Pop Culture Happy Hour (NPR)

Episode: All’s Fair And What’s Making Us Happy
Date: November 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Ryan Murphy's new Hulu series “All’s Fair,” an outrageous, soap-inspired show starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, and Niecy Nash Betts as high-powered divorce attorneys. Host Aisha Harris is joined by Vulture TV critic Roxana Hadadi and podcaster Christina Tucker to debate whether Murphy's high-camp, meme-forward approach works for audiences, especially in a landscape already saturated with “girl boss” narratives and over-the-top dramas. The conversation covers the show's themes, cultural position, performances, and their own conflicted enjoyment or aversion. The show wraps up with the regular “What’s Making Us Happy” segment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Premise and Cast of "All’s Fair"

• The show is described as “a doozy” of absurdity featuring:
  • Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant
  • Naomi Watts as Liberty Ronson
  • Niecy Nash Betts as Emerald Green
  • Glenn Close as mentor Dina Standish
  • Sarah Paulson as the villainous Carrington Lane
• The firm specializes in winning large divorce settlements for wealthy women, and the private lives of the heroines are just as tumultuous and hyperbolic as the cases they take on.

Quote:

“My goodness. Okay, so All's Fair stars Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant, Naomi Watts as Liberty Ronson, and Niecy Nash Betts as Emerald Green. ...Their sworn enemy is rival attorney Carrington Lane, played by who else? Sarah Paulson, who's basically inhaling the scenery whenever she's on screen.” — Aisha Harris, [01:16]

2. First Impressions: Is the Show ‘Too Much’?

• Christina Tucker initially resisted but found herself entertained by the maximalist camp.
• Roxana Hadadi likens her cautious commitment to “clutching the door at the end of Titanic.”
• All agree the show epitomizes the nighttime soap, a format they find both outdated and oddly charming.

Quote:

“I am on board, but I’m like on board in the way that Kate Winslet was like, clutching the door at the end of Titanic… I don’t actually know if this is good. I’m holding on for dear life.” — Roxana Hadadi, [03:34]

3. Soap Opera Energy & Camp Appeal

• The panel notes that “All’s Fair” fully embraces the nighttime soap tradition, with a self-awareness (“knows what it is, but maybe too well”).
• Christina and Roxana find its absurdity "quaint," especially compared to more self-serious shows.
• The show is compared to “Golden Girls,” “Scandal,” and other “girl boss” TV like “The Diplomat” or “Homeland.”

Quote:

“What I think it’s trying to do is like what if the Golden Girls were lawyers? And there’s something about that that is… very familiar and I think just weirdly tolerable.” — Roxana Hadadi, [05:18]

4. Performance Highlights & Guest Stars

• The hosts cite memorable guest appearances (Elizabeth Berkley, Jennifer Jason Leigh, Jessica Simpson, Rick Springfield).
• Enjoyment is drawn from the show’s short attention span and willingness to invite chaos with each new episode and celebrity cameo.

Quote:

“You get that classic nip/tuck, Dr. Odyssey format of… this recurring hamster wheel of guest stars. I personally enjoy Murphy’s work best when he has sort of a short attention span.” — Roxana Hadadi, [09:46]

5. Divisive Take: Over-the-Top or Just Empty?

• Aisha Harris finds the show “repelling,” feeling Murphy is leaning too hard into the winking-at-the-audience, memeable excess.
• She criticizes the show's fixation on wealthy women’s trivial complaints as lacking self-awareness or real critique, and cringes at the meta-casting of Kim Kardashian.

Quote:

“There’s something about this show though… it’s just like repelling me away from enjoying this… For me, it felt as though I was just retreating into the dark abyss of nothingness.” — Aisha Harris, [07:31]

6. Character Depth & Comic Timing

• Christina notes a midseason pivot, in which Sarah Paulson’s Carrington Lane receives more complexity and becomes the series’ most compelling figure.
• Much of the joy comes from the sheer absurdity, with lines from Glenn Close providing particular amusement.

Quote:

“Unfortunately, a large part of my joy is just the giggles that come from hearing Glenn Close say things like, ‘I’ll pack you a lunch with Pepperidge Farm goldfish.’” — Christina Tucker, [08:50]

7. Politics, Feminism, and Meta-Commentary

• The group discusses the show's surface-level “intersectional feminism” and “rah rah for the 1% sisterhood,” noting the cast’s diversity does not extend to the clients, who are predominantly white.
• They question whether the show offers any substance beyond nostalgia for 2010s “girl boss” culture and whether it’s really that much more progressive than the “ugly roles” women took on in older Hollywood.
• Aisha finds Kim Kardashian's presence both meta and off-putting; the attempt at seriousness in addressing subjects like sexual assault lands as “icky” given the context.

Quote:

“If it didn’t hammer so hard on those points, I think I would be able to enjoy it more. But those points make it ickier for me in a way.” — Aisha Harris, [12:46]

Quote:

“When you stare at the show too long, like, Cthulhu appears and the abyss opens up and we all get pulled inside.” — Roxana Hadadi, [15:22]

8. Self-Awareness, Audience Detachment, and Future Prospects

• The hosts agree they watch the show with some “level of ironic detachment,” recognizing its lack of technical merit but accepting its entertainment value.
• “All’s Fair” has already been renewed for a second season, possibly buoyed by hate-watching and social media memes.
• Christina and Roxana are “in for at least the end of season one,” while Aisha remains unconvinced.

Quote:

“This, to me is like, we are an audience who is watching it with, like, an ironic level of detachment… but at least in this way, there’s something about it that I am being moderately entertained by while also being completely aware that this show is in no technical way good.” — Roxana Hadadi, [18:50 / 19:02]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the show’s tone:

  “It is girl bossing fully in the mode of like 2011.” — Roxana Hadadi, [04:08]

• On enjoying nonsense:

  “Did I feel my fists pumping in the air as I heard every nonsensical line that came out of these actresses’ mouths? Yes, also that.” — Christina Tucker, [03:01]

• The show’s meta-surgeries conversation:

  “There’s also the most wonderful new long lasting filler formulated from salmon sperm.” — Kim Kardashian as Allura Grant (quoted by Aisha Harris), [13:01]

• On how the show’s seriousness falls flat:

  “At least saying, this is very specific to this, like, tiny, insular world and we’re not trying to comment on larger things because… when it was like, oh, yeah, this could happen to anybody, I was like, I’m not loving the energy you guys are bringing to this.” — Christina Tucker, [18:19]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Show Introduction & Premise: [00:23] – [02:39]
• First impressions and soap opera nostalgia: [02:39] – [05:18]
• Camp energy and cultural comparisons: [05:18] – [07:49]
• Guest stars and episodic format: [09:13] – [10:53]
• Debate on Kim Kardashian & meta-narrative: [12:05] – [13:43]
• Feminism and diversity discussion: [14:27] – [15:22]
• Attempted Seriousness & Audience Detachment: [18:03] – [20:09]
• Will they keep watching? [20:27] – [20:50]
• Transition to “What’s Making Us Happy” segment: [21:28]

What’s Making Us Happy This Week

Christina Tucker ([23:23])

• Dorothy Sayers’ Mystery Novels:
  Recommends “Strong Poison,” “Have His Carcass,” and “Gaudy Night” for autumnal, romantic, and fun murder mysteries.

Roxana Hadadi ([24:29])

• Jeopardy!:
  Watching new episodes as a comforting, brain-stimulating break from today’s TV “content overload.”

Aisha Harris ([25:24])

• The Ballad of Wallice Island:
  British dramedy starring Tim Key, Tom Basden, and Carey Mulligan; heartfelt, awkward, charming—good for a family-friendly viewing.

Conclusion

The hosts and guests offer a spirited debate on “All’s Fair”: Christina and Roxana enjoy its ridiculous, nostalgic, soap-opera vibes (albeit somewhat ironically), while Aisha is left cold, finding its excesses and surface “feminism” off-putting. All agree the show exemplifies Ryan Murphy’s penchant for maximalist camp and meme currency, but question whether it says anything meaningful about women or power. “All’s Fair” may leave you rolling your eyes—or, just as likely, grinning and pumping your first in appreciation for its chaos.

For more recommendations and recaps, you can sign up for the Pop Culture Happy Hour newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter.