Hamnet

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour — "Hamnet" (Dec 1, 2025)

Podcast: Pop Culture Happy Hour (NPR)
Host(s): Stephen Thompson, Aisha Harris
Guest: Bob Mondello
Episode Theme: Panel discussion and review of new film "Hamnet," adapted from Maggie O’Farrell's novel, exploring love, grief, and artistry in the shadow of Shakespeare's family tragedy.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into "Hamnet," the new film adaptation of Maggie O’Farrell’s acclaimed novel. The panel explores the emotional depth, performances, and artistic choices of director Chloe Zhao, unpacking the film’s heartbreak, historical context, and the creative reinterpretation of William Shakespeare's family life. The responses range from deeply moved to unimpressed, sparking thoughtful discussion about subjectivity in experiencing art.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Setup: "Hamnet" as a Work of Grief and Artistry

• Plot Focus: The film follows Agnes (more commonly known as Anne Hathaway), played by Jessie Buckley, her marriage to William Shakespeare (Paul Mescal), their domestic life, and devastation after the loss of their son, Hamnet. Shakespeare’s creative process and the genesis of "Hamlet" are woven into the narrative.
• Adaptation Notes: The film is based on O’Farrell’s novel, screenplay by O’Farrell and director Chloe Zhao.

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2. Initial Reactions: Polarized Emotional Impact

• Bob Mondello’s Deep Reaction ([05:21]):

  “I fell apart. I really fell apart… I was sobbing so hard that the woman sitting next to me grabbed my arm to see if I was okay. I just lost it. And I acknowledged that I was being manipulated… it just worked for me. This is a movie that is designed for me.”

  • Bob relates his response to personal grief, finding the film’s exploration of loss effective and moving.
• Aisha Harris’ Contrasting Coldness ([06:33]):

  “I left this feeling cold. I left this feeling unmoved… everyone in my theater… you could hear the sobs… and there is me, the cold, icy hearted, not into this person.”

  • Aisha struggles to connect emotionally, despite the film’s intention and broad audience resonance.
• Stephen Thompson’s Middle Ground ([07:53]):

  “I cried five times… I really liked this film, the performances at its center… Jessie Buckley… is just transcendent.”

  • Stephen acknowledges both the manipulative craft and his own susceptibility, especially as a parent.

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3. The Performances: Jessie Buckley vs. Paul Mescal

• Paul Mescal’s Acting Debated ([07:04 & 10:06]):
  • Aisha:

    “One of my biggest issues with this film is Paul Mescal's performance… he just kind of sappy and soggy…”

  • Bob:

    “He needs to be for the plot to work… this is about Jessie Buckley's character not recognizing that her husband is also grieving…”

  • The panel discusses whether Mescal’s subdued presence is a flaw or a deliberate, necessary aspect of the story.
• Jessie Buckley Praised ([08:19]):
  • Stephen:

    “Jessie Buckley… is just transcendent. I think she's a magnificent actor. She gets a lot to chew on here.”

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4. Zhao’s Direction and "Manipulation"

• Is it Manipulative, and Does That Work? ([09:25 & 12:56]):
  • Aisha:

    “Sometimes you see the strings more, and I think here you see the strings so much… it also just felt like a very familiar story to me…”

  • Bob:

    “Jessie Buckley, her character is so consumed by what she's feeling… to have two people on screen who are doing that would drive you nuts. I think it's by design. The thing that is bothering you about it is by design.”

  • Discussion revolves around whether Zhao’s overt emotional engineering undermines or serves the narrative.

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5. Historical Context, Setting, and Craft

• Evocation of 17th Century Life ([17:09 & 17:24]):
  • Stephen:

    “Any movie that’s set... around 1600... that really shows you how grubby and miserable life must have been.”

  • Aisha:

    “Most of these movies… make me realize I’m so lucky to have been born in these times…”

  • The panel admires the film’s attention to historical detail, set design, and immersive atmosphere.
• Subtle Literary Touches ([15:19]):
  • Bob:

    “There’s a crawl at the beginning… that Hamnet and Hamlet are the same name…”

  • The film’s nuanced treatment of names and language, and how this plays with expectations about biopics about Shakespeare.

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6. Thematic Parallels and Broader Context

• Art as a Response to Grief ([09:10]):
  • Stephen:

    “I was sort of fascinated by the way this film is in conversation with another awards season favorite, Sentimental Value… using art as a means of escape.”

  • The conversation connects "Hamnet" to other contemporary works about translating personal pain into artistic expression.
• Comparisons to Zhao’s Previous Films ([13:13]):
  • Aisha:

    “Songs My Brothers Taught Me is just way better at feeling… just something more naturalistic about it…”

  • Both Aisha and Bob reference how Zhao’s style translates across different projects, with mixed results.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bob Mondello’s Vulnerability ([05:21]):

  “I was sobbing so hard that the woman sitting next to me grabbed my arm to see if I was okay.”

• Aisha Harris’ Honesty ([06:33]):

  “There were a whole bunch of Bob Mondellos there… and there is me, the cold, icy hearted, not into this person.”

• Stephen’s ‘Crying Scorecard’ ([07:53]):

  “I cried five times.”

• Theatricality & History ([15:25]):

  “They pronounce Agnes as Agnes. So Agnes and Anne are also very close. They’re making it clear that certain things worked differently when pronunciation was not set in stone…” (Bob Mondello)

• Daily Life Realism ([17:24]):

  “I did find myself constantly admiring the craft… the construction of the houses… making you not want to live there.” (Stephen Thompson)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [04:21] — Film summary & setup by Stephen; Bob Mondello’s background and initial reaction
• [05:21] — Bob Mondello’s emotional response and theater critic’s lens
• [06:33] — Aisha Harris describes her lack of reaction
• [07:53] — Stephen Thompson’s balanced response, acting discussion begins
• [10:06] — Aisha’s critique of Paul Mescal’s performance
• [11:04] — Bob defends Mescal’s characterization as intentional
• [13:13] — Aisha compares Zhao’s approach to her prior films
• [15:19] — Discussion of literary and historical accuracy
• [17:09] — Observations on historical atmosphere and set design
• [18:08] — Closing thoughts, encouragement for audience feedback

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Conclusion

The PCHH team delivers a lively, contrasting review of "Hamnet." Bob Mondello finds it staggeringly moving, Stephen Thompson admires its artistry while maintaining emotional restraint, and Aisha Harris is left mildly disappointed, especially by Paul Mescal’s performance and familiar narrative beats. The episode is rich in wit, candor, and deep dives into adaptation, performance, and the subjective power of storytelling, ultimately providing listeners a vivid sense of what to expect from "Hamnet"—and from themselves as viewers.

Transcript

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[Linda Holmes]

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[Stephen Thompson]

Hamnet tells the story of a young English couple played by Jesse Buckley and Paul Mescal. They meet, fall in love, have children and suffer an unspeakable tragedy. And then one of them writes Hamlet.

[Aisha Harris]

It runs from William Shakespeare first meeting his wife to an early production of Hamlet, and along the way, it does everything it can to make you cry a whole lot. I'm Aisha Harris.

[Stephen Thompson]

And I'm Stephen Thompson. Today we are talking about Hamnet on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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[Stephen Thompson]

Film critic Bob Mondello. Hey Bob.

[Bob Mondello]

Hey, good to be here.

[Stephen Thompson]

It is a pleasure to have you. So in the opening scenes of Hamnet, we meet a witchy young free spirit named Agnes, played by Jesse Buckley. Anas catches the eye of a young tutor named Will. He's played by Paul Mescal. Their story is a fictionalized account of the lives of William Shakespeare and his wife, who's more commonly known as Anne in other accounts of her life. But we'll go with Anas here. Anas and Will have three children together and the Will is a doting father. He's increasingly absent from the family's day to day lives as he begins his career writing and producing plays in London. When their only son, Hamnet, played by Jacoby Jupe, dies at the age of 11, it creates a rift in their marriage and inspires Will to write one of his greatest works. Hamnet is Based on Maggie O' Farrell's 2020 novel of the same name. And the film was written by o' Farrell and director Chloe Zhao, who previously won an Oscar for directing Nomadland. It's in theaters now. Bob Mondello, I'm gonna start with you. What did you think of Hamnet?

[Bob Mondello]

I fell apart. I really fell apart. I saw it at the Middleburg Film Festival a few after NPR's founding mother, Susan Stamberg, died. And I was primed for a movie about grief. And this movie is very definitely about grief. And I was, you know, I was doing fine for a long time. And we got to the end scene and I thought I was holding it back. I thought I was holding it in, but I was sobbing so hard that the woman sitting next to me grabbed my arm to see if I was okay. I just lost it. And I acknowledged that I was being manipulated. I mean, the moment where I lost it, I thought, oh, that is, like, really over the top. It didn't change the fact that it just worked for me. This is a movie that is designed for me in a way. I'm a theater critic and fan from way back. I have seen 37 or 38 hamlets at this point. I know this basically back to front. And so finding a new way into it for me was kind of fascinating. So, yeah, I'm with it 107%.

[Stephen Thompson]

All right. How about you, Aisha?

[Aisha Harris]

Well, I saw this at the Toronto International Film Festival a couple months ago. And afterwards, I had to check my pulse to make sure I was still alive, because I left this feeling cold. I left this feeling unmoved. And this is maybe a me problem, because everyone in my theater, this was a packed theater. You could hear the sobs, you could hear the sniffling. It was like just a sea wave of sniffles and just uncontrollable crying.

[Bob Mondello]

There were a whole bunch of Bob Mondellos there.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, a whole bunch of Bob Mondellos in the audience. And there is me, the cold, icy hearted, not into this person. You know, we can talk a little bit about this, but I think one of my biggest issues with this film is Paul Mescal's performance. And I've kind of had this weird relationship with him where I can't quite figure out if he's as good as everyone else seems to think he is or if he's just kind of finding himself as an actor. He's still relatively young and he's still relatively new to film acting. So, Stephen, I'm so curious to hear how this hits you, because as we like to tease you about and as you like to tease yourself about, you are. You are the type of person who is primed for this. You are a dad. You cry at a lot of things. Tell me, why was I so, so cold?

[Stephen Thompson]

Well, I was laughing with a colle shortly before heading into this movie. Like, will my legendary stoicism be a match for the works of Checks notes. Chloe Zhao, Paul Mezkol, Jesse Buckley with music by Max Richter, who has made some of the most tear jerking music I've experienced in my life. And the answer is, I guess I come down somewhere in between you two. I counted. I cried five times.

[Aisha Harris]

Wow.

[Stephen Thompson]

For a film with this subject matter, For a film that is working this hard to make audiences feel and cry, I felt like for me, that was relatively restrained. I really liked this film, the performances at its center. I think Paul Mezkal is fine, but I think Jessie Buckley, as she basically always has been in everything I've seen her in, is just transcendent. I think she's a magnificent actor. She gets a lot to chew on here. You know, I'm not necessarily a deep Shakespeare guy. I've read a couple of plays, I've seen a few adaptations. I've not seen Hamlet 38 or 39 times. I still found myself moved by the parallels between the story and the work and was sort of fascinated by the way this film is in conversation with another awards season favorite, Sentimental Value.

[Bob Mondello]

Oh, interesting.

[Stephen Thompson]

Which is another recent film about kind of using art as a means of escape. I found that really interesting in general. I sat down expecting to cry and I cried.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Bob Mondello]

That pause said world.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, no, no, no. Let me explain myself further. One of my biggest issues is that I often find, okay, this is totally a me thing when it comes to films and projects that are set in this era of history. Like, it is a much bigger hurdle for me to latch onto what is happening here. And I think, yes, Chloe Zhao, she is very good at manipulating. And manipulating is not necessarily a bad thing. I think a director, that is what they do. Sometimes you see the strings more, and I think here you see the strings so much. And it also just felt like a very familiar story to me in a way that didn't transcend how kind of artsy, fartsy it felt for me.

[Bob Mondello]

Oh, man.

[NPR Announcer]

Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. It's about the loss of a child. And that is a big part of it. And that is a big part of the climactic ending of this film. But it is also, like, at its heart, a story about two people who fall in love. But then the husband goes away, and now it's about the mother who has to bear all of the tragedy and bear all. And I'm like, I've seen this before. Nicole Kidman has done this type of movie 800,000 times. And it may not be better than Hamnet when I see it, but I do find it more interesting. And Paul Mezkal, for me, with the exception of something like all of Us Strangers or After Son, where, yes, he's kind of the lead, but he takes the back. I think that usually when I see him, he's not the best part of that movie. And for me, he's a bigger role in this movie. He is kind of a co lead with Jesse Buckley. And that time we spend with him, he just doesn't. He just kind of sappy and soggy and.

[Bob Mondello]

Well, and now, in fairness, which he needs to be for the plot to work. I mean, this is about Jessie Buckley's character not recognizing that her husband is also grieving and she is grieving and her grief is so all consuming that she actually thinks that he's off writing a comedy in London, that he's simply gotten past this. And she doesn't realize that he is working through all of these things himself because he isn't good at expressing himself, which is a concept for Shakespeare. Of course, you need him to not be forthright, to not be out there, unless he's on stage, which he is at one point, or playing with the kids or something like that. You need him to sort of to step back a little bit. And Jessie Buckley, her character is so consumed by what she's feeling, that to have two people on screen who are doing that would drive you nuts. It would be just too much. I think it's by design. The thing that is bothering you about it is by design.

[Stephen Thompson]

Yeah. And I also don't know that Paul Mezkal is. He's billed kind of as a co lead with Jessie Buckley, in part because of name recognition, but it is a bigger part for her than it is for him. He disappears again, by design, for long stretches of the story because he's gone off to London to do whatever it is that William Shakespeare does. And the film, I think, centers her in ways that I kind of appreciated. In having watched so many historical epics focused on great men, I found myself kind of appreciating the fact that this is about another facet of their lives that is not necessarily overloaded with scenes of him putting quill to paper and writing a masterpiece. It doesn't seem as interested in the process of writing a masterpiece, as so many historical epics about art tend to be.

[Aisha Harris]

I do appreciate that aspect of it. Yes, it's about the art, but it's how you deal with that outside of the art as well. I guess where I just keep coming back to is, you know, I rewatched Zhao's feature debut, Songs My Brothers Taught Me, and it's a fictional story using sort of mostly amateur actors set on the Pine Ridge reservation. And it centers on indigenous characters in a modern day setting. And it has a lot of similar similarities. I mean, all of her films, except maybe Eternals, which I haven't seen, I have no idea what happens in that movie, but. But whatever. But like all of her films sort of have that sense of loss and grief and how you deal with that. And I think it's done to varying effect. And for me, I just think that a movie like Songs My Brothers Taught Me is just way better at feeling. You feel the sort of manipulations happening, but there's just something more naturalistic about it. And maybe it is because in the case of Will here in this film, he is theatrical. I just kept seeing the scenes and feeling it and just being like, this is not working for me. I'm not connecting with this. I feel bad that this is happening to them, but I felt as though everything just was washing over me. And this is where it just gets hard to critique something where I just like really didn't like it and it really moved other people, but I just.

[Bob Mondello]

Couldn'T connect with it after seeing it. I wanted to make sure, as I say, my initial reaction was colored by the fact that a friend, Susan Stamberg, had just d. And I wanted to make sure that when I saw it a second time, it was still effective. And I thought it was, although my husband didn't think it was as effective as I did. He thought it was a good movie, but he wasn't sort of blown away by it. I confess, I just was awash. And I don't do that very often. I'm not Stephen. I. You know, I have all these devices to separate myself from the event. And there was something about this. And I look, I'm looking at this and here's Shakespeare and he's sitting there. At one point, there's a scene where he's. White light from yonder window breaks and he's making sure that the meter is right for iambic pentameter. And I thought, well, that's a nice touch. I actually talked to a critic who went to this film. And didn't realize until somebody said the name William Shakespeare that this was about him.

[Stephen Thompson]

Right.

[Bob Mondello]

Had somehow just missed.

[Stephen Thompson]

I could see that there's a crawl at the beginning.

[Bob Mondello]

Well, it says that Hamnet and Hamlet are the same name. Sort of like Jonathan and John are today.

[Stephen Thompson]

Sure.

[Aisha Harris]

Right.

[Bob Mondello]

They pronounce Agnes as Agnes. So Agnes and Anne are also very close. They're making it clear that certain things worked differently when pronunciation was not set in stone the way that we do today. I found the theatrical touches to it kind of fascinating on their own. And then there's this coup de theatre at the end that is, you know, where they sort of drag you into feeling in the way that you feel in a theater. And that's. As a theater nut. I love that. I mean, it's a thing that film often doesn't do for me. And so I was moved. What can I say?

[Aisha Harris]

It's funny because I. The History of Sound, another film starring Paul Mescal, which came out this year, 2025, that is just as sort of manipulative and many times kind of overly sentimental in ways that you would think I would find, like, be resistant to. But that one I just was drawn to more, I think, in part just because there were elements about it. This is, you know, it's set in the early 20th century and Paul Mescal has a, like, sort of romantic relationship with Josh o'. Connor. But then it's also about, like, documenting sound in that era. And it's just fascinating to me. And it ends in a very cliche way. And yet I was drawn to it in a way that I just couldn't get drawn to. This here.

[Bob Mondello]

I love that response because that is exactly what I'm doing to Hamnet. I am drawn to it for the surrounding stuff, not necessarily for the plot that's being told to me. And it's interesting I didn't get clobbered by History of Sound in the same way. But I get what you're saying. Absolutely. It has a lovely sort of theatrical moment at the very end, which is.

[Stephen Thompson]

Really something I just appreciate. Any movie that's set, say, around 1600 or whatever, that. That really shows you how grubby and miserable life must have been.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, it does do a pretty good job of that. Yeah.

[Stephen Thompson]

I did find myself constantly admiring the craft that went into this. The construction of the houses, the kind of irregular shapes of the housing. It feels. I'm sure there are anachronisms somewhere. I'm sitting here, like, when was this invented? When was this invented? I would occasionally get distracted by that. But I do think it does a beautiful job of situating you in that era and making you not want to live there.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, most of these movies, again, make me realize I'm so lucky to have been born in these times for many reasons, but especially because, oh man, it does look miserable.

[Stephen Thompson]

You just see them wishing for medicine.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, vaccines, all of the things.

[Stephen Thompson]

All right, well, we want to know what you think about Hamnet. Find out us on [e-mail] PCHH and on [e-mail] NPRpopculture. We'll have a link in our episode description that brings us to the end of our show. Bob Mondello, Aisha Harris, thanks so much for being here and disagreeing so profusely.

[Bob Mondello]

Thank you for having me.

[Aisha Harris]

Thanks for helping me work through my resentment of this movie.

[Stephen Thompson]

This episode was produced by Liz Metz, Carly Rubin and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Stephen Thompson and we will see you all next time.

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