343: BLAKE LIVELY VS. JUSTIN BALDONI PART 10! Judge Liman Guts Blake’s Case… So Why Is She Celebrating?

Summary

Pop Apologists – Episode 343 Summary

Title: BLAKE LIVELY VS. JUSTIN BALDONI PART 10! Judge Liman Guts Blake’s Case… So Why Is She Celebrating?
Date: April 8, 2026
Hosts: Chandler & Lauren
Podcast: Pop Apologists

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Overview

In this episode, sisters Chandler and Lauren dissect the latest dramatic turn in the Blake Lively vs. Justin Baldoni lawsuit after Judge Liman issued a massive ruling dismissing 10 out of 13 claims—including all sexual harassment allegations—against Baldoni. Despite the ruling, Blake is, surprisingly, publicly celebrating. The sisters explore why she might be doing so, discuss the implications for sexual harassment law, and touch on related celebrity and reality TV news, with their trademark irreverent and candid banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Tone: Opening Chatter and Corrections

• The sisters begin with trademark playful banter, quipping about Chandler’s “funeral-like” opening tone and making lighthearted corrections from prior episodes.
• Correction 1: Misattribution of a Paige Desorbo Instagram post.
• Correction 2: A rumor about Carolyn Bessette Kennedy’s mother faking her own death is dispelled, leading to a comedic but meandering discussion about “faking deaths.”
  • Memorable Quote:
    "Are you really living if you haven't faked your own death at least once and started over completely?"
    – Chandler [06:13]

2. Kennedy Family Deep Dive Teaser

• Lauren proposes a summer series on the “Kennedy curse,” focused on women affected by the Kennedys. Chandler expands, referencing the book Ask Not.
• Highlights: Discussion of Mary Jo Kopechne (Chappaquiddick incident) and infamous Kennedy scandals.
• Memorable Moment:
  "We might need to do the series immediately because the stories are very intriguing.”
  – Lauren [12:28]

3. Summer House / Reality TV Updates

• Chandler recounts explaining the Summer House cast drama to their mother—a testament to how the show’s scandal has entered public consciousness.
• The sisters react to the City trailer, speculate on upcoming content, and reflect on how the drama has overshadowed even the Artemis moon launch.
• Quote:
  “Are the astronauts aboard the Artemis, like, also kind of mired in this? Cause, like, how could they not be? How could they even, like, leave Earth at a time like this?"
  – Chandler [15:25]

4. Main Segment: Blake Lively v. Justin Baldoni Lawsuit Update

A. The Judge’s Ruling (19:33–54:47)

• Judge Liman’s summary judgment (152 pages), dismissing 10 of 13 claims, especially all sexual harassment and related derivative torts.
• Only three retaliation-related claims remain for trial.
  • Legal Explanation:
    • Sexual Harassment Claims Dismissed: Because Lively was deemed not an employee but an independent contractor with substantial contractual control.
    • Jurisdiction Issue: While California law covers independent contractors for harassment, the events happened in New Jersey, which lacks such coverage.
• Key Analysis:
  The sexual harassment law is designed to protect structurally vulnerable employees, not co-equal creative partners like Lively.
• Reddit Excerpt (Read by Chandler):
  Details Lively’s level of creative and contractual control, underlining why she wasn’t an “employee” ([28:09]).
• Judge Lehman’s Reasoning (Quote):
  “Not only did she reserve substantial contractual control over her participation in the film, she exercised that control… She enjoyed the economic independence to walk at any moment… When viewed collectively, analyzing the factors eliminates any genuine dispute.”
  – Read by Lauren [38:23]
• The judge acknowledged that some conduct made Lively uncomfortable, but legally it didn’t qualify as harassment due to the lack of employee/employer power dynamics.
• Chandler’s Assessment:
  “It’s not a technicality…there was a lack of evidence. And if there had been enough evidence, this would have ended differently.” [34:47]

B. Reaction to the Ruling: Blake’s Response (41:32–49:24)

• Lively posts a celebratory note on Instagram, framing the defeat as a win for standing up, pivoting to focus on the “retaliation” claims.
• The sisters find this spin delusional and highlight a lack of self-awareness.
  • Quote:
    “It’s literally giving: You got broken up with, and you’re like, actually, I was gonna do this all along.”
    – Chandler [41:25]
• Blake posts Canva graphics with cherry-picked quotes from the judgment, including lines that, out of context, do not represent a legal win.
• Dragon Emoji Debate:
  The inclusion of a “dragon” emoji in Lively’s statement sparks speculation about meaning (Taylor Swift reference?).

C. Justin Baldoni’s Team Response (49:34–53:40)

• His lawyers express relief at the sexual harassment claim dismissals and readiness to defend the narrower case.
• The sisters predict Blake’s chances at trial are weak—the evidence for actual retaliation (“smear campaign”) is thin, and much of her reputational downfall was self-inflicted.

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5. Quickfire: Other Celebrity & Reality TV Moments

Meghan Markle’s New Gig: “It’s Her Best Life” Retreat in Australia (56:07–63:56)

• Tina Brown's substack analyzed: Are Harry and Meghan “scraping the bottom of the barrel” with a $3,000-per-seat “intimate luxury retreat” at a Sydney Intercontinental?
• Sisters calculate the math on Meghan’s payout; find it underwhelming for her supposed brand status.
• Tina Brown proposes the royal family should give them a role and a London base to prevent further embarrassment.
• Quote:
  “I think we’re looking at… she’s going to get on Cameo pretty quick here. It’s giving Cameo.”
  – Chandler [63:48]

Taylor Frankie Paul (TFP) Update (64:00–66:48)

• Chandler (fatigued) has unfollowed TFP, seeing her religious “rebirth” content as a PR rehabilitation attempt.
• News: TFP has a temporary restraining order against Dakota for domestic violence.
• Reflections on the unexpectedly dark tone of Utah’s influencer scandal.
• Chandler:
  “Blake Lively and her need to stop posting. They need to crash out privately somewhere else.” [66:04]

Housewives & Reality TV Wrap-up (67:07–68:47)

• Brief praise for the latest Ladies of London season—hosts declare it a must-watch and praise the cast’s authenticity.
• Promise deeper analysis and more tea on next "Global Elite" episode.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Chandler [09:30]: “That’s like one of [JFK’s] most famous quotes.”
• Chandler [23:03]: “We were kind of going off of vibes.”
• Lauren [27:16]: “I still genuinely believe she felt, I guess in her mind, sexually harassed. But now… the power dynamic did not exist…”
• Reddit Excerpt Read by Chandler [28:09–29:08]: Detailed rundown of Lively’s role as partner, not employee.
• Lauren [38:23]: Reading Judge Lehman’s core finding about Lively’s power and independence.
• Chandler [41:31]: “It’s literally giving: You got broken up with, and you’re like, actually, I was gonna do this all along.”
• Chandler [45:26]: “It is the most insane spin I've ever seen.”
• Chandler [63:48]: “She’s going to get on Cameo pretty quick here. It’s giving Cameo.”

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Structure of the Ruling: What Remains for Trial?

1. Sexual harassment, defamation, conspiracy, etc.: DISMISSED.
2. Remaining claims: Only retaliation (namely, the accusation that Lively was victim of a digital “smear campaign” orchestrated by the PR team/Wayfarer group) goes forward.
   • But evidence is weak; much public backlash stemmed from Lively’s own actions.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Legal Precedent: The judge’s ruling clarified sexual harassment laws are designed to protect structurally vulnerable employees. Independent contractors/creative “partners” like Lively are not covered.
• Blake Lively’s PR Tactics: Her public response, viewed as out of touch and self-congratulatory, is seen by the hosts as damaging her credibility.
• Celebrity Culture Analysis: The sisters apply the Lively-Baldoni case to broader reflections on how celebrities spin narratives, the vulnerability of legal claims in public opinion, and why some scandals dominate attention even over national events.

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Further Content Promised

• Kennedy Series: A summer podcast series deep-diving the women affected by the Kennedy curse.
• Additional Reality TV and Celebrity Content: Teased for future "Global Elite" episodes, including more on Ladies of London and Beverly Hills feuds.

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Episode in a Nutshell

• The Blake Lively lawsuit was, in legal terms, gutted (all sexual harassment-related claims dismissed). Publicly, Lively spins the ruling as a victory, focusing on her retaliation claims, but the hosts thoroughly debunk her narrative, analyze the judge's findings, and doubt her case's future.
• The sisters provide legal context, pop culture commentary, and characteristically sharp humor, making this episode an engaging, irreverent, and detailed breakdown of a headline-making celebrity lawsuit and its wider meaning in celebrity/legal culture.

Transcript

[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

Well, well, well, Chandler. We are gathered here today and it is a momentous episode on the Pop Apologist podcast. Thank you for being here with me.

[Chandler]

You need, like, a podium of some sort because you always kind of open the episode like we're starting a funeral or like we're at, like, the DNC or the rnc.

[Lauren]

Oh, really?

[Chandler]

Yeah. We are gathered here today.

[Lauren]

I mean, gathered here today is very much like Mormon lingo.

[Chandler]

You know, I think it's church lingo.

[Lauren]

It's church lingo. It's less, I would say, political rhetoric, which I do try to stay away from on this program.

[Chandler]

Yeah, definitely not getting into that today. I think we need to do one thing right at the top here.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

We need to offer up two corrections to the record.

[Lauren]

Yeah, it's important.

[Chandler]

I Think we've made grave errors.

[Lauren]

When we get things wrong, we need to admit to it. We need to take accountability, and we need to apologize.

[Chandler]

Yeah. So I'm gonna start off by saying that Lauren made both of these mistakes. Actually, I don't know, but we made the mistake of thinking that Paige desorbo posted on her main or liked something. Well, actually, no, I think we said that she posted something on her main that was Amanda Betula, swimmer in a trash can with two cats, sitting on her bed. And we were like, she's made her stance clear.

[Lauren]

Exactly. Listen, I think it's important as a business owner not to blame your employees for proffer. For mistakes, but this was written on the outline as something she posted, so I don't know that I'm not.

[Chandler]

Oh, so you are blaming kind of.

[Lauren]

I'm not fact checking everything on the outline. I'm assuming that if it's there, it's correct. So while I know that we are all human, we're all fallible, we make mistakes, I give myself a lot of grace here.

[Chandler]

Well, I'm so glad you're giving yourself a lot of grace. That sounds about right. I want to actually hold myself accountable because I should have done a little bit more critical thinking here. Been like, wow, that would be a pretty intense thing for her to do. Slash, like. So anyway, that's the first correction. The second correction is that Carolyn Bessette's mom is still alive.

[Lauren]

She is still with us, but apparently this is very intriguing. She potentially faked her own death.

[Chandler]

Okay, this is completely unsubstantiated. Are gonna have to issue so many redactions. Like, you guys see what I'm dealing with? No, I don't. I think she has just led an extremely private life. And I think there is an Ann Freeman who has died, and she's never

[Lauren]

corrected the record and been like, that wasn't me.

[Chandler]

I don't know that that makes her someone who's faked her own death.

[Lauren]

Faking her own death.

[Chandler]

Let's just think about that. Let's say I actually was just fantasizing about that. Not that I want to, but. Sorry. I was just thinking about how crazy

[Lauren]

that it's also just so impressive to pull that off. I once saw this true crime documentary about this guy, and he. I mean, it's really sad. He killed his whole family. And then he. I mean, I guess this is not faking his own death. But then he literally just disappeared. Like, he got completely away with it.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

He was this financier in France this was in early 2000s.

[Chandler]

Wow.

[Lauren]

He had four children and a wife. And anyway, they all died at his.

[Chandler]

He was murdered. He murdered.

[Lauren]

Sorry.

[Chandler]

He murdered them.

[Lauren]

Ostensibly. I guess everything was coming crashing down on him financially. They found all of them in the backyard and.

[Chandler]

Sorry, that was just like a grim turn. I know, I know.

[Lauren]

And a horrible image. And I'm not saying it, like, as a joke. Horrific. But he literally absconded into the. Into the landscape. Into the French mountainside.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I think people do it. I think it's hard to do now, but I think people do attempt to do that.

[Lauren]

But faking your own death, it really takes it a new, I guess, another level of impressive. Not that I think what he did was impressive.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Let's just completely get away from that story. Okay. We are now turning the page, and Lauren is just speaking in general terms. So nothing's related to that story.

[Lauren]

Correct. I think that faking your own death, though, is so much more. Is so much more impressive than disappearing. Because you have to have a cause of death, right?

[Chandler]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren]

And then also there has to be a body, you would think. And so how. Anyone who's gotten away with that, please write in. We would love to hear your story.

[Chandler]

I think we can go out on a limb and say that anyone who's listening to our podcast probably is sophisticated enough to fake their own death.

[Lauren]

Oh, okay. So everyone's fake their own death at least once to have an interesting life. You.

[Chandler]

I mean, I don't know, like, are you really living if.

[Lauren]

If you haven't faked your own death at least once and started over completely? That's a great question.

[Chandler]

Anyway, I mean, I think what I would think about the most is, like, you would get to see everyone who came to your funeral, which is kind of like a fantasy people. Because some people.

[Lauren]

This is becoming complete inane chatter. But you fake your own death, and then you also attend your funeral.

[Chandler]

That's from a disguise. From afar. Yeah. In disguise. Or like, you know, somehow, like, everyone who likes clicked.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

On the partifle. I don't think people are probably doing partifles for funerals, but anyway. Wow. What an amazing way to start this episode. What? Just. We're covering a lot of ground.

[Lauren]

All to say, though, I guess Carolyn Bessette is not as sophisticated. I mean, Carolyn Bessette's mother.

[Chandler]

Oh, here I was like. Oh, my gosh.

[Lauren]

New disclaimer. New Correction. No. Anyway, CBK's mom apparently is not as sophisticated as most of our listeners because she did not fake Roundup No, I'm just.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And she's still alive. I wish you would have just let me monologue and not gotten us into this hot water. I feel like I'm in quicksand and hot water, thanks to you. But anyway, everybody, those are our corrections, and we take full accountability.

[Lauren]

We do.

[Chandler]

We stand before you apologizing.

[Lauren]

Yes. One thing I want to share is I had an incredible idea for this program, which is we should deep dive all of the Kennedy women who have experienced the Kennedy curse.

[Chandler]

I think you're kind of doing a little revision to history. You said the Kennedy curse, and then I said we should deep dive all the women.

[Lauren]

No, no, Absolutely incorrect. I said we should deep dive the Kennedy curse.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

That is deep diving all the women

[Chandler]

who've been cursed, but there's also been Kennedy men. Like the assassinations. Like, the Kennedy curse also applies to the men.

[Lauren]

I only think about women, so I was only really thinking about the women.

[Chandler]

Okay. Blake Lively. Yeah, no, I. Sorry. Not to. Not to steal your thunder. I think that is an excellent idea to deep dive the Kennedys and, like,

[Lauren]

the whole Kennedy family.

[Chandler]

The whole Kennedy.

[Lauren]

No, I just want to do the women that they've ruined.

[Chandler]

Okay. I think we should start there. I think we could. I think there's just a lot there that could potentially go into the lives of the men, but I think the women is where we should start.

[Lauren]

And the Kennedy, like, deep diving the entire Kennedys. We'd have to change the podcast.

[Chandler]

Well, I hear you. I'm just saying there's, like. It's very rich. There's a lot to get into. And I'm the one who read the book Ask not before you. I mean, you haven't even read it yet, so you don't even know, like, the women.

[Lauren]

Not yet, but I think it could be a great series. Let us know if you'd be interested in that. I am excited about doing it. Also, I feel like pop culture tends to slow down in the summer, so it could be a good summer series.

[Chandler]

Absolutely. Yeah. Everyone, you should read that book Ask not, in preparation for this deep dive that we're gonna do, because I think that that'll be, like, great fodder for us.

[Lauren]

Ask not is about all the women whose lives have been devastated by the Kennedy men. Correct.

[Chandler]

Yeah. It Talk. Marilyn Monroe, Jackie Carolyn, Ted Kennedy's wife, RFK Junior's wife who's passed away.

[Lauren]

Is the idea, like, because they were all in politics. It's like, ask not what. What your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Is that like the whole. Is that what it's referring to?

[Chandler]

Of course. It's a play off of that. Off of that speech from jfk.

[Lauren]

Oh, JFK said that?

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know he said that.

[Chandler]

You didn't know he said that?

[Lauren]

I didn't.

[Chandler]

That's like one of his most famous quotes.

[Lauren]

I thought, like, Teddy Roosevelt said that or something.

[Chandler]

I mean, now I got a fact check myself.

[Lauren]

I feel like that was like a depression era quote.

[Chandler]

Famous line from John F. Kennedy's inaugural address on January 20, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Anyway, everybody, I am a scholar.

[Lauren]

Meanwhile, he's having, like threesomes at the White House.

[Chandler]

So, yeah, I think that the little rich. What the book dives into is just the way that the men in the Kennedy family were able to just do whatever the fuck they wanted and how it really, like, ruined the lives of these women and, like, ruined their mental health. And I mean, that's like putting it lightly, that's putting it in like, you know, 20, 26 terms. But, like, they really did a number on their wives and girlfriends because they did whatever they wanted and they literally, like, there's women who died.

[Lauren]

Well, I want to get into RFK's ex wife or not ex wife. Excuse me. Literally woman, late wife who killed herself over.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Anyway. Grim.

[Chandler]

Chappaquiddick. Anyway, there's a lot.

[Lauren]

Chappaquiddick.

[Chandler]

Mary Jo, who's Chappaquiddick? Chappaquiddick is a place where, I believe it was Ted Kennedy who was driving a car and he had like a young journalist in the car. And you don't know the story. Actually, I'm actually just gonna leave it there because Mary jokes.

[Lauren]

Let's give people a taste.

[Chandler]

Well, he, like, was driving a car late one night and he. It's like. It's like the Cape or something. It's, you know, people are gonna come for me, but it's. It's one of those towns.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

And I actually went there.

[Lauren]

I basically have not been to the Cape. We figured that out.

[Chandler]

We did figure that last night. But I have indent job. Aquatic. Anyway, he's driving a car and he. There's a young journalist in the back or in the front. I don't actually know where she was sitting, but he. He's with this woman. He's married. She's not his wife. And the car goes over a bridge, goes into the water, and he escapes the car. He leaves, she dies. He does not go for help until 3, 4 hours later. He has time to go back to his hotel. He goes back to his hotel. He calls, like, the family fixer.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. So it's full succession.

[Chandler]

Yes. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, I'll say I want to get her name right just because I,

[Lauren]

you know, Mary Jo.

[Chandler]

Mary Jo Capechi, I think, is how you say her last name. But yeah, she was, like, so young. It's really sad. So that that's covered in the book.

[Lauren]

And were they having a dalliance? Who can say?

[Chandler]

Who can say?

[Lauren]

Why were they out driving late at night?

[Chandler]

Yeah. And it's like, you don't. You honestly don't want to, like, get into that almost, because it's like, does that place more blame or fault? It's like at the end of the day, she was very much so alive when the car went into the water. And he could not get her free. And he did not immediately go for help. He went back to his hotel. He called several other people. He called, at least called the family fixer before he went to go get help. And, like, she could have been saved. Okay.

[Lauren]

We might need. We might need to do the series immediately because the stories are very intriguing.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I'll leave it at that. So anyway, can we move on, though?

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

To present day, please. So I get a call from mom this morning, actually, I called her, in all fairness. Called her. We're chit chatting, and you know, she's got a red light mask on. Sometimes she likes to be camera off. I don't blame her. But then sometimes she turns it on and she's always got a red light mask going. Also, apologies for my voice. I am a little sick.

[Lauren]

You sound completely normal.

[Chandler]

Well, great. But Mom's like, can you just kind of give me the two sentence, you know, backstory on these people online that everyone's talking about? And I'm like, West and Amanda. And she's like, yeah, I don't know who these people are. What's going on? I proceed to then tell mom for 10 minutes about everything from the scandal.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

I took a screenshot at one point because I'm holding up, like, the cast photo and I'm pointing out, this is Amanda. That's Kyle. She thinks Kyle's hotter than West. Okay. She's like her ex husband.

[Lauren]

She doesn't like any scruff.

[Chandler]

She really doesn't. Yeah, it's kind of a miracle. She's like.

[Lauren]

Or honestly, like, I feel like much bloat. Either.

[Chandler]

Scruff and blow. Yeah. Really don't sit well with her.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And yes, I give her the whole story and she's like, wow, west is really a slut. And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And then I'm like talking to her about.

[Lauren]

Did you show her how pretty Sierra is?

[Chandler]

Yes. Yes. I'm like, she's the most beautiful person to ever walk on God's green earth.

[Lauren]

And our mom is very shallow. It's where I get it for him. Like, looks like matter a lot to our mom and they weigh heavily in

[Chandler]

stories as well as your devotion to like, God and stuff. She's other priorities for, like, her children.

[Lauren]

She's a multifaceted, very dimensional woman.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

Who also appreciates beauty.

[Chandler]

She totally appreciates beauty. And she's not gonna hold back when she doesn't find somebody attractive. Usually it's men. She'll.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Anyway, she's just funny. She's just, you know, she just prioritizes the. The female gaze.

[Chandler]

Yeah. And I would say you do the same.

[Lauren]

Oh, yeah.

[Chandler]

It's a big priority.

[Lauren]

But I.

[Chandler]

What I said to her, though, about Sierra, I'm like, mom, you would really love Sierra because she doesn't really sleep around.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

I'm like, she talked about this on the show. She's not like some floozy.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

You know, she's not. She like, wants to be in a relationship before she's physical with somebody. And I didn't really get full buy in from mom because I didn't say, you know, she wants to be married. But I was just trying to appeal to moms sensibilities about those types of things. Mom's like, she's still a. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure mom still thinks that. But also, it's funny cause mom literally asked me for two sentences and I, like, came up for air after about, like the 10 minute mark.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

And I feel like nothing is worse than somebody just telling you about a situation that you have really no idea about for 10 minutes straight. But yeah, mom is team Sierra. As are we.

[Lauren]

And as are we.

[Chandler]

Yeah, we're still in the throes of it all.

[Lauren]

You know that this story has really hit mainstream public attention when. When our mother, who doesn't watch anything.

[Chandler]

Bravo.

[Lauren]

Is asking for you to give her the tldr. It's really. It actually is impressive.

[Chandler]

Like, are the astronauts aboard the Artemis, like, also kind of mired in this? Cause, like, how could they not be? How could they even, like, leave Earth at a time like this?

[Lauren]

I feel bad for Them because they are literally trying to get to the moon. Did they get there?

[Chandler]

I think they did. Okay, great. Yeah.

[Lauren]

I'm not following it that closely. I honestly have other matters that I'm interested in.

[Chandler]

I started following it closely two days ago.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

But I am not up to speed. I don't know. I think they have. I think they've done the moon.

[Lauren]

Clearly, no one's paying that much attention because all of our. All of our eyes are diverted to what's going on with the Summer House drama. So it really is impressive. And I will say, I now have seen the city trailer. I cannot wait. This looks so good to me. If they manufactured this just to drum up publicity for the show, it is working.

[Chandler]

No, they. Well, I know they for sure did not, because Sierra's a real person. She would never do that. But the city looks very good. And the city. I was already gonna watch it, but now, given everything, how good does the city look? And I'm like, have they already shot some of it? So are there gonna be even more new clues about Amanda Kyle West? I mean, I don't think west is on it, but I just. There's gonna be new data for us to, like, pick apart and unpack.

[Lauren]

I'm also excited to catch up with Lindsay. Cause she's not on this season of Summerhouse, is she?

[Chandler]

She, like, bops in and out, but not really. She's not like a main person.

[Lauren]

I think that this.

[Chandler]

It just looks very, very good. Yes, I will absolutely be watching. And I'm also curious to see what happens with Summer House. And we're gonna get the reunion. Like, where will the franchise go?

[Lauren]

No. So we are actually going to see this drama play out at the reunion. I'm probably just gonna tune in for the reunion.

[Chandler]

You're not gonna even watch, like, the episodes.

[Lauren]

It's all taped already. It's not gonna be for any of this drama.

[Chandler]

But the taped episodes reveal clues.

[Lauren]

I'll watch the clips of the clips. I'm sure the sluices are put together for me.

[Chandler]

You need to put your shoulder to the wheel.

[Lauren]

I'm sorry, I've just other. I've had other television that's just really gripping me like ladies of London.

[Chandler]

Yeah, we'll get to that.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

But anyway.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Chandler]

Before we fully dive into reality tv, we must. We must.

[Lauren]

You guys talk about the news of the week, the news of the month. If you are a longtime listener of this show. You know Chandler and I love early bird CBD gummies. And I will tell you why. Okay. They make you feel warm and tingly. They make you melt into your pillow. They make food taste more delicious. I love half an Early Bird. If I just want to relax after a long day and I'm not really feeling a glass of wine, I love Early Bird. In addition to a glass of wine, I love early bird. My husband Kagan, I swear to you, I would say at least once a week he'll be like where are the gummies before sleep? And he just knows that if he takes half our full gummy, he will drift off into a perfect blissful slumber. Early Bird CBD Gummies are perfect for hanging out with friends, going to dinner, or melting into your pillow as you enjoy a show and chuckle a little bit harder. Everyone go to earlybirdcbd.com and use code PA20 for 20% off your order. That's earlybirdcbd.com code PA20 for 20% off YOUR order. You will not regret trying out these gummies.

[Chandler]

This episode is brought to you by booking.com planning a girls trip always sounds fun until you remember you're booking for multiple people with very specific opinions. My sisters and I have non negotiables blackout curtains so we can actually sleep good natural light for all those photos and ideally something close to a beach. And just go ahead and trust me, we're not very flexible about these things. That's why Booking.com is our go to. Booking.com offers a wide array of hotels and vacation rentals across the US so you can find exactly what you're booking for. Even if the people you're booking for are extremely picky like us. You can filter for the things that actually matter instead of settling for something that's just fine. Whether you're booking for yourself, your partner

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

The News of the Week the News of the Month Blake Lively's lawsuit against Justin Baldoni has been devastated. Ten of her claims have been dismissed by the judge, Judge Lyman. Judge Lyman set out a hundred plus page 152 page Chandler. She comes with her receipts. I appreciate it. A 152 page summary judgment dismissing 10 of her claims. I would say the heart of the case has been dismissed.

[Chandler]

I mean the majority of the of the claims have been dismissed. There are only three remaining.

[Lauren]

There are three remaining. So basically the Heart of it. And I can kind of go into all of the. All of the claims that were dismissed. Just give a little legal summary.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

If that would be helpful, please. So all sexual harassment claims have been dismissed, and additionally, all the derivative claims. So defamation, civil conspiracy, failure to prevent harassment, and false light, invasion of privacy. These were all derivative claims of the sexual harassment claim, and they all fell apart when the underlying harassment claim was dismissed because they had no independent foundation themselves. They all relied on the harassment having taken place.

[Chandler]

Right. And what I'm learning is that I think this, like, summary judgment was kind of like it's before trial. The trial is set for May 18. It is like the judge taking a look at all the evidence that they have and determining, like, what. What has enough evidence to go to trial and to go before a jury so a jury can make the final call.

[Lauren]

Right. And when you actually read through, you know, the judge's reasoning, it's actually very evident. Like, what he's doing is he's really just kind of cleaning up the case before it goes through the jury, so it doesn't waste the course, the court's time. It's not like he can say, oh, I don't think this really happened. And so I'm not gonna let it, like, go through. It's really just about the law.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And he says, you know, there are reasons under the law that she could not have been sexually harassed. And what's kind of crazy about it is it's so black and white that you wonder how these claims even got to trial in the first place. And it makes you think that they were potentially baseless claims from the beginning.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I think that, you know, we have sat with this case for years at this point. We have gone through evidence, we've gone through court documents, everything.

[Lauren]

I mean, a year and a half,

[Chandler]

but, yeah, it feels like it's been my entire life.

[Lauren]

No, actually, I think it's been basically a year, because it all started. Yeah. In February 2024.

[Chandler]

Wasn't, like, end of 2024 when she filed the.

[Lauren]

The New York Times, February 2025. Oh, yeah, you're right, because we've been dealing with ends with it ends with US drama since summer of 2025. So we're almost at two years of it ends with US drama.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And you know what? Before that, we had the photo of her and the two pairs of pants and the beanie.

[Chandler]

We literally. I mean, our. Our damages go back to 2023.

[Lauren]

Those claims are not spurious. Chandler.

[Chandler]

No, 100% not.

[Lauren]

Judge Lyman would let us proceed to trial.

[Chandler]

Yeah. So it has been years. Okay. Felt like light years. Well, light years would mean it goes by fast. Well, but you know how, like, when it's like, it'll take 16 light years to get to, like, this planet, but it's really like a million Earth years or something.

[Lauren]

Oh, gotcha. Okay.

[Chandler]

Anyway. Dog years. Earth years. Light years. It's been fucking forever. What the.

[Lauren]

This case. Yeah.

[Chandler]

And you and I, we've sat with all the evidence, and there have been moments where we felt more convinced and less convinced.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

And so I think what's interesting about this judgment is that we really, like, are seeing the judge look at what. What true evidence is in front of him and honestly hold it up to the law. And you and I are not necessarily experts in the law, so we can kind of go. We were kind of going off of vibes. Like, we know.

[Lauren]

We were also reading the court documents,

[Chandler]

of course, but we weren't looking at, like, what constitutes actual sexual harassment, you know, under California state law.

[Lauren]

That is correct.

[Chandler]

That's what we weren't doing. And that this finally has happened.

[Lauren]

Now, that is the sword we kind of fell on, though, because when we read Jenny Slate's deposition and we determined that she felt she was very much, you know, she felt that Justin Baldoni was creepy and did make weird remarks, and it was not this situation where this whole thing had been fabricated. We did give Blake Lively's case a lot more credence because we didn't want to just be completely one sided. Right. And I actually think if you read this summary judgment Judge, is it Lehman or Lyman?

[Chandler]

I think Lehman.

[Lauren]

Judge Lehman comes to the same conclusion. If you read it, he absolutely says that in Blake Lively's mind, it is 100% possible, and most likely that she did feel that she was sexually harassed. Unfortunately for her, the facts of the case don't actually ladder up to the severity necessary to prove sexual harassment.

[Chandler]

Right. There's a threshold the evidence has to meet, and it did not meet that threshold. Whether or not she believes it was sexual harassment, it didn't meet the law threshold. And I think what we're gonna get into and what we should just, like, talk about now.

[Lauren]

Let's do it now.

[Chandler]

Is why it didn't meet that threshold. And I think these reasons are fascinating. So I think the biggest thing here, one of the biggest things is that she was an independent contractor. Yes.

[Lauren]

So apparently for sexual harassment to take place, you have to have someone, you have to be a subordinate. To an actual employer, because an employer has a lot of power over their employees. Employees depend on their employer to basically live. Right. That's their livelihood is working for their employer. So there is a very real power imbalance.

[Chandler]

The power dynamic has to be there.

[Lauren]

And if the power imbalance is not there, you don't get these protections under the law, because the law is set out to protect the vulnerable.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

And so.

[Chandler]

And I think one. One thing that I heard, I listened to several podcasts on this. I watched a lot of videos. I read a lot of, like, posts from lawyers and everything. I really tried to, like, let this information percolate. One of the things, you know, one of these experts said is that the sexual harassment law is not really to, like. It's not for people to litigate, like, you know, just, like, disputes between themselves about if one person felt uncomfortable, if that makes sense. It's about, like, somebody who's in a position of less power than another person and how they are protected by the law.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

It's not like it's. It's not for every single type of relationship to. It's not to cover all disputes. Exactly.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Because let's just imagine you are having a dispute, and you do feel like maybe a colleague is kind of coming on to you too much. It's a very different thing. I actually remember when I was working at a job and there was this one, like, co worker, it was at a company I worked for. He very much was, like, pursuing me, and it definitely was at a level where it was uncomfortable. If he had been my boss, the difference is I wouldn't have felt comfortable kind of like saying no. Like, it just would have been much harder to deal with that situation. But because he was not my boss, I had no fear of, you know, not being interested.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And I think that's a big piece of where this lies. Right. Is you're just put at such a horrible position when a boss is essentially coming on to you.

[Chandler]

Right. And I think that this goes into the retaliation claims because, you know, the person retaliating has to have power over you or has to have a way to retaliate against you in a meaningful way, because they're in a position of power over you.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

So anyway, not to get too, like, you know, into the details, but I think. I think that was really interesting. I did not know this, like, I did not know this perspective on the sexual harassment law until this case.

[Lauren]

No, neither of us did. And that's why, you know, when we were reading Blake's side of it and her deposition and Jenny Slate's deposition, we gave her case more credence. Cause I still genuinely believe that she felt, I guess in her mind, sexually harassed. But now we know the power dynamic did not exist between her and Justin for her to validly feel that way.

[Chandler]

And the reason why the judge uses her words against her, because she wrote this huge letter saying, please give me the PGA credit. Look at everything I did. And she really like says, I was like leading this film. I was a partner to Justin.

[Lauren]

She says, I rewrote the script, I facilitated, I had it moved, moved to a different location. I facilitated all of these problems being solved. And you know, she, she puts herself at the same level of the produce of the other executive producers and of Justin Baldoni.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I'm going to read this quote from a very astute person on Reddit, please. So they say let's focus on what the court actually found regarding her status, or lack thereof as an employee. The court correctly noted that Lively had contractual approval rights over the script, the director and her co lead before she was even bound the project. She had approval rights over the ad campaign, the release pattern, press releases, outtakes, behind the scenes footage, and her own double. During production. She led the location logistics, personally identified an onboarded crew, rewrote the script, managed department head meetings, handled the politics and HR concerns on set. And in her own words in a letter she wrote herself to the pga, served as Baldoni's quote, partner in all creative and logistical concerns. She was self, admittedly not his subordinate, not his employee. She was his partner. And that is giving her the benefit of the doubt. She certainly treated him with less respect than one would a partner. She was also simultaneously shooting another film while working on post production. Based on these factors and many more, the court found as a matter of law that no reasonable fact finder could conclude that she was an employee. She exercised far too much power for that.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And the other piece of this that's so crucial is she never signed the actor loan out agreement. And if we remember, she held out signing it. She had not signed this agreement by the time they went to the press tour. Right. So when she's going to walk the red carpet for the premiere up until that point, she's threatening to not promote the film if she doesn't get the poster design, if it's not her edit.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

She uses this as, you know, a chess piece ultimately in order to get her way every. Every step of the way.

[Chandler]

Not signing the contract.

[Lauren]

Not signing the contract exactly. But this has really come back to bite her, essentially, because what that did is it made her an independent contractor and not an employee.

[Chandler]

And within that, you know, contract that she never signed, there would have been some sexual harassment like, protections.

[Lauren]

So there was sexual harassment language in the ALA agreement, and her attorneys tried to cite that language in order to provide evidence for the case. And so this is what the judge says. The judge says, she contends that the ALA became binding on Baldoni and the producers at some point while the parties were still negotiating it. This is the judge's words, but she cannot pinpoint a time when the parties began to be bound by it or which version of the ALA they were bound to. Unless both parties are bound and neither party is bound. Which draft of the ALA bound Lively? Was it the version that lacked the sexual harassment provision? So this is also what's kind of interesting is I guess they were going back and forth about the language like her lawyers were. I remember this putting new language into the contract. And so the judge is saying, well, okay, you're saying that this agreement you never signed became binding, but you're not even, first of all, you never signed it. Second of all, which one? Right. And that language was critical in order for her to be able to cite the agreement as protective. Right, right.

[Chandler]

As like, hey, we signed this thing and you didn't, you know, hold up your end.

[Lauren]

Right. This was our agreement. So a lot of people are saying that this is a technicality. Okay. And they're saying that, you know, okay, so she was an independent contractor, so she doesn't have these protections. Well, actually, under California feha, independent contractors can sue for sexual harassment. But, but the judge said this was filmed in New Jersey. You can't actually be suing in this jurisdiction. So that's another problem with this case is that they're suing in a jurisdiction which has protections for independent contractors. But it was, you know, the sexual harassment that took place happened in New Jersey.

[Chandler]

And what I understand is that you can't. Yeah, you can't pick and choose which jurisdiction you want to, like, apply to your claims, obviously. And then there really wasn't even enough evidence there to kind of justify, like her trying to switch the jurisdiction or saying, well, some things did happen in California, so the law should apply.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

Like, it just wasn't strong enough from the get go to have California law cover it or any part of it.

[Lauren]

And there isn't, there isn't the same law in New Jersey in order to protect independent contractors. And the judge also says, I think what's important about the summary judgment is that he really gets into kind of all of it.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

So he talks about like all of the micro moments. It's pretty interesting to read, especially on page 111. Cause he gets into the dancing scene. He literally says what he thinks about the dancing scene.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Which is he thinks that they were acting like they were within their creative spaces as their characters.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And that, you know, that they were not. That Justin Baldoni was not acting in an inappropriate way towards Blake Lively personally.

[Lauren]

Yeah. He basically says, you know, that actors need to be able to feel that they have the creative license to work within the bounds of an agreed upon script. And everything he did in that scene, it was absolutely within what was written in the description on the script.

[Chandler]

Right.

[Lauren]

That they were lost in their own world. It was a romantic moment. And so the judge actually really comes to his defense. Now, the judge, if you go several paragraphs later, he says the comments he made about her appearance were not appropriate. And just because she might have referred to an outfit as sexy does not give him license to make, you know, whatever comments he wants about her body and about her physical appearance. He says Jenny Slate was offended. And he also, he cites, you know, messages she sent friends during the filming where she was saying to her friends, I'm creeped out by this guy. I find him to be weird. I find this to be an HR nightmare. So it's not like he is saying this is all fabricated and nonsense, but he just kind of goes line by line of the case and says where he thinks there's some truth and where he thinks that there, you know, it's kind of, honestly kind of bs.

[Chandler]

I think he's looking at it and kind of sifting through all the claims and, you know, saying in his judgments it might have felt like to her this was happening, but under this law that's not actually enough or this doesn't prove out to be sexual harassment. And so it's just, you know, that is not a technicality that is like, that to me feels like substantive. Like there was a lack of evidence. And I want to talk about the technicality issue, because I'm seeing that a lot. I'm seeing people commenting that, you know, and this was a substantive ruling. This was not like, whoopsie, you didn't file this. Right. Document.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Chandler]

So you're. The whole thing is tossed out. This is. There was a lack of evidence. And if there had been enough evidence, this would have ended differently. But there was not enough evidence. And they've had years to come up with this evidence to get their ducks in a row, and it just did not happen.

[Lauren]

Right. The judge basically says even if you take all of this collectively, it doesn't rise to the threshold of sexual harassment. Even if she was an employee.

[Chandler]

Yeah. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Money. Stress is one of those things that sneaks up on all of us. Like you're fine and then suddenly you're spiraling over a charge you forgot about. Or you're overthinking every purchase. Like it's life altering because it can feel that way. It can feel so, so stressful. A lot of us have habits or thought patterns around money that we don't even question, and they end up affecting how we feel more than we realize. And when you don't have a place to talk through that, it just sort of stays in your head and gets heavier and heavier. That's why having a space to talk through it actually matters. Therapy can help you unpack your relationship with money, manage the anxiety around it, and just feel a little less alone in the process. BetterHelp connects you with licensed therapists and does the matching for you so you can focus on what you actually need support with. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] popapologists that's betterhelp.com popapologists okay, if you were

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

And I'm gonna quote this astute Reddit post again. But it says calling this a technicality intentionally obscures these issues entirely. The holdings matter beyond this case because sexual harassment law is not an in. Is not an infinitely elastic tool for litigating difficult professional relationships between parties who are equal. That's this kind of what I was saying earlier. It exists to protect people who are structurally vulnerable, people who cannot say no, who cannot walk away, who cannot protect themselves without risking their livelihood. When that law gets deployed by someone who negotiated herself into a position of co. Equal creative authority, who had contractual veto power over the people allegedly harassing her, and who described the relationship herself in writing as a partnership, the damage isn't just to the defendant. It's to the law itself and the people it was built to protect. So this is why, like this ruling, it just has more to do with, like, the people it's actually supposed to apply to versus Blake. Yeah. And it's bigger than just her.

[Lauren]

No, absolutely. And so I want to read some quotes from Judge Lehman that apply here. So he says not only did she reserve substantial contractual control over her participation in the film, she exercised that control. She enjoyed the economic independence to walk at any moment, with the only consequence being that she would potentially be in breach of contract. And she exercised that independence in negotiating the terms under which she would return to work. Although not every factor weighs equally in favor of that conclusion when viewed in isolation, analyzing the factors collectively eliminates any. Any genuine dispute.

[Chandler]

I just think this is a situation where she couldn't have it both ways. She couldn't say that she had no power and then also say that, and then also, like, have this repeated, you know, pattern of having a lot of power. Yeah.

[Lauren]

And get the PGA credit.

[Chandler]

Exactly.

[Lauren]

I'm powerless when I want to sue Justin Baldoni, but I'm all powerful and omnipotent on this film when I want the PGA credit.

[Chandler]

Exactly.

[Lauren]

I think that also what's really tricky about this, and we discussed it earlier on the phone today, is, you know, when you think about her actually going to file this case, I do think there's a responsibility here for her attorneys to lay this out and say, you know, you had these experiences and you do want to sue this person, but this doesn't ladder up to what you're suing for. And I find it really hard to believe. And maybe she just had money hungry attorneys around her who were fine, to kind of ache her on and bill her handsomely, and that's completely possible. But there is, I think, a moment where even if she believed that he was creepy and all of those things. An officer of the court, you know, her attorney should have had the responsibility to tell her that you don't actually have a case here. And if that conversation happened, I do wonder about her decision to still press forward and if it's born out of narcissism, vengeance, delusion, all of the above. I don't think that she made all this up to try to ruin his life. I do believe that she thought all this happened to her. I just do think she bears some culpability, though, in bringing a suit against Justin Baldoni that is unfounded and going

[Chandler]

on with it for this long. Yeah, I completely agree with you. She does bear culpability, and it undermines the people who these laws really need to apply to and protect, and the people who are going to be scrutinized even further, you know, when they want to, like, bring up things that have happened to them.

[Lauren]

And I think that is really the most crucial point, because it's not a technicality when the heart of sexual harassment is power imbalance.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

And that is the point people are missing.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

So Blake has responded. Okay. To Judge Lehman on Instagram, and I think we should get into her response to 10 of her 13 claims being dismissed.

[Chandler]

This is where I. At the risk of repeating myself, it just. It continues to baffle me how she doubles down the doubling down here when I. You know, we're gonna talk about Taylor, Frankie, Paul a little bit later on, but, like, there are some people who need to log off.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

And just literally sit with. With their actions and just log off. But anyway, she decided to log on and post an extremely long statement followed by some beautiful Canva design. Pull quotes from judge. The judge's statement.

[Lauren]

I find this to be so funny. The Canva quotes and a judge literally striking down basically your entire case to try to make it seem like you love this ruling. It's honestly a level of delusion I aspire to.

[Chandler]

It's literally giving. You got broken up with, and you're like, actually, I was gonna do this all along. This was my grand plan.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

So let's read it. Do you want to popcorn it, or you want to just go?

[Lauren]

I'll start as popcorn.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

So Blake begins. I'm grateful for the court's ruling, which allows the heart of my case to be presented to a jury next month, and for the ability to finally tell my story in full at trial for my own sake, but also for those who don't have the same opportunity, many of whom I have known and loved deeply in my life in the countless. I'll never know.

[Chandler]

What I mean.

[Lauren]

She's just saying, like, people who can't stand up for themselves against sexual harassment.

[Chandler]

I know, I know, but it's like. But those are gone now. Like you. Those have. Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren]

Well, I guess anyone who's had a smear campaign. Yes, she probably does have friends who she feels.

[Chandler]

Sure, sure. Okay, Fair enough. The last thing I wanted in my life was a lawsuit. But I brought this case because of the pervasive retaliation.

[Lauren]

All caps.

[Chandler]

Retaliation I faced and continue to for privately and professionally asking for a safe working environment for myself and others.

[Lauren]

I hope the court's decision shows others that as unfathomably painful as it is, you can speak up. Don't be distracted by the digital soap opera. The constant packaging of this lawsuit as a celebrity drama is not only irresponsible, but it is by design to keep you from seeing yourselves in my story. Okay, so this all is about. Actually about retaliation for her. It's not about sexual harassment.

[Chandler]

This.

[Lauren]

That is the heart of it. Yeah.

[Chandler]

That's what she's saying, by the way.

[Lauren]

Retaliation is the smear campaign. That's the only thing going forward. Which we basically didn't even get to

[Chandler]

as we were discussing. We'll get to it.

[Lauren]

And I guess that is what she wants everyone to see in this story. Because all of us have had smear campaigns.

[Chandler]

And it's like, you should speak up or it's okay to speak up because I spoke up. And even though all like 10 out of the 13 got dismissed, like, I'm so glad I spoke up because this is what I wanted all along was to be able to speak up like

[Lauren]

this about a smear campaign.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Which I mean, how many people have to deal with a smear campaign?

[Chandler]

Let's finish reading this because I have so many things I want to say. She goes on, the physical pain from digital violence is very real. It is abuse. And it's everywhere, not just in the news, but in your communities and schools. If you're looking. My claims will be the first or last time you'll see examples of the extreme dangers of retaliation and digital warfare. And it often won't be directed at celebrities or those who may be able to speak up.

[Lauren]

It affects the all across the political spectrum. Pay attention to all the ways we can be manipulated online. Digital manipulation has been boasted as untraceable. If you have kids on phones, they are some of the most vulnerable.

[Chandler]

Girl, what are we doing? What are we talking about?

[Lauren]

She's I mean, she's all about the kids. This is really about protecting the children. Protect them, she says, have conversations with them.

[Chandler]

Studies estimate that's quoting for everybody. So studies estimate that between 16% and 58% of women have experienced online abuse or stalking, with 97% of gender based violence. Service providers reporting technology facilitated abuse in their cases.

[Lauren]

So much critical work has already been done to expose systems, tactics and players who harm. The work to create more safety is in part at trial, but it will also continue far after this trial is over. This is the work I'm most proud of.

[Chandler]

I couldn't begin to stand up if not for countless who have gone before me and the masses who are still around us all, creating laws, social change, sparking conversations, rallying, working privately and publicly, risking and sometimes losing everything for the safety of others in all spaces, some whose names we know and most we don't. Thank you, all of you.

[Lauren]

I will never stop doing my part in fighting to expose the systems and people who seek to harm, shame, silence, and retaliate against victims. I know it's a privilege to be able to stand up. I will not waste it. Dragon emoji, your support keeps me going. So she's apparently with, you know, the chief complaint, sexual harassment, being dismissed also, by the way, Justin Baldoni as an individual is now no longer a party in this lawsuit. It's literally Wayfair and the PR team he hired, that's who's left as defendants. Yeah, Justin Baldoni is done.

[Chandler]

He's done. He's like off the hook.

[Lauren]

And she is like loving this.

[Chandler]

She's like thrilled at the opportunity to continue. Like, it is the most insane spin I've ever seen because I think it would have been pretty powerful for her to say, while not all of my claims, not all of the things I experienced were, I don't know, were recognized by the court. I am, you know, very much so looking forward to, you know, the being able to tell my side of the story with retaliation or something like that. But there's just no self awareness in this.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And I think that that is where she becomes an unreliable narrator.

[Chandler]

Of course.

[Lauren]

Yeah, she. If she wanted us to believe what she's saying, she should have been real and said. I find it to be devastating that the sexual harassment I feel I endured will no longer go to trial. However, the retaliation is still extremely important and I look forward to my day in court. Okay, we believe you. We believe that you believe.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

You know, but this, this essay, basically championing herself as such a fighter for

[Chandler]

victims, it's like, this is a victory day for us.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Chandler]

It's a rallying cry.

[Lauren]

It doesn't do her any favors. I believe in the court of public opinion. So then she cherry picks some quotes from the ruling, pops them in Canvas. Okay. Control v. In Canva. Excuse me. And create some beautiful graphics. The first is the quote. Lively has come forward with affirmative evidence supporting her claim, both with respect to the Wayfarer parties following through on their intent to spread negative content about her and with respect to Wallace's technological capabilities in doing so.

[Chandler]

Okay, so this one makes sense because the retaliation, you know, claims are moving forward. She has evidence supporting that claim. There are emails or text messages that make people think that this was a targeted effort.

[Lauren]

What was the text? We can bury anyone.

[Chandler]

We can bury anyone. That was like, the headline of the New York Times article. So this makes sense. This is fine. I want to get to this one that. This one that's, like, four over. It's like, the fourth or fifth. It says, viewed in the light most favorable to Lively, there is also sufficient evidence that it was reasonable for her to believe that the Wayfarer party sexually harassed her by creating a hostile work environment. Which is basically just saying, if you believe everything she's saying exactly as she said it in the most favorable way, you would believe that she had been sexually harassed. It's like, it just doesn't. This is not.

[Lauren]

It's literally like saying, if you believe everything she said, you'll believe what she said. Well, yeah, duh. If you believe everything she said.

[Chandler]

I just think these quotes. I think this entire response, holistically, I think, just shows like, we are not. There's no reality check happening here. It is just like, yep, this is exactly the way we want it to be. And thank you, everyone, for supporting me.

[Lauren]

Yeah, honestly, it's the height of delusion. Justin Baldoni's team has responded, so his lawyer.

[Chandler]

Okay, before we get into Justin Baldoni's response, though, we have to discuss the dragon emoji. This is an intentional choice, of course. Like, this is like, she's out to lunch.

[Lauren]

She's insane to use the dragon emoji.

[Chandler]

She knows exactly what she's doing. And I feel like it's her saying, we're good. Taylor and I are good.

[Lauren]

I think she's saying. I think she's fully just saying. She's like, if you feel like you've been retaliated against, I'm your dragon. I don't think she's saying, Taylor and I are good. She's like.

[Chandler]

But. But why would you use the dragon emoji? Why would you use the dragon emoji? Because, like, you know that that is the word dragon will be. Will forever be associated with her. Text messages now. Well, about Taylor.

[Lauren]

The story did have the song canceled as playing on this.

[Chandler]

You're.

[Lauren]

No, no, I'm just kidding.

[Chandler]

Good thing.

[Lauren]

Don't tease me like that.

[Chandler]

She would have to be so. No. There's no world where she, like, is like, I'm gonna choose what's. What's like, what's a powerful emoji that I'm gonna end this with. And then she chose dragon on purpose.

[Lauren]

There's no world. There's no world where she doesn't want people to believe that her and Taylor are good. Right.

[Chandler]

Which is why she's choosing this emoji. It is, like, all part of the plan.

[Lauren]

Yet anyone can see they have not been pictured together since all this went down. Are they actually good? My eyes would lead me to believe that Taylor doesn't want to be seen with her. Okay. And that she's not her dragon. Okay, let's get into Justin Baldoni's team's response. Yes. So Alexandra Shapiro and Jonathan Bach, two of his attorneys, said they were pleased Judge Lehman dismissed the sexual harassment claims. They say they were. These were very serious allegations, and we're grateful to the court for its careful review of the facts, law, and voluminous evidence that was provided. What's left is a significantly narrowed case, and we look forward to presenting our defense. Defense to the remaining claims in court. Brian Friedman is also weighed in saying that the defense in this case are not afraid of the truth. The plan is not only to speak the truth, but also to show that same truth over and over again through the presentation of actual evidence. It is gratifying to see the court's ruling confirms what the legal team believed from day one.

[Chandler]

So we know that they had a settlement conference, I believe yesterday after this ruling came out. I think the magistrate judge kind of said, okay, now that, you know, the dust is settled and these are the claims that are actually going forward in the trial. You know, let's come together and see if you can settle again. Because this is a very different trial than it was, you know, before this, you know, ruling came out. I don't think they reached anything. You know, we didn't hear hear back. And the trial is still set to move forward May 18 based on these three claims that are still left.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And I think what's going to be difficult for Blake is that, you know, her case really rests on the idea that they concocted this full smear campaign. And I do think he has the very credible defense that he saw that she was going to try to paint him as an abuser and a harasser based on the implicit threats in the list of demands to go back to set. And he hired Crisis PR when he saw the entire cast siding with Blake Lively when he was in the basement during the premiere. He knew what was happening, what was

[Chandler]

coming down the pipeline.

[Lauren]

Yeah. He knew that people were gonna deduce that they were not on good terms. And so it would be completely normal to hire Crisis pr. Now, that PR team, they can have the ability to bury anyone. Right. They can have that technology. My question is, if the technology was never deployed because you were such a fool during the publicity of the film, you used it to promote your hair care products. Okay. You used it for a bunch of glam photo shoots with a floral motif. You know, and everyone basically was icked out by your lack of concern for domestic violence. If she buried herself and they didn't actually need to deploy that technology, even if a smear campaign was in the works or possible. Did it actually happen?

[Chandler]

Well, that's exactly it. Because, you know, the things that gained the most momentum on the Internet that led to this idea of a smear campaign or all this negative press for her were things that she did herself

[Lauren]

even before the film.

[Chandler]

You know, that interview. Congrats on your little bump. Like, these things had nothing to do with. It ends with us.

[Lauren]

But again, and it all came back to her actions. Trying to promote her alcohol line, using the press tour about a DV film in order to prop up her own vanity and her own band business interests. That's what the public found to be really off putting.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

So I think that moving forward, it is not a slam dunk case for her. And there were those internal text messages between Justin's PR team, basically saying she's done this to herself.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

We didn't have to do anything.

[Chandler]

Literally, we didn't do anything. That's just like, you know, took off like wildfire. Yeah.

[Lauren]

So I. Good luck, girl.

[Chandler]

I do think this mere campaign could have potentially been in the works or been, you know, just, you know, just maybe beginning to get it to, you know, getting outlined. And then all of this took off faster than they could have even imagined.

[Lauren]

Right. But again, I don't know.

[Chandler]

It's like, did they light the match?

[Lauren]

If you.

[Chandler]

Is it about that?

[Lauren]

If your retaliation plan never actually came to be and not saying he planned on retaliating. Right. Like he's allowed to protect himself. I. I think she's gonna have a much harder day in court. So anyway, we will obviously continue reporting on this program.

[Chandler]

I think retaliation is going to be hard to prove.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I think it is.

[Chandler]

It is hard to prove already. Especially like who was doing it and what was just the Internet being the Internet.

[Lauren]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chandler]

So, yeah, I mean, it's gonna be crazy. I will be very shocked if they like fully go to trial.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Because even though she says, oh, I'm looking forward to testifying, you know, that's bs.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

She doesn't want to take a stand.

[Chandler]

Yeah, absolutely not.

[Lauren]

No celebrity wants to be under oath, on the record, with, with reporters, you know, court sketch artists. She can make herself look like a total fool under cross.

[Chandler]

It's gonna be a circus.

[Lauren]

So I do not buy that she is still looking forward to this. Okay, I wanna talk really quickly about. Can we move on?

[Chandler]

Yes, please.

[Lauren]

I wanna talk about Meghan Markle.

[Chandler]

Okay, really quickly. Yes.

[Lauren]

If you're one of those people who frequently has business ideas, especially that involve E commerce, you need to understand that Shopify will help you bring your vision to reality in such a doable, incredible way. It is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses and 10% of all E commerce in the US so whether you're just starting out or already selling, it's built to handle all of it. They have hundreds of templates so you can build a website that actually matches your vibe without needing to be a designer. And they have built in AI tools that help with product descriptions, headlines and even photos. Photos. What I also love about Shopify is that everything is in one place. Inventory, payments, analytics, all of it. And Shopify helps you run email and social campaigns so people can actually find you. I can tell you there are two experiences when you're shopping. There's one that's extremely annoying where you have to put in all of your card information and fill out a form to check out. And there's one that's seamless and takes a few clicks. The seamless one is guaranteed powered by Shopify. See, less cards go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com pop go to shopify.com pop that's shopify.com pop I actually want to read to you something from Tina Brown substack.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Please take it away. Okay. So in Tina Brown, she founded the Daily Beast. Tina Brown is incredible. She was.

[Chandler]

We love Tina Brown.

[Lauren]

We love Tina Brown.

[Chandler]

Papers.

[Lauren]

Yeah. If you don't know who Tina Brown is, I urge you to Google. Anyway, so she has a substack called Fresh Hell and she wrote an article called Are the Windsors Underestimating the Sussex Problem? And I just want to read you the last excerpt. Basically, she talks about how, you know, now that Meghan and Harry are kind of at the end of the road of all their business endeavors. Netflix has dropped them to a first look agreement, downgraded them. Also, Netflix has exited as a partner on as ever. It really begs the question, what kind of jobs are these people now going to have to take? And there has been this report that Megan is going to be part of this retreat. Okay.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

In Australia. Take us to this retreat. Or $3,000. I would think, honestly, for Megan to be part of a retreat, that's like a 20k minimum seat. Oh, you type.

[Chandler]

Three grand is not expensive.

[Lauren]

Not. I think that I would assume for her to actually participate, be there in the flesh, that she would be. Need to. She would need to be paid millions of dollars. Now, if this is at a stadium.

[Chandler]

Yeah, I think it depends on how many seats. Are we talking, like, you know, is this msg?

[Lauren]

I do not think that this is a large gathering.

[Chandler]

So this is like.

[Lauren]

This is a low rent. This is a low rent gig.

[Chandler]

Okay. I think it all depends on the venue. Can we look up where the venue is?

[Lauren]

Look it up. But they're apparently, from what I read, this is not a huge thing.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

And I find this to be very concerning. And so does Tina, because Tina's basically saying this reminds her of what Fergie got up to once her and Andrew divorced. Oh, really? Yeah, she just started taking all these kind of like shitty gigs. And Tina questions like, if Harry and Meghan are now kind of scraping at the bottom of the barrel. And also, you know, we all think of them as living in white cashmere and Montecito. But to Harry and Meghan, they are poppers compared to their friends.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Right.

[Lauren]

Okay. They don't have a pj. They don't have. They do not have the lifestyle of their billionaire friends. And so basically what she says is that they're going to become a bigger and bigger risk to the monarchy as they are forced to do lower and lower gifts.

[Chandler]

Right. As they kind of like bring shame a little bit on, you know, the family name with their, like, it's not even hustling.

[Lauren]

It's less that and it's more like okay, well, what are they going to now sell as a story, as a new book? I mean, because they don't want to have to be on the Real Housewives of Lucido.

[Chandler]

Okay, I just did a little bit more research on this. So it's called It's Her Best Life is what the title of the retreat is. It looks like it's happening in just a couple of weeks. Friday, April 17 to Sunday, April 19. And it's at a Intercontinental Hotel, I believe, in Sydney.

[Lauren]

Okay, does that sound.

[Chandler]

But it says, an intimate luxury weekend by the ocean designed to bring women together for powerful conversations, relaxation, laughter and unforgettable experiences. And then the whole headlining thing is a Q and A with Duchess of Sussex.

[Lauren]

Okay, Intercontinental Hotel. I mean, do you have any inkling how many attendees?

[Chandler]

It doesn't say.

[Lauren]

I can't even get like.

[Chandler]

I mean, should I look at how many people can fit in the ballroom of intercontinental? Hot.

[Lauren]

I mean, let's just do some basic math. Okay, if it's $3,000 a seat, how much of that is going to go to Megan, the headliner? They have to pay for logistics, the, you know, event insurance. They have to pay for just all of the overhead. And then they have to have a fee for Megan. Like, what is Megan making from this to make it worth her while? I gotta say something. This is really not a, like a nice hotel. It's not a craziness. I mean, how much is it a night? The Intercontinental in Sydney?

[Chandler]

You guys, I thought this was gonna be like at like a Four Seasons or something. It's like it's sub 400, which is,

[Lauren]

which is fine, but it's not. This is what I'm saying. This is like kind of.

[Chandler]

Well, I also, I just think of the fact that it's like a chain hotel. It's like Sheraton.

[Lauren]

Yes, exactly.

[Chandler]

A Hilton.

[Lauren]

So Megan is. Now I'm not at a Sheraton ballroom. Yes, probably with maybe Max. Several hundred women. Yes.

[Chandler]

So, yeah, I think, I think this math does check out as. This is a. This is her taking a low rate gig.

[Lauren]

So let's just consider. Let's just say there's 200 women. Is this a 3,000 person event? So that is what? 600,000. Okay, what's 2,000 times 300? 3,200.

[Chandler]

What?

[Lauren]

I'm sorry, what's what's 200 times 3,000?

[Chandler]

6,000. 600,000.

[Lauren]

600,000. Okay, so let's just imagine, let's say at maximum, half goes to Megan. So this is a $300,000 check for

[Chandler]

a Q and A.

[Lauren]

That doesn't even cover the private jet to and from Montecito to Australia.

[Chandler]

Oh, yeah. She's not flying private to this.

[Lauren]

They are now entering a different sphere.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Of projects. Okay.

[Chandler]

Yeah. Wow. I mean, the math is crazy here. The math.

[Lauren]

And then she also has to pay taxes. Gavin Newsom's, like, upper ass.

[Chandler]

I mean, that is staggering. When we. When we actually run the numbers, when you and I get out our little calculators. And. Yes, that's staggering.

[Lauren]

It really, really is. Especially when you just consider her lifestyle.

[Chandler]

Should we look at what the ballroom looks like?

[Lauren]

Okay, so I just want to read what Tina says.

[Chandler]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Okay. So this is what Tina says is a solution for the monarchy, for King Charles and William. So he says, before the Sussexes crash and burn, the House of Windsor needs to put aside schadenfreude and grip the problem. Give Harry and Meghan a limited international role. Cough up a turnkey, pied a terre for them in Buckingham palace, where none of the rest of the family wants to live anyway and pay their damn UK security bill. It won't be a good look if Harry, a veteran of two tours of Afghanistan, is taken out by a nut job. In return, the Sussexes must put a sock in it. As for the press's obsession with the brotherly reconciliation and forgiveness, forget it. For 70 years, Queen Elizabeth II spent her reign smiling tightly at people she couldn't stand. So basically, they need to welcome them back.

[Chandler]

Yeah, yeah, it's time.

[Lauren]

It's time. Yeah, it's time. Unless you want to see them. Like, desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Chandler]

And I think this is a great distraction from the Prince Andrew. It's like, let's turn the page on Prince Andrew. You know, he's now freed up some, you know, some living spaces in the, you know, the dwellings around England. And they can come back and let's just. Let's be one big happy family.

[Lauren]

I will say the opposing thought to this is that Meghan would never agree. She would never agree to a little apartment in Kensington or, I'm sorry, Buckingham Palace. Because if you remember, Frogmore Cottage wasn't good enough for her. Yeah. Ye. So you guys are really.

[Chandler]

It's not a cute name. That's what I'm gonna say. Frogmore. They gotta rename that Frogmore.

[Lauren]

Not caught. Not. Was it Nottingham Cottage?

[Chandler]

So anything's. But Frogmore is just not cute at all.

[Lauren]

I mean, they renovated it. They should give them.

[Chandler]

Just rename it. Sorry. I mean, I'm probably Gonna get some Royalists. Like some.

[Lauren]

Yeah, this is. I will say, this is just going to get more room, more interesting. Oh, you looked it up. How's the ballroom look? Not good.

[Chandler]

I mean, it's just like not good.

[Lauren]

Bitch. This is getting bleak, by the way. There's nothing wrong with a hotel that's sub. $500 a night. If anything, that's my preference. Okay. Yeah, of course we want to spend a less amount. We're talking about the Duchess of Sussex. Okay.

[Chandler]

I think. I think we're looking at like she's going to get on cameo pretty quick here.

[Lauren]

It's giving cameo.

[Chandler]

It's giving cameo, yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay, moving on, moving on. Tfp.

[Chandler]

Tfp. TFP has, you know, been posting Taylor, Frankie Paul.

[Lauren]

She's been posting. She absolutely has.

[Chandler]

She's been posting about her religious journey and I'm so sick of it. I unfollowed her.

[Lauren]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Chandler]

I'm just like. I mean, let me back up a little bit. I can see the. The engine, the content engine at work and the rehabilitation of her image happening, and I don't wanna see it. I'm not here for it. I'm not ready. I don't want it. I don't wanna hear about her religious journey and why she's stepping away from Mormonism, but why she's still so religious and why Jesus is like. Is everything.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I don't wanna see it. I gotta say, I think in downtown Salt Lake right now, there is panic because there's nothing the Mormon Church wants less than Taylor, Frankie Paul distancing herself and her brand from.

[Chandler]

No, they're thrilled. They're like.

[Lauren]

No, they're.

[Chandler]

They're thrilled.

[Lauren]

They are. Hillary Clinton and Obama, they're in the. What's the. It's called the Situation Room. They're in this. They're.

[Chandler]

No, they're stoked on this. I mean, I would be surprised if they didn't release another statement.

[Lauren]

It was like, so Obama and Hillary Clinton looking at the screen, but they're looking at Taylor Frankens, all the general

[Chandler]

authorities looking at Taylor, Frankie Paul's Instagram story about.

[Lauren]

She wants to distance herself. Oh, no.

[Chandler]

Yeah. No, they're good. They're like, Sounds good. Like, don't let the door hit you

[Lauren]

on the way out.

[Chandler]

Like, no problem, no problem. I mean, what do you think?

[Lauren]

I think that it's all very calculated. I think that she is trying to rehab her image as well.

[Chandler]

It's too soon.

[Lauren]

It's too soon.

[Chandler]

It's also just.

[Lauren]

I don't buy it.

[Chandler]

No, I just don't buy it.

[Lauren]

She's also learning the piano. I definitely think she's going hard in the paint to try to rehab her image. And I feel like she must have some pressure by people who are writing, who have some big checks writing on her to kind of have the court of public opinion rule in her favor very swiftly. But really, she should take a step back.

[Chandler]

She needs to be offline. Blake Lively and her need to stop posting. They need to crash out privately somewhere else. Dakota, I guess, will be edited out of the Vanderpump Villa season.

[Lauren]

Also, Taylor, this is News of Today, has a temporary restraining order against Dakota, accusing him of domestic violence. It's like we thought we were getting a reality series about girls with hair extensions going to swig and drinking dirty Diet Cokes, you know, with extra coconut. And really, we were getting Maori now.

[Chandler]

Maury.

[Lauren]

Maury.

[Chandler]

No, we are getting, like, it's giving way more than we bargained for. And it's more grim and it's darker because it's all, like, happening on her phone. I don't know.

[Lauren]

It's just kind of like people turning on pop apologists today. And it's starting with the French man story.

[Chandler]

Yes. 100%. Yeah.

[Lauren]

It's like, we didn't sign up for this.

[Chandler]

We didn't sign up for this. I mean, I don't know. I'm just. I'm at your same point. I'm fatigued. I don't want to see her on Instagram right now.

[Lauren]

I'm kind of honestly good with a sloa breather.

[Chandler]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Cuz I. It's just been a lot of slo content. Ladies of London is so good. We don't have enough time to discuss right now, but you guys, it is so good. I think you could literally jump in and just watch this most recent episode.

[Chandler]

I mean, no, you should definitely start at the beginning. Start at the beginning. I think what I'm loving about it is, like, they're all characters. We are not getting, you know, a sanitized cast of people who are afraid to, like, say the wrong thing on camera.

[Lauren]

Not only that, but when they're fighting with each other, they. It's like watching comedians fight with gorgeous accents. Like, it's like, darling, you wouldn't have worn this feather jacket if you didn't have some venom in you. Right, Right. Like, it's just like, they're so funny even as they're fighting.

[Chandler]

It's the caricatures.

[Lauren]

All Stars. All stars. These people might even give Salt Lake a run. For their money.

[Chandler]

I agree. I totally agree. Okay. I mean, there's like a.

[Lauren]

Our friends with people on the cast.

[Chandler]

We love salt. LA want all of it. But I'm just saying that they are bringing it. It's not a competition.

[Lauren]

It's not even bringing it, actually. Oh, my gosh. They. It's Chandler. They. You're gonna have the chills. They don't need to bring it because they have it.

[Chandler]

They have it. Wow. Really good. Really good. I don't have the chills, but that was good. So, anyway, we will get into, like, maybe more of the specifics of that drama when we talk about Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and, you know, the big fight.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

Last night in Italy. We'll get into all of that on this week's Global Elite episode.

[Lauren]

And we're gonna obviously be spilling the celebrity tea. It's not gonna just be reality tv, you guys. It's never been a better time to become a Global elite. You will also get access to our Kennedy series when it arrives. And Friendship Feuds has come. Celebrity Feuds is coming this month as well.

[Chandler]

Yes.

[Lauren]

Okay. Love you guys so much. Thank you for listening. And we'll be back on Friday. Bye.

[Chandler]

Bye.

[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Lauren]

Never.

[Chandler]

Hey, quick question. Why do you keep thinking you can change that man? I mean, you are not his mother. Let someone else change that poopy D

[Lauren]

diaper and focus on yourself.

[Chandler]

Hi, everyone. I'm Violet Benson, your Russian Vic sister and almost adulting Violet Benson. I give you that tough love, dating advice and reality checks that you didn't ask for, but you absolutely need. We talk relationships, confidence, mental health, boundaries, and how to finally stop settling for crumbs. You deserve better, babe.

[Lauren]

And it starts with me.

[Chandler]

So new episodes every Thursday. Come hang out with me.

[Lauren]

Follow rate and review Almost Adulting. Wherever you get your podcast, your home holds the story of your life. Renewal by Andersen Windows are built to weather Every season with you. They frame the little moments and the big ones. From first steps to graduation to new beginnings. While life keeps moving our window Stand strong through every chapter. Let Renewal by Andersen be part of your story. Windows Built to last visit renewalbyandersonhome.com to learn more.