Love Island

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Deep Dive into Love Island USA

Episode: Love Island
Release Date: July 8, 2025
Hosts: Linda Holmes, Glen Weldon, Stephen Thompson, and Aisha Harris
Guests: Ba Parker (Code Switch), Ronald Young Jr. (Leaving the Theater), Shamira Ibrahim (Culture Writer/Critic)

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1. Introduction to Love Island USA

Aisha Harris kicks off the episode by highlighting the cultural phenomenon that is Love Island USA, emphasizing its role as a modern-day "water cooler event" that has captivated audiences with its blend of romance, competition, and drama. She outlines the show's format: a group of attractive singles reside in a tropical villa, engaging in games and scenarios to form romantic pairings, with new "bombshells" introduced periodically to stir the pot. The ultimate goal for contestants is to find love and win a cash prize as the last couple standing.

Key Quote:
Aisha Harris ([03:17]): "Love Island USA is one of many spinoffs of the long-running British hit Love Island. [...] viewers experience it in real-time, Big Brother style."

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2. Panel Introductions and Initial Impressions

The panel introduces themselves—Ba Parker from NPR's Code Switch, Ronald Young Jr. from Leaving the Theater, and culture writer Shamira Ibrahim. Ronald shares his enthusiasm, describing the latest season as "peak trash reality television" that he's thoroughly hooked on since the first episode.

Key Quote:
Ronald Young Jr. ([04:30]): "From the first episode [...] I'm hooked. It is peak trash reality television."

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3. The Allure and Evolution of Love Island USA

Aisha reflects on her initial hesitation due to the show's intense release schedule but admits to being captivated by the current season's dynamics. Ba Parker discusses how different international iterations of Love Island reflect their respective social contexts, noting that the U.S. version has made more explicit racial dynamics compared to its British counterpart.

Key Quote:
Ba Parker ([05:46]): "The racial switch that we've all been alluding to becomes much more explicit. [...] we're allowed to look at Black women as desirable on the show."

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4. Diversity and Representation

Shamira Ibrahim praises the diverse cast of this season, highlighting the increased presence of Black women and the complexities that comes with it. She points out that while the show offers more representation, it often mishandles cultural relations, making it feel like a magnified version of societal interactions.

Key Quote:
Shamira Ibrahim ([06:33]): "From a diverse standpoint, it feels an appetite. But like the way that cultural relations are handled on there done poorly."

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5. Character Dynamics and Racial Components

The discussion shifts to specific contestants, particularly Ace and Jeremiah. Aisha expresses fascination with Ace's manipulative strategies and the show's portrayal of male-female dynamics within the context of racial stereotypes.

Key Quotes:
Aisha Harris ([09:00]): "Ace is a menace [...] his whole thing with Huda, Huda, Kuda, Shoulda, and Jeremiah was really fascinating."
Ronald Young Jr. ([12:10]): "He is the type of guy who [...] it's so interesting to me to watch Ace and the way he's moved throughout this entire season."

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6. Production Decisions and Their Impact

Ronald critiques the show's production choices, such as handling relationships and eliminations in ways that may not align with the authentic progression of contestant relationships. He points out that introducing terms like "love bombing" and not addressing the fallout of contestant actions can detract from the show's credibility.

Key Quote:
Ronald Young Jr. ([12:47]): "Introducing the term love bombing, which is being inaccurately depicted in this show [...] it feels completely unchecked."

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7. Social Media Influence and Audience Engagement

Ba Parker explores how Love Island USA integrates audience participation through social media, effectively breaking the fourth wall. This interaction allows viewers to influence the show's direction in real-time, creating a dynamic where the audience is more informed than the participants.

Key Quote:
Ba Parker ([20:21]): "It's an accelerated version of that [...] watching people's brains break in real time [...] is what I think is the magic that makes reality TV."

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8. Handling Controversies and Harassment

The panel tackles the show's response to contestant controversies, such as Ciara and Yolissa leaving due to racial insensitivity. They critique the show's tendency to gloss over these serious issues with vague explanations, rather than addressing them head-on.

Key Quote:
Aisha Harris ([22:53]): "The way that this show handles the harassment from the outside [...] they don't address that. [...] it's very rarely like Real World Season 1 in New York."

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9. Audience Polarization and Rooting Interests

Ronald notes that the diverse cast allows for more fans to engage by rooting against specific contestants, a departure from previous seasons where generally only one Black contestant was present. This shift creates multiple points of engagement and conflict among the audience.

Key Quote:
Ronald Young Jr. ([26:23]): "Now I'm like, oh, I can openly, actively hate both Ace and Taylor because there's plenty of other Black folks to root for."

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10. Conclusion and Predictions

As the discussion winds down, each panelist shares their favorite and least favorite contestants. Ba roots for Brian and Amaya, Ronald favors Huda and Chris, and Shamira also supports Brian and Amaya. They express anticipation for how the season will unfold, especially with the upcoming finale.

Key Quote:
Shamira Ibrahim ([27:21]): "I'm rooting for Brian and Amaya."

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Final Thoughts

The panel provides a comprehensive analysis of Love Island USA, delving into its representation, character dynamics, production choices, and the interplay between the show and its audience. They highlight the complexities introduced by a more diverse cast and the challenges the show faces in addressing serious issues while maintaining its entertainment value.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Aisha Harris ([03:17]): "Love Island USA is one of many spinoffs of the long-running British hit Love Island."
• Ronald Young Jr. ([04:30]): "From the first episode [...] I'm hooked. It is peak trash reality television."
• Ba Parker ([05:46]): "The racial switch that we've all been alluding to becomes much more explicit."
• Shamira Ibrahim ([06:33]): "From a diverse standpoint, it feels an appetite."
• Ronald Young Jr. ([12:10]): "He is the type of guy who [...] it's so interesting to me to watch Ace and the way he's moved throughout this entire season."
• Ba Parker ([20:21]): "It's an accelerated version of that [...] watching people's brains break in real time [...] is what I think is the magic that makes reality TV."
• Aisha Harris ([22:53]): "The way that this show handles the harassment from the outside [...] they don't address that."

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Produced by: Mike Katzeff
Edited by: Jessica Reedy
Engineering: Neal Rauch
Theme Music: Hello. Kamin

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For more insights and discussions, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus and support the podcast!

Transcript

[Aisha Harris]

Support for npr. And the following message come from Indeed. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Claim your $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com NPR terms and conditions apply. The monoculture no longer exists, but this summer, Love island might be the closest thing we've got to a water cooler event. Pure chaos. And admittedly, kind of love it. The latest season of the knowingly trashy reality dating series has fired up the group chats thanks to this messy batch of conventionally sexy singles. Sometimes, for better or worse, fans even get to stir the pot and decide who stays or goes. I'm Aisha Harris and Buckle up, babes. Today we're open to exploring Love island on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. The House of Representatives has approved a White House request to claw back two years of previously approved funding for public media. The rescissions package now moves on to the Senate. This move poses a serious threat to local stations and public media as we know it. Please take a stand for public media [e-mail] thank you. This is Eric Glass on this American Life. Sometimes we just show up somewhere, turn on our tape recorders and see what happens.

[Ba Parker]

If you can't get seven cars in.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

12 days, you gotta look yourself in.

[Ba Parker]

The mirror and say, holy, what are you kidding me?

[Aisha Harris]

Like this car dealership trying to sell its monthly quota of cars and it is not going well.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

I just don't want one balloon to a car. Balloon the whole freaking place so it looks like a circus.

[Aisha Harris]

Real life stories every week. You know, those things you shout at the radio or maybe even at this very NPR podcast on NPR's Wait, Wait, don't tell me. Actually say those things on the radio and on the podcast. We're rude across all media. We think the news can take it. Listen to NPR's Wait, Wait, don't tell me. Wherever you get your podcasts, you're listening.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

To NPR because you're curious.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

You want to know what the world.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Is like beyond the surface. NPR feeds that curiosity with stories from real people, with real experiences and all the perspectives that come with them. It's our right to be curious and our prerogative to listen.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

So keep your curiosity alive.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Hear the bigger picture every day on NPR.

[Aisha Harris]

Joining me today is Ba Parker. She's one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast. Hello, Parker.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Hello.

[Aisha Harris]

Also with us is Ronald Young Jr. He's the host of the Film and Television Review podcast Leaving the Theater. Hello to you too, Ronald.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

You know, I'm looking forward to exploring this connection, Aisha.

[Aisha Harris]

Aren't we all? Aren't we all? And rounding up the panel is culture writer and critic Shamira Ibrahim. Hello, Shamira.

[Ba Parker]

Aisha, you know, we've known each other for. So are you ready to close this off yet or no?

[Aisha Harris]

I don't know. Shamira, do you have pancakes ready for me? I expect some pancakes at the end of this recording.

[Ba Parker]

Freshly made shape of an A. Duly noted. Duly noted.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Shape of a letter A.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, man. Okay, so yes, Love Island USA is one of many spinoffs of the long running British hit Love Island. A crop of hot men and women are thrown into a villa in a tropical locale to compete for each other's affections via highly convoluted games and scenari. Every once in a while, new hot singles known as bombshells are also thrown into the mix. The ostensible goal here is, to quote, unquote, find love. But there's also a cash prize at the end for the last couple standing because of course, they're games. You got to have some games in here. Now, what makes Love island different from other reality dating shows is that it airs six days a week. My God. For several weeks, and viewers experience it in realish time, Big Brother style. There's just a mere one to two day delay between the taping and airing of new episodes. In fact, some folks are currently still on that island making out probably right now as I speak. On this Monday afternoon, Love Island USA is streaming on Peacock and the finale drops Sunday. So, Ronald, I'm actually gonna start with you. I know that you are a huge fan, but tell me, like, what is it about this show and this season in particular that has got you, like, hyped? Why are you loving Love Island?

[Ronald Young Jr.]

I've only watched one other season of Love island and it was of the original recipe, the British one. This one in I sensed people around me gearing up and being excited about it and I was just like, I haven't watched a season of Love island usa. Let me just jump in on this one. And from the first episode, I don't know if it's this cast or I don't know if it's the discourse or probably some combination of both, but I'm hooked. It is peak trash reality television. And if that is your jam, then you probably should be watching this show. You should have fomo.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, yeah. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. And I'm sure we'll get into some of the reasons why this season in particular has been very, very messy. For me at least the sheer amount of episodes was what originally turned me off because I did try to watch the first season of Love Island USA back in 2019 and I tapped out cause I was like I can't keep up with this. But oh man, as I've been watching this for this, I have been hooked. I will admit it. Parker, I am so curious cause I know you have a lot of thoughts on reality TV and reality dating shows. You've talked about it on Code Switch and so what is it about this season and just Love island in general that you are just really, really into?

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I mean it quenches a thirst for messiness that I'm not going to get anywhere else. Like not since like Fboy island have I truly felt like being satiated in my like thirst for mess. I started watching with season six, like a lot of people did episode for Code Switch about the first Asian bachelorette that was happening in 2024 and how seem to have like poor time on these shows. And it felt like season six of Love island was kind of like a solution for that. And then I'm coming into season seven, like maybe not like people of color. It is a very diverse cast. This is like spoiler alert. A huge crop of white people got sent home like last week.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

So like from a diverse standpoint, it feels an appetite. But like the way that cultural relations are handled on there done poorly. So you're just, you're like watching. It's like, I don't know, I feel like having a magnifying glass on a bunch of ants in Fiji is what feels like what's happening right now.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, yeah. That's a great, great descriptor. I was actually quite shocked at how many black women there are on the show because as I've said, I've watched a lot of real life dating and usually there's one or two and then you might have like an ethnically ambiguous person on there, but like two dark skinned women from the begin and who as of this recording are still both there is kind of shocking, wild, unheard of. Shocking to me. Yeah, yeah. So definitely feels like a different type of show. But Shamira, please tell us, what are you taking from this season so far?

[Ba Parker]

One thing that I really get away from the franchise in general is just how different iterations of the franchise really reflect the social realities of each locale. Right. Like when I first got into uk, I was so enamored by how much of it was Consumed in the idea of self concept. Right. Like how you want to present yourself, how British coded, kind of levels of hierarchy make it very clear when someone is trying to be posh but is actually a roadman or actually from Essex or, you know, all these things that aren't explicitly clear to me. As a non Brit, I found it fascinating to, like, actually watch Tease out on a trashy reality show. You know, I'm more Bachelor in paradise, not Bachelor. Traditional recipe. It's perfect for me.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Right.

[Ba Parker]

Coming to the U.S. i think that racial switch that we've all been alluding to becomes much more explicit. Right. In all the years of Love island, they've always been a multicultural cast, but there has been an increasing kind of perception that if you're a black cast member on Love Island Original Recipe, you have no shot. It's basically a humiliation ritual for you. They'll just throw up people who pretend to be interested in you. But there's no bombshell that's actually looking for you. Right. You are always a consummation prize. In the US that's very much different. Right. It still sticks to the precepts of racial hierarchy and romance fantasy. But we're allowed to look at black women as desirable on the show.

[Aisha Harris]

Right.

[Ba Parker]

And I think season six led to an explosion in that respect because we got to see a black love story and people were hoping to see that again this season. And I think results have been mixed at best.

[Aisha Harris]

Ooh, Ace.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Boo.

[Aisha Harris]

Boo.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Shall we boo?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. Okay, well, let's talk about that.

[Ba Parker]

I would just like to note that I did not dial my black kings.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

It was not me. Oh, my goodness.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. I mean, we won't go through every single couple, but I feel like two of the biggest couples that have caused the most drama have been Shelly and Ace. And then there's the love triangle you have. Originally it was Taylor and Alandria, and now you have Taylor and Clark. And these are all black people who have. Some of them have been, at times, linked up with other people. But it's just so interesting to me because, oh, man. Ace is a menace.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Yes.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

He's 22.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Terrible.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I gotta remember he's 22.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Get him out of here. Get him out of here.

[Aisha Harris]

Parker. Yeah, okay, fine. He's 22. But, like, it's so interesting to me to watch Ace and the way he's moved throughout this entire season. He's like the pretty boy. He's the one that in the very early parts of the season, all the women seem to be drawn to him. And I Found it interesting because, like, he is, as they've called him, a short king. Although he's not that. I think he's like, he says he's five, ten.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

That's a lie.

[Aisha Harris]

He's not.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

That's a lie. That's a lie.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I mean, he is 5, 10.

[Ba Parker]

Cap, as journalists, we have an ethical responsibility.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Thank you.

[Ba Parker]

To reasonable assumptions of the truth. Aisha, thank you.

[Aisha Harris]

Thank you. I said, he says, I don't think.

[Ba Parker]

He'S even five' ten with tibs on.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

No, absolutely not.

[Aisha Harris]

He is the type of guy who, I look at him and I'm like, oh, you are. You are trouble. You have your name tattooed in large letters on the back of your body. And on top of that, his whole thing with Huda, Huda, Kuda, Shoulda, and Jeremiah. And this is what I found really fascinating and what I always find really fascinating about these reality shows is the way there's the racial component, but then there's also just like this. If it's a straight show or a show where the couples are ostensibly going to be hetero pairings, is that like, there's all this masculine, feminine, old school way of looking at things?

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Yes.

[Aisha Harris]

And the way Ace was so upset with Jeremiah for linking up with Huda so quickly and was trying to do this whole bro code, like, it was very, very strange. I was like, first you're saying Jeremiah did it too quickly, but, like, at some point you're supposed to link up with people. What do we think of that whole dynamic? I need to hear how people perceived that. Cause I thought it was just out of control.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I mean, it's also why there's been like a dissatisfaction with this season is because there's been such a delay in, like, real established couples. Because there was this kind of jealousy and manipulation, frankly, of, like, getting rid of the competition. No one ever talks about this. $100,000 at the end, like, the rule is one person in the couple gets the money and can decide whether to keep it all to themselves or split it in half. So essentially you have a bunch of, like half naked people performing the Stanford Prison experiment on each other for after taxes. Hopefully 30k.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

So it doesn't make sense, but yeah, like, Ace needed to, like, focus on his own home and not, like, worry about what Jeremiah's beautiful self was doing.

[Aisha Harris]

Right?

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Yeah, I think that that was an example of poor production. We know that a lot of these shows are highly produced. We know that the producers are involved or at least we can surmise that from any of our past Interactions with reality television, even if we do not have that on a factual basis. And to me, letting Jeremiah leave when you had something like this brewing between Ace and Jeremiah was a mistake in production for me. And you also tilted the whole slant of the show to be towards doing things the right way. When Love island in the season that I've seen before is about doing things the wrong way. It's about doing things.

[Ba Parker]

Yes.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

It's about that. And so for him to even introduce the term love bombing, which is being inaccurately depicted in this show, which I think is a very serious accusation, and the ways in which he's speaking to people, calling himself a leader, calling out his height, going at people, saying that he did it right, all of that and it feels completely unchecked is wild. What is the opposition to Ace? That's what you should have put in the house or left the house, in my opinion.

[Ba Parker]

My thought about this is I think it's connected to two things. One is the gamification of reality TV that Ace has kind of come out of. Right. By that, I mean that Ace is someone as a personality who was clearly gonna end up on reality TV one way or the other. This is a man who prior to this was going viral on TikTok for teaching Pakistani people dances. Right. Like, you can look it up. It's viral everywhere, right? Yes.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay.

[Ba Parker]

Literally giving instructions on how to do like common TikTok trends. Right. I'm unclear if that's what he means by he has a dance company, by the way. Neither here nor there. If you think about how he approaches the game, though, it's very much reminiscent of like real world road rules challenge. It's very reminiscent of Big Brother logic. Very reminiscent of even Survivor.

[Aisha Harris]

Right.

[Ba Parker]

I have to establish fealty to me. I have to start to create camps. We all vote in coalition. These are common tactics in gamesmanship. The thing about Love island, though, is that it's supposed to sell a veneer of a fantasy. Do we know that we're in late stage capitalism, reality tv, and that most people are trying to get their followings for brand deals and most of these couples don't actually succeed to the point that the few very successful ones become huge icons. Yes. Right. That said, I think that in that kind of nuance scene of how to work my self concept into this image, they've forgotten to abandon that. You're supposed to pretend to actually want to get to know people, Right. You're supposed to pretend to actually like people.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Yes.

[Ba Parker]

Part of me also wonders, by the way, if it's in part a generational thing. Right. I hate to do a lot of. I look at young people online, and therefore it is representative of a whole generation. But there is something to the fact that there seems to be a repudiation of the idea of hookup culture. Right. And I think that kind of manifests in, like, how a show like Love island, which essentially thrives off of hookup culture, like, can be realized. Right. If there's arguments over whether it's irresponsible to be casual with dating and going around and searching and whether or not that's responsible or healthy, and it's the same people who are voting, that level of self awareness or self consciousness that comes into those choices you make and how casual or cavalier you may have been about it, say, five years ago versus now for the same voting audience is going to shift a little bit as well.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I did see, like, there was, like, a tweet. There's, like, a large portion of the people on this island right now were Covid teens in lockdown.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

And now they're on the island.

[Ba Parker]

Exactly.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

That explains a lot.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

It does explain a lot. Like, there are certain views of women that feel regressive, that, you know, comparatively to last year, where the women were, like, they were the ones that, like, elevated the show. You had Leah, Serena and Janae, this coalition of women who kind of, like, elevated the show. And, like, right now there's, like, there's a shining light who is, like, Amaya, who is this, you know, sweet, you know, Dominican nurse. And you can see, like, once it was revealed that, like, she was, like, beloved by audiences, men started to clamor towards her like she was the prize, which is icky because you could see, like, the money rolling in their brains. I was like, oh, no.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. Well, I mean, that is something. Another point I wanted to get to, which is this idea of, like, America becoming a character in this entire. This entire season, because once that aspect of it is introduced to the show, it becomes more than just, okay, trying to attach yourself and maybe presumably trying to find love, but also trying to endear yourself to the American public who is voting. And I found it so fascinating the way that, like, that especially kind of broke up the Jeremiah Huda situation and the fact that everyone in the show started saying, well, don't you realize this is the sign that America sees something you don't about your relationship? And I'm just like, the peer pressure and the level of just having a devil on your shoulder and an angel on the other. But it's mostly just the devil who's talking to you and how quickly people can change, all of a sudden switch up. And again, this is both the contestants and America in air quotes. But it's just fascinating to me how the scales can shift and tilt so quickly and how the producers kind of respond to that. In a way, I find it very fascinating the way the outside world doesn't really trickle into this show in any, like, obvious ways, other than people getting kicked off specifically about the way they're not really addressing political issues. I'm thinking about how Ciara, who we've already mentioned, left the show due to a quote, unquote personal situation, which the producers have not said straight out. This is why. But apparently we found out that there were Instagram posts on social media where she had used a racial slur. The same thing happened with Yolissa, who also left the villa and like, after the first or second episode, cast the name. Yeah, I mean, clips of her on a podcast, no less. Like a public thing of Ulyssa using the N word. And so she left. So the way this works is the narrator, Ian Sterling, kind of comes in and he just says, ciara left for a personal situation. Just skates by it. And how does that affect your viewing of the show? When we know all the politics are happening and the audience is responding to these politics and pulling out these things from social media. And clearly it's affecting the show, but the show refuses to address it.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

I feel like the impact of the world and outside of the house, outside of the villa, on the villa, I think that's the best of reality television is to acknowledge that there is a world happening out there and it's affecting the world here. And when it comes to them making mistakes and getting kicked off, I don't know if they're handling it great. If it's something that's going to impact Love island. Like, I. E. Nick is now single and we have to deal with that. But obviously he's sad. Obviously there was probably a tearful departure. And you put none of that into the show.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Cause Alandria's right there.

[Ba Parker]

So you're a nickelandreous fan, not the Nicole conspiracies already.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

We had to have one stand out of the four of us.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

No, I will say, like the social media aspect of the show that creates that level of dramatic irony where the audience is more informed than the participants, I find interesting. But what happens is, like my TikTok for you page is giving me all of this nickelandria, which is for Nick and Alandria, who are two separate cast members who are. Were in separate couples and had really nothing to do with each other. But certain factions of American Beauty and audience were like, we want them together.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, don't forget that Nick kissed Alandria.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

In the blindfold test.

[Aisha Harris]

In the blindfold early on.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I'm aware of.

[Aisha Harris]

Is clearly attracted to her. Yes.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

But like we also have like this side story that like audiences can create for themselves, which healthy or not, who's to say it's like when you watch baseball and you're not really there for like the play by play, you're there for like the overarching narrative that is happening along the way. And so that I find interesting.

[Ba Parker]

I do find that the insertion of America as kind of the proxy for the fourth wall is compelling and also just reflective of our current time. Right now you have streamers who say stuff like chat, how do you feel about this? And they're getting real life feedback. This is an accelerated version of that. Right. It's even accelerated version of the existing model with like something like reality tv as most of us are housewives, connoisseurs. You know, a season when you watch someone who thinks they're gonna be the champion of the season and don't realize until the reunion or until it's playing in full that the audience is just actually not receptive to the plot that they marked out for themselves. Right. And to watch people's brains break in real time, while a little masochistic, I would argue is genuinely engaging. Like watching Ace slowly have to make his way down to the end because he was so convinced he was the most liked, viewed as the most genuine, only to find out he's actually near or at the bottom every single time, is what I think is the magic that makes reality tv. Like how do you see yourself? How do we see you? What is the gap in between all of that? I think the problem comes where audiences get a little bit too self aware as well. Right. So like as the contestants are getting self aware, so are we. So people are looking for authenticity and a highly curated experience. That's how someone like Amaya becomes popular.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

It allows for like the audience to. To feel like they have participated in their enrichment.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, exactly.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Which is a double edged sword though. Cause then they feel overly invested. And that's when you have racist threats to Shelley and Elandria that they don't know about. Cause they're in a villa.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, that was another thing I wanted to bring up, which was the way that this show handles the harassment from the outside, the social media world that is being delivered upon the cast members. And like in the middle of one episode, they cut to a commercial or they end it and there's a whole, whole silent worded message. It's like Love Island. We love our fans, but also we don't love you harassing. So they're very explicit. They're like acknowledging the outside world in that way. But then when a cast member leaves because they may or may not have said something racist, or they leave maybe because they said something racist, they don't address that. And I think it's both not surprising because reality TV rarely, ever, you always have to go to, like, the subtext or like you for that kind of stuff. The racism never actually fully appears in the way that I think, you know, we'd like them to show themselves or like, gets addressed in the way that we'd like them to show themselves. It's very rarely like Real World Season 1 in New York. Like, we rarely have those kind of conversations on the street.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Have like a full blown comet blow. Let's talk about it.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, that's not what's happening. And I think the closest the show has come to sort of acknowledging something along that lines is with Amaya and the way that Ace got really upset at her for calling him Babe, even though we all know she calls him every single person Babe.

[Ba Parker]

Right. I usually make up a nickname for.

[Aisha Harris]

Them, like my own personal nickname or Babe.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Even.

[Aisha Harris]

Even Babe is like a lot for me too. And I notice you like to say that a lot.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Oh, my God.

[Ba Parker]

So you coming to south calling you Babe.

[Aisha Harris]

Damn, if she calls you Babe, that probably doesn't mean anything. But he was like, I'm putting up my boundaries. But then Brian shows up as one of the bombshells. Later on, it gets brought up again and Brian's like, this is a cultural difference. Like, this is the way, like Dominican people speak. And so you need to give her grace. And I thought that was like the closest it came to sort of acknowledging these cultural differences in a very explicit way. And I thought Brian handled it well. And I was also very.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

That's how he got into a new couple with Amaya. Cause I know for her.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

But isn't Brian older than, like. I imagine he's not 22. Cause I think part of somebody mentioned that Ace is 22 years old. And when you put it through that lens, everything that he's saying. Cause I'm thinking about what I said at 22. And at 22, I thought I knew it. I was a senior in college. I'm like, I know everything. I'm smarter than the people that are doing the thing out there. There's only a little bit more I need to learn, and I'm gonna be on top of the world. If you would've given me a million followers on Instagram and a national platform, I might be behaving the same way that he is in a lot of ways.

[Ba Parker]

Yeah. I think for better or worse, it's a reflection of how people engage on the Internet today. I find the conversations that do touch on what we're talking about to exist just coded. Right. Like you mentioned about how Alondria backed off. There was also a separate incident where, you know, Huda, like, admits that she crashed out. And then, you know, Alondra is like, well, I would never do that. Right. And the subtext there is that she's not allowed to do that. Right. You know, or even when, like, Shelly and Alondra are in, like, circular conversations around girls. Girls. It really sounds asinine because, one, you're on reality television, but what they're really trying to say is that there's a black girl called on how to represent each other on television, that they have a social contract on that the other woman. Right. And are trying to meet and not equivalent to. Right. Or making an equivalence on. I think you see that a lot, right?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a good point, because I did also notice the way all of the black women move in this season. Even when, you know, Alondra and Clark, who are in the middle of this triangle with Taylor, who. I don't understand the attraction to him, but whatever. That is my thing.

[Ba Parker]

There's one TikTok of him strolling as an alpha that people have clung onto.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

For seven days or something like that.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Makes sense.

[Aisha Harris]

Of course. He was an Alpha.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

That's trash. I thought Sigma.

[Aisha Harris]

I was actually thinking Sigma, too. But. Yeah, but like, even the way that Clark and Alandria really handle themselves is that, like, on a different show, they might be going at it all the time, and there could be cat fights and whatever. And instead, they're just, like. They acknowledge each other, but I think they're very aware that they do not want. Well, one, they're like, yes, we're competing for this man's affections, but we don't want that to, like, like, be the main thing. And then also, I think they are aware of what it would look like if two black women start going at each other. Like, they're very respectful. Anytime they acknowledge each other, especially two.

[Ba Parker]

Black women with different shades, that also comes into conversation.

[Aisha Harris]

Exactly.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

I just appreciate that we can watch a show with this many black people that I can root against some of the black people, because typically, like, there's one black person, I'd be like, even if they're a jerk, I'm like, I'm rooting for the black person because there's only one. I don't know what to tell you. Whereas now I'm like, oh, I can openly, actively hate both Ace and Taylor because there's plenty of other black folks to root for.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Yeah, it's like, I want Taylor out of my villain.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ba Parker]

Listen, Jeremiah, got a book club going on. You know, I'm a joy. The brother's out here reading Jeremiah. I'm shamelessly rooting for Brian and Amaya for no other reason other than the Bronx Dominican parade is coming up. And if they need to return to that reception in New York, baby, I will be up there.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Huda and Chris. All day, baby. Hudda and Chris.

[Aisha Harris]

Huda and Chris.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

Sorry. Interesting.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

I don't like anyone else.

[Shamira Ibrahim]

Huda ain't getting my hundred thousand dollars. She ain't getting my.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Let her have it.

[Aisha Harris]

Parker, who are you rooting for, if anyone?

[Shamira Ibrahim]

I mean, I'm rooting for Brian and Amaya.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, we want to know what you think about Love island, who you're rooting for, who you're sad left. Find [e-mail]. that brings us to the end of our show. B.A. parker, Ronald Young Jr. Shamira Ibrahim. Where are my pancakes, y'?

[Ba Parker]

All?

[Aisha Harris]

Where are they? It's okay.

[Ba Parker]

I'll get. I got them for you.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Tomorrow you are dumped from the island.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, thank you for being here, even without the pancakes. Thank you. Also, sharp left turn here. This Sunday in our podcast feed, we're going to have another monthly bonus bonus episode for our pop culture Happy hour. Plus, supporters, instead of being on the island of love, Stephen and I are going to be talking about the movies that landed at the bottom of our Pixar poll, which included a film that received zero votes. Zero, zilch, nada. No one voted for it. Poor movie. We have thoughts on thoughts on thoughts about that. And you can sign up for Pop culture happy hour [e-mail] happy and we'll also have a link to that in our episode description. This episode was produced by Mike Katzeff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Engineering was performed by Neal Rauch and hello. Kamin provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next time.

[Ba Parker]

At Planet Money.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

We know that economic jargon can sometimes feel like speaking another language.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, like arbitrage, alpha, otarchy.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

That's just what's in the news these days. There's also absolute advantage, aggregate demand, aggregate supply.

[Aisha Harris]

And this is just the A's.

[Ronald Young Jr.]

Oh, animal spirits.

[Aisha Harris]

That's a pretty good one. Planet Money from npr. We help you translate the economy so you can understand the world wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, it's Ian from How to Do Everything. On our show, we attempt to answer your how to questions. We don't know how to do anything, so we call experts. Last season, both Tom Hannah Hanks and Martha Stewart stopped by to help. Our next season is launching in just a few months, so get us your questions now by emailing howtopr.org or calling 1-800-424-2935.