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- [00:00]
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Ayesha Harris
Can Timothee Chalamet play a supremely annoying character and still keep us interested from beginning to end? That is the question. In the new movie Marty supreme, he stars as a working class heel aiming to become a table tennis champion in the 1950s.
- [00:36]
Linda Holmes
It's a head rush that bucks many of the typical sports movie tropes and features an eclectic supporting cast that includes Gwyneth Paltrow and Tyler, the creator. I'm Linda Holmes.
- [00:47]
Ayesha Harris
And I'm Ayesha Harris. Joining us today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is podcast producer and film and culture critic Cate Young. Welcome back, Kate. Hi.
- [00:56]
Cate Young
I'm really excited for this one.
- [00:57]
Ayesha Harris
Yes, I am supremely excited to talk about this with you all. So Marty supreme stars Timothee Chalamet as Marty Mallory, a brat, a scoundrel, a hustler, and an aspiring world champion in table tennis. He's very loosely based on real life champion Marty Reisman. It's 1952 and Marty's stuck working in his uncle's shoe store so that he can save up to compete in London. He eventually gets there, but this movie is less about the game of table tennis than it is about naked ambition and American male hubris. Marty will do pretty much anything to get what he wants, including Rob and Steel. And pretty much no one in his orbit is safe. Not his best friend Wally, played by Tyler Acoma, AKA Tyler the creator, or his married girlfriend Rachel, played by Odessa Azayan. Even a poor, helpless dog is endangered because of him. That part really, really got to me during this movie when Levoltrow appears as Kay Stone, a glamorous former movie star turned socialite who becomes entangled in some of Marty's shenanigans. The film is directed and co written by Josh Safdie, who also co directed and co wrote Uncut Gems, and Marty supreme is in theaters on Christmas Day. Linda, I'm going to start with you. How do we feel about Marty Supreme?
- [02:10]
Linda Holmes
Well, there are things that I like very much about this movie. I think this Timothee Chalamet performance is very, very good. I like him in this mode. I'm more interested in him in this mode than in some of the poetic heroes kind of stuff that he's been doing, whether he's playing Bob Dylan or Willy Wonka. Obviously, it's a Josh Safdie movie, so it's not surprising that there's kind of an an and a restlessness to this performance that I think is very effective. I think he is mesmerizing to watch in this, which is an accomplishment because I'm not sure I care that much about this story. As you mentioned in the intro, Aisha, it's not really about table tennis. You think from the description, you're gonna get kind of a plucky underdog, and you get kind of a bad person.
- [02:55]
Ayesha Harris
You get the opposite.
- [02:57]
Linda Holmes
I'm not sure I would have been able to stay engaged in this with the exception of his performance, which I think is really incredibly watchable. And I'm sure we'll talk a bunch of the other things in terms of the production. They decided to score this, like, it's a. I kept thinking, like, if it's 1984 and you're making an action movie starring Wayne Gretzky, it's what the score of that movie would sound like. And it's very clearly intentional. It's based on all that kind of stuff. You keep expecting, like, Kenny Loggins to have a song on the soundtrack, but I think Chalamet is great. Can't take anything away from that. Not sure about the whole movie.
- [03:34]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah, that soundtrack. I will say the Safdie brothers, regardless of what you think about their filmmaking and the subjects that they tend to cover, I feel like they are very, very good at putting together a very clutch soundtrack, and this is no exception here. Kate, I asked this question at the beginning. Can Timothee Chalamet get away with being such an unlikable character in this movie? And I'm curious, how did your mileage vary with this?
- [04:00]
Cate Young
I mean, I've seen this movie twice, and the first time, I came away from it thinking, like, this is the best thing I've seen in ages. It's the only thing that can even, like, touch Sinner's hand. This year, I had a really good time, and then I watched Uncle Gems again, and then I watched the movie again, and I thought, it's a really good movie. It's an excellent performance. This is genuinely the first time that I, like, get why people won't stop talking about Timothee Chalamet. Because I personally find him to be kind of, like, middling is, like, it's too unkind a word, but, like, he's fine. But I think in this film, I understand what it is that he's talking about when he says that, you know, he really aspires to greatness. I think this is a performance that is very, very, very well considered, very clearly studied, very intentional, and it is a facet of his range that I hadn't seen before. And I was extremely impressed. And I'm happy to say that, you know, as many times as needs to be said. But I think overall for this movie, well, I think it's excellently made and an extremely fun watch. It's also the kind of movie that I think when I start to think of it at, like, a meta level, it's like, of all the words that we have used so far to describe this character, like, the only one that I think really applies is the one that only comes up, like, once in the movie, which is that he's a narcissist. There is not a single person or character that he comes into contact with in this film that is not made worse by his presence. And I think that if we can't acknowledge that, like, we. We are being asked to sympathize with the worst person in the world, then we're, like, missing half the movie.
- [05:30]
Ayesha Harris
Mm, yes. Yes. That's interesting. Okay, so there are a lot of words that I would call him, but I can't say on npr, unfortunately, and that I thought of while I was watching this movie. And I completely agree with you both. I think this is the first sports movie I've ever watched where I'm actively rooting against the main character. I was like, oh, my goodness, I don't want him to win. Like, no, I don't want this to happen. And I think for some, that might be a sign that this movie is doing too much and is asking us, to some extent, sympathize with the character. But I actually kind of think that I like the fact that I was rooting against him. And I'm not sure that the movie is necessarily asking us to sympathize with him. Is it just that he's the main character? And so by virtue of being the main character, we're going to. No matter what, we're kind of gonna be on his side. Or is this movie trying to do something a little different? And I do think that the fact that we see what happens to everyone around him, I don't see how anyone watching this could not feel as though, like, the whole time this guy is awful. Like, I don't like him. I'm rooting against him.
- [06:38]
Cate Young
When I say sympathize, I don't mean, like, that we are specifically on his side or that we agree with Everything that he says. I mean, more to the sense that, like. I mean, we're put in a situation where there is, like, international implications to his particular br. And I still felt like, oh, I need to see this outcome, right? And to me, that comes down to that performance, right? Like, we're put in a position where we essentially kind of, like, buy into his whole thing, right? And it takes you away with it. And I think that is really, really effective filmmaking because it forces me to then have to, like, stand outside of myself and be like, wait, you just got got. Like, you fully got got by this movie.
- [07:14]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah. Linda, did you have a similar experience? Because I was still rooting against him to the very end of this movie. Maybe it's just me. I don't know.
- [07:21]
Linda Holmes
Maybe you should y. Rooting against him. You know, I think what I find fascinating about this as a sports movie. I mean, it's a sports movie, certainly, but in some ways, not really. And I think one of the things that this story does is it takes his desire to win a championship, right? In this case, a table tennis championship, and it just makes that the goal. And it doesn't really ever ask the question, is this goal reasonable? Is this goal worthwhile? It just says, this is the goal, and he will do anything. And so in some ways, it's a very clean presentation of the question, is ambition for ambition's sake, Right? This is what I want. This is what I want to accomplish, and I will do anything. How do you feel? You know, is there any part of you that admires that? Do you hate that? Because a lot of times people translate that kind of ambition or that kind of desire in a traditional sports movie through the idea of work and perhaps suffering and training and dedication. Here it becomes harm to other people. The harm that he does to his girlfriend, certainly the harm that he does to his friend. The harm that he does to Gwyneth Paltrow, the harm that he's willing to do to. To just about everyone. You know, you talked about naked ambition. At what point is that bare desire to get what you want? Not necessarily the same thing as somebody who is willing to work for what they want. And because it's not that he isn't willing to work on his table tennis, because he is. But that's not really what you're watching him do in the film. I do think the film has some structural issues. You know, it is two and a half hours long. Do I think there's two and a half hours of story here? Probably not. And I don't mean that to say, by definition, this is too long. Period. I mean, there are places in it where I think there are some significant pacing issues. There are parts of it that I think drag on way too long. You mentioned the dog, Aisha. I think some of that stuff is just. You could do a lot more with not very much. And I understand it's all building up to this very dramatic conclusion. But I felt like that stuff dragged. I felt like it got a little repetitive. I didn't feel like they needed all the pieces of it necessarily. So there are things that I have doubts about other than just who he is and what the movie is really saying about him. Because obviously, you know, a filmmaker uses cinematic language to signal, you know, who this character is in the story. And I think this creates an interesting tension between that filmmaking skill that Josh Safdie has.
- [10:15]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah.
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Linda Holmes
Which is also, like, you know, when you're very invested in what's going to happen to Adam Sandler at the end of Uncut Gems, it's kind of the same thing.
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Cate Young
Right.
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Linda Holmes
Also, like, why do I care about this? And yet you do, because you're there, because you're in the hands of these filmmakers who are very talented.
- [10:28]
Ayesha Harris
I'm surprised that a movie like this is willing to show moments where. Where, you know, Marty has to be humbled. Like, at one point early on, it's basically like an old Hollywood montage where he's, like, traveling the world with the Harlem Globetrotters. And this is, like, the lowest thing. He's like, I'm too good for this. I'm playing table tennis against a Seal. I am doing, like, those moments, I think. And the fact that his, like, main opponent, he's played by Koto Kawaguchi in the movie, his name is Kodo Endo. The fact that we learn something about that character that makes us question, like, is Marty even actually really good at what he does, or is he really not the best? And I think that question of, you know, is he actually the best? Because in most sports movies, that is not the question. It's just like, this person is clearly the best or is probably one of the best, but is too scrappy. Like, I think of something like Creed or, like, they're really good, but they're scrappy, and they just need to train. And whatever. We see him playing, but we don't actually see him training. We see him trying to market his own special that's a different color. So it makes it easier to see. We see those things. He's a businessman, a not good Businessman, but he's a businessman.
- [11:39]
Linda Holmes
A lot of P.T. barnum.
- [11:40]
Ayesha Harris
Very, very P.T. barnum. And I think that's really kind of what I gravitated towards with this movie for all of the issues that I have. Agree with you on the pacing. Absolutely, Linda. But I really just appreciate that this questions whether or not he's actually good. And it's also a sport that, like most people, at least in America, don't take seriously. So that kind of added layer of complication made this sort of more enjoyable than I would have thought a typical sports movie would. I feel like it's also just worth noting that this is the second Safdie Brothers sports movie this fall. Earlier we had the Smashing Machine, Benny Safdie's movie starring the Rock as a real life MMA fighter. And it's interesting because both of these movies seem to be trying to subvert the way that sports movies and sports biopics typically play out. But I think this one is a little bit more successful at that than the Smashing Machine is.
- [12:33]
Cate Young
It's interesting to me that you said, you know, you think that it questions whether or not he's actually good, because I didn't get that sense at all. To me, it was very clear that he is very good. What is at question to me is whether or not he is as good as he thinks he is. And this is why the movie really comes down to that performance for me, is because this movie only works if you believe that he believes that he is the best things in sliced bread. Because the way that he approaches, not just the way that he seeks to get things out of the people in his orbit, but the way that he talks about himself and his own skill. It is very clear that he thinks that he is just trying to drag the world up to where he is and to finally get with the picture that he is on top of the world. And he's trying to give you the opportunity to get in on the ground floor. His presence is a gift to the people in his orbit, and he really thinks that that's true. There's a scene somewhere, I think probably in the last third of this film where he says to one of the characters, like, I have a purpose and I need you to know now that nothing is going to sway me from that purpose. And, like, I will help you do whatever it is that you need to get done and I will make sure that you're good, but, like, I'm not gonna sit around and, like, be your boyfriend. Like, it's not gonna happen. And it's Such a cruel thing to say to someone, especially in that particular situation. But it's even more absurd when you realize that he's talking about hitting a tiny little ball with a paddle on a table. Like that's his life's purpose.
- [13:50]
Linda Holmes
That's what I mean about whether the ambition itself to him is what's valuable. What makes him special in his mind is not what the end goal is, it's how committed he is to it. I do wanna take a second and acknowledge some of what they did with the supporting cast in this film because I think Gwyneth Paltrow, who's essentially playing an aging movie star who is no longer quite as hot as she once was, but she's considered kind of a great beauty. I don't know that this is a huge stretch for her, but I think she does a good job. I think she's not acting a whole lot anymore. I saw. I think she has some very nice moments in it in the sense that she is kind of immediately on to Marty and who he is, and yet, of course, is gonna get sucked into his life, as so many people do. Also very interesting to me, Josh Thefty cast Fran Drescher as Marty's mother in a straight dramatic part. And I can't remember the last time I saw somebody cast her in a straight dramatic part. And I think she's quite good. It's a small role, but I think she's good. And to me, it's an interesting moment of, like, right, you know, as with everyone, there's a real person under the idea that people have of her from the nanny and from, you know, the beautician and the beast and all that stuff. Like, there's a regular person who has feelings and all that. And I appreciated having that brought out. On the less happy side, I have seen Kevin o' Leary on Shark Tank a lot. I've also seen Kevin o' Leary as a pundit on the news. Basically, he is somebody who acts like a jerk. Like, as his thing, sort of. Yeah, that's sort of his Persona. And he's basically coming in here, you know, playing this very rich businessman, Gwyneth Paltrow's husband, who Marty is trying to get to kind of bankroll all of his efforts and support all of his efforts. And it was not particularly interesting to me to see him come in and very much play the same kind of jerk that he plays as a person. And so I'm not even sure it qualifies as acting. That was not pleasant to me. I found it quite Distracting. I don't know whether people who have not watched a lot of Shark Tank would find it distracting. I found it terribly distracting.
- [16:02]
Ayesha Harris
I mean, I had no idea who he was, to be honest. Like, for some reason, I thought he was some character actor I recognized from 90s family, like, movies. Like, he has that look of, like, the dad who works too much in a 1990s holiday movie. And the kid was like, daddy, be home with me more. That's who I thought he was. And then when I saw he was from Sharktake, I was like, oh, oh, that makes sense. Like, the Safdies kind of have a habit of casting sometimes people playing a version of themselves and they're not actually actors.
- [16:30]
Linda Holmes
But like Kevin Garnett.
- [16:31]
Ayesha Harris
Yes, Kevin Garnett in Unca Gems. Yeah. So that wasn't distracting to me. But I agree, like, he is kind of playing like one note person and there's not much there. I do also think, you know, the Tyler, the creator character, Wally, and also the Odessa Azayan character of his girlfriend Rachel. You know, those are kind of the standard roles we often see in these movies. The black best friends and the girlfriend Slash. Well, she's married in this movie, but they're secretly having an affair, and then it becomes not so secret. And those are both, like, they could be thankless roles. And I think as written, there's not that much there there. But as performed by both of those people, those actors, I think it works. Like, I was invested. I thought Wally and Marty have a good rapport. And, you know, Rachel has her own journey that kind of straddles the line between shrieking girlfriend and kind of manipulative and actually kind of dastardly in some places. And I think that they both kind of rose above it. And I appreciated that sort of just like whirlwind of everything happening and the way this is shot. And it's very frenetic. I think we've mentioned Uncut Gems a few times. I think if you've seen that movie and liked it, then you will probably like this movie. But yeah, there's a lot going on and it's not just table tennis. Well, it sounds like we all at least had an interesting time, an entertaining time at Marty Supreme. So tell us what you think about Marty supreme once you've had a chance.
- [18:03]
Cate Young
To check it out.
- [18:03]
Ayesha Harris
Find us on Facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on Letterboxdetterbox. Up next, what's making us happy this week?
- [18:14]
Sponsor Voice
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- [18:23]
Ayesha Harris
I have kids under 18, so like.
- [18:26]
Linda Holmes
Time is very limited.
- [18:28]
Ayesha Harris
That's why at BetterHelp, our therapists try to have sessions, sometimes at night, depending on the therapist, or during the weekend. So so I think that's what we need to tell the parents. You're not alone. We can help you out.
- [18:39]
Sponsor Voice
If a flexible schedule would help you, visit betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off your first month of online therapy.
- [18:49]
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- [19:03]
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This message comes from NPR sponsor Capella University. Sometimes it takes a different approach to pursue your goals. Capella is an online university accredited by the Higher Learning Commission. That means you can earn your degree from wherever you are and be confident your education is relevant, recognized and respected. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more about earning a relevant degree at Capella. Eduardo this message comes from Babbel. Babbel's conversation based language technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world with lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com NPR spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com NPR rules and restrictions may apply.
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Ayesha Harris
And now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy? Kate, why don't you kick us off?
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Cate Young
Sure. So ever since I was last on the show, I think it was probably like a month or two by now for the new HBO series Welcome to Derry, the IT spinoff TV show. I've been catching up now that my screeners have run out. And what has been really exciting is to see the actress Madeline Stow on the show. She is playing one of the less than trustworthy adults these kids have to interface with. And it was such a delight to see her again because I very, very recently finished rewatching the ABC series Revenge, of which she was a star and played an absolutely wonderful conniving foil to our protagonist, Emily Thorne, played by I forget her name, but Emily Van Camp. That's the one I knew was also an Emily, but I Loved that show when I was on. I still remember it was my senior year of college. I had a great time with it. I love to say that. It's, you know, it's white excellence. It's just two white women going at each other constantly over the worst things, being absolutely miserable to each other, faking murders. It's great. And it's been a nice reminder that like, you know, just because she did this thing 15 years ago doesn't mean that she doesn't have more to give. And I'm really, really glad that more people are getting to see what she can. That is Madeline Stowe in the current HBO series. Welcome to Derry.
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Ayesha Harris
Thank you, Kate. Linda, what is making you happy?
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Linda Holmes
Well, my friend, you know that I read a lot of ebooks, I listen to a lot of audiobooks, but from time to time there is a book that comes out that I want to own in print. Perhaps it's just deeply meaningful to me. Perhaps I want it on my shelf. The most recent book to fall into this category is the new 12th edition of Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. And this is a new edition. It just came out very recently and I got myself a copy. It is a big brick of a book. You know, this is not a book that you can't pick up. It's not that kind of book. But it is a great big book with little tiny print. And so sometimes when I am sitting around I just pick it up and I open it and I look at it until I find a word that I do not know and have never heard before and have no idea what it is. And for example, the other day I opened it up and learned the word femtosecond which is F, E, M, T O S, E, C, C O N D. And a femtosecond is 1/3th of a second. Now did you need to know this for your day to day life? Maybe not. Now some people do need to know this because they work in the kinds of sciences where this kind of thing is important. But even if you don't, you pick up the dictionary, you flip around a little bit and, and you find a new word that you don't know. And then all of a sudden you have a new word and you can use it whenever you want and you can say things like, I would not spend one femtosecond voluntarily watching Kevin o' Leary on Shark Tank and yet I watched him in Mari Supreme. You never know what's going to come in handy. So what is making me happy is the new 12th edition of Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Thank you very much.
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Ayesha Harris
Thank you, Linda. That might be one of our most NPR nerdiest happies we've had in a min.
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Linda Holmes
I embrace it. I embrace it.
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Ayesha Harris
I love it. I love it. Well, what's making me happy this week is also probably equally NPR nerdy. So look, I can take it as much as I dish it. Linda. It is the Tale of Sillian, directed by Tamara Kotevska, and it's about a Macedonian family, a farming family that's been hit pretty hard by the country's economic instability, and basically they're unable to sell their crops. And so so when the family decides to relocate somewhere else, attempt to have a better life, but the patriarch decides he wants to stay at the farm. He refuses to leave the farm behind, and so he winds up alone. He has a friend. But then he develops this special bond with an injured stork he happens upon while working in a landfill. And it turns into this really beautiful, lovely story about a man and a stork and what he goes through to try to help it get better and the comfort the stork brings him in the absence of his family. He's still, you know, doing video chats with his family, but, like, there's also a little bit of backstory about their history, and it weaves in a Macedonian folktale. And I was surprised by how moved I was by this. I went into it not knowing anything about it. And it's also so beautifully shot by cinematographer and producer Jeanne Dakar. So that is the Tale of Cillian. It's in select theaters now and will be streaming on Disney and Hulu in January. And that is what's making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter@npr.org popculturenewsletter that brings us to the end of our show. Kate Young, Linda Holmes, thanks so much for being here. This was so fun.
- [25:06]
Cate Young
Thank you.
- [25:06]
Linda Holmes
Thank you, my friend.
- [25:07]
Ayesha Harris
And this episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Kayla Latimore, Mike Katseve, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Kids provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Ayesha Harris. We'll see you all next time.
- [25:24]
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