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337: EPSTEIN FILES DEEP DIVE (PT 3) 🔎📂: INSIDE THE FILES — NAMES, EMAILS & RECEIPTS
01:01:17
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Parent
Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?
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Co-host 1
Really?
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Co-host 2
I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget.
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Parent
You can really have it delivered or pick it up.
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Child
Mommy's walking.
- [00:10]
Parent
I think kid is walking up the slide.
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Co-host 1
Really? Autotrader, Buy your car online. Really?
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Sponsor Voice 1
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- [00:46]
Sponsor Voice 2
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Co-host 2
In September 2013, following a meeting on Necker island, which I believe is the island he owns. Right. Disney owns. Which also isn't that like just back to Taylor Swift for a moment. Isn't Richard Branson like Necker Island? Isn't that. I feel like that's a part of the Harry Styles lore with her. Didn't she like go? She like blue dress on a boat?
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Co-host 1
Chandler, what a great point to bring up. That's perfect.
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Co-host 2
Booking.com offers a wide array of hotels and vacation rentals across the US So you can find exactly what you're booking for. There's something for everyone, even those who are impossible to please, find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.com booking. Yeah.
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Child
Book today on the site or in the app.
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Co-host 2
Well, well, well. Hello everybody. Thank you for being here.
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Co-host 1
Thank you. This is such an important episode. We are on part three of our Epstein Files series. So we want to just do a quick primer for everyone. If you have not listened to parts one and two, part one goes into kind of a bird's eye view of Jeffrey Epstein.
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Co-host 2
Yeah. Sort of a biography of his life.
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Co-host 1
Exactly. We go from how he rose to power and how he amassed so much wealth. We cover his first investigation and indictment, going to prison for the first time, and then everything leading up to his death in 2019.
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Co-host 2
Yeah. And then in part two, we get into the victim's accounts and It's a really heavy episode, but, you know, it's a really important episode. So if you have not listened to either of those, we definitely encourage you to go back and listen to those first so that you can, you know, understand everything in chronological order.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. And part two, it's a really important episode, and we wanted to make sure that everyone could listen. So there is a free trial right now on the podcast, and we do want those stories to be heard. So if you'd like to listen, you can just subscribe wherever you enjoy podcasts, you'll see our premium feed. Also, everyone just want to apologize. My voice is diminished today, but my spirits are high as ever.
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Co-host 2
Absolutely. So Today is part three, and we are actually going to read these 6 billion documents to you word for word, verbatim. No, we are, though.
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Co-host 1
The 6 billion. I like that.
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Co-host 2
Isn't it 6. Sorry, 6 million feels like 6 billion.
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Co-host 1
I was.
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Co-host 2
I was listening to somebody in preparation for this, and he said, trying to digest all this information feels like trying to swallow the ocean. Right. And it feels like 6 billion. But we are going to be diving into the people in the files, the names that are named, the, you know, receipts, screenshots, proof, timeline. What is it looking?
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Co-host 1
Everything.
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Co-host 2
Everything. Receipts, proof, timeline, screenshots, everything.
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Co-host 1
Exactly. And today we're really getting into things that are not conspiracies.
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Co-host 2
Yes.
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Co-host 1
So what's actually said in the files? Who is implicated? What did they say their affiliation was with Jeffrey Epstein? And then what did the files actually bring to bear?
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Co-host 2
And I guess I will say we're not getting into the things that are said in the files that are strange, that are, you know, the most outlandish and seemingly weird. Yeah, we're gonna save that.
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Co-host 1
I will say that is part four, potentially part five, if we have one. Part four is gonna definitely be all the craziness.
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Co-host 2
Yeah.
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Co-host 1
So it's gonna be talking about the food names and the jerky and the. All this stuff that I think is the most intriguing but also the darkest. And we just want to try to get that done in a single part or two max, and then be done with this series, because we're pop culture podcasts and we would like to get business as usual.
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Co-host 2
I think, too, you know, in regards to those really crazy things. Something I keep hearing and seeing is that, like, the really insane accusations can kind of almost distract and almost invalidate the truth of the things that are very clear in front of us. The. The, you know, the. The crimes that we see right in front of us. And. And so I think all that stuff, we're going to talk about it, but I think while we have. I don't know, we should just do this in order of what is the most factual.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, exactly. So that really brings us to part three today, where we are talking about the people that are implicated at high levels of government royalty, you know, business people, people who are in these files, what's actually said, what they've responded with, and also what criminal investigations have begun, what the actual impact has been of these files. Sadly, the. For some people, there's basically no repercussions. For others, there have been grave repercussions. So we're going to get into all of that.
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Co-host 2
So what are people exactly talking about when they say the Epstein files? And before we get into these specific receipts, I think we should try to answer that question. So when you hear, you know, the. The phrase the Epstein files, what people are talking about is they're referring to a massive collection of government records that connected Jeffrey Epstein. And these were materials gathered during all the investigations, court proceedings, civil lawsuits, and federal reviews that all, you know, spanned the decades. So it's just this huge data dump of everything from the last 20 years with this guy.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. And I also want to say, you know, a big legal disclaimer at the top of this episode. Inclusion in these files or communications does not imply criminal wrongdoing, and many individuals referenced have not been accused of any crime.
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Co-host 2
Yes, absolutely. Very important to note that. Another interesting thing here. So There are over 3 million pages of documents from multiple investigations that have been compiled and gradually released to the public. And the Department of Justice has even noted that there's actually up to 6 million pages that could qualify. And just to put that sheer volume into perspective, the files total about 6 million pages, or 6 billion if you're living in my brain. And that is roughly the equivalent. Six million is roughly the equivalent of reading the entire Harry Potter series more than 1400 times.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, it's a huge amount of material.
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Co-host 2
I think one thing that hit me in preparing for this is that it makes sense that new things are coming to light kind of all the time, because it's just such a massive effort to sift through it. And it's been a month, you know, since kind of the first big break. And, you know, we're even now getting new photos and things are, you know, taken offline and then put back online unredacted, redacted. So the document itself is kind of changing a little bit all the time.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, there's just so much Other new things continually emerging. So everyone, after Jeffrey Epstein's death in 2019, one question kept surfacing again and again. What else was in these files? Many people believed that Epstein's prosecution had left major gaps, especially when it came to powerful individuals who had moved in his orbit. There was a growing sense that the public had only seen a fraction of the story and that important records were still behind sealed court filings, heavier actions, and years of litigation. So last episode, we did leave off with Jeffrey Epstein's death and the suspicious circumstances of his death. So I think a great place to start is what happened after his death that led to these files actually seeing the light of day.
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Co-host 2
So over time, a phrase really started to capture the public mood. You know, this idea of sunlight being the best disinfectant. And the pressure never went away. Journalists asked about this, victims advocates were asking about this. I mean, the victims themselves, lawmakers. I mean, there were politicians running on this as their platform. They're going to, you know, bring. Bring people to justice. And so In November of 2025, Congress
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Co-host 1
passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act, a
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Co-host 2
law designed to force the release of millions of pages of government records connected to the Epstein case. So I didn't know that. I didn't know that this literally, like, the only reason why things came out in January was because something was passed in November.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. And, you know, it was. It was definitely a. A big promise from the current administration when Donald Trump was getting elected that he would release the Epstein files. I believe Pam Bondi said, they're on my desk. Yeah. So while the current administration didn't actually, of their own volition, just release these files, Congress forced it with the Epstein Files Transparency act, and it passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 427 to 1, which is about as close as you can get in Washington. And it passed through the Senate with a unanimous vote.
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Co-host 2
Vote, yeah. And something to note here is that the one person who voted against it was Representative Clay Higgins of Louisiana. And this is what he said on X about his vote. And I. I'm going to read his quote, and then I want to discuss it a little bit, because I do think. I do think he's not wrong to some degree. So he says, I have been a principled no on this bill from the beginning. What was wrong with the bill three months ago is still wrong today. It abandons 250 years of criminal justice procedure in America as written. This bill reveals and injures thousands of innocent people, witnesses, people who provided alibis, family members, etc if enacted in its current form, this type of broad reveal of criminal investigative files released to a rapid media will absolutely result in innocent people being hurt. Not by my vote. The Oversight Committee is conducting a thorough investigation that has already released well over 60,000 pages of documents from the Epstein case. That effort will continue in a manner that provides all due protections for innocent Americans. If the Senate amends the bill to properly address privacy of victims and other Americans who are named but not criminally implicated, then I will vote for that bill when it comes back to the House. So I just, I thought this was interesting because now, you know, we're here in this moment. It, you know, all the files came out, or, you know, everything that they released came out. And innocent people have been hurt in this.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, absolutely. And there have been names that should have been redacted, victims names that were not redacted, even though meticulously, it seems like the perpetrators names were redacted from the files.
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Co-host 2
Yeah. I'm like, less concerned about the people who were, like, I just happened to end up in the Epstein file because I was just mentioned, you know, like, not those types of civilians who are just like, were caught. Got caught in the crosshairs.
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Co-host 1
Right.
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Co-host 2
It's really like the victims here and the people who, you know, are. Are in real danger, I believe.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. And not on record having had any, you know, having been a victim of Jeffrey Epstein.
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Co-host 2
Yeah. I don't know if you know this, but, like, their. Some of their bank information was released. Like addresses more than just like first and last name.
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Co-host 1
Yeah.
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Co-host 2
Like deeply personal and, you know, vulnerable information. So for clarity, everybody, there's no evidence linking Clay Higgins to Epstein and any released records. There's no evidence that he's in the files or anything. So I, you know, we don't believe that this was coming from, you know, an ulterior motive.
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Co-host 1
Right. Absolutely. So what did the Epstein Files Transparency act actually do? In simple terms, it required the Department of Justice to begin releasing the large body of Epstein related records that had previously been withheld from the public. But before anyone imagined a mention at all moment, that's not exactly what happened.
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Co-host 2
So the DOJ released the material in stages. The first release was actually in December of 2025. And it was widely criticized because so many things were redacted. It was like there was no actual information in it at all. And then January 30, 2026, came the much larger release. So the Department of Justice published a massive second batch of documents, more than 3 million pages. Along with those pages were Digital materials investigators had collected over the years, roughly 2,000 video, 180,000 images cataloged as part of the investigative record.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, and I think there's an important distinction to make here, which is that not everything in the files is necessarily evidence of Epstein or anyone else's crime. So the archive includes anything investigators collected during their investigation, which really means a wide range of material. Surveillance footage, seized hard drives, financial records stored as images, scanned documents, photographs of properties and other digital evidence gathered during searches. In other words, with the doj, released what a curated narrative, it was the raw investigative archive. Also, they released essentially every tip, every anonymous tip that was submitted. And so that's why not everything in the files you can just take as being completely gospel truth.
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Co-host 2
Yeah, it's not like everything that's in these files is evidence that's been, you know, put through, put through a stress test to see if it's, it's real. So they included a caveat saying some of this, you know, material may include false or misleading submissions. And, you know, like in our research, I've come across those, you know, those, those tips that were just, that are just totally baseless.
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Co-host 1
Yeah.
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Co-host 2
You know, there's viral versions of Epstein's flight logs that turned out to be altered versions of real logs, fake email screenshots, fabricated client lists that were circulated widely online, but were never actually found in any court filing or government record. So I think that's a great setup for what we're about to get into. And the first thing I want to dive into from the files is not actually about any of the, you know, the network. It's really about the sweetheart deal that Jeffrey Epstein received because we did not have information on this until this. Right. Until, you know, this latest release. So we've talked about how, you know, he, Jeffrey Epstein really only served 13 months of an 18 month sentence. And, you know, it was just a slap on the wrist for the guy. The public had no idea that in the files was a 2007 draft memo laying out all the evidence gathered against Jeffrey Epstein. And this memo, it's really, really. Memo is the wrong word. This like, massive document was from the U.S. attorney's office in Miami. And it was basically saying that, like, we should come, we should go and get this guy for like a 60 count indictment.
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Co-host 1
A 60 count indictment.
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Co-host 2
Why I think it's important. It was all this evidence about why he's such a terrible guy and all these crimes he's committed to, you know, back in 2007, 2006, it was all there. They had already captured almost all of it.
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Child
Yeah.
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Co-host 1
So they knew exactly what he was doing and who he was, and for some reason, they decided to just give him a slap on the wrist. So the Florida prosecutor who drafted that memo sent it to top officials at the U.S. attorney's office in Miami, including then U.S. attorney Alexander Acosta, seeking approval for the proposed extensive charges against Epstein, as well as others whose identities are redacted, who may have facilitated his crimes.
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Co-host 2
Okay, so this memo says, quote, epstein is considered an extremely high flight risk and from information we have received, a continued danger to the community based on his continued enticement of underage girls. For these reasons, we would like to present a sealed indictment to the grand jury on May 15, 2007.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. And as we know now, the proposed indictment and memo was never pursued in court. It gathered dust in draft form as Alexander Acosta instead negotiated a controversial plea deal with Epstein even as his prosecutors and the FBI were still investigating, investigating the case and identifying new victims in other jurisdictions.
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Co-host 2
It was a 53 page indictment and an 82 page prosecution memo. So really not a memo. Extremely detailed. It outlined exactly how the massage appointments worked. You know that there were girls ranging in age from 14 to 23, how the payments worked, really like, you know, nailing the guy.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. And it's. It's just so interesting.
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Co-host 2
Poor choice of words.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. It just makes me sad because you really realize how many people knew exactly what was happening. And it wasn't like, oh, we have testimonies of seven different girls, so clearly there's a lot happening here. It's like, no, this is. There's a 53 page indictment. It's an 82 page memo. They know everything. Also, did you see the interview with an architect who was brought on to work on Little St. James?
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Co-host 2
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- [17:01]
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- [18:59]
Co-host 1
So this was, I believe it was around the same time as before the first prosecution. And he just said there was no, there was just no guessing what Epstein was doing.
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Co-host 2
Should we play the video?
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Co-host 1
Yeah, let's just play it.
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Co-host 2
Okay. Okay, everyone. So this is Robert Couture who's speaking with this CNN reporter. And he told the FBI that Jeffrey Epstein asked him to, you know, basically build out bunk beds and to, you know, build out a, a rooms with a very colorful palette for his girls. And his accent is maybe a little heavier, so you might not be able to fully understand, but he, he mentions bunk beds. And I think he asked him, like, are you, are you expecting grandchildren?
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Co-host 1
Yeah. So this is a very interesting interview.
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Robert Couturier (Architect)
There were bunk beds. And I said to him, he said, oh my God, are you expecting grandchildren? Grandchildren? And he said, no, these are for my, these are for the girls.
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Parent
That's architect and interior designer Robert Couturier. He was hired by Jeffrey Epstein in 2010 to work on his eyelid. He worked for a few months and then he quit. Couturier told the FBI that one of the reasons he decided to quit were those specific demands from Epstein, especially for the bunk rooms.
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Robert Couturier (Architect)
They had to be for girls, pink and these sorts of things.
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Parent
So there's no mistaking. This wasn't for women. These were.
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Robert Couturier (Architect)
There's no mistaking. You don't put women on bunk beds. I'm sorry. There was another little room with computers, and I said, what is this room? And he said, this room is for the girls when they have fun and they play with their computers. The whole house was very odd because we were on the beach, and the house had heavy, dark curtains everywhere. The windows were never really opened. It felt. It felt terrible. The girls and young women who went on the island were basic prisoners. You couldn't leave.
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Co-host 2
So this was in 2010. So this is after his prison. This is a convicted sex offender who was telling his interior designer and architect,
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Co-host 1
yeah, this is for the girls.
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Co-host 2
And not even pretending.
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Co-host 1
Yes. It's clearly never stopped. And sadly, a lot of those girls and young women who did become prisoners on that island would have been protected if the FBI had done its job and the department of justice and they had actually served the indictment that. That, you know, was really meant for him. And this is what attorney Brad Edwards said about that indictment, who represented about 200 Epstein victims. He said, what I said for the last 15 years holds true. The indictment that was prepared is the indictment that should have been served on him. Had the southern district of Florida gone forward with that proper indictment, it would have saved a lot of people.
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Co-host 2
So Alexander acosta resigned from his post as secretary of labor in 2019 after federal prosecutors in New York indicted Epstein on sex trafficking charges in 2020, the DOJ's Office of Professional responsibility. I didn't know that was a real office. It doesn't sound real. Concluded acosta and four others did not commit professional misconduct in handling the case, but that he showed, quote, poor judgment. I've heard that acosta has said that, you know, he was told to leave Epstein alone because he was a part of intelligence.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, yeah, let me go. Let me grab that quote. Or whether where that comes from. Yeah. So Alexander acosta, the former u. S. Attorney who approved Jeffrey Epstein's 2008 plea deal, allegedly claimed he was told to back off because Epstein belonged to intelligence. That's the, quote, a statement he denied in a 2025 congressional testimony. A 2020 DOJ review found no evidence that epstein was an intellig intelligence asset. So that claim is definitely contested.
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Co-host 2
Okay, everyone. So moving along to another thing that's come out of these files, which is that Jeffrey epstein had access to these doctors who he would send, you know, the girls and women that he was abusing to for. For various reasons. So the new york times reviewed more than 15,000 documents from the epstein files, including text messages, emails, lab results, and financial records.
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Howard Lutnick
And.
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Co-host 2
And they. And they show Epstein's interactions with more than a dozen doctors from 2009 to 2019 in relation to the treatment of underage girls and young women. The names of these women are largely redacted, but some were identified. One doctor that epstein was close to was Dr. Eva Anderson Dubin, founder of the dubin breast cancer center at mount sinai. A former miss Sweden, she had actually dated epstein while she was in medical school and remained close with him after marrying the hedge fund billionaire glenn dubin. Over the years, Epstein turned to Dr. Dubin for medical requests of all kinds.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. So the epstein files show that in 2012, a young Russian woman emailed epstein to ask if he would mind if she had sex with another man, if they used a condom. He said, quote, you must first go to the gyno saying that Eva. Dr. Eva Anderson Dubin would. Would call her.
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Co-host 2
And then in a subsequent message, he said Dr. Dubin would coordinate the referral. He said, quote, eva will organize doctor. Dr. Dumin was not on these emails. And the woman later reported back that Dr. Dubin had given her phone numbers for two doctors. So just like this kind of concierge doctor experience.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. Several months later, Epstein emailed Dr. Dubin with an urgent problem. He and the russian student were flying to new york from his private island in the u. S. Virgin islands. She had fallen off an ATV and she had a large gash in her forehead that needed attention. He wrote to Dr. Dubin and said, can you organize?
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Co-host 2
Thanks.
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Co-host 1
And she responded that one of Mount Sinai's top plastic surgeons, Dr. Jess Ting, would be standing by and she would also join. Join them. And the next day, Epstein recounted to an assistant that Dr. Ting had given the woman 35 stitches while she was laid out on the dining room table.
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Co-host 2
According to the files, Epstein directed women to get pelvic exams, liposuction, mole removals, and paid for a range of specialty treatments like 800 an hour. Psychiatric therapy, root canals. Sometimes he also just abruptly cut off their care. An assistant once forwarded him a request from a woman asking for 600 to refill her prescription for accutane. Ignore. Epstein replied, yeah.
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Co-host 1
So his wealth and elite connections gave him services from these doctors and vip Treatments at major hospitals. And the records have raised questions about whether some medical practices align with professional ethics standards. For example, one doctor sent Epstein's sexual partners elsewhere for gonorrhea treatments. So when their cases were reported to public health authorities, they wouldn't be tied to Epstein. Some doctors also shared patients private health information with him, disclosures that at least one woman was unhappy about. So one woman wrote to Epstein and said, all the doctors you pay directly keep you well informed about my treatments.
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Co-host 2
It was just clearly a full operation. You know, it was like, I have these women, I have these doctors. I have all these people who are just like, helping run my full operation.
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Co-host 1
That's a good point. He. He really needed a huge staff and to have connections, really, amongst professionals in lots of industries in order to keep the operation going. And one thing is that he apparently had ambulances or at least one ambulance on his ranch, which I guess you're not allowed to have. You can't just buy an ambulance.
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Co-host 2
I didn't know that.
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Co-host 1
Yeah. So we clearly had access to all sorts of professionals that most people just. Just would not.
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Co-host 2
Yeah. I mean, also, I think that, you know, this. This Eva Dubin character, she's in, like, New York society. Like, there's literally, you know, like, I feel like her name is on hospital walls, but she's connected to this guy. I also did look it up. There's no relation to Harry Dubin.
- [26:34]
Co-host 1
Oh, thank goodness.
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Co-host 2
Thank you. Because I was. I was like, surely these two.
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Co-host 1
Terry, is Harry in the. In the files. Yeah. Well, thank you for clearing Harry Dubin's name, Chandler. You know, we really appreciate that.
- [26:47]
Co-host 2
Of course. Well, Lauren, I think we should get into some names that are going to require a lot more to clear.
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Co-host 1
Yeah, truly.
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Co-host 2
Okay, so the first person I want to talk about is Peter Attia. And Peter Atia is like this. He's a doctor, Right. He's like a wellness guru. He was like on, you know, like ABC or something. He was like, yeah, Peter, Tia is this.
- [27:07]
Co-host 1
He's like a longevity bro. So he wrote that book, Outlive. No, it's not last. I think.
- [27:13]
Co-host 2
I think it's Olive. Yeah.
- [27:14]
Co-host 1
And he's just. He's one of the Huberman adjacent. Longevity.
- [27:18]
Co-host 2
Yes.
- [27:18]
Co-host 1
Doctors who espouses the virtues of cold plunging and all that.
- [27:23]
Child
Right.
- [27:23]
Co-host 1
Stuff.
- [27:24]
Co-host 2
Right. So he has some pretty crazy emails with Jeffrey Epstein. So there's an email from Jeffrey Epstein to Peter Attia, and Jeffrey says, got a fresh shipment. That's the subject line. And the photo is redacted. We don't Know what the photo is of? And Peter Atia responds and says, please tell me you found that photo online. And Jeffrey Epstein says, afraid not. And then Peter Atia responds and says, the biggest problem with becoming friends with you, the life you lead is so outrageous and yet I can't tell a soul. So this is in 2015. Okay. He's a convicted sex offender. We have another email from Peter Attia to Jeffrey that says, no, thank you so much. See you next time. Hopefully Jeffrey Epstein is in town when I'm back in two weeks. I go into Jeffrey Epstein withdrawal when I don't see him. Yeah, Je.
- [28:13]
Co-host 1
It's a big. He had to really suffer through a lot of JE withdrawals, which were hard for him, even though he gave Jeffrey Epstein so much important knowledge, nutritional information, like the fact that said his low carb.
- [28:25]
Co-host 2
Yes.
- [28:26]
Co-host 1
So these are not good emails.
- [28:29]
Co-host 2
Also, a huge thing that I did not realize was that he writes about in his book, the fact that he was so consumed with his work and just with, you know, he was just head first doing what, what he wanted to do with his career, that his child actually had a heart attack and he did not go home to be with his family for like 10 days after this had happened. And he writes about this because after
- [28:53]
Co-host 1
what happened, his child has a heart attack. Right, right after the heart attack.
- [28:56]
Co-host 2
And he's literally, because he claims he was so, you know, consumed with work, but he's literally emailing Epstein during this time that.
- [29:04]
Co-host 1
In that, that he has Jeff Je Withdrawals. That email.
- [29:06]
Co-host 2
No, it's different. It's just like emailing him about, you know, meeting up with him, just like scheduling time during that time he can
- [29:12]
Co-host 1
see Jeffrey Epstein, but he can't be with his child.
- [29:14]
Co-host 2
Just had a heart. Yes. Got it, Grant. And this is all once again, 2017. This is not, you know, yeah, it
- [29:20]
Co-host 1
was in 2017, two years before his death, but before his arrest and his death and you know, probably at the height of everything that he was doing. And because you would assume that after 2008, you probably just thought, I could get with it away with anything now.
- [29:33]
Co-host 2
Yeah, absolutely. So this is what Peter Atia has had to say for himself. So he wrote on X and he said in November 2018, I read the Miami Herald investigative article. I was repulsed by what I learned, nauseated. It marked a clear and irreversible line between what I knew before and what I understood afterward. At that point, I told him directly he needed to accept responsibility for what he did. So he says, you know, I drew a line with him.
- [29:56]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And I think legally it's important to say there's no evidence of any wrongdoing, any criminality on the part of Peter Attia. But it is highly problematic that he was sending emails like pussy is low carb. And you lead such a, what was it, such a wild life or outrageous.
- [30:13]
Co-host 2
An outrageous life. And, you know, I can't tell anybody about it. So he claims that, you know, he drew a line with Jeffrey Epstein after he read the Miami Herald article. But then there's an email from him to Jeffrey Epstein in December of 2018 that says home is very good work, stressful, making some changes. What is fallout from recent story?
- [30:33]
Co-host 1
Yeah, so he has not cut ties at that point. Okay, well, let's move on to a different person. Yeah, let's chat about Katherine Rumler. So Katherine Rummler is one of the names that appears very often in the files. She's mentioned more than 10,000 times in the documents released by the DOJ. So she was a very high powered attorney and she also served as the White House counsel under Barack Obama from 2011 to 2014. So that role is essentially the President's chief legal advisor, the person responsible for overseeing legal strategy and navigating the White House through investigations, ethics issues and constitutional questions. After the White House, she returned to private practice at the law firm Latham and Watkins, where she became one of the most prominent litigators in Washington. Then in 2020, she took another role, general counsel for Goldman Sachs. So this is one of the most high powered attorneys in the country. And she has a very close relationship with Epstein. It'd be very hard for her to deny her closeness given the emails that have been exposed in the files and to, and to also to say that she severed ties with him because there's evidence of these ongoing communications.
- [31:48]
Co-host 2
So she's introduced to him in 2014, you know, after we all know basically what's been going on. And this is the exchange that, that they have. And this is the way that he, the way that he talks to her. I think she is talking to him about whether or not to take a job. And I can't remember if it is the job with Obama.
- [32:11]
Co-host 1
It is the Obama job. Yeah. She's debating whether she should take the job with Obama and she says, most girls do not have to worry about this crap. And he says to her, girls, end quote. Careful, I will renew an old habit.
- [32:27]
Co-host 2
And for the record, she's talking about like having to weigh all the pros and cons of taking this job.
- [32:32]
Co-host 1
Yeah, that's the.
- [32:33]
Co-host 2
That's what they're discussing before this. It's not like they're talking. I don't know, it's just not even about anything, you know, sexual or romantic.
- [32:42]
Co-host 1
Yeah, it's a very weird non sequitur on his part.
- [32:45]
Co-host 2
Yes.
- [32:45]
Co-host 1
There. I couldn't find actually a response for her directly about. About that in this email thread or any acknowledgment, but he definitely felt comfortable enough with her. To Jo joking with her about having an old habit that had to do with, quote, girls.
- [32:59]
Co-host 2
Imagine you're literally talking to a registered sex offender and he makes a joke that says, careful, yeah, you know, I'll renew an old habit. So moving on from that exchange, we also get into the nature of their relationship, and there's just a lot of gift giving. So Epstein, he has this pattern of cultivating relationships through generosity. And let me just say, the man loves to give an apple watch. Okay. At one point, she, like, tells him what type of apple watch band she wants. She wants the Hermes apple watch band, the 40 millimeter stainless Hermes with blue indigo swift leather double tour like the name. She's also gotten an Hermes bag, a Fendi purse, spa visits, flowers, wine, $10,000 in Bergdorf Goodman gift cards. And she wrote about Epstein in an email, and she says, well, I adore him. It's like having another older brother.
- [33:48]
Co-host 1
There's an email from one of his assistants and another email that says, confirm Hermes bag for Kathy. So, yeah, it's. It's quite interesting. In an email in 2015, Epstein asks Rumler about the legalities of prostitution and specifically about the age of consent for minors. So he says, no girl came to the house to learn math. Does sex for money change the equation?
- [34:14]
Co-host 2
I don't really understand what he's saying to her.
- [34:15]
Co-host 1
I think he's basically asking her if the fact that the girls took money meant that they, like, it was less of a problem. Like, they clearly didn't come here to my house for any other reason.
- [34:27]
Co-host 2
Right, okay.
- [34:28]
Co-host 1
Like, they didn't. The girls didn't come to my house to learn math.
- [34:31]
Co-host 2
Basically, there was an exchange.
- [34:32]
Co-host 1
Does sex for money change the equation? And so she responds and she says, I think the point is that if she was underage, she could not legally consent to engaging in prostitution.
- [34:42]
Co-host 2
In January of 2019, she's interviewing for the job at Goldman, and she told Jeffrey Epstein that she was wearing gifts from him. She says, I'm totally tricked out by Uncle Jeffrey today. Jeffrey, boots, handbag, and watch.
- [34:55]
Co-host 1
So I think it's just really disappointing to see that an attorney at the White House under Obama, you know, part of general counsel for Goldman Sachs, a really high up attorney, would be so heavily affiliated with Epstein. And especially as a woman, you know,
- [35:09]
Co-host 2
I think what we see over and over again is that the people who are in these. These powerful high positions that we put so much esteem, and so we have so much respect for these offices we have so much respect for, they are very comfortable talking to this guy, casually spending time with him, joking with him, like he is a friend of theirs.
- [35:27]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Co-host 2
And they'll say publicly, I cut ties. But they're still worried about him. You know, they still want to, like, make sure that things are all good.
- [35:34]
Co-host 1
Well, and what's interesting about Katherine Romler is that she was communicating with Epstein about how to rehab his public image. So in 2019, he was back in the headlines. And investigative reporting in the Miami Herald had reignited public scrutiny of the 2008 plea deal and the broader allegations against him. And there was all this renewed outrage about him. And she was giving him advice on kind of what a statement to make would be in order to defend himself. Kind of saying, you should just say, this is all this old stuff that's already. It's all just being rehashed. And it's not illegal for her to. To give an acquaintance legal advice. But the timing is striking because it happens just four months before Epstein's arrest in July 2019 on federal sex trafficking charges.
- [36:24]
Co-host 2
None of these conversations are illegal, but it reveals something about the. The company that these people keep.
- [36:31]
Co-host 1
Yeah. Yeah. And one fun, interesting fact is that Catherine Rumler was actually one of the only people that. That Epstein called right after he was arrested. When the big arrest happened on July 6, my birthday, 2019, and I saw a birthday present to myself. He contacted three people while he was in the FBI vehicle, one of which was Katherine Rumler. And also he had a new. He had a will. A new will drafted after his arrest. And she was named as a backup executor of his will. So clearly, you know, this is someone he had a lot of trust in.
- [37:10]
Co-host 2
So let's move on to the next person in these files. Okay.
- [37:15]
Co-host 1
Can we all agree that we are spiritually done with winter? I love a coat moment, but I am ready to wear something that doesn't feel like a sleeping bag over my body.
- [37:24]
Co-host 2
Same. I have hit the point in Winter where every outfit is just how many layers can I put on without completely freezing to death? I'm ready to bring my personality back into my wardrobe. Like, imagine that.
- [37:38]
Co-host 1
I absolutely can. And Macy's is officially stepping us out of winter and into our spring fashion era. This is the season of the reset chan. We're dopamine dressing. We're romanticizing our everyday outfits and pretending our walk to coffee is a Runway.
- [37:53]
Co-host 2
And you don't need a whole new wardrobe, everybody. You just need a few pieces that swish up the energy.
- [37:58]
Co-host 1
Okay, real question. When you walk into Macy's in spring, what's the first department you drift toward?
- [38:04]
Co-host 2
I always feel like I am drawn to shoes first. I always have to make a stop in the shoe department. Same.
- [38:09]
Co-host 1
I don't even pretend to browse responsibly. I'm like, let me find one pair that feels like spring. So suddenly all my outfits feel new. I just want shoes that aren't winter boots, but also not emotionally fragile sandals.
- [38:24]
Co-host 2
Yes. And for me, living in New York, I need a shoe that says spring is here. But also I can walk more than two blocks in these.
- [38:31]
Co-host 1
Which is why Macy's having the it shoes of the season is dangerous for us. Mesh shoes are everywhere right now. See through, airy, cute. And they've got them from Dolce Vita, Sam Edelman, Steve Madden. Guess like I'm trying to be responsible, but the shoes they have at Macy's are not helping.
- [38:47]
Co-host 2
Shoes alone can fully change the vibe of an outfit. You could be wearing the same jeans and top you were wearing in winter, but the right shoe just gives it a whole new in.
- [38:56]
Co-host 1
Speaking of jeans, one fresh denim silhouette can change how everything else in your closet works. This spring is all about new shapes. Balloon barrel, wide, leg cropped. It's like your regular jeans, but cooler and with slightly more character.
- [39:10]
Co-host 2
When I get a new pair of jeans, it kind of makes me feel like I have a whole new wardrobe. Like, all my tops feel new and different and interesting because they can be paired with a new denim look. Exactly. Also, I just feel like if you go to Macy's, they have so many
- [39:24]
Co-host 1
incredible ways to experiment with color, shape,
- [39:27]
Co-host 2
shape, texture, and details without it feeling overwhelming. So you can add character to an outfit with a fun jacket, interesting denim or statement shoes, boom. You look put together. Also, the spring events really sneak up on you. All of a sudden it's not January anymore, It's wedding season, graduation, garden parties, brunches in the park, and you're just like, I can't wear the same dress and flats to everything. That's where spring occasion style comes in.
- [39:52]
Co-host 1
Linen suits are breathable, effortless, and such a good guest look when it's warm out and dresses this season. Sheer layering, asymmetrical hems, lace. Those little details add just enough luxury and chicness to make you feel confident
- [40:05]
Co-host 2
walking into any event. So basically, if you're ready to ditch your winter coat and wear something that actually reflects your personality again, Macy's is the move. It's the spring style reset without the
- [40:15]
Child
pressure to reinvent yourself.
- [40:17]
Co-host 2
Absolutely.
- [40:18]
Co-host 1
Find the pieces that bring energy into your wardrobe. Play around, have fun with it. Spring is about the refresh. And honestly, if all you do is buy a new pair of shoes and one great pair of jeans, you're already winning.
- [40:29]
Co-host 2
Agreed. Step into spring.
- [40:31]
Child
Literally.
- [40:32]
Co-host 2
Shop now in stores or@macy's.com. let's talk about Steve Tish.
- [40:36]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [40:37]
Co-host 2
So to understand how Jeffrey Epstein's operation functioned socially, you don't really have to look necessarily at the crimes themselves. You just have to see this pattern emerge once again where it's a wealthy man, you know, with power who gets connected to another wealthy man. And Jeffrey Epstein acts as the connector between these acquaintances and women he knows.
- [40:57]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [40:58]
Co-host 2
And so this is what goes down with him and Steve Tish.
- [41:00]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And Steve Tisch, for those of you who don't know, he's the co owner and chairman of the NFL team the New York Giants, and he has been a part of the team's ownership group for decades. He also has a career in Hollywood, best known for producing Forrest Gump. He is at this intersection of sports, entertainment and elite social circles. So the January 2026 release of the files show Tish's name repeatedly from the early 2010s, particularly email exchanges dating back back to 2013, again after Epstein's conviction, appearing at least 440 times among the documents released.
- [41:34]
Co-host 2
So in one, there's a string of emails where Tish messages a woman and he says, Jeffrey Epstein is very excited about you and I meeting each other. I like that idea. Do you? He proposes a meeting and then he says, let me know if my schedule gives you an opportunity to get together, please. Your picture is great.
- [41:52]
Co-host 1
So then Epstein writes to Tish two days later and and says she is traveling. Not sure when she returns to Florida. She has a micro biology major and she is still in university, so I doubt she could travel during the week, but we'll see. You could also make it clear that you will organize her ticket. Tish later writes back and said, never heard back from her. Oh, well.
- [42:12]
Co-host 2
So then another email string between Epstein and Tish and the subject line is just Ukrainian girl. It's Just, just. It's so transactional and transparent. It seems so it's. It says, hi Jeffrey, I just had lunch with your assistant's friend. The name's been redacted. Who I met at your house Wednesday morning. Very sweet girl. Do you know anything about her?
- [42:31]
Co-host 1
And Epstein replies, no, but I will ask. I will get all info. Did you contact the great ass fake tit. And then her name is redacted. She's a character, short term, has an older boyfriend, going to acting school. A ten act ass. I'm happy to have you as a new but obviously shared interest friend.
- [42:48]
Co-host 2
So then he replies and says, curious to know about redacted. I will Contact redacted@dopro or civilian. So which, which is a obvious like reference to whether or not she's like a prostitute or not sex worker.
- [43:02]
Co-host 1
At one point, Epstein writes, send me a number to call. I don't like records of these conversations. He's watched a little bit of Roni. He knows, say it, forget it, write it, regret it.
- [43:12]
Co-host 2
Exactly.
- [43:12]
Co-host 1
You know, he wants to heed Dorinda's wise words there. So after they have this exchange, Epstein writes to Tish and says, report just in. You did very well. She wants to go to the play. She's a little freaked out by the age difference, but go slow and wait. I will try to convince her not to return to Ukraine. Having her cry. Crying worked. I don't know what that means.
- [43:31]
Co-host 2
I don't know what that means either. It's so creepy. Just that she's a little freaked out by the age difference.
- [43:36]
Co-host 1
So. Yeah, so it's important to say that the significance of the Tish emails isn't that they prove criminal wrongdoing. What they reveal is something quieter, but just how Epstein moves socially. On the surface, the exchanges looked fairly ordinary. Someone meeting a woman at a gathering, sending a follow up email asking for for more information or arranging lunch. But when you zoom out, the pattern becomes clearer. Even after his conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor, Epstein continued to move comfortably in elite circles where powerful people still interacted with him. The correspondence with Tish offers a glimpse into how these relationships. Relationships functioned in practice. Introductions made at Epstein's home, follow up messages about women who had been there, and Epstein acting as the person who could provide additional information or facilitate context.
- [44:18]
Co-host 2
What I will say is that Steve Tish does acknowledge these exchanges with Jeffrey Epstein. And he says, we had a brief association where we exchange emails about adult women. And in addition we discussed movies, philanthropy and investments. I did not take him up on any of his invitations and never went to his island. As we all know now, he was a terrible person and someone I deeply regret associating with.
- [44:38]
Co-host 1
Okay, so let's move on to another person that is repeatedly in these files, which is Howard Lutnick. So today, Howard Lutnick serves as the United States Secretary of Commerce. Before entering government, he was best known as the longtime CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, the financial services firm that lost hundreds of employees in the September 11 attacks. In Washington and on Wall street, he has long been considered a powerful figure.
- [45:01]
Co-host 2
So Lutnick is another person who claims to have cut ties, to have, you know, had an interaction with Jeffrey Epstein and decided to, you know, never return. But then the files come out, and it's very clear that the relationship did not end.
- [45:14]
Co-host 1
Yeah, for years, Lutnick publicly distanced himself. And as recently as October 2025, he said he cut ties with Epstein. And here is interviewer. He describes Epstein as the greatest blackmailer ever.
- [45:27]
Howard Lutnick
That's what his M.O. was. You know, get a massage. Get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever. I assume way back when they traded those videos in exchange for him getting that 18 month sentence.
- [45:43]
Co-host 2
Apparently he lived close to Epstein, like on the Upper east side. And so they were neighbors. And so, like, when they first met, they came over, Jeffrey Epstein gave them a tour of his house. And that's when this interaction happens.
- [45:54]
Sponsor Voice 1
Lutnick describing Epstein as gross.
- [45:57]
Howard Lutnick
I say to him, massage table in the middle of your house. How often you have a massage? And he says, every day. And then he, like, gets, like, weirdly close to me.
- [46:10]
Co-host 1
Oh.
- [46:11]
Howard Lutnick
And he says, and the right kind of massage.
- [46:15]
Co-host 2
And so, you know, he says in the story, he didn't get into it here, but he said that him and his wife left and were like, let's never, you know, interact with that guy again. He. He's creepy or whatever. Like, they both had a bad feeling. And the interesting thing here is that in 2012, Letnick was traveling in the Caribbean with his wife, children, and friends, and they planned to stop at the, you know, little St. James island along the way. And so we have emails showing Lutnick writing to Epstein, you know, to coordinate the visit, asking for the island's exact location so his boat captain could find it, suggesting, you know, they meet it for dinner during the trip. So, you know, I think an interesting stop to make at a guy's island that you feel like is really, you know, creepy and terrible.
- [47:01]
Co-host 1
Yeah. So when questioned by lawmakers in February 2026, Letnick confirmed that he and his family did have lunch with Epstein on the island during that trip. He told a Senate Appropriation subcommittee that the stop lasted about an hour while his family was on vacation in the Caribbean. And that admission was significant for a simple reason. It directly contradicted the earlier narrative that he completely cut ties with Epstein in 2005.
- [47:24]
Co-host 2
So documents and reporting also show that Letnick and Epstein were involved in a business venture around the same period, working on a deal connected to an advertising technology company called adfin in late 2012. So, you know, they weren't just social acquaintances. They were engaged in a business arrangement for years after. Epstein had already pleaded guilty to, you know, soliciting prostitution in 2008 from a minor.
- [47:46]
Co-host 1
Yeah. So Lutnick has since said that he is willing to cooperate with congressional inquiries. In fact, he has agreed to voluntarily appear before the House Oversight Committee as it reviews connections between Epstein and influential figures. Lutnick has not been accused of participating in Epstein's crimes, and he has denied any improper conduct.
- [48:04]
Co-host 2
Yeah, once again, another person who said that they cut ties, but there's more to the story.
- [48:09]
Co-host 1
Yeah. So let's get to Epstein's connections in the tech world. World.
- [48:12]
Co-host 2
So, Elon Musk's name appears in the files primarily through email and through some scheduling notes connected to Jeffrey Epstein.
- [48:19]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [48:19]
Co-host 2
Elon Musk has publicly stated that he never visited Epstein's public, that he never visited Epstein's private island, and that he declined invitations connected to Epstein's social events. And he's also said that he avoided deeper involvement with Epstein and did not participate in any gatherings there.
- [48:34]
Co-host 1
Yeah, so he tweeted, basically, that Epstein had invited him, and he. He said he didn't want to go.
- [48:40]
Co-host 2
Yeah, he was like, no, thanks.
- [48:41]
Co-host 1
Yeah, he just rejected invitations. So, in a November 2012 email exchange, Epstein asked Musk how many people he planned to bring for a helicopter trip to his island. Musk replied, referencing himself and his then wife, actress Tallulah Riley. The emails are about logistics on getting to the island for a visit. Another exchange includes Musk asking Epstein what day slash night will be the wildest party on your island. I believe he's sending this email at Christmas, and his family is going to leave St. Bart's and he wants to then go with Tallulah to Epstein's island for a super wild party. And he basically says, I'm not looking for a relaxing island experience. I've had a crazy year. Clearly wants to end it With a crazy banger. Yeah.
- [49:25]
Co-host 2
I also want to say that I. I believe there's something else in these documents that show that Jeffrey Epstein also said to him, like, you're female partner might feel a little bit uncomfortable about the ratio.
- [49:38]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And he's. And Musk says she's fine with the ratio. Yeah, essentially. Yeah.
- [49:44]
Co-host 2
So, you know, in addition to the. The 2012 exchange about what, you know, what day and night will be the wildest party on your island, we have a scheduling note from 2014 that says Elon Musk to Island December 6th. You know, it's just like we don't know whether or not he went to the island on December 6th.
- [50:00]
Co-host 1
We don't know if he ever went, but he was trying to get there. Is asking, when is your wildest party going to be? There is email from Ghislaine to Epstein that basically says, oh, we're winding down the Little James, St. James operation. Kind of a bummer.
- [50:14]
Co-host 2
Oh, you mean an email to Musk?
- [50:15]
Co-host 1
Yeah, an email to Elon, kind of. Basically. It seems like they're saying, kind of like they're like, yeah, they're over him. Like they're trying to get him during. They're trying to like Loki ghost him, basically.
- [50:26]
Co-host 2
Well, then we get into this next exchange where Jeffrey reaches out to Elon. It just like, I feel like it shows a little power dynamic that's happening here. Yeah. And so Jeffrey reaches out to Elon and he says, any plans for New York? The opening of the General assembly has many interesting people coming to the house. So basically he's kind of saying, you know, you could come over here and, you know, make some connections with people who will help you with your endeavors, whatever.
- [50:52]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And Elon writes back and he says, I run and lead product design engineering for two complicated companies. Moreover, SpaceX is about to launch, but is arguably the most advanced rocket in history. Flying to New York to see UN diplomats do nothing would be an unwise use of time. Time.
- [51:06]
Co-host 2
So then Epstein kind of like, you know, changes course and says, do you think I am R word? Just kidding. There's NO1 over 25 and all very cute.
- [51:14]
Co-host 1
I don't even think he was changing course. I think that he was. I don't think there was ever a party at his house with dignitaries. I think he was just inviting him to a party. And he. The way he was, you know, he was saying, there will be interesting people at my house. And. And Elon thought that meant these people are going to be like UN dignitaries.
- [51:33]
Co-host 2
Right. But it was code but it was
- [51:34]
Co-host 1
code for like he sings. Do you think I'm the R word? Just kidding. There's no 1 over 25 and they're all very cute. Like, this is a party with young girls. Yeah. Or very young women. And obviously it's important to note that there's no evidence of any criminality or wrongdoing from Elon Musk. And we don't know if he ever went to the Manhattan townhome. We don't know if he ever visited the island.
- [51:53]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [51:53]
Co-host 1
Okay, so let's talk about Bill Gates, who obviously is a major tech figure and figure in the Epstein world.
- [52:00]
Co-host 2
Yes.
- [52:00]
Co-host 1
Beginning in 2011, Bill Gates met with Epstein on numerous occasions, including at least three times at Epstein's Manhattan townhouse and at least once staying late into the night, according to interviews with more than a dozen people familiar with their relationship, as well as documents reviewed by the New York Times. His lifestyle is very different and kind of intriguing. Although it would not work for me. Bill emailed colleagues in 2011 after his first get together with Epstein.
- [52:25]
Co-host 2
I also want to play Bill Gates, you know, speaking about Epstein.
- [52:29]
Co-host 1
Oh, great.
- [52:29]
Co-host 2
So this is, you know, what Bill Gates has to say. I never went to the island. I never met any women. And so, you know, the more that comes out, the more clear it'll be that although the time was a mistake, it had nothing to do with that kind of behavior.
- [52:43]
Co-host 1
Thank you so much for playing that video, him saying it in his own words because he's saying, he says, I never went to the island. I never met any women. And yet in one of the emails in the Epstein files, probably one of the most jaw dropping, it's written from Jeffrey Epstein to himself. So we don't know if he, if Bill Gates ever got this. It's kind of a personal journal entry of sorts, it seems. But Epstein wrote that he had helped Gates acquire drugs in order to, quote, deal with the consequences of sex with Russian girls. And obviously before the files came out, Bill Gates said, I never went to the island. I never met any women. And now the files came out and Gates is now, you know, know he has admitted to two affairs with two Russian women during his marriage to Melinda Gates. This was in February 2026. So just a month ago. And he apologized to staff at the Gates foundation for his past association with Jeffrey Epstein. He identified them as a bridge player he met at and a Russian nuclear physicist that he met through his business activities. The admissions were made during a st. A staff down hall. And it's just, it's very Interesting. You know, know, I guess. Is there the off chance that he didn't meet those Russian women through Jeffrey Epstein and Jeffrey Epstein just happened to know about them and he was writing in this email about. About them getting him antibiotics to try to slip them to Melinda, per chance.
- [54:10]
Co-host 2
I think Melinda's account of it all kind of says everything to me.
- [54:15]
Co-host 1
Oh, interesting.
- [54:16]
Co-host 2
Like, I. I just think that if Melinda really believed that. That Bill Gates was innocent in all this or that he had, you know, strayed, but he hadn't, you know, strayed in this. This, you know, awful of a way, which. Or he wasn't involved with Jeffrey Epstein really in that way. I just feel like she would doing more.
- [54:34]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [54:34]
Co-host 2
Or like. Her responses always feel very damning to me. Her responses always feel like, yeah, he's an evil guy and I hope that there's justice.
- [54:43]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And her responses always seem like, you got to ask Bill about it.
- [54:46]
Co-host 2
Exactly.
- [54:46]
Co-host 1
She's not trying to protect the reputation of her children's father.
- [54:49]
Child
Exactly that.
- [54:50]
Co-host 1
Yeah. In another email, Epstein blasted Gates for choosing to, quote, disregard and discard our friendship that developed over six years. He accused Gates of abandoning him in order to preserve his reputation.
- [55:01]
Co-host 2
Okay, so moving on from Bill Gates, let's talk about Richard Branson.
- [55:06]
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Co-host 2
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- [57:13]
Co-host 2
Group and he also appears in these email records. In September 2013, following a meeting on Necker island, which I believe is the island he owns. Owns right. Disney owns. Which also isn't that like just back to Taylor Swift for a moment. Isn't Richard Branson like Necker Island? Isn't that. I feel like that's a part of the Harry Styles lore with her. Didn't she like go she like blue dress on a boat?
- [57:37]
Co-host 1
Chandler, what a great point to bring up. That's perfect. So Harry Styles, when he and Taylor broke up, he went to Necker island after that breakup and she was in the BVIs. It's unclear if you know he was staying there or if he just went there after and if she was ever there. But that is where Harry Styles went to Necker island after.
- [58:00]
Co-host 2
I mean that that felt like a relevant detail.
- [58:02]
Co-host 1
It is a very relevant detail.
- [58:04]
Co-host 2
But back to the matter at hand. So in 2013, following this meeting on Necker island with with Epstein, Branson emails him and says it was really nice seeing you yesterday. Anytime you're in the area, would love to see you. As long as you bring your harem.
- [58:21]
Co-host 1
That's very gross. So the wording attracted attention. When the email surfaced. The version group later said that the term was meant to refer to adult female members of Epstein's staff or social circle, not anything illegal. So he probably meant to say it was really nice seeing yesterday. Anytime you're in the area would love to see you as long as you bring your adult female members of your staff or social circle.
- [58:43]
Co-host 2
Can you imagine like referring to like, you know, the female employees who work for us as like our harem? Like, it's just so laughable. That's his excuse.
- [58:53]
Co-host 1
Yeah, exactly.
- [58:54]
Co-host 2
So in that very same email, Richard Branson also suggests that Bill Gates would be willing to vouch for Epstein. He says, I think if Bill Gates was willing to say that you've been a brilliant advisor to him and that you slipped up many years ago by sleeping with a 17 and a half year old woman and you were punished for different. And were punished for it, that you've more than learned your lesson and have done nothing that's against the law since. And yes, as a single man, you seem to have a penchant for women, but there's nothing wrong with that. That was his, you know, that's, that's his PR strategy that, you know, 17 and a half year old woman one time years ago. So basically I think it's saying that like, you know, maybe in 2013 it really did seem like it was just a. It wasn't like young, young girls wasn't well known.
- [59:38]
Co-host 1
Right. Like the. Him wanting Billy to vouch for him.
- [59:42]
Co-host 2
I think, I think what it's saying is that maybe in Richard Branson's mind it was just like he like slept with someone who was a little bit underage and, and this was a one he didn't know that he was like a full child sex predator. That's what it's trying to say is that like potentially Richard Branson didn't know the depth of his crimes.
- [60:02]
Co-host 1
I don't think this is, I don't think this is getting into Whitworth. Richard, Richard Branson knew at all. I think he's just trying to give Bill Gates away to.
- [60:08]
Co-host 2
No, I.
- [60:09]
Co-host 1
He's trying to vouch. He's basically just trying to. I think he's just saying like this is the excuse you could give. He's not saying that I believe this to be the case.
- [60:16]
Co-host 2
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. Whatever the truth. So it's, it's clear that Richard Branson, you know, was on Team Jeffrey Epstein
- [60:28]
Co-host 1
was, you know, wanted to have Bill Gates voucher himself.
- [60:31]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [60:31]
Co-host 1
And he wanted him to bring his harem. Yeah.
- [60:34]
Co-host 2
So he was along for the ride as well.
- [60:37]
Co-host 1
A spokeswoman for Bill Gates said that he never offered such a recommendation for Epstein.
- [60:41]
Co-host 2
Okay, so now let's just get into quickly a couple more people who are in These emails. Let's talk about Deepak Chopra. So, you know, he has taught the art of transcending the material world. And he also was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. At one point he wrote in 2017, God is a construct. Cute girls are real.
- [61:04]
Co-host 1
To Jeffrey Epstein. To Jeffrey Epstein.
- [61:05]
Parent
Wow.
- [61:06]
Co-host 2
And then in another email, he says, come to Israel with us. Relax and have fun with interesting people. If you want to use a fake name, bring your girls. It will be fun. It will be fun to have you love Deepak Chopra.
- [61:18]
Co-host 1
So Deepak Chopra says, come to Israel, relax and have fun with interesting people. Right, right. And in the email from Epstein to Elon Musk, he says, the opening for the General assembly has many interesting people coming to the house. What are interesting people is like an interesting code.
- [61:34]
Co-host 2
Code or something.
- [61:35]
Co-host 1
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, for underage or, you know, very
- [61:38]
Co-host 2
young girls, I'll just read Deepak Chopra's statement about this. He says, I'm deeply saddened by the suffering of the victims in this case. I unequivocally condemn abuse and exploitation in all forms. Want to be clear, I was never involved in, nor did I participate in any criminal or exploitation meditative conduct. Any contact I had was limited and unrelated to abusive activity. Some past email exchanges have surfaced that reflect poor judgment and tone. I regret that and understand how they read today given what was publicly known at the time. My focus remains on supporting accountability, prevention and efforts that protect and support survivors.
- [62:10]
Co-host 1
Sure.
- [62:11]
Co-host 2
So anyway, thank you for that.
- [62:13]
Co-host 1
All right, so let's just talk about, you know, what real world consequences have people actually faced as a result of being named in these files.
- [62:21]
Co-host 2
So despite heads not really rolling in this case, there have been some lesser consequences for some of the people we've talked about. There's been damaged reputations, resignations, investigations and, you know, congressional scrutiny.
- [62:33]
Co-host 1
Yeah.
- [62:33]
Co-host 2
So as we mentioned earlier, Goldman Sachs announced in February that Kathleen, that Katherine Rumler would step down from her role with her resignation taking effect at the end of June. So she's actually still there right now. So. But she is having to resign.
- [62:47]
Co-host 1
Yeah, she is having to resign. I guess she makes $20 million a year. So that is a real ramification of this, you know, of this relationship. And another prominent legal figure who stepped down after the release of Epstein related emails was Brad Karp, the long term chairman of the major law firm Paul Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton and Garrison. Emails that surfaced in the files showed Karp thanking Epstein for what he described as a, quote, once in a lifetime evening and later asking Epstein to help arrange a job opportunity for his son on a film connected to the director Woody Allen. After those emails became public, Karp resigned from his leadership role at the firm.
- [63:26]
Co-host 2
Okay, I want to talk about Woody Allen for a moment because there was an exchange between Jeffrey Epstein and Woody Allen where, you know, obviously these two are for us, friends, where Jeffrey Epstein or Woody Allen makes a joke about pedophiles.
- [63:43]
Co-host 1
Oh, my God.
- [63:43]
Co-host 2
They say, like, you know, is this the. About meeting up in Paris? Okay. And, you know, and I swear in the report that I read, it was like, you know, is this the dinner of pedophiles? It's not the Tina Brown quote.
- [63:56]
Co-host 1
It's something different. Okay.
- [63:58]
Co-host 2
But then Woody Allen or Jeffrey Epstein, I can't remember who responds, says, you know, I believe it's pronounced pedophilia, like in French. Yes. Yuck. But Woody Allen is also mentioned in these files, and he had a close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
- [64:13]
Co-host 1
So. Another person facing consequences is Steve Tish. He recently announced that he is planning to transfer his 23.1 stake in the New York Giants to trust for his children, Jonathan and Lori Tish. Despite this, Tish's role at the team will, quote, remain status quo, confirming that he will continue to be involved in team operations. That being said, there are no legal investigations at this time.
- [64:36]
Co-host 2
So Howard Lutnick, who is in the. He's literally like in the top 10 people in the line of succession if something were to happen to the President. Wow. He has faced scrutiny since the January 2026 file release. Obviously, he's appeared before the Senate Appropriations Committee. He acknowledged the visit and answered questions about his relationship with Epstein. He has also said he's willing to testify further and has volunteered to appear before the House over oversight committee if required.
- [65:03]
Co-host 1
Casey Wasserman, the sports executive and Chairman of the 2028 Los Angeles Olympic Organizing Committee, also has faced fallout after emails involving Ghislaine Maxwell came to light. Following the release of those communications, Wasserman began the process of selling his sports marketing company and move, widely viewed as an effort to limit conflicts and distance the Olympic Organizing Committee from the controversy surrounding Epstein's network. So while this isn't quite justice, there are developments that represent some real world consequences for people whose relationships with Epste became publicly documented, which is better than nothing.
- [65:37]
Co-host 2
Yeah. And I, you know, I hope that justice will continue to prevail in this and that if there is evidence, credible evidence, that people are prosecuted.
- [65:48]
Co-host 1
Yeah. And so we should just talk a little bit about what's happening in Europe right now. So Europe has taken a much More aggressive approach to anyone with connections to Jeffrey Epstein in Norway. In February 2026, Norwegian authorities charged Torbjorn Jaglund with. I'm sure I pronounced that incorrectly, so apologies, but with aggravated corruption following a police investigation into his relationship with Epstein. If convicted, the top diplomat could face up to 10 years in prison, according to Norwegian law. Yaglund is not a minor political figure. He's a former Prime Minister of Norway and the former Secretary General of the Council of Europe.
- [66:26]
Co-host 2
Europe.
- [66:27]
Co-host 1
Prosecutors say the charges relate to gifts, travel and loans connected to Epstein.
- [66:32]
Co-host 2
And so moving into the uk, obviously, we know that, you know, Prince Andrew was arrested and obviously stripped of his royal titles and that the King has said, you know, he's ready to cooperate with a full investigation.
- [66:46]
Co-host 1
And Prince Andrew was arrested relating to allegations of sharing confidential trade data when he was working as a trade envoy. So not, not nothing for activities with women or underage girls.
- [67:00]
Co-host 2
Right.
- [67:01]
Co-host 1
But at least there's some ramifications.
- [67:03]
Co-host 2
Right. And also in the uk, we didn't talk about Peter Mandelson, but he is another person who was, you know, a part of this cast of characters who had, you know, involvement with Epstein. And he was also arrested by London Place in February on suspicion of misconduct in public office. Basically he, like, remains under investigation for potentially passing sensitive market moving information to Epstein while he was serving as a senior UK minister in 2009 and 10.
- [67:33]
Co-host 1
Yeah. So there's been immediate consequences, it seemed like, it seems like, for anyone in Europe who has any connections to Epstein. Morgan Sweeney, the Chief of Staff to Prime Minister Keir Starmer, resigned immediately after connection surfaced involving him and Epstein. There was no prolonged investigation period or congressional style hearing process. The association alone was enough to end his role.
- [67:56]
Co-host 2
Yeah. So he resigned. And then finally, in France, prosecutors have maintained an active investigation into Epstein connected activity on French soil since 2020. The inquiry has included scrutiny of Epstein's Paris apartment on Avenue Foch, one of the most expensive addresses in the city. And French authorities have continued examining financial and trafficking related allegations connected to Epstein's operations. Operations there. So, yeah, we see, you know, Europe taking action. You know, I did see that Pam Bondi is subpoenaed and she will have to, you know, testify about, you know, her. Her behavior in, in all of this. Yeah, And I only, I only hope that people continue to be up in arms about this.
- [68:38]
Co-host 1
Yeah. So the purpose of this part three, after we heard from the victims or many of the prominent victims in part two, was to show you the prominent people in the file files, people who Are major doctors, major attorneys, worked under presidents, people who are still holding office. Yeah. And who are in these files and what actually has happened since these documents have have been released to the public. Yeah. So this part three was to really show you the prominent figures and people in our society who show up very often in these files, what they initially said about Epstein, what the files revealed, what they have said after and if there have been any consequences. Part four, we are moving away from prominent public figures and we are actually just getting into the sick revealed in these files. So part four is going to be much crazier. I think. Part three, we're really trying to keep it just to what's actually in the files about these people and let. Let the audience draw their own conclusions. Have it be just presenting the information. Part four, we're actually going to get into all the weird, sick, disgusting stuff.
- [70:00]
Co-host 2
Yeah. I think part four is going to be a lot more reading between the lines. So anyway, thank you for listening. We love you guys. And we'll be back on Friday.
- [70:10]
Co-host 1
Friday with part four. Bye. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.
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- [70:41]
Parent
Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?
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Child
Really?
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Parent
At a playground?
- [70:46]
Co-host 1
Yeah, really. Look at these listings from dealers.
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Parent
Wow, your search can really get that specific.
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Co-host 1
Really?
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Parent
And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget.
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Co-host 1
Mom needs a second.
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Parent
Honey, you can really have it delivered.
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Co-host 1
Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie.
- [71:03]
Co-host 2
Mommy's buying a car.
- [71:05]
Parent
I think your kid is walking up the slot.
- [71:07]
Co-host 2
Kyle.
- [71:07]
Co-host 1
Again? Really?
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Co-host 2
Autotrader.
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Co-host 1
Buy your car online? Really?
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