Stephen Thompson (2:49)

Joining me today is NPR music editor Sheldon Pearce, welcome back to the show, Sheldon.

Sheldon Pearce (2:53)

So happy to be back.

Stephen Thompson (2:54)

It is great to have you. Also with us making her pop culture happy hour debut, NPR Music executive producer Soraya Mohamed. Welcome to the show, Saraya.

Soraya Mohamed (3:03)

Hey, Stephen. Glad to be here.

Stephen Thompson (3:04)

I am delighted to have you both here to talk about this record. So the last time BTS released a full length studio album, it was the fall of 2020. Dynamite topped the pop charts and K pop was truly cemented as a major force in US pop music. BTS went on hiatus in 2022 in order to allow its seven members to complete mandatory military service in Korea and to release a string of successful solo albums. But the K pop landscape has changed considerably during their sort of absence. More groups broke through and K Pop demon hunters became a global phenomenon. Still, the return of BTS was always going to be a colossal deal in K pop. They have a big year planned, including a worldwide stadium tour. And Arirang announces the band's return with a mix of hip pop and R and B, aided by collaborators such as Diplo, jpeg Mafia and Kevin Parker of Tame Impala. Sheldon Pearce, I'm going to start with you. What are your initial thoughts on Arirang?

Sheldon Pearce (4:03)

Yeah, I mean, to me, I mean, thinking about all the context that you just mentioned, this feels like BTS sort of like reveling in the impact that it has had on the pop music landscape. It really sort of blew a hole open for. For a kind of like cultural revolution that has happened in the four years since. And on this album, which is a true homecoming, Arirang is a reference to a folk song that has endured across generations in Korea. It is sort of a symbol of national pride and you can see this as them sort of like stamping their place in this moment. There's a line on the song Aliens where RM is like everybody knows now where the K is. It feels like they're like saying like, we put this nation on the map and we are sort of like owning our influence in this moment. It also feels to me like the moment where there is like a true defined BTS sound. Like, apart from all of its influences, K pop is always like very referential. The groups are shape shifters who pull in sounds from across the pop landscape. And so it can be hard to like sort of find your identity as a group in all of that. I think this album makes a case for bts, despite all of that referentiality, having a distinct sound all its own. And so it's one of their best records in my opinion.

Stephen Thompson (5:42)

Okay, we're Going to unpack that sound in a minute. But, Saraya, give me your initial thoughts.

Soraya Mohamed (5:46)

Well, just speaking as a member of

Stephen Thompson (5:48)

the army, yes, you are here because you are army through and through. I know this about you.

Soraya Mohamed (5:54)

Yeah, I left my light stick upstairs, but. But I had it when I was watching the Netflix special. I just needed to talk about the years long wait that we had for this album. And, you know, it was pretty much excruciating because, you know, these songs and this music, you're listening to it all the time. And the anticipation that's building due in part to their incredible production machine. Right. The way they drop songs and albums and their marketing campaign, it's almost like drug induced. Like the way the Instagram algorithm, like, keeps you wanting for more. And so I've been feeling that. And with my friends who love the band, you know, we've been talking about it and we've been like, trying to get ready, like, when's the tour gonna start? When are we gonna buy the tickets? And yes, I bought my tickets for when they come to the east coast in Baltimore.

Stephen Thompson (6:49)

Which organs did you sell?

Soraya Mohamed (6:51)

I dipped into my retirement.

Stephen Thompson (6:52)

I'm not gonna need both kidneys in retirement.

Soraya Mohamed (6:56)

Yes, it was a pretty penny, but anyway, just really grateful that they're finally back. You know, I think a lot of this record is the BTS that we know and love, but they're also stretching out into other ways and exploring sort of like other genre expansions. And so I think it's like the perfect blend of what you would expect and what you hope for that is new. You always want to be surprised and inspired by some creative angle that you only expect them to deliver.

Stephen Thompson (7:30)

Yeah, I was really intrigued listening to this record. I mean, there. There's quite a bit of energy here. They're coming out of the gates kind of, as Sheldon said, like, we're back, we're not kind of holding back. They kind of charge out of the gate with these very kind of hip hop inflected songs. You. You really get the sense, particularly in like the first five tracks here, that like BTS has been listening to a ton of hip hop. They've always incorporated lots of hip hop into their sound, but it really like sounds at times straight up like a hip hop record. And then you get this interlude with the sixth track, Number 29, which is just kind of the sounding of a bell, which, Sheldon, I'm going to ask you to kind of break down the exact meaning of that. But then coming out of that, you have a string of much more Kind of, I would say, ingratiating pop songs. Songs that feel a little more pop radio friendly. Songs like Swim, songs like Merry Go Round, that feel a little bit more like kind of classic, kind of poppier BTs. But you're still getting woven into these songs, really modern strains of hip hop and R and B that have. That have turned up really, in the last few years.

Sheldon Pearce (8:43)

Yeah. I mean, it's sort of interesting that you say that to me, because I have always thought of BTS as a rap group first. In fact, like the way in which they are constructed, they were originally a rap group that was essentially morphed into a pop group because there was more commercial potential in a pop group. And so I think if you listen, even going back to 2016 to their songs, they have always structured their songs around rap verses first and then had them pivot into these sort of, like, lithe and light vocal performances that sort of, like, juxtapose the, like, swaggering energy of rap with this more almost like Pretty boy presentation, if you will. To me, the reason why I think of this BTS record as being sort of like the defining BTS record, if you want to think of a BTS record as the one, is because it does lean so heavily into the fact that, like, RM is the leader of this group. He is a rapper.

Stephen Thompson (9:48)

I mean, RM stands for Rap Monster. Rap Monster.

Sheldon Pearce (9:51)

Right. And so it's like he is the member credited on the most tracks as a writer. Obviously, auteurship and authorial intent has been key to this group. They were sort of on the forefront of that in K pop. And so to me, this is a record that is very much saying, like, this is what BTS is. We are a rap group first, but we also are a wide ranging, expansive pop experiment that can do all of the things and you hear them sort of blossom out in the second half.

Stephen Thompson (10:22)

Saraya, are you a BTS rap fan or a BTS pop fan?

Soraya Mohamed (10:25)

I'm a rap fan, yeah. I like what you said, Sheldon, about, you know, they're a rap band first. And I just want to also point out that Korean language and hip hop, like, just go really well together. The way the cadences of the language and the way they speak. And I don't know any Korean, but I just love the rhythmic cadence that they do. And then they're transferring over into English hip hop really well. Also, I love how they rap so well.

Stephen Thompson (11:06)

I wanted to touch on that track six, the kind of what feels like a moment of silence between the kind of Hip hop bangers that open the record and the pop bangers that fill out a lot of the second half. Number 29 is the name of. I'm calling it a song, but the track, it's basically you hear and you really have to listen closely because the first time I heard it, I just heard 1 minute and 38 seconds of silence. But what happens is basically at the beginning of the track you hear the sound like kind of a tone, kind of the sounding of a bell. And it's the sound of the divine bell of King Songdok. But it's really like. And then it spends the rest of the track just fading into silence. It's interesting because, you know, it's really easy to think of BTS as this global, ultra commercial superstar, popular slash hip hop group. But there's also a lot here, Sheldon, about Korean heritage and about Korean history. From the title of this record on down. How did that affect your enjoyment of these songs? Like, were you able to kind of dig into the history behind these songs?

Sheldon Pearce (12:18)

Well, yeah, I think it's sort of interesting because they have been selling this record as a record about identity, about cultural legacy, about history. I don't think you hear that. But baldly on the surface of this record it is still sort of leaning very much to the sounds of the American top 40. But what I do hear in this record is like the continuation of a long standing like cultural mission to like bring South Korea to the world. The toiling of the divine bell at that. It feels kind of like an inflection moment on the record that separates this sort of like chest beating, like King making section of the record from a more like introspective, inward looking part of the record that thinks about the group's place in the broader history of their nation. It's sort of interesting because if you think about the first half as we set the stage for this, like we made this happen, it feels like the second half is very much like we are appreciative of all that came before and allowed us to be here. I think the two halves of those records, like being in conversation with one another, tell you a lot about what BTS sees as its mission. It has always sort of like pitched itself as like the thinking boys K pop boy band. They've talked a lot about like mental health. They've talked a lot about like being socially conscious in their nation and beyond. And they've talked a lot about sort of like trying to break down the like, artifice around what it means to be a K pop Idol. I don't think they've always succeeded at that. I mean, it's a lot to bite off. But if you think about a song like Normal on this record, which has a lot of lyrics about sort of like how difficult it can be to reconcile the innermost part of yourself with the forward facing part of yourself that is literally being presented for commodification, It's interesting to hear them sort of like work through those two aspects of personal, like, sort of self fulfillment and then like professional obligation in the literal, like, way that this record sounds.

Soraya Mohamed (14:52)

That's the moment in the. In the album to practice gratitude. Right? And that's what they're all about. They're always like, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you to our fans, thank you to the army. We're so happy to be here. We're so happy to be making music for you. I think they're really excited to be presenting this album to us right now. And so, you know, when you're listening to the album, how often do we listen to music and then just stop and sort of meditate or stop and just be quiet, like, that's pretty crazy. I mean, you'll put on your meditation music or you put on your slow introspective music, right? But like in the middle of some bangers, that's kind of different to have that happen just all of a sudden. And so I really like it and I think it's like a great way to experience music in a different way.

Stephen Thompson (15:38)

One of my favorite things about number 29 is that that song will hit the Billboard charts next week, and we'll certainly rank among the quietest songs ever to do. So I wanted to ask y' all about your. Your favorite tracks on this record. What has jumped out at you in the few days that you've had to spend with it?

Soraya Mohamed (15:58)

You know, I was thinking, like, when I hear F, I feel like that's going to be a summer, Anthony, and you're going to be hearing that in the clubs. And, you know, we talk about K pop and we talk about krb, but I think there's K club. When you go in the club and you hear BTS playing, at least I'm looking forward to hearing that. So Body to Body is also one of my favorites. It's so tight. I mean, no inside. I mean, booty. My Nick style. I mean, we're living the life.

Sheldon Pearce (16:49)

Yeah. I think I'm on the same wave with Soraya. I. I love Body to Body as this sort of mixing of past and present as this sort of like authoritative, like statement of purpose, it really does feel like it sets the tone for the first half of what that record is going to be. And it's also like very much about like BTS connecting with its fans about the act of touring as like this cultural ambassadorship, like stepping off the plane somewhere and like representing Korea, which to me is like really sort of telling the story of the album title, but then also like they Don't Know About Us, which is a song about thinking that people are defining who they are from the outside and trying to break free of the molds that. And that song in its sort of like lyrical presentation of you don't know everything that this group is and all that it can reach out to be and then sort of like teasing that out in the way that it sounds and the way that the back half of that record sounds. I think it really sort of like sets the stage for like a wide open BTS future which, like, after you've been away for four years, it's like you feel like you really want to get going. You want to hit the ground running and like open up all the possibilities of what your group can be. So this whole thing feels like a tone setter for me. Like them really, like embracing what BTS could become.

Soraya Mohamed (18:28)

When I was listening to a lot of the songs, I'm hearing them with the added dimension of what it would be like to experience it live. You're sitting there and you feel like you're in a stadium. You feel like you have people around you. It just feels like you're hearing it bigger than your two ears. Like you can feel the space, like you can feel the energy of what it would be like to hear it live. And I've never really experienced that before and I guess I do have the experience of having seen them live. I saw them in LA at SoFi,

Stephen Thompson (19:00)

a sweet little club in LA.

Soraya Mohamed (19:01)

A sweet little club in LA.

Sheldon Pearce (19:04)

Really get to be face to face with your fans.

Soraya Mohamed (19:06)

There we went for two nights. It was one of the most incredible concert experiences I've ever had. And so, you know, like, that just stays with you. And then like I'm feeling that feeling and transferring into this music, which is, I guess I feel very, very lucky and privileged to be able to listen to it that way.

Stephen Thompson (19:26)

I wanted to shout out in terms of highlights from this record, the way the second half not only kind of hints at a, you know, kind of a future, future evolutions of BTS's sound, but acknowledges some of the trends that have taken place since the last time BTS put out a record. Sheldon, earlier in this conversation you alluded to the song Normal and we're kind of talking about its lyrical content. And the first thing that jumped out at me about this song was how it incorporates this kind of vibes based very modern R and B of artists like Dijon. If you just listen to the opening seconds of this song, you can't help but hear it. So you hear obviously that big chunky guitar line. And it's one of those things like I. I had this reaction to the song that I had to kind of the opening tracks of it where it's like, man, they really walk the line between indulging in trends, imitating trends, appropriating trends. There's such a fine line being walked here. But at the same time, it is an unmistakably cool sound where they've clearly been listening and working with people who have been listening to what has been happening in music since the last time BTS put out a record. And then you talk about the closing song here. It's called into the sun, and it kind of starts with this kind of pitch shifting, Bon Iver 808s and heartbreak style vocal distortions.

Soraya Mohamed (21:18)

Baby, you remind me

Stephen Thompson (21:23)

I want someone like you before kind of shifting into this big, grand kind of pop fantasia late on the record. And man, if that song, you know, that song's doing a lot. That song is playing with a lot of different styles and a lot of different sounds, but it is coming out with this just euphoric quality that seems designed to have fans or have army, I should say. Just immediately go back to track one as soon as it's over.

Sheldon Pearce (22:05)

Yeah, it's sort of funny. All of K pop is sort of wrestling with the nowness, like having to try to replicate the sounds of the present moment versus like trying to be your own group, trying to set the tone for what your sound is going to be. I think BTS has been so successful because it has been able to walk that fine line between pulling in sounds from other spheres of music while also being able to like establish themselves as a group with its own distinctive sound. It's funny, I reviewed this record for npr.org and I called the Normal song a Backstreet Boys song with a Dijon song as a hat. It does feel like it's playing with the idea of what pop is now and what it has sounded like in the past, like what it means to be a boy group in like all eras. But it is sort of distinctly a BTS song still. And I think that is the power of this group, its ability to say, yes, we know you've heard something like this before, but you haven't heard us do it yet. And the way we do it, the way we flip it, you are going to hear the BTSness of it in the way that it's performed. And I think that is sort of the story of this record. The story of this comeback is their ability to, after four years, come together as a unit because there was a chance that they all went solo in their moments apart. They all were working out their individual voices. They could have come back and this thing fallen apart. Like there could have been no cohesiveness to the sound, but instead they sound unified. They are bilingual, which is like not a thing that all of the K pop groups are still doing. Some of them are more like plainly English speaking now. But this feels like a huge win, not just for the group, but for its sense of home, its sense of culture, and its sense of purpose.

Stephen Thompson (24:20)

How about you, Saray? Any final thoughts?

Soraya Mohamed (24:22)

I think that this record serves to build the army. It's got more hip hop, it goes a little bit outside of the pop realm. And I have a couple people I'm going to play this for that I think I'm going to convert to BTS fans. I think they did a good job of stretching themselves and doing things, holding onto their BTS ness, but also being a little bit different and taking a little bit of chances outside of what they normally do.

Stephen Thompson (24:50)

Saraya, I've always appreciated that you are NPR Music's number one army recruiter. All right, that brings us to the end of our show. Sheldon Pearce, Soraya Mohammad, thanks so much for being here.

Sheldon Pearce (25:03)

Thanks so much for having me.

Soraya Mohamed (25:04)

Thanks for inviting me.

Stephen Thompson (25:05)

This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathoma and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. And it should be noted that both Hafsa and Jessica are hardcore army. Hello. Come in, Provost. Our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. And if you're not already following the show, do that right now. I'm Stephen Thompson. We will see you all next time.

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