Divorce Drama, Family Secrets, and Dad’s Wildest Attorney Tales 🥂

Summary

Pop Apologists: Divorce Drama, Family Secrets, and Dad’s Wildest Attorney Tales 🥂

Release Date: May 14, 2025
Hosts: Lauren and Chandler
Guest: Their Father, a seasoned family law attorney

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt bonus episode of Pop Apologists, Lauren and Chandler invite their father to join the conversation, delving deep into topics of divorce, family dynamics, and the intricate world of family law. Despite initial technical difficulties leading to subpar audio quality, the sisters ensure listeners can still glean valuable insights from their father's extensive experience and personal anecdotes.

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Introducing Dad: A Veteran Family Law Attorney

The episode kicks off with Lauren and Chandler apologizing for the audio issues, explaining that this special installment features their father, an esteemed family law attorney with over 33 years of practice ([09:46]).

Chandler ([09:46]): "Our dad is an esteemed family law attorney with over 33 years of experience."

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Raising Confident and Successful Children

One of the primary discussions revolves around effective parenting strategies to nurture confident and successful children. Their father emphasizes the pivotal role their mother played in this journey.

Dad ([04:23]): "Your mother is probably the biggest factor in all of that. She is a very sharp person and does not miss much."

He highlights the importance of reading to children, fostering social skills through community involvement, and instilling a strong moral compass.

Dad ([07:15]): "We raise you girls in a faith, and the community raises the child. There's a lot of good that comes from raising your kids with a set of values."

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Insights on Divorce and Family Law

Drawing from his legal expertise, their father offers a candid look into the complexities of divorce.

• Court Interventions in Naming Outrageous Names:
  When asked if courts can step in when parents name their child something unconventional, he clarifies that while such names might raise eyebrows, courts rarely intervene unless there's clear harm.

  Dad ([10:04]): "But, yeah, I've never seen where the judge... is a bad reflection on the parents."

• Handling Misrepresentation of Income in Divorce Proceedings:
  Addressing deceit in financial disclosures, he advises swift legal action to rectify any fraud, emphasizing the absence of strict time limitations on such actions.

  Dad ([11:13]): "Some people have to put down their income under penalty, perjury."

• Attorney Integrity in Family Court:
  He candidly discusses the prevalence of dishonesty in family court, urging clients to trust their instincts and seek reputable attorneys.

  Dad ([16:21]): "If you find a bad attorney, you've got to fire them. This process is already expensive and difficult enough without a bad relationship with your attorney."

• Impact of Divorce on Children:
  Highlighting the emotional toll on children, he stresses the importance of minimizing conflict to preserve their childhood innocence.

  Dad ([31:06]): "Your kids never get their childhood back."

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Personal Stories and Anecdotes

Their father shares engaging and sometimes wild stories from his legal career, showcasing the unpredictable nature of family law.

• Pursuit of Stolen Property:
  Recounting a dramatic chase to recover a client's possessions, he describes a high-stakes pursuit involving multiple cars and unexpected police interactions.

  Dad ([55:07]): "We were following them... the police come out and they say, hey, these people are following us."

• Encounter with a Celebrity Attorney:
  Describing a humorous encounter with an extravagant attorney, he illustrates the diverse personalities within the legal profession.

  Dad ([53:16]): "She had a pair of boxing gloves in a frame, as if she was representing Mike Tyson or whatever."

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Career Advice: Following Your Passion at Any Age

Transitioning from legal insights, the conversation shifts to personal development and career choices. Their father shares his journey of becoming a lawyer at 30 years old, highlighting that it's never too late to pursue one's dreams.

Dad ([35:13]): "I didn't start law school until I was 30. People told me I was too old, but we made more money than I was making from my previous job in the first month."

He encourages listeners to chase their dreams irrespective of age, emphasizing the importance of passion and fulfillment in one's career.

Dad ([39:24]): "Do what you want to do. Life is not a dress rehearsal."

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Relationships and Marriage Advice

The episode also delves into maintaining healthy relationships and the significance of mutual respect and support within a marriage.

• Prenuptial Agreements:
  Offering guidance on fair prenups, especially when one partner is less financially endowed, he advises securing competent legal representation to ensure equitable arrangements.

  Dad ([41:40]): "Get a decent attorney. Don't try and overreach."

• The Essence of a Happy Marriage:
  Reflecting on longevity and happiness in marriage, he underscores the value of love, communication, and shared goals.

  Dad ([60:28]): "The greatest happiness you can have in your life is having one person you really love who you build a life with."

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Conclusion: Embracing Family and Personal Growth

Wrapping up the episode, Lauren and Chandler express their gratitude for their father's wisdom and the strength of their family bonds. Their father reiterates the importance of loving and supporting one another, celebrating the harmonious relationships they share.

Dad ([47:15]): "If you have issues, we get over it. Everybody gets along, and it's really a joy."

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Key Takeaways

1. Parenting: Active involvement, reading to children, and community engagement are crucial for raising confident kids.
2. Divorce: Legal processes can be complex and emotionally taxing; choosing the right attorney and minimizing conflict are essential.
3. Career: It's never too late to pursue your passions; continuous personal and professional growth leads to fulfillment.
4. Relationships: Mutual respect, love, and effective communication are the pillars of a happy marriage.

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Notable Quotes

• Dad ([03:15]): "Love is the drug. My love for your mother is my drug."
• Dad ([07:15]): "Having that moral compass is essential."
• Dad ([31:06]): "Your kids never get their childhood back."
• Dad ([39:24]): "Do what you want to do. Life is not a dress rehearsal."
• Dad ([60:28]): "The greatest happiness you can have in your life is having one person you really love who you build a life with."

---

This episode of Pop Apologists offers a blend of personal anecdotes, professional insights, and heartfelt family moments, providing listeners with valuable lessons on navigating the complexities of divorce, raising children, and pursuing one's dreams. It's a testament to the enduring bond between siblings and the wisdom imparted by a loving father.

Transcript

[Chandler]

This episode of Popapologists is brought to you by booking dot com. Whether you want to earn more or grow a full on hosting business, check out booking.com today for the bookings you've dreamed of. List your property on booking.com hi everyone.

[Lauren]

Okay, we are so sorry about the audio quality on today's episode. It's unacceptable. We feel so bad.

[Chandler]

Our mics did not work and there.

[Lauren]

Was just no way to salvage it.

[Chandler]

Our editors tried their best. The sound is coming from our cameras.

[Lauren]

But it's just barely intelligible.

[Chandler]

We actually sound a little drunk. Anyway, long story short, we are releasing.

[Lauren]

This episode as a bonus episode for everyone to listen to so you can still get your, you know, Wednesday pop apologist fix with excellent audio quality. I love this episode.

[Chandler]

It's an episode we recorded with our dad.

[Lauren]

It's very soulful, it's very sweet and it's all about, you know, if you.

[Chandler]

Are going through a family law matter or just like, how to have a great marriage questions about our family.

[Lauren]

It's a really, really wonderful episode. We always intended for this to be released to the public at some point, but we've just been kind of keeping it on ice.

[Chandler]

We originally released it for premium.

[Lauren]

So anyway, we're so excited for you guys to hear this episode and to, you know, have everyone hear more from our dad, who we just love so much and is truly a star.

[Chandler]

When we first had him on the.

[Lauren]

Pod, people begged for him to come back. So, so happy this one's being released today. And then thank you so much for your patience with the poor audio quality from the earlier episode and for bearing with us. Love you guys.

[Courtney]

Which daughter were you most confident in when she flew the nest?

[Dad]

I think all of you guys have such great talents. I wasn't that confident in any of you.

[Courtney]

Well, we are back with another episode with our dear father, back by popular demand. The people wanted to see you back on the podcast and here you are. Thank you.

[Dad]

I'm very glad to be here with you girls. Always thrilled as always.

[Lauren]

It's honestly a little bit jarring. Like what an impact last episode made. Dad, a few people emailed us and they wanted to tell us how great the episode was.

[Courtney]

Nobody emails us. Let me just say that no one.

[Lauren]

Emails like that actually never happened. So we got someone sending us a straight email. So many responses in the DMs. I don't know, dad. Like, are you thinking of podcasting? Giving up a lot? I think you could be a star.

[Dad]

Well, I'll tell you what, it's joy to be here. And I think it's just the contrast. I've heard a lot of your other guests and they kind of have a kind of a shtick and I have my own.

[Courtney]

Wow, dad. The contrast. Yeah, I think people are.

[Dad]

I've never been on mushrooms.

[Courtney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lauren]

You know, and it shows you're still thinking clearly.

[Courtney]

Truly.

[Lauren]

Thought A leads to thought B leads to thought C, which we appreciate.

[Dad]

Well, I've heard it's a wonderful experience for those who would partake have mushrooms. But it's never gonna be me, that's for sure.

[Courtney]

Okay, well, I'm glad. That was actually the first question we were gonna ask you. So I'm glad that's out of the way.

[Lauren]

Well, let's get to some other hard hitting questions now that we've cleared that up. I mean, any other, any drugs you would try?

[Dad]

Well, there's a few I'm trying already.

[Lauren]

We won't. Okay.

[Dad]

But love is the drug. My love for your mother is my drug.

[Lauren]

Yeah, that's true.

[Courtney]

Very sweet.

[Lauren]

Oh, my gosh. Deborah is in studio, everyone. She's off camera today. She's off mic as well, but she is in the studio. So we make references to a gorgeous brunette matriarch of the Bledsoe home. You'll know why, but we're gonna get into the questions for the patriarch of the home. You know what? This is perfect. Let's lead off with a softball. What is your favorite thing about Deb?

[Dad]

Well, I think that just her friendship all these years. It's wonderful to. Well, we've been together 42. 42 years.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Over 42 years now. That's even a better record than my orange theory record.

[Lauren]

And the companionship is the thing that is your favorite thing.

[Dad]

It is.

[Lauren]

Wow, that's really.

[Dad]

I've rarely had a travel. We've been together a lot.

[Mom]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lauren]

It's very sweet. Okay. Staying in the familial domestic realm. Someone wants to know best tips to raise confident, successful children that must have seen Chandler's LinkedIn.

[Dad]

I have to say I think that a lot of things we could say out there. I have to say your mother is probably the biggest factor I think in all of that. She is a very sharp person and she does not miss much, as you girls well know.

[Lauren]

Mom, you can't do the cue cards. Okay. You can't feed dad lines. No, I'm just kidding.

[Dad]

I'd like to think that your sharpness is genetic. And I think your mother has wonderful social skills.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And I think That I. Hopefully I have some brain power also, you know, Brain power. Horsepower is everything.

[Mom]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lauren]

That's why you don't want it.

[Dad]

Whether you're talking about a podcast, a law firm, anything, it's how much horsepower can you generate?

[Mom]

Right. Yeah.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Lauren]

Don't want the mushrooms to interfere with that as well. With their horsepower.

[Courtney]

Yeah, absolutely not.

[Lauren]

Okay, so let's, like, bounce back and forth. I'm just glad you're sitting back, Chan. You don't need the questions.

[Courtney]

I don't need them. I'm relaxing.

[Lauren]

I'm here.

[Courtney]

I'm here. It's a family affair.

[Lauren]

Why don't just allow me to handle it?

[Courtney]

I didn't want to bring my iPad over here.

[Lauren]

You can be the co guest with dad. I'll ask you some questions. Seriously.

[Courtney]

Okay, great.

[Lauren]

Okay. So question for you, dad. Someone wants to know.

[Dad]

I'm going to say one more thing about the other question came to my mind. So here's the. Here's the reality that, you know, back in my day, we used to have Ann Landers. That was the gossip column. It's like dear at me or whatever. Not gossip, but it was more the advice columns. And so then people would. They'd write in and they. There was this story about how I had the meanest mother, and she wouldn't let me do all these things that other kids got to do. And then the point of it was she was really glad in the end that she had a mean mother. And I think the point is that what I would. I would say is that your mom has really been into you, your lives, and she's been into. And I'm going to. Very frankly. I came home probably just like today, kind of tired, and I just kind of sit there, read my book or whatever, and just kind of listen into the background. But your mom has been very involved, and I think that that's a real. Anybody who wants to raise successful kids, you got to be involved in their life.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Know what's going on. And I think you've all been able to develop your talents. I think we had expectations of you. I want to say this. If you. I think one of the things you really have to do is read to your kids. Reading to your kids is so important because I. I know all of you grew up as readers, and I think that opens up. I don't think any of us were great mathematicians. I don't think we were going to be Elon Musk, but we have. There's a lot of verbal skills you get from reading, understanding, The English language.

[Mom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

So absolutely.

[Lauren]

No, that's so true. And I think double tapping on that a little bit, you know, you and mom had expectations of us, and I think it can be easier to not have expectations and to let things slide because you don't want to deal with the resistance teenagers will provide when they have to do chores or have to abide by certain standards. And so it takes more effort to be that kind of parent.

[Dad]

Another thing I could mention is I have to say, it just comes to mind, we raise you girls in a faith and I think the community raising the child or whatever that saying is. I think there's a lot of good that comes from raising your kids with a set of values. You went to church generally pretty much every week. You had other kids living. At least other kids living those standards are taught those things. You were taught from an early age what was acceptable, what was not acceptable. And I think that does translate. Having that moral compass.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think we were surrounded by a lot of other positive adult examples via like our religion or whatnot. And I think that that really it was important. And I think we saw like a people who modeled like a great life.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Chandler]

I think, I think one of the.

[Lauren]

Great things about Mormonism is it it really forces children to interact with adults that are not their parents on a very regular basis. Right. You have all these like, meetings and it for to be more social and more socially graceful than I think you would be if you're really just interacting with your teacher and your parents and saying hi to your friend's parents.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And I think that there's an ability a lot of Mormon kids have to really look an adult in the eye, say hello, ask questions, and not to say that other children do not. But I think when you're raised in an environment where you are forced to be an active member of a community, it's a really good thing, regardless of domination creed.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I mean, I'm just. I was just going to say Lauren had a little like, housewarming thing on Saturday before we came out here. And the majority of the people there were like, Mormon or were still. And anyway, like, the majority of people started like helping clean up at the end of the night and somebody made the joke. Like, how can you tell, like, everybody was or is Mormon? And it's because people, you know, you know how to like, be a good, like, responsible person, you know how to like, take care of things. And like, one value there was just like, being helpful, like, realizing how to be helpful and like having that Modeled and feeling comfortable being helpful, I guess.

[Lauren]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dad]

One thing, I don't think we say typically Mormon any longer. I think, yeah, I think it's better to say Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, where you can say lds.

[Mom]

Yeah, LDS is.

[Dad]

I think that we kind of got Getting away from it. Right.

[Courtney]

But colloquially it's like, known as Mormonism. But yeah, I. Yeah, that's not the official name, but anyway.

[Lauren]

Okay. Into the matter at hand, into the law of it all, we'll hit some other family questions and we'll sprinkle those in. But for anyone listening who did not catch our first interview with our dad, our dad is an esteemed family law attorney. How long have you been practicing family law, dad?

[Dad]

About 33 years.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Lauren]

So has domain expertise. And one of the things that I think a way we can generate value for our listeners is answering some of their questions, things they're facing. This was an interesting question. They said, can the court step in if they think the parents have named a child something outrageous?

[Dad]

Never seen that before.

[Courtney]

Really?

[Dad]

Ever seen that effect? Yeah. I can't even say the name. But I had one case where the kid had a very funny name, sort of like a drug connotation.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And they shake their head. You can tell. They. It's a little troubling to saddle a little kid with some label that's pejorative. But it's not. But, yeah, I've never seen where the judge. I think it's a bad reflection on the parents.

[Mom]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay. But the court's not gonna step in.

[Dad]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay. For a little lsd. Okay, let's.

[Courtney]

Nice.

[Lauren]

Okay. Well, you know, crack a few jokes yourself, Chan. Carry the load, why don't you?

[Courtney]

Here's a question for you, dad. Are you ready? Can I go after my ex for lying about his income in order to pay less child support? So it sounds like this person's ex tried to make their income seem smaller in order to pay less child support.

[Dad]

So then if they find out later, if the person like. And they go after him. Well, there are within reasonable time periods, although actually there is not really, in theory, a time limitation on fraud actions. So somebody's misrepresented, and you find out later they misrepresented, you can go back and ask the court to revisit it.

[Mom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dad]

But it's best to go in as soon as possible. And frankly, some people would say family court is liars court. You get people who like to lie. You get attorneys who like to lie. I'm gonna Say one thing. If you're in a divorce and you find that your attorney is gaslighting the court and lying to the court, probably a good idea to get rid of that attorney because that same person will l to you. So, you know, people have to put down their income under penalty, perjury. I was just in on something like that today, accusing somebody of telling some big lies.

[Courtney]

Do you have to show your tax returns like. Or do you just literally write it in?

[Dad]

And then the tax return you file is what we would say is the presumptively correct income. That's. But we all know about tax returns.

[Courtney]

Can you.

[Dad]

There's a lot of. In fact, in family court, they actually have an accountant typically go through and do what they call a income available for support analysis. And then they take the tax return and then they add back a bunch of or certain categories of things like depreciation or other things. Because the person could claim they only have $10,000 a month or whatever, some amount of money like that when their cash flow is actually two or three times that much. So that's typically what that happens.

[Lauren]

And how often do people get away with that?

[Dad]

A lot.

[Lauren]

A lot.

[Dad]

At least temporarily. They do, yeah.

[Lauren]

Temporarily. Okay, interesting.

[Courtney]

Can you speak more to the attorneys lying to the court or lying to the judge like that? Can you give us an example of a situation?

[Dad]

Okay, here's one for you. They just. Basically, it's a matter. They say, well, we're ready for trial. We've been ready for so long. And we know they're not, but they're trying to get the court to rush the case along.

[Lauren]

Got it.

[Dad]

I think that's lying. Gaslighting.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

People like we talked about last time, narcissistic people hire narcissistic attorneys.

[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Lauren]

Earlybirdcbd.com Code Pop apologists I've got another question for you.

[Courtney]

Like what if, you know, if a person's not in Orange county and they can't retain you? What, what should a person look for in a divorce attorney? Because I think you might be attracted to the more narcissistic personalities because they might seem like bruisers or charming people who are going to, you know, win your case. But what would you say to like to look for.

[Dad]

Look for a specialist in the field. Look for somebody who has a lot of good reviews.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Go in and talk to them. Go with your gut. We have a saying, in fact, in just in business, hire slow fire fast. If you find this attorney or their, or their staff, if you get a bad sense about what they're doing, you've got to fire them. You've got to talk to them or get rid of them. This process is already expensive and difficult enough without a bad relationship with your attorney without trusting your attorney.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

How expensive does that get though? If you, if that means you need to hire a new attorney, and you basically have to pay them to get educated on your case. Like, how can that be really expensive?

[Dad]

It can be.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

But on the other hand, having the wrong attorney is a bad idea.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

I mean, look at the way the judge. If you ever go to court with your attorney, if, when they look at the way they present themselves, look at the way they talk, look at the way the judge seems to interact with them. If the judge is sarcastic with them or condescending or whatever, it's probably that may be that the judge doesn't think too much of your attorney or believes your attorney is a liar. I've had judges tell me, I know she's lying.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Dad]

You know, they like these. Your attorney's reputation goes with them for a long time.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

So a judge will say that from the bench, like, in effect.

[Dad]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Really?

[Dad]

Actually. Okay. Actually, she said, I've known Mrs. So and so. I almost said it. I've known this is so and so for many years.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And I know what I'm gonna get.

[Courtney]

Wow. It's pretty crazy.

[Lauren]

That is crazy. Someone wants to know, what should I do if my spouse has blocked me from all financial accounts?

[Dad]

Probably talk to a lawyer.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay. And what can be done?

[Dad]

Divide the property. The court gets to get a support award.

[Lauren]

So you basically, you need to get away to get a support order.

[Dad]

And by the way, you know, back to your earlier point, when divorces start out, you go to court, you're trying to. Typically, the people split up. So the. The woman is often the gatekeeper with regard to the kids. The man is often the gatekeeper with regard to the money.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So the woman's looking to get money and the man's looking to see the kids. Now, that's probably a generalization, but in any event, a temporary order is made. And so, like, so you may feel like your spouse is lying about their income. And so that temporary order by nature is temporary. It can be changed retroactively all the way back. So if they find that husband's making more money than he said, then they can go back and say, well, your support should have been higher. We're going to. You owe a spouse x more dollars per month. And then like backup. Yeah. Well, they'll say, well, the support should have been 6,000amonth. There's only four. So now you owe these months at the higher rate. And they. If they find somebody's lying, they can make them pay attorney fees. So. And then for the. On the other side of times, the mother is going to come in and say, well, I'm the primary caretaker of the kids, and therefore they should be with me most of the time. And he works. All he does is work. Well, yeah, he's got to support the family, but all he does is work. And so then they may start out giving him a little bit. But what you often find is at the end of these divorces, the kids are shared equally, half and half, and the supported spouse is getting more money. But the supported spouse is also probably working if they weren't before, at the.

[Lauren]

End of almost every divorce.

[Dad]

That's right.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Dad]

Unless you're so independent, you're going to be. You're going to be working or expected to work or imputed the income that you should be making if you choose not to work.

[Chandler]

What about if you have.

[Lauren]

I mean, I'm always so curious about this. There's a woman on Real Housewives of Orange County. I'm not sure if you caught this season. Her name is Jen.

[Dad]

Never. There was one of those people who came down to our Costco, though.

[Courtney]

Oh, really?

[Dad]

And this is kind of funny. On Saturday morning, there was a big line of people waiting to meet them, and they were in Costco.

[Lauren]

They were like, do you know who it was?

[Dad]

I don't recall.

[Lauren]

Like a celebrity or a real housewife.

[Dad]

I steered clear of it. I didn't plan for them.

[Courtney]

So you didn't get.

[Dad]

No, it was one of the real. I think it was one of the Real Housewives.

[Lauren]

Thanks for getting the tea.

[Courtney]

Yeah, literally. It's not like your daughters have a podcast about pop culture housewives or anything like that.

[Lauren]

Thanks for helping.

[Courtney]

It's not a family business, I guess.

[Lauren]

Okay, well, you're.

[Courtney]

You were talking about Jen.

[Lauren]

Yes, thank you. Back to Jen. So she has five kids and she's, you know, late 40s.

[Dad]

Right.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Lauren]

If you've never been in the workforce and you have five children. Yes. A lot of them are teenagers, but still, that requires a lot of work. Does the court expect her to get.

[Dad]

A job once the kids get to be a certain age? Yes.

[Mom]

Like, what age?

[Dad]

What is that age in school? Like, like five, five or six or whatever. Even before that, it's very. The state is very liberal. They take the kids to daycare and they are working.

[Lauren]

Everyone needs to get a job, basically.

[Dad]

That's right.

[Lauren]

Wow, interesting.

[Dad]

So good lesson there. Like I've told you girls, get a skill and just assume you're going to be supporting yourself someday.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So get a skill. Know you can go out and make a living. Have that confidence where maybe you don't stay in a bad relationship Because I think I can go out and do something. I can make a living.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And it's also a great example for your kids.

[Lauren]

Yeah, for sure.

[Chandler]

Dang.

[Lauren]

That's so interesting. So California is a no fault state. And that's. There's a lot of talk about that. My question is, does bad behavior ever play into a divorce settlement? Like an affair? Given that it's no fault, like, does any of that ever play into it or does it not matter at all?

[Dad]

Very rarely does it play in because like I think I said last time, the court assumes everybody's having an affair or done something that caused the divorce. The court rarely knows it caused the divorce.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Dad]

You know, they mean, affairs are pretty common.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

There was even a story about a. A judge and a lawyer that were having an affair.

[Courtney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dad]

And you know, judges, by the time they get to a certain, you know, not that good looking, but I thought this one judge wasn't bad looking for.

[Courtney]

A judge, so it made sense that they were having.

[Dad]

I don't know, maybe she won't. But they. Apparently they were, so.

[Lauren]

Oh, wait, are you talking about Tom Girardi? Wasn't he having an affair with a judge?

[Dad]

You know, I don't know. That sounds familiar.

[Lauren]

That sounds familiar.

[Courtney]

Tom was like the Erika James.

[Lauren]

Tom Girardi was, I believe. Look, this. Google this while I continue the conversation. But I do believe that Tom Diarty was having a fair with like a blonde circuit of appeals judge in La Chan's going to corroborate.

[Dad]

Judges are, you know, judges are human. There was one judge in Orange county, and when a. When a really pretty woman would come into the courtroom, he would light up like a Christmas tree. You could just tell he was just human nature. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Lauren, you're right. Justice. Should I say her name?

[Lauren]

Sure.

[Courtney]

Justice Tricia A. Bigelow returned numerous gifts she received from Tom Girardi. Bigelow had been in a relationship with Girardi during his marriage. But. Yeah, this. That's her.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Courtney]

Judges are, you know, they have mistakes.

[Lauren]

That's so true. Okay.

[Dad]

You hope that that wasn't. Or he wasn't appearing in front of her.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Getting wonderful rulings or whatever.

[Mom]

Yeah. Well, I mean, she.

[Dad]

Advantageous rulings.

[Lauren]

She could definitely be like disbarred if that happened. Right.

[Dad]

Could be problematic.

[Mom]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dad]

I think we should go. Go back to raising great kids.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Someone wants to know, wants to talk about also specifically raising girls.

[Dad]

Again, I'm not gonna. I can look over your mom. I mean, I was raised in a family of. My mom had 10 children in 14 years. I was raised in a family of nine living children, eight of whom were boys. So I didn't really know too much about girls. And then I went from that to being a father of five daughters for a long, long time before your brother came along. And so I think I learned an awful lot. Probably a lot of rough edges got chipped off me from all the female attention and all that, all the. And all the hurt feelings that you know. And all that I learned. I learned how to communicate with the female gender.

[Lauren]

An important lesson, you know.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Sorry mom didn't teach you that earlier.

[Dad]

There's something about walking on eggshell.

[Lauren]

Yeah. A lot of hormones. A lot of feelings.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

A lot of. There can be a little bit of fighting.

[Dad]

And your mother would do the. I think I was always kind of amazed how strict she was with you guys. Like, she would say. I mean, it'd be a Saturday morning. She'd say, we want to eat breakfast. And you'd say. She'd say, well, do your morning fives.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And you had to do those morning fives. And I think she held you guys to a very straight course that when she was able to, she did. And we deviated.

[Courtney]

But even you just saying that phrase, she held you to a very straight course. I just remember hearing that so many times from my childhood, like, gotta hold him to a straight course. Ugh.

[Lauren]

Gotta do the morning fives.

[Dad]

Or hit the ground running.

[Courtney]

Or hit the ground running.

[Dad]

I remember. I think you said more than once, you know, dad, we know you love us so much, but you're not really into us, you know, and that's true, because I would come home pretty tired, and.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And, you know, I didn't. You know, by that time, mother had already had your report of your day at school and all that. But I was one night where. One actually this on a Saturday, and your mom and Courtney were just having a great time somehow. And then all of a sudden, the conversation got a little bit heated, I could tell. And I was generally tuned out watching tv. But next thing I hear. I hear a voice from a mother who says to me, are you gonna let her talk to me like that? So I sprang into action, and I said, courtney, don't you. Whatever. Don't you ever talk to your mother like that.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Jumped on her. And then. So then next thing I know, she's upset with me. She's gonna. Courtney, and we're kind of like. We're kind of in the rough. And then your mom and Courtney are back to normal. Everything's fine with them.

[Lauren]

And now you're in the room.

[Dad]

I got a kid who's mad at me, and I don't even know what she said that's so. And, you know, it's just kind of the typical of what might happen in our house. Courtney was never one to hold back what she would say.

[Lauren]

So it's true. Oh, man. What other fights can we get into?

[Courtney]

I was obviously your perfect child, so, I mean, I was pretty easy to raise.

[Lauren]

Let's be honest who your favorite is, and you can share.

[Courtney]

I think you can share also. Favorite feel like too strong of a word. You can say who is the easiest to raise or who, you know, who tested you the least.

[Dad]

You obviously are both still childless because you really would not have a favorite kid.

[Courtney]

You obviously are still childless.

[Dad]

You might have one you love more than the rest without a favorite. No, that's not true. You love all your kids. They all have their strengths.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And, you know, you learn a lot about. You can see why. You can see why God loves all those kids. Yeah, he does.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Despite all their.

[Lauren]

If you had to do it over again, would you still have six? Do you feel like that's too many?

[Dad]

No. I think. I think all of you were supposed to be in our family. And I think when you become a parent, you kind of get. I think your soul voice kind of says, hey, there's another one needs to come along.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And our last child, McCall, the youngest. Yeah. I told Mom, I said, we need to have this child. We need a baby. There's somebody else who needs to be in our family.

[Lauren]

Well, the men these days are not.

[Courtney]

I know. They're just not the same. I can't even imagine a man saying.

[Lauren]

That, you know, we need to have a fifth child.

[Dad]

You might feel like your family's not complete.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

This is why I think religion is good for men. It's true. Because I feel like it prized. You know, there's real depth, like, to religion. Yes. Like, because I feel like that came from an impulse that's like, our family is not complete. And, like, I think that what came from, like, a religious, like, spiritual feeling, and I think that in our God, this world, that's happening less.

[Dad]

Well, spiritual feelings, I think, are super important.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

I think I would say even for somebody involved in a divorce, one of the things I was just thinking about is if you're involved in a divorce, I highly recommend that you get a faith, you find a faith, and you find your own faith. You may need to reach out to your maker and pray and all that. Pray about your life. I don't think anybody. I'm just going to say it. I don't think anybody should start a divorce or divorce somebody or go through with a divorce unless they feel like they could tell their maker. In effect, I did everything I could to save it. Marriage is too important. And so I do think that in all phases of a divorce or whatever, you ought to be thinking about your life.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Thinking about your kids, thinking about what's. What's best. And so I do think the spiritual feelings are important. Another thing I think, get a friend. You need a good friend. You need somebody who will yank you back and say you're out of line.

[Courtney]

What do you mean?

[Dad]

Like, just give a reality check.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So I mean, I think you can get so angry at that person that you lose your objectivity and it's hard to be objective anyway.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

It makes me sad the way it seems like, you know, people go from obviously being in love with people to hating them and vilifying them, and suddenly they're instead of the best person in the world, the worst person in the world, and, like, what a horrible outcome of, like, that would be. I have a question, though, going back to kind of like, you've been practicing law for 33 years. Do you feel like people are getting divorced now more easily? Like, do you feel like people come to your office with less severe reasons or less having thought it through, it's like more impulsive. Do you feel like there's been any sort of shift?

[Dad]

I do. I think you see people seeing divorce as the solution of their problems. And really it's kind of like the old saying, and I didn't make this up, but the. It's like the woman who got married and she thought by getting married she'd be at the end of her problem. She didn't realize it. She was at the beginning, end and dark. So I know. I think there's a lot of truth to. And you think your divorce may solve your problems. You may just get a whole nother set of problems. Yeah, I think that's important to really look at what's happening going on and what. What you're doing. And I don't think, by the way, just gonna say it. I don't think I. And I heard this conversation take place the other day. I don't remember who, but I think it's like, you Get a divorce. Your kids are gonna suffer. No way. They're not gonna suffer. Kids don't come out great out of a divorce. People are kidding themselves if they think they do. And this heart, it's heartbreaking.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So if you're going to do it and you have to do it, decide what battles you're going to win or what battles you need to win, what winning means to you. Stay in the game plan, Make a plan. Get an attorney you trust and try not to get sidetracked from your plan. It's like Mike Tyson said, and I think believe he's the one who said this. He says everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the nose. And, you know, you got to stick with your plan, fight for what's important and get through it as quick as you can. I mean, I. I heard somebody the other day who I represented for a while, and they went on and they have spent now over a million dollars in attorney.

[Courtney]

Wow.

[Dad]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Dad]

And it's not. And they could have settled and they. They will have less now, so.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Dad]

It's very, very. It's a very inefficient process and it's something that you need if you got to go through it, get in and get out.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Because all that money you're fighting over, you can spend a lot of it on a turn on the process.

[Dad]

Loaned years of your life.

[Courtney]

Right. And I think the toll it takes on your kids to see you in that battle or, you know, in that, like, state.

[Dad]

Your kids never get their childhood back.

[Lauren]

Yeah, well, I mean, you mean, like, you know, move to a place of peace. Your kids can enjoy their childhood as quickly as possible.

[Courtney]

So it can be like the least disruptive, I gotta say.

[Lauren]

Just like, I don't want people to think who have had gone through divorce. And our audience that, like we're trying to say though, that, like, I. I just think that it's entirely possible, and I think we would all agree that it's better for kids to have divorced parents that. And live in two peaceful households than one volatile, chaotic household where the parents are at each other's throats. Right.

[Dad]

Like, that is very true. And I can't. I would hate to judge any situation. I do my job. I want the best for my client. I would never judge their. Normally not judge our situation.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

A lot of times people do if they are divorcing for a superficial reason, sometimes they will come back around and.

[Courtney]

Like, get back together.

[Dad]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

How often do you see that?

[Dad]

Not hugely often, but it happens.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I think what dad was saying earlier is just that, like it's never going to be painless for your kids, even if it's never.

[Dad]

They will be affected. But we are all affected by.

[Courtney]

Right. And you're affected by parents who have a bad relationship. And yeah, I guess I have a question.

[Lauren]

Like, let's say there's a mom right now listening or a dad of like a 2 year old. Is it better to get divorced when your kid is 2 than when they're 10? You know, when they won't have any memory of a single household and maybe they can kind of like avoid, like it almost seems like better to do it earlier rather than later.

[Dad]

That may be.

[Lauren]

Yeah, maybe. This episode of Pop Apologists is brought.

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[Lauren]

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[Lauren]

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[Chandler]

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[Courtney]

Okay, my next question for you or another question from our listeners is why did you choose family law?

[Dad]

You know, for me, I had three kids when I took the bar exam. I was, Lauren was our little, our little tiny baby. I would, she was about the size of a large roast or eat local. No. I would come home from my, my job and I would sit over the bar and I'd lay Lauren up on my chest watching tv. She was a little tiny thing back then. That's how long ago it was. I was studying for the bar.

[Courtney]

Crazy.

[Dad]

So I had three kids to support and I just kind of fell into it. It was something that I could, being on my own, I could get work and we just never looked back.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Something I think that would be interesting for people to hear about is how you decided like a little bit like later in life to become a lawyer. It's not like you straight out of high school, went to, got your under undergrad and then went to law school. You kind of like, what was it, five or seven years later decided to go to law school.

[Dad]

I didn't start law school until I was 30. That's probably about, you know, eight. Seven or eight years.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I actually don't know if I know this, but what was your, what was going to be your career before then?

[Dad]

Before that I was thinking about financial planning.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And that field. And, and I actually had the interview and the guy said, well, you know, the people are really making good money in our business with the lawyers. I thought, oh, why not go to law school? And then we got a scholarship to law school and then my employer paid for a lot of it and so thought, let's go, let's do it.

[Courtney]

Were you nervous at all about starting a new career, like with three kids?

[Dad]

You know, it's funny, I had a kind of a quasi government job, super secure, and I was of course nervous. It was probably good that you're nervous.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And first month, though, we made more money than I was making, than I was taking home from my job.

[Mom]

Wow.

[Dad]

So we just didn't look back and kept moving forward.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

One thing that always impresses me is how you went to law school, like at night, like you had A full time job. And you know, you and mom had three kids and dad went to law school at night and I can't even fathom that.

[Dad]

You got to be young to do something. These things that take a lot of energy. I would actually study little cards when I was driving along. I could get through about 30. We call them law and flash. They were these little three by three by four cards or whatever and they would have a question and answer and I could drive my little Toyota Celica and hold the car this before the Internet or whatever. But I could read my question and think it through while I'm driving and read the answer and you know the answer. So we did a lot of that and listen to tapes, stuff like that. We did some tapes back in that day.

[Mom]

Crazy.

[Dad]

We could listen to law tapes and you could. Yeah, you could do it. It was very doable.

[Lauren]

I feel like also there might be someone listening or at least me specifically. I didn't know what I was going to do in my late 20s and starting any sort of like master's program or graduate program felt like so late. But it's just so interesting and because like for us your career has been loft. Almost four decades essentially, or three and a half. It's been a very long time. Even though you started later than most people, it's. That hasn't been in any way like defining for your career. And so I just think that like life is so long.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And if there's something you want to do, Even if you're 40 years old, I mean you can still have a 30 year career.

[Dad]

People told me, oh, you'll be so old, you're, you're way too old to start law school at age 30. And then I went to the school I was going to and there were people in their 50s and 60s that were.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Starting law school. I would tell anybody if you think it's very funny too, because I have to say, I don't know what. In the last, for some reason, last four years, there has been such a huge increase in the demand for attorneys and psychologists. Really therapists and attorneys. It's hard to hire an attorney for your practice right now because there's such a huge demand. Litigation is increasing.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So I would say anybody, whatever you want to do, if you don't do it, you're still, let's say it takes three years. If you don't do it, you're still going to be three years older when you haven't done it.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So I would say if you want in law I think law is a great profession to get into right now for anybody. I think there's less people in law school maybe than there were when I was there. There's a huge demand.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And so if you. But whatever you want to do, life is not a dress rehearsal.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Do what you want to do. And we, you know, we. We got through it.

[Lauren]

And it's really so true, like, that time is going to go by no matter what, whether you're working towards the thing you want to work toward or not. And it's. It's crazy. There's a lot of. I have a lot of friends who want to start or they want to start, like, some sort of influencing thing, and they think, oh, like, it's too late. And I just think that. Yeah, like, that time is going to pass regardless. Like, when we start our podcast and stuff, you know, it's taken five years to really kind of get it off the ground.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

But we could just be starting now. Right.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Dad]

So there's something tremendously exhilarating about chasing your dreams.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And about having something to look forward to that you're excited about. A goal. I mean, setting goals and going after them, thinking about what you're doing with your life at any age right now. I mean, at my age 67, I'm still really excited about a lot of things in my life, and I've got. I've got more mountains I want to climb, more things I want to do.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Dad]

And so, I mean, I think there's no reason to not chase your dreams.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

It's what you really makes you feel alive.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

The American spirit.

[Courtney]

So true happiness, I think, too, dad, you've always talked about, like, enjoying owning your own business.

[Dad]

Right.

[Courtney]

And being your own boss. And I think, like, I didn't, you know, now that I kind of have two different, you know, jobs, I just think that that is something that I now experience working for the podcast, also my other job, but it really is. So it's. It's really cool when you can be an entrepreneur, you know, and set your own hours and all around a lot.

[Dad]

Of times longer hours, but at least you're working on something that your heart is. And I think it's problem to be in a job that your heart's not in it.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Because, you know, then I remember somebody said, Heard somebody say one time that you better like your job because you're doing it with the best hours of your life. And if you're unhappy in your work, then your whole outlook on life is going to Be unhappy. You're going to be looking for the weekend all the time or. Or complaining about your boss or whatever. And somebody said, be happy in your work.

[Lauren]

Yeah. So important.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Another question, if you don't mind back to, you know, the nitty gritty. Someone wants to know how to make sure you get a fair prenup when you're not the rich one.

[Dad]

Get a decent attorney. Don't try and overreach. I think a fair prenup is segregating what you bring into the marriage. And then I think it's a terrible prenup for somebody to say, well, all my efforts moving forward still belong to me.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And, you know, then if we divorce, I'll give you a little bit in the future. But I. You're not really sharing your life if you're in a marriage, you are in a partnership.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And I had a case one time, and I. This I could talk about. Lady comes and talks to me, and she. She says, okay, I got this guy. He's a really neat guy. He's got really Midwestern values. You know, she made about four grand a month at the time. And then this guy was. He made about 40 grand a month. And this is like several years ago. And she says, you know, he's got this prenup. He wants me to send this prenup. And basically it was that if we get divorced, everything I earn from now on and everything I brought in is still mine, and you get what's yours. And she. He was making ten times as much. And if you. Then he said, if we have a child, great, I'll pay. I'll pay child support, but I'll only give you $1,000 a month spousal support. And then he says, for the money we make, will spend about $8,000 a month. And you put your 4,000 in, and I'll put 4,000 of my 40 in. And I said. I thought to myself, I said this terrible.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So I think it was a good deal. Or did she just really understand?

[Dad]

I think she was loving the guy and Love him. So then I called up the other attorney and I said, come on. So are you telling me that my client's got to put in her 4,000 and your client puts in her 4,000 and then he gets to keep all the rest of his money? I said, at minimum. At minimum, let her keep what she makes and invest it for her own future. Your guy can pay the bills. And so then. Client goes home. After I talked to this attorney, we hadn't figured it out yet. And the guy says he was supposed to have these Midwest families. He says, get out of my house. To the woman.

[Lauren]

No, stop. Wow.

[Dad]

I actually think that was some of the best money she ever spent. Yeah, she dodged the bullet there.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Seriously.

[Dad]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Wow. Because you can really have some rose colored glasses on if you're.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Dad]

Not what I call Midwestern values.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I remember I was dating this guy when I was 21 and he was 29 and lived in Salt Lake, and I was at BYU and Dad found out that we were splitting everything. And you were just like, not happy about that. You just thought that was just so tacky and just so inappropriate given that I was a college student and he was a professional and I mean, he was like, he did social work, so he wasn't necessarily rolling in it. But I just feel like you've always had the viewpoint that, you know, like, it's important for men to be generous and to provide and to take care. And I just think that's a very, like, chivalrous point of view. And anyway, I don't think that's old school.

[Dad]

I would feel really weird if I was ever on a date, which I'm not going to be, but if I were to say, okay, here's my credit card, give me yours. We'll divide it, we'll divide. Here's my adding machine. We'll divide it evenly. That seems. It's like that saying goes, so many boys, so few men, or whatever. Maybe the other way around. I do think the alarm, I think is what. What I remember about you, though, in your college days of dating.

[Courtney]

Oh, here we go.

[Dad]

I remember you had these guys and they wanted to. And okay, I will say, out of all my kids, Lauren, man, she was gonna do. She could do anything she was gonna do. She had all these careers in mind. Cookie, baker, coder, you name it. And so then range. But these guys, what's that?

[Courtney]

Just range. She had a lot of range.

[Dad]

She had a lot of range of talents and wanting to do all these things she was thinking about doing. But you got with these guys and it seemed like they wanted to go rock climbing with you.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And you. And they were on a level, high level mountain rock climbing, and you're down here. And I think I pulled one of these guys aside and said, hey, I'm concerned about my daughter's safety.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Like being able to take care of her.

[Dad]

Well, I thought she was pushing the envelope. I thought you were pushing the envelope because you're willing to please and try hard. And all that, but I thought you were safety wise. You might be pushing the envelope, like, literally climbing on these rock climbing things. You even told me one time said, dad, I was really scared. I don't. But we got through it somehow. But it was pretty dicey or whatever.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I did a lot of, like, mountaineering types in Utah, and I think those were nice guys. I just. At the time, I was prioritizing hotness above all else, even physical safety. And, you know, I learned my lesson, though. I learned my lesson with those types. Yeah, you were so interesting. I appreciate the YouTube.

[Dad]

I don't know if your podcast remembers, but you two worked as servers at a. What was supposed to be the best restaurant in Provo, and you worked as servers. That's true, we did. And then you, at one point, the two of you rented a room together for this period of time. You even slept in the same big bed, and it was like, wow, they're really close, the sisters.

[Lauren]

You know, when I was.

[Dad]

And you guys have been really great together. I think. You know, one thing I will say for our kids, I mean, one of the greatest joys is that our family loves each other. Our kids all love each other. They don't need to be subpoenaed to be together or whatever. I think. I mean, they. Everybody gets along and it's really a joy. Mom. And I, I think, feel pretty successful in that realm. And if we do have issues, which I know that you guys have had issues with each other, generally, we get over it.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And. Or you get over it, typically.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So I think that's a. I think that's a great thing.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

We're very lucky in that way as a family.

[Dad]

We want to be together.

[Mom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Lauren]

We're so lucky that way. I mean, just going back to the servers thing, actually, I wanted to actually get to that. That's what was embarrassing. I remember telling you about this because we were servers and we were friends with all the fr. All the people who work kind of in, like, the nice restaurants where I went to college in Provo. And so when my boyfriend and I would go to, like, restaurants to eat, we would always put down two cards to split it. Exactly, exactly. And anyway, I think I told you this, but I said, can we just switch off? Because it's a little embarrassing for me.

[Mom]

Like.

[Lauren]

Like, it's just like a little. We're really splitting it down the middle. And he said, if we do that, it'll never really be equal.

[Courtney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lauren]

Anyway, you were not happy.

[Dad]

I Remember place. This place I worked. I did work in the accounting department, but this guy, this supervisor or whatever, you know, he was going to law school. We might all four or five of us might all go out to lunch. And he would literally, when the bill came, he would take out his calculator and split it to the penny. Everybody paid their share. It was ridiculous. It was kind of ridiculous.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Well, I feel like I do want you to answer this question because I think it'll be interesting and you can probably give a politically correct answer, but. Which daughter were you most confident in when she flew the nest?

[Dad]

I think all of you guys have such great talents. I could not. I wasn't that confident in any of you. No, I mean, I think you all have great talents. The truth. That's. You know, I'm joking. But I think you all have great talents and you dam and demonstratedly so I think it's a little surprising. I mean, I think I went into something that I knew I could make money at. And I think you girls have went into things that you're willing to just go to the mat and do what you really maybe like doing. Well, I think. Although I have to say, I think being a lawyer does fit my skill set.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And I. So I. I think that's been a good thing for me. I think I found a profession that I liked and enjoyed. Like I said before, if you're not in a profession or if you're not in something you enjoy, start thinking about getting into something else.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

I think all of you. It's wonderful to see you capitalize on your talents. Not one of you, I noticed, has wanted to follow me under the law.

[Courtney]

I thought Lauren was going to. How many LSAT books?

[Dad]

I tried to convince Lauren to do that, and she.

[Courtney]

You would have been great.

[Dad]

Sounds like she made the right decision.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But then what? Then I couldn't have done this with her, so.

[Lauren]

That's true. I mean, I. I personally was not meant, I think, to be under a lot of pressure. It's just too much for me.

[Courtney]

She was not meant to be under.

[Dad]

The reality is. I mean, it is kind of funny, too. You hear that saying, the world's full of people who almost went to law school.

[Lauren]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, my gosh.

[Dad]

Maybe they got smart. They. You know, maybe they were. They were wise. You know, you find you. But again, I think that's another thing. If you talk about. I'm just going to say it. I think people should seek guidance on who they marry. You know, try and listen to your Soul voice. Listen to that little voice that we all have. People should seek guidance on what their job is, you know, and that doesn't mean that you stay in the same job for your entire career. A lot of people change careers every seven or eight years. You might change careers three or four times in your, in your career, make a major. I've seen clients do amazing things to reinvent themselves over there in the mortgage business and then that went flat. So I had this one guy, then he got into the credit repair and loan and helped people who, you know, owed a lot of money. There's a lot, you know, just capitalizing your talents, try and be light on your feet. And you know, I still say, I mean, look at your level of happiness and excitement. If you're not happy, if you're not excited about your future, maybe reevaluate what you're doing because it's. You gotta be happy in what you're doing.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

What careers do you see people going into that maybe don't, you know, are in a marriage, do get divorced, do need to find a profession? What careers do you see a lot of people going into later in life who have not been in the workplace?

[Dad]

I'll tell you this, if you've been in a long term marriage, the court may often, if you go with a plan, you say, look, I want to get some really good employment. I've got a two or three year plan where I think I can make a really good living if I have time to do this. I think one thing I've seen people go into is nursing.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Really Another one, I think if you are a sharp person, paralegal.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

I think those are both excellent careers. You can make a really good living doing them. I think sales, I think a super, super promising field. Internet marketing.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And you can get really specific training in that and you can make a good living.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

You learn how to. So there's, I think there's a lot of opportunity out.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

You know, you can become a nurse in 15 months.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Take an intensive program. That's right. Red, that's a registered nurse.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And I mean one of the careers I think is like really great for someone who, I don't know, maybe wants to work in that profession, but maybe wants to do something a little bit less high pressure is going into like esthetics once they have that nursing degree. Because you can make really good money doing injectables. Like doing injectables, doing all that stuff. For sure.

[Dad]

I don't know what that is.

[Lauren]

It Was like Botox. I'm curious, dad, do you have any like crazy stories? Like, what's your wildest. A few wild client stories would be.

[Courtney]

Amazing also if you can. Have you ever represented a celebrity? Obviously you probably can't say the name, but have you ever represented a celebrity or any learnings from that?

[Dad]

I think it's. I think it's really funny. I'll just say this. I think it's really funny. Who. Yeah. How some of these attorneys kind of the way they do their thing. So then I remember this. In Orange county, this lady who claimed to be a celebrity attorney and she did have some, you know, I think she was on financial on the right side of this case. But I remember she came down, this is going on seven or eight years ago, she came down from LA or Beverly Hills to Orange county and representing this client. And she showed up and she was 750 an hour and her associate was 500 an hour. They were charging this guy $1200 an hour. And we were running really simple case. Nothing that upsetting me.

[Lauren]

But.

[Dad]

But she, she came up in a chauffeured limousine and she.

[Lauren]

Oh my God.

[Dad]

Which in Orange county is just ridiculous. You know, she came up in a chauffeured limousine. It's just kind of funny. She was. But she was presenting herself as the lawyer for the celebrities. And I went in her office and she had a pair of boxing gloves in a frame, you know, in her Beverly Hills office.

[Lauren]

Oh my God.

[Dad]

As if she was representing Mike Tyson or whatever, you know. But it's just kind of interesting the, the things that people do.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

I will say one thing. I mean, I will say this for. Even if somebody wants to be a mom, family law is an awesome thing to get into because you can send your kids to school in the morning, go to court, you're out by noon, you can get home, get your kids from school and you can be a mom and be a. And make good money. I think, I think that I was telling you that when I was trying to convince you to go into law.

[Lauren]

Yeah, for sure. It's good advice. I think that speaking to the celebrity attorney thing, I just think there's always a subset of people who just want to pay the most because they think it. Whatever. They're going to get the best quality.

[Dad]

Let me tell you. There's a lot of phoniness that goes on in the legal business. You know, there's a lot of crazy stuff that goes on. And I remember there was the one story about this client I had and they had a husband passed on now, but he had a house full of these items in Laguna Beach. And they were like Louis XIV clocks. He had supposedly like 15 of them. And all these. All this artwork and all this stuff. And at one point in time, we got really caught up in this case, and we made. We did pretty well in this case, but we got really caught up in it. And the other side of the family controlled this house and all these items. And one day we find out that they're loading up all the. They were supposed to inventory the items, were going to sell them all. One day we find out that they were going to take all the items off the property. And they had like four or five cars. So I called all my office staff and I said, okay, get down here, but get in your cars.

[Courtney]

Wow.

[Dad]

So they had all these. Then they had all these cars and trucks pulling out of this estate with all the stuff. Everybody took one car and followed it. No, we were following them. And your mom and I. This is pretty funny. Your mom and I were in separate cars. Got her down there, and she was doing some staff work for me at the time. And so your mom and I are following this one truck full laden full of stuff.

[Courtney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dad]

We're following this. And we. We're literally. First we go from Laguna beach to. They go to the Costa Mesa Police Department and they tell the. And they get right by the fairgrounds and they. The police come out and they say, hey, these people are following us. And so the police come and talk to us. Yeah, we're following them. They've got a truck full of stolen property that belongs to my client.

[Lauren]

Wow.

[Dad]

So anyway, the police says, well, you can follow them. Just be careful, you know. So they're doing all these. So we're traveling up the freeway and they're doing all these evasive maneuvers. They would get off. They would like, yeah, it was like a heist. And I've got your mom on the phone and I'm saying, okay, you know, they're follow him. He's, you know, there he goes, there he goes. We're going back and forth, talking to our cell phones. We're driving. And anyway, what happened, we get all the way up to, I think Pasadena or someplace like that.

[Lauren]

It's like an hour away.

[Dad]

And then they actually, we all pulled in this fast food place and they're inside ordering their fast food. And we're just sitting there and watching them. And they get back in their car and they. They pull out of the fast food place to Back on the street, and then this huge van pulls in front of us.

[Lauren]

No. And you lost them. Oh, my God.

[Dad]

This is. Right now, this is probably. It seemed like it was really, really late in the evening by this time, but I don't think it was that late. But anyway, we knew where the stuff went. And then the funny thing is, we literally went down to that place where it went and inventoried. You know, we later saw all the stuff. It all came out. It all worked out. How did you know where it was, crazy stuff? Well, I don't know. There was. We kind of had a hunch where it was going. Here's what I would think. Crazy things people do for money, the crazy stuff they will pull. I think there's a real element of phoniness in all this money. I don't think you can take it with you. I don't think it's the source of happiness in any family. It might make your life easier, but I think to cheat people out of money, that becomes ingrained in your character. That act does. And I think that happiness and doing. Being able to look yourself in the mirror, you know, this person who was on the other side, she was a very unhappy person. And, you know, in the end, the funny thing about it is, in the end, it really didn't work out for her. All the cheating these people do. There's a lot of people, a lot of cheating out there financially, and I don't think it doesn't work out often. They're miserable people. And, you know, you get. I'm telling you right now, you get in a divorce, your spouse is in business for themselves or whatever. You're not really involved in it. You're never going to find all the money they hide. You're never going to figure all that out. It's not going to do it. They. People. Spouses have been hiding money from each other for years.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

It's not a perfect world. Go on with your life.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dad]

Karma eventually catches up to people.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Mom]

Yeah. Wow.

[Lauren]

That's good advice.

[Courtney]

Sage words.

[Dad]

I mean, we had. Even in the neighborhood we moved into. We moved to. We moved into this nice neighborhood, Laguna Niguel. And it seemed like people were really putting on airs financially. And they were really. And there was one family on our street that left in the middle of the night. We never saw them again.

[Lauren]

For real?

[Dad]

For real. You know, on the street that we lived on and saying, I mean, you guys were really young at the time, but there's a lot of phoniness out there.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

And you know.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

No, it's true. I mean, it. It's so true. And I think that Chandler and I talk about this or we're talking about it. I think we were not raised in a family that was obsessed with status. So we were not raised in a way that was like, it's really important that you go to an Ivy League school and you get into, you know, you get this sort of job so you can send your kids to this sort of private school. Like, I think one of the things that I didn't even know that world really existed, where a lot of people. I think it's going to be more of an east coast sensibility where there's just a lot of judgment of people and pedigree. A lot of pedigree. Like, oh, what school did you go to? What school did your dad go to? Oh, you're the first person in your family. Okay, so that's not as good as, like, from a family where everyone's gone to the nice private school and then the nice and I university and all that stuff. And I just think that, like, all of that stuff is so shallow and it's so unimportant. And I just think it's such a blessing to be raised without even a knowledge that people care about that, you know, because it's. It's silly pressure that then kids will put on themselves.

[Courtney]

And it just. It frames your whole way of looking at the world in a really, like, kind of archaic way.

[Dad]

People invariably, I think a lot of them, they want to do their class. They want to show they're higher or better.

[Mom]

Yeah.

[Dad]

So it's probably. I think. I actually think I remember this one actor came to my school. He said, hey, don't worry about money. Don't worry about. I mean, you got to have money. But he said, the greatest happiness you can have in your life is having one person you really love who you build a life with. That's the great happiness in life.

[Lauren]

Yeah, for sure. Well, on that note, you guys, so great to have our dear dad back again. I would say where can people find you? But I don't think you're looking for Instagram followers. But hopefully we'll have you back for a third time at some point.

[Courtney]

Please.

[Dad]

I have about 25 followers.

[Lauren]

Thanks so much for being here, dad. We love you so much.

[Dad]

I love you, too. You guys are awesome.

[Courtney]

Thank you.

[Mom]

Thank you.

[Tucker]

Pluto TV has all the shows and movies you love streaming for free. That means laughter is free. With gut busting comedies like the Neighborhood Boomerang and Ferris Bueller's Day Off Bueller Free Mystery is free with countless cases to crack From Criminal Minds Tracker and.

[Lauren]

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[Lauren]

Clocking out of the Content Factory.

[Becca]

I'm Tucker.

[Deborah]

And I'm Becca and this is a podcast where we take a break from climbing the absolute corporate ladder that is being a tick tocker.

[Becca]

That's right. This is the most corporate podcast for the least corporate girlies in this pod.

[Deborah]

We're in the break room with you guys. Our goal, gorgeous, gorgeous co workers and.

[Becca]

You may be wondering what goes on in the Content Factory.

[Deborah]

Give us the agenda, Tucker.

[Becca]

Well, each episode starts with a performance.

[Deborah]

Review where we talk about what's going on in the week. Content. We're making DMs.

[Becca]

We're getting a little peek behind the curtain of the content creator life. We also will be doing an HR.

[Deborah]

Report where we ask you guys during the week, what is some workplace drama you got going on?

[Becca]

And we'll end each episode with a rapid fire and hire things we want.

[Deborah]

To get rid of and things we want to keep.

[Becca]

For example, Becca, what do you want to fire this week?

[Deborah]

My ibs.

[Becca]

Absolutely.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Becca]

And before we go, we have some action items for you.

[Deborah]

Please complete by end of day follow rate and review the Content Factory wherever you get your podcasts.

[Becca]

And as always, we'll circle back soon.