All’s Fair And What’s Making Us Happy

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour (NPR)

Episode: All’s Fair And What’s Making Us Happy
Date: November 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Ryan Murphy's new Hulu series “All’s Fair,” an outrageous, soap-inspired show starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, and Niecy Nash Betts as high-powered divorce attorneys. Host Aisha Harris is joined by Vulture TV critic Roxana Hadadi and podcaster Christina Tucker to debate whether Murphy's high-camp, meme-forward approach works for audiences, especially in a landscape already saturated with “girl boss” narratives and over-the-top dramas. The conversation covers the show's themes, cultural position, performances, and their own conflicted enjoyment or aversion. The show wraps up with the regular “What’s Making Us Happy” segment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Premise and Cast of "All’s Fair"

• The show is described as “a doozy” of absurdity featuring:
  • Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant
  • Naomi Watts as Liberty Ronson
  • Niecy Nash Betts as Emerald Green
  • Glenn Close as mentor Dina Standish
  • Sarah Paulson as the villainous Carrington Lane
• The firm specializes in winning large divorce settlements for wealthy women, and the private lives of the heroines are just as tumultuous and hyperbolic as the cases they take on.

Quote:

“My goodness. Okay, so All's Fair stars Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant, Naomi Watts as Liberty Ronson, and Niecy Nash Betts as Emerald Green. ...Their sworn enemy is rival attorney Carrington Lane, played by who else? Sarah Paulson, who's basically inhaling the scenery whenever she's on screen.” — Aisha Harris, [01:16]

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2. First Impressions: Is the Show ‘Too Much’?

• Christina Tucker initially resisted but found herself entertained by the maximalist camp.
• Roxana Hadadi likens her cautious commitment to “clutching the door at the end of Titanic.”
• All agree the show epitomizes the nighttime soap, a format they find both outdated and oddly charming.

Quote:

“I am on board, but I’m like on board in the way that Kate Winslet was like, clutching the door at the end of Titanic… I don’t actually know if this is good. I’m holding on for dear life.” — Roxana Hadadi, [03:34]

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3. Soap Opera Energy & Camp Appeal

• The panel notes that “All’s Fair” fully embraces the nighttime soap tradition, with a self-awareness (“knows what it is, but maybe too well”).
• Christina and Roxana find its absurdity "quaint," especially compared to more self-serious shows.
• The show is compared to “Golden Girls,” “Scandal,” and other “girl boss” TV like “The Diplomat” or “Homeland.”

Quote:

“What I think it’s trying to do is like what if the Golden Girls were lawyers? And there’s something about that that is… very familiar and I think just weirdly tolerable.” — Roxana Hadadi, [05:18]

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4. Performance Highlights & Guest Stars

• The hosts cite memorable guest appearances (Elizabeth Berkley, Jennifer Jason Leigh, Jessica Simpson, Rick Springfield).
• Enjoyment is drawn from the show’s short attention span and willingness to invite chaos with each new episode and celebrity cameo.

Quote:

“You get that classic nip/tuck, Dr. Odyssey format of… this recurring hamster wheel of guest stars. I personally enjoy Murphy’s work best when he has sort of a short attention span.” — Roxana Hadadi, [09:46]

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5. Divisive Take: Over-the-Top or Just Empty?

• Aisha Harris finds the show “repelling,” feeling Murphy is leaning too hard into the winking-at-the-audience, memeable excess.
• She criticizes the show's fixation on wealthy women’s trivial complaints as lacking self-awareness or real critique, and cringes at the meta-casting of Kim Kardashian.

Quote:

“There’s something about this show though… it’s just like repelling me away from enjoying this… For me, it felt as though I was just retreating into the dark abyss of nothingness.” — Aisha Harris, [07:31]

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6. Character Depth & Comic Timing

• Christina notes a midseason pivot, in which Sarah Paulson’s Carrington Lane receives more complexity and becomes the series’ most compelling figure.
• Much of the joy comes from the sheer absurdity, with lines from Glenn Close providing particular amusement.

Quote:

“Unfortunately, a large part of my joy is just the giggles that come from hearing Glenn Close say things like, ‘I’ll pack you a lunch with Pepperidge Farm goldfish.’” — Christina Tucker, [08:50]

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7. Politics, Feminism, and Meta-Commentary

• The group discusses the show's surface-level “intersectional feminism” and “rah rah for the 1% sisterhood,” noting the cast’s diversity does not extend to the clients, who are predominantly white.
• They question whether the show offers any substance beyond nostalgia for 2010s “girl boss” culture and whether it’s really that much more progressive than the “ugly roles” women took on in older Hollywood.
• Aisha finds Kim Kardashian's presence both meta and off-putting; the attempt at seriousness in addressing subjects like sexual assault lands as “icky” given the context.

Quote:

“If it didn’t hammer so hard on those points, I think I would be able to enjoy it more. But those points make it ickier for me in a way.” — Aisha Harris, [12:46]

Quote:

“When you stare at the show too long, like, Cthulhu appears and the abyss opens up and we all get pulled inside.” — Roxana Hadadi, [15:22]

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8. Self-Awareness, Audience Detachment, and Future Prospects

• The hosts agree they watch the show with some “level of ironic detachment,” recognizing its lack of technical merit but accepting its entertainment value.
• “All’s Fair” has already been renewed for a second season, possibly buoyed by hate-watching and social media memes.
• Christina and Roxana are “in for at least the end of season one,” while Aisha remains unconvinced.

Quote:

“This, to me is like, we are an audience who is watching it with, like, an ironic level of detachment… but at least in this way, there’s something about it that I am being moderately entertained by while also being completely aware that this show is in no technical way good.” — Roxana Hadadi, [18:50 / 19:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the show’s tone:

  “It is girl bossing fully in the mode of like 2011.” — Roxana Hadadi, [04:08]

• On enjoying nonsense:

  “Did I feel my fists pumping in the air as I heard every nonsensical line that came out of these actresses’ mouths? Yes, also that.” — Christina Tucker, [03:01]

• The show’s meta-surgeries conversation:

  “There’s also the most wonderful new long lasting filler formulated from salmon sperm.” — Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant (quoted by Aisha Harris), [13:01]

• On how the show’s seriousness falls flat:

  “At least saying, this is very specific to this, like, tiny, insular world and we’re not trying to comment on larger things because… when it was like, oh, yeah, this could happen to anybody, I was like, I’m not loving the energy you guys are bringing to this.” — Christina Tucker, [18:19]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Show Introduction & Premise: [00:23] – [02:39]
• First impressions and soap opera nostalgia: [02:39] – [05:18]
• Camp energy and cultural comparisons: [05:18] – [07:49]
• Guest stars and episodic format: [09:13] – [10:53]
• Debate on Kim Kardashian & meta-narrative: [12:05] – [13:43]
• Feminism and diversity discussion: [14:27] – [15:22]
• Attempted Seriousness & Audience Detachment: [18:03] – [20:09]
• Will they keep watching? [20:27] – [20:50]
• Transition to “What’s Making Us Happy” segment: [21:28]

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What’s Making Us Happy This Week

Christina Tucker ([23:23])

• Dorothy Sayers’ Mystery Novels:
  Recommends “Strong Poison,” “Have His Carcass,” and “Gaudy Night” for autumnal, romantic, and fun murder mysteries.

Roxana Hadadi ([24:29])

• Jeopardy!:
  Watching new episodes as a comforting, brain-stimulating break from today’s TV “content overload.”

Aisha Harris ([25:24])

• The Ballad of Wallice Island:
  British dramedy starring Tim Key, Tom Basden, and Carey Mulligan; heartfelt, awkward, charming—good for a family-friendly viewing.

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Conclusion

The hosts and guests offer a spirited debate on “All’s Fair”: Christina and Roxana enjoy its ridiculous, nostalgic, soap-opera vibes (albeit somewhat ironically), while Aisha is left cold, finding its excesses and surface “feminism” off-putting. All agree the show exemplifies Ryan Murphy’s penchant for maximalist camp and meme currency, but question whether it says anything meaningful about women or power. “All’s Fair” may leave you rolling your eyes—or, just as likely, grinning and pumping your first in appreciation for its chaos.

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Transcript

[Announcer]

Support for npr and the following message come from 20th century studios with ella mckay, a new comedy from academy award winning writer director james l. Brooks, starring emma mackey, jamie lee curtis with albert brooks and woody harrelson. See ella mckay. Only in theaters december 12th.

[Aisha Harris]

It's quite possible you're at least familiar with Ryan Murphy's latest project, All's Fair, because in terms of utter silliness, it's a doozy. It's about an all female law firm led by, wait for it. Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts and Niecy Nash Betts. And true to the Murphy brand, the show is barbed and nasty, over the top and all around. So much, maybe too much even for him. It's got us wondering, is it fair that he's unleashed this upon the world? I'm Aisha Harris and today we're talking about All's Fair on Pop Butcher Happy Hour from npr. Joining me today is Vulture TV critic Roxanna Hadadi. Welcome back, Roxanna. Hello.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Thank you for having me. Having me.

[Aisha Harris]

It is great to have you here, Roxanna. Also here is Christina Tucker. She's the co host of the podcast, Wait, is this a date? Welcome back to you too, Christina.

[Christina Tucker]

Hello. Hello. Get ready to pin your wigs back, team.

[Aisha Harris]

The wigs are pinned, the makeup is done. The nether regions have been pricked and plotted and plumped and all those things look, this show, my goodness. Okay, so All's Fair stars Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant, Naomi Watts as Liberty Ronson, and Niecy Nash Betts as Emerald Green. That's redundant. Together they form a high powered law firm specializing in obtaining hefty divorce settlements for wealthy women. Their mentor and colleague is Dina Standish, played by Glenn Close. Their sworn enemy is rival attorney Carrington Lane, played by who else? Sarah Paulson, who's basically inhaling the scenery whenever she's on screen.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Boy, do I love coming here. Walking down that hallway shaped like a clown cervix. I hate you both so much that I'm specifically taking on clients now just to come here and make your life a living hell.

[Aisha Harris]

That is just a taste. Just a taste. When the ladies aren't fighting for their clients, they're dealing with their own personal problems. Like a cheating ex who also happens to be an NFL player, or negotiating a prenup with a fiance. Or difficulties dating at all. Because no one wants to be with a woman who's so rich and successful on her own. Uh, the show is so relatable. All's Fair is Streaming on Hulu now. Christina, I'm gonna start with you. Are you on board for All's Fair?

[Christina Tucker]

I am on board. And I need to say this because I feel like I resisted being on board. I said, maybe this is enough. Maybe putting this one on screen is maybe just too far. Maybe we've let Ryan Murphy go too far. And yet, and yet I sat there and sure, did I feel my brain shutting off as I watched?

[Aisha Harris]

Absolute.

[Christina Tucker]

Absolutely. But did I feel my fists pumping in the air as I heard every nonsensical line that came out of these actresses mouths? Yes, also that. And at the end of the day, I'm always going to be here for Ryan Murphy letting older women do insane things on screen because no one else is letting them do anything. So let's go throw a tea kettle, Glenn. I want to see that.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay. Tyler Perry would like a word, but I hear you, Christina. Roxanna.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

Come on. What are we doing here?

[Roxanna Hadadi]

I mean, I am on board, but I'm like on board in the way that Kate Winslet was like, clutching the door at the end of Titanic where you're like, I don't actually know if this is good. I'm holding on for dear life. I'm seeing all my hopes and dreams sink to the bottom of the ocean. I do think that it is fun and I think it's fun because it's a nighttime soap.

[Christina Tucker]

Right.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Like, we all sort of miss the nighttime soap. Yellowstone is essentially a nighttime soap. Like all soaps are basically this format.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

But I do appreciate that this show isn't trying to do anything other than what it's doing. Right. Like, it fully knows that these characters are ludicrous and these problems apply to like the point 1, 1, 1. It is girl bossing fully in the mode of like 2011. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I mean, it is like lowest difficulty setting. Absolutely. But I think I personally am very tired of shows that use the girl boss format for some sort of like, political statement. Like, I never want to watch the Diplomat again. Homeland is like, blah. But I don't know, there's something about this that like, oh, they're fighting about jewelry. How quaint, how pleasant.

[Christina Tucker]

It bizarrely does have a quaint energy. Like, I don't know how, because some of the words you're hearing are far from quaint, let me assure you. But still watching it, it does have an energy that's like, yeah, this is a soap opera that I feel kind of charmed by. Like, there is something quaint about it.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Fully. What I think it's trying to do is like what if the Golden Girls were lawyers? And there's something about that that is, I don't know, very familiar and I think just weirdly tolerable for me personally.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the Golden Girls cause that definitely came up for me as I was watching this. And I just completed a very slow first time watch of the entire series of the Golden Girls. So it was fresh in my mind. Top of mind, yes, very, very top of mind, I gotta say. Y', all, look, I have a extremely high tolerance for trash tv. I have watched a lot of really bad reality tv. If you've listened long enough, you know that like I've watched pretty much every episode of Teen Mom. Like I have no druthers about watching and digging into the muck. There's something about this show though, for all the reasons you actually mentioned, it's just like repelling me away from enjoying this.

[Christina Tucker]

I kind of love that.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, it's a show that knows what it is, but I think it knows what it is too well. Like it's winking too hard at me. I feel like Ryan Murphy has now reached a tipping point. And I am not by any means like a Ryan Murphy completed who could be and still live a fulfilling life. Like no one has time to watch everything he's put his stamp on. But you know, I go back as far as one of his first shows, Popular, which I remember watching when I was probably too young to be watching it, but I definitely watched it, loved it. I've watched the feuds, I've watched, you know, American Crime Stories. I've never been into American Horror Story. That's not my thing. And I've watched Hollywood, the sort of memory hold, really not great show that like sort of fanfics this idea of like mid century Hollywood classic Hollywood being more progressive like than it ever was and ever even is now. So I enjoy Ryan Murphy and Vincent Peaces. I do think on this show it seems very meme forward. It feels like a show that is intended to be so over the top that it's not anymore. Like for me anyway. And so to see Sarah Paulson getting off all of these barbs and jabs and frequently referring to you know, body parts and being like the staunch anti feminist who's like I don't care about women, like it's every person for themselves. There's something just about it that I can't latch onto and enjoy and I want mindless things. But this one felt beyond Mindless. For me, it felt as though I was just retreating into the dark abyss of nothingness. And I wish I had the joy that you both.

[Christina Tucker]

No. I'm so fascinated to hear this.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Aisha really said, hello, darkness, my old friend, truly, about this show.

[Aisha Harris]

I did.

[Christina Tucker]

I mean, I understand where that feeling comes from. It's not that I can't see approaching the show with that kind of energy. And I, quite honestly, I think for probably the first half of the first episode, I was like, is this gonna be fun enough to deserve my attention and time? And I think it almost manages to succeed almost exclusively on the strength of the sudden switch we make. I think it's in episode four or five. Onto Carrington Lane. Sarah Paulson's character.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. Yeah.

[Christina Tucker]

Giving her some more dimension. I was like, well, first of all, this show should just simply be about this woman. I don't really understand what we're doing here.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Christina Tucker]

There was something about, like, that slight bit of dimension that I was like, okay, I'm ready to hang my hat on that. And, yeah. I mean, there are some moments where I was like, is it possible that this is everyone who's involved in the show creating a Shutter island scenario for Kim Kardashian specifically? I don't know.

[Aisha Harris]

It's possible.

[Christina Tucker]

It's just something I'm wondering. But it is really has been just making me giggle. And unfortunately, a large part of my joy is just the giggles that come from hearing Glenn Close say things like, I'll pack you a lunch with Pepperidge Farm goldfish.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

What? Yeah, here's what I'll say. Fun is a subjective word.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. As we know. Yes.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

And so I would hesitate to say that episodes in their entirety are fun. I think the thing we sort of have to talk about is that, like, each episode has sort of this, like, a plot with what's happening in this law firm. And so there's always sort of like a divorce case. And this is where you get your guest stars.

[Aisha Harris]

Right.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Like Elizabeth Berkley for, like, five minutes. Jennifer Jason Leigh.

[Christina Tucker]

Jessica Simpson.

[Aisha Harris]

Jessica Simpson. Jessica Simpson and Rick Springfield.

[Christina Tucker]

Exactly.

[Aisha Harris]

They ate down.

[Christina Tucker]

I'll say it.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

You get that classic nip tuck, Dr. Odyssey format of. Here's this recurring hamster wheel of guest stars. I personally enjoy Murphy's work best when he has sort of a short attention span. And I think this is why I don't react as well to Monster and to the other miniseries, which are really like the classic miniseries problem of a movie that stretched to, like, 10 or 13 episodes. I think he does better episodically. And so I think, like, you know, that 15 minutes of Jessica Simpson, like, screaming at her ex, that's fine with me.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

And I do think that, like, as the show has sort of changed, there are elements of it being like a murder mystery all of a sudden. It's like a portrait of Carrington Lane. Like, it's doing different enough things that each episode, to me, I'm like, I honestly have no idea where this is gonna go.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, yes.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

But I know that we're gonna hear the C word so many times.

[Aisha Harris]

So many times. So many times.

[Christina Tucker]

We might as well be in England.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Over here hanging with the lad.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. That sort of a plot. B plot thing also kind of reminds me of, like, the earlier seasons of Scandal, where it was like, you know, the white hats. We're going to try and clean up these messes for all these, you know, very important people, politicians, whatever. But even Nacho had a little bit of a. Yes. It was also ridiculous. And I think Shonda Rhimes and Ryan Murphy kind of sometimes play in similar sandboxes. I've already mentioned Tyler Perry. I also put, you know, Lee Daniels in there as well.

[Christina Tucker]

Me too.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

100%. Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

For me, I guess it's like, I think I would be more okay with all of this, like, ludicrousness if it wasn't so rah rah for the 1%, like, sisterhood. And so many scenes are like, we're gonna do this. We're dealing with this. And then it's like, but, you know, it's so hard being rich and successful woman. Like, it's impossible to do this, and we have to live up to all these expectations. And I'm like, well, okay, you cast freaking Kim Kardashian. No, I'm just gonna say it. I don't like her. I don't think she's a good actress. I think she. No, she is not. That is not a revelation here.

[Christina Tucker]

No, it is not.

[Aisha Harris]

Anyone who's seen Tyler Perry's Temptation Confessions of a Marriage Counselor knows that she is not. Or even American Horror Story. Like, she is not an actress. But this is clearly a show that's sort of pulling, if not directly from her own life as someone who has been married and divorced several times and who is very rich and wealthy. There's just something that doesn't sit right with my soul. Watching her sort of play this role of a woman who. And I believe she believes that she is someone who is, like, for women. And I'm just like, okay, but really this is, again, as you said, Roxanna, very 1% rah rah. And if it didn't hammer so hard on those points, I think I would be able to enjoy it more. But those points make it ickier for me in a way.

[Christina Tucker]

I do think some of that meta commentary, especially around, like, the scene specifically where they're all talking about the surgeries and procedures that Alora goes through.

[Aisha Harris]

So the other day I did this new miracle laser that makes the tiniest microscopic holes in the skin that stimulate collagen. There's also the most wonderful new long lasting filler formulated from salmon sperm.

[Christina Tucker]

And that was really the moment to me, that kind of stood out as I like, are we having our cake and eating it too? Because the message of that was like, definitely don't get plastic surgery unless you want to. And then that's fine. It was just kind of like, okay, but then why is this conversation here? And a lot of the conversations kind of felt like that. Like they were kind of introducing a very special episode energy to, like, today we're talking about this at the table with the girls.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, yes.

[Christina Tucker]

And something I wrote in my notes was that I underestimated, like, the sleepover energy that it would have.

[Aisha Harris]

Like, I didn't really expect sleepover in the law office.

[Christina Tucker]

Yeah, I just like, didn't really expect like, the amount of like girlies giggling around somehow a roaring fireplace every fourth seconds even though you're in la. I was a little delighted by that. But also kind of like, interesting that this is like, very special. And then also, you know, adding in the. The B plots are always like, hello, here's a perfect plot to comment on what someone is going through in the cast. We will explain exactly how this woman deserves money because she was involved in this marriage and this work and etc. Etc. The same score will play, it will swell at the moment and everyone will nod and just kind of again, I come back to quaint. I'm like, that feels quaint to me.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

And I do think this sort of, like, broader question is hanging over everything, which is like, how long can they keep getting away with this? Like, they have been renewed.

[Aisha Harris]

It's been renewed. Yes. For season two.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Yeah, it's already been renewed. So clearly, like, we're dealing with an Emily in Paris. Are the hate watches fueling the renewal situation? Yes.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

But I do think, like, when I actually try to think about the politics of the show, there is clearly, like, the show thinks it's doing an intersectional feminism thing. Right. Because, like, the cast involves people of, like, various races, like, various backgrounds, et cetera.

[Aisha Harris]

Hari Neff is in it.

[Christina Tucker]

Hari Neff is slaying in it.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think all of the clients have been white, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. So far at the time of this taping. Yes. That is another thing I've been like, okay, so we've just got all these rich white women that were catering to us. Yeah.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

I mean, again, this is like a classic Ryan Murphy thing. When you stare at the show too long, like, Cthulhu appears and the abyss opens up and we all get pulled inside.

[Christina Tucker]

Guys, this is why I'm saying it's Shutter Island.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Yeah. Like, it resists any type of logical point of view. Aside again, from that, like, 2012. Yes. Go, girl. Do everything you want. Nothing is bad as long as you choose to do it. Wave of feminism. And so maybe. Maybe I'm watching it out of, like, nostalgia for what we lived through.

[Christina Tucker]

And I do think there is something in our kind of current online, like, lol. I'm just a girl trad wife, content. I am kind of, like, fine, bring me back a girl boss. Like, bring me back a girly who's working well.

[Aisha Harris]

There's also gonna be a new Devil Wears Prada soon, so we are firmly recycling and going back into that era.

[Christina Tucker]

Listen, I mean, the all's Fair Season 2 screening at the Wing, it'll all be back.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, God, the Wing. Yeah. Yeah. I just look at this, and I think, like, where is the middle ground here? I feel like there is, you know, we have this moment where women actresses like Glenn Close and Sarah Paulson and Naomi Watts, they are waiting in the muck. I would say of Ryan Murphy very glamorously. But, like, is this that different from when women like Bette Davis and Joan Crawford had to, like, sort of uglify themselves in movies that I think hold up better than, you know, you would expect? I think Whatever Happened to Baby Jane is a classic. And, of course, Ryan Murphy did a whole season about the behind the scenes of that film, which I think is actually very good. I loved the way they kind of attacked that. And that's what I think, like, I find so fascinating about Ryan Murphy is. Even with all the ways I think he's kind of made things sometimes, if not worse for women of a certain age. It's lowered the bar for what we want from them. It's like, yes, I'm sure they're having fun. These women clearly enjoy working with him. Good for Them, but also, like, to what end? And while they get to look nicer and they get to have better jobs and not be necessarily cast as, you know, old hags, as, like, you know, Bette Davis and Joan Crawford had to do and women in previous eras had to do at the same time. I don't know if it's that much more progressive, even just the way they handle sexual assault on this show with Niecy Nash Betts character. It's the one time the show seems to be trying to do things seriously in a way that could apply to women who aren't just rich and white. It felt icky to me. Yeah.

[Christina Tucker]

I was like, oh, okay, so they're gonna try to do this. Like, this could happen to anyone. This is perils of being a woman in the world. And then at the end, for them to be like, no, this is payback for another larger crime later on.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Oh, okay. So Ponzi scheme thing also, like, how.

[Aisha Harris]

Would that actually be?

[Christina Tucker]

I have no ide idea. I have no idea. It's kind of why I'm desperate to watch the next episode, frankly. You know, I kind of like it better if you're pulling this back and at least saying, this is very specific to this, like, tiny, insular world and we're not trying to comment on larger pings because. Yeah, when it was like, oh, yeah, this could happen to anybody, I was like, I'm not loving the energy you guys are bringing to this. I don't like this at all.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, the explanation for that just felt so. Like, how do you pull that out of your butt? Like, how does anyone. I'm sorry, it's. Yeah.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Again, like, this, to me is like, we are an audience who is watching it with, like, an ironic level of detachment. Or speaking for myself, I don't wanna speak for you. I am watching it with an ironic level of detachment.

[Christina Tucker]

No, I'm dialed in.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

And so accepting all of these things as fully ludicrous. But I'm thinking about how on Dr. Odyssey wasn't, like, Joshua Jackson's character, like, patient zero for Covid. Like, we just live in these absurd, fantastical Ryan Murphy worlds. And so I almost feel like he isn't someone who I want talking about the realities of life. That part, I think that's part of what bothers me with the monster franchise is because it is trying to do this, like, very true. Crime affects us all. It is like a cultural scourge. I'm doing it, but it's a cultural scourge. Whereas, really, with this, it's like maybe I'm just so accustomed to the world not depicting realistic women that at least in this way, there's something about it that I am being moderately entertained by while also being completely aware that this show is in no technical way good.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, yeah, sure, I get that. I absolutely get that. And I think again, if it was just that show, if it was just kind of silly, I think I would be able to digest this better. But it sounds like you all plan to continue watching this into season two. Am I correct?

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Into season two is bold. At least until the end of season one.

[Christina Tucker]

Yeah, I will probably finish this season, but as to what happens after that, I am not so sure.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, I mean, we'll see. I'm curious to see how quickly they're able to get season two off the ground because Kim Kardashian's probably gonna be trying to take the bar again. I don't know if she's gonna have time. Like, who knows?

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Like, if we could all have such hilarious, like, failures on our resumes that are like, you know what, though? Like, she keeps doing it good for her. That's the show. She fails, but she keeps doing it good for her. That's all's fair. Like in a statement.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, yeah, it is. That should be the season two tagline. Well, it sounds like we all had varying responses to this show. You've probably watched the show. If you're listening to this episode. Tell us what you think about all's fair. Find us on [e-mail] PCHH up next, we're going to talk about what's making us happy this week.

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[Aisha Harris]

I think interior design is about responsibility.

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It's not just the way a space.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Looks or the way a space photographs.

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To me, better design means functional, safe.

[Aisha Harris]

Accessible and inclusive design.

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Learn [e-mail] NPR now it's time for.

[Aisha Harris]

Our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy? Christina, gonna start with you.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Woo hoo.

[Christina Tucker]

As ever this time of year, it's fall. I crave a mystery novel. And this time I said, I'm going back in time. I've read a lot of current mysteries. I said, what about ones I'm missing? What about my girl Dorothy Sayers? Let me tell you friends, sign up for a Dorothy Sayers read. You will have the time of your life. I'm here to specifically wreck the trio of Strong Poison, Half His Carcass and Gaudy Night. They are so romantic in a way that we don't really write books anymore and kind of made me feel like I was really swept up in romance in a way that I haven't felt in a while. With also like fun, silly murder mysteries happening all around and a foppish lord like, this is all I need, you know. So Dorothy Sayers, Strong Poison, have His Carcass and Gaudy Night, specifically a gorgeous trio of fun. Perfect for fall mystery novels.

[Aisha Harris]

Thank you so much, Christina. I love a good mystery novel and somehow I have not read Dorothy Sayers. So thank you for that recommendation. Yes, yes. Roxanna, what is making you happy this week?

[Roxanna Hadadi]

I mean, we all know this because we all cover tv, but I feel like at this point I am watching like two seasons of television a week and it's like too much for my brain. It's like very overwhelming. But it's our job. So I have been trying to like improve my memory, I would say, because I feel like it is so inundated with like just all of these television shows. So I have really gone back to the early days of my childhood, my formative years. And I'm watching Jeopardy. Again. It is making me so old. New episodes. Like we watch Jeopardy. Every night as a family.

[Aisha Harris]

So did I when I was a kid.

[Roxanna Hadadi]

Yeah, we watched it every night. I am humbled every night by how much. I don't know, but it really feels like if I'm watching All's Fair, I, like, also need to watch Jeopardy. Yeah, I need to balance it somehow. So that's what's making me happy, like getting back into the Jeopardy Grind.

[Aisha Harris]

I love that. Yeah. And now it's available on Peacock, so that's great to know. Man, I miss Jeopardy. That really was appointment viewing for, like, I don't know, 10, 15 years of my life, and somehow it just kind of fell off. But thank you, Roxanna. Well, what's making me happy this week is the Ballad of Wallis Island. This is a charming British dramedy that came out earlier this year. I was actually kind of shocked how much I enjoyed this. It's like, not necessarily in my wheelhouse, but it stars Tim Key as a quirky widower who he basically hires this defunct indie rock folk duo to reunite for a concert on a remote island where he lives. They're played by Tom Basdin and Carey Mulligan. It doesn't go over quite as well as Tim Key's character expects. The duo broke up both professionally and romantically on not great terms. And so they haven't spoken in years. But, like, obviously there's definitely some tension and some awkward moments and just kind of cringe things that happen. But it's also fun. It's heartwarming. I feel like it's a nice pick for a family friend movie night during the holidays. It's very delightful. The performances are great and Key and Bazin actually co wrote the script for this. So it's fun, it's charming. Really enjoyed it. That is the Ballad of Wallace island, and you can find it streaming on prime and on Vodka. And that's what's making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended plus some more recommendations, sign up for our [e-mail] pop culturenewsletter that brings us to the end of our show. Roxanna Haddadi, Christina Tucker, thanks so much for being here, even if I completely disagree with you on all spare. This was so much more fun than watching the show, in fact. Thank you.

[Christina Tucker]

What an honor.

[Aisha Harris]

Thank you. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Kaylin Latimore, and Mike Katsiff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Kamen provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all next week.

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