Pop Culture Happy Hour Episode Summary: "Conclave"
Episode Information:
- Title: Pop Culture Happy Hour
- Host/Author: NPR
- Episode Title: Conclave
- Release Date: April 23, 2025
- Description: Pop Culture Happy Hour dives deep into the latest buzz in movies, TV, music, books, and more, featuring insightful discussions with arts journalists and guest pop culture enthusiasts.
Introduction to "Conclave" Timestamp: [00:20 - 02:37]
The episode opens with co-host Stephen Thompson introducing the film "Conclave," an Oscar-nominated movie inspired by Robert Harris's 2016 novel. "Conclave" presents a fictional and dramatized account of the secretive process involved in selecting a new pope following the death of Pope Francis. The film stars Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and Isabella Rossellini, showcasing a blend of political thriller and tense jury drama elements set against the backdrop of the Catholic Church.
Aisha Harris adds that the movie offers strong commentary on the Catholic Church's current state while being available for rent or streaming at home. The hosts emphasize the film's engaging narrative and star-studded cast, setting the stage for an in-depth discussion.
Guest Introductions and Initial Impressions Timestamp: [03:01 - 04:29]
Joining Stephen and Aisha are two guests:
- Waylon Wong: Co-host of NPR's Daily Economics podcast, The Indicator from Planet Money.
- Andrew Lapen: Senior reporter for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency and host of the podcast "Radioactive the Father Coughlin Story."
They commence the discussion by summarizing the plot of "Conclave," highlighting Cardinal Lawrence (played by Ralph Fiennes) orchestrating the conclave of cardinals to elect a new pope. The narrative introduces various candidates, including the potentially treacherous Cardinal Tremblay (John Lithgow) and the openly liberal Cardinal Bellini (Stanley Tucci), among others.
Critical Analysis and Personal Reactions Timestamp: [04:29 - 10:02]
Aisha Harris's Perspective: Aisha shares her initial reluctance to discuss "Conclave," anticipating a conventional Vatican drama. However, she was pleasantly surprised by the film's humor and dark, quirky motifs. She likens the movie to a blend of "12 Angry Men" and a mystery story, praising the performances and the film's ability to balance serious subject matter with levity.
Andrew Lapen's Insights: Andrew compares "Conclave" to "Columbo in the Vatican," appreciating the setting's ability to create a claustrophobic yet engaging atmosphere. He commends the film for exploring the Catholic Church's internal factions and the characters' secret agendas without being overly heavy-handed. Andrew values the movie's smart, tense drama and its seamless integration of humor.
Waylon Wong's Take: Waylon contrasts his enthusiasm for "Conclave" with Aisha's initial skepticism. Being a fan of Vatican dramas like "Angels and Demons," he appreciated the film's elaborate rituals, baroque settings, and campy elements. Waylon enjoyed the performances, especially the depiction of the cardinals' interactions, though he expressed some dissatisfaction with the film's payoff, feeling it was slightly less impactful than the sum of its parts.
Stephen Thompson's Observations: Stephen echoes his appreciation for the film, highlighting its political undertones and the absence of overtly dramatic dialogue reminiscent of Aaron Sorkin. He praises the film for its natural portrayal of political processes within the conclave and the nuanced commentary on the Catholic Church's internal politics.
Detailed Scene and Character Analysis Timestamp: [10:02 - 16:11]
Twists and Humor: Aisha discusses the film's numerous twists, particularly facilitated by the character O'Malley (Brianne F Oburn), who uncovers secrets about each cardinal. These moments inject humor and intentional absurdity, aligning with the film's less-than-subtle storytelling approach.
Stanley Tucci's Character: Tucci's portrayal of Cardinal Bellini is noted for his overt political stance, echoing contemporary political climates. His character frequently emphasizes the need for progress and distance from past doctrines, adding layers to the film's political commentary.
Photocopier and Modern Technology: Waylon and Andrew delve into specific scenes, such as the tension-filled photocopier interaction between Cardinal Lawrence and Isabella Rossellini's character. They draw parallels to memorable cinematic moments, appreciating how the film juxtaposes ancient church rituals with modern technology, like an elderly cardinal using an iPhone amidst seclusion.
Vaping as a Character Trait: A notable moment is Cardinal Tedesco (Sergio Castellito) seen vaping, symbolizing his malevolent nature. Both Aisha and Andrew find this detail amusing and significant, as vaping has become a contemporary shorthand for villainy in cinema.
Women's Roles and Representation: Aisha highlights Isabella Rossellini's impactful but limited role as a nun, noting the film's struggle between addressing the exclusion of women in church decision-making and inadvertently reinforcing that dynamic. Andrew echoes this sentiment, appreciating Rossellini's strong moments while critiquing the underutilization of female characters.
Thematic Exploration and Directorial Choices Timestamp: [16:11 - 20:14]
Faith, Doubt, and Power: Andrew discusses the protagonist Cardinal Lawrence's internal conflict between his lost faith and his concealed ambition to become pope. This dynamic underscores the film's exploration of power's allure within the Catholic Church, even among those who harbor doubts.
Fantastical Elements and Realism: Aisha reflects on the film's fantastical elements, likening it to a subdued fantasy or fan fiction. She appreciates that while the movie takes creative liberties, it captures the essence of the church's internal struggles and the broader tensions between tradition and modernity.
Comparisons to Other Films: Waylon expresses a wish for a deeper exploration of themes like faith and doubt, comparing "Conclave" to "Angels and Demons." He feels that while "Conclave" presents a compelling narrative, it doesn't delve as deeply into its thematic elements as some other Vatican-centric films.
Musical Score and Direction Timestamp: [20:14 - 22:58]
Edward Berger's Direction: Stephen acknowledges director Edward Berger's previous work on the acclaimed "All Quiet on the Western Front," praising his ability to craft a visually stunning and thematically rich film. He contrasts Berger's Oscar-winning score with his own appreciation for the more classical, sweeping score in "Conclave," which he finds enhances the film's tension and atmosphere.
Music's Role in Enhancing Tension: Aisha and Waylon discuss the film's score, noting how the plucking strings and folk horror-esque melodies contribute to an overarching sense of menace. They agree that the music effectively underscores the film's tense and dramatic moments without overwhelming the narrative.
Final Thoughts and Conclusion Timestamp: [22:58 - 24:00]
Overall Impressions: The hosts conclude that "Conclave" is an engaging and enjoyable film that successfully blends political thriller elements with dark humor and poignant commentary on the Catholic Church. While acknowledging some minor shortcomings, such as a less satisfying payoff and limited exploration of certain themes, they collectively appreciate the film's ability to entertain and provoke thought within its concise two-hour runtime.
Support and Wrap-Up: Stephen reminds listeners to support the show by subscribing to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus for a sponsor-free listening experience. The episode closes with thanks to the guests and production team, leaving listeners with a comprehensive understanding of "Conclave" and its place within contemporary pop culture discourse.
Notable Quotes:
- Stephen Thompson: "At its heart, it's kind of a '12 Angry Men' meets a mystery type of story." [05:28]
- Aisha Harris: "This was actually quite enjoyable. It's a great little piece that's surprisingly funnier than I anticipated." [05:28]
- Andrew Lapen: "It felt like 'Columbo in the Vatican'... the conclave is just starting and they're trying to, like, herd everybody inside." [09:49]
- Waylon Wong: "It's so baroque and bonkers and so far divorced from any actual theology. And I love the camp of it." [06:37]
- Aisha Harris: "There's a moment where... Tedesco is seen vaping. If I'm... anyone under the age of 30 usually is, like, vaping." [15:18]
This detailed summary encapsulates the rich and multifaceted discussion from the "Pop Culture Happy Hour" episode on the film "Conclave," providing insights into the hosts' and guests' perspectives, key thematic elements, and notable moments that define the movie's reception and cultural significance.