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- [00:00]
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Aisha Harris
Rose Byrne has spun comedic gold for years, from bridesmaids to neighbors to platonic. But in the new movie if I had Legs, I'd kick you, she shows her dramatic chops and she's fantastic. She plays a therapist shouldering all the responsibility of caring for her ill daughter while her emotionally absent husband is away for work. And that's only the beginning. Other disastrous life events begin to accumulate and wear her down. Yes, it's extremely stressful, but it's also a highly absorbing melodrama. I'm Aisha Harris. And today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're talking about if I had legs, I'd kick you.
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Robin Hilton
It's Robin Hilton from All Songs Considered. Finding a new favorite song or artist is such a deep, specific joy. And it's all the more special to find that joy on public media where people, not algorithms, invite you in. NPR is your personal portal to music discovery. Keep the door open with a donation this Public Radio music day. Visit donate.NPR.org and thank you.
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Aisha Harris
I'm Ira Glass. On this American Life. We tell real life stories, really good ones.
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Walter Chow
My mother said, I'm sorry that you weren't here because Father Sager was here visiting and he found a very nice orphanage for you. And I said, but I'm not an orphan, Ma.
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Aisha Harris
Surprising stories in your podcast Feed this American Life. Joining me today is Walter Chow. He's a writer, critic and film instructor at the University of Colorado. Hello, Walter. Welcome back.
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Walter Chow
Hi. Thanks. I'm so happy to be here.
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Aisha Harris
Great to have you. Also with us is entertainment journalist Christina Escobar. She's the co founder and editor in chief of Latina Media, Punto Co. Welcome back to you too, Christina. It's great to have you.
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Christina Escobar
Thanks. I'm happy to be here.
- [02:40]
Aisha Harris
Well, if I had legs, I'd Kick you stars Rose Byrne as Linda. Her young daughter is extremely sick, needs a feeding tube, constant monitoring, and regular treatment at a children's hospital. One day, the ceiling in her apartment caves in, forcing Linda and her daughter to move into a motel while the problem is fixed. Except, as these things often do, it takes much longer than she anticipates. Linda's a therapist, and at work her patients have their own issues and sometimes they don't grasp the meaning of boundaries. And her relationship with her own therapist co worker, who's played by Conan o', Brien, weirdly, is messy. To add to all the stressors, Linda's husband Charles is away for work, only reachable by phone, and is, to put it lightly, a jerk. Linda's got no support system, and so she begins to crash out hard. If I had legs, I'd kick you was written and directed by Mary Bronstein. It's in theaters now. Walter, I'm gonna start with you. How did you react to this? As I've already noted, very stressful to watch movie.
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Walter Chow
I really loved this unpleasant movie. Yeah, I really kind of threw both arms around a thing that doesn't wanna be hugged. It's really prickly. I found it to be the most stressful movie I've seen all year, I think, you know, including that one with a little kid that bites a knife.
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Aisha Harris
Oh, bring her back.
- [03:59]
Walter Chow
Bring her back. Thank you. I found it to be so difficult in some places to watch, and yet I loved it. I think I finally maybe understood why people go cave diving or mountain climbing. You know, it's like, it must be horrible while it's happening. And then I felt the sense of reality exhilaration afterwards. And I think I need to come to terms with a certain part of my personality that I had never come to terms with before. But there's something about this movie that I really felt like was bracing. I found it to be exciting and courageous about showing ugly characters, having heroes that you can't really root for. I think. Yeah. You know, in a very strange way, I felt seen at this point in my life by it. Maybe that speaks to self loathing that I'm confessing to, but there's something about this that really excited me as a viewer, even as I acknowledge it's really not for everyone.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah. Comparing it to some sort of extreme sport or extreme adventure seems. Feels very, very accurate. That's a great descriptor. Christina, how are we feeling about this?
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Christina Escobar
I would not say I loved it. I thought it was artfully done. Roseburn is amazing. The Choices in cinematography and shots were clearly very artistic and telling us something about this difficult woman who's, I would say, maybe going through a psychotic break and all of the things that she's experiencing, her lack of support system and how the stressors add up. It was a very stressful film. But as a mom with actually a daughter the same age as the fictional one here, I did not feel seen by this film in a way that I have by other movies that delve into some of the trials and tribulations of motherhood. Because this is not about the trials and tribulations of motherhood. This is about, like, an extreme trauma this woman is experiencing that cumulates over the course of the film. And I want to say, while there is dark, funny humor, there's not any joy in this film. And so as I was watching it, I could appreciate the artistry, but I had a hard time thinking about who it was for. Maybe it's for cinephiles like Walter, but for, like, moms who want to have their problems seen and understood, for people who relate to moms and could do a better job supporting us and parents in general. I'm not sure that this landed or didn't land for me.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah, I think I fall somewhere in the middle of you both in terms of how I responded to this. Unlike you, I'm not a parent. And I have made that deliberate choice not to be. And if I'm going to be frankly honest here, this just kind of reinforced my. You know, Christina, as you said, this is a very extreme case. And again, the little daggers, they just add up over this entire. It's not even just the fact that she's a therapist. And of course, the idea of making someone a therapist means that you are also taking on other people's traumas on top of whatever you have going on in your life. So, like, that's an extreme thing to have this. Plus, your child is very, very sick. Then on top of it, your husband does nothing for you. Like, he is not there physically or emotionally. There's a recurring action that happens in this movie where every time she's always late to take her daughter to the hospital, but then she can't find parking, and she has, like, an antagonistic relationship with the guy monitoring the. Like, every little thing that could go wrong goes wrong. And to me, that just kind of reinforced that. Like parenthood, it just makes all of those things that if you were to face them, even if you're not a parent, it makes those things even more extreme. But at the same Time. I did love Rose Byrne in it, I mentioned she's been a comedian. That's what we know her primary. But there's always a little bit of darkness bubbling underneath every role that she plays. And I think just now she's kind of dialed one aspect of her toolbox back and she's bringing the other one more forward. And I really love seeing that here. I also just really appreciated. One of the choices that is made in this movie is the fact that we do not see the child's face. And it kind of reminds me of the inverse of the Muppet Babies, where, like, we never see Nanny's face. It's just like. It just adds to the. But it also. I'm not sure what it's trying to say, but I liked it and I thought it was a nice touch in a way, because it makes it more about the mother. I mean, yes, it's about the child, but I think there's a way that using the child's face can turn it into, like, maybe sort of treacly or, like, more heavy.
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Walter Chow
In fact, it could turn you against the child.
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Aisha Harris
Yes.
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Walter Chow
Because, you know, the child is so whiny and needy and insinuating. And I think if we looked at her while we were doing all of that, I think it's a really strong strategy to say this is just an element of noise in her life. This is an extraordinary irritation until, you know, you get to a certain point where we're ready to accept, you know, her as a different thing, I think. Yeah, it's a really interesting strategy because not only do we not see her face, we're at extreme close up to Rose Byrne's face for what seems like the first hour and a half of the movie. You almost can't see anything around her face. It's so close. There's a scene where she eats a piece of pizza that's fallen on the floor or something. It just really needs, like, something to feel good about in that moment, I think. So she stuffs, like, a whole piece of pizza in her mouth, and she's just chewing. It feels like forever. And that really drives me crazy to hear other people chewing. You know, I don't even like to hear myself. So I'm watching this. And to both your points, Rose Byrne is so amazing in this. Not the least of which is, like, she's very unafraid to be ugly in this. I don't think anybody looks okay 2 inches from their face in high definition. There's something about this that's so invasive for Me. And I feel like it's almost got a hand coming out of the screen forcing me to look at something. I'm really selling this movie, but it's. You can't look away. And it really reminded me of a movie by Chantal Ackerman. Her first short film called Blow Up My Town is just about a woman doing sort of domestic things and then she sets everything on fire and blows up her apartment. Yeah, I kind of feel like this is sort of the same thing. It's rejecting pleasure. It's rejecting our sense of or ability to look at this period or for a male viewer or whatever. It kind of rejects all of that. And it says this is what she's going through when she has no support systems. This is what this woman is going through. She's a full time mother. She's a full time therapist. She also has to deal with all these domestic issues with her apartment falling apart. Hers, the husband, the kid's difficult. Her patients are difficult. Her own therapist is difficult. You know, it's just a movie about, for me, this sort of like being a grown up kind of. And it's not always like this, thank goodness. But there are times in my life certainly that I felt like if there's one more thing, one more thing, and it could be a little thing, I'm going to completely crack, you know, Michael Douglas falling down. It. I just can't take it. And so the movie for me captures that.
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Christina Escobar
I see that. You know, I think the decision not to show the daughter's face takes away any of the reward of being a mom. Like, what is she doing all of this for? If you can't see the daughter, it doesn't really feel like she's doing it for anything. Like when you see the beautiful babies and they're beautiful and it doesn't matter if it's this kid or somebody else's, there's an inherent sense of possibility and joy and hope.
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Aisha Harris
Right.
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Christina Escobar
And this film tells a story of motherhood without that. And, man, it is just a slog.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah, I think that's so, so interesting, that aspect of joy, because I can totally understand your point of view, Christina, of like, who is this for? What is this movie for? Like, what are we trying to say here? And I think that's an important question to ask. But I also have to wonder, like, is that the point? Which is that this is a character we're not supposed to necessarily. I mean, the Rose Byrne character, this is someone we're not actually supposed to like necessarily. Even if you can Relate to the sort of, like, pain and all of the things that are happening to her and feeling unsupportive. Even if you can relate to that, she still makes some decisions that you have to say. You don't have to make it. Like, we always have choices, and sometimes they're better others. But she does make some life choices, some individual personal choices where I'm just like, you're actually making it worse for yourself or harder for yourself. So why are you doing that? And, you know, look, cinematic history is littered with bad mothers. There are so many of them. It is a trope. And I think some lean more heavily on the evilness than others. But for me, what I found interesting about this movie is that she is both a woman of circumstance, but also sometimes of her own making. And that is almost always ugly. And I kind of. It didn't make me love this movie, but it felt different from a lot of other movies I have seen.
- [12:52]
Christina Escobar
In the same vein, I think there's something to be said for showing bad mothers like this. Like, she's not necessarily actually a bad mother. She's just. I felt overcome by such terrible support systems, Whether it's her daughter's doctor or her therapist, her husband, her housing situation. Like, there's so much and nobody comes to help her.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah.
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Christina Escobar
And, yeah, she definitely makes a lot of decisions that make things worse. Contrary even to some of the good advice she gets. Like, at one point, Conan o' Brien's like, just get a good night's rest. And she, like, can't do it. She can't, like, lay down, which is, in some ways, is human. Like, she's overwhelmed with all the stuff that's happening for the day. It's really hard to rest. It's really hard to take care of yourself when you're dealing with all those other things that I understand. But I think in, like, the movie canon, there are bad moms, which this mom is not evil. I didn't think in any way. I felt like she was a woman who was pressed and that there is a real importance in showing moms who are imperfect. You know, like, there's been this project to say, like, look, there is some stuff about motherhood that's really hard. It's not all joy at all. There's a lot of slog, and particularly in our modern society that really leaves moms alone and kind of out to dry. That I think 100% deserves and needs to be critiqued in film and elsewhere. I think what's hard about this film is that while it certainly critiques that. Because her situation is so extreme, it, to me, didn't feel universal like some of the other films that are tackling this subject do. And also because it is just so, so difficult. I agree that while you're watching it, you can't look away, but I'm not sure many people are going to want to look to begin with.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah. I just want to clarify really quickly. When I say bad mother, I mean bad in air quotes. Like, the very general scope of, like, mothers who either do bad things or do things that are not great or.
- [14:59]
Christina Escobar
Even just aren't fulfilled by motherhood. Like, that's the thing. It's supposed to, like, make you a whole person and make you glow and shine and complete you. And, like, when it doesn't. And in this case, it doesn't. And she has, I thought, like, one of the most meaningful parts is when she's saying, like, I think I'm the person who's not supposed to be a mom. And it's like, that feels really, really powerful. Although that actually felt pretty universal. I think in many ways that, like, many a parent, I don't want to say all, but many a parent has had that doubt. But all the things that combine to make her say that, you know, they're extreme.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah.
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Walter Chow
I think even as I'm listening to you talk, I'm liking the film more in the sense that it doesn't valorize or romanticize motherhood in a way that our culture is really bred to do. And it doesn't valorize nor romanticize the role of women in such a way. You know, their expectations are placed on women in our culture. I am the last person who should be talking about this, but just the idea that I'm not used to seeing this at all. I mean, so to your point, Christina, seeing, you know, a woman who's, oh, you're glowing. I am glowing. It is the best thing, you know, takes away all of that in the process of presenting the story. Yeah, I think it goes a little bit over. It's like, you know, satires go a little bit high. I think you turn up the heat in order to feel the heat, I guess. But there's something about this that's so shocking, I think, to our sensibilities, our culture. We're not raised on this. We're raised on, you know, I Love Lucy and Modern Family or whatever. We're raised on certain ideals of what women should be able to do and should be able to endure to such a damaging degree that we still don't see, like, being a housewife necessarily as a vocation. Yeah, we don't see any of that. And that's what the husband kind of represents in this film. Right. It's like, why can't you do this? Why can't you do this? And this? You know? And she's like, what did you do today? I played tennis or I played golf, you know, because he's on some kind of business trip forever. And I love that because it is really courageous to say she's a complicated person who's having a really rough time with their kid right now and juggling her job and everything. And, yeah, you know, it's A Series of Unfortunate Events are a little bit extreme, I grant you that. Including a demonic hamster, which is one of the best sequences in any movie in this year. But, you know, in the course of that exaggeration, I think what we are finding is a lot of things that are kind of universal. There is this frustration with, like, why do I have to do 10 different things? You get to do one thing. You don't appreciate that the only joy that I get is to stay up at night after the kids asleep and drink hotel wine.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah. Not even hotel motel.
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Walter Chow
Motor Lodge wine. Motor Lodge. Huge in the middle of the night. And I think that element of it, I think, is universal. The underlying message that we're placing an undue burden on just one partner in this film.
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Christina Escobar
Yeah.
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Walter Chow
And that must feel familiar. Hopefully.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah.
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Walter Chow
To some people. I just feel like, yeah, this is what life kind of feels like. It's hard and it's struggle and it's almost uninterrupted. Again, you're both right. I don't know who to recommend this to exactly. You know, it's one of those movies that I love that I can never recommend, but I did feel seen in a very kind of hard for me to pin down kind of way. I felt like I'm usually the one that's making jokes at the support group. I'm usually the one that has to be kicked under the table for, you know, being cynical about someone's happiness. I'm the one that has to be corrected all the time. And I feel forgiven by this movie in a way, you know, to say, yeah, we do spend a lot of our energy and time right now walking around pretending like everything's okay. This sort of, like, performative okayness. And this is a movie that kind of openly rejects that and says, you know what? Things are kind of rough, actually, and you have good reason to be upset.
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Aisha Harris
Yeah, I think that might be who it's for. They say there is something for everyone and everyone can find something. And if our conversation sounds like something that at least piques your interest, then maybe this is the movie for you if you haven't already seen it. But if you have seen it, tell us what you think about. If I had legs, I'd put kick you. Find us on Facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on letterbox@letterbox.com NPRpopculture we'll have a link to that in our episode description. There's a lot to talk about, so I'm sure if you do get a chance to see it, there'll be plenty to talk about with your friends. I'm still thinking about this all these weeks later. So that brings us to the end of our show, Watar Chow. Christina Escobar, thanks so much for being here. This was fun to wrestle over, even if the movie itself was not the most fun thing in the world. Thank you.
- [19:25]
Christina Escobar
Happy to stare into the void with you, Aisha, anytime.
- [19:27]
Walter Chow
It was better than therapy.
- [19:29]
Aisha Harris
Thank you. Well, just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please find out more at plus.npr.org happyaur or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Janae Morris, Mike Katsif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.
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Other historians have compared it to the Apollo missions of going to the moon. Listen to Throughline in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.