American Primeval

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: "American Primeval" Episode Summary

Introduction

In the January 15, 2025 episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Glen Weldon, Sam Yellow Horse Kessler, and Vulture TV critic Roxanna Haddadi delve into Netflix's intense Western series American Primeval. This six-episode limited series, written by Mark L. Smith (co-writer of The Revenant), explores the tumultuous journey of Sarah (Betty Gilpin) and her son as they navigate the perilous Utah Territory in 1857.

Plot Overview

American Primeval centers on Sarah's determination to reunite with her husband, who has established a settlement on the other side of the Utah Territory. Their expedition becomes fraught with danger as they encounter violent factions, including a ruthless Mormon militia led by Governor Brigham Young (Kim Coates). Alongside them is a gruff guide portrayed by Taylor Kitsch, whose troubled past adds complexity to the narrative.

Glenn Weldon provides a succinct overview:

"Utah Governor Brigham Young... is pulling the strings of a violent Mormon militia determined to keep the federal government out of the territory" [(03:00)].

The journey is layered with threats from bounty hunters, fur trappers, renegade Shoshone members, and the harsh elements of the frontier, challenging Sarah and her son in increasingly brutal ways.

Characters and Performances

The series boasts a strong ensemble cast, with standout performances from Betty Gilpin, Taylor Kitsch, Shea Whigham, and Dane DeHaan. Roxanna Haddadi praises the casting:

"Shea Whigham, great. Kim Coates, great." [(05:40)].

However, the hosts express mixed feelings about certain character arcs. While Whigham's sympathetic settler and Coates's portrayal of Brigham Young receive acclaim, Taylor Kitsch's character is critiqued for his lack of development:

"Taylor Kitsch character was just... he starts and ends on the same place... gruff but, you know." [(09:56)].

Sam Yellow Horse Kessler notes appreciation for seeing familiar actors:

"I was just like, glad to see Dane DeHaan in this... same with Shea Whigham and same with Betty Gilpin." [(05:46)].

Themes and Representation

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the series' portrayal of violence and its impact on society's formation. Roxanna Haddadi highlights the explicit depiction of religion's role in American expansion:

"The very explicit way it establishes that religion played a central role in the notion of manifest destiny, American exceptionalism." [(13:41)].

The show also attempts to incorporate Indigenous characters, though not without criticism. Haddadi points out the underdevelopment of the character Two Moons:

"They make it so she can't speak. They literally do not give her a voice." [(15:58)].

Sam YHK adds concern over the portrayal of Native Americans:

"There is this kind of messy sensation throughout the thing of, like, well, the indigenous people are being portrayed as violent savages..." [(18:06)].

Despite these shortcomings, the hosts acknowledge moments where the show challenges traditional narratives, such as Governor Young's contradictory actions and the complex alliances between factions.

Critical Reception

Both hosts share their personal critiques, balancing appreciation for the show's intensity with reservations about certain narrative choices. Roxanna expresses her admiration for the Mormon storyline, linking it to historical accounts like Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven:

"I appreciated the... we're really gonna tell you how bad things were because of this religious faction." [(05:40)].

Conversely, Sam YHK finds the show doesn't fully resonate with him, though he appreciates the relentless energy:

"I think the redeeming quality behind it was that this was going to contribute to the reels of a lot of actors that I really like." [(05:46)].

Overall Impressions and Conclusions

American Primeval is lauded for its unflinching portrayal of frontier violence and the complex interplay of power, religion, and survival. However, the series is also critiqued for its underdeveloped Indigenous representation and one-dimensional character arcs, particularly Taylor Kitsch's guide.

Glenn Weldon emphasizes the show's structural strengths:

"In 2025, it feels good to have a six-episode limited series that tells a story with a beginning, middle, and an end." [(19:13)].

Despite its flaws, the hosts acknowledge American Primeval as a compelling addition to the Western genre, sparking meaningful conversations about America's historical narrative and the foundations of its societal constructs.

Notable Quotes

• Glenn Weldon [(03:00)]: "Utah Governor Brigham Young... is pulling the strings of a violent Mormon militia determined to keep the federal government out of the territory."

• Roxanna Haddadi [(05:40)]: "Shea Whigham, great. Kim Coates, great."

• Sam Yellow Horse Kessler [(05:46)]: "I was just like, glad to see Dane DeHaan in this... same with Shea Whigham and same with Betty Gilpin."

• Roxanna Haddadi [(13:41)]: "The very explicit way it establishes that religion played a central role in the notion of manifest destiny, American exceptionalism."

Conclusion

The Pop Culture Happy Hour hosts provide a nuanced exploration of American Primeval, balancing praise for its ambitious storytelling and strong performances with critiques of its representation and character development. The episode serves as a thoughtful guide for listeners considering whether to embark on this violent and morally complex Western journey.

Transcript

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[Glenn Weldon]

In Netflix's gritty, brutal Western series American Primeval, Betty Gilpin plays a woman determined to get herself and her son across the frontier, but along the way they find themselves caught up in a brewing war between the federal government and a violent Mormon militia. A gruff guide played by Taylor Kitsch might be of some help, but the land is rife with violent factions with competing claims to the blood soaked soil. I'm Glenn Weldon and today we're talking about American Primeval on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr.

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[Glenn Weldon]

Joining me today is Sam Yellow Horse Kessler, a producer for NPR's Planet Money. Hey Sam.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Hi Glenn. Thanks for having me. I'm sure this simple interaction between us will end peacefully and with no sudden and brutal violence.

[Glenn Weldon]

I wouldn't put money on that. Also with us is Vulture TV critic Roxanna Haddadi. Hey, Roxanna.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Hello.

[Glenn Weldon]

Let's get to it. In American Primeval, Betty Gilpin plays Sarah, a woman who hopes to reunite herself and her son with her husband, who set himself up in a town on the other side of the Utah Territory in 1857. But the frontier is a lawless and violent. She's got some allies in the form of a sympathetic settler who's established a waystation for those headed west. He's played by the great Shea Wiggum. Taylor Kitsch plays a gruff loner with a dark past who reluctantly, annoyingly, reluctantly agrees to guide Sarah and her son on their journey.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

I am aware that our delayed arrival has helped create this situation. Now all that matters is whether you are willing to take on the position of our guide or not.

[NPR Sponsor]

I ain't got business in crooks.

[Glenn Weldon]

No, he doesn't. It won't be easy. Utah Governor Brigham Young, played by Kim Coates, is pulling the strings of a violent Mormon militia determined to keep the federal government out of the territory. Sarah and co are caught in the crossfire alongside a group of unfortunate Mormon settlers. Throw in bounty hunters, fur trappers, renegade members of the Shoshone Nation, wolves, bears, frostbite and gangrene, and Sarah and her son will be tested in an unrelentingly brutal fashion before the six episode series wraps up. American Primeval was written by Mark L. Smith, who co wrote the Leonardo DiCaprio film the Revenant. And you'd can tell it is streaming on Netflix now. Roxana, you reviewed this for Vulture. What'd you think?

[Roxanna Haddadi]

I have mixed thoughts on this. Like on the one hand, I am always very drawn to a America bad story that's like very much, you know, like my catnip. I'm like, you know what? That's correct. And something that I really liked about this is that it is not a Taylor Sheridan project. It is a neo Western that does not overlap with Yellowstone or 1980 or Landman or any of the other sort of shows that he has created within his own universe. It is doing something very different from that I talked about in my review that this is really like three westerns in one series. And I think that certain subplots are more effective than others. I think all the Mormon stuff is really fascinating. It has been covered by Jon Krakauer in his nonfiction book under the Banner of Heaven. So I think if you've read that or if you'd watched the FX adaptation of that, some of this is sort of familiar, but I appreciated the. We're really gonna tell you how bad things were because of this religious faction. I think Shea Whigham, great. Kim Coates, great. The other subplots, I think, are varying in a narrative singularity, let's put it that way. But the Mormon stuff, the Shea Whigham stuff, I'm very pro.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah. I mean, the way this is structured, it is truly an ensemble piece. You're gonna be drawn to certain things more than others. Sam, where'd you come down?

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Yeah, pretty similarly. Like, I was a little bit mixed on this whole thing, but I think I came out feeling like this wasn't particularly my thing. This wasn't really for me. And, yeah, there was different scenes, different plot lines that my ears perked up a little bit more for, like when Shay Wigham's on screen or like, when Dane DeHaan's on screen. And that kind of was like. I generally did not have a lot of positive feelings for this show, but I felt like the redeeming quality behind it was that this was going to contribute to the reels of a lot of actors that I really like. You know, when I'm starting this out, I'm like. I'm like, that actor looks familiar. Who's that? And then I realized, oh, my God, that's Dane DeHaan. I haven't seen Dane DeHaan in anything forever. And so I really was just, like, glad to see him in this. And same with Shea Wigham and same with Betty Gilpin. And I did love just how much the show was 110% of everything. It never, for a moment lets up. I just really thought that that was a major redeeming quality in this show that otherwise wasn't exactly my thing.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right. You mentioned Dane Deh. He plays Jacob Pratt. He is one of those very unfortunate Mormon settlers. In the Mormon settler storyline, you know, I kind of echo some of what you guys said. I found this engrossing. I found this involving. I found this compelling. It's hard for me to say, like, when something is as dark and as unrelentingly bleak and violent as this is, but I got sucked into storytelling here partially, mostly, again, mostly because of that Mormon storyline, because the Mormon militia disguises itself as indigenous people and massacres a bunch of settlers, including the caravan that Dane DeHaan is in. And then when one of those settlers survives, the militia takes him along as they hunt down the Native Americans that he thinks were responsible. That in terms of storytelling, that is just layered. That is layers of evil. That is a turducken, a flaky croissant of evil. And it's a question of how they will get found out, when they will get found out. That is suspenseful. Do I think that narrative trap was sprung with the same kind of care that it was set up? No, but still, episodes and episodes went by where I was just really like in that tension. Shea Wiggum we've mentioned, I'm a sucker for. And he's got a part here that seems to be written for him. I've grown mighty partial to this location. And I've also grown way too old and beat down to find another this late in the day. So I'd imagine a price that would make me comfortable. One that would put a real painful.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Burn up your ass so good.

[Glenn Weldon]

I mean, it's the closest thing the show gets to humor, right?

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Yes.

[Glenn Weldon]

Betty Gilpin. I'm a sucker for Betty Gilpin. Did I get tired of the way she was always wrong? Always for the same reason, which is that her soft hearted big city ways aren't made for the cruelty and treachery of the frontier. I get it. Right. I'm not complaining about. But I think that was a lesson that she would have learned a lot faster than she does here.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Like first episode, get out of the way. Yeah, exactly.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

And there's so much stuff that like brought her to this place before. Right. That storyline. I mean, like, I love Taylor Kitsch. I will always. I'm going to defend John Carter every day of my life.

[Glenn Weldon]

Okay. You're the one. Good for you.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

You know, that is the sort of most straightforward. We got two hot people and they're just gonna fight for six episodes until an abrupt resolution. I wish that storyline had felt more carefully considered. Or to your point, Glenn, like at least more interestingly set up. I guess. I don't know how we could have fixed that one, but it's like I really like watching these two people on screen. I like watching them be sarcastic with each other. I just needed more from it.

[Glenn Weldon]

I think this is not where we need to go.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

What? What does that mean?

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[Roxanna Haddadi]

What about her?

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What about her?

[Roxanna Haddadi]

She just said her family was down there.

[Glenn Weldon]

If her family was down there, they'd.

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Be screaming through the trees.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

I think we have to at least see for ourselves.

[Glenn Weldon]

Leave her. I'm gonna say the reason that that plotline didn't work as well as the others is the Taylor Kitsch of it all. I mean, like, I found that character.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Yeah, the character.

[Glenn Weldon]

One note, I love to hate the Jai Courtney bounty hunter character. I love the creepy fur trappers who seem to be wearing human skin, I think. But the Taylor Kitsch character was just. He starts and ends on the same place, which is gruff but, you know.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Reluctantly sad man, dead wife.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Yeah, exactly. All the tropes you expect.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Glenn Weldon]

Beat for beat, right? That's the thing that kind of kicked me out of that. Now, since we have decided to cover this show, the reviews have come out, and many of them, not all, but many of them don't seem to be on board with this show's very blunt depictions of violence, which there is, to be warned, a hell of a lot of. Or it's very dark view of humanity. I don't know. I found the violence to be periodically appropriate, shall we say. If I'm watching a show about this time of history, I should be seeing this kind of violence. Just to be honest, as far as the show's sensibility about human beings, well, it kind of lines up with mine. I found myself just sort of nodding along going, yeah, that would happen. That's what that guy would do.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

People are bad.

[Glenn Weldon]

Did you guys get kicked out by any of that?

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Only a little bit in the sense that I was just like, aren't people supposed to be forming societies out here? Aren't people actually just having normal jobs at times and building things, but they just seem to be like, no, they're mostly killing each other. If you, you know, three people enter, four people die. Like, I don't know how that math is exactly mapping in terms of, like, the grand, you know, American project. I don't know if that was exactly how things would have worked out back then. And there was like a little bit of, like, you know, bullets aren't free. Like, come on, guys. Like, you probably would not shoot that dead person five more times just to be sure that they're dead. Like, let's conserve a little bit here.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

It worked for me because I think, you know, why I always go back to something like Deadwood is to your point, Sam, it is about, like, what does it actually take to build a soc? And what I think was really interesting for me here is that, like, the Mormons have a society like Kim Coates as Brigham Young, I think is, like, very fascinating. And there's this one scene where in one moment, he orders the assassination of this woman and the massacre of the Shoshone. And then like 30 seconds later, he sees a Mormon family with a bunch of young daughters and he's going over and like, kissing them on the forehead and being like, have more that to me, like, that society exists already. Right. And the show is saying, like, that's what America became. Which I don't think is. From my very cynical, pessimistic perspective, I'm like, oh, yeah, that checks out. So I do think there are some very deliberate things here about what kind of people ended up surviving in this place. But again, that's why I think the Mormon storyline worked the most. It felt most connected to what the show is trying to say about what we ended up doing with this country.

[Glenn Weldon]

For not today, brothers, not tomorrow, but someday in the future, our territory and this entire American continent will be Zion. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, Roxanna, because as you also noted in your Vulture review, the thing that sets this apart may be the only thing. The thing that sets us apart is the very explicit way it establishes that religion played a central role in the notion of manifest destiny, American exceptionalism. And that is what's responsible for all this bloodshed we're seeing. I mean, like, that is to tackle that head on. And, you know, not subtly, but absolutely head on seems to me like, okay. And also there's this other thing that dramatically when you establish a character who is so brutally evil, this is something the Greeks knew. Seeing them get their comeuppance as violently as it inevitably happens on the show, that is just viscerally satisfying in every sense of the term.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

One thing that I really did like about this show was that just I felt like there was a good deal of like cross pollination between all of these, like, warring factions where there were like backstabbers and double crossers and people, you know, there was natives who were working with the Mormons. Of course, the Mormons, like, pretending to be Native American themselves, but also, like, forging these alliances so that way they could then, like, stab people in the back. Anyhow.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

I also, to that point, I am very glad that then there wasn't a romance within that cross pollination, because I was very worried that it was gonna be like this nice Mormon lady falls in love with this noble Native American warrior. I was very concerned about that.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah, they were setting that up.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Yeah, there's sort of this, like, recognition, I think, rather of like, what do both of these groups face from like the white Mormon threat. But I did like that it didn't then Plunge into. And then they kiss. I'm glad there was no kiss. Let me just put it that way. How many must die to avenge all you lost?

[Glenn Weldon]

As many as God tells him to.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Your God tells you to kill the whites? Whites believe their God tells them to kill you.

[Glenn Weldon]

It seemed to me like there was a lot of that edging up to a cliche and then backing away from it, particularly in the depictions of indigenous people. There's something going on in the show with depiction of indigenous people because there was an indigenous culture consultant, Julia Keefe, who also worked on Killers of the Flower Moon, which I know only because wasn't so very long ago that that would not have even been considered. But the character of Redfeather, the character played by Derek Hinkey, he's a Shoshone warrior who is always couched as the renegade. Right. He wants war. Unlike Winter Bird, who's played by Irene Bedard. So she's not getting slotted into the warrior slot, but she is getting slotted into the wise, sympathetic elder role, which is stereotypical in a different way. And I feel like the show is aching to include Native Americans, but it keeps pushing them to the sidelines, their plot points. I mean, if you want to go looking for the most egregious example, they bring an indigenous character into the main group of protagonists. This is Two Moons, played by Shawnee Pooyer. But they make it so she can't speak. They literally do not give her a voice. I felt the good intentions, but I also felt a little ham fisted fumbling along the way.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Yeah, it was particularly egregious. Yeah. Just to literally give her no voice. And then she would kind of recede into the background in scenes. And they used that to good effect at one point where the main trio of Betty Gilpin, her son and Taylor Kitsch get kidnapped. And I'm like, oh, my God, how are they gonna get out of this one? And then of course, the character that I completely forgot about, and I can't tell if that was intentional or not, if the whole time I was supposed to be sitting there being like, oh, but I forgot about two moons. They forgot about two moons. The audience is gonna forget about them. Cause she literally doesn't have any character or anything. And I was kind of expecting, oh, yeah, like you talked about leaning into a cliche and then backing away from it. You might have expected her to be like the indigenous guide to the region, where she knows the lay of the land and knows all of the ancient practices to get them safely to their place one time. She has input into a healing thing that does end up working out, but she's never actually depicted as particularly knowledgeable about the region. And I'm just always bewildered watching this. Why do they have her there? I feel bad saying that, but why do they have her there? She's not contributing very much. And Taylor Kitsch is not the kind of character to have dead weight. I just couldn't find any redeeming quality in her. She was just there. And sometimes contributing to the plot, but very, very sparsely.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

The show does leave you with those recurring moments of ambiguity where you sort of have to decide. You're like, is it good that she's here? Because at least she's part of the group. And then she gets to help fight off the wolves who bash their way into the cabin in one of the most climactic scenes. Like, is it good that we didn't make her this all knowing, sort of communicative for. Or should they have done more? And I don't know. I guess I sort of respect that the show has some of those pressure and tension points that make you, as an audience member, decide, maybe I'm doing too much forgiving of the show's tactics, but I like that there are those messy parts that we sort of have to give quality to on our own terms.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Yeah. And this is like, my soapbox for the episode is that there is this kind of messy sensation throughout the thing of, like, well, the indigenous people are being portrayed as violent savages who are, like, conniving and backstabbing and slit throats and torture people and have violent raids. But that's everyone. That's everyone on the show. Yeah. It was messy to kind of think about, like, well, are they doing an injustice by portraying Native Americans the same way that, you know, a lot of Westerns do? Or is it just, like, they're just treating them exactly the same as literally every other character on the show? Like, I almost was, like, curious to, like, know, like, what a Mormon person would think about, like, the depiction of Mormons as, like, violent polygamists. Yeah. Who are, like, trying to convert everyone. It was really. I don't know, while watching this, I was, like, needling through, like, yeah, like, the representation is fairly accurate in terms of, like, costume and, you know, the different tribes and how, you know, the different cultures. But then is that responsible or not in this show that already has literally no redeemable characters.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right. And one thing that happens to a lot of those irredeemable characters is that they die off such that I feel like this limited series is limited. I think they cleared the call sheet. I don't think there's too many people left. It would be a different series, but in 2025, it feels good to have a six episode limited series that tells a story with a beginning, middle and an end. Right.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

I'm gonna respect that structure. I mean, we could look, Shea Wiggum does just like walk off into the wilderness.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Shea Wiggum spinoff. Yeah.

[Glenn Weldon]

I mean, I would see a Shea Wiggum spinoff.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

All of us would be like, let's watch Shea Wiggum's character build a new fort. I would watch that.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yep. Yep. Like Age of Empires. Just watch him like, you know, build a fort. Build a fort. Build a fort.

[Sam Yellow Horse Kessler]

Bridger's Place. That'd be, yeah, the sitcom TV show with Cheers, but hits a fort.

[Glenn Weldon]

I mean, there are Netflix people listening, so let's hope. Yeah, yeah, we're I mean, there's a lot to recommend here. There's a lot that we're scratching our head about. But we want to know what you think about American Primeval. Find us at [e-mail] PCHH and that brings us to the end of our show. Roxana Haddadi, Sam Yellow Horse Kessler, thank you so much for being here.

[Roxanna Haddadi]

Thank you.

[Glenn Weldon]

Thank you so much. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Lennon Sherburne and edited by Mike Katsif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy. And hello. Come in provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow.

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