Forever

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Deep Dive into Netflix’s "Forever"

Release Date: May 14, 2025

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Introduction to "Forever"

In this episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Linda Holmes, Glen Weldon, Stephen Thompson, and Aisha Harris delve into the latest Netflix adaptation, "Forever". This series reimagines Judy Blume’s 1975 novel, presenting a fresh narrative centered on the intense and complex romance between two Black high school students in Los Angeles. The discussion is enriched by insights from guest hosts Ba Parker of NPR's Code Switch podcast and NPR producer Cory Antonio Rose.

First Impressions and Context

Aisha Harris sets the stage by highlighting the show's focus on teenage love amidst the tumult of adolescence:

"[00:20] Aisha Harris: It’s hard being a teenager in love. The hormones are raging, the parents are parenting, and the pressure is on to figure out life after senior year."

Stephen Thompson adds context about the show's creator:

"[00:39] Stephen Thompson: It's the latest from legendary showrunner Mara Brock Akil, who's known for creating beloved shows like Girlfriends and Being Mary Jane..."

Adapting Judy Blume for a Modern Audience

The adaptation of Judy Blume's work brings both nostalgia and contemporary relevance. Cory Antonio Rose shares his perspective as someone who grew up reading Blume:

"[04:33] Cory Antonio Rose: ... in the end, I think the effect was that it ended up creating a world that I wasn't thinking about the pandemic or what might happen. I was really wrapped up in the story and the time that they were living in."

Stephen Thompson reflects on the differences between the book and the show:

"[08:40] Stephen Thompson: ...there are very few similarities between the book and this show. ...this is its own story."

Character Development and Relationships

The chemistry between the lead characters, Kesha and Justin, is a central focus. Ba Parker praises the authenticity of their interactions:

"[06:22] Ba Parker: I thought it was absolutely lovely. ... seeing this kind of conversation between a really tender love story between young black people shouldn't feel like a novelty."

Stephen Thompson commends the portrayal of consent in their relationship:

"[18:53] Stephen Thompson: ...appreciated the modeling of that consent and also how sexy it was as kind of really the only sexy thing that is happening between two clumsy people."

Themes of Black Love and Social Issues

"Forever" distinguishes itself by centering a Black love story without relying on common tropes like drug cartels or violence. Cory Antonio Rose emphasizes the show's refreshing take:

"[14:48] Cory Antonio Rose: ...this is something so rarely seen on TV that you see a community come together behind the pursuit of black love."

Ba Parker adds depth to this discussion by highlighting the emotional complexity of the characters:

"[18:15] Ba Parker: ...an emotionally attuned young black man who's trying to figure out his stuff, and sometimes he may miss the mark."

Parental Dynamics and Generational Tensions

The show intricately weaves the relationships between parents and their children, reflecting generational perspectives. Wood Harris’s portrayal of Justin’s father is particularly noted:

"[09:45] Stephen Thompson: ...performances by the various parents, particularly Wood Harris as Justin's father, is an absolutely electrifying presence on screen."

Aisha Harris critiques the depiction of socioeconomic disparities between the families:

"[20:01] Ba Parker: ...Justin and his family... Keisha and her mom living in this apartment... felt like Karen Pittman's character had a certain blind spot."

Portrayal of Consent and Intimacy

One of the standout aspects of "Forever" is its honest and progressive depiction of consent within teenage relationships. Stephen Thompson highlights a pivotal scene:

"[18:53] Stephen Thompson: ...he is asking her along the way, is this okay? He's checking in with her regularly... really the only sexy thing that is happening between two clumsy people."

Cory Antonio Rose complements this by noting Kesha's agency:

"[19:22] Cory Antonio Rose: ...Kiesha having a lot of agency and Kiesha having a lot of say in the scene."

Criticisms and Structural Issues

Despite its strengths, the hosts identify certain structural flaws. Stephen Thompson finds the pacing frustrating:

"[09:50] Stephen Thompson: ...the first three episodes is this kind of endless series of romantic misunderstandings..."

Aisha Harris concurs, suggesting the series could have benefited from tighter editing:

"[12:18] Aisha Harris: ...if you had just trimmed it down to six episodes instead of eight... a lot of time spent with these characters."

Additionally, the limited development of side characters is a point of contention:

"[12:55] Aisha Harris: ...there weren't really any side characters who get their own storylines."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the balance "Forever" strikes between authentic storytelling and contemporary issues. They acknowledge Mara Brock Akil’s nuanced approach:

"[22:27] Aisha Harris: The way she talked about Keisha sometimes. ...she calls her a heifer."

Closing their discussion, the hosts encourage listeners to engage with the show and share their thoughts:

"[23:05] Aisha Harris: Well, you should definitely let us know what you think about forever. Find [e-mail] PCHH."

Supporting a Deeper Dive

Listeners are reminded of the benefits of subscribing to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus for ad-free episodes and additional content, further supporting NPR’s public radio initiatives.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Aisha Harris [00:20]: "It’s hard being a teenager in love. The hormones are raging, the parents are parenting, and the pressure is on to figure out life after senior year."

• Cory Antonio Rose [04:33]: "I was really wrapped up in the story and the time that they were living in."

• Stephen Thompson [08:40]: "This is its own story."

• Ba Parker [06:22]: "Seeing this kind of conversation between a really tender love story between young black people shouldn't feel like a novelty."

• Stephen Thompson [18:53]: "He is asking her along the way, is this okay? He's checking in with her regularly."

• Cory Antonio Rose [19:22]: "Kiesha having a lot of agency and Kiesha having a lot of say in the scene."

• Aisha Harris [20:01]: "Justin and his family... Keisha and her mom living in this apartment... felt like Karen Pittman's character had a certain blind spot."

Final Thoughts

"Forever" emerges as a thoughtful and layered portrayal of young Black love, navigating the complexities of adolescence, family dynamics, and social expectations. While it excels in character development and thematic depth, some viewers may find its pacing and secondary character arcs wanting. Nevertheless, Mara Brock Akil's signature storytelling shines, offering a heartfelt addition to the contemporary television landscape.

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Thank you for joining us on this episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour. For more discussions and insights, follow us on social media or visit our website.

Transcript

[Advertiser 1]

This message comes from Discover, accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. If you don't think so, maybe it's time to face facts. You're stuck in the past. Based on the February 2024 Nilsen report. [e-mail] Credit Card.

[Aisha Harris]

It'S hard being a teenager in love. The hormones are raging, the parents are parenting, and the pressure is on to figure out life after senior year. Judy Blume tackled this in her 1975 no Forever and now it's been adapted and reconceived of a striking new Netflix series centering on a pair of black high schoolers.

[Stephen Thompson]

It's the latest from legendary showrunner Mara Brock Akil, who's known for creating beloved shows like Girlfriends and Being Mary Jane, and it thoughtfully captures the pangs and joys of young romance in a modern context. I'm Stephen Thompson.

[Aisha Harris]

And I'm Aisha Harris. And today we're talking about Forever on Pop Happy Hour from npr.

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This message comes from Discover. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the last 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, this message comes from NPR sponsor Tools and Weapons, the podcast hosted by Microsoft's Vice Chair and President Brad Smith. Across three exclusive conversations on the company's 50th anniversary, Microsoft's CEOs Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer and Satya Nadella share the stories, dreams and drive that fueled the digital revolution and explain why it may be at its most exciting point yet. For these and more conversations with other thought leaders. Search tools and Weapons Wherever you listen.

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[Aisha Harris]

Joining us today is Ba Parker. She's one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast. Hello, Parker.

[Ba Parker]

Hello.

[Aisha Harris]

Great to have you. Also joining us is NPR producer Cory Antonio Rose. Hello, Cori. Antonio Hey.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Just got my phone privileges back.

[Aisha Harris]

Ooh, congratulations. Congratulations. It's rough out there when you don't have your phone. It's crazy.

[Stephen Thompson]

By the way, thank you all for unblocking me.

[Aisha Harris]

You're welcome. You're welcome.

[Ba Parker]

You put in a great effort for us to unblock you.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, Forever is set in LA and opens on New Year's Eve 2017. At a party, two teens reconnect after not having seen each other for years and begin an intense, messy romance. Lovey Simone plays Kesha, a book smart track star who lives with her single mom in Inglewood and dreams was going to Howard university. Michael Cooper Jr. Plays just he comes from a more privileged background and is a decent enough basketball player, but he's been diagnosed with ADHD and struggles with finding direction. During their junior and senior years, they try to carve out their own identities together as well as apart. And this is a reimagining of a Judy Blume book. So yes, sex will come up during our conversation. Forever is streaming on Netflix and Coriantonio. I'm gonna start with you. As I mentioned before we started taping, you are our youngest person here.

[Ba Parker]

And.

[Aisha Harris]

Since this is a YA teen show in a way, I wanted to hear your perspective first and what you took away from Forever. So give me your first impressions here.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Definitely. I mean, while I am the youngest, I did grow up with some of these older Mara Brock Akil shows like Girlfriends, I think being Mary Jane and so Mara girl, you still got it. You still got it. I am in my mid-20s and even though 2018, when I think about it, it doesn't feel like that long ago, I was not expecting to be transported into this world of 2018 in the way that I was. I thought that even though in the beginning a lot of those references, a lot of the soundtracks, some of the dialogue, it was very heavy handed. 2018, bolded, underlined and, you know, italicized in the end, I think the effect was that it ended up creating a world that I wasn't thinking about the pandemic or what might happen. I was really wrapped up in the story and the time that they were living in. And it took me back in a real nice way. There are moments in the relationship between child and parent that may feel small in your memory or as they happen, that in the show, she finds a really good way to add weight to them and give them narrative tension.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Lovey's a star. She gave me Elizabeth Bennet meets Rita Watson in Sister Act 2.

[Ba Parker]

I know that's right. I know that's right.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

I'm definitely down for more Mara stories like this.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, yes, yes. I also love that you mentioned, you know, it is set between, you know, 2018. 2019. That seems like a very interesting choice because of the way they're talking about, you know, going off to college. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, you don't know what's on the horizon for 2020.

[Stephen Thompson]

Oh, you're so doomed.

[Aisha Harris]

It was something I noticed. I was like, oh, my goodness. Class of 2019.

[Stephen Thompson]

You know what's really great for kids with ADHD? Zoom classes.

[Aisha Harris]

Poor Justin. Poor Justin. But, Parker, I. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[Ba Parker]

Oh, my gosh. I thought it was absolutely lovely. I mean, growing up, I was, you know, like a Dawson's Creek kid. And, like, forever is, like, very how things have evolved in 25 years. Like, direct, frank conversation and, like, evolution, like, an honest evolution of sex between young people. I didn't grow up with reading Judy Blume, as some people did, but I did read the book for a banned book series because, like, it's Judy Blume, but, like, they will try to ban you if you even mention sex. Seeing that kind of, like, evolution and seeing this kind of conversation between, like, a really, like, tender love story between, like, young black people shouldn't feel like a novelty, but. And, like, it kind of bums me out that it has to be, like, someone else's IP for it to become, like, a story that Netflix would pursue. But the fact that we have, like, this tender, like, soft la. Black love story, you know, like, I think of, like, that episode with. Of Insecure with Issa and Lawrence, like, walking through the city, or like, Barry Jenkins, Medicine for Melancholy.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Ba Parker]

And these kind of, like, beautiful stories of just, like, tenderness that I didn't realize I had missed growing up. And it's just, like, really nice to.

[Aisha Harris]

See to that point about it feeling so novel in a way. Again, we've already said this, but Mara Brock Akil is. She is a veteran. She has been here, she's been doing this, and her shows have been repeatedly successful. I guess I have not read the book. This is One of the Judy Blume books that kind of slipped by me when I was a kid.

[Stephen Thompson]

It was carefully hidden from you.

[Aisha Harris]

That's a better way to put it. Yes. It was kept from me, I guess by banned book lists. But it's my understanding that this is kind of just very different. Like, it is the ip.

[Ba Parker]

It's very different.

[Aisha Harris]

There's no way it couldn't be. It's like it's 50 years later since that book has come out now. You know, social media, all of these things. It's a whole different world. Before I get into my thoughts, Stephen, I know you read the book when you were 13.

[Stephen Thompson]

You said, yeah, that's 13 or 14, something like that.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay, so how did this strike you as an adaptation of the book?

[Stephen Thompson]

Well, I think if you look at it like an adaptation of the 1975 novel, you're not going to get what you think you're going to get. And you're going to spend a lot of this show being distracted by that. I definitely was. I was expecting far more echoes of the novel than there are. I mean, there are very, very few similarities between the book and this show. There's. In both the book and the show, he names his genitalia Ralph. There are a couple of little nods here and there in character names, but otherwise there's. Other than the fact that it's kind of this teen coming of age story, there's virtually nothing in common between the two. As such, I think it's important to think about this show as what it is, where the Judy Blume novel is kind of a Trojan horse, presumably to get Netflix to pick up this show and to attract audiences to this show. But this is its own story. As such, I agree with everything Parker said and everything Cory Antonio said about, like, this is an extremely gifted storyteller at work here. These two leads have really nice chemistry. We haven't gotten into the parents yet, but the performances by the various parents, particularly Wood Harris as Justin's father, the best, is an absolutely electrifying presence on screen. Every time he shows up, you look up. That said, I think there are some structural issues with this show that I found frustrating. I found the wind up way too slow. I thought the first three episodes is this kind of endless series of romantic misunderstandings and, like, very foolish teenage decisions to block the person you're mad at from your phone.

[Ba Parker]

That's called being a teenager, Steven.

[Stephen Thompson]

I know, my God. But Parker, they go back to that. Well, over and over and over again. And you really get this. Like, get to the romance.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Stephen Thompson]

And then, like, late in the series, not giving anything really away here. There's a lot of stuff that is reduced to this montage of Instagram photos where you're like, this is where all the romance is happening. Show me that I don't need their endless fighting, and they're endless breaking up and blocking each other. So I found kind of the shape of this show a little mystifying, even as I was admiring all these different components of it, from the chemistry of the leads to the way these parents are presented, to the music on the soundtrack, which is just consistently gorgeous.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Took me back in the worst way.

[Ba Parker]

Have you been re listening to Moon river for, like, the past week? Cause I have.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

It was normal girl. I was like, wait, we're really back?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. No, Stephen, I kind of have the same issues as you did. For me, this was an experience of, like, this is far too real. I love how realistic pretty much everything about this feels, from the way that Justin is sort of shaped and formed. And it's just like this very kind of, oh, my gosh. I've known so many boys, young men like this, who are just so impulsive and, like, get really fixated on one person, one thing that they are obsessed with, and then that takes precedence over everything. And I love the way that's kind of unfolded through the relationship that he has with Keisha. But it did feel as though that realness of, okay, we're back together, and then two days later, we're broken up and we're blocking, and then there's, like, sort of not comedy of errors, but, like, just people talking at each other or missing each other for various things.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Misconnections.

[Aisha Harris]

Misconnections. Exactly. Like, it wasn't until the latter half of this season, like, the last four episodes, where it really started to form for me. And I think maybe if you had just trimmed it down to six episodes instead of eight. Six at most, because each episode is also between 40 and almost an hour long, generally speaking. So it's like, this is a lot of time and a lot of time spent with these characters. The other thing is that, for me, it was shocking to me that there weren't really any side characters who get their own.

[Stephen Thompson]

The friends really have one characteristic each.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

They're supportive, and that's their characteristic.

[Aisha Harris]

Right. That's all you really need. I don't know. At least on, like, Dawson's Creek or, like, any sort of teen show, you're following more than two characters, like, they have their own storylines to some Extent. And Justin and Keisha are usually in one or the other scenes. It's rarely anyone else, you know, except for the parents. Sometimes I felt if we were going to go that long, we should have a little bit more interaction with other characters on their own journeys. But, I mean, yes, we've talked about Wood Harris, who plays Eric, Justin's dad. So many great moments. Karen Pittman as Dawn, his mother.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Can we talk about it?

[Aisha Harris]

Let's talk about it.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

It's interesting because you're pointing out, like, the main thing is, like, Justin and Keisha. Justin and Keisha. But I got this beautiful side story about the relationship between Justin and Dawn.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Mother and firstborn son.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, come in.

[Ba Parker]

All my friends are dead.

[Advertiser 1]

Justin.

[Ba Parker]

Hey. Hey. Can you turn that off, please?

[Cory Antonio Rose]

It's that sly little. Can you turn that off? It says so much about her philosophy about the kind of house that she wants to run. She found ways to find things in the modern experience that I remember going through with my own mother and make it feel like, oh, this is actually a milestone in these two people's relationship.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. Yes. One of my favorite things about her is the way that she's, like, just really excited at first that Keisha is black.

[Ba Parker]

And that's all you had to say, Keisha from jtd.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. Yes.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

That's the girl.

[Ba Parker]

That's the girl.

[Stephen Thompson]

And then, like, they find ways for Justin to exploit her desire for him to date someone black.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. Yes.

[Ba Parker]

Here you go.

[Aisha Harris]

Look. Can't say that I haven't been there. Yes.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

It is real. It is so real, and it's something so rarely seen on TV that you see a community come together behind the pursuit of black love. And it's not wrapped up in some huge drug cartel fantasy.

[Aisha Harris]

Right, Exactly. Yeah.

[Ba Parker]

A part of the show has this kind of narrative tension of like, something bad is gonna loom, is gonna happen.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Yes.

[Ba Parker]

And then it doesn't. It's like Karen Pittman's character is like, you know, you're a black boy and you're driving down the street, the street, and you're going to, like, need to be careful. All these talks, and then the cops come behind him and. But then nothing happens.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Ba Parker]

And I was like, oh, thank God. And I was like, oh, there's, like, this sex tape situation.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Ba Parker]

But outside of, like, the trauma, past tense, it wasn't going to impact her future.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Ba Parker]

There was, like, all these kind of not red herrings, but, like, these things that were being dropped. And, like, there's, like, a fear, like a weariness that, like, oh, this is going to be that show. And it.

[Stephen Thompson]

I'm so glad, Parker, that you brought that up, because it was really a reminder to me watching this show, like, wow, I've seen a really disproportionately high percentage of TV shows about black people involve police violence.

[Ba Parker]

Yeah.

[Stephen Thompson]

That the way this show kind of plays around with that threat in the background made me so incredibly queasy.

[Ba Parker]

Kind of exploit that. Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of its own genre at this point. I think the way this show handles it is really smart because that fear that Don, his mother, has is tied to her entire relationship with Justin. It's not just that she's, like, fearful of him as a young black man going out to drive once he gets a car, driving by himself. She's also fearful of his future. She's pressuring him to apply to Northwestern.

[Ba Parker]

She was giving me a tummy ache.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

She's very stressful. And it's like, she's so stressful. They do kind of pit her and Eric, his dad, kind of against. He's. He's like the chill. Like, he's having very frank conversations about sex. He's encouraging him, like, here's money to go to CVS and get yourself some condoms. Like, I want to make sure you know what you're doing and you don't bring any babies around here. And I love that aspect of it. You mentioned the sex video, Parker. And I do want to, like, clarify for those who may not have watched the show, just to kind of set that up. That involves Keisha. We learned about it in the first episode, and then it kind of looms over the entire series. She, with a previous boyfriend, made a video, and the boyfriend, the ex, sent it out, and everyone around school heard about it. And that also looms over. But first of all, it's a very modern thing that Judy Blume never would have even thought about in 1975. That tension is carried into her relationship with Shelley, her mom, who's played by Zosia Rockmore, who love her. But I was kind of surprised. I was like, you're already playing the mom to a teenager. I know. I mean, granted, they do say she had her young. So sure, Keisha doesn't want to tell her mother. And Justin is insisting. And I loved that because it was such a progressive way. Justin, for all of his faults, he is still very, if not self aware. He's aware of her and how she should respond. And he keeps telling her, like, you need to tell your mom, like, you're carrying this weight, and it's hurting you. And I loved that aspect of it.

[Ba Parker]

I really love that they gave. I don't know, for all of the. I think the current discussions about, like, the male loneliness epidemic and all these kind of things where you have, like, this emotionally attuned young black man who's, like, trying to figure out his stuff, and sometimes he may miss the mark, and you can see him, like, trying to send a text that's, like, really heartfelt, and he's like. Then gives monosyllabic text instead, which is such a teenage boy thing. And he is figuring things out. And I thought that was really smart.

[Stephen Thompson]

I also appreciated that they had. That character had clearly received some sort of training in negotiating consent.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Stephen Thompson]

There is an early sex scene between them in which, as clumsy as he is and as inexperienced as he is, he is, like, asking her along the way, is this okay? He's checking in with her regularly. And first of all, just. I really appreciated the modeling of that consent and also how sexy it was as kind of really the only sexy thing that is happening between two clumsy people, I found really, really sweet, and I was delighted to see that on screen.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

The moments of intimacy in the show, I think, leaned a lot towards Kiesha having a lot of agency and Kiesha having a lot of say in the scene, which I think contrasts very well with, like, the whole situation and scenario with the sex tape and how it unfolded.

[Aisha Harris]

Mm.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

And so it was a nice arc to see her gain her confidence and sort of find her. Both of them find their groove together.

[Aisha Harris]

In the Vineyard, that Martha's Vineyard section. I've gone there once in my life. I was not one of those people who ever. Who does that every year, but I was just like, oh, this is another way that we get some blackness in the show. The Oak Bluffs. Yeah.

[Ba Parker]

Okay. I will say I did feel like there may have been a blind spot in, like, class discussion, in just, like, the fact that, you know, Justin and his family. Like, we see how they're living in this very nice house with a pool. They go into Martha's Vineyard.

[Stephen Thompson]

I want their pool.

[Ba Parker]

Right. Oh, my gosh. And then you have Keisha and her mom living in this apartment, and the mom can't, trying to make ends meet. Felt like Karen Pittman's character had a certain blind spot, like, an elitistness to her that she couldn't really fully empathize. Like, what Keisha and her family's situation was. I felt, like, a frustration and, like, why is she not getting that the way that she parents is different than this other parent. And why isn't she trying to figure that out?

[Cory Antonio Rose]

It's especially frustrating given that this money, it's not like the money has been in their family for generations and generations.

[Ba Parker]

I said they new money.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Thank you. I didn't want to be rude, but it is new money.

[Aisha Harris]

This is still very new. And. And, you know, his dad is a chef. He's an accomplished chef. I can see that frustration, Parker. I also think somehow that felt real. I don't know if the show itself could have done more to sort of probe those questions, but I do think that tension is sort of borne out in, like, especially the conversations that are had about trying to go to someplace like Northwestern versus going to an hbcu.

[Ba Parker]

Like, it's always Howard.

[Aisha Harris]

How is it always Howard?

[Ba Parker]

There are other HBCUs.

[Aisha Harris]

It's the only one anyone knows. Like, he's not black. I mean, yeah. I mean, you would even think, like, Morehouse would come up more often, but whatever. Or Spellman. But that tension between the haves and the have less was really interesting to see. There is a lovely moment between Don and Shelley, the two moms, like, where, you know, they are talking. We at least get a glimmer of dawn kind of. Of giving of herself and being like, I'm here for you in an emotional way, if not, like, fully understanding why their decisions might be different. Like, what they choose might be different.

[Stephen Thompson]

And it's establishing something really important to have come up in a teen show like this, which is that the parents all have inner lives as well, and the parents are trying to navigate this stuff just as clumsily as their kids in a lot of ways. And I did think that was a beautiful scene. I really enjoyed pretty much any time a parent was talking to another parent, even if I found one of the parents, dawn, incredibly exasperating.

[Aisha Harris]

The way she talked about Keisha sometimes. Oh, my goodness. At one point, she calls her a heifer.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

That's a heifer.

[Ba Parker]

That is a very honest mom talk. I'm not gonna lie. I've heard my mom say that still.

[Aisha Harris]

I was like, oh, my goodness, she's getting real.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

I think. But that's. I think Mara's gift is finding those little things, those little accent marks that don't really strike you as important in the moment. But then you hear it in a show, you hear it in this context with these characters, and you're like, oh, wow. I really do miss when somebody calls somebody a hefa or I know what that means. I know what that feels. I know the weight that carries.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, you should definitely let us know what you think about forever. Find [e-mail] PCHH that brings us to the end of our show. B.A. parker, Cory, Antonio Rose and Steven Taylor Thompson, thanks so much for being here.

[Stephen Thompson]

Thank you.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Thank you for having us.

[Ba Parker]

Thank you.

[Aisha Harris]

And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free.

[Cory Antonio Rose]

Woohoo.

[Aisha Harris]

So please go find out more at plus.NPR.org happyar or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathoma and Liz Metzger and edited by Jessica Reedy and Mike Katzen. Hello. Kamin provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all next time.

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