Loading summary
Transcript76 lines
- [00:00]
Sponsor/Announcer
This message comes from Warby Parker prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.
- [00:15]
Linda Holmes
Hey, it's Linda Holmes. Before we start the show today, I want to talk for a minute about something near and dear to our hearts around here, public media. It's a phrase that's been in the news a lot this year. It's also what makes Pop Culture Happy Hour and all the podcasts you love from NPR Uni. Public Media is made for you. It centers and serves you with stories and conversations meant to enrich your understanding and your life. From its founding in the US Public Media was also meant to illuminate underrepresented communities and to provide cultural insight that expands your perspective. We still believe in these commitments of public media at npr. We always will. But as of this fall, federal funding for public media, including NPR and local NPR stations, has been eliminated. As we move into this uncharted future together, we know that you will not let the service that has been here for you all these years falter. We rely on your support to bring you Pop Culture Happy Hour now more than ever. This year, we have loved bringing you conversations about new releases and old favorites and everything from awards show recaps to our favorite YouTube channels and one hit wonders. And we can't wait to see what we'll get into together in 2026. And if you already go the extra mile as an NPR supporter, thank you so much. If not, you can join the PLUS community, get a bunch of perks like bonus episodes and more from across NPR's podcasts, and support Public Media by signing up for NPR today at plus.NPR.org.
- [01:57]
To Hollywood's long history of movies about Hollywood, we now add Netflix's J. Kelly, starring George Clooney as an aging movie star with a status very much like, well, George Clooney's. The film is an exploration of regret and missed opportunities.
- [02:12]
Aisha Harris
Director and co writer Noah Bauback works with a big cast, including Adam Sandler as Jay's longtime manager and Laura Dern as his publicist. And they all struggle to manage Jay on a trip through Europe as he deals with the difficult relationship he has with his two grown daughters. I'm Aisha Harris.
- [02:29]
Linda Holmes
And I'm Linda Holmes. And today we're talking about Jay Kelly on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
- [02:38]
Sponsor/Announcer
This message comes from AT&T. America's First Network is also its fastest and most reliable based on rootmetrics United states root score report 1H 2025 tested with best commercially available smartphones on three national mobile networks across all available network types. Your experiences may vary. RootMetrics rankings are not an endorsement of AT&T. When you compare, there's no comparison.
- [03:02]
AT&T support for NPR and the following message come from 20th Century Studios with Ella McKay. A new comedy from Academy Award winning writer director James L. Brooks. An idealistic young woman juggles her family and work life in a story about the people you love and how to survive them. Featuring an all star cast including Emma Mackey, Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Lowden, Kumail Nanjani, Ayo Adebiri, Spike Fern. Julie Kavner. With Albert Brooks and Woody harrelson. See Ella McKay only in theaters this Friday. Get tickets now.
- [03:37]
This message comes from Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth using your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from NPR sponsor Capella University. Sometimes it takes a different approach to pursue your goals. Capella is an online university accredited by the Higher Learning Commission. That means you can earn your degree from wherever you are and be confident your education is relevant, recognized and respected. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more about earning a relevant degree at Capella. Edu.
- [04:32]
Linda Holmes
Joining us today is Andrew Lapen. He's a senior reporter for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency and the host of the podcast Radioactive the Father Coughlin Story. Welcome back, Andrew.
- [04:43]
Andrew Lapin
Thank you. It's great to be here.
- [04:45]
Linda Holmes
Absolutely great to see you. So Jay Kelly, played by George Clooney, is a famous actor who's still in demand and who's the biggest client of his longtime manager and good friend Ron, played by Adam Sandler.
- [04:58]
Aisha Harris
Look at you.
- [04:59]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
You're the American dream. You're the last of the old movies. I'm down here, you're up there. You're down here, you're in here. It's amazing. We've accomplished so much. Everything you say makes it worse.
- [05:10]
Linda Holmes
Early in the movie, Jay impulsively decides to catch up with his daughter, who's on a European vacation with some friends. It's as good a time as any to get out of town because he's just had a Hostile run in with an old friend, Timothy, played by Billy Crudup, who knows some unpleasant things about Jay that he's threatening to reveal. As Jay travels, pursued by a shrinking entourage, Ron tries to hold everything together alongside Jay's publicist, Liz, played by Laura Dern, who is just about at her breaking point putting up with Jay's bad decisions. As for Jay himself, he's drifting through old memories that remind him how many times he's made decisions that have brought him to where he is, but for good and for ill, and he has limited time to preserve the relationships he has left. Jay Kelly is streaming on Netflix. Aisha, I'm gonna go to you first. You like this movie, right?
- [06:03]
Aisha Harris
I was shocked by how much I liked this movie. Historically speaking, I have been pretty neutral, indifferent when it comes to Noah Baumbach films. I don't actively dislike them, but I also see them and for the most part, don't really think about them afterwards. And this is a movie, J. Kelly, that. I was very much drawn to this film from the very beginning. And there are two scenes that kind of got their hooks in me and still have their hooks in me. And I'm still thinking about, you know, weeks after I've already seen it. And that is first, the early scene with Crit up in the bar. It's just sort of like a really great scene where we learn so much about who both of these characters are just through dialogue and conversation. And, like this very noticeable tonal shift that happens, and it just unfolds in this very. It just feels so real. It feels like a real conversation you would have.
- [06:55]
Linda Holmes
They're old acting buddies. They studied acting together.
- [06:59]
Aisha Harris
Exactly.
- [06:59]
Linda Holmes
Jay went on to become a gigantic star and Timothee did not.
- [07:03]
Aisha Harris
Yes. And so the genial tone quickly sours, and it's just kind of perfectly calibrated. I think it's just such a well written scene.
- [07:11]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
I made two bad decisions.
- [07:13]
Aisha Harris
Yeah.
- [07:13]
Andrew Lapin
Yeah. You know, I passed on the original 90210. I was doing Hamlet in Louisville.
- [07:18]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
That's cool. I haven't done a play since high school. What was the other one?
- [07:24]
Andrew Lapin
I'll let you come to that audition.
- [07:26]
Aisha Harris
And then the final scene was really kind of what put me over the top because there are ways in which it plays with expectations, I think, especially my expectations of how these movies can tend to go. And I think it plays into that. But then it kind of rips the rug out of you at the very last moment in a way that I found very satisfying. I really loved this and enjoyed it. And wow, I guess I like a Noah Baumbach film. So here I am.
- [07:52]
Linda Holmes
I'm glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear it. Andrew, what did you think?
- [07:54]
Andrew Lapin
I liked it too. And I guess I do like Baumbach in general. It's notably more sentimental than he tends to be. And I think the things I like about Bambach, when he's like, firing on all cylinders, is he makes a lot of these kinds of movies about arrogant, self centered, artistic types. And he usually has a way of showing you the pricklier and kind of uglier side of human insecurity, kind of through these characters. And you get a little bit of that here, but it feels a little bit more engineered maybe, but it wasn't a bad thing. I really enjoyed watching it. There's a lot of pleasure to be found here. There's a lot of comedy because you have George Clooney at the center doing the sort of aging actor thing. It becomes like a rumination on, like, how far charisma and charm can get a person in life and sort of what the limits of those are and the fact that, you know, he craves the attention of these adoring strangers, but he has next to no meaningful relationship with his own family or with his closest staff. The movie plays with those dynamics in a smart way. And I liked what it was saying.
- [09:01]
Linda Holmes
Yeah, I think they do some really interesting work around his relationship with Ron, with his manager. I think Adam Sandler is outstanding in this movie. And I know it is not news anymore that Adam Sandler is a really good actor. I mean, we've seen Adam Sandler be a really good actor, but I think this is maybe my favorite dramatic performance of his in the sense that it is so vulnerable. And I think sometimes he's fought the sort of the assumption that he's all comedy by doing roles where the guys are really kind of prickly, to use a word that Andrew already referenced in another context. But you know, guys that are kind of aggressively unlikable to try to play with that. I'm not being funny, but I think here he is incredibly, I think, a sympathetic character, even though at times he's also ridiculous. And this guy has essentially put all of his chips behind Jay for his whole life. And although he has tried certainly to maintain his family relationships more successfully and has thus far maintained them more successfully, he has also sort of decided to be in the J. Kelly business. And you see some of the ways in which that has professional ramifications for him with other clients, because you can't serve everybody equally well necessarily. So you see what that's doing to him. You see the publicist, played by Laura Dern, who ultimately just kind of has to get out of the madness of this trip and all of this stuff that Jay is doing. Why should we be chasing around an infant where we have actual living kids at home who are aging by the minute?
- [10:42]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
Because we are supporting a great artist who shares with other human beings what it is to be a human being.
- [10:49]
Linda Holmes
We're human too, Ron. But I agree with Andrew that Jay's desire to be adored by strangers becomes a really interesting. There's a great little sequence where Jay doesn't want to get a glass of water for himself. And Ron is kind of like, can you not get your own glass of water? But like 30 seconds later, he wants to do a big heroic jump into the middle of a chaotic situation and play the hero. You realize that if he perceives it to be something that he'll be adored for, he'll go way, way, way out of his way. If he doesn't perceive it that way, he literally wants to his manager, who is a professional and probably someone who's well paid to spend his time going and fetching a drink of water. And I thought that that juxtaposition was really, really interesting.
- [11:35]
Andrew Lapin
I think one thing the movie does really well to that point, Linda, is showing the effects of fame and wealth on the people around this guy, the people who are in his orbit. Sandler is great. As you talked about, you know that scene with Billy Crudup, you get a totally different lens on that. You get someone who feels like he was cheated out of something, feels entitled to it. And the framing of how all these people try to project what they want or what they think they want on this actor who made a name for himself being kind of a blank slate, affable guy. I got a lot out of that dynamic. And I think it. The movie is smart with how it plays with that. And what was it worth? Right? Like, that's what the whole movie is sort of asking. I saw this movie partially as an elegy of like, a certain kind of movie star. That George Clooney is kind of the last of his breed, you know, someone who could build this whole empire off of charm and likability that didn't have to do IPs in franchises. And, you know, to that sense, I thought it was pretty ironic that Netflix drops this movie on the same day that we learn they might be buying Warner Brothers. And this sort of further consolidation of what show business used to mean.
- [12:52]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, well, let's not forget Batman. He did play Batman. As we all know, George Clooney would rather we all forget that he did that. Then, of course, the Ocean's Eleven franchise. But I think your point still stands. And another thing that I found really interesting about this is that it just feels like the type of movie that George Clooney himself, to that point, has been working his whole life towards. Like, this feels like the culmination of his public Persona as a movie star. You know, this isn't a one for one comparison because his children are much younger than J. Kelly's are in this movie. And so, like, we don't know what his relationship is with his children, but, like, by the time he had them, he was in his older stage, so it's not like he was.
- [13:32]
Linda Holmes
And he's talked about that. That he got famous later in his life than it seems like Jay did, and that he thinks that was to his benefit.
- [13:39]
Aisha Harris
Yeah. So this movie makes those very direct comparison. Like, Cary Grant, his name is said. Gary Cooper's name is said. Paul Newman's face is behind him. At one point, in one scene, it was funny because there's a moment on that really great train sequence that you were kind of referencing earlier. All the people on the train are like, oh, my God, it's Jay Kelly. And so he's turning into, I'm with the people. I'm gonna talk to the people on this train.
- [14:02]
Andrew Lapin
You're 60? Yes. You can get old if you're getting old. That means I am.
- [14:08]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
I'll stop if you will.
- [14:09]
Aisha Harris
And one of them is kind of. She's a younger person and she's just like, non plus by him.
- [14:14]
Linda Holmes
What do you say to people who.
- [14:16]
Andrew Lapin
Say you only play yourself?
- [14:17]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
You know how difficult it is to be yourself? You try it.
- [14:21]
Aisha Harris
There's this famous quote that Cary Grant gave, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he says something about, like, the critics have accused me of being myself on a screen, but being oneself is more difficult than you'd suppose. And Jay says, like, basically the same exact thing. It's like, there's just something very interesting about someone like George Clooney doing this sort of meta version of himself. And I think it works in part because George Clooney is just so charismatic. But he's also unafraid in this role to sort of play someone who also, like, I can understand why his daughters don't really want to have that much.
- [14:53]
Sponsor/Announcer
To do with him.
- [14:54]
Aisha Harris
You know, he walks that fine Line so, so well. And I think this is just one of the great George Clooney performances because he has age, and he is willing to accept that age comes with these sacrifices. And looking back on those sacrifices, in.
- [15:10]
Andrew Lapin
Many ways, I love that he has this generic charm response that he gives to any stranger who encounters him on the street. And then if he recognizes the person, he does this extra beat of like, oh, wait, actually, I want to be genuine with you for a second. He, like, can't remember how to do that.
- [15:23]
Linda Holmes
I think there's a lot to be said for the film's willingness to recognize both that his status as essentially a business that a lot of other people are supported by is very hard on those other people, as we've talked about, but also it is hard on him. And I think the film recognizes his limitations and what a frustrating person he can be, while also being sympathetic to how he ended up like this. Both because he really loves being in movies. He really loves being on movie sets. He loves doing this work. He always wants to, like, get the best possible take. There's kind of a running sort of a motif about how he always wants to keep going and try it again. You know, you also eventually meet his father, who's played by Stacy Keats, and you get a sense from that of, you know, that his relationship with his dad is part of how he got this way. I really liked Marriage Story, and one of the reasons I really liked Marriage Story was that I didn't feel like it took anybody's side. I felt like it understood that this situation was terrible for everybody for different reasons, and that everybody had done things that were unkind, and everybody had done things that were frustrating. And I think what I like about this film, and maybe it's something that I like about the way that Baumbach writes films, is that there's no villain, right? It is a movie about feelings. It's a movie about. Largely about this emotional bond between Jay and Ron and whether or not it is real. And I think that is one of the things that just kind of keeps coming back in the film. To what degree are these men close? And to what degree are they just business associates who are very reliant on each other?
- [17:14]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
I loved you. I love you, too, Ronnie. But are we friends? Of course we are. Then be a friend to me and let's go back to work. I mean, you're J. Kelly, but I'm J. Kelly, too. We did this together. You actually said that to me one time.
- [17:29]
Linda Holmes
Ron, the Adam Sandler manager, calls everybody Puppy. Over and over and over again. And sometimes when I was watching him do that, I thought he does this partly because he's consciously keeping himself in that mode of, it's my responsibility to baby these people. Cause you meet another of his clients who's played by Patrick Wilson, who I think is very good and often funny in this. And he also calls him Puppy. So it's not a pet name for Jay. The basic emotional question of this film is, what is the closeness of these two men? And does Jay want to preserve it? And if he does, is it for personal reasons or is it for, I have no chance of surviving in my life without this guy who takes care of everything for me?
- [18:23]
Aisha Harris
Yeah, well, I mean, it's clearly both, right? And there's a scene where he flat out says it. He's like, you're my friend. My friend who takes 15% of my income. And that's another thing I think this movie does so well is it really understands the way these ecosystems run. And there is a movie where, you know, Jay could have been some sort of villain, or he could have been someone who is insecure about his acting abilities. That's not what this movie is about. This is about him sort of trying to reconcile with the fact that he loves to be loved, but is not very good at showing that love towards the people who really need it, I. E. His children. And also Run. There's the big elephant in the room, I think, which is sentimental value. The movie that we have talked about, Joachim Trier's movie, which is pretty similar in certain ways in the fact that it's about an artist, a filmmaker played by Stellan Skarsgrd, who is trying to reconnect with his also adult daughter's children. It's funny because that movie, in so many different ways, is less sentimental than this. But I think at the end of this film, it's less sentimental than sentimental value.
- [19:36]
Linda Holmes
I think that's right.
- [19:37]
Aisha Harris
There is, yes. This sense of, like, there's strings, there's pianos, there's a lot of, like, oh, what have I done with my life? But I don't think it gives us all the answers in the way that some movies might. And I think that's another reason why, I don't know, I liked it. It just really worked for me.
- [19:54]
Andrew Lapin
I think that ending probably works better for me than the little snippets of J. Kelly's earlier life that we get throughout the film.
- [20:02]
Aisha Harris
The flashbacks.
- [20:03]
Andrew Lapin
Yeah, they're fine. He's sort of watching them from a distance. It's A thing we've seen in, like, Fellini or Wild Strawberries. Like, I think Baumbach is very conscious of the influences in those kinds of moments. I didn't really, if we were seeing the snippets of the character's interiority there, that maybe I would have liked to. Of course, he doesn't have much of it. So that's also part of what's being established in those scenes. I want to quickly give a shout out to the opening sequence, which is exactly my jam. It's a movie set. There's all these moving parts. It's an extended take. There's people running around. Everything's very busy, dynamic lighting.
- [20:41]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
The dog. Can we do it with the dog?
- [20:43]
Andrew Lapin
Jay wants the dog.
- [20:44]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
Can we bring the dog? Frank?
- [20:45]
Aisha Harris
That dog makes more money than any of us.
- [20:46]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
Can we see a light drizzle?
- [20:49]
Linda Holmes
That's a drizzle.
- [20:49]
Aisha Harris
It's more like a deluge.
- [20:51]
Andrew Lapin
It closes in on Clooney as Kelly at the very end and doing a death scene, which is also very thematically appropriate. Stuff like that, like, it really helps elevate this film one notch above a lot of the kind of love letters to movies that we tend to get out of Hollywood these days. I liked the presentation of this.
- [21:10]
Aisha Harris
I completely understand your reaction to some of those flashbacks. I also think it teetered a little hammy sometimes. I think maybe, but it just pays off for me.
- [21:23]
Linda Holmes
I think it's a bound back thing that you don't get a solution to the emotional problem of the film in the same way that you do in sentimental value. Kind of get a little bit of a solution to that. Right. You have a catharsis. I think in this movie you have more a person who is learning to live with the consequences of what he has done and what his decisions have been. Because I don't know how you guys read this, but when I watched the movie, I was like, okay, they're being pretty straightforward about the fact that to a degree, and his daughters don't hate him, his daughters don't hate him, they don't refuse to speak to him. But in terms of the closeness that he finds that he wishes he had had with them, it's too late. And I think the movie is honest about the fact fact that it's too late to redo everything and end up with the version of your life that you now think maybe would have been better. And you have to find a way to be at peace with that and to try to be honest with yourself about your regrets and about your choices. I think there's a really interesting ambiguity.
- [22:34]
Andrew Lapin
Absolutely. Yeah. There seems to be a lot going on this movie season with discussions of sacrifices that you are not willing to make to achieve greatness. Just saw Blue Moon as well, and there's a little bit of conversation with that here. Everybody seems to be coming to different conclusions about what is worthwhile here and what is the goal. He doesn't know how to turn off that drive or what the drive is for.
- [23:01]
Linda Holmes
You get it and then you have to keep it.
- [23:02]
Andrew Lapin
Yeah.
- [23:03]
Aisha Harris
It makes me a little bit happy or pleased that we're finally asking the question, can men have it all? And clearly.
- [23:13]
Clearly it's an eternal question for everyone.
- [23:17]
Linda Holmes
Well, I think this is a movie that we all sort of liked. I certainly recommend seeing it for the performances particularly. Great job, Adam Sandler. Just great job. Well, tell us what you think about J. Kelly. Find us on Facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on Letterboxd@letterboxd.com NPRpopculture we'll have a link in our episode description that brings us to the end of our show. Andrew Lapin, Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here. I would go to Tuscany with either of you anytime.
- [23:45]
Andrew Lapin
Pack my bags, let's go.
- [23:46]
Ron (Adam Sandler's character)
Same.
- [23:46]
Aisha Harris
Thank you, Linda.
- [23:47]
Linda Holmes
This episode is produced by Liz Metzger, Carly Rubin, Kayla Latimore and Mike Katzeff, and it was edited by our showrunner, Jessica. Jessica Reedy hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Linda Holmes and we'll see you all next time.
- [24:07]
Sponsor/Announcer
Support for this podcast and the following message come from Strawberry Me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Are you stuck in a job you've outgrown or never wanted in the first place? Are your reasons for staying really just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from Strawberry Me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your Corner and get 50% off your first coaching session at Strawberry Me. NPR.
- [24:37]
Support for NPR and the following message come from Rosetta Stone. The perfect app to achieve your language learning goals, no matter how busy your schedule gets. It's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10 minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus, tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at rosettastone.com NPR this message comes from Cachava.
- [25:07]
Indulge in holiday cravings with the nutrition you need from Cacava's all in One Whole body shake. It packs 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, grains and more high quality ingredients with no fillers or nonsense. Try the newest flavor, Limited Edition Chocolate mint. Go to cachava.com and use code NPR for 15 off. That's Kachava K A C H-A V A.com code NPR.