore they are entitled to. Right. They're entitled to be cruel or they're entitled to, you know, give their opinion. And you are, but you're also entitled to the, to being blocked or being removed as a follower being restricted. So I'm, I'm a big restrictor. Yeah. I'll restrict people so they don't know that they've been restricted. But like, you're not going to put that out there in the world. And I feel like I've worked really hard on this page to try and create a community where if you go after another follower in the comments, right. I'm going to intervene and be the mom. Yeah. And I've done it. I'm like, hey, guys, we're not going to do this.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, take it offline, kids.

[Lauren]

Oh my God.

[Melissa Coleman]

You know, take it outside.

[Lauren]

Right?

[Melissa Coleman]

Whatever. But we're not doing this in the comment section of this, this, of this page.

[Lauren]

Have you ever got someone mad that you deleted a comment? Because I'll get like, they're deleting comments now and I'm like, the comment section is not the blockchain on our page. If you write something super toxic, we're gonna delete it.

[Melissa Coleman]

So I'll say this. I've been very lucky. I rarely get a bad comment there.

[Lauren]

I had one. Oh, we get them all day.

[Melissa Coleman]

I had one where I reviewed a sunscreen that I loved, and it was scented, and this woman just.

[Lauren]

Just hated it.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. And I was like, okay, I get it.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But she commented her opinion. Yeah. Every time somebody was like, oh, my God, it's my favorite. She would comment. It's the worst.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

It smells like garbage.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

And I finally sent her a dm. I restricted her. I didn't even remove her as a follower. I didn't block her. I restricted her. And I sent her a DM that said, hey, I'm gonna have to restrict you. You are entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to dislike that sunscreen one time.

[Lauren]

Right, Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

But following up on every person where they're like, oh, my gosh, they gave me the prettiest glow. And she's like, it'll ruin you. Just like. And, like, the all caps. And like, I was just like, I know you can't infer tone from text, but, like, you could. And she was so offended that I restricted her behavior on a page that is mine.

[Lauren]

Right, Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

I was like, I'm sorry. And I have made a comment a couple times. Well, I look forward to you hosting your own page where you talk about how much you hate the sunscreen. I can't wait. I'll be your first follow. Why don't you go host I hate blah, blah, blah dot com.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

And go hate on it. But there are people that get so angry for whatever reason, and they just. They're just sort of unrelenting, but for the most part, she's the only one I can think of that I've really had to like.

[Lauren]

Like.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. For the most part. I don't know if it's the tone and tenor of the page. I don't know if I come across as, like, don't cross me. I don't behave. I don't know if it's my personality.

[Lauren]

I think a lot of it happened. I mean, a lot. A lot of the craziness happened when we had a viral moment, and then you just kind of wake up. You're pushed out to that many people. You just have, like, once. Yeah. Once we hit a certain amount, it was just. There's just always gonna be that.01% that are.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, the most comments I get the most negative comments I get, they're always in dms is if I post about a celebrity.

[Lauren]

Oh, really?

[Melissa Coleman]

If I post about a celebrity, good or bad, like, if I post, you know, something like a, you know.

[Lauren]

Not.

[Melissa Coleman]

My favorite look or not my favorite whatever, or if I post something positive. Yeah, it's always the. It's almost always the positive ones that get the most negative feedback.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Because people want to be contrary to you no matter what it is. And so the Emily Blunt thing, she looks like a freak. She looks like a. And I said to. I tried to address a few of them and I said, here's me trying to educate.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Facelifts, don't judge them for a year. Right. That's the rule. You're swollen. People swell at different rates. They heal at different rates. The swelling goes down at different rates. She still has to go to work. So I remember when Adriana Lima. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren]

She had the fat transfer. People were really not happy.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, they were so. And I was like, guys, it's fat transfer. It takes a minute.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

She still has to go to work.

[Lauren]

Right, Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You wouldn't do that. But she's still showing her face in public and saying, here I am, knowing that you guys are going to tear her apart. Stay with Emily Blunt. Like, she still has to go to the film festival or Toronto, wherever she was. Like, they have to go to work. They have a job to do. You expect them to entertain you.

[Lauren]

Right? Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

You expect them. You want to go see the Devil Wears product, too? She's got to do the press tour for. Shut up.

[Lauren]

Yeah, right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, stop being mean to her. Like, I don't think people consider that when it comes to, like, high profile people and facelifts are worked in, it takes a long time to heal from it.

[Lauren]

I think there's this also this. I don't know if misnomer is the right word, but there's this thing where people think that your work should return you to 25. And it's like, no, it's going to make you look like. I think it's going to make people generally look better for their age. And it's like, it's not something where it's going to. You literally turn back time. But people, they, like, criticize a look that's, like, done. Like, Emily Blunt to me, looks done, done, but beautifully. And like, that's a great look to me. Like, we're not. We can't all be 25 forever. So would I rather eventually look beautifully done rather than like letting nature takes it. Take its course. Yeah, I kind of would.

[Melissa Coleman]

I would much. I'm done. This is all done on me like this. And by the way, this didn't look this good at 25.

[Lauren]

Like, these. Those are kind of the options we have. And I don't actually. Don't think it's a bad one. I think, like, these people look beautiful.

[Melissa Coleman]

That's a whole conversation. I mean, the people are like the undetectable facelift. Oh, none of it is undetectable.

[Lauren]

Right, Exactly.

[Melissa Coleman]

You. I detect they all had work done. It's really good work.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

But let's be honest. Lindsay Lohan.

[Lauren]

We all detected it immediately.

[Melissa Coleman]

Nothing like Lindsay Lohan.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

She's beautiful, whoever she is, but that doesn't look like Lindsay Lohan to me. You know, it's. It's Lindsay Lohan post completely.

[Lauren]

And looks amazing. Oh, she looks.

[Melissa Coleman]

She looks amazing.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

There. There was no. There's no surgery that can put her.

[Lauren]

And she doesn't look 25. She looks like a beautiful. Looks 40. She looks beautiful at her age, which is like, I. I think a great thing to feel and to be. And anyway, it just that I. It's.

[Melissa Coleman]

It's a bizarre. The expectation. And again, you try to temper expectations when you talk about procedures and things like that. You know, we can laser you and get your skin back 10 years.

[Lauren]

Yeah, we can do that.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't. You know, laxity in my face aside, I probably have the skin of someone 10 years younger from.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

From the perspective how clear it is or whatever. We can laser you back, but, like, once you start lifting and cutting and sewing. Yeah. You're gonna lick, lifted, cut, and sewn.

[Lauren]

Well, I mean, and also, like, Anne Hathaway, I think people would say she's like. Would be the poster child for the undetectable facelift.

[Melissa Coleman]

But its favorite is who? Jessica Chastain.

[Lauren]

Oh, did she get a good one? Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Coleman]

I have a split screen on my phone.

[Lauren]

I love her.

[Melissa Coleman]

So. Yeah. Like, if you look back a couple.

[Lauren]

Of years to today, but she's such a. I mean, such an amazing face to begin with.

[Melissa Coleman]

I mean, whoever did it don't know. Don't know what she did.

[Lauren]

So speculate.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah, her facelift is my favorite.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Hers. Charlize Theron had a good one. I think Angelina Jolie had a good one.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Melissa Coleman]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

I liked what you said when you. When you said on Instagram, you were like, I don't want this to be something people can't tell happened.

[Melissa Coleman]

I want them. I want them to say, oh, my God.

[Lauren]

My God, she looks so snatched.

[Melissa Coleman]

She looks amazing.

[Lauren]

Totally.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, I don't want people to wonder whether or not.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Like, are her jobs better? I don't know. I don't know. They look a little bit better. I. I want people to go like, dude, did you see her? And Dr. Jacob said this to me, which is interesting. He said, we all do this or you guys all do this? And he's like, men do it too, but, like. Like, it's women. We look in the mirror and we do this. And he said, it's not this movement. We're not doing this. We're not fixing this.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Melissa Coleman]

This is really fascinating to me. He said, think of it as, like, a mask that's slipping. He said, it's not this, it's this. Yeah, it's moving, like, the entire kind of unit back. So he's like, almost think of it like a medical mask, you know, that's starting to slide down your face. He said, we're putting. It's not this movement. It's this. Right? So he's like, if you're gonna do this in the mirror, you know you want to do this.

[Lauren]

Lift it all.

[Melissa Coleman]

Lift it all at the same time. Don't lift this, because it doesn't.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Melissa Coleman]

Change what this looks like. And that's not reality either.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I mean, I. I just think that everyone needs to follow Mrs. Durham. Honestly, you are. You're just such a breath of fresh air. You're. I. I am obsessed with your page. I love it because I know every time your story bubble pops up that it's, like, actually going to be useful information that I feel like it provides value. And you're. Even the way you write is, like, so funny and to the point. And so anyway, everyone go follow Mrs. Durham. Follow Melissa on Instagram. I will definitely keep people updated on how the Coleman. Let me know. I will let you know. Send you pics. Fingers crossed. And thank you so much for being here. I mean, thank you. I've probably been chatting for so long, so thank you. All right, you guys, we'll be back next week. Bye.

[Melissa Coleman]

Is this thing on? I'm Kaitlyn Bristowe, host of off the Vine Podcast, where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes, with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor Franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness.

[Lauren]

Na na na na na na na.

[Melissa Coleman]

Na na na na na na na. Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elise Meyers. Like, in this, like, business jacket. Like I would love some tacos. Heidi d' Amelio Big Brother's Taylor Hale I have to bring it up because it happened and we're going to get through it. What I do and so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable. Because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow rate and review off the Vine Podcast Wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[Lauren]

This November, action is free on Pluto tv.

[Melissa Coleman]

Go on the run with Jack Reacher Every suspect was a train killer Then buckle up for drive. World War Z Every human being we save Just one less fight and Charlie's Angels. Damn, I hate to fly. Launch into Sci Fi Adventure with the Fifth Element and laugh through the mayhem in the tropic thunder. What is going on here? All the thrills, all for free. Pluto TV Stream now.

[Lauren]

Pay never. Okay, so I've been waiting all year for this one item. An espresso maker with a milk frother that I can make my morning latte with in my pajamas, obviously. And Macy's Black Friday deals are finally here, so I'm eyeing the Ninja Luxe three in one, Espresso coffee and cold Brew machine. Okay, that just sends tingles through my body. All three things I'm obsessed with. They've got deals on Breville and KitchenAid, so if you've been romanticizing your home barista era like I have, this is your sign. Macy says Black Friday deals across the board. We're talking 20 to 40 off Lego sets in case you need to get any kids some gifts. Cashmere sweaters starting at 49.99 for the cozy queens and 50 off beauty faves from Tarte and Kiehl's and more for the Self Care Ritual Keeper. And when you shop, you can round up your purchase to support big brothers big sisters. 100% of donations go to creating one to one mentoring relationships for kids across the country. Macy's has already raised over 13 million for BBBs to support 280,000 mentoring moments so your holiday shopping can make a real difference. The Macy's Black Friday sale is happening between November 10th and November 29th. Shop now at Macy's.com or in store.

[Melissa Coleman]

Do you have what it takes to finish first? The App Store is packed with super fast super fun racing games for every driver. From battling with your favorite characters in Disney Speedstorm to piloting one of over 400 different cars on officially licensed tracks in real racing. 3. It's all right here. Blast down the track with no limit drag racing too. Race and collect the latest and greatest cars in CSR 2 realistic drag racing or even take over the International Car Racing arena with Asphalt Legends and take on the toughest drivers from around the world with NASCAR Manager. Just visit the App Store to find these racing games and more and get ready to start your engines. Leave boredom in the dust on the App Store.