Black Bag And What's Making Us Happy

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: "Black Bag And What's Making Us Happy"

Release Date: March 14, 2025
Host: NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour
Guests: Ba Parker (Host of NPR's Code Switch), Bob Mondello (NPR Film Critic)

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1. Spotlight on "Black Bag"

Overview:
In this episode, the Pop Culture Happy Hour team dives into Steven Soderbergh's latest film, Black Bag. The movie stars Michael Fassbender as George, a London-based spy adept at reading people, and Cate Blanchett as his wife Catherine, also involved in espionage. The plot centers around the discovery of a mole within their agency who has stolen lethal software, prompting George to host a dinner party to unmask the traitor.

Key Discussions:

• Stylish Cinematography and Ensemble Cast:
  Ba Parker praises the film's "taut thriller" nature and its impressive ensemble, highlighting performances by Fassbender, Blanchett, Naomi Harris, and Pierce Brosnan. She remarks, "It's ridiculous, like Pierce Brosnan, but like, it's like this incredible ensemble that Soderbergh is lucky to have" (02:22).

• Steven Soderbergh's Direction:
  The conversation touches on Soderbergh's prolific work, with Ba expressing admiration for his consistent output: "He's way more prolific than he needs to be" (02:22). She also compares Black Bag to Soderbergh's experimental films, noting the director's penchant for "90-minute experiments."

• Plot and Themes:
  Bob Mondello draws parallels between Black Bag and Edward Albee's Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, noting the influence in the film's dinner party dynamics. He states, "They’re trying to figure out which of these people is conceivably the leak" (08:51). Glen Weldon adds that the movie effectively blends stylish elements with espionage, creating a "stylish AF" experience that stays true to its spy thriller roots.

• Character Development and Chemistry:
  Glen highlights the chemistry between Fassbender and Blanchett, observing, "Both characters emerge when they're together on screen. We find out about George, that he's a wife guy" (03:54). Ba comments on Fassbender's portrayal of a "certified lover boy" whose affection for his wife serves as both strength and vulnerability in his espionage role.

• Production Design and Wardrobe:
  The hosts admire the film's aesthetic, particularly the meticulous production design and costumes. Glen notes, "the way that George is tailored so precisely... serves the story" (07:45), while Bob adds, "You can't dress Cate Blanchett frumpishly. I'm not sure it's possible" (07:49). The elegant and cohesive visual style underscores the characters' sophisticated spy personas.

Notable Quotes:

• Ba Parker (02:22):
  "It's like this really taut thriller. The ensemble is top notch."

• Bob Mondello (05:18):
  "There is a level of them that I just sort of... it's better than 80% of everything that's out there."

• Glen Weldon (03:54):
  "This movie understands the damn assignment."

• Ba Parker (06:21):
  "I just gotta let it flow over you. This is my thing."

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2. What Is Making Us Happy This Week

Ba Parker’s Happy Source:
Father John Misty's "Mahash Mashana"

Ba shares her delight in revisiting Father John Misty's latest album, Mahash Mashana. After taking a break from Kendrick Lamar's GNN Too Much, she praises the album's brevity and impactful tracks, particularly the six-minute-long "Mental Health." She enthuses, "Mental health, mental health in the chorus. Mental health." (13:13).

Bob Mondello’s Happy Source:
Athol Fugard’s Plays

Bob finds joy in the timeless works of Athol Fugard, the renowned South African playwright who recently passed away. Reflecting on Fugard's impactful plays written during apartheid, Bob commends his "astonishing talent" and the "clarity" of his writing. He emphasizes the enduring relevance of Fugard’s exploration of humanity and societal issues, sharing, "Everything is very clear. It's all gorgeous writing." (14:06).

**Glen Weldon’s Happy Source:
Azrael (2024)

Glen expresses his enthusiasm for the horror film Azrael, starring Samara Weaving. He appreciates her consistent performances in roles where she "ends up covered in somebody else's blood," referencing her characters in The Babysitter and Ready or Not. Glen highlights the film's unique plot elements and its blend of humor and horror, stating, "It’s a big swing and it is just the right amount of goofy and I kind of love it." (15:51).

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Conclusion

In this episode, Pop Culture Happy Hour offers a comprehensive and engaging analysis of Black Bag, blending critical insights with personal reflections from the hosts. The discussion seamlessly transitions into the "What is Making Us Happy" segment, providing a well-rounded exploration of current entertainment and cultural highlights. Whether you're a fan of stylish thrillers or seeking inspiration from the arts, this episode delivers thoughtful commentary and diverse perspectives.

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Notable Timestamps:

• Introduction of "Black Bag": 00:36
• Ba Parker Discusses Ensemble Cast: 01:59
• Bob Mondello on Soderbergh’s Direction: 02:45
• Production Design Appreciation: 07:45
• Happy Hour Segment Introduction: 13:07
• Ba Parker on "Mahash Mashana": 13:13
• Bob Mondello on Athol Fugard: 14:06
• Glen Weldon on "Azrael": 15:51

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Stay Connected:
For more insights and recommendations discussed in this episode, visit NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour or subscribe to their newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter.

Transcript

[Nick Stone]

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[Glen Weldon]

The cool, stylish new Steven Soderbergh film Black Bag is about a group of British spies who discover there's a traitor in their midst. It stars Michael Fassbender and Cate Blanchett. He's a lie detector expert. She's one of his chief suspects. But the thing is, they're married. I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about Black Bag on Pop Culture Happy hour from NPR. Joining me today is Ba Parker. She's one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast. Welcome to the show, Parker.

[Ba Parker]

Thank you.

[Shopify Sponsor]

Hi.

[Glen Weldon]

Hi. Also with us is NPR film critic Bob Mondello. Welcome back, Bob.

[Bob Mondello]

It's always a pleasure.

[Glen Weldon]

Always a pleasure. So in Black Bag, Michael Fassbender plays George, a London based spy who's great at reading people. Cate Blanchett plays his wife Catherine, also a spy. When George learns one of his colleagues is a mole who has stolen deadly software, he invites them over to dinner. What's on the menu?

[Bob Mondello]

Fun and games.

[Glen Weldon]

Will it be a mess to clean up? With any luck, by the time dinner's over, after a few party games, mind games and a chana masala dosed with truth serum, George is dismayed that his wife is heavily implicated. He has one week to discover the traitor, and the only tools at his disposal are his wits, his polygraph and how good he looks in a turtleneck. Seriously, both George and Catherine, our stylish AF Black Bag, is in theaters now. Parker, kick us off. What'd you make of this stylish af.

[Ba Parker]

Just made me giggle, sir. I mean, I really enjoyed it. It was like this really taut thriller. The ensemble is great. Like, that ensemble is top notch. You've got Michael Fassbender, you've got Cate Blanchett, you've got Naomi Harris. It's ridiculous, like Pierce Brosnan, but like, it's like this incredible ensemble that Soderbergh is lucky to have, to be honest.

[Glen Weldon]

That's true.

[Ba Parker]

And I was gonna see it anyway because I'm a big Steven Soderbergh Nerd. And I love his 90 minute, like, experiments. Like, I was the first one to see presents at the beginning of the year. He's way more prolific than he needs to be. I can't believe he threatened to retire a while back when we could have like these every couple of years.

[Glen Weldon]

Uh huh. All right, Bob, what'd you make of it?

[Bob Mondello]

Well, it kind of had me when I first read that he. Apparently Soderbergh said to David Koepp at one point, the screenwriter wouldn't it be interesting if who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf had. Had been conceived as a spy thriller? Well, in that clip we just played, he said fun and Games. Fun and Games is the title of the first act of who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? And because I was sort of keyed into that, I had a wonderful time with it at first I was like, oh, my God, they're gonna be playing games and they're gonna be sitting there and the lesser people are going to get caught up in their business and. Oh, dear. Well, it kind of doesn't go there. I mean, it does some interesting things. And there's no question that the two of them are a team. Even when they're fighting or even when they're not. When they're not acting in sync, it's them against the rest of the world. That part of it is all definitely Edward Albee. So I got a kick out of that. For Soderbergh, it seems to me that it's kind of lesser Soderbergh. I mean, that's better than 80% of everything that's out there. So true. You, you know, that's fine, right?

[Glen Weldon]

So, yeah, I hear what you're saying, Bob, because, I mean, I thought this was a very light, very stylish little movie that I'm not gonna remember in a month, but that while I was sitting there in that theater, I thought, this movie understands the damn assignment. I mean, I like Fassbender in this, even though he's hard to get your hands around at first. It's such an inward performance that he kind of seems like a cipher. And I was thinking to myself, why invest in this guy? But then we see him with Blanchett, right? And his character emerges. Both characters emerge when they're together on screen. We find out about George, that he's a wife guy, and the script needs him to be that. Because the gimmick of this movie is that a marriage is like being a spy. And that there's things you tell your spouse. There are other things that go in the black bag. What they call the black bag. The stuff you keep confidential. I agree with you, Bob, about that dinner party at the start of the movie. It goes on so long, you have a chance to think, is this the movie? Is this what we're gonna be doing? Cause I would be if we never got up from that table. I would be happy. But then the plot, plot kicks in, and the plot, plot involves a cyber worm called Severus that could cause a nuclear explosion in Russia. And I remember thinking I was loving this dosed Chana Masala movie. I'm not sure how I feel about the Cyberworm called Severus movie, because it seems like Cyberworm called Severus movies are kind of thick on the ground, but DOS Channel Masala movies are not. Do you understand what I'm saying there?

[Bob Mondello]

I have no idea what you said, but yes, I understand what you're saying. Listen, there is a thing about movies that are going to take down something like spy intelligence, that there's a level of them that I just sort of. Okay, well, isn't Tom Cruise doing that in Mission Impossible? And didn't I just have to deal with it so that I'm forever sort of resisting?

[Ba Parker]

But not in turtlenecks.

[Glen Weldon]

That's true. We will talk about the wardrobe. Yes.

[Bob Mondello]

Yeah. Well, everything about the two of them is so gorgeous. It's. Oh, my God. I thought it was fine. I had a decent time at it. I'm not gonna go to bat for this movie. I just. It's fun.

[Glen Weldon]

All right, Parker, go to bat for this movie.

[Ba Parker]

You just gotta let it flow over you. This is my thing. Immediately, like, Michael Fassbender's character felt like a bit of an anachronism because he's always in the thick black glasses and the turtlenecks, and everyone seems like everyone is so impeccable. But it also. I thought it informed this kind of, like, the Fassbender trend right now of him being like, a certified lover boy who's kind of bad at his job.

[Glen Weldon]

Okay, say more.

[Ba Parker]

This from the killer to the Agency, which is also SP to Black Bag. It's just like a guy who just, like, really loves a girl, and that tends to be, like, his weakness when it comes to actually being able to get the job done. We'll say about the plot. It's the same thing I remember someone saying years ago about Tarantino's Jackie Brown. It's like, I don't know what's going on until I know what's going on. That's how I felt immediately while watching Black Bag, when they started talking about severance, I was like, I don't care. I know that things are happening. And I'm being told that I should be stressed out about it. And you know what? I'll be stressed out about it. I'm letting it flow over me.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah, that's great. We wanna talk, I think, about their townhouse, about their wardrobe. I mean, they say, obviously people give out Oscars for not the best acting, but for the most acting. The same thing is true for production design and for costumes. It's always the most production design, like sci fi, the most costumes. But I would argue that this gorgeous townhouse says so much about them as a couple. And the way that George is tailored so precisely, so fastidiously, I think that serves the story. That's what production design and costuming are supposed to do. At one point, Catherine walks in the front door and shrugs off this incredibly buttery leather coat. And you're like, I get her. I see who that is.

[Bob Mondello]

You've never been more gay, sir.

[Glen Weldon]

That's probably false, but go on.

[Bob Mondello]

You're absolutely right. And she is. I don't know that you can dress Cate Blanchett frumpishly. I'm not sure it's possible. I mean, she's so elegant. It is gorgeous. And the interior design of that apartment is breathtaking. But so is the exterior of some of the buildings that are around. I mean, every time they go outside. It's also production designed to fare thee well. I can't think of an image in the movie that looks, you know, somebody swept something into a corner. It just. It doesn't feel that way. It's all gorgeous. It's very much of a piece. I quite like this. I was torn by the tension between what I thought it was going to be going in when I heard the thing about who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? And what it actually is. And I suspect that having that in my head prejudiced me in a certain way. I was looking for tweedy. I'm not saying that I would have liked it better without that, but I'm intrigued by my own reaction to it, because I was looking for tweedy and what, New England messy. It isn't that at all. It's the opposite of that.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah.

[Ba Parker]

Thought like elbow patches.

[Bob Mondello]

Yeah, exactly. I mean. Cause Virginia woolf is about 2. Well, a college professor and his wife, who is the daughter of the president of the university. And they have another couple come over. Well, these guys have their co workers come over and it's for much the same reason. It's to sort of. I mean, they're playing get the guest. Right. And after a little while, that's exact. I mean, that's very precise. I'm not sure they say it in the movie, but that's the game that George and Martha play in who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? And get the Guest is absolutely what they're doing. They're trying to figure out which of these people is conceivably the leak, I guess, of agency secrets. It all sort of fits into what I thought it was going to be and doesn't look at all like what I thought it was going to be. Even after seeing the trailer, I'm more interested in my own mixed reaction to it than I am sort of in the plot. That is. I think you said something similar to that. And I don't know that it matters where this ends up going. It's such a fun ride going there.

[Ba Parker]

I had no expectations and no context. When I went in to see it, all I knew was who the director was and who the actors were. It really. It reminded me of, like, Soderbergh's, like, Ocean's Twelve of. Just like cat and mouse. We're gonna do a few magic tricks throughout the plot to trick you a little bit and then go about your day.

[Glen Weldon]

That's right.

[Ba Parker]

That's fine with me. That's kind of. So to break the deal, like a mini, kind of cinematic heist.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah. Then you go home. I mean, I think Kep kind of sensed that there was some kind of electricity in that opening dinner party scene that maybe gets a little stretched out over the cyberworm called Severus. The film ends with another dinner party scene, another George and Martha fun and games scene that resolves the plot. I loved seeing Reggae Jean Page on my screen. He's always great. I was worried about him when he left Bridgerton because I thought he was going to be doing.

[Ba Parker]

He's doing.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah. Because, you know, to people of a certain age, we call that pulling a Caruso. When David Caruso left NYPD Blue. But he's great here. He's playing a jerk. And he plays such a conceited, wonderful jerk.

[Ba Parker]

Yeah.

[Glen Weldon]

I think from our discussion you can learn that if you like Parker and I just kind of see this movie where it is. You're gonna enjoy it.

[Bob Mondello]

But if you're Bob, Bob is always expecting too much. That is the story of my life. Please forgive.

[Ba Parker]

You just gotta vibe out, Bob. Just let the vibes flow over you.

[Glen Weldon]

This is the story of Bob's life. He needs to vibe out. Tell us what you think about Black Bag. Find us on [e-mail] PCHH and on [e-mail] NPRpopculture we'll have a link in our episode description up next, what is making us happy this week?

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[Glen Weldon]

Time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What is making us happy this week? Parker, what is making you happy this week?

[Ba Parker]

Oh, it's making me happy this week. So I finally stopped listening to a played Kendrick Lamar's GNX Too much. And I can finally go back and listen to the latest Father John Misty Mahas Mashana. And it's just, it's only eight songs but I've been playing it on repeat for the past two weeks. And there's a song called Mental Health that's like six minutes long and it just plays like a chant now. Mental health, mental health in the chorus. Mental health.

[Bob Mondello]

No one knows you like yourself appropriate to our time. Yeah.

[Ba Parker]

So the thing that's making me happy right now is Father John Misty's album, Mahash Mashana.

[Glen Weldon]

Thank you very much, Parker. Okay, Bob, what is making you happy this week.

[Bob Mondello]

So what's making me happy is something that initially made me really sad. Atholic Fugard, the South African playwright, recently died. And I remember seeing his plays, gosh, back in the 1980s and up into the 2000s. I actually saw him once at the, at the Kennedy center. And, you know, great playwrights. And I think it's. He's arguably one of the great playwrights in any language in the 20th century. Have something characteristic about them. I mean, if you think about, say, Tennessee Williams, he's all about the poetry of language, right? And Arthur Miller is all about the politics of interaction. I think what was amazing about Athol Fugard was that his plays written during apartheid in South Africa were very much about that moment in history. And they were so intensely about humanity and about the simplicity of how people dealt with those issues. And they were written in very simple language. Everything is very clear. The clarity is astonishing, in fact, and it's just gorgeous writing. I went online and I found a whole lot of clips from productions of his plays, from movies of his plays, from just all kinds of things. They're all sort of revelatory about the kinds of things that people feel in situations that are very difficult. And he was an astonishing talent. He is an astonishing talent. And we have him still in his work. And the wonderful thing is that you can go and find it online. That is what's making me happy. The plays of Athol Fugard.

[Glen Weldon]

All right, thank you very much. What is making me happy this week? Azrael is a 2024 horror film starring Samara Weaving. Look, I'm a sucker for any movie in which Samara Weaving ends up covered in somebody else's blood because she has been kicking butt and taking names. She did it in the babysitter. She did it in Ready or Not. She does it here. Though I will say it takes an awfully long time to open that can of wapas. But when she does open it, it gets well and truly opened. This movie is a lot in terms of its plot. It is set after the rapture. Also, there's a cult that removes its members voice boxes. Also, there are evil creatures in the woods who rip you up and eat you. Also, there's no dialogue in the mov see above in remembers voice boxes. And it's mostly her getting chased through the woods by cultists or creatures or both to, you know, the movie we're talking about today. This thing clocks in at a zippy hour and 25 minutes. It is certainly doing its own thing. It is, you know, idiosyncratic as hell. And, you know, I was watching it and I was liking it and I thought, yeah, I like this. This does not rise to the level of a happy. That's a high bar for me. And then the ending happened and I will say nothing about it except that it goes there. It it's a big swing and it is just the right amount of goofy and I kind of love it. That is Asriel, which is streaming on AMC and available on VOD elsewhere. And that is what is making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our [e-mail] pop culturenewsletter and that brings us to the end of our show. B.A. parker, Bob Mondelo, thank you so much for being here.

[Bob Mondello]

It's great to be here.

[Ba Parker]

Thank you.

[Glen Weldon]

This this episode was produced by Hafsa Fatima and edited by Mike Katsif. Our supervising producer is, of course, Jessica Reedy, and Aloka Men provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon and we'll see you all next week.

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