MomTok Tea Spilling with Jessi from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Summary

Pop Apologists Podcast: "MomTok Tea Spilling with Jessi from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives"

Release Date: July 2, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of Pop Apologists, hosts Jesse Natikara and Jordan engage in an in-depth conversation with Michaela, the star of "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives". The episode delves into Michaela's personal background, her experiences with the show’s success, and the intricate dynamics within her friend group.

Navigating Fame and Personal Life [00:54 - 04:03]

Jesse opens the discussion by welcoming Michaela, highlighting the rapid pace of her life since the first season premiered.

Michaela [01:18]: "My life has not slowed down since September when season one came out. It's been just go, go, go."

Michaela shares her whirlwind experience managing her business and family amidst the show's rising popularity.

Michaela’s Mormon Upbringing and Leaving the Church [04:03 - 07:01]

The conversation shifts to Michaela's upbringing in the Mormon community in Utah. She provides a heartfelt account of her parents' backgrounds and how her father's departure from the church influenced her own journey.

Michaela [03:12]: "I was raised like a mutt. I have a little Mormon, a little Mormon in me."

Five years ago, Michaela and her sisters distanced themselves from the church, yet they maintain strong ties with friends and family who remain active in the Mormon community.

Impact of the Show on Michaela’s Business [07:01 - 08:32]

Jessi discusses the initial fears that the show’s portrayal might adversely affect her hair salon and extension business. Contrary to her worries, Michaela observes a positive reception post-trailer release.

Michaela [04:58]: "I've spent eight years building my business being reputable in Utah county, and what if I lose everything?"

However, the unexpected love from the Mormon community alleviated her concerns, proving that the show resonated more positively than anticipated.

Dealing with Judgment and Cultural Perceptions [08:32 - 13:35]

Michaela reflects on the judgmental attitudes prevalent in Utah County and how public attention has shed light on underlying cultural issues. She addresses the complexities surrounding her friends Jen and Zach, emphasizing their personal growth and redemption.

Michaela [07:05]: "When you're exposed to the whole world, that's when you're like, oh, maybe it's not okay."

Dialogue explores the challenges of maintaining authenticity amidst external scrutiny and internal conflicts.

Friendship Dynamics and Personal Growth [13:35 - 21:26]

The discussion ventures into Michaela’s relationships with other cast members, particularly Taylor and Dakota. She praises Taylor’s honesty and vulnerability, highlighting how these traits inspire personal introspection and growth.

Michaela [14:16]: "I love her, and I think next season, you guys will see that I'm a little more vulnerable in my personal life."

Michaela also touches upon the supportive yet challenging interactions with Dakota, portraying him as a well-meaning but sometimes goofy presence in her life.

Business Benefits from the Show’s Popularity [21:26 - 26:29]

Interestingly, Michaela reveals that her business has flourished due to the show's success. The visibility has attracted numerous clients and provided opportunities for expansion without compromising her reputation.

Michaela [20:53]: "People come to see it. Yeah. And so it's actually been amazing for business."

She discusses strategic collaborations and promotional efforts that have capitalized on the show's popularity, including influencer partnerships and social media engagement.

Character Evolutions and Cast Interactions [26:29 - 37:38]

Michaela offers insights into the growth of other cast members, such as Layla and Miranda. She commends Layla’s newfound assertiveness and anticipates further character development in upcoming seasons.

Michaela [24:41]: "She's come a long way, and I hope that you see that next."

The conversation also touches on the evolving dynamics with husbands and the supportive roles they play in Michaela’s professional and personal endeavors.

Addressing Personal Challenges and Health Awareness [37:38 - 43:19]

Michaela bravely shares her battle with thyroid issues, underscoring the importance of health awareness and proactive medical intervention. Her openness has inspired listeners and provided comfort to those undergoing similar struggles.

Michaela [50:05]: "It was really cool because I got messages from nurses after watching season one pointing it out and I never would have."

She emphasizes the role of reality TV in spreading crucial health information, highlighting how on-screen experiences can lead to real-life positive outcomes.

Reunion Reflections and Group Cohesion [43:19 - 57:40]

Discussing the challenges of the reunion episode, Michaela explains the emotional and logistical hurdles faced during filming, especially concerning absent cast members like Demi. Despite tensions, she expresses hope for future reconciliation and continued group harmony.

Michaela [53:05]: "I do think it was productive. It definitely opened things up, but it was almost like it made it really, really contentious."

The hosts commend Michaela’s transparency and resilience, concluding the episode with reflections on personal growth and the ongoing journey of balancing fame, friendship, and family.

Notable Quotes

• Michaela [01:18]: "My life has not slowed down since September when season one came out. It's been just go, go, go."

• Michaela [03:12]: "I was raised like a mutt. I have a little Mormon, a little Mormon in me."

• Michaela [04:58]: "I've spent eight years building my business being reputable in Utah county, and what if I lose everything?"

• Michaela [07:05]: "When you're exposed to the whole world, that's when you're like, oh, maybe it's not okay."

• Michaela [14:16]: "I love her, and I think next season, you guys will see that I'm a little more vulnerable in my personal life."

• Michaela [20:53]: "People come to see it. Yeah. And so it's actually been amazing for business."

• Michaela [24:41]: "She's come a long way, and I hope that you see that next."

• Michaela [50:05]: "It was really cool because I got messages from nurses after watching season one pointing it out and I never would have."

• Michaela [53:05]: "I do think it was productive. It definitely opened things up, but it was almost like it made it really, really contentious."

Conclusion

This episode of Pop Apologists offers a candid look into Michaela’s life both on and off the screen. From navigating the complexities of a public persona rooted in a specific cultural backdrop to managing personal health challenges, Michaela's story is one of resilience and authenticity. Listeners gain valuable insights into the interplay between reality TV dynamics, personal growth, and maintaining meaningful relationships amidst fame.

---

Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content segments to focus on the core discussions and insights shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Ethan Cross]

This new year, why not let Audible expand your life by listening? Explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you. Tap into your well being with advice and insight from leading professionals and experts on better health, relationships, career, finance, investing, and more. Maybe you want to kick a bad habit or start a good one. If you're interested in learning how to master your emotions and hearing scientifically backed advice for using your emotions as a tool, may I suggest Shift by psychologist and bestseller author Dr. Ethan Cross. Trust me, listening on Audible can help you reach the goals you set for yourself. Start listening today when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com wondery that's audible.com wondery.

[Jesse Natikara]

Well, well, well. This is a huge day for pop apologists. Like, dream come true day because we have Jesse Natikara, star of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, on the show. Thank you so much for being here.

[Michaela]

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. We were supposed to do this, I think a few weeks back, but schedules got crazy, so I'm really excited it worked out.

[Jesse Natikara]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, what a, what a year you've had.

[Michaela]

Yeah. I was just telling you guys before, my life has not slowed down since September when season one came out. It's been just go, go, go.

[Jesse Natikara]

I know. I mean, I feel like I see even just like, your content on Instagram. I'm just like, I don't know how you have the energy or the hours in the day and you're a mom.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Yes. Like, on top of it, you know, just throw two kids in there.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right. Not a big deal. So, yeah, I guess, like, first of all, I feel like this show has taken the world by storm. I mean, the amount of people, obviously Lauren and I were raised Mormon. We're tuned in. We're, you know, tapped into all the things. But, like, the amount of coworkers I had that were like, are you watching Secret Lives of Mormon? Like, people who have no ties to Utah or Mormon culture.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, it's just, it's totally taken the world by storm. So I can't imagine how crazy this is for you being, you know, like, front and center in all of this. Like, how, how are you doing? How are you doing with all the craziness?

[Michaela]

It's, you know what? I was born for it. Like, I live on chaos. Like, I truly thrive when life is chaotic. Even when I have a day off, I'm like, what can I be doing? Like, I'm so bad at like, sitting still. So I love it. It's also crazy. Like, it's so busy and so chaotic and fun. But I always tell people, like, you watch the show and you're like, this is dramatic. Like, imagine living it. Like, I'm like, I am tired from that.

[Jesse Natikara]

I'm sure. I can't imagine just knowing how, like, season one was pretty, like, action packed and season two was not a letdown. Like, I don't know, you guys just, you. You brought it. Okay. But before we get into the show and like, the past two seasons and you know what we can talk about for the next season? Yeah, let's talk about, like, your background and, like, who you were before the show.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Can you talk at all about, like, being raised lds? Like, give us some background on you.

[Michaela]

Yeah. So I grew up in the Mormon bubble in Utah, and everyone's lds, so even if you're not lds, you're surrounded by it. And I grew up Mormon. My parents met at byu, got married in the temple, did the whole thing. My dad went on a mission, but he left the church when I was like, four or five, I think.

[Jordan]

Really?

[Michaela]

Yeah. So because of that, I always tell people I was raised like a mutt. Like, I have a little Mormon, a little Mormon in me. But it was cool because my mom took us all to church, so we still grew up in it, but my dad wasn't. So I still had, like, the occasional Sunday where we would go to the movies as a family instead. So I feel like I had, like, a good balance, which I think is why I'm so, like, chill as a Mormon. Like, I just am, like, whatever. And then occasionally we would, you know, go to church with my mom and then miss church with my mom and be with my dad. But it never felt divided. So I feel like I had a really good upbringing with that. But I left the church probably, like, five or six years ago, and my sisters left before me. So no one in my family's super active anymore. So now we've kind of all, you know, but not of that. But I still have family and friends, employees. Everyone in my life is pretty much Mormon. So it's always been ingrained in me.

[Jesse Natikara]

And obviously it's the culture that you're steeped in, living in Utah, having your business, you know. Like, I feel like there's probably a little bit of an energy with being, you know, in the Utah bubble and being a businesswoman. Like, what was that like?

[Michaela]

So I own a hair school on top of my salon and extension company, which is so Fun. But it's all, like, younger students coming to get their license, so they're there for nine months. And when the show first got announced and the name came out, I had students just freaking out. I had to go to my school and hold, like, a press conference and, like, calm them down and be like, I am so sorry that, like, this offend you. If it offends you, I promise it's not what it looks like. And in that moment, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, it really hit me that, like, this could affect my business because I filmed the show and I wasn't worried at all. But the name triggered people being in Utah county, so I was really, really scared. And then when the trailer came out, I don't know if you guys remember, but Mormons, like, did not like it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, oh, didn't the church, like, really.

[Michaela]

The church had a statement about us and then Heretic, the movie about missionaries. So it was, like, about both of our shows, and I was panicking. I was like, I've spent eight years building my business being reputable in Utah county, and what if I lose everything? So I was really nervous. But then the show came out, and I think it was such a flip of what people thought it was going to be. And they were like, oh, like, now Mormons love the show. And so we haven't had issues since then. But I was very, very panicked for a minute. Like, oh, I'm ruining my life.

[Jesse Natikara]

Okay. That kind of leads me to another question. Like, if you're walking through Target, you know, in the neighborhood, like, do you feel like the majority of people are warm and great, or do you feel like, is there ever an energy of, like, this person's, like, bringing this, like, light to the church or something?

[Michaela]

I would say, for the most part, people are just excited to meet us. If they see us in person, like, they're stoked.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I'm trying to think. I don't think I've had actually a single bad reaction. Wasn't online. Online, I'm always getting comments. Right. But in person, everyone's been amazing.

[Jesse Natikara]

Good. That's me happy. Good, good, good.

[Michaela]

I mean, you know how Utah can be.

[Jesse Natikara]

No. Yeah. Honestly.

[Michaela]

But also, I don't go to church. I always tell the girls that are active, like, you're brave. Like, I can't imagine going to my ward every Sunday after being on this show.

[Jesse Natikara]

No, literally. I mean, what does Zach say in this season? Like, that he kind of stopped going to church because. So that was kind of funny that he. His reasoning for Stopping going to church was because people weren't nice to him rather than something.

[Michaela]

Which is funny because I think it actually opened their eyes to how judgmental the culture can be. Really? Yes. And I think Jen and Zach actually were that way for a minute, and it made them realize, like, oh, my gosh, that's a problem. Yeah. And they've been amazing, like, ever since, because I. I used to have conversations with Jen where she was like, well, would you ever come back? And, like, it just kind of felt like she was trying to get me back. And since the show's come out and they kind of received a little heat, I think it made them realize that, like, oh, my gosh, we don't need to be that way. But when you're raised that way, you're in such a bubble of thinking. That's normal.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right. And when you aren't judged necessarily, you're like, oh, we're not judgmental. Yeah. But then the minute that that spotlight is turned on you, like, oh, wow, this. This is the way it can be.

[Michaela]

And you're also in Utah County. You don't think you're judgmental because you're around people who do the same thing as you.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yes.

[Michaela]

But when you're exposed to the whole world, that's when you're like, oh, maybe it's not okay.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Speaking of Jen and Zach.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

I'm very curious about your feelings about Jen. And she quits mid season. She's obviously having, like, a lot of stress in her life. Do you think that we'll see her again? Can you speak to that at all?

[Michaela]

I think you will. You guys have seen that she's around the group. You know, you've seen her online with us. But a lot more will unfold with her story. Okay. Kind of where they were at and if they come back. But, um, I will say with Jen and Zach, they've been through such a journey, and I'm so proud of them for, like, how they've handled it because they got more hate than anyone should have to. Well, as a married couple, like, I. I can't imagine.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But.

[Jesse Natikara]

But I.

[Jordan]

One thing I will say, because we were pretty up in arms hating on.

[Michaela]

Zach after the first event after Vegas.

[Jesse Natikara]

You'Re just like, how. I mean, I think you said it literally in the. Like, it's just like how you can't come back from these things that you're saying.

[Michaela]

Yes. But I think you see in season two that he actually tried to, like, inward reflect and be like, that was wrong. I'm going to work on it. And I don't think many men can do that. Especially when it's so ingrained in you to be that way. Like, most people would just have an ego and be like, well, that's how I am. Like, it's okay. And I. I will say he did, like, a quick turnaround and, like, actually realized it.

[Jordan]

He did. Well, one other thing that I was pretty shocked by was, you know, the text messages he definitely wrote. You know, we can't get beyond that. And I'm not a Zach apologist.

[Michaela]

Think about it. Like, in the show, like, they showed it, but it wasn't a thing. It was the Internet that figured it out. Like, they paused it and blew it up. And that's the scary part about TikTok.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I. No, literally, I'm always afraid when I'm like, filming something in my house or something for Instagram or whatever.

[Jesse Natikara]

I'm like, what's in the background that I forgot about?

[Jordan]

Even though I don't have anything to.

[Michaela]

Hide, I kept on every little thing.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yes, they really do.

[Michaela]

Like, I think Macy had done a video. She's pregnant. You know, she had done a video a few months back before she announced the gender, and she had baby clothes hanging in the back. And people figured out the gender from that. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, you just never know.

[Jordan]

People are constantly accidentally showing their Ozempic in the refrigerator.

[Michaela]

I'm like, I'll just talk about it. I don't even have to hide it. But the Scott Disick on Kardashians. Yes. Yes.

[Jordan]

No. Okay, so the thing that I was so curious about, though, is, like, it came out that it was actually not true that he had gambled away his, like, medical or, I'm sorry, the. The earning her earnings, like, or. No, I think money that was supposed.

[Jesse Natikara]

To be used for his medical school.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jordan]

I think I heard someone say is that Jen actually wasn't even the breadwinner, which is something she really kind of was all about portraying or saying. And that he house flipped for a few years and that's actually was their primary source of income. I sound like such a stalker. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this was set on someone's podcast.

[Michaela]

No, that's true. And I will say, like, we all are the breadwinners because we are making the most money and we are, like, actually, now most of the husbands don't work, so I would say we are. But I will say, like, in my situation, I'm going to compare it to that. My Husband does solar. He hasn't done it in, like, a year or two, but at the time, like, he was doing it and bringing in money, but I was still making more. So I'm like breadwinner, but he was providing.

[Jesse Natikara]

And.

[Michaela]

And I think that's how Zach and Jen were. Like, he was bringing in money, too, but she was as well.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

And I think hers was probably more prominent from what I understood.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But I just have a prediction that Jen will potentially be the villain at some point. That's my prediction. I don't think she. I don't think she should be. And I really, really.

[Michaela]

Like, what's your reason for that?

[Jordan]

Just because I think because it seemed like it was getting teased that she, like, lied. She lied about a few things. It just seemed like that's what the narrative was being like, okay, yeah, I.

[Michaela]

Would love to speak on this, because you live, like, so many hours of footage, and then you see just a few minutes. And watching back the second season, I was humbled, I will say. Like, okay, I was mean to Jen. Like, I didn't realize how it was coming across because in real life, I was also frustrated with her and dealing with things. And like, for an example, something that wasn't shown is at the height of our disagreements, she had tried to reach out to an old family friend of mine that worked for me that no longer does to get T on me. And I was like, oh, that's so dirty. Like, you know, and so there were things like that, but you don't see that. But I think that's also why I was so frustrated, is there were things like that behind the scenes. But also, I had no clue how badly she was struggling. We were just told by Whitney that she was pregnant and sick, and that's it. And so for me, it felt like she was stepping away because of that, but also because she didn't want to handle or deal with it. So at the time, that's why I was so like, oh, she's lying. We got to get to the bottom of this. But now knowing. And I think in New Orleans, you see me start to switch. As soon as I see that video of her crying, I was like, oh, okay, if we can both just apologize, I'm good.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Whereas Demi went the other way. And honestly, as soon as I started realizing how bad she was, that's when I was like, oh, okay. And to be honest, I didn't understand the extent of how bad she was until we started filming the next set of episodes, and she actually told me so I think you'll see more of that unfold. But I did just want to say that, like, it wasn't just all out of nowhere, me being a mean girl. There was so much more to it. And you're right. There were lies and things. We were confused about trying to get to the bottom of it. And I think if she hadn't been in an emotionally unstable spot, maybe that would have happened. Yeah, she would have been the villain. Maybe I would have. Who knows? But since she had to step away, I think it just kind of, like, halted everything.

[Jordan]

Gotcha. Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

I feel like with Jen, and I like Jen.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

I think that the. The thing that I empathize with her about, or at least I just. I feel for her, is, like, everyone, like, you and Jordan, like, he's supportive. Like, he's, like, like, excited to, like, be on the show or whatever. And then there's, like. But then you see, like, her conversations with Zach when they're, like, on that walk, and you're just like, my gosh, like, if you. If I had to. This is my job. But then I have to go home to somebody who's, like, kind of. Who thinks it's like, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna extrapolate a little bit, but who thinks it's, like, cheap or trash. You're, like. Thinks you're too good for it.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, that would. That would cut me down so much, and then I would, like, lie or maybe lash out from, like, that place.

[Michaela]

Especially if you are passionate about it. Like, imagine if one of your partners, like, was like, you talk about pop culture all day. Like, that's so lame. And just feel dumb when you know our job is hard. Having drama and coming home and bringing that home with you, it is hard on the family, But Jen loves it, and she's told Zach that. So at some point, you need to just be like, okay, we're gonna do this. And I will say, do you guys, like, follow his TikTok now?

[Jordan]

No.

[Jesse Natikara]

We might have clips.

[Michaela]

He has done, like, a 180. He is, like, posting all the time. His videos are funny. Like, he's actually leaning into it now and being like, if this is what Jen wants, I'm gonna do it. And he's, like, totally turned it around. So really, honestly, kudos to you.

[Jordan]

We love a redemption arc.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And not even just happy, like, in real life.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I wouldn't say that, like, I'm. Hon. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't say it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But he really has, like, embraced it. But you're right. At the time, he was so against it that I think she really was like, okay, well, I have to please my friends and my job, but also him. And when you're stuck in between a rock and a hard place and you're trying to please everyone, I think that's what happened. Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Where. Where do you stand with Taylor these days?

[Michaela]

Oh, me and Taylor are so close. I love her. Really? Yes. She is one of a kind. Like, Taylor is so great because she makes mistakes. She can be messy. She's had a past, obviously, but she owns it. And every time she does something wrong, she's like, yeah, that was petty. Or, like, that was dumb. But she learns from it. And I feel like that is so inspirational, not just as her friend, but as, like, viewers to be like, oh, she's not perfect, but she's, like, showing what you can do when you make a mistake and turn it around. And she'll even be the first to admit that, like, she is not anywhere where she should be. Like, her and Dakota are still figuring it out. She has to. Still figuring it out. Every day is different. Genuinely. I have no idea.

[Jesse Natikara]

Every day they can call me.

[Michaela]

I can have a child together. So I know there will always be that element of figuring it out. Like, even if they're not together, they're gonna have to figure out co parenting. But so many people can relate to that. So I love her, and I think next season, you guys will see that I'm a little more vulnerable in my personal life, and she was such an inspiration to me, gave me so much advice on how to handle that publicly, and I really appreciated that. Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

How. How do you feel about Dakota? Where do you. Where.

[Michaela]

I love him as a person. I think he's really great as a person, but I don't love him. With Taylor, I think they bring out the worst in each other. In a relationship, you don't say, yeah, like, can you tell? But I do think, as a person, he is just, like, he's like a golden retriever. Like, he's just genuinely, like, just trying to figure it out. And sometimes he's a little, like, sloppy with it and, like, goofy. But, like, I don't think he has bad intentions.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I don't know. It's so hard because as Taylor's friend, if I'm just thinking that way, I'm like, get away from him. Like, stop. But then when I'm, like, with Dakota and I'm talking to him, I'm like, you do Have a good heart. You're just making dumb mistakes. It's so hard.

[Jesse Natikara]

He to me, and I say this with love. He to me is like encapsulation of like, bless his heart.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

Bless his heart.

[Michaela]

Like he's trying. Yes, he really is trying.

[Jesse Natikara]

He's not like maybe necessarily the guy you want for your friend. Yeah. Who like.

[Michaela]

But he's not like evil. Like he's not a bad guy. He's just made some dumb mistakes and unfortunately it's all public.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Chan, I have a friend, she's very esteemed. Forbes 30 under 30 has a very impressive company. She's the CEO. She's a tycoon. She sits on boards or whatever. She has a lot going on in her brain.

[Jesse Natikara]

Why is she friends with you?

[Jordan]

That is honestly the million dollar question. But I have to tell you, I got a text from her husband the other day and he said thank you so much for recommending Early Bird cbd. She has honestly been able to just chill out a little bit. So much more. She takes half a gummy and it has been life changing for her. We cannot swear by Early Bird CBD gummies more in our households.

[Jesse Natikara]

They are the only gummies that I reach for.

[Jordan]

They help you in the middle of the night. Just get back to sleep. If you want to enjoy a show more, a delicious meal, melt into that pillow of yours, you guys. Oliver cbd.com use code pop apologist for 20% off. You will not regret it. And a bottle lasts a long time. That's early bird. CBD.com use code popapologist for 20% off.

[Jesse Natikara]

Pop apologists is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there and hoping it all works out well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help you find options within your budget. Try it [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Jordan]

I'm curious. You know at the saints and sinners party when Taylor brings up the hair thing?

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jordan]

How do you come back from that given that this is like your business? This is something she's bringing up on national television.

[Michaela]

Like, was I mad at Taylor?

[Jordan]

Yeah, I would have been the most mad at Taylor.

[Michaela]

It was funny because I guess in the moment I was so shocked by the demi of it and actually do you guys want a little, like, behind the scenes?

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah, always.

[Michaela]

This is. And I think it kind of explains why I was so, like, shocked. In the moment is me and Demi have the same energy healer. Do you guys believe in that stuff?

[Jordan]

Wait, I mean, what's her name?

[Michaela]

Her name's Gabby and has changed my life. Like, really? Yeah. She, like, does energy healing and, like, all that.

[Jesse Natikara]

I'm open to it. I don't know if you guys.

[Michaela]

I should set you up with her. She'll change your life. Anyway, me and Demi had been going to her, and before Saints and Sinners, we had actually done a combined session because we knew going into it, we were going into this conversation with Taylor.

[Jesse Natikara]

You did the same energy healing session?

[Michaela]

Yes. Bring in the devil and the angels? No. But we knew that we were seeing Taylor for the first time since cma, so we wanted to just do a grounding session. Like, she can just ground you and make sure you handle it the right way. And we were doing that. And in the moment, Demi was just telling her, like, I want to handle this the right way. I don't want to fly off the handle. I can be really passionate. And then she started crying, and she was like, I just feel so protective of Jesse, and I just have a feeling that Taylor's going to try to bring up something to separate us. And I was like, wait, she just has a feeling to me. Oh, wow. So it was almost like she kind of knew Taylor had that in her pocket, and she was setting the stage to me to be like, taylor's gonna try to do something. We have to stay strong. And I was like, that was weird, but I didn't think much of it. So then when it happened, I was like, oh, Demi totally knew that this was coming out at some point. And I think that probably Demi was afraid of it coming out the whole time. So I was more just like, damn. Like, she knew and she didn't tell me herself. So that's why I was, like, so upset. But I wasn't ever mad at Taylor. Cause I think Taylor honestly, like, yeah, she probably used it in the moment because she was mad at Demi and on tv, whatever. But I think Taylor genuinely has so much going on in her life that when it happened in the moment, I think she kind of just forgot and was like, eh, not a big deal. But I think then seeing how much closer me and Demi got with time, she was like, oh. And then when Demi was saying things about her, she was like, well, I'm gonna say this about you. Yeah, but no, I didn't blame Taylor for it. Really?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Okay, maybe I should have, but I didn't.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

I feel like because you, like, have built this very successful business, you're just, like, established, like a lot more established than the other women. You know, I would say, like, I mean, not with love, but you're, you know, you're just like, built.

[Michaela]

Well, I had it before, mom.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

I just feel like there's more things to throw stones at. Like, unfortunately, you know, it's like, it's not just like. Yeah, well.

[Michaela]

And it's also rocks at things that shine. Exactly.

[Jesse Natikara]

Just like our. Our Lord and savior Taylor Swift says.

[Jordan]

Well, and they also. It's also laughable because they all have, like, very similar Jay Z styled hair. Like, everyone has Jay Styles hair that they're like. But it's not good.

[Michaela]

Everyone's wearing my hair. Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse Natikara]

Every three scenes are like, at your salon, like, getting.

[Michaela]

No, you guys. My favorite part of the whole show, I don't know if you caught this was the confessional where Jen's like, I'm no longer going to Jay Z. Styles. The next scene, she's wearing a JayZ Styles sweatshirt. I was like, you know what? That's poetic, though. Like, you're right. Like, I'll just keep laughing to the bank, literally.

[Jordan]

How has it been for business being on the show?

[Michaela]

It's been great. And I actually was worried because when the Demi drama happened, that was my biggest fear is that my business would be seen as a joke. No one would want to come to us.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And it's not just me. Like, I actually don't really do hair anymore because of how busy I am, but I have 17 stylists and 50 students that are in my business. I don't want it to affect them, but it's been great. I think that the lucky thing for me is Jay Z. Styles is the one, like, place on the show that you can go visit.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Go to Taylor's house. You can't. You know, like, we go to, like, a few of the same restaurants, but it's the one place you can come. And so easy.

[Jordan]

Film.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Photos.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And there were so many scenes at the salon that you, like, see that you're like, that's so cool.

[Jesse Natikara]

Totally.

[Michaela]

So I think for us, it's really lucky because people come to see it. Yeah. And so it's actually been amazing for business.

[Jordan]

Oh, I'm sure. Are there a lot of people who are trying to get appointments with Jesse at JC Styles?

[Michaela]

Yes. I don't Take clients anymore. But I get so many dms. I think we get a lot of calls. Luckily, my mom takes the clients now. Well, not now. She's always done it. But she has a following on TikTok, too. And I think being Jesse's mom, too, they're like, oh, yeah. You know, so that helps that she can do that. But I will say that I was really nervous about it, rocking the business, and I think that I've learned, like, any publicity is good publicity.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And we made sweatshirts, kind of profiting off of the drama. Like, I, like, bad at hair, like, you know, just to be funny. And so I'm like, people are like, people have actually been so supportive. Like, how dare she say that? And that's been awesome.

[Jesse Natikara]

Also, when Macy was doing her, like, a ball thing, and you're like, we gotta start your hair. And I was just like, wait, it's so sweet that you do with people's hair. Like, literally on the. Like, it's so nice. Okay. So, yeah, kind of brings me to, like, a little bit of a logistical question, but, like, okay, when they're. When people are coming in for the Saints and sinners party to get their hair done.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Are they paying for that or no?

[Michaela]

No. Yeah. They're not. Like, I have, like, an influencer deal with all of the girls on the show. So just, like, with any influencer that would come get their hair done, we say, like, okay, you come get your hair done. We do free extensions, color, whatever, and then you do X amount of posts. So, like, they'll do a TikTok that they got their hair done. Like, yeah, me and Macy did a funny one the other day where I was, like, kissing her on the forehead while doing her hair. Like, so it pays off. And also now, like, is good exposure for me to have the girls coming to Jay Z. But when I style their hair for events for girls trips, that's not part of it. I'm just doing it because they're my friends. Like, any girls trip, like, in New Orleans, on the witch night, when we were all in black, I did Leila's updo. I did Macy's hair. I did my hair. I did. Did I do Demi's? I did at least four of us. I at least have three or four of them that I'm doing their hair then trying to do my own.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And that's just because I'm the friend that does. And I never complain about it, but I said it to Demi because I'm like, it did make me feel Like, I've done so much. Demi, of all people, got a free wash and style every single week at my school from the beginning of season one until all that happened.

[Jordan]

Wow.

[Michaela]

And I offered it, but she was there every week. And so her, of all people, I was like, really? And it's like, it just made me feel taken advantage of the whole situation, too.

[Jesse Natikara]

It, like, didn't feel, like, actually believable because everyone is going to your salon all the time. Everyone is entrusting you with their hair.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

If anyone was actually worried about it, they wouldn't be going.

[Michaela]

Exactly. And I think she had made a comment like, well, I just heard other girls were unhappy, but we cleared it up because I talked to all the other girls, and Layla was like, well, you took me blonde, and I didn't like it on me. That doesn't mean I didn't like you.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

But Layla asked to be blonde, so she was like. It was just. I didn't like it on my skin tone, but Demi kind of twisted it into, like, she thought you did a bad job. And she goes, I never thought that. It was just not my color.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

So it was things like that where it sucked because I was like, she was just trying to twist it to make sure everyone looked bad.

[Jesse Natikara]

Totally. Just, like, making it kind of icky.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Speaking of Layla, who do you think really belongs in mom talk?

[Jesse Natikara]

Do you really think real, real veiled? Lauren.

[Michaela]

Okay, so do you feel like Layla is just, like, a wallflower?

[Jordan]

Honestly, I think Layla gave a lot. I thought even just her scenes with the boyfriend this season were, like, so funny. Him, like, being so weird about. He was okay with weed gummies, but not okay with smoking.

[Jesse Natikara]

Is that what it was? No.

[Michaela]

He was such a Utah culture.

[Jesse Natikara]

He was. They were having full sex, but he was like, but I'm not going to drink.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

My dad's a bishop.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

It's just like. I mean, it's. It's something that kind of gets under my skin a little bit.

[Michaela]

Sexuals in the worst of this.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yes. This is supposed to be the worst one. Next murder.

[Michaela]

Exactly.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

That's why we're so scared of it is right?

[Jesse Natikara]

Layla cracks me up because, like, she had this. We were kind of rewatching it just to prepare a little bit, and there's this one scene where she's like, I feel bad because I didn't stand up.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Or Taylor, you know, at the Saints and sinners party.

[Michaela]

Like, she's like, oh, just like, okay.

[Jordan]

So Layla, she's a cute deer in the Headlights.

[Michaela]

I'm so proud of her because she was. For a long time and the last, like, six months, I've seen such growth in her.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Like, in interviews we've done together, like, she's more outspoken and filming the next set of episodes. You guys will see. I think you're going to see that she stands up for me specifically a lot and, like, kind of goes at some people, and I was like, not that that's like, a good quality. Like, yeah, go at her. But she needed that.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And she really does, like, show.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I think you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised, because you're right. In season two, she just kind of sat back, and I think that was her just being afraid of confrontation and being nervous to speak up. But no, she's come a long way, and I hope that you see that next.

[Jordan]

Yeah. No, I want to see more of Layla.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

You know who I could do without? Miranda.

[Michaela]

Okay. I know it felt like Miranda came in hot and had all this stuff came in hot from, like, the. The image of.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Like, oh, she's gonna spill the tea.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. And she was a part of the original, like, Scandal. Like, she had, like, she had a crazy history.

[Michaela]

I mean, honestly, I feel like Chase came in hotter. Like, Chase had some receipts to drop and things to say. But the thing with Miranda is we were all nervous for her to come on for that reason, because we're protective of Taylor. Miranda's the nicest person you'll ever meet. I love her so much. And that's what's hard, is for reality tv, maybe that's not fun to watch.

[Jordan]

Exactly.

[Michaela]

In real life, I love having her as a friend and I love having her a part of the group. So I could see why the viewers thought that is towards the end, like, she just wasn't involved in the drama.

[Jesse Natikara]

Exactly.

[Michaela]

But I actually think for season, her first season, that was smart of her to not, like, come in and annihilate everyone and alienate herself.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I think she did the right thing by playing it safe. And maybe in the future you'll see more of her personality and stuff.

[Jordan]

But does she have a spicy side to her personality? She does.

[Michaela]

Okay. She does. And I think you just. I think a lot of it gets lost, especially in season two with Taylor having such a big storyline and to me, having such a big personality.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Everyone else kind of gets lost in the shuffle.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Michaela]

But I think you'll see more of Miranda.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. Let me just say at the Halloween party, Chase was acting for his life, or maybe not even acting like he. He deserves a paycheck for that episode.

[Michaela]

I know. He.

[Jesse Natikara]

He reality tv.

[Michaela]

He really was. And he's dating my friend and my friend Tate.

[Jesse Natikara]

Wait, they're still dating?

[Michaela]

I think so. It depends. Oh, my gosh. It's like a Dakota and Taylor. It's different every day.

[Jesse Natikara]

Bless his heart.

[Michaela]

I will say I hated Chase for a long time, and I still don't love him. But I will say that I see the benefit of him on reality tv, because he is gonna say it how it is. He's always in the comments of every video. He's probably gonna be in the comments of this. Hi, Chase. So I will say he is made for it. I don't know if I love him for my friend, but it is entertaining to watch.

[Jordan]

Speaking of the husbands, who. Which husband do you think is the thirstiest?

[Michaela]

My husband, in the best way, because he loves it. And he's always like, what can we do to, like, get attention or get views and stuff? But I will say I love that, because that's a huge part of my business is, like, being online. He's gonna kill me. He's sitting, like, what? Being online and just, like, being, like, in the public eye. Like, years ago, I was like, we need to start vlogging and doing family vlogs. And we did. And he's always been a good sport with it, so I'm grateful that he's just, like, willing to play the game. Yes. Like, be a part of it and he'll admit it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, you know, he's supportive. Also, it's like. It's not like he takes himself so seriously. Like, kind of like a Zach, where it's like, I'm. I'm above this, you know?

[Michaela]

Or like, Jason, Jacob are, like, the sweetest, nicest guys, but they're just not about the online life.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Jacob's been a little more active, but Jace is like, this is not for me.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I would say, like, because of that, like, they wouldn't be thirsty at all. Whereas there's some men who are, like, willing to lean into it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

A little bit.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

What do we think about Whitney's husband evolving aesthetic in the first season? Like, his looks, and he seemed to kind of, like, land on a. On a color palette for season two.

[Michaela]

Okay, this is the funny. So Connor had gotten a hair transplant during the pilot, and then all of season one, he was going through growing it out, and my husband got one. So did Dakota, just recently. And so I've now seen firsthand what it Looks like you're having, like, weird hair come in. You're having to, like, brush it a certain way to cover it. I think, at one point.

[Jordan]

Gotcha.

[Michaela]

Just to, like, see if that would help. I think that's really why. But now knowing Connor, he's had the same look for two years, so I think that's what it was.

[Jesse Natikara]

Okay.

[Jordan]

That actually makes so much more sense because I'm like, this guy seems like he's trying to find himself.

[Jesse Natikara]

He's.

[Michaela]

You know, everyone thought that. But no, Connor is like, from what. When I think of Connor, it's like, mustache, dark, short hair. And it's been that way for.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Michaela]

I think he finally had it growing and he landed on it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right. I love that. I like. That's helpful context. I'm like, mazel.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

Happy for him.

[Michaela]

Exactly.

[Jordan]

I think it's so interesting. Like, he obviously was on. I think the scandal was. He was on Tinder or one of them.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

It's so interesting because, like, Mormons get married so young, and, like, the culture is so strange and so almost. I. I find that these, like, growing pains. And obviously to do that when you're married, have children is awful. I'm not condoning it in any way, but I do think, like, given people's histories, they really don't have phases where they kind of just like, sow their wild oats or do anything. It can lead to a lot of, like, stifled repression. And I think it is cool that they are. You know, they've evolved past it or have grown past it and are making it work. Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because a lot of people can relate.

[Jordan]

Totally.

[Michaela]

And I agree. I think that in the Mormon culture, you get a get married. So young men usually go on the mission, and the whole mission is like, get home and get married. You know, like, have kids. That's your purpose. And then women, it's like, your purpose is to raise a family so you don't get to experience life. You don't know who you are. I got married for the first time at 22, which is so funny when I think about it. It was, like, so old to me.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

In my culture, everyone else was married at 19. So I was like, I'm so old, but no, that's so young. And me and my husband grew apart. And then I got married again at 28, and it was like, night and day different.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

28. Still young, but, like, I just changed so much.

[Jesse Natikara]

You're a different person. Your brain is a different brain some degree, you know? You know, so much more about who you are and what you want.

[Michaela]

Your frontal lobe isn't even developed.

[Jesse Natikara]

No.

[Michaela]

Like, it's crazy. It's crazy to me. You can rent a car at 25, but you can get married at any age. Like, you have to wait till.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Michaela]

To rent a car, but you can have a marriage. Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse Natikara]

I think crazy, like, that's one thing about the show. Like, there's such a range of ages.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

With like, some of the, like, the women being so young and having gotten married so young. Like Layla, who got married young, like.

[Michaela]

Like, and then divorced, like, 23.

[Jesse Natikara]

Crazy.

[Michaela]

And yeah, I'm like 10 years older than Layla sometimes because we're all together, but yeah, she's so young.

[Jesse Natikara]

Well, and I think you kind of. I don't know, I think you can kind of tell, like, the people who have just, like, had a little bit more life experience have a little bit more wisdom.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

And it makes me happy, I guess, that, like, that everyone is, for the most part, is, like, still friends.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

And that there's like. I don't know that it's like, there's empathy there.

[Michaela]

There is. And I think that in a friendship group like ours, like, you know, after the scandal with Taylor, the group dissipated, but then the show happened, so everyone had to get back together. And I'm sure that that's an element of it is like, we're co workers. We don't want to be fighting all the. We want to enjoy our time together. We're doing all these amazing things and opportunities. We want to get along, you know, So I think that does help. But I think it's great our cast has such a range of ages because you're right, like, there's girls who are young going through. Through things for the first time, and then girls who have been through it and have a little more wisdom. And I think that helps our cast be, like, so well balanced.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah, absolutely. This is an ad by Better Help. As a full time podcaster, I feel like I'm never really off the clock. There's always something to plan, post, or follow up on. And lately I've really felt that workplace stress creeping in. Apparently, I'm not alone. 61% of the global workforce is feeling it too. And, you know, we can't all go on vacation or work gets overwhelming, but we can take small steps. Even stepping away for a quick walk helps me reset, you know, ground myself, remember what matters. And when I need even more support, that's where therapy comes in. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. With 5 million people served globally, it's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] Popapologists that's better. H E L P.com Popapologists this show is sponsored by Better Help.

[E]

I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blakely Thornton. Join us for yesterdays, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve. The things that got us riled up during dial up, those makeouts that should have been breakouts and the drops that were cemented in pop. I'm talking Bennifer, Tyra versus Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch, and so much more. So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you get audio related content. We also take Venmo and cash app ach or credit card number as well. We're malleable, you know, we're gay.

[Jesse Natikara]

Today I want to ask you about swinging and you.

[Michaela]

Okay, great. Like, it's a thing that.

[Jordan]

This is a good job. Chan.

[Jesse Natikara]

I like, I mean, obviously before the show, I like, had heard about it in like, Daybreak.

[Michaela]

I had heard that, like, like the gym. I didn't even know about the special gym. And Daybreak. That photo I've heard.

[Jesse Natikara]

Incredible. Yeah, I had heard about like, the upside down pineapples or whatever in your shopping cart and like the way you signal it and all of those.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

But like, I'm so curious then, like, you know, and I actually thought swinging was something that only happened between, like, I would say older couples.

[Michaela]

Me too.

[Jesse Natikara]

People who were like, had been married for a long time.

[Michaela]

Did you know there's like cruises.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yes. Spicy cruises.

[Michaela]

Yes. Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

I've gotten some of those reels.

[Michaela]

No way. Like, it's like my algorithm now because it's part of the show. But. But I feel like that was what I thought too.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah, I totally thought it was like, people who had been. Who had, like, teenagers.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

Anyway, so then we like, everything happens with like, with Taylor and you find out, oh, my gosh. It's like people who just are like all of our ages and, you know, they just like, still got married young. Whatever. How prevalent do you feel like swinging is in Utah?

[Jordan]

Like I don't think.

[Jesse Natikara]

And were you ever approached before? Like, was that a part of you on your radar at all before the show?

[Michaela]

Well, okay, so I don't think there's, like, a big swinging community that hasn't been, like, exposed yet. I think that there are probably a lot of situations, like Taylor's, where it's young couples who got married young, never experienced life, and then are drinking with their friends for the first time and playing games.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

So I think on season two, I said, like, I had a swinging situation and Jen used it against me. That's what happened to me is me and my husband got married in the temple. Very Mormon. We were drinking and we would play truth or dare and kiss each other.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But, like, that's all it happened.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

So I said swinging because I'm like, that's what it is in Utah, swinging. So I think there's a lot of stuff like that where you're just so young and stifled and you have no chance to live. And then if your partner's open to it, why not?

[Jesse Natikara]

Well, it's like you're basically in college. Like, you're still.

[Michaela]

You're. Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

You're like, you might as well be.

[Michaela]

In college because it's like you're experimenting.

[Jesse Natikara]

You're experimenting and you've never experimented before. But, like, you're married, and so it's like you've.

[Michaela]

You've done everything right situation like that. You almost feel safer because you're married and your friends and, like, people, you know, you're like, oh, this is like, not like a trashy, experimental phase. This is totally. You know what I mean?

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. Well, and it's like, we've all, like, gotten married in the tumbler. We're all, like, kind of have the perfect life from. Yes. You know, I mean, I went to byu.

[Michaela]

BYU has like, a secret hidden party scene.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yes. Party scene. And also, I think that there's just like. Like, people who are just like, kind of doing a lot of other things besides sex.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

And, like, I knew about that. That was like. That was. That's a part of the picture pole. Yes.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

And so anyway, when. When Miranda and Taylor. When there's that split screen and Taylor's dusting off everything that they did, my brain broke a little bit because I was like. I thought, like, I thought that the part of UIU that I experienced was cringy and, like, crazy. And then I heard about, like, showering with another couple. Like.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

Having sex on a one bed next to each other.

[Michaela]

And I'm just like, you know, so funny.

[Jesse Natikara]

I'm like, you know, it's crazy.

[Michaela]

It does. And it's so funny because when I saw that scene, didn't phase me at all. Cause I've heard this a million times. So hearing you guys react to it, I'm like, oh, it is crazy. But, like, to me, I'm like, oh, yeah, I knew that. I knew. Like, we've talked about it with Taylor for so many years. And that's why when Miranda came in and she was downplaying it all, we were like, like, girl. Yeah. And I think a lot of people gave me for being like, I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. But it's because for years, I had heard all of that. Miranda came in being like, that didn't happen. So I was like, is Taylor lying?

[Jesse Natikara]

Right?

[Michaela]

Like, we have to get to the bottom of this. And we did. But you're right, like, hearing all that when, like, you remove yourself from being in it, I'm like, oh, that is crazy.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right? Especially when you've been in, like, a person in, like, the normal world, just dating and knowing they. Yeah, totally.

[Michaela]

I think that's why her scandal blew up so much. As they were known as, like, these Mormon moms. And then it was like, whoa. Well.

[Jesse Natikara]

And some of them, like, like, believe in the church still.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Which ones are still active Mormon.

[Michaela]

Okay. So Taylor still believes, and I think she does. Still considers herself Mormon. Like, she'll go to church every once in a while, but not, like, consistently.

[Jesse Natikara]

She is just.

[Jordan]

She's an enigma.

[Jesse Natikara]

An enigma.

[Michaela]

She really is. And she has no shame. She'll walk in there and not care that she's Taylor, Frankie, Paul. And I love it. But I will say I like the way she looks at it, because she's like, church is for the sick. Like, I'm going to a hospital for my heart. And I'm like, actually true.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Right now, like, why would you go if you're perfect? I mean, yeah, there are people like that, but she needs the help. And she's like, I. I'll admit it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So that's Taylor. Macy's pretty active. Her and her husband have callings, so.

[Jesse Natikara]

They'Re like, pretty much don't drink, right? They don't. Yeah.

[Michaela]

Macy did in the past. In her book that comes out, she, like, goes over all that. I don't think her husband. Her husband maybe did in the past, but, like, no, not anymore. So they're pretty active. Michaela and Jace are not, but they, like, also don't drink, like, a ton. So, like, they're not like these crazy people that party or anything. Layla's out of the church. Miranda's out of the church. I'm out of the church. Jen and Zach are in the church. But I think you saw them, like, season two maybe questioning it. And I think. I think that's kind of still where they're at, is like, half in, half out.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Who else do we have? Demi? I don't know. But, like, I think Demi always liked to be like, no, I'm super active. But then, like, I never saw her go to church, so I have no idea.

[Jesse Natikara]

And she's, like, drinking on the show.

[Michaela]

Did she drink?

[Jesse Natikara]

Well, didn't she, like, have champagne? I don't know. Like, I'm. Now I feel like I'm kind of.

[Michaela]

Judgmental, but I think. I don't think she drank. Yeah. I think she, like, cheers with it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Okay.

[Michaela]

Okay. But she does ketamine, so, like. Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Oh, my gosh. And the ketamine. Like, what did somebody say? Like, you know, the church doesn't have an official stance on ketamine.

[Michaela]

Yes. Because to us, it's like this medical therapy thing, but when you think about it, it's like the laughing gas for the Botox. It's like a loophole to get high. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Whitney's super active.

[Michaela]

Yes. But you know what's so funny to me? I've done a lot of interviews with her recently because we were in Europe together, and Whitney's the only returned missionary on our cast.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Michaela]

And she would get asked all these questions, like, why can't Mormons drink? Or why can they drink soda but not coffee? Why do you do this? And this and this? And every time she was like, that's just something you'll have to ask God when we get there. And I'm like, you were a missionary. What did you say to people when they asked? And I think it speaks to the Utah culture of just. Just doing a religion because you're raised.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And you go on a mission because it's what. What's expected. And I've kind of seen that with Whitney. Like, I don't think she really understood why she went on a mission. She just did it. And her answers, I think, have shown that. And I thought that was interesting.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I don't know. But, yeah, I think she's. She's active, but, like, she swears all the time and, like, is more loose.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. I mean, also. And the truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that, like, the answers don't really make sense. Why you don't. You can drink Diet Coke, but not. Not like iced coffee.

[Michaela]

You can have a Red Bull.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But not a lot.

[Jesse Natikara]

Literally. But not bean juice.

[Michaela]

Exactly. It makes no sense. I think it needs to be updated.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And kind of like with the garments, how they're getting a little more. Yes. Immodest. I think it'll be the same thing with coffee eventually. Yeah.

[Jordan]

I'll just fall off.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right. Right.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Everyone's relationship to the Mormonism of it all is very interesting. I find that, like, in Utah, I feel like there's more people who are culturally Mormon, but don't. Not necessarily. Like, they might go to church. Every once in a while, they kind of fall in line, whereas I feel. And they basically do what they want. Whereas in other places, I feel like being Mormon is so hard. And not everyone is Mormon, so it's. It's actually just way easier to stop versus pretend you still are, you know, true.

[Michaela]

Because it's almost like keeping up with the Joneses, like, for the appearance of it and because family and friends may expect it, but the older you get, like, you have to really look inward and be like, does this align with me?

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

Or is it just what I've always been taught? Yeah. Right.

[Jesse Natikara]

How do you feel about kind of Mikayla drawing, like, such a clear line in the sand with Winnie? Are you kind of like, get over it? Like, let's move on. How do you feel about that?

[Michaela]

A little bit of both. Mikayla's one of my best friends, so I will always stand by her no matter what. And she was really hurt by Whitney. There was so much context, just not shown in both seasons because of timing. Like, you can't show everything. And I think in season two, there were probably three conversations outside of what was shown of the same thing of Whitney, just, like, not really getting it. And then the one that was shown was, like, the final one. Me and Michaela actually met with Whitney at a diner and we had a big discussion. And the whole time she was, like, not getting it. There was one part where I had said to her, like, I just don't know if I should believe you because you're an actress. And she's like, you think I'm an actress? And I was like, Whitney, like, that's where I don't know if you're genuine.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, a little scary.

[Michaela]

Exactly. So we had just seen little moments like that. And Mikayla's history with her goes so deep, like, they were best friends before the show. So I Think there's a lot of feelings.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I do think that Mikayla is very justified in how she feels. But I will say that, like, for the sake of our show and being co workers, I hope it can just kind of like, like go away.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because like, I do want to be able to do things as a group. I want to come together and have fun. Like the group that we have outside of Demi and Whitney, we have so much fun together. And if Demi and Whitney are a part of this, I want us to all be able to do that. So I do hope at some point it could just be civil. No more videos being made.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

We're done being petty and we can just like be cordial but not be friends. And I think that Michaela is getting there. Like, I really do. But we're on a reality show. Like, don't you want the drama, like your heightened emotions, like, Right. It's good for tv. And I think when you're in that, you're like, like so invested in it because you're so emotionally charged. But in a day to day setting. I don't think she thinks about Whitney.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

It's just when we're forced to talk.

[Jesse Natikara]

About it totally well. And like, I get it when, you know, she said, like from, from my own health, like with the health struggles that she deals with if it causes.

[Michaela]

Her stress because after they stopped being friends, her skin got so much better for a while. So I do think that not Whitney in general, but any emotional stress, like your body keeps the score and Mikayla does need to be mindful about that and being pregnant now too though.

[Jesse Natikara]

So I will say I think Whitney like did a pretty good job considering how hated she was coming like out of season one. Like, I feel like this, this season, like there were so many conversations about her in front of her and like, whether or not everyone wanted to still be friends or she's just like sitting there and I would like, weird. That would be hard. That would be hard, you know?

[Michaela]

Yeah. And I will say Whitney came into season two a lot softer than season one. And I was impressed with her. We were all cautious and nervous. But she did prove herself and she did soften a lot of us. And I think at the end you see that most of us are like, yeah, like, it's fine. Yeah, we know Michaela will never be best friends with her, but like, we're all good with this.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right? I think Whitney doesn't always feel like a girl's girl to me. And like, and maybe that's just My perception, I obviously don't know her. And so I think, like, when you have a friend like that that is mistreats you or whatever, and then you also don't feel like they even, like, warm up to you in a girl's girl kind of way. It's what's left of, you know.

[Michaela]

Yeah. And I think that with everything that happened in season one with Whitney, we were just cautious. And it's so funny to see how the Internet plays such a role in things, because season one, the whole Internet was so mean to Whitney. Yeah. Everyone hated her. Right. But then season two comes around. Michaela's giving her that same energy, and now the Internet's like, michaela's a bully. And it's like, I get why you think that, but also, isn't that exact.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

All of you said to Whitney before. So it's kind of funny how, like, it just kind of changes on the Internet's perception. But I will say that, yeah, Whitney, I struggle with at times because she'll do things where I'm like Whitney. But overall, I do think she has good intentions. She's just Whitney. Like, that's all I could say. She's just Whitney. But I do love her, and I do think that I've gotten to see different sides of her where I'm like, okay, like, I think this will work.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. I think I could see her, like, evolving.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jesse Natikara]

You know, I have a question about.

[Jordan]

The genesis of Mom Talk. So when you guys were all, like, forming this, was there kind of like a Founding Fathers meeting where it was like, this is what Mom Talk will stand before.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, oh, my gosh.

[Michaela]

Need one of those.

[Jordan]

Yes. Like the Bill of Values and Rights that Mom Talk is going to be all about, Like, Because.

[Michaela]

No. Are you just saying, like, how I'm on the show. We're all like, we stand for.

[Jordan]

Yes. It's always about, like, what Mom Talk stands for. And I've just. It's like an activist group almost.

[Michaela]

Okay. So the way I see it is that I think that the fact that we're all breadwinners, in a sense, we all provide for our families. We're all working moms. I think that just as a group, we like, showing that you can be successful, you can have it all. You can be a working woman and be a housewife and a mother. And I think just showing that, because in this world, it's like you're either, like, in the church, for example, you're condemned if you're a working mom because you're supposed to be a stay at home mom. And then in the real world, if you have kids, that could be a distraction to your career. So we're trying to show that you can have it all. And I think it's just knowing that season one was so successful. People related to us and they looked up to us. It's kind of just like writing that, like, these women relate to us. All these mom talk groups popped up around the country because they were like, we want to be like that. We want a group of friends like that. After season two, I don't think they want a group of friends, but we were kind of an inspiration to people. And I think we were just kind of like, we need to continue to be that. Yeah, I think that's what we were talking about. But it's hard to say if everyone.

[Jesse Natikara]

Felt that way, especially given the fact that all of you are in Utah. Like, you're in this extremely traditional, like, society and families and like, so the fact that you are all, like, pretty non traditional. Like, like, it is nice when you can band together and be on the same page.

[Michaela]

I love that though. We need a I'm gonna pitch meeting.

[Jesse Natikara]

I think this is like an interesting question with the pregnancy roulette game.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Did everyone, like, agree to do that before you filmed or like, I felt so. I think as a viewer, I was like, oh, my gosh, this could go terribly.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Okay. So we didn't agree to it before we filmed because Layla surprised us with it. But I will say at that time when we filmed that there was a trend going around of pregnancy. Like, it was all over TikTok. So none of us really thought it was a bad thing because we were like, oh. Like we even filmed it on our phones to someday post. But then we just like, never did because it was controversial. But no, it was just a normal trend. And yes, it turned into a disaster. But Demi didn't seem that upset with the idea. She kind of made a joke like, oh, this isn't going to go well for me. But, like, she's so down for anything and she was down to do it. So none of us really thought it was going to end up that way. And it also just so happened that she pulled the positive, the second positive.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right.

[Michaela]

What are the chances? I know, so. And she was already struggling with infertility, so I think it was just like, bad timing. But no, none of us went into it thinking that. And maybe we should have.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I think that's another thing that when you watch yourself back on tv you could be like, okay, maybe you should have learned.

[Jordan]

Yeah. I'm. I'm so curious what the process is, like, of being like, wait, why do I, you know, not you. But I would be like, why do I wear my hair like that?

[Michaela]

Why do my pants look like that?

[Jordan]

Like, is there so much editing that happens afterward?

[Michaela]

Yeah, I've, like, changed my whole face. Like, I got a nose job and I got a CO2 laser. But yes, like, you watch yourself. Even just, like, little outfits or the. Your hair. You're like, oh, like, dang. So I think every season you have, like, a glow.

[Jesse Natikara]

A glow.

[Michaela]

I think you see that in all reality shows, right?

[Jordan]

But no, it's so true.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

I love your darker hair, by the way. It looks so good.

[Michaela]

Thank you.

[Jesse Natikara]

Obsessed. So we got so many comments. Or like, whatever she's doing, like, she looks incredible.

[Jordan]

And I'll just say, I love your nose job.

[Michaela]

I think you look incredible. I like, it was just like an Alar base reduction is what they call it. And they just. Like, I was awake. They just cut the nostrils and just tucked it a little so it wasn't as wide.

[Jesse Natikara]

I, like, kind of like, it's very subtle.

[Michaela]

Like.

[Jesse Natikara]

Like, Like, I. It's like, you wouldn't have, like. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Like, how did you even know you. Because when I saw you, season one, I did not think, she needs an Alar base. I thought, you know, it was beautiful.

[Michaela]

Well, thank you.

[Jordan]

So I'm so curious.

[Michaela]

I was self conscious about.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Michaela]

I felt like it was a little wide.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Michaela]

And now looking back, I can tell the difference. I'm, like, so glad I did it. But it's funny because I didn't actually, like, actively seek it out. My husband went and got the hair transplant. We were meeting with the doctor, and he does these as well. And I just, like, asked him, I was like, do you think I need a nose job? And he was like, like, no. Like, your bridge is good. You just. If anything, you could just tuck a little. And I was like, sign me up. So I just did it.

[Jesse Natikara]

What was the recovery?

[Michaela]

It was really good. I did a CO2 laser at the same time, and I.

[Jesse Natikara]

Okay, I remember seeing your CO2 laser. So did you also. Is that why you also had, like, kind of. Yes. Okay.

[Michaela]

So I did the. I did the nose job and then two days later went under and did the laser. But I had, you know, like, three weeks off from filming, so I was like, I'm gonna do it now and just hide away in the house. Do it all together. And it Wasn't a bad recovery at all. Like, I detailed it all on my TikTok, but. But the nose job, I just had to, like, clean the incisions, and it was pretty easy. And then the laser was uncomfortable and itchy, and if you watch that process, it's nuts. But it was amazing.

[Jesse Natikara]

Really?

[Michaela]

Yeah. It, like, made my skin. It, like, sheds your layer of skin, and you just have, like, baby skin again.

[Jesse Natikara]

It's amazing.

[Michaela]

So, yeah. But, yeah, a lot of people like that follow me now are like, you look different than you did on tv. And I'm like, yeah, it's. Cause I changed everything.

[Jordan]

Well, I mean, kudos to you for being so transparent.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan]

I recently got a small breast augmentation. And yes, it's. They're very subtle.

[Michaela]

And yeah, I'm, like, shoveling.

[Jordan]

I literally could. Anyway. It's just funny, though, because I was, like, thinking I was being transparent talking about it with the audience. But then I don't know if you got that. Gotten this. But then someone was like, now they're flaunting plastic surgeries. Like, I thought you wanted transparency.

[Michaela]

It sucks because if you're. If you're hiding it, you're. Yeah, you're transparent. And if you're transparent, you're pushing it on people.

[Jordan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michaela]

You can't win. But I think for me, my platform, I've always been an open book. I'm super, like, forward with everything. And for me, I follow celebrities over the years who've been like, I don't get Botox. I just use. Use olive oil. Yeah, right. And then it sets an unrealistic standard for women. And I think that's actually more harmful.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So for me, I'm like, I'm gonna share what I get. And I'm not saying you need this. I'm just sharing it if you want it. This was my experience. And if you don't, great.

[Jesse Natikara]

It's information. I mean, like, how much do we love When Kylie just said, like, like, this many cc's, like, over the mouth, Like, I just. I love. So refreshing.

[Michaela]

Loved it.

[Jesse Natikara]

I do want to hear about, like, what happened with your thyroid, because I feel like we saw a little bit of that, but, like, that was kind of a big thing that happened for you.

[Michaela]

It was. And I think just the fact that we only get, you know, 10 episodes, there's only so much time. But I actually found out about my thyroid the week we started filming, and I dealt with it the whole season. Like, I filmed with my family about it, my doctor's appointment like, going to get the surgery. So it kind of sucks that it was like 10 seconds. Seconds long. Yeah. But yeah, it was really cool because I got messages from nurses after watching season one pointing it out and I never would have.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. What were they pointing out?

[Michaela]

So I guess if you, like, have a thyroid that's enlarged, it looks like a butterfly, the shape of your thyroid and you can see like a little bulge. I never would have been able to tell, but I went to the doctor and they did like an ultrasound, they did a biopsy, blood work. And then it came back that I had six nodules on this side and one enlarged one on this side. And so I still have six here, but they're like, they're small enough. You're fine. One here. And it was big enough to where it could have been cancerous and it could have continued to grow and cause issues. And it was causing issues because I still, like, would swallow funny and like, my neck would feel tense and I would, like, just feel it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Those were symptoms you had that you didn't realize could be attributed to your thyroid?

[Michaela]

Yep.

[Jordan]

And you went to the doctor because of the nurse dms?

[Michaela]

Because I got probably seven of them. Wow. At first I was like, there's no way. Yeah, they're just like. I thought it was them just saying like, your neck looks weird. Like, I thought they were just being mean, but no, I got seven and I was like. And then one night we were in bed and Jordan was like, wait, I think I see it. And I was like, wait, what? So I like went to the doctor, but it ended up being benign, which was a blessing. But I had so many symptoms like fatigue and no energy and things like that that went away after.

[Jordan]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Michaela]

I'm so happy I could spread awareness because even though it was such a small port part of the show, I did a tik tok and an Instagram video that detailed it more. And I've gotten so many messages of people like, thank you for sharing this. Like, now I'm less scared to go through it. And it's so rewarding. That's stuff I love sharing my life about because it actually helps. Helps people.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

And like, honestly, how great that like, these nurses were like, concerned for your well being and they're like, hey, just so you know, you know, they weren't trying to be like rude or anything.

[Michaela]

I think it actually happened to. Is it Tariq El Musa? Same thing happened to him and he ended up having thyroid cancer, I think.

[Jordan]

Wow.

[Michaela]

And it was people reaching out from watching him. So that is the cool thing about tv. Like, I'm like, reality TV saved my life.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Natikara]

Right? Wow.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

How was it seeing Demi at the reunion?

[Michaela]

So she wasn't fully there. She was there on video.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Michaela]

So she. Okay. So we got word of the reunion a few weeks before we filmed it, and doing something like that last minute with nine of us is hard, for sure. Like, I understood she had an obligation to be on a family trip. What was hard for me was I also had a huge hair class that day. I teach hair classes all over the country, and I had 60 students that had flown in, paid for hotels and flights to learn from me that day. And I even tried to get out of it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I ended up going to the reunion. So there was a part of me that wished, like, she could have moved things around because she was such a big part of the conversation, but she had a family trip planned, and I'm not gonna, like, shame her for that. Like, she made the right decision for herself. But I will say it was hard because there was so much we had to say about her and to her. And then they showed us footage of her, and we would have to answer to that. But then she couldn't say anything back, which is video. So that was the hard part. But I'm glad that she had a little voice in it. It makes me wonder if now it will open up more conversations because she'll see what we said about her. But we. I think that us girls, we got out what we felt, and maybe in future seasons, hopefully, we'll be able to, like, break it down further and she'll have more to say.

[Jordan]

Do you feel like the. That the reunion was productive and you guys are in a better place afterward, or do you feel like it kind of opened up things more?

[Michaela]

No, I actually do think it was productive. It definitely opened things up, but it was almost like it made it really, really contentious, and then we had to get through it, and then it was like, yeah, you know, so. So I think you see that Mikayla and Whitney hug, which is huge.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Michaela]

But, yeah, like, there were a lot of hard conversations, but also a lot of resolution.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And how was it like being nervous around Nick Lachey?

[Michaela]

Oh, Nick Viall.

[Jordan]

Oh, it was Nick Viall.

[Michaela]

I'm like, I wish it was.

[Jordan]

Oh, I thought it was Nick Lachey.

[Michaela]

He's love is blind. Right. That would have been fun.

[Jordan]

Never mind. You're not nervous about Nick?

[Michaela]

Mile. I had met Nick. You were on the show once or twice before Yes. I had been on the show, and then he hosted our premiere, and we did, like, a panel, but I think that was afterwards. I can't remember. Maybe it was before, but he was a great host. It was actually cool because he had met all of us. And Nick is so ingrained in pop culture that, like, he. He's so in it. Like, he talks about the Housewives all the time. He talks about our show. So he knew a lot.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And he says to us, he's like, I'm not just, like, here for a job. Like, I'm a fan. Like, I love the show.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So hearing that, like, is comforting. So you're like, okay. He's invested in it, and he asked all the right questions, so it was really great.

[Jordan]

But he's a talented host. It'll be interesting to see if he, like, is, like, the next Chris Harrison.

[Michaela]

Right.

[Jesse Natikara]

I have to say, the fact that, like, a straight white guy hosted the reunion. No, no. I love it, though. It's like, because I feel like the thing about, like, my husband does not care about housewives, but I literally came home while this. Your show was airing. Came home, opened the door. It's playing. Literally. Like, I watched a few episodes with him, and then while I was gone, he continued watching.

[Michaela]

What is it about our show?

[Jesse Natikara]

No, it's. Love it. They love it. So anyway, it's like, it's. I think it's amazing that it's, like, it appeals to so many people.

[Michaela]

Maybe that will be good for the reunion. That, like, it's a straight male. Yeah. Like, the husbands can relate to. Who knows?

[Jesse Natikara]

Totally.

[Michaela]

But I just think it's funny that our show's like, the patriarchy, and then he hosted our reunion, but for some reason, it just worked. Like, we had worked with him so much already that, like, it just flowed. But I think I like his wife, Natalie. She wasn't there, but, like, I think we just had that rapport with him. And, yeah, he killed it. He was great.

[Jesse Natikara]

That's. Yeah. Now, knowing what, you know, having filmed Reunion season three, anything you'd say to Jesse, like, going into season one, like, oh, gosh, steer clear of X person or, you know, whatever you would say.

[Michaela]

Don'T jump so heavy into a friendship immediately. Like, that's actually something I've struggled with my whole life. Like, I go, like, I met my husband and married him within three months. Like, I always just jump head first. So I probably would have told myself to, like, like, not do that with Demi. Just, like, get to know everyone. But I will say I feel like I've been myself. Like, I. I'm actually proud of myself because for the most part, I feel like I've been true to who I am. And I think it helps that, like, all of us on the cast, we're real friends. We get along, we have fun together. You forget the cameras are there, so maybe. Maybe just being more vulnerable, and maybe you'll see that coming up. Like, I do think I show that a little more in future seasons, but. But just, you know, not being so scared to show everything and just, like, laying it all out there, the good and the bad, and not feeling like I have to hide certain things or filter my life. And I think that the more that time goes on with anyone on reality tv, that does naturally happen. But I do feel like I've been myself. So that's good.

[Jesse Natikara]

That's wonderful.

[Jordan]

I know there are a lot of people who are obsessed with the hair.

[Jesse Natikara]

They.

[Jordan]

I mean, it looks so beautiful. It's falling to everyone's waist.

[Michaela]

Just so pretty. Yeah. We all have the 24 inches.

[Jordan]

So if you want the Jay Z Styles look, can you get that, like, online?

[Michaela]

Yes, actually. So you can order our hair extensions.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Michaela]

Order our curling irons online. But the coolest thing is, if you want to actually get your extensions or color done, you can always come to Jay Z. But we also have a locator on our website, and there are over 3, 000 certified stylists that I've personally taught myself that you can go to.

[Jesse Natikara]

Shut up.

[Jordan]

That go to your classes, and then.

[Jesse Natikara]

They go back wherever they are, all our way.

[Michaela]

They use. So you can. In any city you live in, like, you could find someone.

[Jesse Natikara]

I love it.

[Michaela]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Jesse Natikara]

Okay. Amazing.

[Jordan]

The hair looks. I mean, I'm such a fan. The hair looks so good.

[Michaela]

Layla's in that one scene.

[Jesse Natikara]

I will.

[Michaela]

I will say that was rough, but I think the wind had just blown and no one fixed it.

[Jesse Natikara]

Yeah. Also. Yeah. No, Everyone.

[Michaela]

Anyone who has extensions knows that that.

[Jesse Natikara]

Can just happen for sure. Literally. I've been there.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Yeah, we've all been there.

[Jesse Natikara]

Thank you so much for being on the show. Tell everyone where they can find you.

[Michaela]

It's just Jesse on TikTok and Instagram and Jay Z Styles is my website, and that's. Yeah, that's my whole life is hair.

[Jordan]

Congrats on all your success, and truly, you're such an open book. So it was so fun chatting with you, because I feel like it's so fun to chat with someone who, like, is My husband just got hair plugs and then it's just like, oh.

[Michaela]

I'm like, it's amazing.

[Jesse Natikara]

I love it.

[Michaela]

But I've loved listening to your guys's recaps of the show.

[Jesse Natikara]

Thank you for watching, of course.

[Michaela]

And even if you say, like, mean things about me, I'm still here for it.

[Jordan]

Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you so much. And we definitely would never. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back on Monday. Bye.

[Jesse Natikara]

Bye.

[E]

This summer, Pluto TV is exploding with thousands of free movies. Summer of cinema is here. Feel the explosive action all summer long with movies like Gladiator, Mission Impossible, Beverly Hills Cop, Good Burger, and Transformers. Dark of the Moon. Bring the action with you and stream for free from all your favorite devices. Pluto TV Stream now. Pay. Never. Most people would rather attend a corporate team building workshop than search for auto and home insurance.

[Ethan Cross]

Go team.

[Michaela]

Feel that synergy.

[E]

That's why the zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can Compare. [e-mail] who's ready for the trust fall.