Pop Culture Happy Hour: Avatar: Fire And Ash and What’s Making Us Happy

Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Stephen Thompson (NPR)
Guests: Rhianna Cruz (Freelance Journalist), Chris Klimek (Writer)

Episode Overview

This episode covers the newly released Avatar: Fire and Ash, the third installment in James Cameron's visually-stunning sci-fi epic. The hosts and guests dissect its spectacle, storytelling, and how it fits into today’s cinematic landscape. The episode then shifts to the panel’s favorite pop culture discoveries in the “What’s Making Us Happy” segment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. General Impressions of Avatar: Fire and Ash

[02:19-04:52]

• Stephen Thompson introduces the film as a “visually stunning nearly three and a half hour movie full of epic battles, uneasy alliances, human assimilation, and debates with whales.”
• The plot reportedly gets complicated, but what most stands out is the spectacle and the immersive world-building.

Rhianna Cruz’s Take

• Excitement for the Franchise:
  • “I was very excited to plug into the Tree of Eywa for this one.” [02:53]
  • Rhianna self-identifies as an “Avatar head,” excited to revisit familiar characters and environments.
• Accepting the Flaws:
  • “I know these movies are flawed…plot details you could see from a mile away…metaphors are clumsy…certain characters, you don’t really know what to do with them. Namely, Spider. Right. But the thing is that I don’t really care, frankly. I need theatrical experiences, especially in this day and age.” [03:17]
  • The return to Pandora is a major draw, even if the film doesn’t reach the heights of Way of Water.

Memorable Quote

“There is a campaign for Avatar: Fire and Ash that’s almost in jest, that’s like, see it five times.”
— Rhianna Cruz [04:56]

2. Comparisons with Previous Avatars and Filmmaking Trends

[05:24-07:21]

• Chris Klimek finds this entry less impactful than its predecessor:
  • “This is not a part three. This is like part two, part two.” [05:28]
  • He draws a parallel with blockbuster sequels like The Empire Strikes Back, explaining the previous time-jump between films brought more narrative freshness.
  • The shorter gap before Fire and Ash results in “more of the same”—impressive yet not as groundbreaking.

Rhianna’s Counterpoint

• “It fills the same needs as the last one. And there’s even some scenes in Fire and Ash that are kind of bar for bar, exact scenes from Way of Water.” [12:55]

3. Visual Spectacle vs. Narrative Depth

[07:21-10:55]

• Stephen appreciates the film’s technical prowess:
  • “There are, like, visual set pieces in this film that are just absolutely remarkable…It is gorgeous.” [07:21]
• Criticisms:
  • The movie’s length and pacing are issues (“There’s one point…where I admit I kind of peeked at my phone”) [08:09]
  • The abundance of lore and an anticlimactic final battle [09:41]
  • Discussion if the technological wow-factor will age well as others catch up: “The whole plot kind of centers on this white savior narrative that we’ve seen play out a million times. The dialogue is a little video gamey. Are these gonna age well?” [09:53]

Rhianna’s Response

• “The flaws with these movies have always been the scripts…These things permeate over the course of the franchise. I don’t know if they’ll age well…But I think we don’t really get epic capital E movies a lot these days. And that’s really what floors me.” [10:13, 10:54]

4. Character and Storytelling Weaknesses

[11:24-13:38]

• The “Spider” Problem:

  • Rhianna: “Every time Spider is on screen…just his mere character kind of gives me the ick, so to speak.” [11:45]
  • Chris: “Dramatically expanding his screen time from the Way of Water was not an asset to this film, in my opinion.” [11:48]

• Repetitive Scenes:

  • Key emotional beats and confrontations are repeated almost verbatim from previous films, which Chris points out as redundant:

    “Gives him his dog tag again. Again, like, you did that dad, right?” [13:33]

  • Stephen wonders if these scenes are essential to such a lengthy runtime.

5. Immersion, Craft, and Franchise Context

[13:50-15:08]

• Rhianna discusses the joy of immersion: “Avatar movies kind of like serve as a balm of like the age we live in … so devoted to the craft of filmmaking, and that’s like, not something you really see anymore.” [13:50]

• The importance of theatrical world-building as an antidote to fast-food media culture.

• Saga Structure and Planet of the Apes Parallels:

  • Rhianna: “It reminds me of the Planet of the Apes movies, the Matt Reeves Planet of the Apes franchise…” [15:08]
  • Chris adds that some of the same writers were involved, highlighting the creative convergence.

6. James Cameron: Filmmaker and Auteur

[15:10-16:14]

• Chris lauds Cameron’s past economy and inventiveness but thinks modern Cameron might benefit from more restraint:

  “He was the king of economy, the king of stretching a buck. And art really does thrive on restriction… I think a little restriction, you know, someone to tell him no could only help him at this point.” [15:52-16:14]

• Stephen says the movie’s expense is evident—“This movie looks like it cost $400 million.” [16:14]

7. Emotional Resonance and Fun

[17:37-18:46]

• Stephen admits the emotional beats “just don’t hit me as hard as they might in a different franchise.” [17:31]
• Rhianna feels the emotional drama as “melodrama, a soap opera” and enjoys interpreting character drama in a fun, almost gossipy way:

  “I’m watching these and I’m sitting there with my popcorn being like, there’s drama here. You know, I’m being like spoon fed drama.” [17:37]

Notable Quotes

• On the franchise’s appeal:

  “I know the metaphors are clumsy. I know that certain characters, you don’t really know what to do with them. Namely Spider. Right. But the thing is that I don’t really care, frankly. I need theatrical experiences.”
  — Rhianna Cruz [03:17]

• On the technical spectacle:

  “There are, like, visual set pieces in this film that are just absolutely remarkable…It is gorgeous.”
  — Stephen Thompson [07:21]

• On the repetitiveness:

  “Gives him his dog tag again. Again, like, you did that dad, right?”
  — Chris Klimek [13:33]

• On Avatar’s place in modern cinema:

  “We don’t really get epic capital E movies a lot these days. And I think that’s really what floors me.”
  — Rhianna Cruz [10:54]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:53] — Rhianna Cruz initial impressions on Fire and Ash
• [04:56] — “See it five times” meme
• [07:21] — Stephen Thompson on visual spectacle
• [10:13] — Will the Avatar franchise age well?
• [11:24] — The character of Spider and writing frustrations
• [12:55] — Movie repeats scenes from earlier installments
• [15:52] — Chris Klimek on Cameron’s “DIY” roots and need for restraint
• [17:31] — Emotional beats and their effectiveness

What’s Making Us Happy This Week

[20:57-26:10]

Rhianna Cruz:

• Movie: Where the Heart Is (2000, dir. Matt Williams)
  • Natalie Portman as a pregnant woman giving birth in a Walmart, surrounded by quirky characters
  • “It kind of plays out like a stage play…The credits rolled, I started clapping because I felt like I lived a journey in my living room.” [21:23]

Chris Klimek:

• Event/Film: Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair
  • Restored five-hour viewing of the Kill Bill saga at AFI Silver Theater
  • “When we finally get to the confrontation with the villain David Carradine, it unfolds just as a conversation and then a very quick pithy battle…It just knows exactly how to put a powerful bit of punctuation on the end…” [23:46]

Stephen Thompson:

• Album: The Boy Who Played the Harp by Dave
  • “It’s a gorgeous, haunted, searching record that, for me anyway, is filling out 2025’s remaining days with rich and rewarding musical discovery.”
  • Played a snippet of the title track, noting guests like James Blake and Thames [25:04]

Tone & Style

• Conversation is lively, occasionally tongue-in-cheek, and warm
• Panelists bring self-awareness and humor (“I know I keep bringing [Spider] up like, Spider is the…” – Rhianna Cruz [10:54])
• Sincere admiration for filmmaking craft mixed with playful critique and pop culture savvy banter

Conclusion

Avatar: Fire and Ash sparks lively debate: Is it more-of-the-same or epic cinematic comfort? Regardless, the technical spectacle is universally appreciated, even as the script and character beats receive mixed reviews. The panel closes with heartfelt pop culture recommendations, as always leaving the door open for a spectrum of opinions—and a deep love for the big, messy world of movies.