Jaws

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Jaws (August 28, 2025)

Overview

In this episode, the Pop Culture Happy Hour panel—Linda Holmes, Glen Weldon, Stephen Thompson, and guest Chris Klimek—celebrates the 50th anniversary of Jaws by revisiting the film to see what new insights they find with fresh eyes. Rather than dissecting its well-trodden legacy, they aim to illuminate what makes the film enduringly potent, why it still resonates as a blockbuster, and what details may have been missed over decades of cultural saturation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Artful Restraint of Jaws

• Linda Holmes notes the movie’s meticulous craftsmanship, emphasizing Spielberg's intentional withholding of gore and the shark itself for maximum suspense:
  • “What sticks out is how very, very carefully and artfully it was done... It's sort of famous for how long it takes to really see the shark.” (04:13)
• Holmes highlights how the film uses reaction shots (especially during the autopsy scene) rather than explicit visuals to build terror and suggest horror.
  • “Rather than seeing, like, a body on a slab, you're basically seeing a bin... Mostly what you get in that scene is just his face reacting to seeing these remains.” (05:25)

The Enduring Power of Restraint

• Stephen Thompson admires the measured pacing and sparing use of gore, which heightens the climactic violence:
  • “The restraint of this film, how slowly this film kind of metes out the action, certainly how sparing it is in meting out the gore, kind of building to an extremely climactic and very traumatic death.” (06:31)
• Thompson notes that the film's only aging comes from certain “cheap” special effects; otherwise, it remains powerfully effective and surprising for a blockbuster:
  • “The only way that this film feels in any way degraded by 50 years is in some of the kind of cheapness of some of the effects.” (07:13)

Why the Sequels Couldn't Recapture the Magic

• Chris Klimek situates Jaws as primal and elemental, making it resistant to reboots or sequels:
  • “It is really, really hard to reboot this because it's so primal, it's so elemental. Like, the ingredients of it are in absolutely everything.” (08:29)
• He draws parallels to Die Hard and Alien, noting the relatable, vulnerable protagonist and the importance of setting and character psychology.

Character Depth & Modern Storytelling Contrasts

• The panel discusses how Jaws withholds too much character backstory by modern blockbuster standards, letting archetypes and performance fill in the blanks.
  • Chris Klimek: “If this movie were coming out now, ... one of the notes on it would have been like, well, we have to know what happened to Brody. ... And I'm so glad we don't get that because when we get Quint's backstory, it's like the greatest monologue in movies.” (09:32)
• The famous USS Indianapolis monologue is celebrated for its depth and stamina in the film, which might not be allowed today:
  • Linda Holmes: “I find it hard to believe that long scene of those guys on the boat... would survive modern expectations about pacing.” (10:27)
• The panel praises the film's “shaggy” pacing and its touches of verité, comparing its texture to the films of Altman and Hitchcock:
  • Glen Weldon: “You might think to yourself, oh, this is a lean, propulsive film ... It's not. It's Shaggy in the beginning. ... Yes, it's got Hitchcock all over it ... But it also has a lot of new Hollywood in it. Altman. Robert Altman.” (13:27)

Masculinity and Archetypes

• Glen Weldon reads the three leads as different masculine archetypes—primitive, intellectual, and evolved—who don't fit simple Freudian molds but reflect changing times:
  • “You've got these three archetypes of masculinity... Quint is the simplest... Chief Brody is... not in his place of comfort. He's on the back foot throughout this film. And what he's doing constantly is mediating conflicts. ... I think he is Spielberg's vision of the 70s... evolved man, self-reflective...” (15:15)
• Linda Holmes quips: “The Alan Alda.” (16:49), with Weldon agreeing that Brody represents a gentler, more contemplative man of the ‘70s.

Politics, Authority, and the Mayor

• Linda points to the mayor character as newly topical: a reckless leader prioritizing commerce and image over public safety:
  • “Who is this incredibly reckless, foolish mayor who is determined to go ahead with the fourth of July.” (17:02)
• Glen Weldon links the film’s distrust of authority to Vietnam and Watergate:
  • “And that's where you see the distrust of government manifesting in this film. Cause this is of the time, Vietnam and Watergate, shaping the culture, shaping how we tell stories.” (19:20)

Realism and Consequence: The Death of a Child

• Linda Holmes remarks on the shocking choice to kill a child, rare for Hollywood then and now, and how it adds gravity to Brody’s struggle:
  • “I think having a kid devoured in a movie like this, it all adds to the weight on Brody in a very effective way.” (20:33)
• The memorable mother’s slap scene reinforces the themes of guilt and responsibility (21:19).

Hooper: Fragility Behind Confidence

• Glen Weldon explores Hooper’s insecure, intellectual masculinity and how his bravado evaporates against Quint’s primal aggression:
  • “That bravado, that entire sense of self, how fragile it is, it crumbles the minute Quint calls him out for having city hands.” (22:04)
  • “The moment I noticed that was really... Brody is sitting there traumatized... The look of delight that crosses Hooper's face as he sees, oh, this guy is coming over into my domain of science and facts.” (22:44)

The Film's Lasting Cultural Footprint

• Linda and Glen reflect on the film's resonance and enduring fear:
  • “It's a really scary movie. Even at home, even on your tv, it's a scary movie. ... The cultural penetration of how scary it is is the other thing...” - Linda Holmes (23:44)
  • Glen Weldon relates Jaws to his own life, noting its influence on whole generations who connected so profoundly with Hooper that it shaped their studies and style:
    • “This film changed the culture. It changed movies. It also changed individual people's lives.” (24:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On filmmaking craft:
  “You get a lot of that from reactions.” — Linda Holmes (05:07)
• On sequels:
  “The plot of this movie really just boils down to, like, shark. That's the plot. And how do you build on that?... the sequels, they just weren't in any way necessary.” — Stephen Thompson (07:13)
• On Brody's character:
  “Brody has somehow ended up as the chief of police on an island, and he's terrified of the water, which is so key to why this movie works so well.” — Chris Klimek (09:13)
  “Martin hates boats.” — Glen Weldon, followed by the panel riffing on Brody’s aquatic animosity (09:15)
• On Quint’s monologue:
  “When we get Quint's backstory, it's like the greatest monologue in movies. Right.” — Chris Klimek (09:32)
• On masculinity:
  “I came up with something when I was watching it. Oh, this has a lot of interesting things to say about masculinity. And then just for fun, I typed Jaws Masculinity and got a couple hundred thousand thesis papers.” — Glen Weldon (15:15)
• On political allegory:
  “You were acting in the town's best interest. And that's why you're going to do the right thing. ... And that's where you see the distrust of government manifesting in this film.” — Glen Weldon (19:20)
• On the indelibility of the movie:
  “My graduating class was nothing but Matt Hooper's denim. The glasses, the beard, the bucket hats. Every dorm room had this poster.” — Glen Weldon (24:42)
• Playful wrap-up:
  “I would tell you how much I appreciate you, but I would need a bigger boat.” — Glen Weldon (25:54)

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Important Timestamps

• [04:13] — Linda Holmes on the film’s careful craftsmanship and Spielberg’s restraint
• [06:31] — Stephen Thompson reflects on fear and trauma, both personal and cinematic
• [08:29] — Chris Klimek discusses why the film is hard to reboot and its influence on other franchises
• [09:32] — The team discusses the lack of modern-style backstory for Brody and celebrates Quint’s monologue
• [13:27] — Discussion of the film’s “shaggy” Altman-esque texture and sense of place
• [15:15] — Glen Weldon explores archetypes of masculinity embodied by Brody, Quint, and Hooper
• [17:02] — Linda Holmes and Chris Klimek dissect the mayor’s role and topicality
• [20:33] — The panel discusses the significant choice to kill a child, and Brody’s burden
• [22:04] — Hooper as intellectual, insecure masculinity; his dynamic with Brody and Quint
• [23:44] — The continued scariness and cultural imprint of Jaws
• [24:42] — Glen Weldon reminisces about Jaws' impact on real-life career choices

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Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, a mix of affectionate nostalgia, sharp critical analysis, and quick humor. The hosts riff off each other while unearthing both big themes and small, lived-in moments. The tone remains conversational, with evocative one-liners and spontaneous group laughter highlighting their affection for the film and its enduring place in pop culture.

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Final Thoughts

As Jaws turns 50, the PCHH crew agrees: its artistry, suspense, and character craftsmanship still make it a terrifying—and oddly tender—classic. Its legacy as the first blockbuster is uncontested, but revisiting it reveals texture, nuance, and innovation that keep it fresh for new and seasoned viewers alike. Their parting consensus: sometimes, the perfect blockbuster is also a perfect film.

Transcript

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[Glen Weldon]

Jaws it's been called the perfect movie. It's been called the first blockbuster. It's been called the film that changed why we go to the movies. The but look, it's 50 years old. It's been called pretty much everything you can think of by now.

[Linda Holmes]

But what does it still have to say half a century later? What do you see if you bring fresh eyes, lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes, to a film that's become a beloved institution? I'm Linda Holmes.

[Glen Weldon]

And I'm Glen Weldon. And just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, we're talking about Jaws. This is pop culture Happy hour from n.

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[Glen Weldon]

I have kids under 18, so like, time is very limited. That's why at BetterHelp, our therapists try to have sessions, sometimes at night, depending on the therapist, or during the weekend. So I think that's what we need to tell the parents. You're not alone. We can help you out.

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[Linda Holmes]

This message comes from Moises, proud supporter of NPR Music and the 2025 Tiny Desk Giveaway. Win a trip for two to see a Tiny Desk concert live at NPR's headquarters. Enter for free by September 12th and boost your odds by donating to the NPR Network and follow where the music takes you with Moises, your AI powered studio created by Musicians for Musicians. Learn more at Moises AI no purchase or donation required for entry. Must be 18 years or older. To enter, links to the entry page and official rules can be [e-mail] tinydeskgiveaway.

[Glen Weldon]

Joining us today is fellow host Stephen Thompson. Hey, Stephen.

[Stephen Thompson]

Hello, Glenn.

[Glen Weldon]

Also with us is writer Chris, always brings a bit klimick. Hey, Chris.

[Chris Klimek]

Mr. Mayor, Chief, ladies and gentlemen. Hello.

[Glen Weldon]

There you go. Here's what you already know about Jaws. It's a movie about a fish and the importance of tourism to a seaside economy and three very different men. There's Brody, played by Roy Scheider. He's the new chief of police of Amity Island, a charming New England committee that depends on its summer's beachgoers. There's Hooper, a marine biologist Brody calls in to help him deal with a series of deadly shark attacks. That's Richard Dreyfus. And there's Quint, the crusty old shark hunter with calloused hands and an even more calloused liver. That's Robert Shaw. You already know that director Steven Spielberg went over budget and over time filming the movie, but was vindicated by its record breaking box office. You already know it became a cultural phenomenon. And you already know that every time you go into the ocean or the pool or the bathtub, somewhere down in the deepest recesses of your mind you hear John Williams iconic score, you know all of this. So instead of talking about the film's legacy, we wanted to watch it again and see if we noticed anything we had not before. So fresh insights, that's the mission. Linda, did you have any fresh insights on this latest rewatch?

[Linda Holmes]

You know, there are a lot of people who receive blockbusters and big action movies and summer movies and stuff like that with an attitude of it doesn't really matter whether it's good or how it's made. The point is it's supposed to be fun. Don't think about it so hard. I think when you watch this movie now, at least for me, what sticks out is how very, very carefully and artfully it was done. In some cases, that had a lot to do with dealing with the conditions on the ground. It's sort of famous for how long it takes to really see the shark. There's a document called jaws at 50 that's now on Hulu and some other places. It is partly, I think, because they had a lot of trouble getting the shark to actually work and to look right. But it's also the philosophy of the movie because one of the things I noticed watching it this time is that when Richard Dreyfus first comes to town, one of the first things they have him do is look at what is left of the first victim of the shark.

[Stephen Thompson]

The enormous amount of tissue loss prevents any detailed analysis.

[Glen Weldon]

However, the attacking squalus must be considerably larger than any normal squalus found in these waters.

[Linda Holmes]

Didn't you get on a boat and.

[Glen Weldon]

Check out these waters? No. Well, this is not a boat accident.

[Stephen Thompson]

There wasn't any propeller. It wasn't any coral reef.

[Linda Holmes]

First of all, you notice that rather than seeing, like, a body on a slab, you're basically seeing a bin, like you would at the tsa, containing what is left of this person other than a very quick shot of her hand. Mostly what you get in that scene is just his face reacting to seeing these remains. And so it's kind of the thing of the whole movie that it is withholding of various things. When you first see. When Roy Scheider first sees her washed up on the beach, there's a very kind of oblique way of approaching showing you her body so that it's gross and terrifying. But you get a lot of that from reactions.

[Glen Weldon]

Oh, Jesus.

[Linda Holmes]

So I think one of the things that I got from it this time is just understanding how much care went into it and how much that has to do with how really, really freaking scary I think this movie still is.

[Glen Weldon]

It remains. So. Steven, longtime listeners will know you have a very fraught history with this property. You were terrified as a young man on the Universal Studios ride when Jaws came out of the water. So did that inform your most recent watch?

[Stephen Thompson]

Not really. Not as much as I kind of expected it to. I expected that trauma to have imprinted on me to that almost 50 years later, I would have this same kind of visceral reaction to it. I was just able to appreciate this time kind of, as Linda mentioned, the restraint of this film, how slowly this film kind of metes out the action, certainly how sparing it is in meting out the gore, kind of building to an extremely climactic and very traumatic death. And what has really seared in my memory from past viewings of Jaws is how traumatic that climactic death remains. In part because the film up to that point has been so careful in how it meets out those scenes. As Linda said, you're seeing bodies, you're seeing parts. You know, at one point, there's a corpse kind of jump scares out from the underside of a submerged boat. And it looks so cheap. It just looks like a mannequin head, you know, the only way that this film feels in any way degraded by 50 years is in some of the kind of cheapness of some of the effects. But the film is so well made in every other way and so restrained in the way it's telling this story. It's interesting. You know, there's just this endless impulse to make sequels. Anytime a film has success, and it kind of. You find yourself just going back to the same well over and over again. Jaws 2, Jaws 3D, Jaws the Revenge. But the plot of this movie really just boils down to, like, shark. That's the plot. And how do you build on that? To me, this just feels like a perfectly contained movie that as inevitable as the sequels, they just weren't in any way necessary.

[Glen Weldon]

Right. Well, speaking of now, Chris, you wrote about this film and its sequels for the Washington Post. We don't want to go too deep on the sequels here, but I have to imagine that that exercise helped you understand why this film works, and maybe those didn't.

[Chris Klimek]

Yeah, like, it is really, really hard to reboot this because it's so primal, it's so elemental. Like, the ingredients of it are in absolutely everything. To an extent that I see the DNA of this in subsequent franchises that have meant so much to me that I've talked about here before, both Die Hard and Alien. The Die Hard connection is that Chief Brody, Roy Scheider's character, is such a relatable, kind of everyman type and has that clearly stated vulnerability. You know, we learn in the opening frames of Die hard that John McClane is terrified of heights, hates flying. So guess what's going to happen before the end of the movie. Brody has somehow ended up as the chief of police on an island, and he's terrified of the water, which is so key to why this movie works so well.

[Glen Weldon]

Martin hates boats.

[Linda Holmes]

Martin hates water.

[Stephen Thompson]

Martin.

[Linda Holmes]

Martin sits in his car when we.

[Glen Weldon]

Go on the ferry to the mainland.

[Linda Holmes]

I guess it's a childhood thing.

[Glen Weldon]

There's a clinical name for it, isn't there? Drowning.

[Linda Holmes]

I would have wondered, will Chris get us to Die Hard first or James Cameron first? And I'm delighted.

[Glen Weldon]

One, two, punch.

[Chris Klimek]

You know, hang on a second. You know, hour number two is I'm saving myself. We talk about meting out the glimpses of the shark very judiciously and keeping the gore kind of very minimized and withheld for a strategic impact. But I think the character stuff in this movie does that, too. And I feel like if this movie were coming out now, if it were being developed now, one of the notes on it would have been like, well, we have to know what happened to Brody. Clearly something happened to make him leave New York. He's clearly trauma. He's a New Yorker. He hates being and amity. Like what? And I'm so glad we don't get that because when we get Quint's backstory, it's like the greatest monologue in movies. Right. So like how can you possibly top that?

[Glen Weldon]

Three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and starts to pick us up. You know, that was the time I was most frightened. Waiting for my turn. I'll never put on a life jacket again.

[Linda Holmes]

I find it hard to believe that that monologue and that that long scene of those guys on the boat. I can't imagine that that scene would survive modern expectations about pacing. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe.

[Stephen Thompson]

But it is so crucial.

[Linda Holmes]

Oh, of course it is. I agree with you.

[Stephen Thompson]

And one thing that I really appreciated rewatching it if you watched the first Alien, part of the appeal is that that ship is just a hunk of junk. The film is contained to this kind of crappy ship and that's part of the story. And it's like Quint's ship is a hunk of garbage. It's visibly rusty and cruddy and that give this kind of scrappy lived in quality that you wouldn't necessarily get if you were telling the story today. Maybe on a bigger budget.

[Glen Weldon]

Absolutely. If they went out on Hooper's boat, which is this sleek state of the art, you wouldn't have the same movie. Here's what I noticed going back through it this next time a Roy Scheider's a snack. Not literally in this film, but never noticed that before. Don't know why. Maybe I'm just getting of a certain age.

[Chris Klimek]

Second thing, he's a bronzer man than you tend to prefer Glen. He's almost orange in this.

[Glen Weldon]

Absolutely. Another thing is that at an age when I'm thinking about real estate and the Brody's house. Great house. The view from that den. And also can we agree non zero chance that Brody is an alcoholic. Right. I'm not wrong here. Right.

[Stephen Thompson]

Yeah. I mean it was the 70s and I feel like everybody was.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah.

[Linda Holmes]

I don't know.

[Glen Weldon]

He's enabled by his wife at one point who at one point pours him not a double whiskey but a quintuple whiskey to help him go to sleep. Which is not how that works. Unless you want him to wake up at 2:30 in the morning.

[Stephen Thompson]

There's a generous pour of wine as well.

[Linda Holmes]

He pours himself a tumbler full of wine.

[Glen Weldon]

Full pint glass. Yeah.

[Linda Holmes]

And in that scene, you know, one of the other things that I really noticed about this is that Spielberg had then and I think has now a feel for scenes that are small and slightly weird in a way that helps them feel like real people. And so in that scene that involves that tumbler of wine, Cooper, played by Richard Dreyfuss, comes to Brody's house and sits down at the dinner table and starts eating off of Brody's plate. Cause he kind of notices nobody's eating it.

[Glen Weldon]

Is anyone eating this?

[Stephen Thompson]

No.

[Linda Holmes]

Which is a really weird thing to do. And they don't really comment on it. As Brody is talking to Hooper, he's picking the label off the wine bottle, which is the kind of thing that you do when you're having a conversation that's a little bit stressful. There's a lot of text about how kind of stressed and anxious Brody is. But there also these moments where you feel his anxiety and fidgetiness and nervousness. You know, it's one thing to appreciate the character stuff like that monologue and, like, some of those things, but I think those, like, really little things, it makes the movie feel a little bit more loose. It makes the movie feel a little bit. Even though it's so carefully choreographed.

[Glen Weldon]

Shaggy. I think what you're talking about here is Shaggy.

[Linda Holmes]

Yes.

[Glen Weldon]

If you are just thinking about this in retrospect, remembering this movie, you'll remember it was a blockbuster. You'll remember the action scene. So you might think to yourself, oh, this is a lean, propulsive film that cuts through the water like a shark. It's not. It's Shaggy in the beginning. That's because of the time when it was made. Yes. It's got Hitchcock all over it. You don't see the shark. But it also has a lot of new Hollywood in it. Altman. Robert Altman. Not just because of the overlapping dialogue, but because that scene in the town hall makes you think, this could be Nashville. If the camera chose to follow any of these people home, you'd still have a movie. Whether it be the lady with the glasses and the really unsettling tan or.

[Chris Klimek]

I don't think that's funn. I don't think that's funny at all.

[Glen Weldon]

Or the guy who, when he gets told they caught a tiger shark, goes, a what? That guy?

[Chris Klimek]

A what?

[Glen Weldon]

The harbor master. We get a lingering shot of the harbor master. There's a lot of untapped comic potential in that deputy. Or the hot guy. Who does not go swimming with the girl at the beginning. People talk about the sense of place in this movie. Yeah, sure. It is a very lived in, grubby, sandy sense of place that Spielberg made himself miserable trying to capture. But he captured it.

[Chris Klimek]

Yeah. I mean, I think there are two things there. And I want to say, like, if this movie launched the blockbuster, which seems to be received wisdom. Right. Maybe this kind of detonates the auteur theory. Everything else that's so great about this movie developed in an iterative way. Like to go back to the Quint monologue they brought in. Howard Sackler came up with the idea of having him survive the sinking of the Indianapolis. And then John Milius did his version. And then Shaw cut it in half because he thought, this is going to be eight minutes of. Yeah, this is a clear note of, like. Each one of these cooks made it better, which is not usually what happens.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah. I came up with something when I was watching it. Oh, this has a lot of interesting things to say about masculinity. And then just for fun, I typed Jaws Masculinity and got a couple hundred thousand thesis papers. But here's what struck me freshly this time. You've got these three archetypes of masculinity who don't slot very neatly over id, ego, superego. But they don't not. And Quint is the simplest to talk about. Cause he's, as you say, the most elemental, the simplest, the most traditional man, like a charismatic bully. Very swaggering, very aggressive also. And this is exactly the kind of thing that would need to get unpacked over several scenes if this film were made today. Just kind of weirdly, passively hostile to women. The film's only woman with a real speaking part, Ellen Brody, reacts when she sees him with something like horror. She flees, in a way. And something's going on there. But Quint is not your audience surrogate. Right. That is meant to be Chief Brody. Chief Brody is in 1975. He's written to be a tough guy, like he was a New York cop. That's shorthand in 1975 for tough guy. But as you talked about, he's not in his place of comfort. He's not in his place of power. He's on the back foot throughout this film. And what he's doing constantly is mediating conflicts. Something Quint never could or would do. He's asking for help. That's another thing Quint never could or would do. That's his character. We've gotta call the Coast Guard, We've gotta hire Quint. We can't do this alone. We're not equipped. I think he is Spielberg's vision of the 70s. I don't know, evolved man, self reflective, probably in therapy.

[Linda Holmes]

The Alan Alda.

[Glen Weldon]

The Alan Alda. There you go. You nailed it. Yes.

[Chris Klimek]

Yeah. I mean, the first like 10 minutes of this movie, it does kind of establish him as basically a film director where everyone in town is coming up to him with their little problems, like, this is his job.

[Linda Holmes]

But he's also someone who is trying to do the right thing and is coming up against one of the other figures that I think has aged most interestingly, who is this incredibly reckless, foolish mayor who is determined to go ahead with the fourth of July.

[Chris Klimek]

Newly topical.

[Linda Holmes]

It feels like on the one hand, Brody, because he's the cop, is in charge. And on the other hand, he can't really get past the mayor, who has a much more detached kind of thinking about things in such a sort of money forward, voter forward, doesn't want to really deal with what's happening. And so Brody has sort of the urgency of trying to convey that action must be taken. And the mayor wants nothing more than to demonstrate that no action need to be. Needs to be taken.

[Chris Klimek]

Right.

[Linda Holmes]

And so he's really the person who wants to act and is being held back by someone who does not really represent a small, particularly strong person, but a person who has a position to thwart him. You know what I mean?

[Stephen Thompson]

It's not that every character in this film behaves perfectly rationally, but that every character in this film behaves according to a clear internal logic. And so you're not left watching this film the way I often am watching, certainly horror movies where it's like, why did you do that? That's not even consistent with what you were saying 10 minutes ago. You know, that mayor played by Murray Hamilton. Like, you understand why he wants this problem to just go and why he's willing to be in denial. Like, okay, they caught a shark. Good enough for me. Open the beaches.

[Linda Holmes]

Right.

[Chris Klimek]

Well, I mean, everyone in this movie is a shark. Right. They're driven by their own needs and they're not troubled by empathy.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, right.

[Stephen Thompson]

And the thing is, he's wrong. Like, obviously, you know, the mayor is wrong, but you do actually understand what he's thinking, why he's thinking it. Like how much he wants this problem to go away. And, you know, he changes over the course of the film based on the facts on the ground. And I just really appreciate that enough thought was put into these characters so that they're not just devices. They don't just feel like plot devices to get this character to do this. You understand what each character in this movie is trying to accomplish and why?

[Glen Weldon]

Larry, the summer is over. You're the mayor of Shark City. These people think you want the beaches open. I was acting in the town's best interest. That's right. You were acting in the town's best interest. And that's why you're going to do the right thing. That's why you're. And we're gonna sign this and we're gonna pay that guy what he wants. Martin. Martin. My kids are on that beach, too. And that's where you see the distrust of government manifesting in this film. Cause this is of the time, Vietnam and Watergate, shaping the culture, shaping how we tell stories. So the mayor wants people on the beaches. Right. He wants the beaches open. Here's where I kind of disagree with you, Steven, because I think he starts out as a character, then becomes a plot device because there's a point where he gets exactly what he wants. The people are on the beaches. They are thronging the beaches. They are at the arcade, they are buying ice cream. But that's not enough for him. He wants them in the water. Why? There is no monetary incentive to get people into the water. You don't spend money in the water. You spend money on the beach. So that felt to me not like a character motivation or like a plot motivation.

[Stephen Thompson]

I think he's looking at it like it's not quite picture perfect. It's not quite like what it's supposed to be. And my job as mayor is to make sure that it's picture perfect.

[Chris Klimek]

The Amity billboard shows the girl in the water. That doesn't show her on the beach.

[Linda Holmes]

Right?

[Stephen Thompson]

Right.

[Linda Holmes]

I also really noticed this movie kills a child gruesomely fairly early in the movie.

[Chris Klimek]

That, to me, is the effect that actually looks more cheesy than the other ones is like that. It is like this fountain of blood, kind of like what would make a body do that.

[Linda Holmes]

But at the same time, like, that is the kind of thing that I do not expect from contemporary Hollywood movies. I would expect to see the kid in danger. I would expect to see the kid need to be rescued. I would expect to see the kid, oh, he's attacked and then he ends up in the hospital. But he's gonna be fine. I think having a kid devoured in a movie like this, it all adds to the weight on Brody in a very Effective way. So that, for example, when the kid's mother comes up to him and slaps him in the face and says, you knew this was going on.

[Glen Weldon]

You knew there was a shark out there. You knew it was dangerous, but you let people go swimming anyway.

[Linda Holmes]

I think it adds very effectively to that the feeling that you get that he's just being pressed from all sides and he feels desperate to fix the situation in a way that gets you to. Yes, maybe he would actually go out on a boat with these two other guys and try to personally participate in getting rid of the shark.

[Glen Weldon]

Yeah, but those two other guys. The third in this masculine triptych is Hooper, who a lot of folks identify with. Brody. I've always identified with Hooper, who. Who brings this kind of fussy masculinity, an entitled. An intellectual masculinity. Because he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

[Stephen Thompson]

Absolutely.

[Glen Weldon]

And makes a thing of how frustrated he is. But you can tell he relishes it. You can tell he loves that position of being the smartest guy in the room. What I noticed this last time is how that bravado, that entire sense of self, how fragile it is, it crumbles the minute Quint calls him out for having city hands. You got city hands, Mr. Hooper. You've been counting money all your life. All right, all right. Hey, I don't need this. I don't need this working class hero crap. That sense of self doesn't exist on its own the way it should. It only exists in relationship with other people, with other men in this film. The moment I noticed that was really what we talked about earlier. He goes over to Brody's house. Brody is sitting there traumatized. He's drunk. But Brody has also started to do some research. And the entire dynamic of that scene is Brody asking, is it true that sharks do this? Is it true that sharks do this? And the look of delight that crosses Hooper's face as he sees, oh, this guy is coming over into my domain of science and facts. He's the student and I am the master. As soon as he's with Quint, he reverts to being the feuding little brother looking to Brody looking to the parent to do something to fix it. I think Hooper is the character that I came away with most fascinated by in this movie.

[Chris Klimek]

He's a high status person, right. I mean, we're told he comes from wealth and everything. I mean, that's why, like you said.

[Stephen Thompson]

Linda, he has a very expensive boat.

[Chris Klimek]

I mean, yeah, that's why, like, it's so notable that he just comes over to the Brody house and just helps himself to their dinner. I mean, he's, you know, he's been raised in polite society. He knows that's bad manners. You know, he just. He just doesn't care. And that moment, he craves Quint's approval in a way that Brody doesn't.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, it's really. It's a really scary movie. And it's like, how can you possibly think it's interesting to say Jaws is scary after 50 years? But, like, Jaws is really scary. It's a really scary movie. Even at home, even on your tv, it's a scary movie. And I think, like, the cultural penetration of how scary it is is the other thing that, you know, again, in that doc, they show some of the. All of the, like, merch and the stuff that came out of Jaws. The grip of this movie was so tremendous that it even reached beyond, I think, itself as a movie 100%, which makes it, for me, interesting to go back and actually watch the movie and engage with it directly and not just with the idea of it. Right. The idea of, like, sharks and Jaws and it's all scary and Shark Week and all that garbage.

[Glen Weldon]

This film changed the culture. It changed movies. It also changed individual people's lives. And I know them, okay, because this film came out in 1975. I went to undergrad for marine biology in 1986. My classmates were all people who had seen this film too young, 8, 9, 10 years old, but who had spent the intervening years watching it on VHS over and over and over again. They could lip sync every scene. My graduating class was nothing but Matt Hooper's denim. The glasses, the beard, the bucket hats. Every dorm room had this poster. This film takes me back not to 1975, but to 1986 through 1990.

[Chris Klimek]

So just in time for Jaws, the revenge. Just caught that in the summer of 87, as it was waning.

[Linda Holmes]

I think we have come around to the conclusion that Jaws is a good movie.

[Chris Klimek]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Stephen Thompson]

I don't know. I think it needs more sharks. What if there were, like, 20 sharks? It would be 20 times better.

[Glen Weldon]

What if there's a kind of NATO of sharks?

[Chris Klimek]

I mean, when James Cameron came along and was like, what if we called the sequel Jaws and made bank exactly.

[Glen Weldon]

With a dollar sign. Well, listeners, have you watched Jaws recently? And if so, what'd you notice? You can let us know on Facebook or letterboxd or carrier pigeon. It's up to you. We'll have links in our episode description Chris Klimek, Linda Holmes, Stephen Thompson, I would tell you how much I appreciate you, but I would need a bigger boat.

[Linda Holmes]

Aw, thank you, buddy.

[Chris Klimek]

I love you.

[Glen Weldon]

And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture has Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org happy hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Janae Morris and Mike Katsev and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. And hello Kimin provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all next time.

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[Linda Holmes]

Message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless? And made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and nationwide coverage. See for [e-mail] Switch this message comes.

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